Guild Wars 2

Okay so i know there is a lot of discussions about thief’s and mesmers and i can totally understand that.
1: as you can see in my screenshot, i was having a duel with a elementalist, it was very balanced and we both used all our skills and used everything we got. We was fighting for i would guess 1-2 minute, then all of a sudden all my HP goes down and im dead (2 secounds) . WTF happend? Ohh, a thief.

This scenario is okay with me, the thief is a glasscanon him self and uses stealth to get the enemy down.

But its not in a proper balance, i would say it was ok if a thief did that amout of damage on me if I had 50K HP.

I think i have around 25k HP, witch means that if two thief’s jumped me and only used one skill, "second skill with dagger (heart stopper?) 4500hp/hit. and they can use it 4 times in a row. 4500hp x 4hits x 2 thief’s = 36000 in 2 or 3 secound’s. How would i react to that? Use my deathshroud…..? still would be dead. This damage must be to hight if you have like 2-3 seconds to react before you are dead.

It is ok i a class have a very high damage output, but not x4, and not when there is no way to counter that attack.

2: Mesmers omfg, how many illusions, mirrors, reflections and stuff can they have. As a necro i use “Well of suffering” witch kills alot of there minions, but then they just spawn new ones, with like 0,5 reuse time?
Ok: they are killable, but as for my necro I have put over 300hours in to learning this class, and what skills to use and when to use them. Then i get killed by a pvp lvl1 mesmer. How can you think that this is balanced.

3: I have played alot of MMORPGS and for me there are basically two ways to define a good mmorpg. PVP, and teamplay (dungeon/pvp/siege)
With the current build, I cant sPVP in Gw2 it just kitten es me off because of the inbalance. Im cool with having classes do large amount of damage, but the other class has to be able to counter that attack/dmg output. This is not the case in Gw2 right now.
Dungeons: Yeah… do i need to say more. Everyone is asking for mesmer, warrior…. I like the way guildwars2 removed all the specific roles in team playing. But then, if you do one or two classes over powered. Why would anyone want a class that has lower dps with nothing special to add to the group.

4: I tryed playing a thief for a few pvp matches and i did not even read the description on the traits. I get the same amout of points on my thief as on my necromancer. Then what is defining the pvp level? 300hours gameplay vs 1hour?

5: As for the necro, the down skills on this character is a joke. The fear skill works one out of ten. Why cant we summon 5 fleash golams that are defending us, and the all use charge?

6: I love they way that you made Heart of the mist, with pvp gear and all of that. Everone have equal stats on there armor. I think its a shame because it is so well done and then the unbalance between classes ruin it all.

Please, please do something about this unbalance. I know im not the only one feeling this way. I really love this game, one of the best mmorpgs i have played…. But the unbalance is so lame that i cant play it, i just get mad and sad.
With some small tweaks, this would be awsome.

I’m not going to say thieves and mesmers are overpowered, but I do feel they have poor class design. Relying on stealth + gibbing + AI for pvp isn’t fun and allows bad players to be moderately successful which can be frustrating.

Remove AI & RNGs from the game.

Results: Healthier pvp experience.

Who the hell while seeing thief going into stealth stays in place or rush into him to get backstabbed and then insta Hs’ed. Seriously whats the point ?

And I daubt You were took down in 2s period. and second of all IF a thief got you down in that time Your:
a) bad
b) totaly glass canon with no hp&toughness at all.

Also by the picture There is no clear sign of thief using Cnd or Steal ( for stealth ) so you must have been close to crowd or it was D/P thief using #5/#2 for stealth. Either way it’s your fault cause you did not pay enough attention to surroundings.

Im running full glass cannon ranger and never ( after playing thief for a while ) got 1-2 shot. As soon as i see thief running down the hill my pet goes on him, if he stealth just run away wating as he gets off stealth.

Your Necro… Use staff skills to slow thief down – frost condi so his range for HS will be vvery low. use Dodge first of all, lol.

Thief will burn trought HS his initiative really fast and then just die with no options left. If thief uses all his HS on you it means either that he is noob or You are because you can’t counter him by dodge/fear/DS/or any utilities You have.

Simple

Somehow the stealth on mesmers is totally ok, they can stealth every 3s and can’t one-shot you while invisible, the stealth on thieves on the other hand…..

Thief is the real culprit behind bunkering, people got tired of being one-shooted by an invisible enemy, so they started bringing stun breaker, more toughness and play more defensive.

Mesmers give a far fight , lose or win depends on skill, you can dodge their burst most times and negate most of their dmg..thieves instead on top of broken mechanic they’ve got the two most OP elites in the game – dagger storm and Thieves’guild, the latter is how every elite should be, while invisible the thief summon 2 more thieves and each one unload around 7k dmg on you…truly absurd

No he did not 2 shoot me, and i would say im a decent pvp player. The thing with this is that everying thing is like on steroids. Its to fast to be able to handle. Even if i used a Bot to press the right commands it would probebly be dead.
To show the the screenshot was not only the thief damage, but also how low the damage on elementalist was compared to the thief over such a long time.

Weak backstab and died with 2hs…there’s no way to use 2 hearthseekers while in stealth, he went visible after backstab so we have 2 options here..

He did backstab, he waited 3 secs of revealed buff, he went stealth again (Hide in shadows probably) and you got 1hs from stealth and 1 hs with him already visible…so backstab (4k lol) ->3 seconds + hide in shadows cast time->1 hs from stealth->1hs visible…a total of around 5 secs minimum, really long time to react.

He backstabbed and just used 2 hs while visible…3 seconds but with 9k hs dmg easily avoidable since everyone pops up a defensive skill after being backstabbed, or just dodges away…

In both examples it was totally counterable…and really far from being a oneshot..like 100nades for example..

PS. It’s way easier to counter a single target skill like hs than an aoe from a dps ele…just saying..

