Guild Wars 2

Vague Memory.2817:

I’m surprised they nerfed the hell out of ele burning

they barely grazed it, drake breath 2.5s down from 3s and ring of fire doesn’t apply 3 stacks when you walk through it but it applies 2 stacks on use (which it didn’t apply before).

besides d/d eles still have the upper hand against burn guards in duels, or any guard build actually.

with that said, the explosive potential of burn guards could use a little shaving, in the right conditions it’s way stronger than the old shield of wrath + mighty blow combo.

Jackalrat.5493:

glaphen.5230:

Things that stop melee physical damage.
Cripple/Chill
Blind
Weakness
Slow
Confusion
Invulnerability
Dodge
Leaps
CC
Toughness
Things that stop ranged physical damage.
All of the above besides Cripple/Chill unless you are running
Reflect
Line of Sight
Things that stop condition damage.
Lucky dodges or blinds
Condition removal
Resistance
Most condition causing skills aren’t even projectiles but reflect or dodges for the few that are.

This is one of my favorite posts I’ve read on these forums. I’ve always thought when we people go on about how conditions are weak due to condi removal, “But aren’t there tons of ways to avoid direct damage as well?”

Enjoyed seeing them all listed out.

Skills that remove conditions
From self

Weapon skills

Infiltrator’s Return (after Infiltrator’s Strike); 1

Magnetic Wave; 3

Phoenix; 1

Healing skills

Signet of Resolve; 1 every 10 seconds (passive)

Mending; 3

Ether Renewal; 1 per pulse (pulses 8 times over 4 seconds)

Consume Conditions; all

Utility skills
Engineer tango icon 20px.png

Elixir C — Drink Elixir C, converting all conditions into random boons.

Smite Condition — Cure a condition and damage nearby foes. More damage if a condition is cured.

Contemplation of Purity — Convert the conditions you are suffering from into boons.

Signet of Stamina — Passive: Grants faster endurance regeneration.
Active: Cure all conditions.

Signet of Renewal — Signet Passive: Cures a condition every ten seconds.
Signet Active: Your pet pulls all conditions from nearby allies to itself.

Shadow Return — Return to your starting location and cure three conditions.

Cleansing Fire — Cure three conditions and burn foes.

Signet of Water — Passive: Cures a condition every ten seconds.
Active: Chill your foe.

Prayer to Kormir — Beseech Kormir to remove 3 conditions from you.

Profession mechanics

Purge Conditions (Juvenile Brown Bear) — Purge all conditions from yourself.

From allies

Weapon skills

Cleansing Flame — Breathe magical flames that damage foes and cure conditions on allies.

Ray of Judgment — Pass a ray over foes and allies. Foes are damaged and blinded. Allies gain regeneration and cure one condition.

Cleansing Wave — Heal yourself and nearby allies, curing a condition.

Healing Rain — Call down a healing rain on the target area, granting regeneration to allies and curing conditions once every three seconds.

Underwater weapon skills

Purify — Release an orb of cleansing light that cures conditions on allies it passes through. Detonate it to burn foes and cure conditions on allies in the blast radius.

Purifying Blast — Detonate the orb to burn foes and cure conditions on allies in the blast radius.

Healing skills

Cleansing Burst (Healing Turret) — Overcharge your healing turret, supplying a burst of healing that cures two conditions.

Drop Antidote (Med Kit) — Drop a vial of antidote that cures a condition.
Ranger tango icon 20px.png

Healing Spring — Create a spring that heals you, your pet, and your allies. It also cures conditions on allies.

Utility skills

Bow of Truth — Summon an arcane bow to cure conditions on you and your allies.

Purging Flames — Create a ring of fire that burns foes and cures conditions on allies.

“Shake It Off!” — Cure a condition on yourself and nearby allies. Also breaks stuns.

Signet of Agility — Passive: Grants increased precision.
Active: Refill endurance and cure a condition for each nearby ally.

Null Field.png
Null Field — Create a field of energy that rips all boons from foes and cures conditions on allies.

Phantasmal Disenchanter — Summon an illusion that removes boons from foes and cures conditions on allies.

Power Cleanse (Mantra of Resolve) — Remove conditions from you and nearby allies.

Elite skills

Purifying Ribbon (Tome of Courage) — Release a ribbon of light that bounces to nearby enemies and allies, curing conditions on each ally hit and blinding each foe hit.

Nature’s Renewal (Spirit of Nature) — Your spirit of nature sacrifices itself to revive and cure conditions of nearby downed allies.

Grim Specter (Lich Form) — Lose all conditions and send out a claw that explodes at the target area. The claw and explosion rip boons from foes and cure conditions on allies.

Cleansing Leaves (Avatar of Melandru) — Shake, removing conditions from nearby allies.

Profession mechanics

Fumigate (from Elixir Gun) — Spray a cone of elixir fumes, inflicting poison and vulnerability to foes and curing conditions on allies with every strike.

Super Elixir (Elixir Gun) — One condition from allies in area, unlisted effect.

Toss Elixir R (Elixir R) — Toss Elixir R, curing conditions and reviving allies.

Blessing of Kormir (Prayer to Kormir) — Beseech Kormir to remove one condition from your allies at the target location.

Shake It Off (Juvenile Brown Bear) — Cure a condition on yourself and all nearby allies.

Combos
Combo Combo Field: Light × Combo Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Combo Combo Field: Light × Combo Combo Finisher: Whirl

Skills that transfer conditions

Weapon skills

Deathly Swarm; 3 from self to target foe

Putrid Mark; 3 from self to each foe hit upon trigger

Utility skills

“Save Yourselves!”; all from allies to self

Signet of Renewal; all from nearby allies to pet (active)

Arcane Thievery; up to 3 from self to target foe

Epidemic; all copied from target foe to nearby foes

Plague Signet; all from allies to self (passive), all from self to target foe (active)

Profession mechanics

Gathering Plague (from underwater Death Shroud); all from allies to self

Skills that transform boons into conditions

Utility skills

Corrupt Boon; all on target foe

Well of Corruption; multiple per pulse on foes in the area

Skills that transform conditions into boons
Utility skills

Contemplation of Purity; all on self

Elixir C; all on self

Well of Power; multiple per pulse on allies in the area

Profession mechanics

Toss Elixir C (tool belt skill for Elixir C); 1 on allies in the area

Skills that Benefit from Conditions on Foes
Necromancer tango icon 20px.png

Feast of Corruption; Damage per condition: 8%

Skills that grant immunity to conditions

Berserker Stance; Prevents condition application.

