I'd be good too if I paid for Heart of Thorns
No, it doesn’t bother me, and not all those players are better.
Fire up the Hyperbowl ma, we’re going to town!
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
Would you like some hard cheeze with your sad whine?
Might I ask why you don’t want to buy HoT?
Investing in the game helps it grow and evolve. Elite specs are a big part of that process.
I admit, when HoT was first out I thought I agreed. But I had a second account that was un-upgraded. So I started playing my 2nd account at times, but with knowledge of my first account. I found that a number of the base accounts could beat their HoT counterparts, it came back to understand the upgraded account’s abilities versus the un-upgraded ones. So is Hot an auto-win in my book now, no. Does it have better synergy at times, yes, and therefore skill cap is lowered. Good hunting!
GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU
De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
I think it’s extremely inconsistent with their previous design of having PvP as a completely level playing field, but I’m not sure you have a feasible solution, here.
I think that, ideally, there should be an option to queue up for non-elite spec builds. I don’t think taking away the option to play core vs. HoT would make anyone happy, but I do think an option would be nice. That being said, I’m not sure how that would play during the seasons, so perhaps it could be an unranked option at all times? That way, players with or without HoT can play in both categories.
“Be angry about legendary weapons, sure, but what about the recent drought of content?”
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
I don’t invest in HoT because I already paid money buying this game originally. I don’t want to be pouring more money in this game, especially when I don’t know how much I love this game.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been playing a long time but still, $50 is a lot of money to just throw around for some new skills
GW2 is buy to play with unlimited free trial
Yes. Yes you would be good. Mind you, the expansion also locks all future content behind it, including upcoming temporary content such as LS3.
Is the PvP community big enough to separate it out into non HoT PvPers and HoT PvPers?
Be careful what you ask for
ANet may give it to you.
ANet may give it to you.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been playing a long time but still, $50 is a lot of money to just throw around for some new skills
Kitten, now you make me have to play the role of supporter and I am irritated at some recent changes.
You say you have been playing for a long time, so how long? Take that and divide the number of hours playing by the 50. Now, compare that to any consumable that you use today. Did you get that much value from a single soda? One packet of sugar?
Compare apples to apples..a XBX1 or PS4 game that provides only 8 hours of materials runs 60 dollars.
How many hours of work did the upgrade cost you versus the time you spent in game?
How much would have a game with a sub cost you based on your on GW2 play time?
Food for thought…
GW/PoTBS/WAR/Rift/WAR/GW2/CU
De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
De Mortuis Nil Nisi Bonum.
I don’t invest in HoT because I already paid money buying this game originally. I don’t want to be pouring more money in this game, especially when I don’t know how much I love this game.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been playing a long time but still, $50 is a lot of money to just throw around for some new skills
Fair enough, but I think the problem is with your thought process. You have everything you had before HoT came out, and while from your perspective you view elite specs as pay-to-win, the truth is that you are choosing to not invest in the game as it grows
Moreover, you have even more than you paid for free of charge. New amulets. New and revamped PvP maps. Access to all the WvW changes..
There are lots of still viable builds that use only the original Specializations. But the game has moved on and you don’t want to move with it. There is little that can be done about that.
(edited by Julius Seizure.4985)
Expansions are a staple of MMO’s and in most cases come with increase in character level increase in item level etc. This game is quite different in that you don’t have to grind off an extra 10 levels but in order to keep things fresh there are new specs people can use once they get the expansion. In many cases the elite specs are upgrades over the base profession but the reality is even if they perfectly balanced every elite with the base prof the player with the expansion will still have an advantage over you as they have more options available.
If your not willing to fork out 50 or so dollars for hundreds of hours of entertainment you mustn’t be really interested in the game in which case why does it matter to you how competitive you are in pvp?
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been playing a long time but still, $50 is a lot of money to just throw around for some new skills
Kitten, now you make me have to play the role of supporter and I am irritated at some recent changes.
You say you have been playing for a long time, so how long? Take that and divide the number of hours playing by the 50. Now, compare that to any consumable that you use today. Did you get that much value from a single soda? One packet of sugar?
Compare apples to apples..a XBX1 or PS4 game that provides only 8 hours of materials runs 60 dollars.
