Guild Wars 2

Wolfey.3407:

alain.1659:

You guys are just arguing for nothing. Elite specs are buy to win. Yes they are stronger, so not deny it. Oh some of you will say “but i own ….. elite spec with my vanilla…”. But that is solely a failure of your opponent.

Elite specs are stronger. Game is buy to win. No problems. This is not e-sports. This is an e-sport club at most, where the distinguished have more privilege. This came can not be an e-sport with current system and balance (including elite vs vanilla).

Yes Anet is a company, and it is not right for it to demand money from us. Especially if we bought the game 8 months before the patch. Oh all the mmos do it? Well they are wrong too. Multitude does not make something right. But you are free to leave. Or accept that there is no equality. And there will never be. Anet is not the family you have been longing for. It is a bloody company that aims to profit.

I do not have HoT. And will not have until the mentality of anet changes. I neber wanted a druid on my ranger, or a dh on my guardian. Or another melee dps on my thief. And still we have several bugs and balance fixes that are needed. Until then I will not spend a single dollar for a game that demands 50 bucks again after 8 months. If I wanted to pay that, I would play WoW.

So do not bother arguing. And do not think that Anet is your friend. Other players will support anet because they gain something too. Upgrade, buy the expansion…etc. Stop playing pvp. No one can force you to play. If you are not happy, just dont play. I dont. My guild dont. My friends dont.

What?
3 Years > 8 months
2012-2015

Rest of your post has valid info and arguments though

Friend, after I bought the game, just 8 months later there was this new expansion for me and my friends. That is why I said 8 months because for us it was really is. For older players situation is different, I know that. But I have 9 friends that are in the same situation as me. I only meant that

So you want salaried developers to spend budgeted time completely revamping a portion of the game so that you, someone unwilling to purchase an expansion that could be paid for with 1 shift at minimum wage, don’t have to buy the game?

Logical suggestion dude.

They went three years with no requirement to pay for anything they added! And, they added a lot! Gosh, you should see how blizzard screws its player base over.

Blizzard just sued a bunch of people who tried to stand up a free to play WoW server with their own money. It was a free version of the original game.

ANet sells you the game for $50.00, then gives you free updates for 3 years. They charge you nothing to log into their servers. After 3 years they release an expansion and charge you $50.00 to buy it, and make the first version of the game COMPLETELY free.

Your argument is kitten BS. How do you expect them to pay their staff?

Stigas.9378:

So you want salaried developers to spend budgeted time completely revamping a portion of the game so that you, someone unwilling to purchase an expansion that could be paid for with 1 shift at minimum wage, don’t have to buy the game?

Logical suggestion dude.

Nah, Obviously I rather ANet sell “pay2win greatsword” in the gemshop so that their salaried developers be paid./s

Logical statement dude.

Archon.6480:

Your argument is kitten BS. How do you expect them to pay their staff?

• There is a PvE content that players would buy.
• ANet can section off elite specs from WvWers and PvE too.
• There are gemshop items like finishers that pvp players can buy.
• Stronghold could be sectioned off for expansion only.
• Maybe have a reward track for free pvpers to grind for and Expansion players access Elite specs instantly.

ANet doesn’t need to profit off of Pay2win.

runeblade.7514:

Stigas.9378:

So you want salaried developers to spend budgeted time completely revamping a portion of the game so that you, someone unwilling to purchase an expansion that could be paid for with 1 shift at minimum wage, don’t have to buy the game?

Logical suggestion dude.

Nah, Obviously I rather ANet sell “pay2win greatsword” in the gemshop so that their salaried developers be paid./s

Logical statement dude.

You should probably refrain from using words like “logical”. It’s pretty clear that you don’t know the definition.

In regards to your P2W comment, I’m not sure what the hell you’re talking about. Are you suggesting that you’d rather they ruin a part of the game that you don’t play so you can enjoy the part you do play without having to pay?

runeblade.7514:

Archon.6480:

Your argument is kitten BS. How do you expect them to pay their staff?

• There is a PvE content that players would buy.
• ANet can section off elite specs from WvWers and PvE too.
• There are gemshop items like finishers that pvp players can buy.
• Stronghold could be sectioned off for expansion only.
• Maybe have a reward track for free pvpers to grind for and Expansion players access Elite specs instantly.

ANet doesn’t need to profit off of Pay2win.