There are issues with people who say thieves are bad in high tier pvp….Lets put it this way you can have a team of 5 or even 3 thieves and two something else whatever… and they can run the full insta kill spec… And contribute more to their team than any fully supported spec of any profession? Why? Because you can’t fight back if you are dead… 2thieves vs 2 anything else is a night mare… People that say thieves are a joke in high tier pvp are delusional and most likely play thieves.

Ohwell, if you dont want to get the point we can argue all night. I can tell you that a color is green, and you could answer me that its not blue… we are both right but you are not understanding what Im trying to say.

All my years playing mmorps ive heard that Guildwars 1 was a pvp focused game. I cant say that about Gw2, even if that is not a bad ting i just think that there are so many old games that managed to get the balance better then Gw2 right now.

Batim.9075:

Ohwell, if you dont want to get the point we can argue all night. I can tell you that a color is green, and you could answer me the its not blue… we are both right but you are not understanding what Im trying to say.

All my years playing mmorps ive heard that Guildwars 1 was a pvp focused game. I cant say that about Gw2, even if that is not a bad ting i just think that there are so many old games that managed to get the balance better then Gw2 right now.

Hopefully it gets there… But there are glaring polarities right now (thieves, d/d eles, trap rangers) Hell even some Mesmer builds are now the only viable ones because ANet destroyed stuff for them AGAIN.

jportell.2197:

There are issues with people who say thieves are bad in high tier pvp….Lets put it this way you can have a team of 5 or even 3 thieves and two something else whatever… and they can run the full insta kill spec… And contribute more to their team than any fully supported spec of any profession? Why? Because you can’t fight back if you are dead… 2thieves vs 2 anything else is a night mare… People that say thieves are a joke in high tier pvp are delusional and most likely play thieves.

a team with 3 bs thieves lol? I think you’re confusing with eles…actually a decent bunker guardian or ele can handle even 3 glass thieves at once (Already happened sometimes in zergjoin, because you know, noone rolls 3 glass thieves in the same team, unless they just want to suicide), vs 2 you don’t even need your 6 (Talking bout guardian)…you can just block, evade and knockback them…and once they miss the combo they can do pretty much nothing for 45 secs steal cd (Yeah they can c&d and bs you, but if someone goes stealth with c&d you know it’s time for aegis up)…or you can spec retaliation and let them kill themselves..and yes thief is actually worse than eles, guardians, mesmers and even rangers in tpvp right now…there’s a reason if i play mesmer rather than thief (Guardian is just boring)…mesmer brings much much more team support and can kill classes that a thief just can’t (If they have a proper working brain)…like eles or rangers..

Archaon.6245:

jportell.2197:

There are issues with people who say thieves are bad in high tier pvp….Lets put it this way you can have a team of 5 or even 3 thieves and two something else whatever… and they can run the full insta kill spec… And contribute more to their team than any fully supported spec of any profession? Why? Because you can’t fight back if you are dead… 2thieves vs 2 anything else is a night mare… People that say thieves are a joke in high tier pvp are delusional and most likely play thieves.

a team with 3 thieves lol? I think you’re confusing with eles…actually a decent bunker guardian or ele can handle even 3 glass thieves at once, vs 2 you don’t even need your 6 (Talking bout guardian)…you can just block, evade and knockback them…and once they miss the combo they can do pretty much nothing for 45 secs…or you can spec retaliation and let them kill themselves..

So you have the one bunker guard on your team… And yes it was 3 thieves and yes that team destroyed us.. Why because they had 2 other bunker specs… So say the bunkers are hashing it out here comes one of the 3 thieves kitten he is at half health oh hey steal is of CD lemme just handle this mug+cnd+bs+hs haste combo.. yup he’s dead okay I’m off to go insta kill one of the non glass non bunker balanced builds that is trying to back cap temple or altar…. OH wait the other thief on my team already handled it. Yes this is a glaring issue I don’t care how you try to defend it…

jportell.2197:

Archaon.6245:

jportell.2197:

There are issues with people who say thieves are bad in high tier pvp….Lets put it this way you can have a team of 5 or even 3 thieves and two something else whatever… and they can run the full insta kill spec… And contribute more to their team than any fully supported spec of any profession? Why? Because you can’t fight back if you are dead… 2thieves vs 2 anything else is a night mare… People that say thieves are a joke in high tier pvp are delusional and most likely play thieves.

a team with 3 thieves lol? I think you’re confusing with eles…actually a decent bunker guardian or ele can handle even 3 glass thieves at once, vs 2 you don’t even need your 6 (Talking bout guardian)…you can just block, evade and knockback them…and once they miss the combo they can do pretty much nothing for 45 secs…or you can spec retaliation and let them kill themselves..

So you have the one bunker guard on your team… And yes it was 3 thieves and yes that team destroyed us.. Why because they had 2 other bunker specs… So say the bunkers are hashing it out here comes one of the 3 thieves kitten he is at half health oh hey steal is of CD lemme just handle this mug+cnd+bs+hs haste combo.. yup he’s dead okay I’m off to go insta kill one of the non glass non bunker balanced builds that is trying to back cap temple or altar…. OH wait the other thief on my team already handled it. Yes this is a glaring issue I don’t care how you try to defend it…

If those thieves went all on the bunker (No way to down him if not) and since thieves have only single target skills i just wonder where the rest of the team was…..“Oh they downed our guardian and they have no stability and all we need is an aoe on him to prevent them from stomping so we can ress…or just continue aoe\spam conditions and melt them down….” “Uhmmm no! Let’s go picknick instead, then let’s rush to forums to whine” lol

And just another ps…if glass thief is visible he’s dead…if glass thief is invisible he can’t cap…if glass thief downs someone 90% of the times he can’t stomp him also….save those tips and thank me later..

So reading the OPs post, you spent 1-2 minutes fighting an ele probably even a bunker ele. As you should of known 30 seconds in that you are going to end the fight right now or that you are going to keep fighting and someone else from the other team is going to rotate/roam over and gib you. It really didn’t have to be a thief since you said you popped all your cooldowns just to fight 1 ele. You could of been 100 bladed down or even 100 naded down. The thing is the ele distracted you, and the thief finished you off which is the sole purpose of his class as the meta stands right now.