How many hours of work did the upgrade cost you versus the time you spent in game?
How much would have a game with a sub cost you based on your on GW2 play time?
Food for thought…
I love your analysis of opportunity cost. However, money is still money. If I don’t have to spend it, I would prefer not too. You’re talking to a broke college student, so legit I barely buy any consumables.
Expansions are a staple of MMO’s and in most cases come with increase in character level increase in item level etc. This game is quite different in that you don’t have to grind off an extra 10 levels but in order to keep things fresh there are new specs people can use once they get the expansion. In many cases the elite specs are upgrades over the base profession but the reality is even if they perfectly balanced every elite with the base prof the player with the expansion will still have an advantage over you as they have more options available.
If your not willing to fork out 50 or so dollars for hundreds of hours of entertainment you mustn’t be really interested in the game in which case why does it matter to you how competitive you are in pvp?
I don’t want to spend hundreds of hours playing this game. You’re completely right though, if I were a die hard GW2 player, that played every day, and was grinding hard for a legendary, buying the expansion would be crucial.
However, I’m not a die hard fan, and when I do play, I like to have the same advantages in PvP as other players.
Why should I be at a disadvantage just because I don’t want to pay $50.
Imagine if GW2 just offered a new weapon called “payforwin Greatsword” and you can pay $20 for this greatsword that is way better than anything this game offers. How would that make you feel?
But with HoT it’s different because ooh, new classes, new maps, yay.
It’s a very good point.
It don’t bother me though, because I’m accustomed to pay 15$ a month for mmorpg, and pay 50$ expansion. Since that’s previously what every mmorpg is doing.
So I actually felt GW2 is a very good deal.
But if you come from a different back ground, you might felt differently. For example if you mostly play MOBA, you’ll felt differently. Or you might have a feeling you can get better worth playing other single player game or different genre of games. Which is valid points.
If your not willing to fork out 50 or so dollars for hundreds of hours of entertainment you mustn’t be really interested in the game in which case why does it matter to you how competitive you are in pvp?
I know that the question is directed to someone else, but I will take a stab at answering it, for myself, anyway…
The expansion would not provide me with hundreds of hours of enjoyment. If it could I would be willing to spend much more than $50. In all likelihood I would get essentially zero hours of enjoyment from HoT content. I spent over a thousand dollars on GW2 in the first year. If HoT could provide even a significant fraction of the enjoyment I got out of the base game I wouldnt flinch at going back to my $100/month budget for the game.
I am interested in the game. I am disinterested in playing HoT.
Doesn’t it bother anyone that you have to PAY for be better?
GW2 (ignoring the gemstore), is still B2P (buy to play) with a trial-mode that is F2P (free to play). To pay for the HoT features/content, if you want them, fits in the B2P model, so it does not bother me and I also do not think that you would become better with that.
If I don’t have to spend it, I would prefer not too. You’re talking to a broke college student, so legit I barely buy any consumables.
I am sorry for you that you are broke. But there are always things in life that are not affordable.
Expansions are a staple of MMO’s and in most cases come with increase in character level increase in item level etc. This game is quite different in that you don’t have to grind off an extra 10 levels but in order to keep things fresh there are new specs people can use once they get the expansion. In many cases the elite specs are upgrades over the base profession but the reality is even if they perfectly balanced every elite with the base prof the player with the expansion will still have an advantage over you as they have more options available.
If your not willing to fork out 50 or so dollars for hundreds of hours of entertainment you mustn’t be really interested in the game in which case why does it matter to you how competitive you are in pvp?
I don’t want to spend hundreds of hours playing this game. You’re completely right though, if I were a die hard GW2 player, that played every day, and was grinding hard for a legendary, buying the expansion would be crucial.
However, I’m not a die hard fan, and when I do play, I like to have the same advantages in PvP as other players.
Why should I be at a disadvantage just because I don’t want to pay $50.
This game costs money to run and new content costs money to make hence the expansion . Do you think people playing other MMOs complain that they can’t compete with expansion owners because of a huge gear and level cap increase? . Fact is nothing in life is free if you don’t wanna buy the expansion fine but lose the sense of entitlement and enjoy the fact that you can play a high quality game for nothing…….
Maybe you should check out some other games you will not find a better monetized MMO ……..
