Guild Wars 2

Back to square one.

My Guardian, tankiest build you can have in GW2, with its pathetic 13K HP pool dies to one stunlock in 1s to 2 zerkers.

Tankiest toon/dies/1s…a zerker dies in 1s a tank dies in 1s, uhm what, what is difference then, why should i care to play bunker.

With the specialisation patch you kicked our ….. by removing vitality from the attributes, Guardian was the only class needed the Ministel Amu but you made Druids OP with it and instead of fixing druid you just deleted an amu.

Good job

play better

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

You know I have a limited amount of CDs, when they are on CD and somebody opens on me there isn’t too many things I can do and believe me I need all of my CDs to survive with my pathetic 13K HP pool as a tank.

Well everyone, especially guardian, dies if they’re jumped and their defenses are on CD. The only exceptions to this would probably be thief (who has SB to attempt to escape) and warrior (and they’d need GS for any chance to escape).

I don’t see how that is the class’ or anet’s fault.

Funnily enough, one week ago with the amount of HP and Toughness I had, they were not able to one shot me, even without my CD.

Sure they killed me but at least it will take 2-3s which will give me a chance to react.

Now that I have paper armor or 3.5K toughness does not make any difference, I still die in 1s.

posthumecaver.6473:

Back to square one.

My Guardian, tankiest build you can have in GW2, with its pathetic 13K HP pool dies to one stunlock in 1s to 2 zerkers.

Tankiest toon/dies/1s…a zerker dies in 1s a tank dies in 1s, uhm what, what is difference then, why should i care to play bunker.

With the specialisation patch you kicked our ….. by removing vitality from the attributes, Guardian was the only class needed the Ministel Amu but you made Druids OP with it and instead of fixing druid you just deleted an amu.

Good job

I am a bunker guard for team Radioactive, I am very experienced with around 50 esls, multiple tournaments, monthlies, etc. It is nearly impossible to play bunker guard right now because the healthpool is too low, you can and will get stunchained and killed with a few hits because of the powercreep since Xpac launch.

You are completely correct, this is a problem that needs to get fixed or all guards have to go DH and do damage, when that happens there is no point in even calling the class “guardian”.

Like the thiefs. Assassins class which cant actually kill anybody. Why not call him a “Runner”?

Zdenny.2704:

Like the thiefs. Assassins class which cant actually kill anybody. Why not call him a “Runner”?

We’ll they did start by giving them running shoes for their elite specialization icon.

The guardian’s roots lie within the monk and paragon classes in GW1, which were heavily support-focused. It’s ashame that, at present, rangers can fulfill this role more effectively and playing a bunker/support guard is barely viable since the removal of the minstrel’s amulet as it is difficult to deal with the power creep since HoT with such a low base HP pool.

Tiffany.8576:

The guardian’s roots lie within the monk and paragon classes in GW1, which were heavily support-focused. It’s ashame that, at present, rangers can fulfill this role more effectively and playing a bunker/support guard is barely viable since the removal of the minstrel’s amulet as it is difficult to deal with the power creep since HoT with such a low base HP pool.

You’re supposed to pew-pew instead of supporting your team, because thats more healthy and exciting for devs to watch.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

This is your 1v2 Zerk Thief + Mesmer scenario. If you’re a bunk guardian, you’re going to get stun locked and bursted down fast but if you see them coming then your Focus#5, Mace#3, Dodge, Shelter, F3 Stability, SYG, Elite, F3 Stability, Staff #5, will allow you to survive for awhile rather than get 1 shotted. These classes spec don’t burst faster than a zerk mes/thief combo.

Bunk Guardians never had health pool issues prepatch unless they went up against any kind of condi burst build like burn guard.

Saiyan.1704:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

This is your 1v2 Zerk Thief + Mesmer scenario. If you’re a bunk guardian, you’re going to get stun locked and bursted down fast but if you see them coming then your Focus#5, Mace#3, Dodge, Shelter, F3 Stability, SYG, Elite, F3 Stability, Staff #5, will allow you to survive for awhile rather than get 1 shotted. These classes spec don’t burst faster than a zerk mes/thief combo.

Bunk Guardians never had health pool issues prepatch unless they went up against any kind of condi burst build like burn guard.

So what happens if you have none of this CDs while you were bursted 10s ago with some miracle you survived and you are going to next fight.

None of these CDs will come off CD but the CD of the Mesmers/Thief already did.

So stunlock and dead one in 1s, only thing I want at least a chance to dodge because Mesm alone can deploy 16K instagib damage in its opener and I have a freaking 13K HP.

How would a sentinel’s shout build that uses DH over valor work? I mean, I don’t think you gain all that much for a bunker build from that traitline going that route, aside from bulwark and shield of courage, but wouldn’t sentinels help you survive the burst better to be able to get rezzes and such?

nearlight.3064:

How would a sentinel’s shout build that uses DH over valor work? I mean, I don’t think you gain all that much for a bunker build from that traitline going that route, aside from bulwark and shield of courage, but wouldn’t sentinels help you survive the burst better to be able to get rezzes and such?