Things you could of done better:
1) Don’t blow all your cooldowns on an “epic” 1v1 fight with a bunker ele because sooner or later your 1v1 fight will turn into a not so “epic” 1v2 fight against you.
2) Use your back camera bind to know who is coming behind you even when you are fighting the ele you should always check who is coming into the point you are at when fighting. Situational awareness is what separates the better players from others
3) Position yourself so you don’t get stabbed. Get on a ledge get on some sort terrain to fight the ele and also defend yourself from a gank. Use ranged Necro has 1200 range, it is good. Also that flesh wurm teleport utility is your get out of jail free card, try using it.
4) Use your damage mitigators plague form and death shroud to absorb the backstab and heartseekers, you need to precast but in order to precast you should have known that the thief was there in the first place, again situational awareness.
5) Improve your reaction time, this game is not forgiving like other mmos you need to have twitch and the proper conditioning to instantly pop death shroud or to stun break burst. The only way to improve it is to keep on getting bursted by classes until you have it down.

Archaon.6245:

jportell.2197:

Archaon.6245:

jportell.2197:

There are issues with people who say thieves are bad in high tier pvp….Lets put it this way you can have a team of 5 or even 3 thieves and two something else whatever… and they can run the full insta kill spec… And contribute more to their team than any fully supported spec of any profession? Why? Because you can’t fight back if you are dead… 2thieves vs 2 anything else is a night mare… People that say thieves are a joke in high tier pvp are delusional and most likely play thieves.

a team with 3 thieves lol? I think you’re confusing with eles…actually a decent bunker guardian or ele can handle even 3 glass thieves at once, vs 2 you don’t even need your 6 (Talking bout guardian)…you can just block, evade and knockback them…and once they miss the combo they can do pretty much nothing for 45 secs…or you can spec retaliation and let them kill themselves..

So you have the one bunker guard on your team… And yes it was 3 thieves and yes that team destroyed us.. Why because they had 2 other bunker specs… So say the bunkers are hashing it out here comes one of the 3 thieves kitten he is at half health oh hey steal is of CD lemme just handle this mug+cnd+bs+hs haste combo.. yup he’s dead okay I’m off to go insta kill one of the non glass non bunker balanced builds that is trying to back cap temple or altar…. OH wait the other thief on my team already handled it. Yes this is a glaring issue I don’t care how you try to defend it…

If those thieves went all on the bunker (No way to down him if not) and since thieves have only single target skills i just wonder where the rest of the team was…..“Oh they downed our guardian and they have no stability and all we need is an aoe on him to prevent them from stomping so we can ress…or just continue aoe\spam conditions and melt them down….” “Uhmmm no! Let’s go picknick instead, then let’s rush to forums to whine” lol

Play a thief I’m guessing? I have not once made a single attack at you but buddy you deserve it seriously… Yes this is a glaring issue like it or not…. And it has already been shown that one hasted thief can still melt through a bunker guardians defenses in seconds flat. And its kinda hard to go help your team mate if you are being held up by one of the other thieves (by that I mean killed coming right out of your gate.) A team with 3 insta kill thieves and two bunkers is far more deadly than any team of multiple bunkers and balanced specs.

Glass thieves can cap points if they have the people killed around them… And lets say you go to help your bunker guard and the other teams other thief comes to help out two… Then you have one bunker one balanced against one bunker one glass… The glass will take you down and stomp you especially if the bunker is still tied up by the other bunker… Or the bunker will try to res you and this will then become a bunker/glass combo vs a bunker that is not fighting back.. How fast do bunkers last when they don’t fight back? Yeah thought so.

In your described scenario you didn’t factor in the other remaining players, they are suppose to come for support.

jportell.2197:

Play a thief I’m guessing? I have not once made a single attack at you but buddy you deserve it seriously… Yes this is a glaring issue like it or not…. And it has already been shown that one hasted thief can still melt through a bunker guardians defenses in seconds flat. And its kinda hard to go help your team mate if you are being held up by one of the other thieves (by that I mean killed coming right out of your gate.) A team with 3 insta kill thieves and two bunkers is far more deadly than any team of multiple bunkers and balanced specs.

As i said before, try to read before posting, i stopped playing thief in tpvp cause mesmer brings much much more to the team….an hasted thief can melt only through a brain dead bunker guardian, and you have not to use a single skill, cause pretty much everything you would press could ruin a backstab combo…i don’t know one single bunker guardian who would go down vs a backstab thief, no way…maybe vs a condition one on the long run, but a bunker guardian just laughs at glass thieves, even at two of them…and again, a thief can istant gib only other glass cannons…if they managed to oneshot everyone in your team, including your bunker…well, believe me…time to change team…

kirito.4138:

In your described scenario you didn’t factor in the other remaining players, they are suppose to come for support.

And by the time they get there? Not everyone is as fast as a thief or a d/d ele or a GS bulls rush warrior. What if its at the 8:30 mark and the buff needs to be grabbed… There are glaring issues here. And before people go off on how bunkers should handle this or that extremely well the biggest reason for bunkers is BS thieves.

Archaon.6245:

jportell.2197:

Play a thief I’m guessing? I have not once made a single attack at you but buddy you deserve it seriously… Yes this is a glaring issue like it or not…. And it has already been shown that one hasted thief can still melt through a bunker guardians defenses in seconds flat. And its kinda hard to go help your team mate if you are being held up by one of the other thieves (by that I mean killed coming right out of your gate.) A team with 3 insta kill thieves and two bunkers is far more deadly than any team of multiple bunkers and balanced specs.