Given there will always be a “best” spec for a profession it would be impossible to perfectly balance it so an non expansion owner can play whatever profession they want and be exactly comparable to an expansion owner by having less choice you will always be at a disadvantage.
I would be fine with pvp matches grouping non expansion owner against non expansion owner but then you would kitten that you gotta wait hours for a match.
WTF? Just buy the kitten expansion if you wanna play the new stuff. Really, what are people think? You get everything for free?
‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong
‘would of been’ —> wrong
I don’t invest in HoT because I already paid money buying this game originally. I don’t want to be pouring more money in this game, especially when I don’t know how much I love this game.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been playing a long time but still, $50 is a lot of money to just throw around for some new skills
Well you got your years worth of entertainment there. Now it’s time to pay some more or just accept that the playing field won’t be even without it. I agree that $50 is a lot of money for some skills.
Much like Call of Duty, and the hundreds of other games that offer DLC’s, console games separate players who have paid for the DLC from accessing new maps, new gear, etc.
Now GW2 needs to either:
1. Disable the Heart of Thorns special builds from PvP
or
2. Separate players who have paid for Heart of Thorns and people who have not.Preferably, PvP adjusts all the armor and weapons so nobody has advantages, GW2 needs to block these special builds, why?
Because it’s simply UNFAIR.Ok I know what you’re thinking, yeah this kid is complaining so what we’ve been hearing this for months, just get better…
Doesn’t it bother anyone that you have to PAY for be better?
1. It’s discouraging playing PvP with the Heart of Thorns build.
2. It makes me feel like I’m not valued as a player.
3. I feel like it ruins the overall competitive spirit of the game.Thoughts?
I feel your pain,i do not know what is story behind not buying HoT,but everyone has its own reasons,and main reason in times like these is not having money.If that is a problem,i can relate,i got it as a gift,and don’t know when i would buy it for myself on my own.
It is little bit stupid in PvP,HoT vs Vanilla,because those new specs are OP.Everyone who is saying they are not op,are those people defending their OP class,because no one is going to say ‘well ofc i play op class,and my class is op’
Doesn’t it bother anyone?Well,you cant judge people because they playing what they paid for.Tell me name of one person,who has Hot,and its not willing to play it in PvP because a lot people don’t have it…
Killing spirit of the game feeling ,it only looks that way because you don’t have HoT.
People saying ‘just buy kitten expansion’…if it was only easy like you think it is.A lot of people got no parents to get money for game from.Not in whole world monthly paycheck is big enough,to buy food,pay rent,buy clothes,shoes,pay electricity,water and garbage bills…For an example ,monthly paycheck in my country is 150 euros,rent cost from 200 euros,food is expensive,you work 12 hours a day,6 days a week,imagine someone with kids,now,for some people this looks funny,because they never felt hunger,but this was reality example of situation in my country.I would like to see you buying game with all these things u need to take care of first.
So,point of post is,you have no right saying to anyone ‘why don’t you just buy game’because as i said,you never know reason behind it.
(edited by Werdx.2059)
Imagine if GW2 just offered a new weapon called “payforwin Greatsword” and you can pay $20 for this greatsword that is way better than anything this game offers. How would that make you feel?
But with HoT it’s different because ooh, new classes, new maps, yay.
To be honest, I didn’t buy HoT for several reasons.
1) Content-wise: I dislike PvE in general so am not interested in the Jungle maps, I also really hate masteries, or what would be a more appropiate name, ‘grind tier’ that lock everything behind grind. On top of that it has been demonstrated that ArenaNet cannot deliver on their promises regarding what would be part of the expansion (legendary weapons). And lastly, I simply think that the price is not justified compared to what this expansion offers.
2) The direction of the game isn’t going the way I would. Too little balance in PvP, too many PvE aspects in WvW. Gem store dishes out new overpriced outfits frequently… seems like a big moneygrabbing practice.
3) The sinking ship theory. Of course right now there’s the WvW beta getting more people to try out WvW, and some changes to other aspects of the game aswell. GW2 is far from a dead game, but many guilds have been totally decimated. Why continue playing when everyone you know quits?
Also small edit: some of the recent changes are really good, but some of the more important underlying issues have still not been looked at.