You give up on sustain, so even if you survive burst, you will die few seconds later once your invuls end. Also you give up on all healing for your team.

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

How would a sentinel’s shout build that uses DH over valor work? I mean, I don’t think you gain all that much for a bunker build from that traitline going that route, aside from bulwark and shield of courage, but wouldn’t sentinels help you survive the burst better to be able to get rezzes and such?

You give up on sustain, so even if you survive burst, you will die few seconds later once your invuls end. Also you give up on all healing for your team.

Thats true, thought my inital impressions showed me that druid/tempest can heal their team far more than a cleric guard ever could, even in celestial. I’d easily get 3 times as much healing to allies per game on cele druid compared to cleric guard prepatch.

Morwath.9817:

Tiffany.8576:

The guardian’s roots lie within the monk and paragon classes in GW1, which were heavily support-focused. It’s ashame that, at present, rangers can fulfill this role more effectively and playing a bunker/support guard is barely viable since the removal of the minstrel’s amulet as it is difficult to deal with the power creep since HoT with such a low base HP pool.

You’re supposed to pew-pew instead of supporting your team, because thats more healthy and exciting for devs to watch.

lmao

Lordrosicky.5813:

Morwath.9817:

Tiffany.8576:

The guardian’s roots lie within the monk and paragon classes in GW1, which were heavily support-focused. It’s ashame that, at present, rangers can fulfill this role more effectively and playing a bunker/support guard is barely viable since the removal of the minstrel’s amulet as it is difficult to deal with the power creep since HoT with such a low base HP pool.

You’re supposed to pew-pew instead of supporting your team, because thats more healthy and exciting for devs to watch.

lmao

You disagree?

Morwath.9817:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Morwath.9817:

Tiffany.8576:

The guardian’s roots lie within the monk and paragon classes in GW1, which were heavily support-focused. It’s ashame that, at present, rangers can fulfill this role more effectively and playing a bunker/support guard is barely viable since the removal of the minstrel’s amulet as it is difficult to deal with the power creep since HoT with such a low base HP pool.

You’re supposed to pew-pew instead of supporting your team, because thats more healthy and exciting for devs to watch.

lmao

You disagree?

No but its funny

As a strong advocate for bunker guard, if it isn’t good suck it up and play something else.

Ozie.4176:

As a strong advocate for bunker guard, if it isn’t good suck it up and play something else.

Thats pretty arrogant and ignorant thing to say. Do you realise some people bought GW2 and/or HoT and invested their time just because they were enjoying filling role of e.g. Supportive Bunker and so called Developers shouldn’t threat them as worse kind of players, since they are the same customers?

I’ve for example bought HoT only because of Minstrel to show my gratitude for finaly listening to community asking for Tank-Support Amulet… after Minstrel was removed only week after release without any tries of “shaving it” I had feeling of being tricked by Anet.

Morwath.9817:

Ozie.4176:

As a strong advocate for bunker guard, if it isn’t good suck it up and play something else.

Thats pretty arrogant and ignorant thing to say. Do you realise some people bought GW2 and/or HoT and invested their time just because they were enjoying filling role of e.g. Supportive Bunker and so called Developers shouldn’t threat them as worse kind of players, since they are the same customers?

I’ve for example bought HoT only because of Minstrel to show my gratitude for finaly listening to community asking for Tank-Support Amulet… after Minstrel was removed only week after release without any tries of “shaving it” I had feeling of being tricked by Anet.

As you have recently bought HoT, you can still ask for a refund if it bothers you that much.

butch.8136:

Morwath.9817:

Ozie.4176:

As a strong advocate for bunker guard, if it isn’t good suck it up and play something else.

Thats pretty arrogant and ignorant thing to say. Do you realise some people bought GW2 and/or HoT and invested their time just because they were enjoying filling role of e.g. Supportive Bunker and so called Developers shouldn’t threat them as worse kind of players, since they are the same customers?

I’ve for example bought HoT only because of Minstrel to show my gratitude for finaly listening to community asking for Tank-Support Amulet… after Minstrel was removed only week after release without any tries of “shaving it” I had feeling of being tricked by Anet.

As you have recently bought HoT, you can still ask for a refund if it bothers you that much.

Has humanity achieved anything by giving up?

Saiyan.1704:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

This is your 1v2 Zerk Thief + Mesmer scenario. If you’re a bunk guardian, you’re going to get stun locked and bursted down fast but if you see them coming then your Focus#5, Mace#3, Dodge, Shelter, F3 Stability, SYG, Elite, F3 Stability, Staff #5, will allow you to survive for awhile rather than get 1 shotted. These classes spec don’t burst faster than a zerk mes/thief combo.

Bunk Guardians never had health pool issues prepatch unless they went up against any kind of condi burst build like burn guard.

Lol you are talking to me as if I know nothing about guardian…..

Please…you don’t even realize who you are talking to.

