Guild Wars 2

“…the warrior doesnt have a lot of ways to protect himself, he lacks the ways to reset his aggro as compared to a elementalist who has mist form or a thief who has steath….”

DISCLAIMER: Im not saying warriors dont need help, but please, PLEASE look into staff/scepters ele for once!
Look, you mentioned it yourself, " Evan loves to play his warrior" , I think I now comprehend where the bias comes from. You said that but, 5 second invulnerability in which you cant cast anything is a lot better than 3 seconds of invulnerability in which you cant cast anything either [elementalist].

Unless you are a D/D ele you wont be surviving a 5v5 focus either, i think that applies to a lot of classes, all I heard in the entire comversation was; “warriors need a lot of help, eles are ok, as long as you keep playing D/D and keep ignoring the already brokenly UP staff or scepter”.

Truth of the matter is; warriors are NOT as bad as staff/scepter eles are, can you PLEASE play them yourself a little bit and notice it?! A lot of people have been asking, BEGGING for some deserved buffs and all I see is this very obvious trend; warrior/thieves/mesmers keep getting all the goodies, while elementalists keep getting nerfed.

No, I dont want to play D/D ele, i dont wanna be forced to play that weapon because it is the only viable one, the only one that can “survive” and do something for the team other than occupy space. Please stop playing Evan’s favorite class and pay some attention to the other subforums.

[/rant]

edit; oh and necros

“we dont want to have too many key utilities, they cut into your build” yet if you go to elementalists traits you will see EVERYONE will HAVE to have arcana or water to be able to succeed, specially arcana, specially arcana VIII blasting wand which increases staff radius. I didnt take it by choice, I took it because i had no choice. Please, can we do some actual balancing for eles for once? getting really tired of this D/D deal, I dont want to play melee mage, I want a casters.

This is a good start to some suggestions; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Staff-Elementalist-state/first

and this is the best one yet; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist

Warriors aren’t even viable and yet you want them to refocus their attention on extra builds for classes that are already at the top of the food chain… lets at least get every class 1 viable tPvP build.

Defektive.7283:

Warriors aren’t even viable and yet you want them to refocus their attention on extra builds for classes that are already at the top of the food chain… lets at least get every class 1 viable tPvP build.

extra builds? i dont know what kind of games you have played before, but mages generally speaking have been casters, caster dont go into melee, casters dont wear 2 daggers unless they are ceremonial daggers. A lot of people get drawn into eles because they expect this Gandalfy bender of elements mage, and get out with a big dissapointed look in their faces when they see they are forced into D/D every. single. time.

Those two stuffs you mentioned are mutually exclusive, they can buff warriors while they also buff eles, it has been 8 months since release, I have yet to see people playign staff seriously outside of WvW, yet warriors have had good AND bads through those 8 months, goes to show where their “focus” is….. You also play warriors, I understand that you are also biased, just like Im for eles, but you had you 100lb quickness build, riffle is still scary on solo queue, GS is really good if you can play it well. Please, dont tell me that you dont have viable weapons, you might not be the top class in the game [now], but D/D reign has to stop, I want to play staff and be a factor.

S/D eles > D/D eles anyway, and warriors are the most UP class right now (even necros are probably better and can fill some niche in teams)

also, Endure Pain is 5 seconds, makes you immune to damage….but a necro or an engi or whatever can still apply conditions on them (you can’t apply conditions to an invulnerable ele or engi), so yes, warriors need a bit of help.

Shar.3402:

S/D eles > D/D eles anyway, and warriors are the most UP class right now (even necros are probably better and can fill some niche in teams)

also, Endure Pain is 5 seconds, makes you immune to damage….but a necro or an engi or whatever can still apply conditions on them (you can’t apply conditions to an invulnerable ele or engi), so yes, warriors need a bit of help.

well, a good “fix” could be making it invulnerability too but half the duration, or make it 3 like everybody else. Oh, and fun fact, even when invulnerable, if you apply conditions to an ele/engi/mesmer before they become invulnerable, the damage still ticks, and invulnerability lasts almsot half of what the warrior’s endure pain lasts (40% less, 5 seconds to 3 seconds is 40% less) so yeah, I would take the warriors endure pain most of the time over mist form if it wasnt because you cant be rooted while on it, but if you get rooted before you go into mist form you will stay there…rooted.

and no, I dont know who told you S/D is better than D/D, try landing a dragon’s tooth on a non-akf (invert f and k, apparently akitten is a bad word) player…

Lol what are you smoking SD ele is so freaking good so much burst damage AND has range compared to DD so your not always getting aoed … And staff is made for wvw zerging get it right … On that note warrior needs some more love tho burst dmg attribute in last tree is Garbo needs rework … Warrior heals are Garbo chill and cripple really only effects warrior the worst cuz all there gap closers get ruined .. They need to make that trait that removes immobilize remove all the other crap as well

fakeblood.2576:

Lol what are you smoking SD ele is so freaking good so much burst damage AND has range compared to DD so your not always getting aoed … And staff is made for wvw zerging get it right … On that note warrior needs some more love tho burst dmg attribute in last tree is Garbo needs rework … Warrior heals are Garbo chill and cripple really only effects warrior the worst cuz all there gap closers get ruined .. They need to make that trait that removes immobilize remove all the other crap as well

once again, most of the good plays in the S/D comes from the off-hand dagger, because the scepter pretty much all i does is set things up a bit, apply some burns for fire #5, or blind with #2 air to set up a uninterrupted #4 to #5 air, or earth #3 give some tankiness so you can do the #4 and #5 earth and survive. Once again, try landing dragons tooth (#2 fire) or a phoenix (3# fire) , heck the phoenix isnt even used for damage unless you are melee (once again, ranged is unviable) and it is used mostly for the cleanse effect rather than ranged DPS, or for quick burst melee because it is the only way to land it.