(edited by Sirendor.1394)
Elite Spec power creep = p2w – Simple.
And 50 bucks is overpriced indeed. I was lucky getting HoT as a gift once.
Personally, i would never have bought HoT in the first place, because i’ve informed myself about its content (cough) beforehand.
I can understand OCs point of view completely.
Elite Spec power creep = p2w – Simple.
And 50 bucks is overpriced indeed. I was lucky getting HoT as a gift once.
Personally, i would never have bought HoT in the first place, because i’ve informed myself about its content (cough) beforehand.
I can understand OCs point of view completely.
Expansions are not pay to win.
That’s like saying the base game was pay to win before HoT came out if you didn’t pay for it you certainly where not gonna win…..
All these people that have an issue with having to purchase an expansion maybe you should not play MMOs’ then?
An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.
An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).
It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.
Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?
(edited by ViperClaw.1590)
I don’t invest in HoT because I already paid money buying this game originally. I don’t want to be pouring more money in this game, especially when I don’t know how much I love this game.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve been playing a long time but still, $50 is a lot of money to just throw around for some new skills
Love these arguments.
Here is what you need to do:
1.) Check your accounts total age (use /age).
2.) Now divide your initial 50$ (or what ever amount you spent) by those hours/days/months spent on this game.
3.) Now do the same with the addition of 50$ more for buying HoT
4.) Compare both values (very likely not more than a couple of cent per hour) to any other leisure activity you are engaging in (movies, going out for dinner, taking a girlfriend/boyfriend out, etc.)
5.) Now cut back on all the other leisure activities by about 20%, and save enough money to buy HoT within 2-3 days.
On topic, yes it is unfortunate that HoT specialisations are not available to non-upgraded accounts. Mostly because that way people can’t see how the builds work and counter them even without access to HoT specialisations.
Fracturing the pvp community (which is barely hanging by a thread as it is) is just about the worst idea possible though.
An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.
An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).
It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.
Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?
Read up on what pay-to-win is. Better yet, go play some actual pay-to-win MMOs on the market. Then come back and appologise for the nonsense you were writing.
A fractured Tale
A little boy goes into a Toystore.
Boy: “Hello sir, I’d like to buy this red ball.”
Toystore Clerk: “Here you go little fella, that’d be 30 bucks.”
The boy pays the clerk and gets the ball. He plays ball with his friends a lot and is happy.
Some time has passed and the little boy still enjoys playing with his ball.
Suddenly the Toystore Guy appears.
T: “Hey little fella. We’re making updates on all our balls.”
B: “Umm. Ok, I guess?”
He hands out the ball to the toystore Guy. The toystore guy changes the color of the ball to green, deflates it a bit and hands it out to the little boy.
T: “Here you go, little fella.”
B: “Why is my ball missing air now?”
T: "Because now you can get the new full inflated Ball of Thorns which is all flashy ‘n stuff. That’d be 40 bucks. We have costs, you know … "
B: “40 bucks is a lot of money for me.”
WhiteKnightDude: “Hey just give him the 40 bucks. You already played hundreds of hours with your ball. Don’t you think it’s worth more? Don’t be a cheap kitten.”
B: “…”
An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.
An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).
It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.
Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?Read up on what pay-to-win is. Better yet, go play some actual pay-to-win MMOs on the market. Then come back and appologise for the nonsense you were writing.
Thank you. But i know the definition of p2w. And Because it’s worse somewhere else is no excuse at all.
That’s like saying: Hey, sorry you have lost your leg. But just imagine you would have lost both. Now just look up the definition of being handicaped and you will apologize for calling yourself handicaped now!
So. I’m standing to my opinion. Calling your statement nonsense. Aaaand we have pretty much a standoff situation. Funny isn’t lt?
(edited by ViperClaw.1590)
A fractured Tale
A little boy goes into a Toystore.
Boy: “Hello sir, I’d like to buy this red ball.”
Toystore Clerk: “Here you go little fella, that’d be 30 bucks.”The boy pays the clerk and gets the ball. He plays ball with his friends a lot and is happy.
Some time has passed and the little boy still enjoys playing with his ball.
Suddenly the Toystore Guy appears.T: “Hey little fella. We’re making updates on all our balls.”