As i said before, try to read before posting, i stopped playing thief in tpvp cause mesmer brings much much more to the team….an hasted thief can melt only through a brain dead bunker guardian, and you have not to use a single skill, cause pretty much everything you would press could ruin a backstab combo…i don’t know one single bunker guardian who would go down vs a backstab thief, no way…maybe vs a condition one on the long run, but a bunker guardian just laughs at glass thieves, even at two of them…and again, a thief can istant gib only other glass cannons…if they managed to oneshot everyone in your team, including your bunker…well, believe me…time to change team…

If this bunker is already tied up with the other bunker then yes it can and will happen. The team composition we ran was a d/d ele bunker guard, bunker ranger, minion necro, and a shatter mes… the opposing team was 3 thieves a bunker guard and one ele… The thieves instantly melted through the balanced specs we had and were able to gang up on the bunker guard and after the ranger.. .I don’t care how you say it thieves are not fun to play against and the 3 of them bring more to a team in terms of pure deadliness this is not balance.

jportell.2197:

Archaon.6245:

jportell.2197:

Play a thief I’m guessing? I have not once made a single attack at you but buddy you deserve it seriously… Yes this is a glaring issue like it or not…. And it has already been shown that one hasted thief can still melt through a bunker guardians defenses in seconds flat. And its kinda hard to go help your team mate if you are being held up by one of the other thieves (by that I mean killed coming right out of your gate.) A team with 3 insta kill thieves and two bunkers is far more deadly than any team of multiple bunkers and balanced specs.

As i said before, try to read before posting, i stopped playing thief in tpvp cause mesmer brings much much more to the team….an hasted thief can melt only through a brain dead bunker guardian, and you have not to use a single skill, cause pretty much everything you would press could ruin a backstab combo…i don’t know one single bunker guardian who would go down vs a backstab thief, no way…maybe vs a condition one on the long run, but a bunker guardian just laughs at glass thieves, even at two of them…and again, a thief can istant gib only other glass cannons…if they managed to oneshot everyone in your team, including your bunker…well, believe me…time to change team…

If this bunker is already tied up with the other bunker then yes it can and will happen. The team composition we ran was a d/d ele bunker guard, bunker ranger, minion necro, and a shatter mes… the opposing team was 3 thieves a bunker guard and one ele… The thieves instantly melted through the balanced specs we had and were able to gang up on the bunker guard and after the ranger.. .I don’t care how you say it thieves are not fun to play against and the 3 of them bring more to a team in terms of pure deadliness this is not balance.

3 bunkers, a minion necro and a mesmer…….dps? How can you do something with 3 no dmg bunkers (If d\d valkyrie let’s say low dmg), 1 condition i suppose (Wtf minions) necro and a shatter mesmer? The only one with dmg here is the mesmer, and mesmer is already cosidered more support than dps…how can you possibly manage to kill something with that setup? Not jocking man, now i understand how you lost vs a team running 3 thieves…even if your ele was dps it wouldn’t be enough…and for god’s sake drop minions already u.u

So reading the OPs post, you spent 1-2 minutes fighting an ele probably even a bunker ele. As you should of known 30 seconds in that you are going to end the fight right now or that you are going to keep fighting and someone else from the other team is going to rotate/roam over and gib you. It really didn’t have to be a thief since you said you popped all your cooldowns just to fight 1 ele. You could of been 100 bladed down or even 100 naded down. The thing is the ele distracted you, and the thief finished you off which is the sole purpose of his class as the meta stands right now.

I agreed with that, this was one example thats shows 2 hits:9k+ dmg (it does not show time stamp or casting time unfortunately) But the point is that I had a long on going fight with the elemenatlist witch i suppose did his best to bring me down. He used all his skill’s, and also his experience as a pvper. Then a Thief comes in to the fight doing more damage on two hits than anything the elemenatlist was able to do in 1-2 minutes. 1 -2 minutes vs 1-2 seconds, and you still dont get to point here?
I dont know in how many ways I can explain this.

Things you could of done better:
1) Don’t blow all your cooldowns on an “epic” 1v1 fight with a bunker ele because sooner or later your 1v1 fight will turn into a not so “epic” 1v2 fight against you.
This was a fair 1v1 in a none populated part of the map (i thought)
2) Use your back camera bind to know who is coming behind you even when you are fighting the ele you should always check who is coming into the point you are at when fighting. Situational awareness is what separates the better players from others. * (Im using this, but im more focus on what skills the player Im fighting is using, than i constant treat from thiefs.)*
3) Position yourself so you don’t get stabbed. Get on a ledge get on some sort terrain to fight the ele and also defend yourself from a gank. Use ranged Necro has 1200 range, it is good. Also that flesh wurm teleport utility is your get out of jail free card, try using it. (I dont what to dedicate one out of 4 skill slots only to be able to avoid one or two hits from a thief)
4) Use your damage mitigators plague form and death shroud to absorb the backstab and heartseekers, you need to precast but in order to precast you should have known that the thief was there in the first place, again situational awareness. (As described above, and how can you know that a thief is there? should i always place marks around me?)
5) Improve your reaction time, this game is not forgiving like other mmos you need to have twitch and the proper conditioning to instantly pop death shroud or to stun break burst. The only way to improve it is to keep on getting bursted by classes until you have it down. (There are so many examples where they got this right, my toughs are that this is your first mmorps and you are playing a thief.)

Yup btw if you fight for more than 20-30 secs max without getting something (Aka going alone vs a bunker without backup) you have 2 choices here…

Being facerolled by the first roamer as soon as that bunker gets bored of you and calls for backup.

Just leave and go somewhere else actually helping your team instead of wasting your time trying to 1vs1 a bunker that will never go down (Even if you are full dps)

This is not arehundel’s imaginary world (Well you know wvsw, nough said), there are actually some basic rules like:

Never 1vs1 bunkers if they already got the point, even if you are an heavy and skilled cond dmg spec it will be long and a roamer will be on his way as soon as the bunker spots a condition guy coming, and if you can’t down him before backup arrives you’re dead.

Never forget that there are 4 other players around and not the only one you’re fighting.

Always remember that premades usually have ts, it’s not zergjoin where everyone runs everywhere without a clue…ppl actually talk on ts, they know what are you doing and where…and you should use ts and talk with mates too.

