Guild Wars 2

Narcarsis.5739:

I have offered to help people, improve the game, and raise the skill cap. The issue is that people aren’t willing to improve, very few people took me up on my offer.

I also never said the game was bad. It’s a great game, and far more dynamic than the general population realizes. But when people get stomped in games they leave, reducing the amount of players in the queue. Eventually it gets to a point where people either fight the same players, or stomp new players forcing them to quit. When there are only 2 good teams matchmaking will force them to play each other over and over again until one gets bored and quits (this is how matchmaking works, they will climb higher and higher and no one will be able to catch up). While new players will slowly start to get better and be in a good environment the competitive/advanced players will slowly leave the game due to lack of competition. From there you either get lucky and find the newer players surpassing the older generation, or they will become capped and the cycle continues. The game needs multiple teams are able to compete at a higher level, so that it causes the meta to form (it won’t happen when it’s just 2 teams) and evolve. Issue with that is that there aren’t enough good players at the moment to form these teams. It’s critical for the game’s health and needs to be assessed.

And what is the reason why there’re not tons of good teams ?

Do you really believe it’s why people are bad ?

WRONG

You would be astounished to find out how many skilled players are playing WvW, or simply are sticking to free tournys.

For example, i may consider me a skilled player, but i NEVER really wanted to pay this PvP seriously, because

1. No incentives

I never felt the need to do the jump from frees to paids. QPs are a ridiculous way to measure skill, without rating it’s just a joke.

I don’t even care to find a team, because competition matters very little if nobody can see I AM THE BEST: you may be top in QPs ladder, it says very little about your skill level, and very few people will take you seriously.

2. Balance issues

Too few builds, too few playstyles for class.

This is totally devs fault: they should have split PvE and PvP skills /traits from the beginning, curretnly every class is full of crap weapons/U-skills/ traits it’s not even funny, and they’re taking the wrong route on it with every patch ( the nerf to spirit weapons clearly demonstates it : spirit weapon nerf because the shield is OP in PvE while in PvP they were already bad, now they die with 2 Trick Shot hits and i roflmao).

I was an S/D thief, i hate aNet for what they did to the only real alternative to burst builds in high end PvP, in the attempt to nerf thief burst.

3. The tournament system and its rewards.

We all knew this.

Entrance barriers were too thick, PvP economy was a failure, and current Temple week clearly demonstated it.

it was not fun to lose at first round and lose all your tickets, that’s the reason why people were “less involved” to try paids.

Fix these 3 issues, and you’ll see PvP FLOURISH in this game.

Mrbig.8019:

Narcarsis.5739:

I have offered to help people, improve the game, and raise the skill cap. The issue is that people aren’t willing to improve, very few people took me up on my offer.

I also never said the game was bad. It’s a great game, and far more dynamic than the general population realizes. But when people get stomped in games they leave, reducing the amount of players in the queue. Eventually it gets to a point where people either fight the same players, or stomp new players forcing them to quit. When there are only 2 good teams matchmaking will force them to play each other over and over again until one gets bored and quits (this is how matchmaking works, they will climb higher and higher and no one will be able to catch up). While new players will slowly start to get better and be in a good environment the competitive/advanced players will slowly leave the game due to lack of competition. From there you either get lucky and find the newer players surpassing the older generation, or they will become capped and the cycle continues. The game needs multiple teams are able to compete at a higher level, so that it causes the meta to form (it won’t happen when it’s just 2 teams) and evolve. Issue with that is that there aren’t enough good players at the moment to form these teams. It’s critical for the game’s health and needs to be assessed.

And what is the reason why there’re not tons of good teams ?

Do you really believe it’s why people are bad ?

WRONG

You would be astounished to find out how many skilled players are playing WvW, or simply are sticking to free tournys.

For example, i may consider me a skilled player, but i NEVER really wanted to pay this PvP seriously, because

1. No incentives

I never felt the need to do the jump from frees to paids. QPs are a ridiculous way to measure skill, without rating it’s just a joke.

I don’t even care to find a team, because competition matters very little if nobody can see I AM THE BEST: you may be top in QPs ladder, it says very little about your skill level, and very few people will take you seriously.

2. Balance issues

Too few builds, too few playstyles for class.

This is totally devs fault: they should have split PvE and PvP skills /traits from the beginning, curretnly every class is full of crap weapons/U-skills/ traits it’s not even funny, and they’re taking the wrong route on it with every patch ( the nerf to spirit weapons clearly demonstates it : spirit weapon nerf because the shield is OP in PvE while in PvP they were already bad, now they die with 2 Trick Shot hits and i roflmao).

I was an S/D thief, i hate aNet for what they did to the only real alternative to burst builds in high end PvP, in the attempt to nerf thief burst.

3. The tournament system and its rewards.

We all knew this.

Entrance barriers were too thick, PvP economy was a failure, and current Temple week clearly demonstated it.

it was not fun to lose at first round and lose all your tickets, that’s the reason why people were “less involved” to try paids.

Fix these 3 issues, and you’ll see PvP FLOURISH in this game.

The only thing I agree with you about is the reward and its entry barrier. By far the dumbest thing Anet has ever done.

But to bring up your other point about, there is no way of showing you are the best;

That is the reason people don’t play. What im saying is, everyone wants to be the best, but if they realize they are not and keep losing in paid tourneys, they stop queing or dont play anymore. If you were the best, trust me you will still be queing or have a team that still wants to play. People have no way of showing that they aren’t as bad as they think they are because they keep losing to the top teams. They know there is no way of catching up in QP’s so everyone despises it. They almost want this matchmaking as leverage to say “oh guys im top 10” when really you are not even that good. But it still gives more people a reason to play so it needs to be done. Not custom arenas. Whats the point of having custom arenas when there is no one to even play.

lilz shorty.1879:

Mrbig.8019:

Narcarsis.5739:

I have offered to help people, improve the game, and raise the skill cap. The issue is that people aren’t willing to improve, very few people took me up on my offer.