This is hilarious. Hilariously idiotic. Anet profits off of game expansion. Imo it’s one of the best MMO’s for the price. So much entitled bs from these kittens.

Do you live in a communist country? Maybe that’s why you feel like everything should be free.

If there was a monthly subscription fee, your argument might make sense. But there’s not, so all your ideas sound stupid.

high socks.7628:

Much like Call of Duty, and the hundreds of other games that offer DLC’s, console games separate players who have paid for the DLC from accessing new maps, new gear, etc.

Now GW2 needs to either:
1. Disable the Heart of Thorns special builds from PvP
or
2. Separate players who have paid for Heart of Thorns and people who have not.

Preferably, PvP adjusts all the armor and weapons so nobody has advantages, GW2 needs to block these special builds, why?
Because it’s simply UNFAIR.

Ok I know what you’re thinking, yeah this kid is complaining so what we’ve been hearing this for months, just get better…

Doesn’t it bother anyone that you have to PAY for be better?
1. It’s discouraging playing PvP with the Heart of Thorns build.
2. It makes me feel like I’m not valued as a player.
3. I feel like it ruins the overall competitive spirit of the game.

Thoughts?

Absolute and total bullkitten.

Heart of Thorns isn’t DLC. It’s an expansion.
Asking that the game should never move forward just because some people don’t want to spend money is the most stupid and cheapass thing imaginable.

You don’t see people complaining that they can’t kill a lv100 with their lv90 character in World of Warcraft. If you’re not getting the expansion you’re simply choosing to stay in the past.

If anything you should be kissing Anet’s feet for actually not raising the level cap and still giving the core classes a really good fighting chance, instead of making them useless.

R O C.6574:

runeblade.7514:

Archon.6480:

Your argument is kitten BS. How do you expect them to pay their staff?

• There is a PvE content that players would buy.
• ANet can section off elite specs from WvWers and PvE too.
• There are gemshop items like finishers that pvp players can buy.
• Stronghold could be sectioned off for expansion only.
• Maybe have a reward track for free pvpers to grind for and Expansion players access Elite specs instantly.

ANet doesn’t need to profit off of Pay2win.

This is hilarious. Hilariously idiotic. Anet profits off of game expansion. Imo it’s one of the best MMO’s for the price. So much entitled bs from these kittens.

Do you live in a communist country? Maybe that’s why you feel like everything should be free.

If there was a monthly subscription fee, your argument might make sense. But there’s not, so all your ideas sound stupid.

I too would laugh if I like pay2win.

Stigas.9378:

runeblade.7514:

Stigas.9378:

So you want salaried developers to spend budgeted time completely revamping a portion of the game so that you, someone unwilling to purchase an expansion that could be paid for with 1 shift at minimum wage, don’t have to buy the game?

Logical suggestion dude.

Nah, Obviously I rather ANet sell “pay2win greatsword” in the gemshop so that their salaried developers be paid./s

Logical statement dude.

You should probably refrain from using words like “logical”. It’s pretty clear that you don’t know the definition.

In regards to your P2W comment, I’m not sure what the hell you’re talking about. Are you suggesting that you’d rather they ruin a part of the game that you don’t play so you can enjoy the part you do play without having to pay?

I am using the word ‘logical’ at the same context as you are.

I’m suggesting that elite specs to be available to all in sPvP regardless if you have the expansion or not.

It would be fair to everyone. No need to rely on pay2win for money.

runeblade.7514:

Stigas.9378:

runeblade.7514:

Stigas.9378:

So you want salaried developers to spend budgeted time completely revamping a portion of the game so that you, someone unwilling to purchase an expansion that could be paid for with 1 shift at minimum wage, don’t have to buy the game?

Logical suggestion dude.

Nah, Obviously I rather ANet sell “pay2win greatsword” in the gemshop so that their salaried developers be paid./s

Logical statement dude.

You should probably refrain from using words like “logical”. It’s pretty clear that you don’t know the definition.

In regards to your P2W comment, I’m not sure what the hell you’re talking about. Are you suggesting that you’d rather they ruin a part of the game that you don’t play so you can enjoy the part you do play without having to pay?

I am using the word ‘logical’ at the same context as you are.

I’m suggesting that elite specs to be available to all in sPvP regardless if you have the expansion or not.

It would be fair to everyone. No need to rely on pay2win for money.