B: “Umm. Ok, I guess?”He hands out the ball to the toystore Guy. The toystore guy changes the color of the ball to green, deflates it a bit and hands it out to the little boy.
T: “Here you go, little fella.”
B: “Why is my ball missing air now?”
T: "Because now you can get the new full inflated Ball of Thorns which is all flashy ‘n stuff. That’d be 40 bucks. We have costs, you know … "
B: “40 bucks is a lot of money for me.”
WhiteKnightDude: “Hey just give him the 40 bucks. You already played hundreds of hours with your ball. Don’t you think it’s worth more? Don’t be a cheap kitten.”
B: “…”
Nice analogy.
Please point me to where the boy has in anyway contributed to the toy store staying in business over the last 3.5 years after his initial purchase. Oh right, the boy was dependant on others keeping the toystore open (in an imaginary world where his ball would have stoped working if the toy store had closed).
Maybe rework that analogy a bit don’t you think?
No, because the toy store said, you can pay once, and play as long as we’re open.
An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.
An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).
It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.
Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?Read up on what pay-to-win is. Better yet, go play some actual pay-to-win MMOs on the market. Then come back and appologise for the nonsense you were writing.
Thank you. But i know the definition of p2w. And Because it’s worse somewhere else is no excuse at all.
That’s like saying Hey, sorry you have lost yourt leg. But just imagine you would have lost both. Now just look up the definition of being handicaped and you will apologize for calling yourself handicaped now!
So. I’m standing to my opinion. Calling your statement nonsense. Aaaand we have pretty much a standoff situation. Funny isn’t lt?
Considering pay-to-win refers to required real cash purchases to stay competative on a recurring basis with no ingame way of circumventing them, I doubt you actually understand what pay-to-win is.
GW2 as most commonly agreed upon is pay-to-skip content or pay-for-convegnience.
So sure, we are at a standoff just like 2 people are at a standoff about what 2+2 is. My answer would be 4, yours is 5.
That’s not even getting into the entire concept of expansions. Now if we got started on that and compared every other MMO on the market and their approach to expansions compared to HoT…
No, because the toy store said, you can pay once, and play as long as we’re open.
Ah, okay. So arenanet eployees now work for free, the game servers will be running infinately without ever needing to get payed for and any Living Story content that gets developed falls out of the sky. Yeah, that works.
Just because you are not paying for something does not mean it’s free or that someone else doesn’t have to cover for you. As is, the expansion and gemstore purchases from other players cover for your continued use of that little ball.
(edited by Cyninja.2954)
An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.
An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).
It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.
Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?Read up on what pay-to-win is. Better yet, go play some actual pay-to-win MMOs on the market. Then come back and appologise for the nonsense you were writing.
Thank you. But i know the definition of p2w. And Because it’s worse somewhere else is no excuse at all.
That’s like saying Hey, sorry you have lost yourt leg. But just imagine you would have lost both. Now just look up the definition of being handicaped and you will apologize for calling yourself handicaped now!
So. I’m standing to my opinion. Calling your statement nonsense. Aaaand we have pretty much a standoff situation. Funny isn’t lt?
Considering pay-to-win refers to required real cash purchases to stay competative on a recurring basis with no ingame way of circumventing them, I doubt you actually understand what pay-to-win is.
GW2 as most commonly agreed upon is pay-to-skip content or pay-for-convegnience.
So sure, we are at a standoff just like 2 people are at a standoff about what 2+2 is. My answer would be 4, yours is 5.
That’s not even getting into the entire concept of expansions. Now if we got started on that and compared every other MMO on the market and their approach to expansions compared to HoT…
Real money – check
to stay competetive – check
Just because you can’t buy single elite specs for real money but in a bundle with an expac doesn’t make it any better.
Argument closed. This becomes ridiculous.
(edited by ViperClaw.1590)
No, because the toy store said, you can pay once, and play as long as we’re open.
Ah, okay. So arenanet eployees now work for free, the game servers will be running infinately without ever needing to get payed for and any Living Story content that gets developed falls out of the sky. Yeah, that works.
They marketed and SOLD it so. Game should pay through gemstore. It’s not the players fault if the business decision didn’t work out exactly as they liked it to be. And they’re making good money with the game. You shouldn’t be have to worry about the company actually.