Related traits
To see the traits which relate to a specific condition, refer to the page on that condition. The following is a list of traits related to non-specific conditions

Traits that remove conditions
Virtues Absolute Resolution — Activating Virtue of Resolve removes conditions from nearby allies. Virtue of Resolve’s passive effect is stronger.
Valor Smiter’s Boon — Smite conditions when you use a healing ability.
Valor Strength of the Fallen — Lose conditions at a set time interval. Health degenerates more slowly while downed.
Discipline Brawler’s Recovery — Remove conditions when you swap weapons.
Defense Cleansing Ire — Gain adrenaline when hit. Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent when you hit with a burst skill.
Tactics Quick Breathing — Reduces recharge on warhorn skills. Warhorn skills remove conditions from all affected allies.
Tactics Shrug It Off — Use “Shake It Off!” automatically when you have a number of conditions on you.
Wilderness Survival Empathic Bond — Pets periodically take conditions from you.
Wilderness Survival Wilderness Knowledge — Survival skills have reduced recharge, grant fury, and remove conditions.
Shadow Arts Shadow’s Embrace — Remove conditions periodically while in stealth.
Trickery Trickster — Reduces recharge on tricks. Tricks remove conditions.
Fire Burning Fire — Use cleansing fire automatically when you have a number of conditions on you.
Water Cleansing Water — Remove a condition when granting regeneration to yourself or an ally.
Water Cleansing Wave — Remove a condition from you and your allies when attuning to water.
Domination Blurred Inscriptions — Activating a signet grants you distortion and removes conditions. Signet recharge is also reduced.
Inspiration Restorative Illusions — Heal yourself and lose conditions when you use a shatter skill.
Illusions The Pledge — Torch skills remove conditions. Torch skills recharge faster while you are in stealth.
Death Magic Necromantic Corruption — Minions deal more damage and take conditions from you. Whenever a minion attacks, it transfers conditions to its target. (10 second cooldown per minion.)
Death Magic Shrouded Removal — Lose a condition when you enter shroud and every few seconds while you remain in shroud.
Necromancer tango icon 20px.png Spite Spiteful Renewal — Consume conditions to gain health when you strike a foe below the health threshold.
Blood Magic Unholy Martyr — Draw conditions from allies when you enter shroud and every few seconds while you remain in shroud. Gain life force each time a condition is removed.

Traits that benefit from conditions on foes
Firearms Modified Ammunition — Increase damage for each condition on a foe.
Deadly Arts Exposed Weakness — Deal more damage if your target has a condition.
Curses Target the Weak — Increases critical-hit chance for each condition on your foe. Gain condition damage based on your precision.
Death Magic Corrupter’s Fervor — Inflicting a condition on a foe grants stacking toughness and reduced incoming condition damage.
Curses Parasitic Contagion — A percentage of your condition damage heals you.
Curses Terror — Fear deals damage; it deals additional damage if the target is afflicted with another condition.

Traits that transfer conditions
Death Magic Necromantic Corruption — Minions deal more damage and take conditions from you. Whenever a minion attacks, it transfers conditions to its target. (10 second cooldown per minion.)
Curses Plague Sending — When your conditions meet the threshold, your next critical hit will cast Plague Signet on your target.

Traits that transform boons into conditions
Curses Path of Corruption — Shroud skill 2 now additionally converts boons into conditions.
Spite Signets of Suffering — Reduces recharge on signets. Signets grant might when cast and convert boons on affected foes to conditions.

Traits that transform conditions into boons
Honor Pure of Voice — Allies affected by shouts have conditions converted to boons. Shout abilities have their recharge reduced.
Alchemy Transmute — Incoming conditions have a chance to convert into boons.
Alchemy Inversion Enzyme — Elixir gun abilities that remove conditions now convert them into boons instead.

Traits that grant immunity to conditions
Earth Diamond Skin — Conditions cannot be applied to you when your health is above the threshold.

Related equipment

To find equipment related to a specific condition, refer to the page on that condition. Following is a list of equipment that affects non-specific conditions.

Upgrade components that remove conditions

Runes
Superior Rune of the Trooper (rank 6); 1 on allies affected by a shout.
Superior Rune of Lyssa (rank 6); 5 conditions converted into boons on elite skill.

Sigils
Superior Sigil of Purity; 1, chance on hit.
Superior Sigil of Cleansing; Remove 1 condition when you swap to this weapon while in combat.

Upgrade components that transfer conditions to enemies

Sigils
Sigil of Generosity; One condition transferred to one enemy, chance on critical hit.

Edit: I win

Thread game set and match.

glaphen.5230:

Things that stop melee physical damage.
Cripple/Chill
Blind
Weakness
Slow
Confusion
Invulnerability
Dodge
Leaps
CC
Toughness
Things that stop ranged physical damage.
All of the above besides Cripple/Chill unless you are running
Reflect
Line of Sight
Things that stop condition damage.
Lucky dodges or blinds
Condition removal
Resistance
Most condition causing skills aren’t even projectiles but reflect or dodges for the few that are.

you know you can stop the application of condis right?
you can use dodge, block, blind, los, reflect, evade, & kiting against skills that apply the condis.
i always use blocks VS burn guard because it well… blocks their burns so they never get applied.

but anyhow, burn guard is just a medi guard variant- & we all know medi guard hard counters d/p thief so ofc jt gives you hard time. it’s a medi guard.
daredevil has nice condi clear tho, so thats gonna be nice.

I’m gonna change from my shout guard to burn guard and play some unranked later to see if i can provoke some more of these threads.

You could say, i’m gonna start a fire.

BurnGuard is just easy mode for bad players, and every game should have like 1 build/class for halfbrains to play, just cuz not everyone can be as good as u guys are doesnt mean they cant kill you with 1 combo on burnguard (u guys realise short for burnguard is BG…).

And remember they are easy to counter, most of them run Geo+ doom runes so after every combo they swap weapons to give you bleed and posion, and if you know that most of cleanses clean condis from last applied to first one you can pretty much guarantee that if enemy doesnt have clear that cleans 3 condis hes dead.
Remember to use your blind vs enemies that DO have 3 condis clear to make sure they wont ever clean ur burn.
Remember! If your pressured just drop the burnfield and start dancing around it with heal and elite, make sure enemies pass it atleast 1/2x any kind of pressure will stop.

ANd ofc dont worry about rangers or any range class cuz you can pretty much sword2+JI to melee and block with Sword3

I dont even main burnguard, i find it so dumb and easy yet SO EFFECTIVE vs any kind of enemy. Its enemy that need to be constantly aware I dont, its enemy that needs to be all day defensive i dont, its enemy that needs to find a way to not run to me when my cds are up and not get blocked inside firefield.

And yet we still say: Burnguard is not op, cuz there are players that manage to fail on it…

Kuya.6495:

Thread game set and match.

Hardly, I already posted that there’s 88 ways to remove conditions in some way and 68 to cause burning in some way, out of 13 conditions.

choovanski.5462:

glaphen.5230:

Things that stop melee physical damage.
Cripple/Chill
Blind
Weakness
Slow
Confusion
Invulnerability
Dodge
Leaps
CC
Toughness
Things that stop ranged physical damage.
All of the above besides Cripple/Chill unless you are running
Reflect
Line of Sight
Things that stop condition damage.
Lucky dodges or blinds
Condition removal
Resistance
Most condition causing skills aren’t even projectiles but reflect or dodges for the few that are.

you know you can stop the application of condis right?
you can use dodge, block, blind, los, reflect, evade, & kiting against skills that apply the condis.
i always use blocks VS burn guard because it well… blocks their burns so they never get applied.

but anyhow, burn guard is just a medi guard variant- & we all know medi guard hard counters d/p thief so ofc jt gives you hard time. it’s a medi guard.
daredevil has nice condi clear tho, so thats gonna be nice.