Fair = pay the money like the rest of us to get elite specs

That people defend Elite specs being stupidly easier to play and stronger than base specs when they explicitly stated they wouldn’t be tells me everything I need to know about why the GW2 PvP scene deserves its permanent fate in the realms of mediocrity.

TainoFuerte.8136:

That people defend Elite specs being stupidly easier to play and stronger than base specs when they explicitly stated they wouldn’t be tells me everything I need to know about why the GW2 PvP scene deserves its permanent fate in the realms of mediocrity.

Yes, because the $50 entry fee to gain access to the Elite skills is so demanding.

If you were paid hourly for the time you’ve spent posting on these forums, you could have bought a deluxe copy for every cry baby in this thread.

TainoFuerte.8136:

That people defend Elite specs being stupidly easier to play and stronger than base specs when they explicitly stated they wouldn’t be tells me everything I need to know about why the GW2 PvP scene deserves its permanent fate in the realms of mediocrity.

Their business practice has nothing to do with how much of a mess GW2’s “GUYS ESPORTS PLEASE” PvP system is.

PvP’s problems stem from the design of the combat system being extremely poorly built for PvP in the first place, and their default competitive game mode’s focus on static control points being completely at odds with a combat system designed around constant movement, low TTK, and massive number of high im[pact abilities with extremely similar and short duration tells.

The business practice is fair. If you want to complain about PvP, there’s a whole laundry list of problems with it, but “pay to win” isn’t one of them.

Stigas.9378:

Yes, because the $50 entry fee to gain access to the Elite skills is so demanding.

Right, the old “it’s not expensive” defense. I’m immune to these white knight red herrings. I don’t think the expansion is worth 50 dollars, much less since I only PvP, but I don’t care about the money. Maybe they should just done what they said they were going to do?

PopeUrban.2578:

The business practice is fair. If you want to complain about PvP, there’s a whole laundry list of problems with it, but “pay to win” isn’t one of them.

As the consumer, I get to decide which business practice I think is fair and which isn’t. You don’t get to tell me how to evaluate anything Anet does.

runeblade.7514:

R O C.6574:

runeblade.7514:

Archon.6480:

Your argument is kitten BS. How do you expect them to pay their staff?

• There is a PvE content that players would buy.
• ANet can section off elite specs from WvWers and PvE too.
• There are gemshop items like finishers that pvp players can buy.
• Stronghold could be sectioned off for expansion only.
• Maybe have a reward track for free pvpers to grind for and Expansion players access Elite specs instantly.

ANet doesn’t need to profit off of Pay2win.

This is hilarious. Hilariously idiotic. Anet profits off of game expansion. Imo it’s one of the best MMO’s for the price. So much entitled bs from these kittens.

Do you live in a communist country? Maybe that’s why you feel like everything should be free.

If there was a monthly subscription fee, your argument might make sense. But there’s not, so all your ideas sound stupid.

I too would laugh if I like pay2win.

I waited 3 months before i bought the expansion. I played pvp with my core builds against elite builds. It was a lot harder to win. So what? I stopped doing pvp and did my dungeon thing. I like playing gw2 and I wanted play the new content, but I, like yourself, hate spending money on things.

I’m not the best at pvp and I realized that if I wanted to be competitive, i’d need to purchase HOT. So I did. That doesn’t mean someone can’t be competitive with just the core game. You just need above average skill to beat average players. If you call it pay2win whatever.

TainoFuerte.8136:

Stigas.9378:

Yes, because the $50 entry fee to gain access to the Elite skills is so demanding.

Right, the old “it’s not expensive” defense. I’m immune to these white knight red herrings. I don’t think the expansion is worth 50 dollars, much less since I only PvP, but I don’t care about the money. Maybe they should just done what they said they were going to do?

So it’s the broken promise that has you all twisted up? Can you link a source for this promise that the elite specs would be equal to the core ones? I get it. They should stand by their word. I didn’t know such a statement had been made. I just assumed elite meant better.

I’m less annoyed about the 50 bucks than I am the fact that builds I enjoyed creating and playing are now kitten because they’re not the new shiny.

But, you know, call me names or something if that makes folks feel good.

This isn’t Call of Duty or a console game… it’s an MMORPG and most MMORPGs wont allow you to advance to the next level without buying their expansion. Oh and these MMOs generally allow you to play with other players higher than your level…

Why are people having issues with something that has always existed with this genre type?