Just because you can’t buy the elite specs in the gem shop but in a bundle with an expac doesn’t makes it any better.
Ah selective analysis approachs. Sure, if you just ommit part of the situation and just focus on half of the argument you can make just about anything work.
Fact is, the elite specialisations ARE part of an expansion. If they had been added as pure cash grabs, sure you might have had a point. Which brings us full circle to what I was saying about MMO expansions in general. Every other game on the market the playerbase accepts expansions for what they are. Only here do people feel so entitled that they imediately screem nonsense.
No, because the toy store said, you can pay once, and play as long as we’re open.
Ah, okay. So arenanet eployees now work for free, the game servers will be running infinately without ever needing to get payed for and any Living Story content that gets developed falls out of the sky. Yeah, that works.
They marketed and SOLD it so. Game should pay through gemstore. It’s not the players fault if the business decision didn’t work out exactly as they liked it to be. And they’re making good money with the game. You shouldn’t be have to worry about the company actually.
Obviously the business approach got changed due to necessity. Now you not understanding that business plans change when they don’t work is not arenanets problem.
This also does not fix your red ball analogy though. Since you have nothing in there which covers how the store stays in business while the boys ball is constantly a financial drain on the store. Funny enough, we are back to a very selective point of view/approach (just like Viper). Seems to be a recurring theme with people getting upset.
An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.
An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).
It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.
Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?Read up on what pay-to-win is. Better yet, go play some actual pay-to-win MMOs on the market. Then come back and appologise for the nonsense you were writing.
Thank you. But i know the definition of p2w. And Because it’s worse somewhere else is no excuse at all.
That’s like saying Hey, sorry you have lost yourt leg. But just imagine you would have lost both. Now just look up the definition of being handicaped and you will apologize for calling yourself handicaped now!
So. I’m standing to my opinion. Calling your statement nonsense. Aaaand we have pretty much a standoff situation. Funny isn’t lt?
Considering pay-to-win refers to required real cash purchases to stay competative on a recurring basis with no ingame way of circumventing them, I doubt you actually understand what pay-to-win is.
GW2 as most commonly agreed upon is pay-to-skip content or pay-for-convegnience.
So sure, we are at a standoff just like 2 people are at a standoff about what 2+2 is. My answer would be 4, yours is 5.
That’s not even getting into the entire concept of expansions. Now if we got started on that and compared every other MMO on the market and their approach to expansions compared to HoT…
Real money – check
to stay competetive – check
Just because you can’t buy single elite specs for real money but in a bundle with an expac doesn’t make it any better.
Argument closed. This becomes ridiculous.
Just because you say the argument is closed, doesn’t mean it’s actually answered.
Pay to win has a definition and that definition has NEVER included expansions. This is what happens when people try to take something literally that had a definition.
The original definition of pay to win was always buy power through microtransactions.
By your definition every single MMO with an expansion is pay to win, which would make the term meaningless.
The term was created to seperate games like Maplestory from games like WoW.
Tell me, by your definition, can you name an MMO that’s not pay to win?
Ah selective analysis approachs. Sure, if you just ommit part of the situation and just focus on half of the argument you can make just about anything work.
Fact is, the elite specialisations ARE part of an expansion. If they had been added as pure cash grabs, sure you might have had a point. Which brings us full circle to what I was saying about MMO expansions in general. Every other game on the market the playerbase accepts expansions for what they are. Only here do people feel so entitled that they imediately screem nonsense.
It’s not about entitlement. It’s about balancing a game properly. I’ve played MMOs before. I’ve bought expacs before. And i did never, ever liked power creeps. They are a cheap way to make you buy the x-pac. They have brought me to stop playing games very often in the past. And i’m sure i’m not the only one hating power creeps.
New possibilities and builds are fine. Power creeps behind paywalls aren`t. At least for me they aren`t. Maybe you like them. I don’t really care much.
Everything they did was to make the missing build diversity worse. Pay and rule with elite spec meta or lose.
(edited by ViperClaw.1590)
Ah selective analysis approachs. Sure, if you just ommit part of the situation and just focus on half of the argument you can make just about anything work.