I also never said the game was bad. It’s a great game, and far more dynamic than the general population realizes. But when people get stomped in games they leave, reducing the amount of players in the queue. Eventually it gets to a point where people either fight the same players, or stomp new players forcing them to quit. When there are only 2 good teams matchmaking will force them to play each other over and over again until one gets bored and quits (this is how matchmaking works, they will climb higher and higher and no one will be able to catch up). While new players will slowly start to get better and be in a good environment the competitive/advanced players will slowly leave the game due to lack of competition. From there you either get lucky and find the newer players surpassing the older generation, or they will become capped and the cycle continues. The game needs multiple teams are able to compete at a higher level, so that it causes the meta to form (it won’t happen when it’s just 2 teams) and evolve. Issue with that is that there aren’t enough good players at the moment to form these teams. It’s critical for the game’s health and needs to be assessed.

And what is the reason why there’re not tons of good teams ?

Do you really believe it’s why people are bad ?

WRONG

You would be astounished to find out how many skilled players are playing WvW, or simply are sticking to free tournys.

For example, i may consider me a skilled player, but i NEVER really wanted to pay this PvP seriously, because

1. No incentives

I never felt the need to do the jump from frees to paids. QPs are a ridiculous way to measure skill, without rating it’s just a joke.

I don’t even care to find a team, because competition matters very little if nobody can see I AM THE BEST: you may be top in QPs ladder, it says very little about your skill level, and very few people will take you seriously.

2. Balance issues

Too few builds, too few playstyles for class.

This is totally devs fault: they should have split PvE and PvP skills /traits from the beginning, curretnly every class is full of crap weapons/U-skills/ traits it’s not even funny, and they’re taking the wrong route on it with every patch ( the nerf to spirit weapons clearly demonstates it : spirit weapon nerf because the shield is OP in PvE while in PvP they were already bad, now they die with 2 Trick Shot hits and i roflmao).

I was an S/D thief, i hate aNet for what they did to the only real alternative to burst builds in high end PvP, in the attempt to nerf thief burst.

3. The tournament system and its rewards.

We all knew this.

Entrance barriers were too thick, PvP economy was a failure, and current Temple week clearly demonstated it.

it was not fun to lose at first round and lose all your tickets, that’s the reason why people were “less involved” to try paids.

Fix these 3 issues, and you’ll see PvP FLOURISH in this game.

The only thing I agree with you about is the reward and its entry barrier. By far the dumbest thing Anet has ever done.

But to bring up your other point about, there is no way of showing you are the best;

That is the reason people don’t play. What im saying is, everyone wants to be the best, but if they realize they are not and keep losing in paid tourneys, they stop queing or dont play anymore. If you were the best, trust me you will still be queing or have a team that still wants to play. People have no way of showing that they aren’t as bad as they think they are because they keep losing to the top teams. They know there is no way of catching up in QP’s so everyone despises it. They almost want this matchmaking as leverage to say “oh guys im top 10” when really you are not even that good. But it still gives more people a reason to play so it needs to be done. Not custom arenas. Whats the point of having custom arenas when there is no one to even play.

And that’s what i was saying.

Matchmaking will bring people to play.

Noobs won’t be stomped like they’re being stomped now because they’ll play togheter, and players’ skill will also slowly improve.

Top teams will just have to wait a bit, and they’ll have more competition.

Mrbig.8019:

Narcarsis.5739:

I have offered to help people, improve the game, and raise the skill cap. The issue is that people aren’t willing to improve, very few people took me up on my offer.

I also never said the game was bad. It’s a great game, and far more dynamic than the general population realizes. But when people get stomped in games they leave, reducing the amount of players in the queue. Eventually it gets to a point where people either fight the same players, or stomp new players forcing them to quit. When there are only 2 good teams matchmaking will force them to play each other over and over again until one gets bored and quits (this is how matchmaking works, they will climb higher and higher and no one will be able to catch up). While new players will slowly start to get better and be in a good environment the competitive/advanced players will slowly leave the game due to lack of competition. From there you either get lucky and find the newer players surpassing the older generation, or they will become capped and the cycle continues. The game needs multiple teams are able to compete at a higher level, so that it causes the meta to form (it won’t happen when it’s just 2 teams) and evolve. Issue with that is that there aren’t enough good players at the moment to form these teams. It’s critical for the game’s health and needs to be assessed.

And what is the reason why there’re not tons of good teams ?

Do you really believe it’s why people are bad ?

WRONG

You would be astounished to find out how many skilled players are playing WvW, or simply are sticking to free tournys.

For example, i may consider me a skilled player, but i NEVER really wanted to pay this PvP seriously, because

1. No incentives

I never felt the need to do the jump from frees to paids. QPs are a ridiculous way to measure skill, without rating it’s just a joke.

I don’t even care to find a team, because competition matters very little if nobody can see I AM THE BEST: you may be top in QPs ladder, it says very little about your skill level, and very few people will take you seriously.

2. Balance issues

Too few builds, too few playstyles for class.

This is totally devs fault: they should have split PvE and PvP skills /traits from the beginning, curretnly every class is full of crap weapons/U-skills/ traits it’s not even funny, and they’re taking the wrong route on it with every patch ( the nerf to spirit weapons clearly demonstates it : spirit weapon nerf because the shield is OP in PvE while in PvP they were already bad, now they die with 2 Trick Shot hits and i roflmao).