If you block you aren’t blocking specific skills, you are just luckily stopping their strongest skills possibly if they are kittened, no animations to watch out for.

Burns are tremendously strong, but I’m surprised you didn’t mention Engineer, a burn Engineer is arguably stronger than a Guardian because they throw on an absolute crap ton of condi’s, giving less chance for the burns to actually be cleansed.

I hope they like generosity sigils

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Burns are tremendously strong, but I’m surprised you didn’t mention Engineer, a burn Engineer is arguably stronger than a Guardian because they throw on an absolute crap ton of condi’s, giving less chance for the burns to actually be cleansed.

Burn engis stack up burn fast but cant rly permaburn like BurnGuard can.

This is best….

“Burn Guard is just easy mode for bad players…”

roflmao

So.. the burning condition is so strong that it cancels the bad player and makes it to an ….tremble…. EASY MODE Player. Here is the question: What makes this bad player to an easy mode player? (hint: i think we already mentioned it)

So think about to what a decent player could develop himself. Easy mode → God mode?

This thread is laughable. Burn guard is a burst build. They burst you with burning stacks which when cleared means they can only reliably add burning if they are traited for burning symbols. You dodge out of purging flames and you don’t stand in symbols. Otherwise the burning stacks are going to be low and come off fairly easily. I had 11 stacks of burning on me last night from a burn guard. I cleared that easily and remained at 90% health.

Also this is a team game, you should have offense and defense which means you get cleanses from water fields and other skills from your support allies. I played burn guard prior and after June patch. The thing that killed people was when people would stand in my symbols receiving burning damage AND straight damage while I dropped purging flames on them. That lead to consistent damage output while I continued to drop them.

That guard is only going to have a few blocks and very little stability. You should be cc’ing them.

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

Thiefz.3695:

This thread is laughable. Burn guard is a burst build. They burst you with burning stacks which when cleared means they can only reliably add burning if they are traited for burning symbols. You dodge out of purging flames and you don’t stand in symbols. Otherwise the burning stacks are going to be low and come off fairly easily. I had 11 stacks of burning on me last night from a burn guard. I cleared that easily and remained at 90% health.

Also this is a team game, you should have offense and defense which means you get cleanses from water fields and other skills from your support allies. I played burn guard prior and after June patch. The thing that killed people was when people would stand in my symbols receiving burning damage AND straight damage while I dropped purging flames on them. That lead to consistent damage output while I continued to drop them.

That guard is only going to have a few blocks and very little stability. You should be cc’ing them.

So 10k damage over 8 seconds from on a Carrion Guardian with a simple cast of Purging Flames that also adds a ton of support value and another 10k every time someone enters it, compared with a Zerker Warriors 10k Hundred Blades that is a 3.5 second immobile channel. Let’s not forget Zealot’s Flame 3.5k just from being around them twice every 10 seconds with two projectiles for 5k each. Every 3 hits you take an extra 1.7k damage and they can activate it for 3.8kxally. Hmm sitting there for 3.5 seconds with no defensive stats doesn’t seem that good compared to the Guardian having more health than the Warrior now and better base survivability skills does more damage with some simple basic fast attacks. Was also pretty funny to test out the 10k health spirit weapons against the class NPCs, died so fast to just sword and hammer basic attacks with the 1.7k per hit burning, if I used the quickness shout they died pretty much as soon as it was over without my help.

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

TheDevice.2751:

They are the best pvp build.

Anyone who says otherwise is just kidding themselves lol.

I mean. Every burn guard i’ve even met knows how cheesy they are. XD

Burn guard is far from the best PvP build. There is a reason why the burn guard only gets a silver medal on metabattle.com and not a gold one.

D/D celementalists, shoutbow warriors, GS/Hammer warriors, bunker guards, DPS medi guards, soldier rifle engineers and cele necros can all easily outplay a burn guardian.

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

The damage output really depends on your weapon choice, your traits, and your sigils, but when I play Burn Guard, I get similar numbers to those above (and before people jump on me, I play all types of Guardian builds, including power, burn, and bunker, in addition to power and condition builds on a number of other professions). Sword/Torch + GS is also what I use to get those balanced numbers, though my output skews more toward burning if I successfully jump into lots of teamfights with the Greatsword.

Not going to bother responding to people crying for Burn nerfs anymore. We’ve reached the point where people are complaining about Spirit Weapons and saying that Guardians have too much HP, so it’s pretty obvious that the discussion is over. I’ve made my points, very few even provoked a response, so I’m done now.

Soryuju.8164:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

The damage output really depends on your weapon choice, your traits, and your sigils, but when I play Burn Guard, I get similar numbers to those above (and before people jump on me, I play all types of Guardian builds, including power, burn, and bunker, in addition to power and condition builds on a number of other professions). Sword/Torch + GS is also what I use to get those balanced numbers, though my output skews more toward burning if I successfully jump into lots of teamfights with the Greatsword.

Not going to bother responding to people crying for Burn nerfs anymore. We’ve reached the point where people are complaining about Spirit Weapons and saying that Guardians have too much HP, so it’s pretty obvious that the discussion is over. I’ve made my points, very few even provoked a response, so I’m done now.

Aww I mentioned spirit weapons as a joke and he takes it as an actual argument that lets him declare victory.

glaphen.5230:

Soryuju.8164:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

The damage output really depends on your weapon choice, your traits, and your sigils, but when I play Burn Guard, I get similar numbers to those above (and before people jump on me, I play all types of Guardian builds, including power, burn, and bunker, in addition to power and condition builds on a number of other professions). Sword/Torch + GS is also what I use to get those balanced numbers, though my output skews more toward burning if I successfully jump into lots of teamfights with the Greatsword.

Not going to bother responding to people crying for Burn nerfs anymore. We’ve reached the point where people are complaining about Spirit Weapons and saying that Guardians have too much HP, so it’s pretty obvious that the discussion is over. I’ve made my points, very few even provoked a response, so I’m done now.

Aww I mentioned spirit weapons as a joke and he takes it as an actual argument that lets him declare victory.

It’s not “victory.” You’ve got what you want to believe, you’re entitled to that opinion, and it’s obvious you’re not going to change your mind no matter what people say. Now that I recognize that, I’m just calling it quits to save both of us some time and frustration.

I don’t know if Anet’s going to nerf Burn or not. If they do, I’ll just play my other Guardian builds instead and do just as well. My interest in defending Burn Guardian is because it’s the first new semi-competitive build Guardian has had since Power Medi and AH Shout bunker since the game launched. Over half of our utilities have been worthless in PvP since launch, and we aren’t sharing in much of the power creep that’s coming with HoT, so our builds are already going to become less viable going forward. Nerfing builds that are only barely considered viable in competitive play isn’t going to do our profession as a whole any favors.

I might as well add, I understand that as a Thief, you’re also in a fairly bad position going into HoT. I think there are going to be much more important things to nerf than burn once HoT lands, however, and I think both of our professions could use some attention if we’re going to keep up in the new metagame.