Fact is, the elite specialisations ARE part of an expansion. If they had been added as pure cash grabs, sure you might have had a point. Which brings us full circle to what I was saying about MMO expansions in general. Every other game on the market the playerbase accepts expansions for what they are. Only here do people feel so entitled that they imediately screem nonsense.
It’s not about entitlement. It’s about balancing a game properly. I’ve played MMOs before. I’ve bought expacs before. And i did never, ever liked power creeps. They are a cheep way to make you buy the x-pac. They have brought me to stop playing games very often in the past. And i’m sure i’m not the only one hating power creeps.
New possibilities and builds are fine. Power creeps behind paywalls aren`t. At least for me they aren`t. Maybe you like them. I don’t really care much.
Everything they did was to make the missing build diversity worse. Pay and rule with elite spec meta or lose.
Oh I agree, but the issue at hand was not power creep but pay-to-win.
Though even when looking at power creep, it’s been very mild compared to what industry standards are for MMO expansions.
Pay-to-win is a definition in itself. Just because microtransactions are the norm and influenced some of p2ws definitions doesn’t mean that these definitions can’t be added to, or change over time (It’s always happening..).
Just because there was never an expac called p2w could still mean that maybe almost every expac is p2w content, looking at the competetive area of those games.
If you have to pay to stay competetive. If you have to pay real money for a cheap power creep you have to pay to win. Literally.
I know the industry. Maybe better than i want it to know. But the argument about “what is pay to win” is pretty much a waste of time and ressources when the main issue stays unspoken.
That`s why i’ve closed the argument.
I hope this has to be my last answer to that topic.
Peace.
(edited by ViperClaw.1590)
You can compete against elite specs with base classes. Just take a look at your build.
Welcome to my world – http://emikochan13.wordpress.com
Much like Call of Duty, and the hundreds of other games that offer DLC’s, console games separate players who have paid for the DLC from accessing new maps, new gear, etc.
Now GW2 needs to either:
1. Disable the Heart of Thorns special builds from PvP
or
2. Separate players who have paid for Heart of Thorns and people who have not.Preferably, PvP adjusts all the armor and weapons so nobody has advantages, GW2 needs to block these special builds, why?
Because it’s simply UNFAIR.Ok I know what you’re thinking, yeah this kid is complaining so what we’ve been hearing this for months, just get better…
Doesn’t it bother anyone that you have to PAY for be better?
1. It’s discouraging playing PvP with the Heart of Thorns build.
2. It makes me feel like I’m not valued as a player.
3. I feel like it ruins the overall competitive spirit of the game.Thoughts?
I think you could simplify your critique by simply saying that ANet said that elite specializations weren’t supposed to be “better”, just different but in PvP it turns out that they are objectively better. Accordingly, ANet should do something to level the playing field (rebalance skills or segregate players) or at least admit that they realize that elite specs are superior and they are comfortable with that.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Pay-to-win is a definition in itself. Just because microtransactions are the norm and influenced some of p2ws definitions doesn’t mean that these definitions can’t be added to, or change over time (It’s always happening..).
Just because there was never an expac called p2w could still mean that maybe almost every expac is p2w content, looking at the competetive area of those games.
If you have to pay to stay competetive. If you have to pay real money for a cheap power creep you have to pay to win. Literally.
I know the industry. Maybe better than i want it to know. But the argument about “what is pay to win” is pretty much a waste of time and ressources when the main issue stays unspoken.
That`s why i’ve closed the argument.
I hope this has to be my last answer to that topic.
Peace.
I walked down the street and saw three phone booths. The middle one had a sign that said out of order. And I was wondering if it belonged before the first one or after the last one.
What words mean literally isn’t how English or any language works. Words have definitions for reasons. The reason for pay to win was to let people tell the difference between legit and illegit games.
Saying it literally means this in English means nothing. There are many many phrases in English that mean something very different from what they mean when literally interpreted.
And you don’t get to make up definitions just because you think it’s what the words mean.
If every single MMO is pay to win then the term itself becomes meaningless and you’ve corrupted the original definition. I can’t imagine why anyone would want to do that.
GuildWars has always been Buy to Play, just because you can play parts of it for free, does not change the fact that to get the whole game, you still need to Buy it.
Maybe the real mistake was to allow the base game to available for free?
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
An Expansion as a whole isn’t pay to win. – Correct.
