Guild Wars 2

Is burning broken on purpose or it will be changed any time soon ? Some people may like it but i think is kittened.

It’s really got to be changed, I think burning stacking is okay as long as individual skills don’t apply 3+ stacks per attack or whatever. Watching burn guardians just plop 15+ stacks of burning on someone in a few seconds is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen.

I always thought not cleansing 15+ stacks of burning is a pretty dumb thing.

paradox.3528:

Is burning broken on purpose or it will be changed any time soon ? Some people may like it but i think is kittened.

Why ?

is it because you continually refuse to run a cleansing team comp ?

is it because you want the ONLY 3 barely viable options outside of zerker to fail and be completely useless again in dungeons and across other places in the game ?

i’d rather have the few PvPers quit here then have so many people on other areas of the game quit due to zerker boredom.

Tongku.5326:

paradox.3528:

Is burning broken on purpose or it will be changed any time soon ? Some people may like it but i think is kittened.

Why ?

is it because you continually refuse to run a cleansing team comp ?

is it because you want the ONLY 3 barely viable options outside of zerker to fail and be completely useless again in dungeons and across other places in the game ?

i’d rather have the few PvPers quit here then have so many people on other areas of the game quit due to zerker boredom.

Burning would still be fine, even if it took a damage hit.

As it stands now, conditions are meant to be damage over time, but most builds that are utilizing burning are literally playing as if they were marauder/zerker builds due to the sheer amount of burns they can unload in a short amount of time, with the added bonus of their damage coming from only one stat, meaning they can beef themselves up with healing power, toughness, vitality, etc.

I played a Burn guardian, and it’s disgusting at how effective it is, i don’t need to think about what I’m doing, just pop whatever applies burns and you’re golden.

An engineer running with a flamethrower, balth runes, dual pistols and doom/geo is even worse. I was literally killing people by doing the following:

1. Use Incendiary Ammo
2. Magnet Pull
3. Weapon swap

On top of all the procs that went off upon weapon swapping, it was enough to actually down several classes/builds. Do you really think that’s balanced? This wasn’t damage that took 10-15 seconds to roll out either, this was literally condi burst that was occuring from a weapon swap, procing my sigils which in turn, procced incendiary powder and Incendiary Ammo’s effect. I was applying nearly 9 stacks of burn instantly, alongside a ton of other condi’s and it was wiping classes with 11-15k hp in mere seconds.

yeah… but then again the whole way dots have always been in this game has been inherently broken. “just run clense” is a kittening stupid response too seeing as we all get a heal slot, but not all classes get a “clense slot” some classes don’t have room to bring a clense, or don’t have a good clense to access.

Burst condi wouldn’t be an issue if it weren’t for the fact that they get 2 free defensive stats for no reason, condi damage builds should have to at least build durration, and probably precision and let condi’s tick for crits, and then rebalance everything around that… that way if you want to do stupid kittening aoe face roll condi field burst you are at least taking a risk for it as opposed to being as tanky as most the bunker specs…

Said something similar to this in a different thread.
Figured I’d say it again:

The damage coefficients on burn are not OP. What is OP is that it stacks to 25 and this is now broken considering how many random attacks in the game easily with no applied effort, splash AoE burn fields all over the place.

The game’s initial design for condis was like this: (Bleed stacks 25, weaker condi but stackable for high DPS output in the long fight. Poison single stack, stacks duration, weaker condi but kills heal potential when applied with longer duration. Burn is powerful single stack DPS, only stacks duration, not intensity.) This was more in balance with how weapon skills/utilities/traits were originally designed and how they dished out condis in the game but now everything stacks to 25 and this was never originally taken in to consideration when designing things like Warrior F1 Longbow, Purging Flames, Ele Fire Fields, ect.. ect.. so now we have a design flaw. Burn is the most powerful condi, it is the easiest condi to land and it is BY FAR the easiest condi to stack, due to the nature of AoE burn fields. “Sounds balanced right?”

But there in the above is the actual problem. Now that burn is allowed stacking up to 25, weapon skills/utilities/traits need reworking to accommodate this because as of now they break condi play in the game and make burn the only condi that is worth using because it is very easy to apply, very easy to stack and has enormous DPS in contrast to other condis.

Does hell have to freeze over before fresh faced forumite’s come to the realisation that in refusing to carry cleanse it follows that their build is bad?

Everyone here saying to run condi cleanses are probably running some sort of cheese burn build that carry them. No condi cleanse spec can continuously keep up with a burn spec such as burn guardian. So burns do need a nerf to the ground.

If people burn you, you must stop, drop and roll.

Didn’t we learn that in kindergarten? Come on now, build for some cleanse…get with the times man…

The problem is simple. The stack application per skill is too high. Not the burning it damage it self just the number of stacks applied. If all the skills that say apply 3 stacks of burning or more only applied 1 or 2 this likely would not be an issue at all. I do not think there needs to be a hard cap.

Nick.7621:

Everyone here saying to run condi cleanses are probably running some sort of cheese burn build that carry them. No condi cleanse spec can continuously keep up with a burn spec such as burn guardian. So burns do need a nerf to the ground.

that’s why you kill the burn guard.
you are not going to be able to clear the burns indefinitely, but you can absolutely clear them long enough to kill the guard. defense is offense. stunlock them so they can’t burn, hit them with a 10k burst to they freak out and pop cd’s, etc. counter pressure is essential to success.

the same goes for power builds. you can only ‘tank’ them for a time.

I play burn guard in unranked and it does indeed bring absolute devastation on the enemy team. Haven’t had much success in ranked arena though. People there seem to know how to counter it, so i just bring my shout guard to ranked arenas (which incidentally, is also a hard counter to burn guard).

