Guild Wars 2

and Never get hit…….

play survival ranger and you will laugh whenever you see a burn guard.

80k damage and you died only once, so whats the problem? If you get dpsd 80k you die at least 5 times. Its the only damage your opponent has. And yes, getting to much damage is l2p

You’ve got 3 shouts on your bar, were you running trooper runes or a generosity sigil? Or were you just going full yolo and complaining that someone had the audacity to hit you?

yes, running generosity.

I actually got “Hit” 5 times… that went to 8o k burning?

Say what you will, all you come off as is a burning build trying to defend cheese.

Usse.2795:

yes, running generosity.

I actually got “Hit” 5 times… that went to 8o k burning?

Say what you will, all you come off as is a burning build trying to defend cheese.

That’s okay. You kinda come off as whiny, so I guess it’s all good. -Sid

Lose the argument in Logic, resort to personal attacks over the internet. You the man.

Usse.2795:

yes, running generosity.

I actually got “Hit” 5 times… that went to 8o k burning?

Say what you will, all you come off as is a burning build trying to defend cheese.

You brought a knife to a gun fight and now you’re complaining about it? You’ll have a much better time in PvP if you bring multiple sources of reliable condi clear.

Oh and dodge the highly telegraphed zealot’s flame if a pebble on the ground doesn’t obstruct it from hitting you. Sorry but it really is just L2P.

This pretty much illustrates why burning isn’t really OP, just mostly l2p issues. You have 1 transfer on generosity and expect to beat a build dedicated to conditions. That is just lol. It’s the same thing as a zerker s/d ele complaining they got one shot by a mesmer except that the ele lost at picking an amulet, you lost at picking traits.

from what i can see is you probably pass the PF too many times and get 3 stacks of burning on you

with average 3-4 stacks on you doing 1.3k dps
and probably lack of condi cleanse at the right moment

if you got hit 5 times than definitely take more condi cleanse utilities

Usse.2795:

yes, running generosity.

I actually got “Hit” 5 times… that went to 8o k burning?

Say what you will, all you come off as is a burning build trying to defend cheese.

So no trooper runes? You have 3 shouts and you are fully relying on a sigil to clear your condi’s and you are upset that a condi build beat you? And if you aren’t running trooper runes why the heck would you use “Protect Me” over SoS? You are already running marksmanship and another signet so picking up Brutish Seals would make sense for your build. Plus “Protect Me” prevents you from contesting a point, and running it with a bird is just kind of stupid.

As for me running a burn build or trying to “defend cheese”, you are more than welcome to check my post history. You’ll find it’s pretty clear that I main a power ranger. I absolutely wreck burn guards because they are a 1 trick pony that are easily countered. Frankly I am a little embarrassed to see a ranger complaining about them when you have so many tools available for dealing with them.

Usse.2795:

Say what you will, all you come off as is a burning build trying to defend cheese.

Usse.2795:

Lose the argument in Logic, resort to personal attacks over the internet. You the man.

GG

If Burn was op as you say, then I’m sure Anet would nerf it.

Just like they did nerf Dhuumfire in past.

You were also burning for 1 minute. What does that say about how survivable it is?

Dude… please at least tell me you’re using WK as to at least have a bit of condition removal with QZ, otherwise please shut up, if you have the audacity to run a glass cannon build with zero condition removal without knowing exactly what and how to dodge don’t expect to beat anyone with a sliver of condi damage.

You optimized this build against classes with heavy CC such as warrior at the cost of having little to no defense against conditions, if you want more survavility you’re gonna need to sacrifice stability and damage.

Tao.5096:

If Burn was op as you say, then I’m sure Anet would nerf it.

Just like they did nerf Dhuumfire in past.

Aah Wetfire is so soothing.