Saiyan.1704:

This isn’t Call of Duty or a console game… it’s an MMORPG and most MMORPGs wont allow you to advance to the next level without buying their expansion. Oh and these MMOs generally allow you to play with other players higher than your level…

Why are people are having issues with something that has always existed with this genre type?

I’ve noticed that the better a game treats its players, the more it’s likely they will be entitled and constantly demand more.
I mean, quite a few of HoT’s additions are shared with the core game, so much that a lot of players decide to not buy the expansion and just stick with the f2p model without ever spending a cent because it’s so fair. Yet people ask for more.

All the while people seem perfectly fine with stuff like WoW or Swtor, that have either huge restrictions or just terrible value for money.

I honestly wonder if these people actually understand that if they don’t support the game and simply leech from it, they’ll just end up killing what they enjoy.
Not to mention that a player that refuses to support the game is worth basically nothing to Arenanet.

I stopped playing spvp entirely shortly after HoT. I do have HoT, but I don’t play any of the elites.

The core classes are hopelessly powerless versus the elites, and I don’t want to run an elite. I’d never really know if I won the fight because of skill, or because I was being carried by the elite.

Saiyan.1704:

This isn’t Call of Duty or a console game… it’s an MMORPG and most MMORPGs wont allow you to advance to the next level without buying their expansion. Oh and these MMOs generally allow you to play with other players higher than your level…

Why are people are having issues with something that has always existed with this genre type?

Because people feel so entitled now its ridiculous. 90% of the pvp forums is just people complaining about one thing or the next thing and it all stems from them losing pvp games. IT HAS TO BE SOMEONE ELSE’s FAULT IM LOSING!

Lol. Still nobody understands the real problem except few, and others are getting their ego boosted so much that they do not care.

By the way, to those who defend “but everyone doing it so it must be right and normal” without any other sprinkle of idea; you are what is wrong in this world.

alain.1659:

Lol. Still nobody understands the real problem except few, and others are getting their ego boosted so much that they do not care.

By the way, to those who defend “but everyone doing it so it must be right and normal” without any other sprinkle of idea; you are what is wrong in this world.

wrong, people who expect something for nothing are whats wrong with the world.

It is an MMO it is an expansion, you all knew the HOT elites were going to be better than the core classes. IF you decided the money isnt worth it thats your decision, no fault of anets.

You are those who do not understand mate. You still think that it is about the money. No it is not. We still buy gems and support the core game. You wish to assault with words, not to understand. Therefore it is not possible for us to communicate properly.

alain.1659:

You are those who do not understand mate. You still think that it is about the money. No it is not. We still buy gems and support the core game. You wish to assault with words, not to understand. Therefore it is not possible for us to communicate properly.

if its not about the money please explain why anyone would not get HOT.

Also having a different opinion is hardly assaulting you, dont be so sensitive.

I have been constantly telling about what is wrong with HoT. If you read other post in this topic you can see the reason. I could easily pay that money, I earn it so I can spend it. But why would I? Why would I support an idea that destroys the decorum of the game? HoT is not designed, thought, planned and applied well. Not a single elite class was planned in the means of balance. Trait changes were made against the players wishes. What did people want? Guardians wanted a pew pew DH? Nope. Rangers wanted a healer? Nope. Warriors wanted the same thing with a different name? Nope.

The changes were made without having players opinion. I haven’t seen a carefully designed patch until the 19.04.2016 patch. There were (and still some remain) millions of bugs until the beginning of this month. Read profession forums. Ranger pet names, engi static discharge problems… All basic skills and things. I still get “obstructed” in a flat surface (invisible rocks and land shapes). So, before fixing all the bugs, and trying to establish a balance, they forced HoT. And it is not even limited with that.

When HoT came, many guild upgrades were destroyed, personal guilds especially. This was strike one. They took what you had and tried to sell you back. This might seem small but it damages the trust. But their biggest failure was the elites. They themselves said that the elites were just a different style of play, not an upgrade. But you can see what happened. In my opinion, they should have fired the team that created elite’s right there. Then we would have some kind of trust for Anet.

But it did not finish here, no. I rejected the idea of buying HoT, with some of my guildies, and my family. We saw that the elites were essential, and we felt betrayed. I loved my longbow ranger, my support guardian, my pistol thief. I love the archer archetype. But it was all in vain. DH was too strong so they had to put some reflects into the new professions, which hampered the ranged style of play. And also druids were already using LB, so core rangers were redundant. Pets were a lot stronger, but still their AI sucked. And their names…

I can go on for all night. I am sure there are some points that you would agree, and some you would disagree. All I wanted was a decent bug fix, and some balance changes. Instead they pushed more power creep, more careless patches and changes. I have never seen a game that releases a consecutive number of 8 patches in a night. And the next patch usually removes what this patch brings.

