Guild Wars 2

Hi everyone, I wanted to talk a little today about the toxicity in the community, more specifically, at the top end of competitive play, and how it effects us individually, and how it effects the community as a whole.

Early in the games launch, there was a lot of respect for good players, teams, innovation, and a fair amount of respect for basically anyone, because everyone was learning, growing, and meeting new people. As the game aged, and players left, some bad development decisions, and unsatisfactory balance, many players slowly became toxic. I myself, am guilty of this, and have my own fair share of skeletons when it comes to being a kitten or BMing other players.

As high tier players, we should hold ourselves to higher standards, everyone who is at the upper level of competitive play and competes in tournys, all deserves to be there, they’ve worked hard, they’re displayed they have what it takes to compete and put on a good showing, and I feel that everyone deserves at least a basic level of respect, even if their not #1 ____ NA.

Too often, I hear people say the phrase _ is trash ____ is a garbage player _ is terrible. It’s constant, you can’t go a day of playing without hearing it 10 to 20 times. This is a core root of where the toxic community perpetuates itself. According to everyone, everyone is terrible, and people even talk kitten to players on their own teams, its gotten to the point of where players don’t even respect their own team-mates.

And this is why the NA community doesn’t have teams, it just has “Super Pugs” Because everyone is always putting each-other down, talking badly about each-other, and disrespecting each-other during, or at the end of matches. No one want’s to play with a “baddie” but according to everyone, everyone’s a baddie.

The other night, our team was scrimming Uncivilized Roughboyz. And it was a hell of a lot of fun. Both teams were respectful, played hard, and learned from each-other, and at the end, there was no BM, no trash talking. Just good respectful competition, and it reminded me that this is how competition and good play is supposed to feel. It was actually awesome, we had so much fun, and learned a lot from doing it, I just wish team queue felt this way.

Players, teams, and even viewers, start talking trash about players, and teams when all we do is perpetuate the bullkitten, and its not good for anyone. We need to take our focus less off “winning immediately” and focus on finding players we enjoy playing with, and then building each-other up together to form a strong team.

Yes, it sucks to lose, yes, you may have a better skillset than a player, and lose to them, it’s called getting outplayed, get over it, and grow up, if you want to win, then earn it, and don’t be a kitten about it. Spreading the toxicity because your upset you lost, or because someone didn’t do what you wanted them to, isn’t going to do anything for us in the long, or short run of things.

As I said before, I’m guilty of my fair share of BM and calling players trash, etc. But that’s not fair, it’s not true, and starting today; I’m changing, I talked with my team and we are as a whole, going to change the way we interact with other players, teams, each-other and the community as a whole.

I really do have respect for everyone that competes, and everyone else should too, we all love playing guild wars 2 and that’s why we’re here. But the toxicity has to go, it’s been here for way too long, and no one wants to step up and own it, and help end it.

It’s easy as kitten to throw an insult, it’s hard to be a man and tell that motherkittener he did good, give that kitten a compliment, kittenes love compliments. And who knows, they might just give you one back.

<3’s I love you all frands, Let us engage in the glorious passionate conflict of erotic sensuality.

-Steb #1 Downstate NA

What a nice post right here!

Hope people really understand what’s being said in this post, and what it means.

I think it’s a generational thing to be honest. I’ve noticed that the older (30+) gamers are usually respectful, competitive people but it’s the kiddies and the upcoming gamer generation that are the trash talkers, noob callers etc. I see it in nearly every game I play and it’s sad.

I’m not qualifying EVERYONE that is young as a trash talker, I’m just saying the problem seems to follow age lines and which generation of gamer people fall in.

OP I wish you luck bro.

TL;DR : Basement nerds are toxic.

I got it.

Kryshade.6075:

I think it’s a generational thing to be honest. I’ve noticed that the older (30+) gamers are usually respectful, competitive people but it’s the kiddies and the upcoming gamer generation that are the trash talkers, noob callers etc. I see it in nearly every game I play and it’s sad.

I’m not qualifying EVERYONE that is young as a trash talker, I’m just saying the problem seems to follow age lines and which generation of gamer people fall in.

I wish it were that simple, but it’s not. It’s stems from the community itself, I’ve played MMO’s for over a decade and a half, and there’s virtually no limitations or rhyme or reason to it. If the community is toxic, it does not discriminate, age, gender, race, etc. Toxicity breeds toxicity, and unhappy players (for whatever reason, lack of features etc) cause the toxicity in the first place.

Ever play eve? You’ll see toxic players all over the place, and the community is made up generally of the older generation of gamers. It’s easy to point the finger, but hard to accept responsibility, and that’s where it all begins.