Just L2P right?

right

Being a player with ~2600 matches under my belt, and whom plays all of the classes and various builds on each class… I’m gonna go ahead and say holy flying kitten is burnguard OP even when fighting as a medi-guard with every condi-cleanse under the sun on ur bar, you have a hard time dealing with burn guards even 1 v 1

p.s. I’m not a bad medi-guard either(we basically lucked out in that match, if they had 1 more condi-focus char it woulda been gg-no-re)

RaGe.9834:

Being a player with ~2600 matches under my belt, and whom plays all of the classes and various builds on each class… I’m gonna go ahead and say holy flying kitten is burnguard OP even when fighting as a medi-guard with every condi-cleanse under the sun on ur bar, you have a hard time dealing with burn guards even 1 v 1

p.s. I’m not a bad medi-guard either(we basically lucked out in that match, if they had 1 more condi-focus char it woulda been gg-no-re)

You dealt 622k dmg and already 35k Condi-damage as a Mediguard. On the other hand you only recieved 110k condi damage.. that is less than 3x the condi dmg you did and not even 1/5 of the whole damage you did.

So I don’t see what in your screen makes burn-guard look op? That he got 20 more points? That’s pointless.. ba-dum-tss ^^

I’m pretty sure burn in pvp will be nerfed in the patch they said they would do 2 weeks before the release of leagues. I mean whether you are able to counter burns or not you gotta admit it’s a pretty op condition in pvp. We can only wait and see, if burns are nerfed in the future that means OP was right. Well in my opinion it will be nerfed eventually. Condis as a whole will probably be nerfed before leagues. Who wants to see competitive pvp with condi spam and cleanse everywhere:/ it would probably be quite boring. I think Anet will balance it abit to bring back some diversity instead of condi meta.

I think there is a difference if something is OP or if something is currently strong and will change with the next meta-patches. I think burn is currently strong and I also see it getting nerfed next.. but I absolutely don’t see it as OP.

Even if my signature stated Guard I play more classes and don’t care if I face a burn guard. I know how to play it so I know what to expect.. if he is better he wins, if not I win.

It doesn’t matter what gets nerfed. The only way to avoid having one technique being better than all the rest is to make every player play the exact same class with the exact same skills that all do the exact same thing.

You’d be bored to tears in no time. -Sid

Starfall.6425:

I think there is a difference if something is OP or if something is currently strong and will change with the next meta-patches. I think burn is currently strong and I also see it getting nerfed next.. but I absolutely don’t see it as OP.

Even if my signature stated Guard I play more classes and don’t care if I face a burn guard. I know how to play it so I know what to expect.. if he is better he wins, if not I win.

I think OP was just using the term OP as currently strong as you say it. It’s just his way of defining OP. After all we don’t all have the same understanding of the term OP. In my book OP and currently strong is the same. Although we can’t all agree on term usage, at least we agree that burn will get a change lol.

If a condition damage need to deal you 60k of damage with more or less other 15-20k of direct damage from different sources, it’s basically Not a OP damage.

OP can be if you with all the condi removal of the game will die in 5 seconds by burn. But it’s not the case.

If you run basicly without condition remove skills and find a pure condition damage build with a strong condition source like burn is (strong but not really OP) you can’t pretend to kill him!

Actually the game is a little unbalanced in favor of condition damage. Knowing that, if you don’t use at last 2 condi clean sources and don’t evade well the thelegraphed skills of the burning guardian, it’s only a L2P issue.

if you don’t want to change your build why it work well in different situations and you can kill some enemy easy you can still play it, but you have to know that a condition class can kill you easy why you totally lack of condition remove skills.

Tao.5096:

If Burn was op as you say, then I’m sure Anet would nerf it.

Lol, I had to laugh at this.

Usse.2795:

Lose the argument in Logic, resort to personal attacks over the internet. You the man.

He never lost the Logic argument because you never used a logic argument. (granted neither did he)

Your first post is nothing but a anecdote, moreover it’s a anecdote with no context. I could get 1v3’ed by three axe/axe warriors, and post a pic of the death log with all the axe damage and have the same validity as your first post.

Your second post is even worse because you tried cast anyone disagreeing with as “defending cheese” however not only is that base mudslinging, it’s not even good mudslinging because it requires the audience to indisputably agree that burning is cheese, which given the number of detractors in this thread, certainly is not a given.

Protect Me and…Bird? Really?

You need to use Drakes or Spiders with Protect Me. Bear’s are kinda useless in PvP, so we won’t go there.

Tao.5096:

If Burn was op as you say, then I’m sure Anet would nerf it.

Just like they did nerf Dhuumfire in past.

You forget ANet balance takes 6 month per patch and they are busy with HoT, and even when they do balance they mess things up to be worse than before patch.