I was an S/D thief, i hate aNet for what they did to the only real alternative to burst builds in high end PvP, in the attempt to nerf thief burst.

3. The tournament system and its rewards.

We all knew this.

Entrance barriers were too thick, PvP economy was a failure, and current Temple week clearly demonstated it.

it was not fun to lose at first round and lose all your tickets, that’s the reason why people were “less involved” to try paids.

Fix these 3 issues, and you’ll see PvP FLOURISH in this game.

You ignored what I said and came up with your own misconceived notion relating to the topic without addressing anything that I mentioned. Your arrogance is showing rather clearly now.

Mrbig.8019:

Narcarsis.5739:

Mrbig.8019:

You’ll surely have a brilliant carreer, you have a great feel for it.

I already do, but continue to assume things about people over the internet. I’m sure it makes your feel better about yourself ^^

I’m happy you’re having a brilliant career, but don’t assume facts about what other people will or won’t do.

All this “QQing” about the lack of competition, no incentives and stuffs simply drives away people from taking the PvP in this game seriously, or even believing it will get any more serious than it is now ( because this game currently has tons of e-sport potentials, as long as they tune builds/proffs and find a decent way to get competition right).

If people keep on talking about " how bad, how bla, how bleh, how crap " this game is, people will slowly start to believe it that way, even if it isn’t true.

This thing, in psychology, is called self-fulfilling phropecy , and you would be ASTOUNISHED knowing how strong this effect is in reality.

Basically, rants like this only damage the game image in consumers’ eyes, and damage people like you who are supposed to want to have good players around them in order to form a team.

Follidus is right, and you’re wrong.

If you want to find a team, and have skilled people around to play with, create a thread with constructive criticism in it to find out WHY there are no skilled PvPers in this game, WHY there are no incentives, WHY there’s no real competition, and try to find a solution for it.

Hopefully aNet will take a look, listen to you, and we’ll all be happy.

But what you’re actually doing is simply the act of a kid who’s crying because he doesn’t have friends to play with.

sorry but it’s anets job to figure out why nobody is playing their game not ours. we put in our time and feedback during beta and we are coming up on a year now since bwe1 and they havent added one thing people have been asking for.

in beta people ask for better browser, ranking system, match making, more game modes, spectator mode, voice chat, etc. basic systems that any pvp game worth a crap should have and we still have nothing. then they say over and over game won’t be released until its ready and we get what? the same exact crap we had in beta nothing else and still nothing else but a 1v1 mode that’s still in testing with no matchmaking. whoop de kittenin doo

Narcarsis.5739:

You ignored what I said and came up with your own misconceived notion relating to the topic without addressing anything that I mentioned. Your arrogance is showing rather clearly now.

I guess it’s your fault for not understanding what i said, because all the answers you need are there in my post, but i will take the time to answer to all your points, and make them clearer.

But when people get stomped in games they leave, reducing the amount of players in the queue. Eventually it gets to a point where people either fight the same players, or stomp new players forcing them to quit. When there are only 2 good teams matchmaking will force them to play each other over and over again until one gets bored and quits (this is how matchmaking works, they will climb higher and higher and no one will be able to catch up). While new players will slowly start to get better and be in a good environment the competitive/advanced players will slowly leave the game due to lack of competition. From there you either get lucky and find the newer players surpassing the older generation, or they will become capped and the cycle continues

Wrong.

This won’t happen with matchmaking.

Let’s think for a moment that “entrance barrier” are fixed and devs increase “viable builds” to at least 4 per class ( like current guardian), mathcmaking is the only variable.

People won’t be stomped, because they’ll face teams on their skill level.
they’ll learn from their fights, and slowly become better.

Of course “current” top teams will have to wait, because their skill level is capped, but the playerbase will not shrink, due to the fact they’re not being stomped anymore.

Among 100 low skill team, 40 will become “average” after quite some time.

Among those 40, 15 will become “high skill” after quite some time.

Among those 15, 5 will become “skill capped” and compete with old “top teams”.

Now you have 5 more teams to play against: if devs find a way to bring people into PvP and give them enough incentives to stay, there’s no reason why there won’t be every month at least 100 new teams.

if we estimate that " quite some time" into something like 3 weeks, in 2 months you have 5 more top teams to play against.

Those are just built up numbers, but you got the idea, even more since current “average” and “high skill” teams will take a lot less time , with mathcmaking, to become “skill capped”.

You have to wait if you want good competition: without players playing, obviously there will be few top teams fighting agasint each other tons of times till they get bored.

You have to wait for new players to become better, and without matchmaking, this is quite impossible, especially when they face teams EXTREMELY more experienced than them whose stomp them 500-1.

To bring new players into PvP you need good rewards, thin entrance barrier and a satisfacing balance to start with: none of those is achieved, that’s why PvP is failing.

And that’s why most faults are to be given to aNet horrible decisions instead of QQing about players lack of skill.

With the new flow of players into paids thanks to Temple week, i give 2 months of mathcmaking and you’ll fight AT LEAST against 10 more good teams.

Narc has tried to help people a lot actually. I love when average players try to take on the top tier players on forums instead of in game where he would destroy you.

What you average folk (including myself) need to understand is that there is a reason these guys are better than you, they see issues that you guys can’t. Most are ex-WoW gladiators and understand game mechanics, not skills. Stop trying to troll clearly better players that have an understanding of what is actually wrong with this game.

Stop trying to get “face” via words on a forum vs a well respected player in GW2.

I’m new to this game and I have played a lot of MMOs before and PvP’d a lot over 100k+ kills in WoW, 100’s of arena matches.

I’m finding the lack of dueling 1v1 really hurting me trying to learn how to play my class vs other classes since in most games its just zergs and getting plowed by a group of people doesn’t teach very much.