Once again, NO RANGED OPTIONS, this is what we are complaining about, the lack of " oh, i want to play ranged ele" , you are pretty much coined into D/D or melee S/D

considering D/D spec (0/10/0/30/30) and S/D spec (0/20/0/20/30), considering off-hand skills are the same for both sets, you’re left with the 1-3 skills

S/D got much higher burst (hurl + switch to air + lightning strike) than D/D (burning speed is the only real burst spell that weaponset has), and it’s so much easier to land/harder to dodge (it’s instant)
Dragon tooth is also great in team fights in small points like Niflhel’s Keep or Kyhlo’s Clocktower, you can’t dodge forever you know? and you can still rely on your team mates for CC…it’s a team game after all
Also, you can’t really run with double arcane as a D/D (you can afford maybe to run with arcane wave and 2 cantrips, mist form and lightning flash), you die too fast in competitive play, so that’s ~2k more burst for S/D ele.
It’s also easier to fight mesmers and bm rangers as S/D ele, since you can fight them at range.

D/D aurashare double arcane elementalists died when they nerfed evasive arcana, vigor/regen on cantrips and fixed zephir’s boon fury/swiftness duration, deal with it.

Also, S/D is so much better at bunkering (trident >>>>> cone of cold every day, plus you get +250 toughness from scepter earth 2, and you get 2 blinds…)

S/D is superior to D/D, period (and both are superior to staff in tPvP, but that’s a given). But, by all means, keep playing with the now inferior weapon set, I’m sure all those elementalists in good teams are just crazy for playing S/D now, and hot-join heroes are the real pros.

Do staff ele’s need a buff? Sure.

Do warriors and necros in general need a buff? Also yes.

Warriors and necros receive priority because they are lacking 1 build that can’t be outdone in its role by another class.

Oh, and lastly scepter is just fine quiet frankly, it sounds like it just doesn’t fill the role you want it to.

Shar.3402:

considering D/D spec (0/10/0/30/30) and S/D spec (0/20/0/20/30), considering off-hand skills are the same for both sets, you’re left with the 1-3 skills

S/D got much higher burst (hurl + switch to air + lightning strike) than D/D (burning speed is the only real burst spell that weaponset has), and it’s so much easier to land/harder to dodge (it’s instant)
Dragon tooth is also great in team fights in small points like Niflhel’s Keep or Kyhlo’s Clocktower, you can’t dodge forever you know? and you can still rely on your team mates for CC…it’s a team game after all
Also, you can’t really run with double arcane as a D/D (you can afford maybe to run with arcane wave and 2 cantrips, mist form and lightning flash), you die too fast in competitive play, so that’s ~2k more burst for S/D ele.
It’s also easier to fight mesmers and bm rangers as S/D ele, since you can fight them at range.

D/D aurashare double arcane elementalists died when they nerfed evasive arcana, vigor/regen on cantrips and fixed zephir’s boon fury/swiftness duration, deal with it.

Also, S/D is so much better at bunkering (trident >>>>> cone of cold every day, plus you get +250 toughness from scepter earth 2, and you get 2 blinds…)

S/D is superior to D/D, period (and both are superior to staff in tPvP, but that’s a given). But, by all means, keep playing with the now inferior weapon set, I’m sure all those elementalists in good teams are just crazy for playing S/D now, and hot-join heroes are the real pros.

You forgot the part where those scepter eles crumble if anyone so much as sneezes at them. They’re either in valkyrie or zerker to get that burst, the cooldowns for the burst sequence is way longer than thief or mesmer, and they rely on being babysat or peeled from to do their damage.

Most of them have no more than 15k HP, a D/P thief will pretty much 4-shot them.

Jonwar.9205:

Do staff ele’s need a buff? Sure.

Do warriors and necros in general need a buff? Also yes.

Warriors and necros receive priority because they are lacking 1 build that can’t be outdone in its role by another class.

Oh, and lastly scepter is just fine quiet frankly, it sounds like it just doesn’t fill the role you want it to.

oh, the good’ol condescending “it might not be for you, bro” argument, way to “solve” the problem……

Look, dont take offense on this, but nobody has the right to tell me whats not for me, I like eles, I really do, been my main and only since beta. I think I have as much right as anyone else to ask for deserved buffs. Is it too much to have a fully funtional DPS ranged weapons for ele? I think not.