Starfall.6425:

RaGe.9834:

Being a player with ~2600 matches under my belt, and whom plays all of the classes and various builds on each class… I’m gonna go ahead and say holy flying kitten is burnguard OP even when fighting as a medi-guard with every condi-cleanse under the sun on ur bar, you have a hard time dealing with burn guards even 1 v 1

p.s. I’m not a bad medi-guard either(we basically lucked out in that match, if they had 1 more condi-focus char it woulda been gg-no-re)

You dealt 622k dmg and already 35k Condi-damage as a Mediguard. On the other hand you only recieved 110k condi damage.. that is less than 3x the condi dmg you did and not even 1/5 of the whole damage you did.

So I don’t see what in your screen makes burn-guard look op? That he got 20 more points? That’s pointless.. ba-dum-tss ^^

Could be that he did all that to you know the other 4 people and took the 110k from one guy whenever he showed up.

Usse.2795:

Lose the argument in Logic, resort to personal attacks over the internet. You the man.

You’ll soon learn that most people who defend burn builds resort to personal attacks very quickly. Burn is obviously broken and they are just trying to deflect that fact.

I play Necromancer… I have about 800 games (not as much as many of you, however my job is generally to hold a point by myself so I have extensive experience in 1vX and have to look inward for blame on losses rather then outward).

Us Necromancers like to say we eat Guardians for breakfast – and we usually do – however we often make the mistake of assuming that that is enough to convince others who don’t have the luxury of time that burns are fine… well they are and I will break it down for you.

Your average burn guardian in a 1v1 fight can only output two bursts of burn… a good one can do three. However the Necromancer isn’t a hard counter to burn Guardians and there is counter play on both sides. Nine stacks of burn will kill a Necromancer just as fast as any other class and that rare Guardian who can do three full stacks of nine in a row makes us rage just as much as the rest of you… however we have the luxury of longer fights against most classes in general so we know how this happens, how it works, and why it is balanced.

Burns are not just apply and forget, the Guardian needs to know the class they are fighting and if they do it may very well seem like they are applying an ungodly number of burns but in reality that is not what is happening. In the case of a Necromancer a Guardian will try to bait one of the two guaranteed transfers and then blind / block / shield the second. In the case of other classes they interrupt the cleanse or tease out the burns to get you to waste a cleanse on a stack of four burns when they have nine waiting to be applied afterwards.

In group fights it is hard to keep track of these things… especially when they coordinate CC’s with their team mates (something a Necromancer can’t do much to deal with at all). In a 1v2 I can wait for 11 stacks of burn and then one shot the Guardian’s ally with a transfer… however in a 4v4 you need to cleanse those burns ASAP and that is where burn Guardian’s really shine because you can’t keep track of how many burn bursts they’ve done in the past fifteen seconds or if you have a blind, etc.

I apologize for the patronizing tone of this post… while I tend to be sarcastic and trollish in this instance it isn’t intended but I don’t have a better way to word this.

regarding burn on guard
i duel dragon hunter burning build with my p/p thief with almost no condi cleanse
if you dodge the right skill its a secure win
if he sneak on you with JI out of nowhere and you dont have cleanse rdy you are doom to die
the average i get stacking versus burn guard is 3-4 stacks which just generosity cleanse them
but when 2 burn guard JI to me i am dead

regarding the OP i think its more L2P issue when to dodge PF or other skills.
burning need little but less staking maybe 2 on PF and not 3 etc…

I’m on this with Schurge. Necromancer here too (thousands of games, more for fun than competition though).

I wreck your average burn guard that mindlessly apply maximum burn stacks all at once and doesn’t protect himself, or just block afterwards while I use my unblockable transfer. But a so-called e-sport game won’t be balance around that.

Dealing with a skillful guard is completely different: he pays attention to my signet, wait that I leave staff to apply a small burst before using a block/aegis and, being cautious, wins the attrition war (look, I refrain from ranting about that, I deserve praise).

Burn guard, as shown at ESL, is also quite capable at top level, even in team fights… So much for those “l2p and bring condi cleanse”. The burst of this condition is so intense that, by the time it’s cleansed, it has already put enough pressure to be worthwhile, as high level teams are always aware of ele’s rotation to spike at the right time.

I believe that shortly after HoT, a balance pass will shave condi, cleanse, burst and active defense. Power creep has never been healthy, and there’s already too much of everything.