So this is the main reason we, me and my friends, do not buy HoT. I want a developer that listens his/her players. How long we were begging for a bloody DPS Meter? How long were we asking for an option to enter a quantity for buying and selling to vendors? How many profession bugs do we still have? What happened to core traitlines, utility cooldowns and weapon skills? All we got is a new set of traits, skills, weapons which are not balanced properly, designed poorly and changes weekly/monthly.

There is a huge trust issue between my and Anet, I can tell for my part. They do not care. They do not listen. They do not play their own game properly. Oh some will say that " If you think this game is bad, design one yourself if it is so easy" kind of thing. Well I try to do my job perfectly, and I am fairly good at it. This is their job, and they failed several times. Not for their lack of talent but for their lack of interest. How many players said the same thing about Anet not listening? Heck we even have jokes about their nerfing/buffing style according to the players whining. This is bad. Listening those only scream is a sign of bad leadership.

Anyway, as I was disconnected from WvW for the third time today, and forced to wait a queue of 25+ (and I was lucky, some people waited for way more), I still do not believe Anet. Again they forced a rule without proper preparation and again players suffered. Oh everything will be balanced in the next, or the one after that, patch I am sure. It always does in a way. But I am bored with these constant changes, patches, and stuff. But maybe they would bring us a new skin with flying bisons on it.

alain.1659:

What did people want? Guardians wanted a pew pew DH? Nope. Rangers wanted a healer? Nope. Warriors wanted the same thing with a different name? Nope.

Actually Guardians did want a Pew Pew weapon… it has been asked before countless times. What has also been asked for was a viable Burn build and Anet delivered that right before HoT release. Technically, Burn Guardian is where it is now because of Anet catering. If only HoT power creep didn’t kill core builds.

Not to mention that Anet (Karl) gave us the exact Shield changes that we asked for (albeit, took a while to deliver) and before HoT released we asked for a peel effect and they gave us F2 Wings of Resolve (that the community wished was better but for Guardian, it was a lot to ask for)

Can’t speak for your class, but they indeed gave us quite a few items.

Saiyan.1704:

alain.1659:

What did people want? Guardians wanted a pew pew DH? Nope. Rangers wanted a healer? Nope. Warriors wanted the same thing with a different name? Nope.

Actually Guardians did want a Pew Pew weapon… it has been asked before countless times. What has also been asked for was a viable Burn build and Anet delivered that right before HoT release. Technically, Burn Guardian is where it is now because of Anet catering. If only HoT power creep didn’t kill core builds.

Not to mention that Anet (Karl) gave us the exact Shield changes that we asked for (albeit, took a while to deliver) and before HoT released we asked for a peel effect and they gave us F2 Wings of Resolve (that the community wished was better but for Guardian, it was a lot to ask for)

Can’t speak for your class, but they indeed gave us quite a few items.

As for the ranger part, a viable support option has been one of the most asked for things from the ranger community for years now. Spirits were only viable for a short time, and ever since then rangers had been struggling to find a place in the meta because we just didn’t have the support options to make an impact in team fights and thieves dominated the roamer role. We didn’t have a place.

Druid gave us top tier healing that made us incredibly relevant in team fights, increased our self sustain considerably to let us survive team fights longer, and gave us even more AoE control effects to help us hinder enemies in team fights. Druid made us excel in the one place we were lacking.

So while we didn’t specifically ask for heals we DID ask for everything the druid package gave us. Powerful support and a strong presence in team fights. Viability in high end PVP. Shoot, druid even improved our mobility to make us better roamers.

core ranger is total trash. but ive boycotted the druid due to ANet’s ineptitude, and will continue to do so even if i feed every game. it’s like they tried to solve ALL of our profession’s problems with this elite, and they did at the price of killing the core specs.

alain.1659:

You are those who do not understand mate. You still think that it is about the money. No it is not. We still buy gems and support the core game. You wish to assault with words, not to understand. Therefore it is not possible for us to communicate properly.

The only thing there is to communicate is that the ideas brought forth by the OP are nonsense.