Soryuju.8164:

glaphen.5230:

Soryuju.8164:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

The damage output really depends on your weapon choice, your traits, and your sigils, but when I play Burn Guard, I get similar numbers to those above (and before people jump on me, I play all types of Guardian builds, including power, burn, and bunker, in addition to power and condition builds on a number of other professions). Sword/Torch + GS is also what I use to get those balanced numbers, though my output skews more toward burning if I successfully jump into lots of teamfights with the Greatsword.

Not going to bother responding to people crying for Burn nerfs anymore. We’ve reached the point where people are complaining about Spirit Weapons and saying that Guardians have too much HP, so it’s pretty obvious that the discussion is over. I’ve made my points, very few even provoked a response, so I’m done now.

Aww I mentioned spirit weapons as a joke and he takes it as an actual argument that lets him declare victory.

It’s not “victory.” You’ve got what you want to believe, you’re entitled to that opinion, and it’s obvious you’re not going to change your mind no matter what people say. Now that I recognize that, I’m just calling it quits to save both of us some time and frustration.

I don’t know if Anet’s going to nerf Burn or not. If they do, I’ll just play my other Guardian builds instead and do just as well. My interest in defending Burn Guardian is because it’s the first new semi-competitive build Guardian has had since Power Medi and AH Shout bunker since the game launched. Over half of our utilities have been worthless in PvP since launch, and we aren’t sharing in much of the power creep that’s coming with HoT, so our builds are already going to become less viable going forward. Nerfing builds that are only barely considered viable in competitive play isn’t going to do our profession as a whole any favors.

They nerfed Hundred Blade Warriors in the past, surely they will nerf this stacking nonsense. Hell they even nerfed my bunker Thief build and no one played it. Burst conditions should not be a thing.

Soryuju.8164:

I might as well add, I understand that as a Thief, you’re also in a fairly bad position going into HoT. I think there are going to be much more important things to nerf than burn once HoT lands, however, and I think both of our professions could use some attention if we’re going to keep up in the new metagame.

Hah if anything DD will make bunker Thief broken with 1 condition removed per dodge and 550 health.

I do agree it is a braindead class, annoying to fight against.

But to anyone always whining about this is, L2P (no offense)

Burn guards are a one trick pony, Plague signet can easily turn around a fight.

How? Stack 10 stacks of burning and flip condis. Thers is no sense in flipping 2 or 3 stacks of burning.

glaphen.5230:

Soryuju.8164:

glaphen.5230:

Soryuju.8164:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

The damage output really depends on your weapon choice, your traits, and your sigils, but when I play Burn Guard, I get similar numbers to those above (and before people jump on me, I play all types of Guardian builds, including power, burn, and bunker, in addition to power and condition builds on a number of other professions). Sword/Torch + GS is also what I use to get those balanced numbers, though my output skews more toward burning if I successfully jump into lots of teamfights with the Greatsword.

Not going to bother responding to people crying for Burn nerfs anymore. We’ve reached the point where people are complaining about Spirit Weapons and saying that Guardians have too much HP, so it’s pretty obvious that the discussion is over. I’ve made my points, very few even provoked a response, so I’m done now.

Aww I mentioned spirit weapons as a joke and he takes it as an actual argument that lets him declare victory.

It’s not “victory.” You’ve got what you want to believe, you’re entitled to that opinion, and it’s obvious you’re not going to change your mind no matter what people say. Now that I recognize that, I’m just calling it quits to save both of us some time and frustration.

I don’t know if Anet’s going to nerf Burn or not. If they do, I’ll just play my other Guardian builds instead and do just as well. My interest in defending Burn Guardian is because it’s the first new semi-competitive build Guardian has had since Power Medi and AH Shout bunker since the game launched. Over half of our utilities have been worthless in PvP since launch, and we aren’t sharing in much of the power creep that’s coming with HoT, so our builds are already going to become less viable going forward. Nerfing builds that are only barely considered viable in competitive play isn’t going to do our profession as a whole any favors.

They nerfed Hundred Blade Warriors in the past, surely they will nerf this stacking nonsense. Hell they even nerfed my bunker Thief build and no one played it. Burst conditions should not be a thing.

I did edit my post above, in case you didn’t see. Trust me, I’m not looking to get Thieves nerfed in their current state.

Soryuju.8164:

glaphen.5230:

Soryuju.8164:

glaphen.5230:

Soryuju.8164:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

The damage output really depends on your weapon choice, your traits, and your sigils, but when I play Burn Guard, I get similar numbers to those above (and before people jump on me, I play all types of Guardian builds, including power, burn, and bunker, in addition to power and condition builds on a number of other professions). Sword/Torch + GS is also what I use to get those balanced numbers, though my output skews more toward burning if I successfully jump into lots of teamfights with the Greatsword.

Not going to bother responding to people crying for Burn nerfs anymore. We’ve reached the point where people are complaining about Spirit Weapons and saying that Guardians have too much HP, so it’s pretty obvious that the discussion is over. I’ve made my points, very few even provoked a response, so I’m done now.

Aww I mentioned spirit weapons as a joke and he takes it as an actual argument that lets him declare victory.

It’s not “victory.” You’ve got what you want to believe, you’re entitled to that opinion, and it’s obvious you’re not going to change your mind no matter what people say. Now that I recognize that, I’m just calling it quits to save both of us some time and frustration.

I don’t know if Anet’s going to nerf Burn or not. If they do, I’ll just play my other Guardian builds instead and do just as well. My interest in defending Burn Guardian is because it’s the first new semi-competitive build Guardian has had since Power Medi and AH Shout bunker since the game launched. Over half of our utilities have been worthless in PvP since launch, and we aren’t sharing in much of the power creep that’s coming with HoT, so our builds are already going to become less viable going forward. Nerfing builds that are only barely considered viable in competitive play isn’t going to do our profession as a whole any favors.

They nerfed Hundred Blade Warriors in the past, surely they will nerf this stacking nonsense. Hell they even nerfed my bunker Thief build and no one played it. Burst conditions should not be a thing.

I did edit my post above, in case you didn’t see. Trust me, I’m not looking to get Thieves nerfed in their current state.

And I edited mine.

Just saw, hopefully Daredevil is in good shape for launch. Anyways, like I said, I’ve made my points. I didn’t used to feel like burst conditions should be a thing either, but power creep in this game hasn’t left room for anything but burst, really. It’s either:

a) Let conditions do burst-level damage.
b) Kill every viable condition build in competitive play.
c) Globally nerf both damage and sustain to make non-burst strategies viable again.

Personally, I’d prefer C, but that’s never going to happen. I think that makes A the lesser of two evils. You think that B is. We’re not going to agree, so let’s leave it at that.

Soryuju.8164:

Just saw, hopefully Daredevil is in good shape for launch. Anyways, like I said, I’ve made my points. I didn’t used to feel like burst conditions should be a thing either, but power creep in this game hasn’t left room for anything but burst, really. It’s either:

a) Let conditions do burst-level damage.
b) Kill every viable condition build in competitive play.
c) Globally nerf both damage and sustain to make non-burst strategies viable again.