Like I said on the beginning; Im not saying warriors nor necros dont need buffs, what im saying is that staff/scepter eles are being overlooked and I now know it is because one of the two “devs” (Evan) “enjoys playing his warrior” and cant stand being bursted, when eles share the same issue and even worse, they cant even 1v1 or 2v1 or 2v2 (in the devs own words) while warriors and necros ( they admitted ) are ok in those scenarios. No way around it, 2 people, 8 classes, of course there would be bias, the only thing is; the bias is not working out in my favor, D/D is still strong, but meanwhile all those nerfs to the D/D (water, arcana, dodge, healing, condition removal, aura nerfs…etc….etc etc…) has only nerfed the already bad staff, while getting absolutely nothing in return, and it aches me even more that they werent even mentioned, as a matter o fact, they were put as a high standard, comparing warriors as something you would like to have close to ele…. that, is NOT ok.

Jonwar.9205:

Do staff ele’s need a buff? Sure.

Do warriors and necros in general need a buff? Also yes.

Warriors and necros receive priority because they are lacking 1 build that can’t be outdone in its role by another class.

Oh, and lastly scepter is just fine quiet frankly, it sounds like it just doesn’t fill the role you want it to.

I think this is a fair answer. However, if the scepter isn’t going to receive better ranged capability, what will? The staff is clearly not intended to be effective in 1v1 scenarios, so can we expect a new weapon? A trait that changes the staff’s function entirely?

As it is, the Elementalist is quite possibly the most range-restricted class in the game next to the Guardian. Meanwhile, warriors and engineers, classes that are apparently intended to possess limited ranged capability, have some of the best in the game.

come on over to the ranged warrior capabilities buddy there’s lots of room let me just knock the dust off this chair so you can sit down.

I think nobody would disagree that staff eles need a buff and so does the fire and lightning trait lines.

Well the sotg is only 1 hour and I dont think they can address everyone’s concern. I see all the other prof ranting simply because it was all necro and warrior talk.

AlBundy.7851:

come on over to the ranged warrior capabilities buddy there’s lots of room let me just knock the dust off this chair so you can sit down.

The Warrior’s rifle is easily one of the most powerful and reliable ranged single-target damage weapons in the game. However, given the class’s lack of sustainability, I can certainly see that it is not ideal, as other weapon combinations offer greater damage and defense.

other than running a glass crit damage build and trying to gib someone with a frenzied volley or running a funky condi duration build linked to the confusion trait and using kick and rifle butt I don’t think rifle’s that great.

Unless you’re talking about some kind of 15k killshot glass build?

The thing about warrior invulnerabilities is that they still leave the warrior very vulnerable. Shield Stance? My necro will just switch to staff and hit right through his block. Endure pain? On a condition build I’d just ignore it, on a power build I’d cripple the warrior and wait for it to end. Trying to get away? With the amount of condition removal they have, my necromancer has no trouble keeping them snared and with no teleports etc they just can’t get away. Besides, it’s not like they have that great mobility to begin with.

Elementalists are in a good spot in that they have plenty of invulnerabilities, charge type skills (I’m looking at you, RTL), blocks, reflects, healing and even a teleport. Unlike warriors, I’ve seen a decent amount of S/D eles that seemed to work just fine. Maybe they could use a buff or D/D eles a nerf, but compared to warriors or even necromancers they are perfectly fine.

I mean, just look at the defensive options necromancers get and tell me S/D eles are having a hard time. If two decent players attack a lone necromancer there is absolutely nothing the necromancer can do to avoid dying while an ele has the luxury of choosing between multiple cantrips or they could just let their traits use one for them or they could simply use their superior mobility to get away.

I’m sorry to say this, but with all those tools at your disposal and having seen so many elementalists doing just fine with S/D it really does seem like a L2P issue.

Also, have you even looked at necromancer traits? Or anyone’s traits, for that matter? Everyone has traits they have to take for a certain kind of build. For instance, a necromancer with a staff has to take Greater Marks, just like an elementalist with a Staff has to take Blasting Wand. Perhaps it is more extreme when it comes to eles, and perhaps that should be changed, but do you really thing Anet should be focusing on that while entire professions (cough warriors cough) are simply unviable?

AlBundy.7851:

other than running a glass crit damage build and trying to gib someone with a frenzied volley or running a funky condi duration build linked to the confusion trait and using kick and rifle butt I don’t think rifle’s that great.

Unless you’re talking about some kind of 15k killshot glass build?

The Warrior’s rifle itself is extremely good, but the class is not.

I’m not concerned with the weapon’s effectiveness in sPvP, but rather that it allows for a ranged playstyle for warriors when the class design philosophy indicates that that should not be the case, and that elementalists do not have a comparable ranged weapon when their design philosophy states nothing as to their ranged capability.

so even though warriors have a great weapon that doesn’t work for the class at all your still upset cause the weapon belongs to warriors?

You know the class description for warriors said they have a sturdy body right. At this point we just need to get over the design philosophy nonsense and work with what we have and build on that.

Rifle is a very poor weapon all around the 1 attack is terrible, volley is a channeled attack which is terrible in spvp and easy to dodge, brutal shot has a ridiculous cast time for some reason, rifle but is a ridiculous bunny hop of a knockback and the burst ability is a slow motion movie.

So for the rifle we end up with a range cripple the only good ability.

And I have to ask do you even play guildwars 2?

Fortus.6175:

“…the warrior doesnt have a lot of ways to protect himself, he lacks the ways to reset his aggro as compared to a elementalist who has mist form or a thief who has steath….”