Ego’s are not restricted or tempered with age.

GOSU.9574:

TL;DR : Basement nerds are toxic.

I got it.

That statement was toxic.

what’s wrong with trash talking? proffesionals trash talk in both esports and real life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R0igsOTCT9A

can’t handle a few words? trashtalking is an art, if anything, when you are being trashtalked it means the offender thinks highly of you.

I’ve kinda learned after playing in this game for so long that people just don’t give a kitten about what they say in this community because….it is an online game. If you want to stop the BM you have to consider the causes:

1) To make yourself feel better by putting someone else down (this is Freud’s displacement). This is very common in solo que, as blaming another person for throwing a match justifies your own play, and retains your self-esteem.

2) To offer “constructive criticism” in light of a moral belief to strengthen one’s team. This happens very often in a team, and when the criticism turns into insults and BM, it becomes not really constructive but instead destructive.

3) To prove that people are bad when they think that they are good. This is extremely common and probably the most prevalent and important reason at “top-tier” level play. It annoys good players to see “bad” players claim that they are good (or be told that a certain “bad” player is good"), as people innately believe in a “just world” (refer to psychology). Basically, people have this moral illusion that they have a duty to separate the good from the bad by BMing the kitten out of that “bad” person to prove true skill levels and reduce the fog. This, however, is of course not moral as you are just putting down someone just because of your own beliefs, entertainment, and self esteem in the grandiose height of your own skill level. You can’t assume people who are bad actually truly believe that they are good.

4) To get entertainment. People have fun by seeing other people in distress apparently.

5) Entropy. LOL

Twitch had a drinking game in honor of steb during the qualifier

Expand on this, this is now a need to know conversation.

Standing by.

+1 OP’s post

/15char

Aeroxe is on point, though I believe the last line of 3) is a little off. Even if they are bad (and everyone knows it) and claim they are good, there is still no reason to abuse them.

Steb.2571:

As high tier players, we should hold ourselves to higher standards,
everyone who is at the upper level of competitive play and competes in tournys,
all deserves to be there
, they’ve worked hard,

-Steb #1 Downstate NA

/facepalm “we”

Aeroxe.8140:

I’ve kinda learned after playing in this game for so long that people just don’t give a kitten about what they say in this community because….it is an online game. If you want to stop the BM you have to consider the causes:

1) To make yourself feel better by putting someone else down (this is Freud’s displacement). This is very common in solo que, as blaming another person for throwing a match justifies your own play, and retains your self-esteem.

2) To offer “constructive criticism” in light of a moral belief to strengthen one’s team. This happens very often in a team, and when the criticism turns into insults and BM, it becomes not really constructive but instead destructive.

3) To prove that people are bad when they think that they are good. This is extremely common and probably the most prevalent and important reason at “top-tier” level play. It annoys good players to see “bad” players claim that they are good (or be told that a certain “bad” player is good"), as people innately believe in a “just world” (refer to psychology). Basically, people have this moral illusion that they have a duty to separate the good from the bad by BMing the kitten out of that “bad” person to prove true skill levels and reduce the fog. This, however, is of course not moral as you are just putting down someone just because of your own beliefs, entertainment, and self esteem in the grandiose height of your own skill level. You can’t assume people who are bad actually truly believe that they are good.

4) To get entertainment. People have fun by seeing other people in distress apparently.

5) Entropy. LOL

Extremely well said. For a kitten.

Aaron.2413:

Aeroxe.8140:

I’ve kinda learned after playing in this game for so long that people just don’t give a kitten about what they say in this community because….it is an online game. If you want to stop the BM you have to consider the causes:

1) To make yourself feel better by putting someone else down (this is Freud’s displacement). This is very common in solo que, as blaming another person for throwing a match justifies your own play, and retains your self-esteem.

2) To offer “constructive criticism” in light of a moral belief to strengthen one’s team. This happens very often in a team, and when the criticism turns into insults and BM, it becomes not really constructive but instead destructive.

3) To prove that people are bad when they think that they are good. This is extremely common and probably the most prevalent and important reason at “top-tier” level play. It annoys good players to see “bad” players claim that they are good (or be told that a certain “bad” player is good"), as people innately believe in a “just world” (refer to psychology). Basically, people have this moral illusion that they have a duty to separate the good from the bad by BMing the kitten out of that “bad” person to prove true skill levels and reduce the fog. This, however, is of course not moral as you are just putting down someone just because of your own beliefs, entertainment, and self esteem in the grandiose height of your own skill level. You can’t assume people who are bad actually truly believe that they are good.

4) To get entertainment. People have fun by seeing other people in distress apparently.

5) Entropy. LOL

Extremely well said. For a kitten.