Personally, I’d prefer C, but that’s never going to happen. I think that makes A the lesser of two evils. You think that B is. We’re not going to agree, so let’s leave it at that.

If burst conditions were to be a thing they would need to have an obvious animation like Hundred Blades or Killshot or even an Eviscerate. Quick cast of a Purging Flames leaves a field causing 10k damage to anyone in it on cast and anyone who enters even if they leave and re-enter, all while removing conditions and lowering condition duration while inside, making a combo field they can easily abuse for a ton of burning. 7k over 10 seconds every 10 seconds just from being near a Guardian with a torch.

glaphen.5230:

Thiefz.3695:

This thread is laughable. Burn guard is a burst build. They burst you with burning stacks which when cleared means they can only reliably add burning if they are traited for burning symbols. You dodge out of purging flames and you don’t stand in symbols. Otherwise the burning stacks are going to be low and come off fairly easily. I had 11 stacks of burning on me last night from a burn guard. I cleared that easily and remained at 90% health.

Also this is a team game, you should have offense and defense which means you get cleanses from water fields and other skills from your support allies. I played burn guard prior and after June patch. The thing that killed people was when people would stand in my symbols receiving burning damage AND straight damage while I dropped purging flames on them. That lead to consistent damage output while I continued to drop them.

That guard is only going to have a few blocks and very little stability. You should be cc’ing them.

So 10k damage over 8 seconds from on a Carrion Guardian with a simple cast of Purging Flames that also adds a ton of support value and another 10k every time someone enters it, compared with a Zerker Warriors 10k Hundred Blades that is a 3.5 second immobile channel. Let’s not forget Zealot’s Flame 3.5k just from being around them twice every 10 seconds with two projectiles for 5k each. Every 3 hits you take an extra 1.7k damage and they can activate it for 3.8kxally. Hmm sitting there for 3.5 seconds with no defensive stats doesn’t seem that good compared to the Guardian having more health than the Warrior now and better base survivability skills does more damage with some simple basic fast attacks. Was also pretty funny to test out the 10k health spirit weapons against the class NPCs, died so fast to just sword and hammer basic attacks with the 1.7k per hit burning, if I used the quickness shout they died pretty much as soon as it was over without my help.

Purging flames 10k is actually 0 since I can teleport or dodge into/out of the flames so I wouldn’t really use it as a valid example. Secondly, I run an engi with elixirs and high vigor up times. I don’t really get much from the burning. I had 11 stacks on me last night from a burn guard, cleansed it, and continued to hold the point. High damage on a guard is off set by high protection up time which I have using shield and other traits. So when I play with my team, I make sure to cleanse on point to keep burning off.

You keep talking about burning being OP when there are several classes (ele, engi, shoutbow, bunker guard) who can cleanse it for the team. Since there are so many classes that can cleanse for the group, this must be a simple 1v1 issue. So if you are a burst class with low health (btw, health is to conditions what toughness is to power) then you will have to play very well against a burn guard.

Point is this, your team helps you, there are bunker builds for a reason. If you are a burst power spec playing against a burst condi guard, then you better make sure shelter and aegis are on cool down before hitting them but once you do, have fun.

Thiefz.3695:

glaphen.5230:

Thiefz.3695:

This thread is laughable. Burn guard is a burst build. They burst you with burning stacks which when cleared means they can only reliably add burning if they are traited for burning symbols. You dodge out of purging flames and you don’t stand in symbols. Otherwise the burning stacks are going to be low and come off fairly easily. I had 11 stacks of burning on me last night from a burn guard. I cleared that easily and remained at 90% health.

Also this is a team game, you should have offense and defense which means you get cleanses from water fields and other skills from your support allies. I played burn guard prior and after June patch. The thing that killed people was when people would stand in my symbols receiving burning damage AND straight damage while I dropped purging flames on them. That lead to consistent damage output while I continued to drop them.

That guard is only going to have a few blocks and very little stability. You should be cc’ing them.

So 10k damage over 8 seconds from on a Carrion Guardian with a simple cast of Purging Flames that also adds a ton of support value and another 10k every time someone enters it, compared with a Zerker Warriors 10k Hundred Blades that is a 3.5 second immobile channel. Let’s not forget Zealot’s Flame 3.5k just from being around them twice every 10 seconds with two projectiles for 5k each. Every 3 hits you take an extra 1.7k damage and they can activate it for 3.8kxally. Hmm sitting there for 3.5 seconds with no defensive stats doesn’t seem that good compared to the Guardian having more health than the Warrior now and better base survivability skills does more damage with some simple basic fast attacks. Was also pretty funny to test out the 10k health spirit weapons against the class NPCs, died so fast to just sword and hammer basic attacks with the 1.7k per hit burning, if I used the quickness shout they died pretty much as soon as it was over without my help.

Purging flames 10k is actually 0 since I can teleport or dodge into/out of the flames so I wouldn’t really use it as a valid example. Secondly, I run an engi with elixirs and high vigor up times. I don’t really get much from the burning. I had 11 stacks on me last night from a burn guard, cleansed it, and continued to hold the point. High damage on a guard is off set by high protection up time which I have using shield and other traits. So when I play with my team, I make sure to cleanse on point to keep burning off.

You keep talking about burning being OP when there are several classes (ele, engi, shoutbow, bunker guard) who can cleanse it for the team. Since there are so many classes that can cleanse for the group, this must be a simple 1v1 issue. So if you are a burst class with low health (btw, health is to conditions what toughness is to power) then you will have to play very well against a burn guard.

Point is this, your team helps you, there are bunker builds for a reason. If you are a burst power spec playing against a burst condi guard, then you better make sure shelter and aegis are on cool down before hitting them but once you do, have fun.

Waste dodge rolling into circle now dodge the 6.5kx2 projectiles too every 10 seconds and the rest of the multi hit attacks while you tick 1k per second guaranteed every 10 seconds. LOL Health is to conditions what toughness is to power, no not in the slightest, power and conditions are affected the exact same way by vitality pointless burst protection that doesn’t help sustain in the fight except when downed, once the health is gone, it’s gone, toughness reduces damage so healing is more effective. The Guardian is obviously kittened and doesn’t know how to dodge the easier to dodge physical skills than the power build dodging all those basic animations.

I can see no one is going to change your opinion, and that’s fine. However I will say this. I have had over 220k of healing and over 50 conditions cleansed on my engi in matches. When traited, I have 6 different ways to cleanse conditions and give regen which off set the damage from conditions. Permanent vigor up time insures that I have dodges. So I really could care less about the torch. Bunker shout guard has similar ways to turn conditions into boons. Elementalist have diamond skin and other ways to cure conditions.

This also assume no counter play with CC/stun so we could continue to argue but condition guardian isn’t an issue if you build to counter it.

Thiefz.3695:

I can see no one is going to change your opinion, and that’s fine. However I will say this. I have had over 220k of healing and over 50 conditions cleansed on my engi in matches. When traited, I have 6 different ways to cleanse conditions and give regen which off set the damage from conditions. Permanent vigor up time insures that I have dodges. So I really could care less about the torch. Bunker shout guard has similar ways to turn conditions into boons. Elementalist have diamond skin and other ways to cure conditions.