Guardian has always had health issues since they got rid of trait-line attributes as well as a multitude of other problems. You say these things as if anyone wouldn’t know how to funamentally survive on a guardian. That is not even the argument.

The argument is the power creep has been evident for some time, yet anet still has yet to provide the class with any new utility to help survive/support itself and teammates within 3 years.

Don’t sit there and lecture me about bunker guardian and what is wrong with or how to survive with it because sadly no one really can.

The health pool atm is the number one issue as well an a lot of problems with the core issue of guardian.

lilz shorty.1879:

Saiyan.1704:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

This is your 1v2 Zerk Thief + Mesmer scenario. If you’re a bunk guardian, you’re going to get stun locked and bursted down fast but if you see them coming then your Focus#5, Mace#3, Dodge, Shelter, F3 Stability, SYG, Elite, F3 Stability, Staff #5, will allow you to survive for awhile rather than get 1 shotted. These classes spec don’t burst faster than a zerk mes/thief combo.

Bunk Guardians never had health pool issues prepatch unless they went up against any kind of condi burst build like burn guard.

Guardian has always had health issues since they got rid of trait-line attributes as well as a multitude of other problems. You say these things as if anyone wouldn’t know how to funamentally survive on a guardian. That is not even the argument.

The argument is the power creep has been evident for some time, yet anet still has yet to provide the class with any new utility to help survive/support itself and teammates within 3 years.

The health pool atm is the number one issue as well an a lot of problems with the core issue of guardian.

Lets stop talking generically here. The point of the matter is Bunker Guardian’s health pool. I listed examples prepatch why what you said wasn’t true. Here’s another factual example: Abjured prepatch were known to outrotate Bunker Guardians rather than burst them down on point.

You can say bunk guardians sustain worse post patch compared to prepatch but you can’t say their issue has always been a low health pool… that’s just incorrect.

Saiyan.1704:

You can say bunk guardians sustain worse post patch compared to prepatch but you can’t say their issue has always been a low health pool… that’s just incorrect.

What Morph was saying is that every other role has experienced a significant amount of power creep with HoT while the Bunker role got nothing except for Minstrel’s Amulet which was promptly removed.
Cleric’s Guard remained at 13.5k hp. Cleric’s Ele can get about 12.8k hp using the new Runes of Durability.

Frankly Saiyan, I haven’t experienced a 2v1 Mes/Thief burst since Heart of Thorns came out. Teams don’t run that particular combo as there are a bevy of new specializations that accomplish the same task more efficiently.
Much more likely is a 2v1 Reaper/Revenant pushing you with Broken Assault and Chills coming from every direction. In both cases, a low HP pool makes you a liability for your team.

I’ve made the switch to the Tempest ele build that everyone plays, it was not a difficult transition. However, classes such as Bunker Guard, Staff Ele and Support roles in general have been forced out of the meta. Their low hp pools and inability to do damage are simply liabilities with the power creep that Cele/Soldiers/Marauder Bruisers have experienced.

Tldr; Support is Dead, Meta has narrowed down to Bruiser Comps only. Pick up a Cele/Soldier/Marauder amulet and equip one of the new specializations = “healthy gameplay.”

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

Did bunker guard work before HoT? Because if so, then it is a l2p issue. If HoT brought about ANYTHING, its that everyone has much better ways of sustaining/CCing. Aside from skills like gun flame that you’ll probably never see at a high level, damage is more or less the same.

If you get ganked by two guys running what are arguably the highest burst and single target CC classes in the game, what’s the issue? Do you expect to nullify their damage entirely and run around in circles? Back when people cried about minstrel, the commonly repeated counter was “bring two dpsers and focus”. In many cases, it didn’t work because the amulet made you too tanky. Now, though? It finally works again and matches can move forward instead of a guy rofltanking more damage than a worldboss.

If you see a trap DH jump down onto your point and drop all his traps to kill you, you can either concede the point and assist another location OR (just an idea mind you, I haven’t played many tourneys) your +1 roamer keeps tabs on the people who’ve died and watch for possible plays. If your roamer is good, you shouldn’t have an issue getting ganked, but that’s just my nameless self speaking.

Also, about the random interrupts….. As sayian listed, bunker has ENOUGH sources of stunbreak and stab.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Did bunker guard work before HoT? Because if so, then it is a l2p issue. If HoT brought about ANYTHING, its that everyone has much better ways of sustaining/CCing.

emphasis

much better ways of sustaining/CCing.

Bunkers, especially bunker guards have traditionally be counted by heavy CC since all of their defensives are actives.

HoT gave everyone new tools to lock bunkers out of those actives. hence 13k HP being worth way less than it used to be. Although really you have to be tripping to think that HoT didn’t also bring a increase in damage output, as least as far as the elites are concerned.