PVP is dead because of ANET focusing on making a PVE game.

Not because an elitist thinks that everyone sucks.

It must be so hard spending so much time being that good at 1 game mode, when the rest of the world doesnt give 2 kittens to even play the game, lol

It’s kinda like being 1st place in a game of solitaire.

Galli pm me later for duels/info

Divinity.8041:

Narc has tried to help people a lot actually. I love when average players try to take on the top tier players on forums instead of in game where he would destroy you.

What you average folk (including myself) need to understand is that there is a reason these guys are better than you, they see issues that you guys can’t. Most are ex-WoW gladiators and understand game mechanics, not skills. Stop trying to troll clearly better players that have an understanding of what is actually wrong with this game.

Stop trying to get “face” via words on a forum vs a well respected player in GW2.

Your 1/2 right, they figured out the kittenty game mechanics and how to effectivly win at the “1” game mode in the game.

There will always be mega nerds that have no life and can spend countless hours playing and being better, no one is arguing that.

But to blame the players for ANET not delivering what they promised before the launch of the game….or course people are going to call this guy a tool and flame him all to hell.

Fix the game and the players will follow, or dont fix the game and the players will leave.

Such a high percentage of people who complain are hot join players.

Honestly, hot joins are a bad experience. Taking frees to 1 team vs 1 team, would make such a difference.
Here is why. In league, or in dota 2 people PLAY THE GAME.
IN tournies people play the game, in hotjoins people just run around ganking. Joining for 5 mins into the middle of a match, and leaving before its done. With 16 ppl in there making it way zergy.

Somehow people have got to get engaged in a match. I know if i was a newb and ran into 6 mesmers everyday just zerg fighting id get frustrated too. Even if high level players know how to deal with it. ( and the do but still bad experience for new players)>

Weapon X.5163:

Divinity.8041:

Narc has tried to help people a lot actually. I love when average players try to take on the top tier players on forums instead of in game where he would destroy you.

What you average folk (including myself) need to understand is that there is a reason these guys are better than you, they see issues that you guys can’t. Most are ex-WoW gladiators and understand game mechanics, not skills. Stop trying to troll clearly better players that have an understanding of what is actually wrong with this game.

Stop trying to get “face” via words on a forum vs a well respected player in GW2.

Your 1/2 right, they figured out the kittenty game mechanics and how to effectivly win at the “1” game mode in the game.

There will always be mega nerds that have no life and can spend countless hours playing and being better, no one is arguing that.

But to blame the players for ANET not delivering what they promised before the launch of the game….or course people are going to call this guy a tool and flame him all to hell.

Fix the game and the players will follow, or dont fix the game and the players will leave.

in fact i’m not questioning Narc skill ( indeed he may be one of top thieves in the game), the point is that being skilled doesn’t mean he’s grasping the reasons why PvP is failing.

Game sucess = marketing

Marketing =/= skill

The reason why there are only 2 teams fighting over and over ( no competition) is because people leave PvP and don’t come back due to being stomped by better teams 500 -1

This is solved by matchmaking.

But this would still keep those 2 teams on top fighting each other; partially.

Infact those players who will stay, slowly will become better due to matchmaking, and surely they won’t leave, because their mathces are played evenly.

Slowly teams will get the skill cap, and fight evenly against those 2 teams whose were “top”.

But soon the competition will stale again, as soon as all teams reach their skill cap ( be it low, average, high or very high).

How can we fix this ?

With incentives ( rewards), good balance ( no instagibs, no endless bunkering) in order to make the game fun for THE MOST and more game modes, in order to let player STAY around the PvP world ( because it’s easier for a player playing a different PvP mode to get into competitive instead of a PvE player).

Again, this is about marketing, and has nothing to do with Narc skill level, which is not denied.

Mrbig.8019:

Narcarsis.5739:

I have offered to help people, improve the game, and raise the skill cap. The issue is that people aren’t willing to improve, very few people took me up on my offer.

I also never said the game was bad. It’s a great game, and far more dynamic than the general population realizes. But when people get stomped in games they leave, reducing the amount of players in the queue. Eventually it gets to a point where people either fight the same players, or stomp new players forcing them to quit. When there are only 2 good teams matchmaking will force them to play each other over and over again until one gets bored and quits (this is how matchmaking works, they will climb higher and higher and no one will be able to catch up). While new players will slowly start to get better and be in a good environment the competitive/advanced players will slowly leave the game due to lack of competition. From there you either get lucky and find the newer players surpassing the older generation, or they will become capped and the cycle continues. The game needs multiple teams are able to compete at a higher level, so that it causes the meta to form (it won’t happen when it’s just 2 teams) and evolve. Issue with that is that there aren’t enough good players at the moment to form these teams. It’s critical for the game’s health and needs to be assessed.

And what is the reason why there’re not tons of good teams ?

Do you really believe it’s why people are bad ?

WRONG

You would be astounished to find out how many skilled players are playing WvW, or simply are sticking to free tournys.

For example, i may consider me a skilled player, but i NEVER really wanted to pay this PvP seriously, because

1. No incentives

I never felt the need to do the jump from frees to paids. QPs are a ridiculous way to measure skill, without rating it’s just a joke.

I don’t even care to find a team, because competition matters very little if nobody can see I AM THE BEST: you may be top in QPs ladder, it says very little about your skill level, and very few people will take you seriously.

2. Balance issues

Too few builds, too few playstyles for class.

This is totally devs fault: they should have split PvE and PvP skills /traits from the beginning, curretnly every class is full of crap weapons/U-skills/ traits it’s not even funny, and they’re taking the wrong route on it with every patch ( the nerf to spirit weapons clearly demonstates it : spirit weapon nerf because the shield is OP in PvE while in PvP they were already bad, now they die with 2 Trick Shot hits and i roflmao).