This also assume no counter play with CC/stun so we could continue to argue but condition guardian isn’t an issue if you build to counter it.

Woah only 50 removed? I got perma enhanced vigor, more condition removal, more healing, more dodges, 60% uptime of regen and I say it’s broken, 3 physical, 2 condition game by the way.

glaphen.5230:

Vapour.7348:

But if that burn guard played a dps guard and you are out of dodges or blocks, it’s the same thing…you have damage coming your way and you have little defense for it.

People just have a prejudice against bursty condis.

Things that stop melee physical damage.
Cripple/Chill
Blind
Weakness
Slow
Confusion
Invulnerability
Dodge
Leaps
CC
Toughness
Things that stop ranged physical damage.
All of the above besides Cripple/Chill unless you are running
Reflect
Line of Sight
Things that stop condition damage.
Lucky dodges or blinds
Condition removal
Resistance
Most condition causing skills aren’t even projectiles but reflect or dodges for the few that are.

You realize everything on that list apart from weakness and swapping toughness for vitality stops condition damage right..

I primarily play Mesmer (both condi and burst). I’m squishy (less so with the condi build) and I only run two condi clears (torch skills). One of those has a long cast time. I still don’t find burn guards all that hard to deal with and I am arguably a great deal more susceptible to their damage than others.

I would rather my enemy have a burn guard over a bunker guard any day.

Zetsumei.4975:

glaphen.5230:

Vapour.7348:

But if that burn guard played a dps guard and you are out of dodges or blocks, it’s the same thing…you have damage coming your way and you have little defense for it.

People just have a prejudice against bursty condis.

Things that stop melee physical damage.
Cripple/Chill
Blind
Weakness
Slow
Confusion
Invulnerability
Dodge
Leaps
CC
Toughness
Things that stop ranged physical damage.
All of the above besides Cripple/Chill unless you are running
Reflect
Line of Sight
Things that stop condition damage.
Lucky dodges or blinds
Condition removal
Resistance
Most condition causing skills aren’t even projectiles but reflect or dodges for the few that are.

You realize everything on that list apart from weakness and swapping toughness for vitality stops condition damage right..

Nope because big condition causing skills don’t have obvious animations so you have to luck dodge/blind them. Again vitality doesn’t do kitten to mitigate conditions, it’s just extra burst health protection once a fight that does the exact same for physical, toughness reduces damage done, increasing healing effectiveness. Also I forgot to add Protection to that list at that.

glaphen.5230:

Zetsumei.4975:

glaphen.5230:

Vapour.7348:

But if that burn guard played a dps guard and you are out of dodges or blocks, it’s the same thing…you have damage coming your way and you have little defense for it.

People just have a prejudice against bursty condis.

Things that stop melee physical damage.
Cripple/Chill
Blind
Weakness
Slow
Confusion
Invulnerability
Dodge
Leaps
CC
Toughness
Things that stop ranged physical damage.
All of the above besides Cripple/Chill unless you are running
Reflect
Line of Sight
Things that stop condition damage.
Lucky dodges or blinds
Condition removal
Resistance
Most condition causing skills aren’t even projectiles but reflect or dodges for the few that are.

You realize everything on that list apart from weakness and swapping toughness for vitality stops condition damage right..

Nope because big condition causing skills don’t have obvious animations so you have to luck dodge/blind them. Again vitality doesn’t do kitten to mitigate conditions, it’s just extra burst health protection once a fight that does the exact same for physical, toughness reduces damage done, increasing healing effectiveness. Also I forgot to add Protection to that list at that.

Grasping dead and enfeebling blood don’t have obvious animations? Are you sure? Just because you don’t see big numbers when hit by condition skills doesn’t mean you shouldnt learn to dodge them, too many people behave this way. Play those classes with condi weapon sets and learn the animations, same as any other build.

Fair point on healing effectiveness with toughness vs vitality but condition removal is the mirror of protection, except it trades passive play for the potential to cut off more or less of the potential damage (about 33%) from conditions placed on you depending on your judgement and reflexes.

Yeah please all reroll to burning guard, then i’ll have much fun with my necro I guess.

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

Here is just a normal game; I didn’t play well at all here to be honest, but it gives you a sense for the type of damage a burn guard does. As you can see, my power damage exceeds my burn damage by a small amount.

Nice direct damage numbers

Zetsumei.4975:

glaphen.5230:

Zetsumei.4975:

glaphen.5230:

Vapour.7348:

But if that burn guard played a dps guard and you are out of dodges or blocks, it’s the same thing…you have damage coming your way and you have little defense for it.

People just have a prejudice against bursty condis.

Things that stop melee physical damage.
Cripple/Chill
Blind
Weakness
Slow
Confusion
Invulnerability
Dodge
Leaps
CC
Toughness
Things that stop ranged physical damage.
All of the above besides Cripple/Chill unless you are running
Reflect
Line of Sight
Things that stop condition damage.
Lucky dodges or blinds
Condition removal
Resistance
Most condition causing skills aren’t even projectiles but reflect or dodges for the few that are.

You realize everything on that list apart from weakness and swapping toughness for vitality stops condition damage right..

Nope because big condition causing skills don’t have obvious animations so you have to luck dodge/blind them. Again vitality doesn’t do kitten to mitigate conditions, it’s just extra burst health protection once a fight that does the exact same for physical, toughness reduces damage done, increasing healing effectiveness. Also I forgot to add Protection to that list at that.

Grasping dead and enfeebling blood don’t have obvious animations? Are you sure? Just because you don’t see big numbers when hit by condition skills doesn’t mean you shouldnt learn to dodge them, too many people behave this way. Play those classes with condi weapon sets and learn the animations, same as any other build.

Fair point on healing effectiveness with toughness vs vitality but condition removal is the mirror of protection, except it trades passive play for the potential to cut off more or less of the potential damage (about 33%) from conditions placed on you depending on your judgement and reflexes.

I don’t even count either of those as big condition skills, I mean Grasping Dead is pretty much the same as a weapon swap but with a 5 second cripple, basic attack chain is more deadly. Now compare to staff and tell me the difference between the marks, oh the tiny circle art after it’s placed if it isn’t on top of of someone.

My friend playes both direct and condition guardian.
At first when he tryed the burn damage he was like “omg that burn deal a insane damage!” and played it a lot.
But doing ranked tournaments he was more and more realizing that sometimes hes condition damage kill himself or his allies why tranfered and that it’s not effective like everyone think.

Now after 1-2 months he tried back the direct damage and his reaction was something like “omg it’s so much etter than burn! Look how I kill them quickly!”.

Burn can be good for a “burst” but is easy to dodge/block/evade/blind and really easy to clean, convert or send back. And if a necro send back to one of your allies that isn’t ready your 12-15 stacks of burn, he will die quickly by the damage you grant to your enemy necro, mesmer or everyone with a generosity sigil.

A direct damage Guardian si much more efficent to burst down a enemy why it’s high damage that can not be easy blocked/transfered and can fight so much better why have cooldowns so much short than with a burn build.

Seriously: a Direct damage Guardian is much stronger than a Burn Guardian, expecially in team fights.