Ouch my feelings. Or at least I think the censored word is what it is.

I honestly think its just that videogames are played mostly by teenagers, who don’t know how to separate “fun” trash talk with straight up BM and insults. Not saying that all of them are like that though. Obviously the anonymity of the internet, frustration from lack of updates / Dev support, and sense of entitlement from thinking that being good at a videogame with a competitive playerbase as small as my neighborhood actually means something (it doesn’t) aaand we slowly get a toxic community

Thanks for this much needed post!!

I’m sure reacting to people getting trashed talked can go a long way.

Steb.2571:

<3’s I love you all frands, Let us engage in the glorious passionate conflict of erotic sensuality.

I completely agree with you Steb! I honestly have to say that I usually give credits to those who deserve it and I can’t remember the last time I flamed someone.

I do however enjoy it when people try to flame me. It mean that they waste time writing in the chat, while I do my best to contribute to the match.

The worst are when teammates start to flame.... That means that they don’t contribute and are just a liability...

sorrychief.2563:

what’s wrong with trash talking? proffesionals trash talk in both esports and real life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=R0igsOTCT9A

can’t handle a few words? trashtalking is an art, if anything, when you are being trashtalked it means the offender thinks highly of you.

Trash talking others to make yourself feel better. Nothing more professional than that, right?

Kryshade.6075:

I think it’s a generational thing to be honest. I’ve noticed that the older (30+) gamers are usually respectful, competitive people but it’s the kiddies and the upcoming gamer generation that are the trash talkers, noob callers etc. I see it in nearly every game I play and it’s sad.

I’m not qualifying EVERYONE that is young as a trash talker, I’m just saying the problem seems to follow age lines and which generation of gamer people fall in.

It has nothing to do with generation, just maturity, which is loosely related to age.

Well said, Steb. This is a message that any community, be it online or ‘irl’, can benefit from.

Would have loved to have played y’all in the qualifiers this past weekend, would have been a fun and more even match to stream, watch, and play.

Aaron.2413:

/facepalm “we”

Sad that you are incapable of acting like an adult for even this one, short moment. You, specifically, could take some serious advice from this thread. The NA scene honestly suffers from mentalities such as yours.

rsq.3581:

Well said, Steb. This is a message that any community, be it online or ‘irl’, can benefit from.

Would have loved to have played y’all in the qualifiers this past weekend, would have been a fun and more even match to stream, watch, and play.

Aaron.2413:

/facepalm “we”

Sad that you are incapable of acting like an adult for even this one, short moment. You, specifically, could take some serious advice from this thread. The NA scene honestly suffers from mentalities such as yours.

Whats wrong with my mentality? I simple use negative reinforcement to motivate others to succeed

TL;DR

y u wanna get rid of BM rangers? Their not even meta….

Well said.

After playing against your team and interacting with you and others afterwards, I couldn’t help but feel hope for the pvp community even if that is naive.

It was refreshing to interact with individuals that are positive, unbias, with hints of humor (Defektive as well).

Small moments of clarity, often caused by the actions of others, allow us to follow positive examples from the few rather than the negative from the populous.

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Let’s all stop being unfrandly towards each other and be frands with everybody! Take a lesson from Vee Wee, #1 frandliest person NA and everybody’s frand! Even teenagers!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

There is sometimes toxic behavior at all levels. It’s unfortunate when it’s top down, which is sometimes the case. However, for things that operate on the platform we know and love as the internet internet anyone is able to have a say, that’s the beautiful and ugly thing about it.

Anyone can do/say anything they want at a moments notice, and passion and emotion is not something that everyone can keep in check. So when you see great joy expressed in competition, it’s not surprising that you’d also see malice expressed too.

Ultimately each individual within the community is capable of eliminating there own toxic behavior, but that’s not a realistic expectation to have all the time. To reduce toxicity the best players can currently do is hold themselves accountable for there own actions, communicate constructively, and when they encounter toxic behavior to denounce it, while not feeding it.

It’s easier to destroy than build, there’s truth to that, but communicating “YOU’RE SO BAD, QUIT THIS GAME AND RL” instead of “The team needed you at point A, not B” hurts the community as a whole, especially when that negativity gets fed further and further.

Ugh reading is hard

1) yeah please don’t be eejits, everyone

Steb.2571:

-Steb #1 Downstate NA

2) ^ totally stealing this.

I have a song of my affection I wish to share with you friends.

It’s quite simple.

+1 to your post, OP. Maybe other games can have a toxic, trash talking PvP community, but I’d like to think that we here in GW2 can hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Zaxares.5419:

+1 to your post, OP. Maybe other games can have a toxic, trash talking PvP community, but I’d like to think that we here in GW2 can hold ourselves to a higher standard.

