In Defense of D/D Elementalists
That is actually not correct.
Many people actually stated that burn damage was fine but sustain was the real culprit of ^2 state of elementalists.
Also the un-“balance” team employed at ANet did not really nerf RoF but created a skill that was a little bit more forgiving to bad players and much less forgiving to good players.
The only real nerf I can remember from the top of my head was the might stack via cantrips nerf.
That is actually not correct.
Many people actually stated that burn damage was fine but sustain was the real culprit of ^2 state of elementalists.Also the un-“balance” team employed at ANet did not really nerf RoF but created a skill that was a little bit more forgiving to bad players and much less forgiving to good players.
The only real nerf I can remember from the top of my head was the might stack via cantrips nerf.
Pretty much this, and it’s still possible to get 20-25 might stacks on ele it just takes slightly more effort (which is the same as pre-patch).
I agree with OP. What he is said is true about forum QQ threads about ele burning. That’s why it was nerfed. Ele heals and vitality was slightly reduced by June 23 update.
Now I understand why others want peoples rank or whatever credible data they have publicly listed when posting comments. So much fail here from people with flawed opinions and incorrect beliefs.
I agree with OP. What he is said is true about forum QQ threads about ele burning. That’s why it was nerfed. Ele heals and vitality was slightly reduced by June 23 update.
Now I understand why others want peoples rank or whatever credible data they have publicly listed when posting comments. So much fail here from people with flawed opinions and incorrect beliefs.
Vitality?
Eles had better sustain pre June 23 patch
EU Scrub
Eles had better sustain pre June 23 patch
false. evasive arcana heal got buffed, they got access to frequent blinds, free frost aura, free 4x condi cleanse, regen and vigor from fire adept, EA made minor. Due to cele amulet they didnt loose defensive stats from traits relative to non-cele builds.
ele sustain always was the biggest problem and it still is, which is blatantly obvious if you play or watch a match involving eles
Nerfs in the latest patch where minuscule and mostly irrelevant (you still have 100% vigor, you still have 20-25 might), and the RoF buff was absolutely not what the class needed.
the fact that its one of the easiest builds ever to play effectively does not help either.
Theres a reason why in every tournament more then 30% of total players are eles. thats no random coincidence
I agree with OP. What he is said is true about forum QQ threads about ele burning. That’s why it was nerfed. Ele heals and vitality was slightly reduced by June 23 update.
Now I understand why others want peoples rank or whatever credible data they have publicly listed when posting comments. So much fail here from people with flawed opinions and incorrect beliefs.
Well, if you cant believe people there (which I can highly understand tbh), maybe Phanta (not only him, but I remeber him discussing about the “nerf” patch when updated) talking about the fact that the only thing nerfed to cele ele was might stack is enough :p
Theres a reason why in every tournament more then 30% of total players are eles. thats no random coincidence
To be fair that’s only because they limited class stacking. Kappa
Eles had better sustain pre June 23 patch
false. evasive arcana heal got buffed, they got access to frequent blinds, free frost aura, free 4x condi cleanse, regen and vigor from fire adept, EA made minor. Due to cele amulet they didnt loose defensive stats from traits relative to non-cele builds.
ele sustain always was the biggest problem and it still is, which is blatantly obvious if you play or watch a match involving eles
Nerfs in the latest patch where minuscule and mostly irrelevant (you still have 100% vigor, you still have 20-25 might), and the RoF buff was absolutely not what the class needed.
the fact that its one of the easiest builds ever to play effectively does not help either.
Theres a reason why in every tournament more then 30% of total players are eles. thats no random coincidence
I thought June 23 patch slightly reduced ele defensive stats (heals and vitality) but then got a massive boost in offense.
Eles had better sustain pre June 23 patch
From what I remember there was only a slight reduction in defensive stats. But from all the trait changes and stats no longer affected by trait lines, they got a nice offensive boost. It more than makes up the small defense nerf because they killed faster.
Eles had better sustain pre June 23 patch
From what I remember there was only a slight reduction in defensive stats. But from all the trait changes and stats no longer affected by trait lines, they got a nice offensive boost. It more than makes up the small defense nerf because they killed faster.
Aww come on now, that’s what I meant
cheers
EU Scrub
That is actually not correct.