Silv.9207:

My friend playes both direct and condition guardian.
At first when he tryed the burn damage he was like “omg that burn deal a insane damage!” and played it a lot.
But doing ranked tournaments he was more and more realizing that sometimes hes condition damage kill himself or his allies why tranfered and that it’s not effective like everyone think.

Now after 1-2 months he tried back the direct damage and his reaction was something like “omg it’s so much etter than burn! Look how I kill them quickly!”.

Burn can be good for a “burst” but is easy to dodge/block/evade/blind and really easy to clean, convert or send back. And if a necro send back to one of your allies that isn’t ready your 12-15 stacks of burn, he will die quickly by the damage you grant to your enemy necro, mesmer or everyone with a generosity sigil.

A direct damage Guardian si much more efficent to burst down a enemy why it’s high damage that can not be easy blocked/transfered and can fight so much better why have cooldowns so much short than with a burn build.

Seriously: a Direct damage Guardian is much stronger than a Burn Guardian, expecially in team fights.

Physical can be good for a “burst” but is easy to dodge/block/evade/blind, fixed that for you. If the only reason they are balanced is because of the existence of a few counter builds, it can’t be called balanced. Esports is and always will be dead in GW2, mainly a bunch of randoms vs randoms or premade vs randoms, you have a low chance of anyone playing a boring bunker shout build or transfer Necromancer outside of the tiny amount of premade vs premade that only takes them out of fear of the broken condition damage. You don’t see people playing reflect Mesmer out of fear of the Killshot Warriors.

glaphen.5230:

I don’t even count either of those as big condition skills, I mean Grasping Dead is pretty much the same as a weapon swap but with a 5 second cripple, basic attack chain is more deadly. Now compare to staff and tell me the difference between the marks, oh the tiny circle art after it’s placed if it isn’t on top of of someone.

You do realize that Necro Staff does pathetic damage, both in Power and Condition builds, right? In a condition build, the only one that does any decent damage is Mark of Blood for…2k damage on a 4.75 second cooldown. I don’t care how you slice it, that’s pathetic.

No, on Necro, Grasping Dead and Enfeebling Blood are definitely heavy-hitting skills. Now, though, you add on Feast of Corruption as a heavy hitter, dealing up to 4.6k on a 10 second cooldown.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

I don’t even count either of those as big condition skills, I mean Grasping Dead is pretty much the same as a weapon swap but with a 5 second cripple, basic attack chain is more deadly. Now compare to staff and tell me the difference between the marks, oh the tiny circle art after it’s placed if it isn’t on top of of someone.

You do realize that Necro Staff does pathetic damage, both in Power and Condition builds, right? In a condition build, the only one that does any decent damage is Mark of Blood for…2k damage on a 4.75 second cooldown. I don’t care how you slice it, that’s pathetic.

No, on Necro, Grasping Dead and Enfeebling Blood are definitely heavy-hitting skills. Now, though, you add on Feast of Corruption as a heavy hitter, dealing up to 4.6k on a 10 second cooldown.

So are you supporting my conditions are OP argument or what, Feast of Corruption is literally the same animation as the basic scepter attack without the splotch at the back that appears when it’s already too late to tell the difference. Enfeebling Blood is a strong skill and yet you can do it every 10 seconds without an animation when you go Death Shroud, which is the obvious to take trait over the scepter one.

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

I don’t even count either of those as big condition skills, I mean Grasping Dead is pretty much the same as a weapon swap but with a 5 second cripple, basic attack chain is more deadly. Now compare to staff and tell me the difference between the marks, oh the tiny circle art after it’s placed if it isn’t on top of of someone.

You do realize that Necro Staff does pathetic damage, both in Power and Condition builds, right? In a condition build, the only one that does any decent damage is Mark of Blood for…2k damage on a 4.75 second cooldown. I don’t care how you slice it, that’s pathetic.

No, on Necro, Grasping Dead and Enfeebling Blood are definitely heavy-hitting skills. Now, though, you add on Feast of Corruption as a heavy hitter, dealing up to 4.6k on a 10 second cooldown.

So are you supporting my conditions are OP argument or what, Feast of Corruption is literally the same animation as the basic scepter attack without the splotch at the back that appears when it’s already too late to tell the difference. Enfeebling Blood is a strong skill and yet you can do it every 10 seconds without an animation when you go Death Shroud, which is the obvious to take trait over the scepter one.

There are still particular skills to avoid, and they’re easy to do so with. Weakening Shroud, like Enfeebling Blood, has a delay before it hits. If you’re in melee with a Necro, you should figure out pretty quick if he has the trait, in which case you dodge/block/blind when you see him enter shroud. Or just don’t melee him and you’re fine.

I will admit that some Necro animations are harder reads than others, but Feast of Corruption is still distinct all the way through the cast. The scepter has black-green energy surrounding the head during FoC, but not the autos.

This is true with every condition build: there are a few heavy hitters to look out for. Learn them and use the same active defenses against them that you do Power builds and you may actually not even need a cleanse to beat them (I don’t advocate running without a cleanse, though; Immobilize kills).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

I don’t even count either of those as big condition skills, I mean Grasping Dead is pretty much the same as a weapon swap but with a 5 second cripple, basic attack chain is more deadly. Now compare to staff and tell me the difference between the marks, oh the tiny circle art after it’s placed if it isn’t on top of of someone.

You do realize that Necro Staff does pathetic damage, both in Power and Condition builds, right? In a condition build, the only one that does any decent damage is Mark of Blood for…2k damage on a 4.75 second cooldown. I don’t care how you slice it, that’s pathetic.

No, on Necro, Grasping Dead and Enfeebling Blood are definitely heavy-hitting skills. Now, though, you add on Feast of Corruption as a heavy hitter, dealing up to 4.6k on a 10 second cooldown.

So are you supporting my conditions are OP argument or what, Feast of Corruption is literally the same animation as the basic scepter attack without the splotch at the back that appears when it’s already too late to tell the difference. Enfeebling Blood is a strong skill and yet you can do it every 10 seconds without an animation when you go Death Shroud, which is the obvious to take trait over the scepter one.

There are still particular skills to avoid, and they’re easy to do so with. Weakening Shroud, like Enfeebling Blood, has a delay before it hits. If you’re in melee with a Necro, you should figure out pretty quick if he has the trait, in which case you dodge/block/blind when you see him enter shroud. Or just don’t melee him and you’re fine.

I will admit that some Necro animations are harder reads than others, but Feast of Corruption is still distinct all the way through the cast. The scepter has black-green energy surrounding the head during FoC, but not the autos.

This is true with every condition build: there are a few heavy hitters to look out for. Learn them and use the same active defenses against them that you do Power builds and you may actually not even need a cleanse to beat them (I don’t advocate running without a cleanse, though; Immobilize kills).

On my Charr Necro I only see it while it’s behind it’s head, there is a green aura for a brief moment around the body but you can probably hide that on an Asura with green dye. Also they can just use Doom on you at the very start of it once every other cast if they really want to hit it, and that is one precious dodge that you only regen once per 10 seconds, 15 with the perma weakness of a Necromancer.