Chrono can shatter twice, but the combo is long winded and too telegraphed. True shot does the same damage as WW, but rather than a build up, its fired all at once but can be LoSed and easily dodged. Bunker guard is probably one of the best equipped classes to to avoid repeated true shots. Scrapper is D/D ele 2.0. Rev’s sw3 really needs to have a CD or energy cost increase. You’ll never see a berserker, let alone a rifle berserker, so gun flame isn’t an issue. Daredevil survives off of remaining mobile. You can’t properly contest a point as a daredevil, nothing new there. Tempest is eh. Druid is laughable DPS. The only two you’d honestly have issues dealing with are reapers and dragon hunters, but these two classes are classes that your roamer should look out for. If he catches the DH before he reaches the point, that’s basically GG for him since he either wastes all his traps off point or tries to keep running and probably gets rekt. Reaper, like base necro, is still kinda slow. If your roamers stalls him off point, it’ll be forever before he reaches you.

I honestly don’t see THAT much of a DPS increase that’d 100-0 you instantly.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Morwath.9817:

Tiffany.8576:

The guardian’s roots lie within the monk and paragon classes in GW1, which were heavily support-focused. It’s ashame that, at present, rangers can fulfill this role more effectively and playing a bunker/support guard is barely viable since the removal of the minstrel’s amulet as it is difficult to deal with the power creep since HoT with such a low base HP pool.

You’re supposed to pew-pew instead of supporting your team, because thats more healthy and exciting for devs to watch.

Omfg lolololilol
lmao

Saiyan.1704:

lilz shorty.1879:

Saiyan.1704:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

This is your 1v2 Zerk Thief + Mesmer scenario. If you’re a bunk guardian, you’re going to get stun locked and bursted down fast but if you see them coming then your Focus#5, Mace#3, Dodge, Shelter, F3 Stability, SYG, Elite, F3 Stability, Staff #5, will allow you to survive for awhile rather than get 1 shotted. These classes spec don’t burst faster than a zerk mes/thief combo.

Bunk Guardians never had health pool issues prepatch unless they went up against any kind of condi burst build like burn guard.

Guardian has always had health issues since they got rid of trait-line attributes as well as a multitude of other problems. You say these things as if anyone wouldn’t know how to funamentally survive on a guardian. That is not even the argument.

The argument is the power creep has been evident for some time, yet anet still has yet to provide the class with any new utility to help survive/support itself and teammates within 3 years.

The health pool atm is the number one issue as well an a lot of problems with the core issue of guardian.

Lets stop talking generically here. The point of the matter is Bunker Guardian’s health pool. I listed examples prepatch why what you said wasn’t true. Here’s another factual example: Abjured prepatch were known to outrotate Bunker Guardians rather than burst them down on point.

You can say bunk guardians sustain worse post patch compared to prepatch but you can’t say their issue has always been a low health pool… that’s just incorrect.

What are you talking about. I said its one of its issues since they removed the attributes from traitlines. I didnt say always has been at all if you read my sentence. And there is a much bigger underlying factor as opposed to just the health pool or must I re-explain myself again to you?

Firebird.8324:

posthumecaver.6473:

Back to square one.

My Guardian, tankiest build you can have in GW2, with its pathetic 13K HP pool dies to one stunlock in 1s to 2 zerkers.

Tankiest toon/dies/1s…a zerker dies in 1s a tank dies in 1s, uhm what, what is difference then, why should i care to play bunker.

With the specialisation patch you kicked our ….. by removing vitality from the attributes, Guardian was the only class needed the Ministel Amu but you made Druids OP with it and instead of fixing druid you just deleted an amu.

Good job

I am a bunker guard for team Radioactive, I am very experienced with around 50 esls, multiple tournaments, monthlies, etc. It is nearly impossible to play bunker guard right now because the healthpool is too low, you can and will get stunchained and killed with a few hits because of the powercreep since Xpac launch.

You are completely correct, this is a problem that needs to get fixed or all guards have to go DH and do damage, when that happens there is no point in even calling the class “guardian”.

I don’t understand the issue here… HoT is an expansion to the game which means things WILL change. I don’t think upon purchasing HoT there was a written contract somewhere that said “just because bunker guard was viable in vanilla game, it will be so in HoT”. We got a new class and 9 elite specs. Meta will change. Maybe now the bunker role will go to ele/druid or whatever, we’ll have to see.

I don’t get why is this a guardian specific issue…

SlayerSixx.5763:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

Did bunker guard work before HoT? Because if so, then it is a l2p issue. If HoT brought about ANYTHING, its that everyone has much better ways of sustaining/CCing. Aside from skills like gun flame that you’ll probably never see at a high level, damage is more or less the same.

If you get ganked by two guys running what are arguably the highest burst and single target CC classes in the game, what’s the issue? Do you expect to nullify their damage entirely and run around in circles? Back when people cried about minstrel, the commonly repeated counter was “bring two dpsers and focus”. In many cases, it didn’t work because the amulet made you too tanky. Now, though? It finally works again and matches can move forward instead of a guy rofltanking more damage than a worldboss.

If you see a trap DH jump down onto your point and drop all his traps to kill you, you can either concede the point and assist another location OR (just an idea mind you, I haven’t played many tourneys) your +1 roamer keeps tabs on the people who’ve died and watch for possible plays. If your roamer is good, you shouldn’t have an issue getting ganked, but that’s just my nameless self speaking.