Many people actually stated that burn damage was fine but sustain was the real culprit of ^2 state of elementalists.Also the un-“balance” team employed at ANet did not really nerf RoF but created a skill that was a little bit more forgiving to bad players and much less forgiving to good players.
The only real nerf I can remember from the top of my head was the might stack via cantrips nerf.
This is the correct statement.
The patch actually make ele more powerful…they are basically unstoppable now even signet nerco cant stop them now…at least previously signet nerco is a hard counter towards them but now they are unstoppable
Either you people have no integrity or you forget REALLY fast. To tell me that the complaints about eles before the RoF and might nerf was about sustain and not burns is absolutely incorrect on every possible level.
This is what the pvp forum thought of d/d eles before the RoF nerf and after the June patch. Bear in mind that this is only as far back as 2 months ago or about 1/3 of all complaints about elementalist BURN OPness
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Burning-Fire-trait-Does-this-bother-no-one
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balance-Cele-DD-Ele-Please
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Do-something-with-this-insane-burning/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stop-with-the-QQ-for-ele-nerf/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-ele-d-d-nerf-confirmed/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-stacking-officially-seen-as-an-exploit/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalists-Balance-Celestial
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-A-more-focused-fix
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Another-Balance-Path-Ele-Still-Supreme
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Is-Ele-Base-Damage-Too-High
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Issues-with-the-elementalist-Fire-line/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Wars-2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/as-an-ele-i-m-sick-of-fire-line
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalist-and-Ring-of-Fire/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-ele/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-from-a-Ele-player-perspective/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Before-you-nerf-D-D-ele/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/DD-Ele-Burns/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Not-Another-Ele-Post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Nerf-After-WTS
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Realistic-way-to-nerf-Ele
Eles had better sustain pre June 23 patch
false.
ele sustain always was the biggest problem and it still is, which is blatantly obvious if you play or watch a match involving eles
Nerfs in the latest patch where minuscule and mostly irrelevant (you still have 100% vigor, you still have 20-25 might), and the RoF buff was absolutely not what the class needed.
THAT’S NOT WHAT YOU SAID when you started THIS:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/can-we-expect-cele-ele-fix-before-HoT
This OP is wicked +1
That is actually not correct.
Many people actually stated that burn damage was fine but sustain was the real culprit of ^2 state of elementalists.Also the un-“balance” team employed at ANet did not really nerf RoF but created a skill that was a little bit more forgiving to bad players and much less forgiving to good players.
The only real nerf I can remember from the top of my head was the might stack via cantrips nerf.
The last time I checked, these people had issues with burning. So, no, I don’t believe/agree/concur/sympathize with you. You may want to re-check what’s from the top of your head
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Burning-Fire-trait-Does-this-bother-no-one
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balance-Cele-DD-Ele-Please
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Do-something-with-this-insane-burning/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stop-with-the-QQ-for-ele-nerf/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-ele-d-d-nerf-confirmed/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-stacking-officially-seen-as-an-exploit/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalists-Balance-Celestial
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-A-more-focused-fix
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Another-Balance-Path-Ele-Still-Supreme
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Is-Ele-Base-Damage-Too-High
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Issues-with-the-elementalist-Fire-line/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Wars-2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/as-an-ele-i-m-sick-of-fire-line
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalist-and-Ring-of-Fire/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-ele/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-from-a-Ele-player-perspective/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Before-you-nerf-D-D-ele/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/DD-Ele-Burns/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Not-Another-Ele-Post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Nerf-After-WTS
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Realistic-way-to-nerf-Ele
Either you people have no integrity or you forget REALLY fast. To tell me that the complaints about eles before the RoF and might nerf was about sustain and not burns is absolutely incorrect on every possible level.