DISCLAIMER: Im not saying warriors dont need help, but please, PLEASE look into staff/scepters ele for once!
Look, you mentioned it yourself, " Evan loves to play his warrior" , I think I now comprehend where the bias comes from. You said that but, 5 second invulnerability in which you cant cast anything is a lot better than 3 seconds of invulnerability in which you cant cast anything either [elementalist].

Unless you are a D/D ele you wont be surviving a 5v5 focus either, i think that applies to a lot of classes, all I heard in the entire comversation was; “warriors need a lot of help, eles are ok, as long as you keep playing D/D and keep ignoring the already brokenly UP staff or scepter”.

Truth of the matter is; warriors are NOT as bad as staff/scepter eles are, can you PLEASE play them yourself a little bit and notice it?! A lot of people have been asking, BEGGING for some deserved buffs and all I see is this very obvious trend; warrior/thieves/mesmers keep getting all the goodies, while elementalists keep getting nerfed.

No, I dont want to play D/D ele, i dont wanna be forced to play that weapon because it is the only viable one, the only one that can “survive” and do something for the team other than occupy space. Please stop playing Evan’s favorite class and pay some attention to the other subforums.

[/rant]

edit; oh and necros

“we dont want to have too many key utilities, they cut into your build” yet if you go to elementalists traits you will see EVERYONE will HAVE to have arcana or water to be able to succeed, specially arcana, specially arcana VIII blasting wand which increases staff radius. I didnt take it by choice, I took it because i had no choice. Please, can we do some actual balancing for eles for once? getting really tired of this D/D deal, I dont want to play melee mage, I want a casters.

This is a good start to some suggestions; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Staff-Elementalist-state/first

and this is the best one yet; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist

Problem is that eles (Don’t care if you don’t want to play it, that’s your problem not anet’s) still have something effective to play (Actually A tier)…warriors aren’t effective, no matter what they play…that’s the difference..it’s like saying thief is bad because i want to go p/p in tpvp and i obviously suck…lolwhat?

And btw i don’t play warrior…

AlBundy.7851:

Rifle is a very poor weapon all around the 1 attack is terrible, volley is a channeled attack which is terrible in spvp and easy to dodge, brutal shot has a ridiculous cast time for some reason, rifle but is a ridiculous bunny hop of a knockback and the burst ability is a slow motion movie.

So for the rifle we end up with a range cripple the only good ability.

And I have to ask do you even play guildwars 2?

It has flaws, but that doesn’t prevent it from being one of the best ranged weapons in the game.
I can’t think of any non-condition damage weapon that is as reliable and powerful as a warrior’s rifle. Mesmers certainly have superb ranged capability, but that’s at least partly due to their class mechanics

Keep in mind that I am comparing it to other ranged weapons; if you believe the rifle to be poor, perhaps that indicates a problem in the design of ranged combat.

is this a grass is greener type thing?

AlBundy.7851:

is this a grass is greener type thing?

I thought you summed it up rather well with:

so even though warriors have a great weapon that doesn’t work for the class at all your still upset cause the weapon belongs to warriors?

I want something like the rifle for my ele, and I don’t see a reason I can’t have it. That’s really all there is to it.

I’m down to switch weapons warrior’s are searching for anything atm might as well play the field

since when mages must be ranged? is there a written law? and also, scepter is bad? what? just because you don’t like the way it plays doesnt mean its bad. and if you hate d/d ele so much just try some other class, its not like you have to level them up. for all you know in 6 months d/d-s/d ele will be dead and staff eles will be the new fotm and you will be an happy man. Its ridiculous you coming here complaining about attention given to a class with little to no representation in tournaments and then asking for attention to a class that 1 month ago was the absolute best class in the game and still is in nearly every team comp. And guess what, necros cant play melee, should i start a thread about? thief cant play pure ranged, should i start a thread about it?

the devs play everything, they arent really biased — they do have bad judgement and use sub optimal strategies the chalk their loss up to a lack of individual skill instead of the bad split they used.

no, mages dont have to be ranged, but I cant see why I cant have the option to be ranged. Having to go melee usually means you have to be running a lot of defense, in eles case it means you have to take at least 20/30 points on water and arcana, that it self cuts into S/D, which i previously discussed and wont do it again (please read the entire post nefore leaving a comment).

Lots of you are talking about things I already covered, please read the entire thing, I dont like to repeat mysel. Anyways, not all the people here are a coordinated, high ranking team that want to be in the very top. There will always be the most viable classes, then there will be the medium, and then the crappy tier. There is such thing called; solo queue and also medium-skills players.

Warriors and necros do perfectly fine in those scenarios, even the devs themselves agreed on that one. Earlier someone mentioned; “im looking at you RtL” once again, STAFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF , my goodness, READ, MAYBE? another prson mentioned “2 decent playes vs a necro”, im sorry, but tell me what decent player can survive a coordinated 2 player gank and come alive with a double kill? And dont tell me D/D ele, because as good as they are now, if the enemies are as “decent” as you made them out to be, then they would kill the ele or force him to retreat, no problem, also, once again, and cant repeat it enough time, I know D/D is strong, it is the same strenght that is pulling our weight, until D/D gets some nerfs and people start playing staff scepter again, the class will remains the same because devs dont care about weapon viability, only class “representation”.