If you face an 1vs1 remember that

Glass wins vs Glass (Far West duels…the first who shots hitting wins)
Bunker wins vs Glass (For win i mean he can hold the point pretty much forever)
Glass 50% wins vs Condition (Depends on class and build..i leave it as a 50\50)
Condition 50% wins vs Bunker (On the long run, most times not worth it)

probably forgot to mention many others..

Archaon.6245:

This is not arehundel’s imaginary world (Well you know wvsw, nough said), there are actually some basic rules like:

I agree with the post but, just to clarify, what’s wrong with playing wvw? Ah wait are you one of those pro elitists who specify in every post they write on this forum they play tpvp only? Lol @ zergjoins (meh, that’s kinda true but the sense of superiority in your post is quite childish anyway).
Spvp in this game is boring and repetitive, and tbh wvw is usually more enjoyable. Ofc the balance is even worse there.
That said i think thieves are kinda balanced in spvp, even more so in tpvp. Their class design remains bad tho.

Fjandi.2516:

I agree with the post but, just to clarify, what’s wrong with playing wvw?

Nothing wrong with playing wvsw…but posting bs in the spvp forum coming from a totally different enviroment (WvsW has pve skills, gear, levels, gold and so on…) claiming you’re so pro and stuff while maybe you’re just zerging with your whole guild all the time…this is just lol…i think i can find lots of good bunker guardians who can stand vs 3 glass thieves (Not for a long time, but at least negating all the 3 bursts for sure as i already did manytimes in zerg..uhm..hotjoin) and this smart one comes from nowhere every single time without knowing wtf ppl are talking about…i don’t go on wvsw forum trying to troll ppl and stuff….and others should do the same. Spvp forum is for spvp not wvsw.

Regarding hotjoin i call it zergjoin or worse…and i don’t really see a reason for not doing so, we all know how crap hot join is…if i choose to go to university and study and another one just go disco and have fun he can’t blame me if later on i’m going to get a better job…i look at ppl farming hotjoin like they’re trying to go for the “easy way” nothing more, nothing less…i go hotjoin sometimes too when waiting for teamates or long ques, it’s relaxing, you don’t have to worry bout anything just kill kill and kill around and noone gives a kitten bout winning or something, good honor rewards too compared to tpvp…but that’s it, i just see hotjoin like something for free time between torneys, but for sure not something actually requiring personal skills or tactics…and i won’t change my mind on this point, unless they totally rework the whole hotjoin reward system…

Fjandi.2516:

Archaon.6245:

This is not arehundel’s imaginary world (Well you know wvsw, nough said), there are actually some basic rules like:

I agree with the post but, just to clarify, what’s wrong with playing wvw? Ah wait are you one of those pro elitists who specify in every post they write on this forum they play tpvp only? Lol @ zergjoins (meh, that’s kinda true but the sense of superiority in your post is quite childish anyway).
Spvp in this game is boring and repetitive, and tbh wvw is usually more enjoyable. Ofc the balance is even worse there.
That said i think thieves are kinda balanced in spvp, even more so in tpvp. Their class design remains bad tho.

It’s not a slight at WvW, it’s just that when it comes to balance, any mode that has stats and gear will not be as relevant to overall game balance as one that evens the playing field out for everyone. Therefore when talking about balance, most of the time, sPvP or tPvP is the better option, because you take out variables. It has nothing to do with being an elitist, moreso to do with being formulaic.

Archaon.6245:

Fjandi.2516:

I agree with the post but, just to clarify, what’s wrong with playing wvw?

Nothing wrong with playing wvsw…but posting bs in the spvp forum coming from a totally different enviroment (WvsW has pve skills, gear, levels, gold and so on…) claiming you’re so pro and stuff is just lol…i think i can find lots of good bunker guardians who can stand vs 3 glass thieves (Not for a long time for, but at least negating all the 3 bursts for sure) and this smart one comes from nowhere every single time without knowing wtf ppl are talking about…i don’t go on wvsw forum trying to troll ppl and stuff….and others should do the same. Spvp forum is for spvp not wvsw.

Ok, sorry for my misunderstanding.

Fjandi.2516:

Archaon.6245:

Fjandi.2516:

I agree with the post but, just to clarify, what’s wrong with playing wvw?

Nothing wrong with playing wvsw…but posting bs in the spvp forum coming from a totally different enviroment (WvsW has pve skills, gear, levels, gold and so on…) claiming you’re so pro and stuff is just lol…i think i can find lots of good bunker guardians who can stand vs 3 glass thieves (Not for a long time for, but at least negating all the 3 bursts for sure) and this smart one comes from nowhere every single time without knowing wtf ppl are talking about…i don’t go on wvsw forum trying to troll ppl and stuff….and others should do the same. Spvp forum is for spvp not wvsw.

Ok, sorry for my misunderstanding.

Np man…i don’t hate wvsw ppl, i just think ppl should talk about things they know…but usually it doesn’t happen, and not only on this forum xD

Batim.9075:

So reading the OPs post, you spent 1-2 minutes fighting an ele probably even a bunker ele. As you should of known 30 seconds in that you are going to end the fight right now or that you are going to keep fighting and someone else from the other team is going to rotate/roam over and gib you. It really didn’t have to be a thief since you said you popped all your cooldowns just to fight 1 ele. You could of been 100 bladed down or even 100 naded down. The thing is the ele distracted you, and the thief finished you off which is the sole purpose of his class as the meta stands right now.

I agreed with that, this was one example thats shows 2 hits:9k+ dmg (it does not show time stamp or casting time unfortunately) But the point is that I had a long on going fight with the elemenatlist witch i suppose did his best to bring me down. He used all his skill’s, and also his experience as a pvper. Then a Thief comes in to the fight doing more damage on two hits than anything the elemenatlist was able to do in 1-2 minutes. 1 -2 minutes vs 1-2 seconds, and you still dont get to point here?
I dont know in how many ways I can explain this.