I was an S/D thief, i hate aNet for what they did to the only real alternative to burst builds in high end PvP, in the attempt to nerf thief burst.

3. The tournament system and its rewards.

We all knew this.

Entrance barriers were too thick, PvP economy was a failure, and current Temple week clearly demonstated it.

it was not fun to lose at first round and lose all your tickets, that’s the reason why people were “less involved” to try paids.

Fix these 3 issues, and you’ll see PvP FLOURISH in this game.

ty for saying this. it’s what i’ve been saying. all this game needs is incentive and it will take off so fast.

just look at league of legends. the only thing fueling those players to be the best is the fact that they have a very hard to obtain rating, their K/Ds are shown to anyone who looks, and there is a million dollar prize pool every year.

gw2 has none of that hence no one cares to be the best. i’m a very serious pvper, and i love gw2 pvp. but if it doesnt get more serious.. i’d rather just play league of legends..

and to those of you who think it’s already serious… you’re a joke lol.

Narcarsis.5739:

Galli pm me later for duels/info

Really? Lets duel? How old are you? So Wolverine hasnt got the right to have an opinion, even if he is wrong? We go straight to genocide? I can borrow you my Legos, ive grown up and dont need them anymore… Its easy to finish useless threads, specially when i know how to do it, and i usually detest this kind of attitudes. Ur responses to Biggie were already bad enough, but this “duel me” thing, its just halarious, you have just proven his “elitist” point…

Eduardo.4675:

Narcarsis.5739:

Galli pm me later for duels/info

Really? Lets duel? How old are you? So Wolverine hasnt got the right to have an opinion, even if he is wrong? We go straight to genocide? I can borrow you my Legos, ive grown up and dont need them anymore… Its easy to finish useless threads, specially when i know how to do it, and i usually detest this kind of attitudes. Ur responses to Biggie were already bad enough, but this “duel me” thing, its just halarious, you have just proven his “elitist” point…

tbh the guy was asking for advice >_>

Mrbig.8019:

Eduardo.4675:

Narcarsis.5739:

Galli pm me later for duels/info

Really? Lets duel? How old are you? So Wolverine hasnt got the right to have an opinion, even if he is wrong? We go straight to genocide? I can borrow you my Legos, ive grown up and dont need them anymore… Its easy to finish useless threads, specially when i know how to do it, and i usually detest this kind of attitudes. Ur responses to Biggie were already bad enough, but this “duel me” thing, its just halarious, you have just proven his “elitist” point…

tbh the guy was asking for advice >_>

OMG, ure right!! His answer came after weapon x post, i thought it was directed at him!! LOL, im sorry, it was a misunderstanding! What a tool!

Eduardo.4675:

Narcarsis.5739:

Galli pm me later for duels/info

Really? Lets duel? How old are you? So Wolverine hasnt got the right to have an opinion, even if he is wrong? We go straight to genocide? I can borrow you my Legos, ive grown up and dont need them anymore… Its easy to finish useless threads, specially when i know how to do it, and i usually detest this kind of attitudes. Ur responses to Biggie were already bad enough, but this “duel me” thing, its just halarious, you have just proven his “elitist” point…

he was asking for help :P

I know that already, ive apologized…

There is no competition because there is no population. Since there is no population, there is a lack of good players. The 8-team tourney system ruined PvP for this game because it made players PAY for competitive PvP.
The only way to cure this is to get more people into PvP, and Anet has been doing a subpar job of creating features that would entice players to PvP and stay PvPing.

The new 1 v 1 system has done wonders in the short time it’s been in effect. Meow we need to see more from Anet and more from the devs. We need to see matchmaking and solo queing. We need to see other game modes than conquest. We need to see a hell of a lot more or the competitive players are going to get tired of running the same game mode vs the same players over and over, me included.

In WoW, only 3-4% of the PvP population are gladiators… but 3-4% of however million is a lot. 5% of 5,000 isn’t much at all.

Davinci.8027:

There is no competition because there is no population. Since there is no population, there is a lack of good players. The 8-team tourney system ruined PvP for this game because it made players PAY for competitive PvP.
The only way to cure this is to get more people into PvP, and Anet has been doing a subpar job of creating features that would entice players to PvP and stay PvPing.

The new 1 v 1 system has done wonders in the short time it’s been in effect. Meow we need to see more from Anet and more from the devs. We need to see matchmaking and solo queing. We need to see other game modes than conquest. We need to see a hell of a lot more or the competitive players are going to get tired of running the same game mode vs the same players over and over, me included.

In WoW, only 3-4% of the PvP population are gladiators… but 3-4% of however million is a lot. 5% of 5,000 isn’t much at all.

Those are exactly my points.

And i’m seeing threads about the argument to pop everywhere in the last period, symptom that maybe the playerbase started to understand what is the flaw in this system.

What amazes me still till this day is that, you would think they would take the good aspects of their first game and apply it to this or make it better. I know Anet says this is a different game, but don’t give me that lol. You take the good things from other games and make it better but don’t all your great pvp aspects and make it better? Especially when your last game was really a pvp game. I think they got to focused on making an esport pvp game they forgot about everything else. That is almost like saying Blizzard makes a WoW2 and does not offer end game raiding etc….

Even with that said, we have waited 6 months for something. Ratings/new mode/better reward system. All we have gotten is a map and paid tournaments(which were working in beta anyway). Adding fractals takes more time then building a matchmaking system to the game. I know that there is only a small pvp team but get some help if it is gonna take this long or at least inform us as to why. 6 months for nothing? I mean wtf.

daydream.2938:

Such a high percentage of people who complain are hot join players.