Fortus.6175:

no, mages dont have to be ranged, but I cant see why I cant have the option to be ranged. Having to go melee usually means you have to be running a lot of defense, in eles case it means you have to take at least 20/30 points on water and arcana, that it self cuts into S/D, which i previously discussed and wont do it again (please read the entire post nefore leaving a comment).

Lots of you are talking about things I already covered, please read the entire thing, I dont like to repeat mysel. Anyways, not all the people here are a coordinated, high ranking team that want to be in the very top. There will always be the most viable classes, then there will be the medium, and then the crappy tier. There is such thing called; solo queue and also medium-skills players.

Warriors and necros do perfectly fine in those scenarios, even the devs themselves agreed on that one. Earlier someone mentioned; “im looking at you RtL” once again, STAFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF , my goodness, READ, MAYBE? another prson mentioned “2 decent playes vs a necro”, im sorry, but tell me what decent player can survive a coordinated 2 player gank and come alive with a double kill? And dont tell me D/D ele, because as good as they are now, if the enemies are as “decent” as you made them out to be, then they would kill the ele or force them to retreat, no problem, also, once again, and cant repeat it enough time, I know D/D is strong, it is the same strenght that is pulling our weight, until D/D gets some nerfs and people start playing staff scepter again, the class will remains the same because devs dont care about weapon viability, only class “representation”.

1st, d/d gets just the same usage as s/d, stop acting like scepter sucks.
2nd, necromancer and warrior are even worse in soloqueue. both these classes need their teams too coordinate on order to do their job. a warrior is more dependent on his team playing well than in his own skill. necros are dependent on good teamfight setups and you rarelly get that queueing solo. both classes need a team comp built around their skills.
3rd, what you fail to understand is that while other weapons suck for eles, they have one weapon set/build that really puts them in a relevant tier. warriors have zero. and while things are like this, warriors should be the priority.

Um. Necromancers can’t retreat usually, so this is interesting to hear it talked about. And also, why are you crying for D/D to be nerfed? That will just pidgeonhole the class into a new weapon, Staff or scepter. What you want is variety of weapons, and its understood. However, Warrior doesn’t really stand out or do well with any weapon. Do you not see a problem here? While its not your playstyle to go in melee, you have to realize that the play style you are opting out of does do well and better than most. Im pretty sure the class will get looked at, because even as a Necromancer I hope Ele Staff gets some love. But, the devs do have their priorities, and losing a few is outweighed by losing the participation of a whole class. And don’t tell me people will just move over to other classes. it doesn’t usually happen that way. Certainly didn’t for me. just adapted.

Scepter has a few underpowered skills, especially the first two in water. Sooner or later, they’ll need to get buffed. If Scepter becomes too strong by then, something else ill have to be nerfed.

However, mh dagger is far more “polished”. While Scepter has a pretty strong burst combo (taking into consideration runes, sigils and traits), everything else about it ranges between average to underwhelming. Sure, when we take the whole thing, it’s a viable weapon (IF coupled with a ver specific trait/ sigil/ utility burst combo), but in comparison, pretty much all mh dagger skills are pretty good, which makes mh dagger feel more robust and polished, design-wise. Scepter’s skills feel very uneven.

However, focus and staff NEED something more urgently. I believe the staff can be viable simply with an extra damage buff outside of fire (attention: it doesn’t needs to be a lot, but some nonetheless), but focus is underwhelming in numbers, uneven in skills (some are a little bit stronger than they probably should, most of them are weaker than they should) AND a bit too conditional.

Even though warriors and necros should definitely be a priority, it’s annoying to players when they spend almost an year playing with the same builds, because there’s little else to offer. Especially for a profession that is universally attractive (and marketed) for its “destructive” and “large-scale” power, and then iconic weapons are underwhelming, and viable builds are by far bunkers (with a nearly-instant burst build exception).

Imagine how thieves would react, if for 9 months, not a single burst build was viable for them. Imagine if they were stuck to a… to give a random example, a defensive party support build without stealth/ without burst, for a year. Sure, it’s cool and all for those who like that type of play, but it would not meet the expectations for a good portion of the fanbase that would pick a thief.

So again, necros and warriors should definitely be a priority now, but it has been many months. Anet has been very slow at buffing alternative builds, because they want to clean the house first, and make sure the current meta is fine as it is. But, as it is normal with balancing a game, estabilishing a decent meta takes a whiiiiiiiiiiile, and is sometimes a never-ending process.

I can udnerstand that they don’t want to throw random buffs and suddenly make underpowered skills overpowered. But I and many people wold enjoy if their buffs came more frequently, no matter how small they could be.

i’m sorry but that’s not 5 sec of invulnerability thats 5 sec of block which can be unblocked and can be CC’ed
and your mist form can move fast and is a true invulnerability, also not like reviving a teammate or flag a down enemy are sometime you can’t do, not to mention it’s stunbreak

Fortus.6175:

Shar.3402:

S/D eles > D/D eles anyway, and warriors are the most UP class right now (even necros are probably better and can fill some niche in teams)

also, Endure Pain is 5 seconds, makes you immune to damage….but a necro or an engi or whatever can still apply conditions on them (you can’t apply conditions to an invulnerable ele or engi), so yes, warriors need a bit of help.