This is what the pvp forum thought of d/d eles before the RoF nerf and after the June patch. Bear in mind that this is only as far back as 2 months ago or about 1/3 of all complaints about elementalist BURN OPness
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Burning-Fire-trait-Does-this-bother-no-one
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balance-Cele-DD-Ele-Please
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Do-something-with-this-insane-burning/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stop-with-the-QQ-for-ele-nerf/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-ele-d-d-nerf-confirmed/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-stacking-officially-seen-as-an-exploit/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalists-Balance-Celestial
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-A-more-focused-fix
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Another-Balance-Path-Ele-Still-Supreme
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Is-Ele-Base-Damage-Too-High
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Issues-with-the-elementalist-Fire-line/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Wars-2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/as-an-ele-i-m-sick-of-fire-line
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalist-and-Ring-of-Fire/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-ele/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-from-a-Ele-player-perspective/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Before-you-nerf-D-D-ele/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/DD-Ele-Burns/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Not-Another-Ele-Post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Nerf-After-WTS
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Realistic-way-to-nerf-Ele
Lets not confuse things here.
All the complaints are from SoloQ and what SoloQ players perceived in Unranked/Ranked PvP. Honestly, the change to RoF was still needed for these Solo QQing players but that’s my own opinion on the matter.
The competitive players in high tier pvp – Team vs Team or ESL / WTS tournaments, would tell you that it’s entirely Ele’s Sustains in Team fights that makes them OP. That 4 Ele comp didn’t win a tournament off of their damages alone. It was because of their incredible mobility to rotate the map and bunk a point.
Phantaram himself said that the Might stacking nerf was good enough but… he’s Phantaram. He doesn’t want his class to perform worse than it already is. Phanta and Wakkey set the bar for the Ele class. I’d hate there to be a nerf that completely ruins it because I think they’re incredible players.
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
(edited by Saiyan.1704)
Either you people have no integrity or you forget REALLY fast. To tell me that the complaints about eles before the RoF and might nerf was about sustain and not burns is absolutely incorrect on every possible level.
This is what the pvp forum thought of d/d eles before the RoF nerf and after the June patch. Bear in mind that this is only as far back as 2 months ago or about 1/3 of all complaints about elementalist BURN OPness
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Burning-Fire-trait-Does-this-bother-no-one
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Balance-Cele-DD-Ele-Please
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Do-something-with-this-insane-burning/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stop-with-the-QQ-for-ele-nerf/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-ele-d-d-nerf-confirmed/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-stacking-officially-seen-as-an-exploit/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalists-Balance-Celestial
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-A-more-focused-fix
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Another-Balance-Path-Ele-Still-Supreme
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Is-Ele-Base-Damage-Too-High
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Issues-with-the-elementalist-Fire-line/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Wars-2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/as-an-ele-i-m-sick-of-fire-line
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Elementalist-and-Ring-of-Fire/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-ele/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/D-D-Ele-from-a-Ele-player-perspective/first
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Before-you-nerf-D-D-ele/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/DD-Ele-Burns/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Not-Another-Ele-Post
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Ele-Nerf-After-WTS
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Realistic-way-to-nerf-Ele
Lets not confuse things here.
All the complaints are from SoloQ and what SoloQ players perceived in Unranked/Ranked PvP. Honestly, the change to RoF was still needed for these Solo QQing players but that’s my own opinion on the matter.
The competitive players in high tier pvp – Team vs Team or ESL / WTS tournaments, would tell you that it’s entirely Ele’s Sustains in Team fights that makes them OP. That 4 Ele comp didn’t win a tournament off of their damages alone. It was because of their incredible mobility to rotate the map and bunk a point.
Phantaram himself said that the Might stacking nerf was good enough but… he’s Phantaram. He doesn’t want his class to perform worse than it already is.
Pretty much this. If you 2v1 an ele and he disengages, you either keep chasing with 2 people which isn’t the best thing to do, or 1 of you will leave and the ele just resets itself in less than 10 seconds, then comes back and probably takes the 1v1 but at least it survives.
Phantaram’s a great player and such, but Abjured runs a double ele comp and each time ele was too OP they happened to win WTS, it’s not really his interest to get the right things nerfed especially with a 400k tournament coming up.
Well duh 99.9999% of pvpers are not high tier tourney players so why the heck would I speak on their behalf?
Most of the stuff that happens in tourneys don’t apply to the matches I play. Ranked Solo Q.
Unlike most people here, I’m not delusional to think that I play in the same level as they do. Most of the QQ threads were about burning. And yes they are from solo queue ppl and yes their opinions mean more to me because I can relate with them.
If what you said is true, then I guess Anet ignored the opinions of these tourney players and listened to the complaints of us ordinary folk.