Also, about the random interrupts….. As sayian listed, bunker has ENOUGH sources of stunbreak and stab.

Yes bunker guard worked Pre-Hot, but only if you built a comp around it. Most people don’t like it because it forces weird rotations that they are not used to, due to the bruiser meta being so dominant for the last 2 years.

Also don’t lecture me about what a guard has enough of in terms of. Its almost an insult. As if anyone who knows anything about guardian doesn’t know what it has. Those who’ve mastered it and understand high level pvp at its fullest, understand exactly why its difficult to run one, what its lacking, and why its lacking what its lacking.

You saying that a guard has a, b , and c simply because you know what the class has access to is beyond idiotic.

Honestly, it’s not just bunker guardian that are the only the issue. To me, the power creep has hit ALL bunker classes/builds. Usually, if someone is a full blown tank, then they SHOULD be able to survive. Yet, I’ve run into times where the amount of sustained dps on me by a single player was WAY to high for me to handle for no reason what so ever (this usually comes from thieves and mesmers). Also with the major buff to conditions, it is now nearly impossible to sustain one’s self against more than 1 player for almost any amount of time.

I remember, one upon a time, when engineer bunker was a thing (not that kittenty cele rifle turret build). There was a time when, if I ran into a bunker on my own, I knew I needed to abandon the cause of trying to kill them because it wasn’t going to happen unless I had an ally with me, and even then it was difficult for 2 people to kill a person who ONLY focused on survival. Or if I ran the build, I could juggle around two players on my own for a good amount of time before my team mates came to my help.

Now its TOO easy to kill a tank/bunker. All people want to do its see big numbers and players going down. But there are those players that focus on survival, sustaining the team, and ACTUALLY PLAYING THE OBJECTIVE.

These power creeps in dps and conditions have made it more rewarding to just be a glass cannon that could at least kill someone as a result, than to sustain themselves. Since now a tank can’t even really sustain themselves against a single player some times.

Its honestly not a l2p issue. In some 1v1 encounters it may be, but two players of equal skill are fighting and someone can sustain a much higher amount of dps than the other can sustain themselves, there is a major issue there.

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

Did bunker guard work before HoT? Because if so, then it is a l2p issue. If HoT brought about ANYTHING, its that everyone has much better ways of sustaining/CCing. Aside from skills like gun flame that you’ll probably never see at a high level, damage is more or less the same.

If you get ganked by two guys running what are arguably the highest burst and single target CC classes in the game, what’s the issue? Do you expect to nullify their damage entirely and run around in circles? Back when people cried about minstrel, the commonly repeated counter was “bring two dpsers and focus”. In many cases, it didn’t work because the amulet made you too tanky. Now, though? It finally works again and matches can move forward instead of a guy rofltanking more damage than a worldboss.

If you see a trap DH jump down onto your point and drop all his traps to kill you, you can either concede the point and assist another location OR (just an idea mind you, I haven’t played many tourneys) your +1 roamer keeps tabs on the people who’ve died and watch for possible plays. If your roamer is good, you shouldn’t have an issue getting ganked, but that’s just my nameless self speaking.

Also, about the random interrupts….. As sayian listed, bunker has ENOUGH sources of stunbreak and stab.

Yes bunker guard worked Pre-Hot, but only if you built a comp around it. Most people don’t like it because it forces weird rotations that they are not used to, due to the bruiser meta being so dominant for the last 2 years.

Also don’t lecture me about what a guard has enough of in terms of. Its almost an insult. As if anyone who knows anything about guardian doesn’t know what it has. Those who’ve mastered it and understand high level pvp at its fullest, understand exactly why its difficult to run one, what its lacking, and why its lacking what its lacking.

You saying that a guard has a, b , and c simply because you know what the class has access to is beyond idiotic.

Then, for the sake of clarity, what exactly is bunker guard missing? I’ll go ahead and assume its HP since it lacks nothing else, unless you’d be kind enough to elaborate.

If its HP is lacking, a minor buff wouldn’t be out of the question, but naturally, something would have to be done about all of the active sources of damage mitigation and the ample sources of stability/stunbreak. A bunker guard can still hold off a 1v1. If the bunkers gets focused, he dies, but slower than the rest. If the enemy coordinates CC, runs through all of your stab, blinds, blocks, stun breaks, staff ward, RF, etc and manages to down you, they deserve the kill. If you believe that, for some reason, you should still have a chance to survive two well coordinated players without any sort of backup, then you’d be the incredibly idiotic one.

Why build that can’t kill anything 1v1 but stall, who can’t take point away from you if you defend it, shouldn’t be able to survive 1v2?

Because bunker guard brings other methods of support through healing, dedicated res support, peel through staff 5, swiftness, might, stability, etc. If you just want to be fat and hold a point, druid would be a better option IMO.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Because bunker guard brings other methods of support through healing, dedicated res support, peel through staff 5, swiftness, might, stability, etc. If you just want to be fat and hold a point, druid would be a better option IMO.