Honestly, hot joins are a bad experience. Taking frees to 1 team vs 1 team, would make such a difference.
Here is why. In league, or in dota 2 people PLAY THE GAME.
IN tournies people play the game, in hotjoins people just run around ganking. Joining for 5 mins into the middle of a match, and leaving before its done. With 16 ppl in there making it way zergy.

Somehow people have got to get engaged in a match. I know if i was a newb and ran into 6 mesmers everyday just zerg fighting id get frustrated too. Even if high level players know how to deal with it. ( and the do but still bad experience for new players)>

hot join is the only option though for many. would you rather hotjoin or lose 5v4 or to a premade in free?

Eduardo.4675:

I know that already, ive apologized…

lol, i’m glad you got my back though…. :-)

Sprawl.3891:

daydream.2938:

Such a high percentage of people who complain are hot join players.

Honestly, hot joins are a bad experience. Taking frees to 1 team vs 1 team, would make such a difference.
Here is why. In league, or in dota 2 people PLAY THE GAME.
IN tournies people play the game, in hotjoins people just run around ganking. Joining for 5 mins into the middle of a match, and leaving before its done. With 16 ppl in there making it way zergy.

Somehow people have got to get engaged in a match. I know if i was a newb and ran into 6 mesmers everyday just zerg fighting id get frustrated too. Even if high level players know how to deal with it. ( and the do but still bad experience for new players)>

hot join is the only option though for many. would you rather hotjoin or lose 5v4 or to a premade in free?

They shouldve never even made hotjoins and just had solo que for frees. Therefore leaving the teams to do paids.

A lot of the top players that are understanding of how the casual experience effects the longevity of a game have long since left the game. They know the game has a weak foundation and is years off from building this up. At least another year to implement all the features that are lacking, then a number of years to slowly bring players back and build up hype again.

They are missing:
More game modes
Proper rewards
Matchmaking/ladder
Profession balance (animation tuning/scaling the learning curve/increasing number of viable builds/changing mechanics that aren’t fun)
Observer mode
Hype (Prize Tournaments, changing pvp to ftp, expansions etc.)

Definitely not a list that can be accomplished in a short order with limited resources. For the mean time this creates a large disconnect between the current competitive players and those not truly committing to the game yet.

You learn faster from better players.
Matchmaking is meh. Given the chance to sort myself among like-skilled people or the ability to match up with anyone, I’’ll choose anyone. Enjoying myself is more important than some nonsensical rank, and part of the fun is getting better and being able to see your evolution from “I couldn’t beat him” to “I can beat him”. I play “just for fun” (this isn’t a future paycheck for me) and if I had to face like-skilled people all the time I would get bored.

New maps, a new mode, some cooler rewards, stuff to do with my glory, some nice gem store skins, being able to transmute my pve armor to pvp. That’s what matters to me. More ways to play, changing things up, rocking the aesthetics.
If you play casually, semi-casually or with a bit of dedication, pvp isn’t dead, you’ll enjoy yourself. If you stick to one area, or require a specific amount of dedication, than it may be for you.

Sprawl.3891:

daydream.2938:

Such a high percentage of people who complain are hot join players.

Honestly, hot joins are a bad experience. Taking frees to 1 team vs 1 team, would make such a difference.
Here is why. In league, or in dota 2 people PLAY THE GAME.
IN tournies people play the game, in hotjoins people just run around ganking. Joining for 5 mins into the middle of a match, and leaving before its done. With 16 ppl in there making it way zergy.

Somehow people have got to get engaged in a match. I know if i was a newb and ran into 6 mesmers everyday just zerg fighting id get frustrated too. Even if high level players know how to deal with it. ( and the do but still bad experience for new players)>

hot join is the only option though for many. would you rather hotjoin or lose 5v4 or to a premade in free?

1vs 1 free tournies with match making. Sure youd get quitters, but that happens in LOl as well. As long as for the most part your on relatively even ground and winning your fair share, then its ok.

You learn faster from better players.

Yes and no.

The top players sit at the top, and give nothing back. I don’t blame them for that, why is it there responsibility to teach less skilled players?

But given the current state of the game, it might behoove them to take it upon themselves to educate the community, invite people to group with them and teach others how to be better at the game (besides cheese, swapping characters mid match is stupid and shows a lack of character). I only ever see top players with other top players, furthering the divide.

Back to what I quoted.

There are three basic learning styles, Auditory, Visual, and Kinesthetic (tactile). I guarantee that out of those getting stomped by the top teams, only a very small percentage is actually learning from the experience, because it fits in with their learning style.

Do I expect the top players to do this? Of course not. But I think it would help alleviate some frustrations.

Hammerheart.1426:

You learn faster from better players.

Yes and no.

The top players sit at the top, and give nothing back. I don’t blame them for that, why is it there responsibility to teach less skilled players?

But given the current state of the game, it might behoove them to take it upon themselves to educate the community, invite people to group with them and teach others how to be better at the game (besides cheese, swapping characters mid match is stupid and shows a lack of character). I only ever see top players with other top players, furthering the divide.

Back to what I quoted.

There are three basic learning styles, Auditory, Visual, and Kinesthetic (tactile). I guarantee that out of those getting stomped by the top teams, only a very small percentage is actually learning from the experience, because it fits in with their learning style.

Do I expect the top players to do this? Of course not. But I think it would help alleviate some frustrations.

Some of them do. Gasmask takes players with him, and zoose recently made a good d/d spellbook video (youtube it).

Lack of contents… Even with the February/March patch. Pvp still remain the same. No different modes in pvp to play beside maybe new maps and capturing points and you can setup a pvp room for friends…

Hammerheart.1426:

You learn faster from better players.

Yes and no.