Because anet adjusted dd ele condition damage, the stuff people complained about. NOT sustain, which is what according to you, tourney players complained about
This OP is wicked +1
Or wasting his time. Presenting facts to any argument carries very little weight on the forum because people stick to what they believe as being the truth.
EU Scrub
Well duh 99.9999% of pvpers are not high tier tourney players so why the heck would I speak on their behalf?
Most of the stuff that happens in tourneys don’t apply to the matches I play. Ranked Solo Q.
Unlike most people here, I’m not delusional to think that I play in the same level as they do. Most of the QQ threads were about burning. And yes they are from solo queue ppl and yes their opinions mean more to me because I can relate with them.
Since you apparently know Ele sustains were the culprit and you apparently know that all the complaints were from SoloQ players, why even say what you said?
We never said you were speaking on their behalf. We were merely correcting this statement,
“The complaints about eles before the RoF and might nerf was about sustain and not burns is absolutely incorrect on every possible level.”
To further politically correct you, we complained about Ele Sustains waaayyy before the June 23rd patch. It’s not like this wasn’t mentioned before. It most certainly was, multiple times.
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld
sustain is inherent w/ dd eles. nothing new.
I’m not really sure what the goal of this thread is even about
EU Scrub
Eles had better sustain pre June 23 patch
false.
ele sustain always was the biggest problem and it still is, which is blatantly obvious if you play or watch a match involving eles
Nerfs in the latest patch where minuscule and mostly irrelevant (you still have 100% vigor, you still have 20-25 might), and the RoF buff was absolutely not what the class needed.
THAT’S NOT WHAT YOU SAID when you started THIS:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/can-we-expect-cele-ele-fix-before-HoT
? thats exactly what i said there, i dont get your point. i always said sustain is the problem and burning needs only a small nerf. I rarely have a problem with builds doin dmg in general, you can outplay dmg. You cant outplay eles sustain.
Changing mobility/teamsupport would be another option, but that would require multiple skill reworks. Seeing how simple number changes on skills take months to implement, i rather not wait for extensive reworks
Concerning loss of traitpoints – you have to look at it in relative terms. Yes ele lost a bit (cant remember exact number) vit/hp (but gained toughness). But classes that dont run celestial lost up to 300 tough/vit/hp if its not part of the new amulet. Though its tough to compare this because the spec patch changed the core of builds quite a bit.
The bottom line is – ele is just too strong. Too much sustain combined with superior mobility, teamsupport, excellent dmg. It has no real weaknesses, it has no real counters, it has no real counterplay. Thats why everyone plays 2 of them. Its bad for the game, its boring.
Well duh 99.9999% of pvpers are not high tier tourney players so why the heck would I speak on their behalf?
Most of the stuff that happens in tourneys don’t apply to the matches I play. Ranked Solo Q.
Unlike most people here, I’m not delusional to think that I play in the same level as they do. Most of the QQ threads were about burning. And yes they are from solo queue ppl and yes their opinions mean more to me because I can relate with them.
Don’t you think a game should be balanced based on what people can do with a build, and not around what people can’t? Yeah sure some people on these forums can’t even play DD ele right, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be nerfed.
Well duh 99.9999% of pvpers are not high tier tourney players so why the heck would I speak on their behalf?
Most of the stuff that happens in tourneys don’t apply to the matches I play. Ranked Solo Q.
Unlike most people here, I’m not delusional to think that I play in the same level as they do. Most of the QQ threads were about burning. And yes they are from solo queue ppl and yes their opinions mean more to me because I can relate with them.
Don’t you think a game should be balanced based on what people can do with a build, and not around what people can’t? Yeah sure some people on these forums can’t even play DD ele right, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be nerfed.
So, Nos had consistently won most of his 1v1 since the time Necro was considered the bottom class. With your philosophy, we should balance based on what people can do with the class. That mean we shouldn’t have buffed my Necro at all? In fact, it should have been nerfed?
/cringe with those forums warriors, both you and Saiyan.
Already quit PvP. Just log in here and there to troll.
(edited by Sunshine.5014)
Well duh 99.9999% of pvpers are not high tier tourney players so why the heck would I speak on their behalf?