Druid is better at supporting than Guardian actualy, since it has imho more team support (e.g. heals, blinds, AoE CCs on Glyphs, CCs on pets, optional AoE root with Entangle, optional AoE rez with Spirit)… so not sure if serious.

Heal and aoe CC. That’s basically all it brings vs a bunker guard. Search and rescue utility and trait are in place of much better options. The spirit is immobile and will be insta rekt once the enemy knows what’s going on (imagine an immobile banner that can be killed BEFORE it resses). For pets, you either bring CC OR the heal, not both. Splitting your pet utility between heal AND CC reduces your effectiveness in both areas. Taking aoe heal (sylvan hound + trait) seems to be a more solid choice.

If raw healing was what mattered, shoutbow and staff ele would be meta soooooooooooooo

Not sure if serious.

SlayerSixx.5763:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

Did bunker guard work before HoT? Because if so, then it is a l2p issue. If HoT brought about ANYTHING, its that everyone has much better ways of sustaining/CCing. Aside from skills like gun flame that you’ll probably never see at a high level, damage is more or less the same.

If you get ganked by two guys running what are arguably the highest burst and single target CC classes in the game, what’s the issue? Do you expect to nullify their damage entirely and run around in circles? Back when people cried about minstrel, the commonly repeated counter was “bring two dpsers and focus”. In many cases, it didn’t work because the amulet made you too tanky. Now, though? It finally works again and matches can move forward instead of a guy rofltanking more damage than a worldboss.

If you see a trap DH jump down onto your point and drop all his traps to kill you, you can either concede the point and assist another location OR (just an idea mind you, I haven’t played many tourneys) your +1 roamer keeps tabs on the people who’ve died and watch for possible plays. If your roamer is good, you shouldn’t have an issue getting ganked, but that’s just my nameless self speaking.

Also, about the random interrupts….. As sayian listed, bunker has ENOUGH sources of stunbreak and stab.

Yes bunker guard worked Pre-Hot, but only if you built a comp around it. Most people don’t like it because it forces weird rotations that they are not used to, due to the bruiser meta being so dominant for the last 2 years.

Also don’t lecture me about what a guard has enough of in terms of. Its almost an insult. As if anyone who knows anything about guardian doesn’t know what it has. Those who’ve mastered it and understand high level pvp at its fullest, understand exactly why its difficult to run one, what its lacking, and why its lacking what its lacking.

You saying that a guard has a, b , and c simply because you know what the class has access to is beyond idiotic.

Then, for the sake of clarity, what exactly is bunker guard missing? I’ll go ahead and assume its HP since it lacks nothing else, unless you’d be kind enough to elaborate.

If its HP is lacking, a minor buff wouldn’t be out of the question, but naturally, something would have to be done about all of the active sources of damage mitigation and the ample sources of stability/stunbreak. A bunker guard can still hold off a 1v1. If the bunkers gets focused, he dies, but slower than the rest. If the enemy coordinates CC, runs through all of your stab, blinds, blocks, stun breaks, staff ward, RF, etc and manages to down you, they deserve the kill. If you believe that, for some reason, you should still have a chance to survive two well coordinated players without any sort of backup, then you’d be the incredibly idiotic one.

I’ve read your posts and clearly you don’t understand the heart of this issue whatsoever. Guardian by it’s NAME is supposed to have a guard/support aspect to it in order to support people, most of its traits and abilities are purely for support. The problem is, the ENTIRE GURADIAN ASPECT OF GUARDIAN is completely worthless and nonviable right now.

Guardians WILL DIE by going NEAR a point, Guardians WILL DIE when trying to rez ANYONE. Guardians will die when standing close enough to allies to support them with shouts! As a bunker guard, you can’t bunker, you can’t support, you can’t rez because everything has way too many stuns+damage+chill+vuln etc. for you to survive long enough to be useful.

As it stands right now, if a Guardian is NOT a DH it is a liability and will work AGAINST your team. In order to fix this Guardians NEED MORE VITALITY.

I haven’t tired bunker since HoT, but pre-HoT I had few issues with my bunker. I was running a Shattered Aegis build and was quite successful in holding points.
I’ll have to revisit it now that we have HoT and see if it’s still an option.

However I do agree that the guardian health pool is a bit on the light side. A small buff to that would not be out of order.

Morwath.9817:

Why build that can’t kill anything 1v1 but stall, who can’t take point away from you if you defend it, shouldn’t be able to survive 1v2?

Its a play style. I use to do it a lot where I would just decap the enemies’ point and just hold it on my own. This forces your opponents to waste 2-3 players for just 1 of your players. Taking a lot of pressure off the rest of your team. A bunker class seems pointless, but it can do amazing things for your team that don’t show up on the score sheet.

It is also good if a lot of enemies are attacking a single point, so you can hold them off for a long amount of time thus depriving them of points.