Things you could of done better:
1) Don’t blow all your cooldowns on an “epic” 1v1 fight with a bunker ele because sooner or later your 1v1 fight will turn into a not so “epic” 1v2 fight against you.
This was a fair 1v1 in a none populated part of the map (i thought)
2) Use your back camera bind to know who is coming behind you even when you are fighting the ele you should always check who is coming into the point you are at when fighting. Situational awareness is what separates the better players from others. * (Im using this, but im more focus on what skills the player Im fighting is using, than i constant treat from thiefs.)*
3) Position yourself so you don’t get stabbed. Get on a ledge get on some sort terrain to fight the ele and also defend yourself from a gank. Use ranged Necro has 1200 range, it is good. Also that flesh wurm teleport utility is your get out of jail free card, try using it. (I dont what to dedicate one out of 4 skill slots only to be able to avoid one or two hits from a thief)
4) Use your damage mitigators plague form and death shroud to absorb the backstab and heartseekers, you need to precast but in order to precast you should have known that the thief was there in the first place, again situational awareness. (As described above, and how can you know that a thief is there? should i always place marks around me?)
5) Improve your reaction time, this game is not forgiving like other mmos you need to have twitch and the proper conditioning to instantly pop death shroud or to stun break burst. The only way to improve it is to keep on getting bursted by classes until you have it down. (There are so many examples where they got this right, my toughs are that this is your first mmorps and you are playing a thief.)

“High mobility, Highest Single target DPS burst, no damage mitigation, low health pool” – ArenaNet on thieves.
Working as intended.

It really doesn’t matter if the damage is between 1-2 seconds or 1-2 minutes. You fought a roaming spec that is designed to dump all his dps in one go and move onto the next point where his team needs him.

1. Why on earth would you want a “fair” 1v1 fight with a bunker ele? If your team isn’t consistently leveraging unfair situational advantages against the enemy team, and they are doing it to you. You are probably going to lose the match. Why are you fighting in an unpopulated area of the map? If you are not doing something active to cap points, fight on points, get buffs, and run/protect orbs fighting that ele is pretty useless. Especially, looking at that screenshot they have a 2 cap on you. While you are dancing with that ele, they are gaining more points than you over time. You need to disengage a fight like that.

2. Play ele for a bit, learn their rotations and you don’t have to concentrate as hard on the ele and you should be able to place yourself in camera view of anything coming your way. Any roaming class is going to own you when you are off cooldowns, stop thinking its just a constant threat from thieves.

3. So you don’t want to invest in a stun break, then your position has to be really good which really changes over time, or your god-like teammates have peels for days. Necros are #1 targets for roamers, you will get focused and when you do good luck without stun breaks

4. If you dont see the thief then your teammates have to tell you that the thief is coming your way, since you were fighting off point and don’t know where you are how on earth they going to help you?

5. No this is not my first mmo and yes i do play a dps thief.

Also, please watch Amesan, as he will show you what you are doing wrong with necro, positional and game-wise.
http://www.twitch.tv/amesan123

@Archaon
I wonder based on what you get your informations about people….even more I wonder how can you even keep posting anything after saying fantastic stories about guardians outlasting 3 thieves…in the real world a guardian must use all his defensive CD to survive a single burst..from an ele..let alone a well played HS spammer …but in your immaginary world a guardian can negate a burst from 3 thieves, I can only assume the guardian is r50 and thieves are “controlled” by 3 hamsters jumping on the keyboards…I’m sure that at “your level” we can find players able to win an entire match on their own….

By the way I’m still waiting of videos showing an ele outlasting 3 thieves at the same time( controlled by human beings that’s it)…watched few stream but I must have missed these videos of eles sharing “your same level” of skill

Probably you can’t see it because noone runs with more than one bs thief…well played hs spammer? lol? Is there a good way to actually spam hs? Do you mean keybinding 2 to a pedal and then haste+dance macarena while pushing it? Seriously…stop trolling you’re starting being really ridicolous…do you want to know ho to counter 3 backstab combos? Focus #5, swap to mace\shield with hidromancy, shield #5…they’re out of stealth sitting on the floor….if you have it and wanna go overkill just sanctuary after shield knockback…you know thieves don’t have stability…oh well, no you probably don’t know since you’re talking about a class that you never used..

Vs 3 hotjoin level thieves (Because that’s the only place where you can actually find 3 thieves going on you at the same time) it’s more than enough. For ele i think that mistform or\and shocking aura would probably work..because:

WARNING This part includes knowledge about opponent’s mechanincs instead of just QQing around…

If you go read c&d description you can see it grants 3 secs stealth in the bs combo, then if you read backstab you can see that is a stealth skill…..so if you wait 3 seconds they’ll be out of stealth and they can’t use backstab and with steal on cd they have to wait 45 secs for a new one….

Now, again…stop posting bs once and for all.

So your point on thieves being ‘unviable’ in tPvP is that they can be countered in hotjoin when played by newbs…well new comers to the videogame scene I’d rather say, well it does sounds legit….lol
Well played HS spammer? Is there any other way to define a thief?..there is nothing more iconic than HS for thieves..oh sorry next time I’ll make sure to use these words: ‘well played thief’.
But anyway..what I see now is : double guardian or double mesmer or double thief…so far I haven’t met a single double/triple ele team…but again at ‘your level’, I’m sure a bunker ele can hold against 2 thieves, one spamming cluster bomb and the other mug combo…beatiful -_-

I believe you’re the one who’s in need to go read skill description, when you go and say staff like : “an ele can handle 3 glass cannon thieves at once”…C&D gives 3s stealth…really? ty Archaon..I’ll make sure to save my 4th dodge for when it comes, then I’ll use my other 5 dodges to re-position myself, in this way I should be able to dodge even the second shortbow thief…fantastic -_-

Arheundel.6451:

So your point on thieves being ‘unviable’ in tPvP is that they can be countered in hotjoin when played by newbs…well new comers to the videogame scene I’d rather say, well it does sounds legit….lol
Well played HS spammer? Is there any other way to define a thief?..there is nothing more iconic than HS for thieves..oh sorry next time I’ll make sure to use these words: ‘well played thief’.
But anyway..what I see now is : double guardian or double mesmer or double thief…so far I haven’t met a single double/triple ele team…but again at ‘your level’, I’m sure a bunker ele can hold against 2 thieves, one spamming cluster bomb and the other mug combo…beatiful -_-

I believe you’re the one who’s in need to go read skill description, when you go and say staff like : “an ele can handle 3 glass cannon thieves at once”…

Nelont and Walkyrie (Our bunker eles) can hold 2 glass thieves for backup without losing the point…already did during some bunker tests with guildmates, if you can’t it’s your problem…not mine for sure..