Most of the stuff that happens in tourneys don’t apply to the matches I play. Ranked Solo Q.
Unlike most people here, I’m not delusional to think that I play in the same level as they do. Most of the QQ threads were about burning. And yes they are from solo queue ppl and yes their opinions mean more to me because I can relate with them.
Don’t you think a game should be balanced based on what people can do with a build, and not around what people can’t? Yeah sure some people on these forums can’t even play DD ele right, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be nerfed.
So, Nos had consistently won most of his 1v1 since the time Necro was considered the bottom class. With your philosophy, we should balance based on what people can do with the class. That mean we shouldn’t have buffed my Necro at all? In fact, it should have been nerfed?
/cringe with those forums warriors, both you and Saiyan.
Notice the plural please. Don’t balance the game around 1 guy, but around the competitive scene and last time I checked Conquest wasn’t only about 1v1s.
Is there anything else you can bring to the debate besides insults?
Well duh 99.9999% of pvpers are not high tier tourney players so why the heck would I speak on their behalf?
Most of the stuff that happens in tourneys don’t apply to the matches I play. Ranked Solo Q.
Unlike most people here, I’m not delusional to think that I play in the same level as they do. Most of the QQ threads were about burning. And yes they are from solo queue ppl and yes their opinions mean more to me because I can relate with them.
Don’t you think a game should be balanced based on what people can do with a build, and not around what people can’t? Yeah sure some people on these forums can’t even play DD ele right, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be nerfed.
So, Nos had consistently won most of his 1v1 since the time Necro was considered the bottom class. With your philosophy, we should balance based on what people can do with the class. That mean we shouldn’t have buffed my Necro at all? In fact, it should have been nerfed?
/cringe with those forums warriors, both you and Saiyan.
Notice the plural please. Don’t balance the game around 1 guy, but around the competitive scene and last time I checked Conquest wasn’t only about 1v1s.
Is there anything else you can bring to the debate besides insults?
Hah, now you try to shift the argument in to semantics. Fine, so how much “plural” is enough for your argument? You got to decide that right? 50%? 80%? 20% population?
If you now decided to argue based on the population, then stop citing Phantaram and Wakkey for “ele too strong”. On one hand, arguing using what the people “can” do with Ele as a whole, and on the other hand ask for nerf using the number of Ele in high level tournament; that’s a shameful act that doesn’t benefit the balance of this game. You just try to cherry pick data to fit your confirmation bias.
If you think Ele has too much sustain, get your Fire Cele Ele in and duel with my Mesmer. Let’s see how much sustain you have.
Reviewed the list of threads cakeonroof posted. You and Saiyan were the biggest forum warriors claiming Ele were too strong because of burning. Now that Ele burning was needed, you switched to ask for healing nerfed. I’m pretty sure after that you will continue to ask for mobility nerf too, since you don’t seem to be able to deal with Ele no matter how easy it is to deal with them.
Already quit PvP. Just log in here and there to troll.
Well duh 99.9999% of pvpers are not high tier tourney players so why the heck would I speak on their behalf?
Most of the stuff that happens in tourneys don’t apply to the matches I play. Ranked Solo Q.
Unlike most people here, I’m not delusional to think that I play in the same level as they do. Most of the QQ threads were about burning. And yes they are from solo queue ppl and yes their opinions mean more to me because I can relate with them.
Don’t you think a game should be balanced based on what people can do with a build, and not around what people can’t? Yeah sure some people on these forums can’t even play DD ele right, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be nerfed.
So, Nos had consistently won most of his 1v1 since the time Necro was considered the bottom class. With your philosophy, we should balance based on what people can do with the class. That mean we shouldn’t have buffed my Necro at all? In fact, it should have been nerfed?
/cringe with those forums warriors, both you and Saiyan.
Notice the plural please. Don’t balance the game around 1 guy, but around the competitive scene and last time I checked Conquest wasn’t only about 1v1s.
Is there anything else you can bring to the debate besides insults?
Hah, now you try to shift the argument in to semantics. Fine, so how much “plural” is enough for your argument? You got to decide that right? 50%? 80%? 20% population?