Elite specs are expansion content. People have worked to create them. You won’t get them for free. Yes, they’re stronger at the moment, but that’s a powercreep problem that will hopefully be resolved with balance patches. And even then, core classes still have a great fighting chance.
The game moves forward. You can choose to follow or stay behind.

The idea of splitting the community in two is even worse. You’re literally asking to divide and hurt the playerbase of the game because you don’t want to buy an expansion. It’s pretty kitten selfish.

If you’re supporting the game with gems, props to you. Save the money you’re spending on gems for a while and get the expansion. Problem solved.

emma.5967:

A fractured Tale

A little boy goes into a Toystore.

Boy: “Hello sir, I’d like to buy this red ball.”
Toystore Clerk: “Here you go little fella, that’d be 30 bucks.”

The boy pays the clerk and gets the ball. He plays ball with his friends a lot and is happy.
Some time has passed and the little boy still enjoys playing with his ball.
Suddenly the Toystore Guy appears.

T: “Hey little fella. We’re making updates on all our balls.”
B: “Umm. Ok, I guess?”

He hands out the ball to the toystore Guy. The toystore guy changes the color of the ball to green, deflates it a bit and hands it out to the little boy.

T: “Here you go, little fella.”
B: “Why is my ball missing air now?”
T: "Because now you can get the new full inflated Ball of Thorns which is all flashy ‘n stuff. That’d be 40 bucks. We have costs, you know … "
B: “40 bucks is a lot of money for me.”
WhiteKnightDude: “Hey just give him the 40 bucks. You already played hundreds of hours with your ball. Don’t you think it’s worth more? Don’t be a cheap kitten.”
B: “…”

Well said.

high socks.7628:

emma.5967:

A fractured Tale

A little boy goes into a Toystore.

Boy: “Hello sir, I’d like to buy this red ball.”
Toystore Clerk: “Here you go little fella, that’d be 30 bucks.”

The boy pays the clerk and gets the ball. He plays ball with his friends a lot and is happy.
Some time has passed and the little boy still enjoys playing with his ball.
Suddenly the Toystore Guy appears.

T: “Hey little fella. We’re making updates on all our balls.”
B: “Umm. Ok, I guess?”

He hands out the ball to the toystore Guy. The toystore guy changes the color of the ball to green, deflates it a bit and hands it out to the little boy.

T: “Here you go, little fella.”
B: “Why is my ball missing air now?”
T: "Because now you can get the new full inflated Ball of Thorns which is all flashy ‘n stuff. That’d be 40 bucks. We have costs, you know … "
B: “40 bucks is a lot of money for me.”
WhiteKnightDude: “Hey just give him the 40 bucks. You already played hundreds of hours with your ball. Don’t you think it’s worth more? Don’t be a cheap kitten.”
B: “…”

Well said.

Except that that analogy is faulty since it:

- does not account for the ball producing continued cost to the store (which GW2 does in form of developement, server cost, patches)
- the ball does not stop “working” if the store goes bankrupt
- does not account for the ball breaking and eventually requiring a repurchase (don’t we all love these magical balls that do not wear and tear after years of use…)

The only thing the analogy does right is:

- compare the onetime purchse costs from a pure consumer side
- properly reflect the view of people who feel entitled to free stuff

high socks.7628:

Much like Call of Duty, and the hundreds of other games that offer DLC’s, console games separate players who have paid for the DLC from accessing new maps, new gear, etc.

Now GW2 needs to either:
1. Disable the Heart of Thorns special builds from PvP
or
2. Separate players who have paid for Heart of Thorns and people who have not.

Preferably, PvP adjusts all the armor and weapons so nobody has advantages, GW2 needs to block these special builds, why?
Because it’s simply UNFAIR.

Ok I know what you’re thinking, yeah this kid is complaining so what we’ve been hearing this for months, just get better…

Doesn’t it bother anyone that you have to PAY for be better?
1. It’s discouraging playing PvP with the Heart of Thorns build.
2. It makes me feel like I’m not valued as a player.
3. I feel like it ruins the overall competitive spirit of the game.

Thoughts?

- You’re wrong because I bought Heart of Thorns but I found that using base Necro is better than using Reaper in the current meta.

- You’re wrong because I bought Heart of Thorns but the only characters that it makes remotely better are Engies, Guardian, Mesmers and Rangers. Admittedly that’s like half the base professions in the game but those characters could easily do without the Specialization. I know because I play condi engie and don’t use the Scrapper.