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

cakeonroof.7385:

Salamander.2504:

Well, if you did try playing a burn guard, you’d know that burning accounts for only 50% of their dps…Do you want to QQ about their damage coefficients too?

really????

What burn guard build does physical dmg as much as burns? Are they running celestial? are the numbers kinda low like below 50,000 dmg for each condi and direct?
smh

Yes, really. Any burn guard that uses a carrion amulet and a few Meditations will be doing a ton of power damage. When I run a carrion burn guard (GS, Sw/T), I typically clock in at ~200-300k power damage and ~200-300k burn damage. In most cases (~90-95%), the power damage exceeds or equals the burn damage.

Will post screenshots when I’m home later tonight!

That’s really good. Please do post your results. For me, physical damage is only around 1/3 of burn damage total. Ex if burns 150,000 direct is around 50,000 sometimes less.

Here is just a normal game; I didn’t play well at all here to be honest, but it gives you a sense for the type of damage a burn guard does. As you can see, my power damage exceeds my burn damage by a small amount.

Sal OP, pls nerf Sal.

I don’t think I’ve seen physical damage do more than condition on burn builds. Looks like you make full use of the Carrion ammy and play this build better than most.

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

I don’t even count either of those as big condition skills, I mean Grasping Dead is pretty much the same as a weapon swap but with a 5 second cripple, basic attack chain is more deadly. Now compare to staff and tell me the difference between the marks, oh the tiny circle art after it’s placed if it isn’t on top of of someone.

You do realize that Necro Staff does pathetic damage, both in Power and Condition builds, right? In a condition build, the only one that does any decent damage is Mark of Blood for…2k damage on a 4.75 second cooldown. I don’t care how you slice it, that’s pathetic.

No, on Necro, Grasping Dead and Enfeebling Blood are definitely heavy-hitting skills. Now, though, you add on Feast of Corruption as a heavy hitter, dealing up to 4.6k on a 10 second cooldown.

So are you supporting my conditions are OP argument or what, Feast of Corruption is literally the same animation as the basic scepter attack without the splotch at the back that appears when it’s already too late to tell the difference. Enfeebling Blood is a strong skill and yet you can do it every 10 seconds without an animation when you go Death Shroud, which is the obvious to take trait over the scepter one.

There are still particular skills to avoid, and they’re easy to do so with. Weakening Shroud, like Enfeebling Blood, has a delay before it hits. If you’re in melee with a Necro, you should figure out pretty quick if he has the trait, in which case you dodge/block/blind when you see him enter shroud. Or just don’t melee him and you’re fine.

I will admit that some Necro animations are harder reads than others, but Feast of Corruption is still distinct all the way through the cast. The scepter has black-green energy surrounding the head during FoC, but not the autos.

This is true with every condition build: there are a few heavy hitters to look out for. Learn them and use the same active defenses against them that you do Power builds and you may actually not even need a cleanse to beat them (I don’t advocate running without a cleanse, though; Immobilize kills).

On my Charr Necro I only see it while it’s behind it’s head, there is a green aura for a brief moment around the body but you can probably hide that on an Asura with green dye. Also they can just use Doom on you at the very start of it once every other cast if they really want to hit it, and that is one precious dodge that you only regen once per 10 seconds, 15 with the perma weakness of a Necromancer.

So you don’t have blocks or blinds? They also just blew their only defense to land a 4.5k hit (assuming no cleanse). Punish them for it.

And blaming Asura for skill unbalance is stupid. Everyone knows that the race is unbalanced in PvP scenarios because the animations are much harder to read.

Considering how hard it is to hit with every burn to get high burn stacks, it is definitely not a cheese build. Best I can do in pvp (and this is on someone rezzing or immobile) is about a 5k burn per tick. If anything burn guards are OP in pve. I can get over 12k damage per tick in dungeons.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

I don’t even count either of those as big condition skills, I mean Grasping Dead is pretty much the same as a weapon swap but with a 5 second cripple, basic attack chain is more deadly. Now compare to staff and tell me the difference between the marks, oh the tiny circle art after it’s placed if it isn’t on top of of someone.

You do realize that Necro Staff does pathetic damage, both in Power and Condition builds, right? In a condition build, the only one that does any decent damage is Mark of Blood for…2k damage on a 4.75 second cooldown. I don’t care how you slice it, that’s pathetic.

No, on Necro, Grasping Dead and Enfeebling Blood are definitely heavy-hitting skills. Now, though, you add on Feast of Corruption as a heavy hitter, dealing up to 4.6k on a 10 second cooldown.

So are you supporting my conditions are OP argument or what, Feast of Corruption is literally the same animation as the basic scepter attack without the splotch at the back that appears when it’s already too late to tell the difference. Enfeebling Blood is a strong skill and yet you can do it every 10 seconds without an animation when you go Death Shroud, which is the obvious to take trait over the scepter one.

There are still particular skills to avoid, and they’re easy to do so with. Weakening Shroud, like Enfeebling Blood, has a delay before it hits. If you’re in melee with a Necro, you should figure out pretty quick if he has the trait, in which case you dodge/block/blind when you see him enter shroud. Or just don’t melee him and you’re fine.

I will admit that some Necro animations are harder reads than others, but Feast of Corruption is still distinct all the way through the cast. The scepter has black-green energy surrounding the head during FoC, but not the autos.

This is true with every condition build: there are a few heavy hitters to look out for. Learn them and use the same active defenses against them that you do Power builds and you may actually not even need a cleanse to beat them (I don’t advocate running without a cleanse, though; Immobilize kills).

On my Charr Necro I only see it while it’s behind it’s head, there is a green aura for a brief moment around the body but you can probably hide that on an Asura with green dye. Also they can just use Doom on you at the very start of it once every other cast if they really want to hit it, and that is one precious dodge that you only regen once per 10 seconds, 15 with the perma weakness of a Necromancer.

So you don’t have blocks or blinds? They also just blew their only defense to land a 4.5k hit (assuming no cleanse). Punish them for it.

And blaming Asura for skill unbalance is stupid. Everyone knows that the race is unbalanced in PvP scenarios because the animations are much harder to read.

I can read any physical animation on an Asura, can’t do the same for conditions because it’s still hard as hell even if they are a Charr for the few skills that actually have an animation difference, S/D Necro, dodge the two skills with small green balls made in front of them even though their more dangerous skills have no animation difference, Burn Guardian dodge their slight hand raise Purging Flames, dodge throw motion torch throw, still die to the instant applicationx20, Engineer dodge poison volley because that’s the only actual animation on the class or instant Static Shot if they are far away, grenades are all exactly the same at point blank and so are bombs till they actually go off. Ranger stay out of the big circles that cover the entire point but if you do that they decap, dodge torch and dagger throw and don’t attack him while he has Fire Aura for half the battle, Mesmer dodge channeled Confusing Images with 2 dodges and dodge if you see him block an attack, dodge into clones every time they start moving towards you.

Except zealot’s fire(which is tricky) there isn’t much to dodge on a burn guard.

And no, chains of light aren’t dodgeable unless you expect it.

I’m gonna say it again. It’s not an overpowered build but it’s frustrating to deal with.