If you now decided to argue based on the population, then stop citing Phantaram and Wakkey for “ele too strong”. On one hand, arguing using what the people “can” do with Ele as a whole, and on the other hand ask for nerf using the number of Ele in high level tournament; that’s a shameful act that doesn’t benefit the balance of this game. You just try to cherry pick data to fit your confirmation bias.
If you think Ele has too much sustain, get your Fire Cele Ele in and duel with my Mesmer. Let’s see how much sustain you have.
Reviewed the list of threads cakeonroof posted. You and Saiyan were the biggest forum warriors claiming Ele were too strong because of burning. Now that Ele burning was needed, you switched to ask for healing nerfed. I’m pretty sure after that you will continue to ask for mobility nerf too, since you don’t seem to be able to deal with Ele no matter how easy it is to deal with them.
Are you implying that a DD ele should ever lose to a shatter mesmer in 1v1? lol?
In your opinion, when would something be worthy of a nerf? I think if a game has 8 classes, with at least 1 viable build for each class, yet roughly 40% of the tournament population consists of 1 build while ESL has to take steps against ele stacking then something’s not right.
Not to mention that this isn’t only a tournament problem, any slightly above average DD ele can hold his ground against top players.
I don’t play the class, but I don’t need to play the class to know that their damage, burning and might stacking were never the problem. The problem has always been their sustain, enough to sometimes even hold a 1 v 2 depending on the classes involved. By all means, they can blow me up, thats fine, just let me return that damage in kind.
I’m not really sure what the goal of this thread is even about
OP was illustrating how inconsistent most forum people are and how they migrate from one complaint to another. Then he pointed out and linked to threads people denied saying. Waste of time if you ask me but I get what he’s doing
I don’t play the class, but I don’t need to play the class to know that their damage, burning and might stacking were never the problem. The problem has always been their sustain, enough to sometimes even hold a 1 v 2 depending on the classes involved. By all means, they can blow me up, thats fine, just let me return that damage in kind.
Not according to the linked threads circa post June 23-Sept29.
The biggest issue against d/d eles were burning and damage – which were overtuned after June patch. Their sustain was actually reduced by a little.
Now that might and condi damage were nerfed, people have moved on to complain about sustain even though it wasn’t an issue before nerf.
I don’t understand the issue with celestial builds having sustain.. That’s kinda the point. Damage was definitely the issue with the build before the patch, now they’re fine. They don’t get as much might, they don’t inflict as much burn, you have to land some tricky skills to get good burst ( Burning speed, Fire grab, Updraft )
If it wasn’t for the support they provide, DD ele would be outclassed pretty hard by cele engi, who have way more might access and as much sustain.
Nooctae ( Thief ) / Encelya ( Engineer ) / Jane Crimson ( Elementalist ) / Kowywr ( Revenant )
Europe, Vizunah.
Some of the comments on this thread boggles my mind. They are just so bad, so so bad.
Eles HAD better sustain before June 23 and even then people weren’t complaining about ele sustain. Cele warriors and engies beat dd eles on point
It was super obvious that the problem with eles after patch was damage. For people to start saying it was sustain all along should open your eyes to the kind of misinformation you get on the forum.
Without sustain, how the heck can dd ele survive being light armored, melee ranged and one of lowest health pools.
OP did not have to list all the threads to make me believe him because it was already obvious in-game.
What’s annoying is how people still wont accept that damage was the problem even after OP threw on their faces, the threads that confirmed the problems w damage
I Hate Dumb Teams – nec
That is actually not correct.
Many people actually stated that burn damage was fine but sustain was the real culprit of ^2 state of elementalists.Also the un-“balance” team employed at ANet did not really nerf RoF but created a skill that was a little bit more forgiving to bad players and much less forgiving to good players.
The only real nerf I can remember from the top of my head was the might stack via cantrips nerf.
Can you link who these “many people” are who said burn damage was fine after June 23 patch – Just like OP did with “real” people saying that burn damage was problematic.