- You’re wrong because there are some of us that are willing to meet the challenge. And we have met it with flying colours….. in some cases

Or just buy HOT??

Sure there should be more balance between core/HOT, cry about that if you want more balance.
Dont cry you have to pay for the game to be better! because all you say is you dont care about balance but you just want to be the best.

Soothsayer.9206:

runeblade.7514:

Stigas.9378:

runeblade.7514:

Stigas.9378:

So you want salaried developers to spend budgeted time completely revamping a portion of the game so that you, someone unwilling to purchase an expansion that could be paid for with 1 shift at minimum wage, don’t have to buy the game?

Logical suggestion dude.

Nah, Obviously I rather ANet sell “pay2win greatsword” in the gemshop so that their salaried developers be paid./s

Logical statement dude.

You should probably refrain from using words like “logical”. It’s pretty clear that you don’t know the definition.

In regards to your P2W comment, I’m not sure what the hell you’re talking about. Are you suggesting that you’d rather they ruin a part of the game that you don’t play so you can enjoy the part you do play without having to pay?

I am using the word ‘logical’ at the same context as you are.

I’m suggesting that elite specs to be available to all in sPvP regardless if you have the expansion or not.

It would be fair to everyone. No need to rely on pay2win for money.

Fair = pay the money like the rest of us to get elite specs

The logic of pay2win.

nicknamenick.2437:

Or just buy HOT??

Sure there should be more balance between core/HOT, cry about that if you want more balance.
Dont cry you have to pay for the game to be better! because all you say is you dont care about balance but you just want to be the best.

In a perfect world, Core and HoT build would be balanced. But it isn’t and will never be.

runeblade.7514:

Soothsayer.9206:

runeblade.7514:

Stigas.9378:

runeblade.7514:

Stigas.9378:

So you want salaried developers to spend budgeted time completely revamping a portion of the game so that you, someone unwilling to purchase an expansion that could be paid for with 1 shift at minimum wage, don’t have to buy the game?

Logical suggestion dude.

Nah, Obviously I rather ANet sell “pay2win greatsword” in the gemshop so that their salaried developers be paid./s

Logical statement dude.

You should probably refrain from using words like “logical”. It’s pretty clear that you don’t know the definition.

In regards to your P2W comment, I’m not sure what the hell you’re talking about. Are you suggesting that you’d rather they ruin a part of the game that you don’t play so you can enjoy the part you do play without having to pay?

I am using the word ‘logical’ at the same context as you are.

I’m suggesting that elite specs to be available to all in sPvP regardless if you have the expansion or not.

It would be fair to everyone. No need to rely on pay2win for money.

Fair = pay the money like the rest of us to get elite specs

The logic of pay2win.

There are core specs and elite specs, Anet designed it that way. Fair means that if you want elite specs, pay for them; not complicated. “I want balance or every benefit elites (wouldn’t be elite if they are on par with core) have but don’t want to have to purchase them,” is neither fair nor is it logical. No, it’s by design. All games have expansions, you want that content you have to pay for it. You have already received what you have purchased but want to complain about elites because you don’t get that content and therefore feel like you can’t be as competitive. You can easily remedy that: purchase HoT and get the elite specs or be content with your purchase of GW2 core game, nothing more. It’s always some sort of ad hominem/red herring/straw man type of arguments: “you pay to win.” No, I pay for the elite content, winning is not a guarantee covered in the price of purchase. Perhaps it is the logic of “pay to win,” but at least it’s not logic of entitlement.

Soothsayer.9206:

Perhaps it is the logic of “pay to win,”

Well, at least you understand that it is pay2win.

If core specs and elite specs were balanced, you couldn’t call them elite…

runeblade.7514:

Soothsayer.9206:

Perhaps it is the logic of “pay to win,”

Well, at least you understand that it is pay2win.

I thought my sarcasm was obvious; I apologize. It’s not pay to win; it’s pay to get elite specs in HoT on top of the core specs I purchased when I bought GW2. Winning is determined by skill (both individually and corporately) but it didn’t come included with my purchase of HoT. It’s something I have to earn. I have stated it before, Anet designed it to be core and elite, therefore it’s not mean’t to be balanced but that in no way means you cannot be competitive or enjoy what you already have.

Soothsayer.9206:

runeblade.7514:

Soothsayer.9206:

Perhaps it is the logic of “pay to win,”

Well, at least you understand that it is pay2win.