well, a good “fix” could be making it invulnerability too but half the duration, or make it 3 like everybody else. Oh, and fun fact, even when invulnerable, if you apply conditions to an ele/engi/mesmer before they become invulnerable, the damage still ticks, and invulnerability lasts almsot half of what the warrior’s endure pain lasts (40% less, 5 seconds to 3 seconds is 40% less) so yeah, I would take the warriors endure pain most of the time over mist form if it wasnt because you cant be rooted while on it, but if you get rooted before you go into mist form you will stay there…rooted.

and no, I dont know who told you S/D is better than D/D, try landing a dragon’s tooth on a non-akf (invert f and k, apparently akitten is a bad word) player…

Yes, you would obviously take endure pain anytime, because you obviously don’t lack any condition cleansing like warrior, you obviously like to have conditions applied on you when you have it activated, you obviously like to have cripple speed while have it on because obviously your d/d ele have attack range of a melee warrior and you obviously like to get hit by unblockables and get CC’ed while you have it on. Nice!

What’s with all these NA eles thinking S/D dps is subpar? Sure it’s tougher to play than multiple cantrips but its still more than viable with the damage it does.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Scepter has a few underpowered skills, especially the first two in water. Sooner or later, they’ll need to get buffed. If Scepter becomes too strong by then, something else ill have to be nerfed.

However, mh dagger is far more “polished”. While Scepter has a pretty strong burst combo (taking into consideration runes, sigils and traits), everything else about it ranges between average to underwhelming. Sure, when we take the whole thing, it’s a viable weapon (IF coupled with a ver specific trait/ sigil/ utility burst combo), but in comparison, pretty much all mh dagger skills are pretty good, which makes mh dagger feel more robust and polished, design-wise. Scepter’s skills feel very uneven.

However, focus and staff NEED something more urgently. I believe the staff can be viable simply with an extra damage buff outside of fire (attention: it doesn’t needs to be a lot, but some nonetheless), but focus is underwhelming in numbers, uneven in skills (some are a little bit stronger than they probably should, most of them are weaker than they should) AND a bit too conditional.

Even though warriors and necros should definitely be a priority, it’s annoying to players when they spend almost an year playing with the same builds, because there’s little else to offer. Especially for a profession that is universally attractive (and marketed) for its “destructive” and “large-scale” power, and then iconic weapons are underwhelming, and viable builds are by far bunkers (with a nearly-instant burst build exception).

Imagine how thieves would react, if for 9 months, not a single burst build was viable for them. Imagine if they were stuck to a… to give a random example, a defensive party support build without stealth/ without burst, for a year. Sure, it’s cool and all for those who like that type of play, but it would not meet the expectations for a good portion of the fanbase that would pick a thief.

So again, necros and warriors should definitely be a priority now, but it has been many months. Anet has been very slow at buffing alternative builds, because they want to clean the house first, and make sure the current meta is fine as it is. But, as it is normal with balancing a game, estabilishing a decent meta takes a whiiiiiiiiiiile, and is sometimes a never-ending process.

I can udnerstand that they don’t want to throw random buffs and suddenly make underpowered skills overpowered. But I and many people wold enjoy if their buffs came more frequently, no matter how small they could be.

pretty much this.

I have been quiet for all this time, leaving civilized posts on the ele forums, but this is outrageous at tis point, every class has had their shinning moment, please dont tell me you have forgotten of the old warrior charging in and killing you in the blink of a second with 100b and quickness, or the GS guardian rolling everyone, or the confusion mesmer making you commit suicide.

It has been almost a year, how would YOU like it if for that entire time you were completely useless? Like I said, I got tired of suggesting and hoping a dev sees the thing; now im demanding, since it seems thats what works. Worked for warriors, worked for necros, they got their attention. It is like that old saying;

“niño que no llora, no mama” – “kid that doesnt cry, doesnt get nursed”

Fortus.6175:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Scepter has a few underpowered skills, especially the first two in water. Sooner or later, they’ll need to get buffed. If Scepter becomes too strong by then, something else ill have to be nerfed.

However, mh dagger is far more “polished”. While Scepter has a pretty strong burst combo (taking into consideration runes, sigils and traits), everything else about it ranges between average to underwhelming. Sure, when we take the whole thing, it’s a viable weapon (IF coupled with a ver specific trait/ sigil/ utility burst combo), but in comparison, pretty much all mh dagger skills are pretty good, which makes mh dagger feel more robust and polished, design-wise. Scepter’s skills feel very uneven.

However, focus and staff NEED something more urgently. I believe the staff can be viable simply with an extra damage buff outside of fire (attention: it doesn’t needs to be a lot, but some nonetheless), but focus is underwhelming in numbers, uneven in skills (some are a little bit stronger than they probably should, most of them are weaker than they should) AND a bit too conditional.

Even though warriors and necros should definitely be a priority, it’s annoying to players when they spend almost an year playing with the same builds, because there’s little else to offer. Especially for a profession that is universally attractive (and marketed) for its “destructive” and “large-scale” power, and then iconic weapons are underwhelming, and viable builds are by far bunkers (with a nearly-instant burst build exception).

Imagine how thieves would react, if for 9 months, not a single burst build was viable for them. Imagine if they were stuck to a… to give a random example, a defensive party support build without stealth/ without burst, for a year. Sure, it’s cool and all for those who like that type of play, but it would not meet the expectations for a good portion of the fanbase that would pick a thief.