I Hate Dumb Teams – nec
Well all due respect, throwing a bunch of threads at people does not prove all that much. Pick any topic at all, and I’m sure you could find 10+ threads proving your point without much trouble. Particularly when it comes to something controversial, like this.
lol We might as well reduce their dodge rolls to one for ever 10 sec, reduce them to sticking to one attunement while in combat and remove condi clears completely from water line. and also while nerfing dd ele since no one can kill it, we might as well nerf support guard since i’ve seen multiple 3v1’s that cant kill a support guard with half a brain. and we should nerf svarnir since it drops scrubs or even lord since some ppl can’t solo it. just l2p.
tips for fighting an ele:
don’t 1v1 it
don’t 2v1 it if both of you lack dps
tell your thief and mes or a rampage warr to blow it up
PRACTICE because the more you QQ won’t make you better
… i’m sure others can help you out with more tips
Higher lvl guys hate dd eles just as much as you do but they learn how to play against it. It’s a l2p issue.. not my fault you can’t avoid RoF now lol and when you guys do start QQ’ing about the next flavor of the month cry about engi because they decap better and hold points 1v1’2v1’s like ele. or maybe nerf that annoying rabbit in fractals that one shots people who double dodge roll then wonder why they are dead 2s later
Surrge of the Mists-Rev
Pixel Surrge-Ele
(edited by surrge.3214)
I think Anet needs to decrease Elementalist base health to 8k.
/takes popcorn
I think Anet needs to decrease Elementalist base health to 8k.
/takes popcorn
lmao I see what you did there
EU Scrub
I was a critic of elementalists after June patch because they really were overtuned but they are ok now. I’d say slightly OP but seeing how meh Tempest was, I think dd eles should be left alone.
I play dd ele too but as an engie main, I know how annoying engies could be. Sometimes more so than dd eles.
EU Scrub
I play D/D, and I die to signet necros most of the time.
You can’t do insane amount of burn with RoF anymore, but its still possible to stack up to 1k of burning with RoF and cleansing fire.
Fire line still does a lot of raw damage though, because of empowering flames and pyromancer training.
The amount of sustain we have, is good enough for a 1v1, assuming the guy isn’t going to burst me in 3 seconds. It’s only good for long fights, and its still tricky to hold a point towards two people who are speced to hit hard.
Too many times I have ran into situations whereby I’m holding a point against one guy, ran out of dodges and a power ranger pews pews me to death.
(edited by Triflux.8027)
My dd ele lives a very healthy lifestyle. She exercises regularly and loves running around. She enjoys the warmth, drinks plenty of water and eats high fiber foods to detoxify her body.
That being said, my dd ele despises poison and chill. They make her sick, slow and lazy. Her appearance go from looking 5 years younger to an emaciated, pale skinned, smack abuser that’s prematurely aging.
Please be nice, don’t apply poison and chill to d/d eles
EU Scrub
What people fail to realize is that the other 2 light armored classes, cele signet necro and shatter Mesmer, beat dd eles.
What people fail to realize is that the other 2 light armored classes, cele signet necro and shatter Mesmer, beat dd eles.
Mesmer doesn’t beat DD ele.
^ Usually only characer that i play on
What people fail to realize is that the other 2 light armored classes, cele signet necro and shatter Mesmer, beat dd eles.
Cele nec is a 50/50 matchup for DD, and even then the nec can only kill the ele if the ele wants to die – he can just disengage anytime and the nec can’t chase him down, then give the ele a couple of seconds, he’ll reset and come back, after a while the ele shall outsustain the nec.
And there is a solid 1 out of 10 chance that a shatter mes can beat an equally skilled DD ele – and then, again, the ele can just run away with RTL/FGS/LF, reset, and will lose to this tactic faster than a nec.
The nerf to dd eles actually made it a bit harder on my necro.
If you’re talking fight on point 1v1, the d/d ele will decap for sure if Mesmer held cap and is defending. But you can prevent eles from escaping if you time bursting them out of Armor of Earth and protection.
At this point, the only real outlier on d/d ele that they probably should shave is evasive arcana dodge in fire.
The flame burst ability does 2 stacks of burning for 6s, which is honestly an insane amount of damage given all the other things you can do with EA. This should be shaved to 1 stack for kitten .
At the same time, I would improve Pyromancer’s Puissance, as it is not really a GM-worthy trait (there are a lot of traits like this that are just bad). Honestly, the fire line needs some improvements in that conjurer is garbage, One with Fire is TERRIBLE working only with fire auras, and Power overwhelming is underwhelming given how condis work on ele.
(edited by BlackBeard.2873)