The top players sit at the top, and give nothing back. I don’t blame them for that, why is it there responsibility to teach less skilled players?

But given the current state of the game, it might behoove them to take it upon themselves to educate the community, invite people to group with them and teach others how to be better at the game (besides cheese, swapping characters mid match is stupid and shows a lack of character). I only ever see top players with other top players, furthering the divide.

Back to what I quoted.

There are three basic learning styles, Auditory, Visual, and Kinesthetic (tactile). I guarantee that out of those getting stomped by the top teams, only a very small percentage is actually learning from the experience, because it fits in with their learning style.

Do I expect the top players to do this? Of course not. But I think it would help alleviate some frustrations.

I have been offering to help players with questions, builds, videos, duels, and pretty much anything that I can do to help them improve – and there are others who are willing to do the same. Take the initiative and ask, don’t assume they won’t help you.

Narcarsis.5739:

People suck at PvP.

Results:
-No fun.
-No incentive.
-No competition.

Matchmaking won’t help when there’s still only 2 good teams in the game.

-The Truth Hurts

Switched.

Sounds like to convenient of a excuse for a game with poor PVP, I know I don’t suck and never have but I can’t stand SPvP for more than a game or two every few days. Sadly the only PVP alternative to capturing nodes constantly is WvWvW which is capturing nodes and sitting around for 20 mins building stuff and grabbing supplies if you’re in a organized guild.

aaron.7850:

Its just not fun.
Only one spvp mode and its not fun.

That about sums up my feelings, it was fine when the game was fresh and new even though there was still a tad bit of dissatisfaction in the game mode. Here we are about half a year later and the only additions we have are core features that should’ve been in at release, some in fact were during the beta. Now players are really bored and unhappy, the die hards are running out of alt interest and there never was much in SPVP since you go straight to being as strong as possible on the character.
Forget a E-sports estimation, I’d give this game another half a year before SPvP even becomes fun again.

I think the best point against this argument is the fact that in almost every big esport ever (all of them, to my knowledge), the West (Europe included) has always, always fallen short to the likes of China and Korea. However, those games were still immensely popular in the West. So, I think we can count this reason out.

That’s not to say the system doesn’t need improvements, though.

Nirc.7692:

I think the best point against this argument is the fact that in almost every big esport ever (all of them, to my knowledge), the West (Europe included) has always, always fallen short to the likes of China and Korea. However, those games were still immensely popular in the West. So, I think we can count this reason out.

That’s not to say the system doesn’t need improvements, though.

Um league of legends, koreas top two teams just fell to a euro team in a recent major IEM tourny.
The #2 rated guild world wide in LOL is euro guild.

But, generally asia takes its competitve video gaming way more seriously. In korea they broadcast top videogamers on tv.

daydream.2938:

Um league of legends, koreas top two teams just fell to a euro team in a recent major IEM tourny.
The #2 rated guild world wide in LOL is euro guild.

But, generally asia takes its competitve video gaming way more seriously. In korea they broadcast top videogamers on tv.

It’s not a regular occurrence. Even the LoL championships were East-dominated.

Lol @ OP. Guild Wars 2 is dying because of PvP? First, a lot of people have been playing tournaments and hot join over the last week. If anything, PvP has been more popular recently.

Second, saying the entire gaming is dying is just hilarious. Plenty of people spend their time doing dungeons or WvW. Try those sometime. In WvW queues are a big problem becuase TOO MANY people want to WvW.

daydream.2938:

In korea they broadcast top videogamers on tv.

Which is pretty lame. Worse than America’s ‘snookie’ type tv broadcast fascinations.

lame or not, it fosters a super competitive pvp enviroment, where more people can become pro gamers. So obviously you get more people commiting to it.

What i wanna know is how they went from GW1 PvP to Gw2 pvp? What the kitten was going through their minds when they made a game called “Guild Wars” and left out GvG… Ha…ect ect…

Random arenas in gw2 would be kittening AMAZING!!!! Now that you aren’t required to ACCIDENTALLY get a monk on your team. Or if you’re a monk you don’t roll a 2nd monk. Just go and kill kitten + people seem to enjoy bunkers in gw2 so they wouldnt be rare.

But NOOO they have 1 game type…

Braxxus.2904:

daydream.2938:

In korea they broadcast top videogamers on tv.

Which is pretty lame. Worse than America’s ‘snookie’ type tv broadcast fascinations.

Lmfao how is this lame? It’s like their sports channel and it’s a nation wide past time to watch. Who are you to judge what’s work for them?

Braxxus.2904:

daydream.2938:

In korea they broadcast top videogamers on tv.

Which is pretty lame. Worse than America’s ‘snookie’ type tv broadcast fascinations.

I like how you laugh over something that’s a “living.” They’re definitely making more than you do.

Just because they’re making money off of “games” doesn’t give you the right simple minded-ly shun a way of living.

Lucifer.3748:

Lmfao how is this lame?

Lets see…

It’s like their sports channel

Yeah… lol

Lucifer.3748:

It’s like their sports

Lucifer.3748:

like sports

Lucifer.3748:

sports

ROFL!

Nier.2478:

I like how you laugh over something that’s a “living.” They’re definitely making more than you do.

Yeah, again relates to reality tv ‘stars’. They make more money than a lot of people that actually contribute to society. Doesn’t mean it’s not laugh worthy. Same thing.

People don’t do structure because GW2 has literally the worst balance of every MMO out right now.

Some people live in denial and force themselves to play it. Other people pursue one of the many other more competitive PvP games.

Braxxus.2904:

daydream.2938:

In korea they broadcast top videogamers on tv.

Which is pretty lame. Worse than America’s ‘snookie’ type tv broadcast fascinations.