Tao.5096:

If Burn was op as you say, then I’m sure Anet would nerf it.

Just like they did nerf Dhuumfire in past.

You confuse things. Dhuumfire got basically deleted cuz it was on necro and nobody wants things like necro, ranger to ever be too strong.

Now that burn is overpowered but unavailable in way necro can really benefit from it, it’s all good. I’m not saying burn guard or engi are overpowered, but the condition itself is pretty broken.
OP: Run signet of stone not protect me. There is only 1 thing you can reliably dodge on burn guard and that’s the torch throw. Maybe purging flames depending on how clever they are with it.

Schurge.5194:

Burns are not just apply and forget, the Guardian needs to know the class they are fighting and if they do it may very well seem like they are applying an ungodly number of burns but in reality that is not what is happening. In the case of a Necromancer a Guardian will try to bait one of the two guaranteed transfers and then blind / block / shield the second. In the case of other classes they interrupt the cleanse or tease out the burns to get you to waste a cleanse on a stack of four burns when they have nine waiting to be applied afterwards.

In group fights it is hard to keep track of these things… especially when they coordinate CC’s with their team mates (something a Necromancer can’t do much to deal with at all). In a 1v2 I can wait for 11 stacks of burn and then one shot the Guardian’s ally with a transfer… however in a 4v4 you need to cleanse those burns ASAP and that is where burn Guardian’s really shine because you can’t keep track of how many burn bursts they’ve done in the past fifteen seconds or if you have a blind, etc.

I apologize for the patronizing tone of this post… while I tend to be sarcastic and trollish in this instance it isn’t intended but I don’t have a better way to word this.

Finaly some one who knows the class.

There are two different condi guard players roaming around in spvp. The ones who spam their high cd skills and hope it doesn’t get cleansed, while the better condi guards can out-play classes like the signet necro – even in tough skirmish mid fights where we know our burns could kill our own team. These burn guardians are also getting better at other encounters, sometimes demolishing mediocre casual pvp players.

There are still more bad condi guardians than good ones but that’s not to say something doesn’t need fixing. I just don’t want the class to be absolutely useless in TPvP where we already have trouble against these high tier team compositions. Not to mention 1v1 situations – burn guardians are still not the best in this realm in TPvP play.

Ara.4569:

I believe that shortly after HoT, a balance pass will shave condi, cleanse, burst and active defense. Power creep has never been healthy, and there’s already too much of everything.

Actually HoT is bringing in more classes that can manipulate conditions. There’s going to be less burn guards and more everything else. We’ll just have to wait and see what’s trully OP and what’s just right.

yeah come on we all know you need to cripple your own build and fill your utility bar with as many clears as you can and take defensive only traits that condi clear becaus only then can your mesmer-warrior-nero-ranger be viable especially when not fighting burn guards….

if i go necro i hardly see the condi guard come to do some team fight against me as he know i can be more painful
while i am trying to push the fight to him with transfer.
but nevertheless with good burst a smart condi guard can control the point and take 1-2 downs. but also a power guard as well. just bait the defenses of the enemy and burst

glaphen.5230:

Starfall.6425:

You dealt 622k dmg and already 35k Condi-damage as a Mediguard. On the other hand you only recieved 110k condi damage.. that is less than 3x the condi dmg you did and not even 1/5 of the whole damage you did.

So I don’t see what in your screen makes burn-guard look op? That he got 20 more points? That’s pointless.. ba-dum-tss ^^

Could be that he did all that to you know the other 4 people and took the 110k from one guy whenever he showed up.

That is why I mentioned that the burn dmg was not even 1/5 the dmg OP dealt. So statistically he dealt more physikal dmg to each opponent than the burn guard dealt condi-dmg to each opponent (assuming he didn’t do significantly less dmg to OP). Also he already dealt 1/3 of the condi dmg he recived even without going for condi dmg. If you look at all the numbers the burn guard was not OP, so I don’t understand OP’s picture.