I thought my sarcasm was obvious; I apologize. It’s not pay to win; it’s pay to get elite specs in HoT on top of the core specs I purchased when I bought GW2. Winning is determined by skill (both individually and corporately) but it didn’t come included with my purchase of HoT. It’s something I have to earn. I have stated it before, Anet designed it to be core and elite, therefore it’s not mean’t to be balanced but that in no way means you cannot be competitive or enjoy what you already have.

So, if ANet sold a power boost which gives an advantage in PvP, it wouldn’t be pay to win to you.

runeblade.7514:

Soothsayer.9206:

runeblade.7514:

Soothsayer.9206:

Perhaps it is the logic of “pay to win,”

Well, at least you understand that it is pay2win.

I thought my sarcasm was obvious; I apologize. It’s not pay to win; it’s pay to get elite specs in HoT on top of the core specs I purchased when I bought GW2. Winning is determined by skill (both individually and corporately) but it didn’t come included with my purchase of HoT. It’s something I have to earn. I have stated it before, Anet designed it to be core and elite, therefore it’s not mean’t to be balanced but that in no way means you cannot be competitive or enjoy what you already have.

So, if ANet sold a power boost which gives an advantage in PvP, it wouldn’t be pay to win to you.

Apples to oranges comparison. It is an expansion with new content across all modes of play, which included elite specs, new maps, raids, etc. If you want the new content and all that goes with it, purchase it like everyone else who purchased it. Otherwise, enjoy the core content, there’s a lot there to enjoy and stop asking for elite content without having to pay for it. It is not a pay to win, paying doesn’t guarantee wins, rather it’s pay to play the new content.

Or, wait for it, wait for it, you support the game you play? How about it, buddy? You get core game for free, it wasn’t free a year ago, and you still dare to complain?
How about core game would once again become buy to play, together with heart of thorns? Don’t buy – don’t play at all. Would be way less whiners around here.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Or, wait for it, wait for it, you support the game you play? How about it, buddy? You get core game for free, it wasn’t free a year ago, and you still dare to complain?
How about core game would once again become buy to play, together with heart of thorns? Don’t buy – don’t play at all. Would be way less whiners around here.

?
We bought core game mate. Free accounts can’t post on forums.

And it’s not about the money. It’s about PvP being balanced and diverse, which it isn’t.

R O C.6574:

If core specs and elite specs were balanced, you couldn’t call them elite…

it’s a misnomer. they didnt INTEND to make elites OP and core specs obsolete. it just turned out that way because they dont know what theyre doing.

Cyninja.2954:

Except that that analogy is faulty since it:
- does not account for the ball producing continued cost to the store (which GW2 does in form of developement, server cost, patches)
- the ball does not stop “working” if the store goes bankrupt

But that’s the problem of the toystore, because they chose this business model. The boy got told he just has to pay once.

- properly reflect the view of people who feel entitled to free stuff

If you paid for it, it is not free.

emma.5967:

Cyninja.2954:

Except that that analogy is faulty since it:
- does not account for the ball producing continued cost to the store (which GW2 does in form of developement, server cost, patches)
- the ball does not stop “working” if the store goes bankrupt

But that’s the problem of the toystore, because they chose this business model. The boy got told he just has to pay once.

No, that is the problem of your limited analogy. You omited the “unfun” parts to make it sound in favor of a point you were trying to make. I was simply pointing out the flaws and omited facts in it.

emma.5967:

Cyninja.2954:

- properly reflect the view of people who feel entitled to free stuff

If you paid for it, it is not free.

Yes, if you payed for the game 4 years ago you are entitled to free future content, patches, expansions and basically slave labor off of the deveopement staff. Just how communist are you?

Cyninja.2954:

No, that is the problem of your limited analogy. You omited the “unfun” parts to make it sound in favor of a point you were trying to make. I was simply pointing out the flaws and omited facts in it.

Analogys are limited most of the time. It’s in their nature. … I omited the server costs etc., because the game was sold without later costs.

Cyninja.2954:

Yes, if you payed for the game 4 years ago you are entitled to free future content, patches, expansions and basically slave labor off of the deveopement staff. Just how communist are you?

I found no one here who wants to be entitled for free content or expansions. I think nearly everybody here is fine with paying for new maps or story. But a paywall for existing content is like a subscription fee backdoor.
Slave labor the development staff? I don’t know the prices in Seattle, but software engineers are payed quite good most places.