Tala.7638:

If people burn you, you must stop, drop and roll.

Didn’t we learn that in kindergarten? Come on now, build for some cleanse…get with the times man…

That doesn’t work when the flames are caused by magic :P

Problem with burning is, conditions, at least alone, aren’t meant to be “bursty” unless you could stack them high and they are to fill an attrition role, slowly wearing the enemy down. Burn does too much damage too quickly, and completely defeats the purpose of condition removal, even if you have it. Condition removal is supposed to be a smart decision, as it’s always limited, but unlike EVERY other condition in the game, you can’t allow it to linger and think of a better time to use them, the best time is always “right the hell now!” Which, in cases of Ele with low cooldowns and maybe a little bit Burn Guard (which are less of an issue, but still pretty dangerous) as soon as you’re sure to get rid of some burns, which may take more than one cleanse if it’s covered (luck applies, coverage is another reason Burn guardian is less portent than Ele), you can find them back. And for both builds its INCREDIBLY easy to apply, where Elementalist has two huge burn fields on now cooldowns, meaning a lot of haphazard damage just trying to move around a point.

So yeah, conditions aren’t Op, but yes, Burn in its current state is both counter-design, it’s too strong and many applications of it are too easy to gain benefits from. On an Elementalist, a single Pass-Through of ring of fire can do 4-4.5k damage. With a 10 second cooldowns and 5 second field and need to move around, that’s a lot of easy damage for simply throwing down a hazard with 45% uptime potential.

Edit: Ignore typos, MMO lingo doesn’t work with phones.

Meanwhile, Necros love the burn builds. Thanks for the free damage.

DaShi.1368:

Meanwhile, Necros love the burn builds. Thanks for the free damage.

Revenant too. I had so much fun melting people with my Malyx focused build during the beta. Condi transfer builds punish burn spammers super hard.

Brew Pinch.5731:

Does hell have to freeze over before fresh faced forumite’s come to the realisation that in refusing to carry cleanse it follows that their build is bad?

And what’s a thief supposed to do? 4 of my 5 utilities remove a condition. 3 of 5 have reduced cooldowns. One of my weapon skills removes a condition. Sitting in stealth for three seconds removes a condition.

In other words, I bring condition removal. But I still find myself not being able to outlast several builds. Their defense is too high for my attacks, while their damage is too high for my health. I’m even using the Marauder amulet.

TheGuy.3568:

The problem is simple. The stack application per skill is too high. Not the burning it damage it self just the number of stacks applied. If all the skills that say apply 3 stacks of burning or more only applied 1 or 2 this likely would not be an issue at all. I do not think there needs to be a hard cap.

Pretty much this.

No skill should have more than 2 stacks of burning. If the damage is justified, increase the durations to reduce the condi burst.

Yes, you can cleanse it. That would be fine BUT if you don’t cleanse it within two seconds, you’re dead or near-dead from full. That burst is what’s broken.

Burning is ridiculous right now, would be nice if they dropped it down and buffed bleeds a bit to compensate

TheLastNobody.8319:

Burning is ridiculous right now, would be nice if they dropped it down and buffed bleeds a bit to compensate

I agree with this 1000000000%. Bleeds do kitten damage, while burning scales way to well.

Its hilarious in pvp trying to play a condi necro build and barely break 1K per second bleed ticks after 5+seconds of attacking, to have guardians running around putting more than ten stacks of burning on someone at once, doing several times the damage a condi necro does with a much shorter ramp up time.

Well at least necro can transfer the aids back…

Definitely sounds like the optimal tweak would be to cut down the number of Burning stacks while boosting their durations to compensate. Keep ‘em even, and condition builds don’t have to take an unnecessary hit in PvE.

Burning is not broken. Ele burning is broken.

Burn guards can do heavy damage with but they are very squishy. Necros have an easier time killing these than eles.

d/d Eles apply burning from the ground via RoF, traited cleansing fire, cleansing fire, drakes breath AND still have high sustain. ele burns = Low CD, lots of sources for burn dmg, higher stacks

Engies can apply serious burns as well but the sources of burning dmg are limited and have a long CD.

Warrior LB burning is meh. Duration short, stacks are low

Ranger burns are meh. 25s CD on torch 5 and flame trap 15s CD. Damage by single stack pulse instead of quick multi-stack

…….

ronpierce.2760:

Problem with burning is, conditions, at least alone, aren’t meant to be “bursty” unless you could stack them high and they are to fill an attrition role, slowly wearing the enemy down. Burn does too much damage too quickly, and completely defeats the purpose of condition removal, even if you have it.

They are past the point where conditions as an attrition role applies. Due to power creep, cleanse has become so prevalent, that conditions only work with continuous bursts or as extra damage on a hybrid spec. This has also raised the stakes such that condi cleanse is almost necessary so that you aren’t a sitting duck to one single condi-burst, putting condis in a strange place. Conditions were much closer to balanced near the start of the game, when a condi necro needed to work to maintain bleed stacks, and condi removal required intelligent timing because it was more scarce.

With the pace of the game now, the only way any condis even stick is because every trait and skill randomly farts out conditions, and condis are rarely applied intelligently (oh, he doesn’t have poison atm, I have to use skill 3…). Even then, some condi specs get completely erased by the cleanse on something like a d/d ele or cele signet necro (with all that transfer).

@BlackBeard
Absolute truth.

When condis no longer serve as attrition attacks, that means something is very wrong with game design.

Personally, I have a feeling like devs have no idea what are they doing right now; introducing random changes in so-called ,,buff-nerf rollercoaster". This might look like working nicely, but for longer run veteran players will notice this and leave.