Some communities are better / worse than others. Unfortunately, GW2’s PvP scene is pretty toxic in general.

Fact: Most emotionally engaged criticism directed towards another are projection.

If people keep this in mind, life becomes so much easier for everyone.

^That’s a fact? Tell us the evidence for that incredibly general statement.

Trash talking is fine, constantly harassing people in map chat/ team chat/ whispers is not ok… I find hotjoins to be more enjoyable now then Solo Arenas…. After hitting dragon I had little to no interest to join a solo arena and listen to all the toxicity from both teams about different players.

Wolfey.3407:

Trash talking is fine

Not really, that’s what breeds toxicity, and people are fine with it until they lose and it happens to them, you won, take it with grace, rubbing salt in the wound just kittenes people off and they in turn treat others badly, perpetuating this bullkitten is what causes a toxic community to spread like wildfire.

Playfully messing with the other team in good fun is much different than telling people their trash, etc.

Yep, I mean I am not goint to say it is not the community’s fault that people with less than 200 matches played are calling one another “PvE Scrubs” and more about murdering their families (no screenshots since I usually leave after)

Let’s put an end to the ‘funny’ picture and video replies. Steb you are more guilty of speaking in memes than BMing people, imo.

Chaith.8256:

Let’s put an end to the ‘funny’ picture and video replies. Steb you are more guilty of speaking in memes than BMing people, imo.

Thank you so much for this. You have no idea

Hello frands! Vee Wee here, #1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!

Vee Wee tries to be as frandly as possible to everyone in hopes that it would rub off! Unfortunately not! It’s too difficult to be frands with everyone! But not for Vee Wee! Vee Wee will continue to be frandly to anyone and everyone!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Chaith.8256:

Let’s put an end to the ‘funny’ picture and video replies. Steb you are more guilty of speaking in memes than BMing people, imo.

DOn’t be so.. toxic..

prisu, someone tell me, what is BM!?

domo arrigato, mr roboto!!!!

tanztante.6532:

prisu, someone tell me, what is BM!?

domo arrigato, mr roboto!!!!

Bad Manners.

aaaaah,... thank you

50% the world is a kitten, 50% Get thick skin.

Society nurtures bad manners nowadays. Be the exception, but realize you cannot make your standard the rule.

Be nice to people whenever you can. The last thing you’d need is to get poisoned by the rotten personalities on this game and become part of the problem.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

50% the world is a kitten, 50% Get thick skin.

Society nurtures bad manners nowadays. Be the exception, but realize you cannot make your standard the rule.

Be nice to people whenever you can. The last thing you’d need is to get poisoned by the rotten personalities on this game and become part of the problem.

It’s not that I’m trying to make it a rule, I’m pleading with my fellow gamers to help me create a better community for all of us to play in. And it’s such a small community, that if a few of us take a stance on trying to be better towards one another, we can make a big impact, and set an example for others to follow, and lead by example.

People respect respectful people, and it’s hard to show disrespect when you’re being shown the opposite, and instead of toxicity breeding toxicity, I’d rather we have respect breeding respect amongst fellow gamers and pvpers.

Edit: Just fixing the thread, was broken.

I think a community can nurture a friendly atmosphere. It only takes a couple of people to set a good example and shun those that misbehave.

I recently came back to this game and after a couple of weeks of getting my moves back on in hotjoin I decided to do something more serious. Before the match I stated that I was still learning and wouldn’t mind if people gave me hints or told me what to do. Instead of constructive criticism, I was yelled down when I made a mistake. Now, I’ve played enough games over the years and my skin is thick enough so I can handle some name-calling, but that doesn’t make it right. It’s also a good way to scare away newer players, making the community stale and even more obnoxious.

And there’s a difference between trash talking and insulting. Trash talking is done out of some mutual respect and to play headgames. You should at least have some connections with the person you are trash talking to. If you’ve played a couple of games against the same opponent, and they’ve indicated they recognize you, it can be fun to diss them somewhat. But keep in mind that tone is hard to convey in text communication. Err on the side of caution.

If you’re talking down to a player on your team or to someone you have no connection to, that’s creeping closer to the line of verbal abuse and is more likely to hurt the other person than to improve their game.

One part of trash talking is that you’re also willing to tell the recipient they did a good job at the end of the match, or offer constructive criticism. If at the start of the match you’re all like: “You guys couldn’t even kill a pack dolyak,” but at the end of the match you’re like: “Thanks for the good fight.” I think that’s okay.

Err on the side of being too friendly, though. You’ve literally got nothing to lose by being nice or staying quiet.