So again, necros and warriors should definitely be a priority now, but it has been many months. Anet has been very slow at buffing alternative builds, because they want to clean the house first, and make sure the current meta is fine as it is. But, as it is normal with balancing a game, estabilishing a decent meta takes a whiiiiiiiiiiile, and is sometimes a never-ending process.

I can udnerstand that they don’t want to throw random buffs and suddenly make underpowered skills overpowered. But I and many people wold enjoy if their buffs came more frequently, no matter how small they could be.

pretty much this.

I have been quiet for all this time, leaving civilized posts on the ele forums, but this is outrageous at tis point, every class has had their shinning moment, please dont tell me you have forgotten of the old warrior charging in and killing you in the blink of a second with 100b and quickness, or the GS guardian rolling everyone, or the confusion mesmer making you commit suicide.

It has been almost a year, how would YOU like it if for that entire time you were completely useless? Like I said, I got tired of suggesting and hoping a dev sees the thing; now im demanding, since it seems thats what works. Worked for warriors, worked for necros, they got their attention. It is like that old saying;

“niño que no llora, no mama” – “kid that doesnt cry, doesnt get nursed”

but … but… i thought eles was shining for a dam long time and is still on it’s shining moment…or are all of those eles in top team matches just some useless place holders? or did you mean that you have been quiet for all this time, because for all this time, eles are one of the best pvp classes and highly placed in top team matches?.please enlighten me with your superior knowledge. oh wait, you didn’t even respond to my previous comment. i guess it’s just another “make our already good class more OP and ignore those stupid bad bad class, because i don’t care and don’t play it, cry cry cry”

Fortus.6175:

Defektive.7283:

Warriors aren’t even viable and yet you want them to refocus their attention on extra builds for classes that are already at the top of the food chain… lets at least get every class 1 viable tPvP build.

extra builds? i dont know what kind of games you have played before, but mages generally speaking have been casters, caster dont go into melee, casters dont wear 2 daggers unless they are ceremonial daggers.

Yeah and Rangers only use bows, and the only people that wear clerics amulets are healers. This isn’t a game like any of us have played before so don’t treat it that way.

Fortus.6175:

every class has had their shinning moment, please dont tell me you have forgotten of the old warrior charging in and killing you in the blink of a second with 100b and quickness, or the GS guardian rolling everyone, or the confusion mesmer making you commit suicide.

You also have a weird memory. I remember a time when it wasn’t strange to have three ele’s on a team because their sustain + damage meant that having any other kind of bunker was totally useless. Stop looking at the world through rose tinted glasses.

Fortus.6175:

every class has had their shinning moment, please dont tell me you have forgotten of the old warrior charging in and killing you in the blink of a second with 100b and quickness

That was only in the betas and the 1st week of release. Once decent players got a hold of the game not the scrubs who played the betas that warrior owning and it’s whole build was negated by a decent player using one dodge and then that warrior had to wait for 55 seconds to be able to do anything in the match.

I despise beta players that make videos of games all they do is drum up the hype and are essentially unpaid marketing scumbags for game companies now.

Way to dredge up an irrelevant part of the game’s history there might be a few people left in this game that will join you in a pity party for eles. I’d be mad too if after 7 months of god mode faceroll d/d and before that strong staff builds I was forced to play another way that’s only slightly less effective.

I think scepter ele is still viable, but i agree with you on the staff.
From my experience condi warriors are pretty dangerous… A single skill (pin down) does 15k damage… Then theres the seord offhand with more bleeding. I also run 0 condi removal. After surving the pin down id have 1k hp left in wvw and 3k in Spvp. Its not overpowered or anything, but its viable in a 1vs1 when you dont havecondition removals.

hi Fortus, i do tpvp with ele, mesmer and warrior, and i disagree with you.
I’m actually running a glass cannon build on my ele with scepter and FOCUS, and it works awesome in a roamer role.
On the other hand, my team dont want me to go with warrior in tpvp, because “ele and mesmer are better in everything”
So i think Defektive is right, ele is not a priority when we talk about buffs.

Alissah.9281:

I think scepter ele is still viable, but i agree with you on the staff.
From my experience condi warriors are pretty dangerous… A single skill (pin down) does 15k damage… Then theres the seord offhand with more bleeding. I also run 0 condi removal. After surving the pin down id have 1k hp left in wvw and 3k in Spvp. Its not overpowered or anything, but its viable in a 1vs1 when you dont havecondition removals.

If you have zero condi removals then you either have an AMAZING team who all have sweet AOE peels, or youre playing hotjoin and have a death wish

Thing is that if we have to wait for warrior to get fixed before ele gets his own kitten fixed …we are in for a looooong wait :P
D/d for the win btw!!!!So much flashier.Anet needs to nerf scepter to the ground (shatterstone ,dustdevil too op) so we can experience the greatness of d/d elementalist

@papagoonosh
Im an “above average player” so hot join doesnt give me much trouble.
But with my premade tourney team i run 0 condi removal aswell, and i rarely actually have problems. I usually support the mid point, jumping in and out of the fight, targeting people, setting up bursts and stuff. While im bursting i negate all damage, so i immediatally follow up by blinking ou of the fight and/or stealthig. Conditions arent much of an issue i find.
At the moment we have forest of nifhel for tourneys and the mid point is pretty great, after a burst, a phae retreat or blink can take me near the stairs and i can break line of sight. Then i wait for my burst to recharge and maybe put chaos storms, phantasms and those things. I also run the mirror heal and runes of air, so that helps me avoid damage aswell.
Im a mesmer by the way!