Anyway you haven’t met a single double ele team…..and with this i think it’s enough, again just stop and try to act like nothing happenend, i’m just trying to save you from an epic gangflame…i’m not giving you other answers cause you just don’t deserve them…run away from here before someone other actually playing tpvp reads your post…just…..run……

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

So your point on thieves being ‘unviable’ in tPvP is that they can be countered in hotjoin when played by newbs…well new comers to the videogame scene I’d rather say, well it does sounds legit….lol
Well played HS spammer? Is there any other way to define a thief?..there is nothing more iconic than HS for thieves..oh sorry next time I’ll make sure to use these words: ‘well played thief’.
But anyway..what I see now is : double guardian or double mesmer or double thief…so far I haven’t met a single double/triple ele team…but again at ‘your level’, I’m sure a bunker ele can hold against 2 thieves, one spamming cluster bomb and the other mug combo…beatiful -_-

I believe you’re the one who’s in need to go read skill description, when you go and say staff like : “an ele can handle 3 glass cannon thieves at once”…

You haven’t met a single double ele team…..i think it’s enough, again just stop and try to act like nothing happenend, i’m just trying to save you from an epic gangflame…i’m not giving you an answer cause you just don’t deserve one…run away from here before someone other actually playing tpvp reads your post…just…..run……

What? I should run? LMAO

Dude you’re trying to say that a non BS guild run with 2/3 eles rather than 2 guardians, I can bring a bunker ele down to almost 20% HP withing few secs compared to a guardian that has got multiple KD and knockback, you’re mad bro ^^!

On top of that you’re still insisting on the fact that an ele can outlive 3 thieves..lol dude..just lol, pls do run with 2/3 eles and see how far you go, I really dunno at what level you’re playing bro..it must be another galaxy, another planet..comparing a bunker guardian to bunker ele…hilarious

I’d like to try against your bunker, two thieves who know how the ele works..there is no chance for your ele…now if the two thieves are terribad and just spamm HS when ele got frost aura up..then..XD

Arheundel.6451:

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

So your point on thieves being ‘unviable’ in tPvP is that they can be countered in hotjoin when played by newbs…well new comers to the videogame scene I’d rather say, well it does sounds legit….lol
Well played HS spammer? Is there any other way to define a thief?..there is nothing more iconic than HS for thieves..oh sorry next time I’ll make sure to use these words: ‘well played thief’.
But anyway..what I see now is : double guardian or double mesmer or double thief…so far I haven’t met a single double/triple ele team…but again at ‘your level’, I’m sure a bunker ele can hold against 2 thieves, one spamming cluster bomb and the other mug combo…beatiful -_-

I believe you’re the one who’s in need to go read skill description, when you go and say staff like : “an ele can handle 3 glass cannon thieves at once”…

You haven’t met a single double ele team…..i think it’s enough, again just stop and try to act like nothing happenend, i’m just trying to save you from an epic gangflame…i’m not giving you an answer cause you just don’t deserve one…run away from here before someone other actually playing tpvp reads your post…just…..run……

What? I should run? LMAO

Dude you’re trying to say that a non BS guild run with 2/3 eles rather than 2 guardians, I can bring a bunker ele down to almost 20% HP withing few secs compared to a guardian that has got multiple KD and knockback, you’re mad bro ^^!

On top of that you’re still insisting on the fact that an ele can outlive 3 thieves..lol dude..just lol, pls do run with 2/3 eles and see how far you go, I really dunno at what level you’re playing bro..it must be another galaxy, another planet..comparing a bunker guardian to bunker ele…hilarious

I’d like to try against your bunker, two thieves who know how the ele works..there is no chance for your ele…now if the two thieves are terribad and just spamm HS when ele got frost aura up..then..XD

See you can’t just get the point of being a bunker in tpvp…holding vs someone means you can hold you point for a reasonable time, usually 15-20 secs is enough..just to give roamers time for backup, that’s why trying to explain something to you it’s totally worthless…you just doesn’t know how tpvp works. Our eles can hold 2 thieves if specced full bunker without leaving the point for the time it takes from base to far point in lof, as i said before we already tested it (Maybe we can try how long can they hold vs 3, even if it’s completely useless since noone is going to face more than one thief in touneys)…thieves were not lowell o xeph for sure but not crap hs spammers either, if you can’t you don’t have to explain why to me, it’s only your problem and i don’t care why you’re not able to do so.

Thiefs are unkillable? When did that happen? ive killed like 50 today.

Arheundel.6451:

pls do run with 2/3 eles and see how far you go

That’s how we win around 8\10 “no more paid” tourneys actually.

And how many teams do you play against that run 2/3 BS thieves? Thieves are so snarked on right now noone has given them a chance… Burst thieves are still top dogs depending on how many are on the team. And they are the main reason people started running hardcore bunker builds.

jportell.2197:

And how many teams do you play against that run 2/3 BS thieves? Thieves are so snarked on right now noone has given them a chance… Burst thieves are still top dogs depending on how many are on the team. And they are the main reason people started running hardcore bunker builds.