America’s most watched television spot is the Superbowl… A bunch of drugged up meatheads giving each other permanent brain injuries while selling obese people food products during the commercial breaks…

I’ll watch a video game over that any day.

Rezz.8019:

It’s dead because all “top” NA players do the following in paid tourneys:
- start the match as mesmer -> drop timewarp -> change class -> have another person in team reroll to mesmer -> drop timewarp -> repeat and have timewarp there for each time fight = lots of qualifier points to show off to other 5-6 teams that still play PvP.

l.o.l boy I never knew that this was done, considering I play with a lot of the top players everyday in the game, I can 100% say that this is false. The game is growing, but at it’s own pace. We all knew this would take time, so calm you lil MLG selves down. There are PLENTY of ppl who want to form a team, you just need to go to the mist and talk. The problem is not with the players, I happen to think there are a handful of decent players

Wreckdum.8367:

Braxxus.2904:

daydream.2938:

In korea they broadcast top videogamers on tv.

Which is pretty lame. Worse than America’s ‘snookie’ type tv broadcast fascinations.

America’s most watched television spot is the Superbowl… A bunch of drugged up meatheads giving each other permanent brain injuries while selling obese people food products during the commercial breaks…

I’ll watch a video game over that any day.

But but…the commercials…!

NevirSayDie.6235:

Wreckdum.8367:

Braxxus.2904:

daydream.2938:

In korea they broadcast top videogamers on tv.

Which is pretty lame. Worse than America’s ‘snookie’ type tv broadcast fascinations.

America’s most watched television spot is the Superbowl… A bunch of drugged up meatheads giving each other permanent brain injuries while selling obese people food products during the commercial breaks…

I’ll watch a video game over that any day.

But but…the commercials…!

lol yeah I watched a 77 commercial compilation afterward.

I watch them for the entertainment value. I don’t think a single thing advertised during that game was something I would use. lol

Narcarsis.5739:

I have offered to help people, improve the game, and raise the skill cap. The issue is that people aren’t willing to improve, very few people took me up on my offer.

I also never said the game was bad. It’s a great game, and far more dynamic than the general population realizes. But when people get stomped in games they leave, reducing the amount of players in the queue. Eventually it gets to a point where people either fight the same players, or stomp new players forcing them to quit. When there are only 2 good teams matchmaking will force them to play each other over and over again until one gets bored and quits (this is how matchmaking works, they will climb higher and higher and no one will be able to catch up). While new players will slowly start to get better and be in a good environment the competitive/advanced players will slowly leave the game due to lack of competition. From there you either get lucky and find the newer players surpassing the older generation, or they will become capped and the cycle continues. The game needs multiple teams are able to compete at a higher level, so that it causes the meta to form (it won’t happen when it’s just 2 teams) and evolve. Issue with that is that there aren’t enough good players at the moment to form these teams. It’s critical for the game’s health and needs to be assessed.

P.S. Self Fulfilling Prophecy is a sociological term.

Well I came to this thread a little late but I am going to comment on this.

I have seen your thread with your builds you gave, they helped me. How can they help me find a team, and decent players? A team to where I can know that they are going to show up. But I guess this thread wasn’t about any of that… it was about how MMR will only make things worse for you and the hardcore players. Gee, how every feature in this game should only effect you hardcore players. I am going to say this slowly mainly because it was already said multiple times. Currently there is no incentive for casual players to want to get better. A ladder can help that. And the teams below the top 2 teams, will only learn from their mistakes, lack of communication, (maybe) not being 100% in-sync with teammates, etc. That’s why its a ladder. The players have to climb it with rating, and with rating the players get better.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Well I came to this thread a little late but I am going to comment on this.

I have seen your thread with your builds you gave, they helped me. How can they help me find a team, and decent players? A team to where I can know that they are going to show up. But I guess this thread wasn’t about any of that… it was about how MMR will only make things worse for you and the hardcore players. Gee, how every feature in this game should only effect you hardcore players. I am going to say this slowly mainly because it was already said multiple times. Currently there is no incentive for casual players to want to get better. A ladder can help that. And the teams below the top 2 teams, will only learn from their mistakes, lack of communication, (maybe) not being 100% in-sync with teammates, etc. That’s why its a ladder. The players have to climb it with rating, and with rating the players get better.

I did not articulate my point, and in hindsight I made this thread at 2am without putting much thought into it. So let me explain what’s on my mind more clearly.

The reason I believe people are not so good at PvP is not because they’re incapable or skill capped. The issue is a lack of players. The problem stems from this; there aren’t enough people to practice against, to grow from, and to improve with. As you said it’s incredibly hard to find a team because there are so few people who have correlating schedules and mindsets. While matchmaking will help the community and possibly bring more players to the game there needs to be an additional effort into garnering a population increase. As I said in an earlier post the casual player base will continue to improve with a matchmaking, and this will benefit the game. But in order to truly grow the game’s PvP as a whole there needs to be more of these competitive players. These are the people who spend time developing strategies, honing their game play, and exploring the options and limits of the game’s mechanics. People that the casual players look to for advice, or structure. Without more of them the game will stagnate and the casual player base will become capped. This is because these people don’t have the same amount of time to pour into the game and explore what it’s capable of, not because they are worse mechanically. It’s the people who live and breathe the game that help it grow, and there needs to be an effort to bring more of these to Guild Wars 2 so that it can take off and develop.

Hope that’s a little more clear.

P.S. Glad to know that forum post helped you. Seems to be lost already.

PvP will grow with time. League of Legends has probably the best system currently for eSports, a fair number of people are truly professional league players, its what they do. It also took LoL a few years to get to that stage (3 years I think?) so we really do need to realize that GW2 won’t become a huge esport with amazing competition right away, they need some time to work.