Alissah

Interesting! Maybe you could PM me your build I’d like to check it out

Wondering since when Scepter is not a viable weapon anymore . . .

thing is; when you put the staff and the scepter together, the scepter is better, but it isnt viable at range. Viable is; when the weapon itself couple with any other off-hand one is good.

Most of the raw damage and utility comes from the dagger off-hand, scepter merely sets up things for the dagger. Heck, I think focus is good enough (except for water and fire which are a little lackluster) and D/F is a funny build that “works” but doesnt flow well. Please people, analyze the weapon by itself, we have the fewer weapon options in the entire game, we cant switch weapons. Sure scepter is “Strong” but only because dagger is there. Once again, forces you to go into melee.

When I say scepter I mean ranged viability, im well aware that scepter is viable but only when you play melee with dagger (cant repeat this enough times…..here, let me do it again, scepter is viable only when plaed with dagger, meanin gyou have to go melee, and go into defense water/arcana). I want to be able to play ranged ELEMENTALIST. Staff DPS is a joke, S/F can be sidestepped. Yeah, I know guardians cant play ranged and they do fine, but at least they can survive melee with several tools and can build almost any trait tree and do just fine

Passing through to dispel the rumor that scepter doesn’t do good ranged damage.

Air #1 and #2 is some of the most viable ranged damage in the game right now. You won’t have to leave attunements till something gets close to you or someone goes down so you can land a bunch of fire spells on their downed body, so you just sit in air attunement until a reason arises to switch. The only reason elementalist use dagger off hand over focus is just because the focus is bad, not because we have to go into melee for some unknown reason.

Honestly if anything elementalists should feel forced into scepter rather than dagger main hand because against good teams you need the ranged damage.

I’m all for buffs to staff though!

^but if the ranged damage of scepter is one of best ingame as in its all you need to do something more than tickle ,then why focus is bad?.It offers more defence when you consider that you are in range .
I always thought and feel when i play that s/f is unviable cause it heavily reduces your damage out of proportion for the survaivability it offers.But s/f damage is s/d ranged damage.So i guess the way people here define “viable range damage” makes scepter fall short..Without firegrab,ring of fire earthquake and id even bring ce into the mix i dont think you can consider yourself a serious dps threat.Phoenix requires close range aswell for max effectiveness!
I personally couldnt care less since im in love with d/d atm ! But im pretty sure that air 2 eath 2 and air autoaattack cant kill anything at all alone :P
edit:of course i mean the above combo in repeat ..i dont expect earth – air to even come remotely to 1 shotting people ..lol

Phantaram.1265:

Passing through to dispel the rumor that scepter doesn’t do good ranged damage.

Air #1 and #2 is some of the most viable ranged damage in the game right now. You won’t have to leave attunements till something gets close to you or someone goes down so you can land a bunch of fire spells on their downed body, so you just sit in air attunement until a reason arises to switch. The only reason elementalist use dagger off hand over focus is just because the focus is bad, not because we have to go into melee for some unknown reason.

Honestly if anything elementalists should feel forced into scepter rather than dagger main hand because against good teams you need the ranged damage.

I’m all for buffs to staff though!

Yet I need to close in if I want to actually kill anyone, because once I switch to Air for double Lightning Strikes and use Arcane Blast, I need to stack Might and use skills like Phoenix, Fire Grab, and Earthquake to keep the pressure on.

I’m referring to 1v1 scenarios, because in a team fight you’re not the only one on the opponent, and you can actually maintain enough health to benefit from Vital Striking and Scholar runes.

kostbabis.8791:

^but if the ranged damage of scepter is one of best ingame as in its all you need to do something more than tickle ,then why focus is bad?.It offers more defence when you consider that you are in range .
I always thought and feel when i play that s/f is unviable cause it heavily reduces your damage out of proportion for the survaivability it offers.But s/f damage is s/d ranged damage.So i guess the way people here define “viable range damage” makes scepter fall short..Without firegrab,ring of fire earthquake and id even bring ce into the mix i dont think you can consider yourself a serious dps threat.Phoenix requires close range aswell for max effectiveness!
I personally couldnt care less since im in love with d/d atm ! But im pretty sure that air 2 eath 2 and air autoaattack cant kill anything at all alone :P
edit:of course i mean the above combo in repeat ..i dont expect earth – air to even come remotely to 1 shotting people ..lol

because Ring of Fire and Fire Grab >>> Flamewall and Fire Shield, because Frost Aura and Cleansing Wave >>> Freezing Gust and Comet, because Ride the Lightning and Updraft >>> Swirlwing Wind and Gale (seriously, this one has longer cd and is single target…wtf), because Earthquake and Churning Earth >>> Magnetic Wave and Obsidian Flesh (in a team situation of course, these are actually the only decent focus spells)

that’s why you use dagger offhand, more damage, more healing, more cc