Its ridiculous to defend burning guardians at the moment imo.
Its a instant kill and its unfair..
Ofc and i bring cond removal but dont you find the irony into suggesting a player keeping any active cond removal for the moment they face a burning guardian. Or picking a bunch of cond removal skills, traits, sigils and runes just to be prepared to fight a guardian that will apply you 14 stack of burning the moment he takes a glimpse at you..
Its ridiculous to ask players to build around countering a single class cause other way you are dead for sure…

If you get instant killed its your fault. A dps guardian will do the same to you xD
I played med guard against burn guardians and they die. I play mesmer, thief against burn guardian and they die if they are not better in playstyle than me. They are not op at all.
You can kill them in 1v1 without condiremoves, thats even some kind of beeing underpowred imo.

Tux kitten inguin.3049:

If you get instant killed its your fault. A dps guardian will do the same to you xD
I played med guard against burn guardians and they die. I play mesmer, thief against burn guardian and they die if they are not better in playstyle than me. They are not op at all.
You can kill them in 1v1 without condiremoves, thats even some kind of beeing underpowred imo.

Excuse me..
How can you survive when you have 14 stacks of burning on you and no cd on cond removal?How dont you get insta dead?
I usually take 6 stacks, ill admit that…

Still i find myself many times with those stacks of burning, full life and no cond removal cd thinking " well i cant do a kitten, ill just wait to die here "…

No thief ever did to me, even when i had like 2k armor.. i could still run, i could hide, i could do something.
With guards is “oh you didnt dodge my teleport ultra OP skill that its instant and there was no obvious animation, hmmm to bad, take now 6 stacks of burning and die in the corner”

Dardamaniac.1295:

Excuse me..
How can you survive when you have 14 stacks of burning on you and no cd on cond removal?

That means you got hit by both Zealot’s flames and everything else the guard has to offer actively and passivly on burn.
I can also stand in front of a zerk warrior and let myself hit by 2×100 blades… I think I’m dead then too.

The only excuse to have 14 stacks is if you run over Purging flams multiple times to transfer back 14 stacks an watch him squirm.

Yes I know that in a normal game it is easier to hit zealots than 100-blades and that is why burnguard is so strong in lower tiers, but the better the enemy the harder it is to condi-burst them.

This thread shows me that Ranger survivability definitely needs to be toned down a bit.

Dardamaniac.1295:

Its ridiculous to defend burning guardians at the moment imo.
Its a instant kill and its unfair..
Ofc and i bring cond removal but dont you find the irony into suggesting a player keeping any active cond removal for the moment they face a burning guardian. Or picking a bunch of cond removal skills, traits, sigils and runes just to be prepared to fight a guardian that will apply you 14 stack of burning the moment he takes a glimpse at you..
Its ridiculous to ask players to build around countering a single class cause other way you are dead for sure…

As Necromancer with double Plague Signet – I see nothing wrong with Burn Guardians, Elementalists. Torchtrap Rangers or Burnbow Warriors.

Hence, I request increase in damage output for Burn.

So those silly beings can die faster.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

This thread shows me that Ranger survivability definitely needs to be toned down a bit.

Inc survival nerf. Lol

Also this is super great. After the patch to burning 90% of the vocal playerbase was against how potent conditions have become compared to before. Got verbally assaulted quite a few times in game for running “cheese” builds because people just did not want to adapt.

Now it seems the condi-haters are the minority and that is great. Diversity is healthy for the game and I’m SO happy that conditions should be considered when meta-gaming now.

Conditions for president.

Burn guards are super easy to counter and outlast if you’re properly traited and set up to deal with it. If you’re not, you melt almost instantly. There’s no middle-ground so I think that’s why this particular setup creates so much controversy.

Burn guard is basically 100b + quickness + bull rush warrior from GW2 launch (before 100b and quickness were severely beaten with the nerf stick) — it destroys unprepared people and gets laughed at by others. Overall, it’s not good for the game since it results in arguments on the forums and in-game.

If a build is creating toxicity among the player base, it needs to be looked at. This includes all other builds that create a lot of toxicity among players. Anet has been good about fixing such builds in the past, such as 100 nade engi, 100b warrior, S/D evade spam thief, etc. Every one of the previously toxic builds had people that defended them and said they were balanced. They might have been, but they created toxic arguments everywhere and made PvP a terrible place to play.

Kharr.5746:

Burn guards are super easy to counter and outlast if you’re properly traited and set up to deal with it. If you’re not, you melt almost instantly. There’s no middle-ground so I think that’s why this particular setup creates so much controversy.