An Expansion that comes with a big power creep is, in fact, pay to win, because of this very aspect. Because if you don’t buy, you lose pretty often (in competetive modes that is).
It isn’t that hard to get. Especially if you look at the content additions to sPvP and WvW in total.
Edit: I’m totally fine with paying for Expasions. IF i’m okay with its content-prize value.
You do like to generalize, don`t you?Read up on what pay-to-win is. Better yet, go play some actual pay-to-win MMOs on the market. Then come back and appologise for the nonsense you were writing.
Thank you. But i know the definition of p2w. And Because it’s worse somewhere else is no excuse at all.
That’s like saying Hey, sorry you have lost yourt leg. But just imagine you would have lost both. Now just look up the definition of being handicaped and you will apologize for calling yourself handicaped now!
So. I’m standing to my opinion. Calling your statement nonsense. Aaaand we have pretty much a standoff situation. Funny isn’t lt?
Considering pay-to-win refers to required real cash purchases to stay competative on a recurring basis with no ingame way of circumventing them, I doubt you actually understand what pay-to-win is.
GW2 as most commonly agreed upon is pay-to-skip content or pay-for-convegnience.
So sure, we are at a standoff just like 2 people are at a standoff about what 2+2 is. My answer would be 4, yours is 5.
That’s not even getting into the entire concept of expansions. Now if we got started on that and compared every other MMO on the market and their approach to expansions compared to HoT…
Real money – check
to stay competetive – check
Just because you can’t buy single elite specs for real money but in a bundle with an expac doesn’t make it any better.
Argument closed. This becomes ridiculous.
Pay to win has a definition and that definition has NEVER included expansions. This is what happens when people try to take something literally that had a definition.
The original definition of pay to win was always buy power through microtransactions.
Sorry but that’s just a conceptual discussion at this point. You can circle around changing your definition infinitely if you like, it wont make anyone believe your definition is right and someone else’s isn’t.
P2W clear and simple is you pay for something with real money, which grants you more chance to win in a competitive PvP game (P2W does not really mean anything in PvE unless we’re talking speedclears). It does not matter one bit whether what you buy is an expansion, a microtransaction or anything else.
Are elite specs P2W? Yep.
You can compete against elite specs with base classes. Just take a look at your build.
But you’re less effective on an equal skill level, which makes it P2W.
P2W clear and simple is you pay for something with real money, which grants you more chance to win in a competitive PvP game
No.
Lets get something clear, P2W (Pay to Win) is not some fuzzy type of deal, where you can split hairs over it, it’s outrage and meaning are drawn from what exactly it means.
P2W means that someone can pay money and beat you, regardless of your skill or time invested into the game, and the ONLY way you can beat them, is you pay more.
That is why it was called “Pay to Win” and not “Pay for Crutch” or “Pay for some potentially beneficial ability”
If you want to toss out being true to the definition of what P2W is, then you would be wrong, because an Elite Spec does not guarantee you victory over a non-elite spec. There is still a large matter of class, build and skill to be taken into consideration, which can sway the victory.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
The expansion has P2W aspects in it, no reason to sugar coat it, but that is typical and even more typical is they need to make money to keep this all rolling. I’d say confidently more people than not want the game to get more content vs just freeze everything now and see how far it goes until sunset. And because of that alone, that is why expansions have power creep. They want incentive for PvE, WvW and PvP players to want to have the new thing. It’s a biz and I think for many here, they’ve delivered quality entertainment for you over the years.
“Pay-to-win” has become a buzzword for any perceived injustice where paying players gain access to content which is not immediately accessible to non-paying players.
It doesn’t even matter if the content provides a competitive advantage. So long as it’s desirable and exclusive it will be labeled “pay-to-win” and judged accordingly.
Still, it baffles me how someone could consider an expansion “pay-to-win” content. I’ve always considered expansions to be different games entirely.
I think I’m just going to gloss over the points that have already been made multiple times (expansion is more than just elite specs, cost as a function of hours played, etc.) and jump to the thing that strikes me most:
The complaint of inequality would at least have been believable if it were made before Tuesday. The Hammer of Balance (which many people often mistake for a long foam club) has descended, and that did a lot to bring elite specializations into alignment as an alternative, not a complete upgrade, to the base class.