Honestly, PvP isn’t just about killing people. The overall objective always trumps kills (to a certain extent). But with the way the game works now everyone just seems to be better off being a glass cannon and killing people off points instead of being smart about the way they play.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Heal and aoe CC. That’s basically all it brings vs a bunker guard. Search and rescue utility and trait are in place of much better options. The spirit is immobile and will be insta rekt once the enemy knows what’s going on (imagine an immobile banner that can be killed BEFORE it resses). For pets, you either bring CC OR the heal, not both. Splitting your pet utility between heal AND CC reduces your effectiveness in both areas. Taking aoe heal (sylvan hound + trait) seems to be a more solid choice.

If raw healing was what mattered, shoutbow and staff ele would be meta soooooooooooooo

Not sure if serious.

You know that e.g. Fearing enemy is more effective than low Heal, since it prevents people from dealing damage, stomping, rezzing and so on? And even if you decide to run Bear and Sylvan Hound, you still can use their abilities to taunt if you pick Beastmaster?

About SoN, you’ve 1,5s to target it and kill it prevent rez… but thats good we agree that Spirits in common need to have their Effect on Death trigger restored.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Then, for the sake of clarity, what exactly is bunker guard missing? I’ll go ahead and assume its HP since it lacks nothing else, unless you’d be kind enough to elaborate.

If its HP is lacking, a minor buff wouldn’t be out of the question, but naturally, something would have to be done about all of the active sources of damage mitigation and the ample sources of stability/stunbreak. A bunker guard can still hold off a 1v1. If the bunkers gets focused, he dies, but slower than the rest. If the enemy coordinates CC, runs through all of your stab, blinds, blocks, stun breaks, staff ward, RF, etc and manages to down you, they deserve the kill. If you believe that, for some reason, you should still have a chance to survive two well coordinated players without any sort of backup, then you’d be the incredibly idiotic one.

If you are trying to hold nodes 1v1 as a bunk guard it means you’re in the wrong place doing the wrong thing. The whole point of taking a bunk guard is for support in teamfights, doing 1v1s with it is wasting the bunker’s team’s time and completely defeating the point of a bunker since bruisers are far better and more efficient at 1v1s.

As for teamfights, the other team doesn’t need to coordinate CC when a single daze+ambient AoE that is present in all teamfights will do the work for us.

The whole point of asking for a HP buff is so that it requires some level of effort to kill bunks since right now bunk guards lack the raw survivability to make them worth taking over a bruiser.

Firebird.8324:

SlayerSixx.5763:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

lilz shorty.1879:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Guardian, regardless of build, sustains off of his abilities. If you got stealth ganked, there’s not really much that can be done. If you got ganked by two people you saw coming, that’s a l2p issue.

It’s not a L2p issue at all. The health pool is and has been to low for the class. Anet refuses to tackle the core issues with guardian with the multitude of patches that have hit.

You can get stunlocked or randomly interrupted so much now that we can get one shot even just by a DPS DH. It is beyond dumb and has never been so bad.

Did bunker guard work before HoT? Because if so, then it is a l2p issue. If HoT brought about ANYTHING, its that everyone has much better ways of sustaining/CCing. Aside from skills like gun flame that you’ll probably never see at a high level, damage is more or less the same.

If you get ganked by two guys running what are arguably the highest burst and single target CC classes in the game, what’s the issue? Do you expect to nullify their damage entirely and run around in circles? Back when people cried about minstrel, the commonly repeated counter was “bring two dpsers and focus”. In many cases, it didn’t work because the amulet made you too tanky. Now, though? It finally works again and matches can move forward instead of a guy rofltanking more damage than a worldboss.

If you see a trap DH jump down onto your point and drop all his traps to kill you, you can either concede the point and assist another location OR (just an idea mind you, I haven’t played many tourneys) your +1 roamer keeps tabs on the people who’ve died and watch for possible plays. If your roamer is good, you shouldn’t have an issue getting ganked, but that’s just my nameless self speaking.

Also, about the random interrupts….. As sayian listed, bunker has ENOUGH sources of stunbreak and stab.

Yes bunker guard worked Pre-Hot, but only if you built a comp around it. Most people don’t like it because it forces weird rotations that they are not used to, due to the bruiser meta being so dominant for the last 2 years.

Also don’t lecture me about what a guard has enough of in terms of. Its almost an insult. As if anyone who knows anything about guardian doesn’t know what it has. Those who’ve mastered it and understand high level pvp at its fullest, understand exactly why its difficult to run one, what its lacking, and why its lacking what its lacking.

You saying that a guard has a, b , and c simply because you know what the class has access to is beyond idiotic.

Then, for the sake of clarity, what exactly is bunker guard missing? I’ll go ahead and assume its HP since it lacks nothing else, unless you’d be kind enough to elaborate.