Burn guard is basically 100b + quickness + bull rush warrior from GW2 launch (before 100b and quickness were severely beaten with the nerf stick) — it destroys unprepared people and gets laughed at by others. Overall, it’s not good for the game since it results in arguments on the forums and in-game.

If a build is creating toxicity among the player base, it needs to be looked at. This includes all other builds that create a lot of toxicity among players. Anet has been good about fixing such builds in the past, such as 100 nade engi, 100b warrior, S/D evade spam thief, etc. Every one of the previously toxic builds had people that defended them and said they were balanced. They might have been, but they created toxic arguments everywhere and made PvP a terrible place to play.

Every time one of those builds was nerfed the same qq’ers would focus on something else to cry about.
You said it yourself, the build is easily countered. Nerfing something because certain people would rather cry than adapt isn’t a good way to balance a game. Builds should only be nerfed when they are legitimately over powered.

I’d be lying if I said I’ve never been downed by burn guards. But I’ve gotten downed by physical damage for far far far far more since June update than burn damage coming from non pre nerf RoF eles.

Sorry if I confused you. But burn damage is manageable.

Sometimes I would invade 1v1 servers and go against burn guards on either my warrior or rangers. Dayyum they cant even touch me.

Saiyan.1704:

Actually HoT is bringing in more classes that can manipulate conditions. There’s going to be less burn guards and more everything else. We’ll just have to wait and see what’s trully OP and what’s just right.

Only new class that manipulates conditions is Revenants condition build which plays the same as a transfer Necromancer. Can’t do it without the trait line though so you need to build around it not just take the form.

Kharr.5746:

Burn guards are super easy to counter and outlast if you’re properly traited and set up to deal with it. If you’re not, you melt almost instantly. There’s no middle-ground so I think that’s why this particular setup creates so much controversy.

Burn guard is basically 100b + quickness + bull rush warrior from GW2 launch (before 100b and quickness were severely beaten with the nerf stick) — it destroys unprepared people and gets laughed at by others. Overall, it’s not good for the game since it results in arguments on the forums and in-game.

If a build is creating toxicity among the player base, it needs to be looked at. This includes all other builds that create a lot of toxicity among players. Anet has been good about fixing such builds in the past, such as 100 nade engi, 100b warrior, S/D evade spam thief, etc. Every one of the previously toxic builds had people that defended them and said they were balanced. They might have been, but they created toxic arguments everywhere and made PvP a terrible place to play.

Did you ever stop to think those people are “toxic” and bad for the game, not the builds? People will complain, that is the nature of the beast. That doesn’t mean you should give into the mob just so you can have more pleasant map chat.

I have news for you, getting a long is not the natural state of humanity. Builds don’t create “toxicity” – “toxicity” is already there.

There’s too much spam of everything.

A burning guardian may spam too much burning. But then there’s others professions that can spam too many condition removals in too little time.

The pace of the game has gotten too fast. Strategy is gone. Now it’s about who can spam and stack the most of anything in the least time while running around aimlessly like a headless chicken.

Spam boons, spam CC, spam conditions, spam dodges. Spam, spam, spammity spam.

You miss with one heavy-hitting skill? It’ll recharge in no time, and there’s another right after that. Nothing is really lost. No energy pressure to save energy for other things like in GW1 in most professions. Practically only revenant has a decent pace thanks to the combination of energy and recharges. With revenants there’s choice, there’s order. There’s rythm.

Only recharges, people spam on recharge. Only a resource like initiative, and people can can just use the same skill repeatedly until they run out of the resource.

There’s no effect or mechanic that makes you choose between moving and standing still, like taking less damage or doing more damage when standing still than on the move.

And so builds naturally fall to whatever can spam the most and move around the most while doing it.

And this is no something you can fix with skill and attribute changes. You plug kitten in the dam, another opens. You shift a brick in the wall to cover kitten, there’s a new hole to the other side of the brick after moving it.

This is the kind of issue that needs an extra layer of measures. Like how in a decent fighting game you deal less and less damage in consecutive uninterrupted strikes , or how juggle break to prevent stunlocks, and that sort of thing that. Something that doesn’t kick in normally during gameplay, but will kick in when there’s an extreme case of something that shouldn’t really happen.