Actually if someone, really rare, runs 2 thieves they’re 1 dps and 1 condition (Or both condition, really annoying btw)….i can’t remember last time i met 2 burst thieves in the same team, expec after they introduced matchmaking…now we face almost only 40+ teams and noone of them is dumb enough to run with 2 glass thieves dropping a condition necro, a mesmer or an ele roamer\dps for bringing 2 who are going to explode during teamfight aoes not even worth a res…one is ok, expec for finishing half health focused targets (Best job for a BS thief imo) or bringing down some glass dps…2 are nonsense..

Oh i see you are so amazing that you are able to reach R45… You want a cookie?
Seriously how many rank 45 teams are there everyone here is always saying how GW2 PvP is declining and blah blah blah… So i can imagine that you wind up playing the same 2 or 3 teams… over… and over…. and over…

jportell.2197:

Oh i see you are so amazing that you are able to reach R45… You want a cookie?
Seriously how many rank 45 teams are there everyone here is always saying how GW2 PvP is declining and blah blah blah… So i can imagine that you wind up playing the same 2 or 3 teams… over… and over…. and over…

Not the same teams but we often face the same guys many times a day at least in 2 teams tourneys, for example i already know we’re going to meet forsaken + someone else this morning, like every morning…we get pugs in 8vs8 only, always in the first map and sometimes in the second….47 btw…i just wrote 45+ because i’m too lazy to change it until 50…and no cookies thanks, maybe a pie would be appreciated u.u

And that is why nothing ever changes… Noone experiments people get laughed at if they try something new… But sometimes something new is so good that it works…

Just dropping by to post in an epic thread. This Arheundel dude must have spent hours grinding up to 400 trolling.

Seriously, two thieves on spirit. They cant even carry the orb, let alone be effective in the team fight at mid.

Sampi.5079:

They cant even carry the orb, let alone be effective in the team fight at mid.

Heartseeker can be used as a mini charge
And i have the feeling that Thiefs can handle 8v8 zergfest prety well

I’m sorry, CC loves to stick to the lack of stability called a thief. Also try going full glass thief into a team fight, you’ll get two HSs off before you die to aoe.

Sampi.5079:

I’m sorry, CC loves to stick to the lack of stability called a thief. Also try going full glass thief into a team fight, you’ll get two HSs off before you die to aoe.

Because nabs simply jump in the middle of a fight without prioritizing targets and watch which enemy has used his most trusted anti burst skill, it’s called lack of awareness..pls do not confuse viability of the profession with your inability to adapt your playstyle.

If you’re a bad thief..yeah you will jump in aoe zergfest thinking of killing everybody..if you’re a good thief you’ll pick important targets ( like a spamming necro) after he use most of his aoe, at the very least you’ll free some steam from your team..but hey we’re talking about decent players with a brain..yeah I know..they’re rare…

It’s called ‘team fight’ for a reason…it’s not called “let’s see who kill most targets battle” ty ….don’t worry fear of the unknown push you in calling people with names…one day you’ll get there..maybe

So now thief takes a bit of skill to play, you just admitted this correct?

I am sorry , did u miss the part where threads pop up saying that hotjoins are full of thieves ?
Maybe the hotjoiners thieves have created a higher awaraness that then tpvp one :P

Nah hotjoins are where people go to feel good at this game.

There is no skill, there is no strategy, there is only the zerg. Join, or feel its wrath :P

true :P
/whatervechar

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

Archaon.6245:

Arheundel.6451:

So your point on thieves being ‘unviable’ in tPvP is that they can be countered in hotjoin when played by newbs…well new comers to the videogame scene I’d rather say, well it does sounds legit….lol
Well played HS spammer? Is there any other way to define a thief?..there is nothing more iconic than HS for thieves..oh sorry next time I’ll make sure to use these words: ‘well played thief’.
But anyway..what I see now is : double guardian or double mesmer or double thief…so far I haven’t met a single double/triple ele team…but again at ‘your level’, I’m sure a bunker ele can hold against 2 thieves, one spamming cluster bomb and the other mug combo…beatiful -_-

I believe you’re the one who’s in need to go read skill description, when you go and say staff like : “an ele can handle 3 glass cannon thieves at once”…

You haven’t met a single double ele team…..i think it’s enough, again just stop and try to act like nothing happenend, i’m just trying to save you from an epic gangflame…i’m not giving you an answer cause you just don’t deserve one…run away from here before someone other actually playing tpvp reads your post…just…..run……

What? I should run? LMAO

Dude you’re trying to say that a non BS guild run with 2/3 eles rather than 2 guardians, I can bring a bunker ele down to almost 20% HP withing few secs compared to a guardian that has got multiple KD and knockback, you’re mad bro ^^!

On top of that you’re still insisting on the fact that an ele can outlive 3 thieves..lol dude..just lol, pls do run with 2/3 eles and see how far you go, I really dunno at what level you’re playing bro..it must be another galaxy, another planet..comparing a bunker guardian to bunker ele…hilarious

I’d like to try against your bunker, two thieves who know how the ele works..there is no chance for your ele…now if the two thieves are terribad and just spamm HS when ele got frost aura up..then..XD

See you can’t just get the point of being a bunker in tpvp…holding vs someone means you can hold you point for a reasonable time, usually 15-20 secs is enough..just to give roamers time for backup, that’s why trying to explain something to you it’s totally worthless…you just doesn’t know how tpvp works. Our eles can hold 2 thieves if specced full bunker without leaving the point for the time it takes from base to far point in lof, as i said before we already tested it (Maybe we can try how long can they hold vs 3, even if it’s completely useless since noone is going to face more than one thief in touneys)…thieves were not lowell o xeph for sure but not crap hs spammers either, if you can’t you don’t have to explain why to me, it’s only your problem and i don’t care why you’re not able to do so.

No pls…it was one ele vs 2 thieves up to now, don’t change it to 2 eles…..so you play with 2 bunker eles on a point..then you send your roamer..which I presume it’s not a thief because as you say they’re unviable..at this point I ask myself what is the rest of your team, don’t tell me you use 2 more eles?…-_-