If its HP is lacking, a minor buff wouldn’t be out of the question, but naturally, something would have to be done about all of the active sources of damage mitigation and the ample sources of stability/stunbreak. A bunker guard can still hold off a 1v1. If the bunkers gets focused, he dies, but slower than the rest. If the enemy coordinates CC, runs through all of your stab, blinds, blocks, stun breaks, staff ward, RF, etc and manages to down you, they deserve the kill. If you believe that, for some reason, you should still have a chance to survive two well coordinated players without any sort of backup, then you’d be the incredibly idiotic one.

I’ve read your posts and clearly you don’t understand the heart of this issue whatsoever. Guardian by it’s NAME is supposed to have a guard/support aspect to it in order to support people, most of its traits and abilities are purely for support. The problem is, the ENTIRE GURADIAN ASPECT OF GUARDIAN is completely worthless and nonviable right now.

Guardians WILL DIE by going NEAR a point, Guardians WILL DIE when trying to rez ANYONE. Guardians will die when standing close enough to allies to support them with shouts! As a bunker guard, you can’t bunker, you can’t support, you can’t rez because everything has way too many stuns+damage+chill+vuln etc. for you to survive long enough to be useful.

As it stands right now, if a Guardian is NOT a DH it is a liability and will work AGAINST your team. In order to fix this Guardians NEED MORE VITALITY.

Warrior by its name is meant be in the middle of battle, beating the crap out of everything, but that’s obviously not the case. Mesmer, by its name, is meant to confuse targets, but that’s obviously not the case. What are dragon hunters doing fighting charr in kyhlo? They should be off in maguuma chasing after mordy. Berserkers should mindless rage beasts not even under the control of the player using them. Reapers should be immortal vampires, continuously feeding off of their enemies.

Ridiculous, arbitrary comment is ridiculous.

Wanna res your ally? Have your allies stall the enemy as you res. You think its fair and balanced to be able to collapse on top of your ally and res them against 2 or 3 people’s pressure? You wanna share boons? Watch out for the nearby necro’s boon corrupt. Wanna hold the point against the enemy DH? Get your roamer to pressure him before he reaches the point.

You can’t honestly have been playing in tourneys for this long and still be this oblivious to such obvious counters.

Morwath.9817:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Heal and aoe CC. That’s basically all it brings vs a bunker guard. Search and rescue utility and trait are in place of much better options. The spirit is immobile and will be insta rekt once the enemy knows what’s going on (imagine an immobile banner that can be killed BEFORE it resses). For pets, you either bring CC OR the heal, not both. Splitting your pet utility between heal AND CC reduces your effectiveness in both areas. Taking aoe heal (sylvan hound + trait) seems to be a more solid choice.

If raw healing was what mattered, shoutbow and staff ele would be meta soooooooooooooo

Not sure if serious.

You know that e.g. Fearing enemy is more effective than low Heal, since it prevents people from dealing damage, stomping, rezzing and so on? And even if you decide to run Bear and Sylvan Hound, you still can use their abilities to taunt if you pick Beastmaster?

About SoN, you’ve 1,5s to target it and kill it prevent rez…

The burst heals helps you build CA which helps you heal and aoe daze even more.

You guys are complaining that you get insta downed as a bunker. You’re telling me you can’t insta down a summon the same way?

Crinn.7864:

SlayerSixx.5763:

Then, for the sake of clarity, what exactly is bunker guard missing? I’ll go ahead and assume its HP since it lacks nothing else, unless you’d be kind enough to elaborate.

If its HP is lacking, a minor buff wouldn’t be out of the question, but naturally, something would have to be done about all of the active sources of damage mitigation and the ample sources of stability/stunbreak. A bunker guard can still hold off a 1v1. If the bunkers gets focused, he dies, but slower than the rest. If the enemy coordinates CC, runs through all of your stab, blinds, blocks, stun breaks, staff ward, RF, etc and manages to down you, they deserve the kill. If you believe that, for some reason, you should still have a chance to survive two well coordinated players without any sort of backup, then you’d be the incredibly idiotic one.

If you are trying to hold nodes 1v1 as a bunk guard it means you’re in the wrong place doing the wrong thing. The whole point of taking a bunk guard is for support in teamfights, doing 1v1s with it is wasting the bunker’s team’s time and completely defeating the point of a bunker since bruisers are far better and more efficient at 1v1s.

As for teamfights, the other team doesn’t need to coordinate CC when a single daze+ambient AoE that is present in all teamfights will do the work for us.

The whole point of asking for a HP buff is so that it requires some level of effort to kill bunks since right now bunk guards lack the raw survivability to make them worth taking over a bruiser.

If you find it to be too much of a task to stay in melee, in the middle of all of the aoe, how about changing your build? The very definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Instead of crying to anet for a buff, how about you change the way you play?

guards are total trash at bunking right now. cele druids and eles are much better. even reapers, and they bring so much more utility.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Wanna res your ally? Have your allies stall the enemy as you res. You think its fair and balanced to be able to collapse on top of your ally and res them against 2 or 3 people’s pressure?

If my team is stalling the enemy for a rez then there is no need for a bunker since even a zerker would be just as good at rezzzing.

The whole point of having bunkers for rezzing is so they can tank the cleave.