Guild Wars 2

How can downstate be improved in PVP? How can we remove the annoying/boring elements of downstate, while still reaping from its benefits?

First it is taking up a large portion of my PVP time that could be spent playing my character not a 4 button mini-game in which I can’t even move.

On the opposite side, having to stomp people is not fun either. Interrupt, OK stomp again. Vanished, ok walk over to stomp again. Come on, I want to play my skill bar in a toe-to-toe battle, not spend time chasing around a downed player.

1. Is it fun for the esport audience to see some dude laying on the ground flining rocks? We have the most skilled player but all we get to see him do is fling rocks at people.

1v1 downstate fights last forever. You down someone with barely any hp left. They throw rocks at you and now you’re down. You fling rocks at each other for 15 seconds.

3. One less area where the dev’s have to worry about balance if it’s the same across all classes. Have more time to focus on balancing the actual game, not a mini-game.

4. Teams/players are using downstate to grief people “strategically.” They don’t stomp you, they just let you sit in a constant low hp in downstate and you must bleed it out. Not a very exciting strategy to watch as an esport.

5. Yes downstate/reviving has strategic decisions to them, but just because something is strategic or even balanced does not mean it’s FUN.

The uber-competitive player will use any strategy to win and not complain about it being fun, as long as it’s “balanced.” However, the majority of playerbase is attracted to a balanced, strategic, and FUN game.The toe-to-toe combat in this game is amazing! But downstate, ugh…

Please let’s discuss how to improve downstate shall we?

Agree 100%. No fun whatsoever imo. Please give me a ‘self destruct’ 5 button. This, and underwater combat. Seems to me these two features were added as something diffetent from other mmos. Well, it hasn’t worked as far as I am concerned. Don’t do something new for the sake of it. Extra balance issues to take care of and just frankly boring.

Land combat while not downed – amazingly good fun. When I am knocked down, for the love of god just let me respawn…

Based on your post I assume you don’t do serious tPvP but just random free tournaments and/or Hot Join, because let me tell you this: if you remove downed state it will only unbalance the game even more, why? Because burst builds will be mandatory, a player will get bursted down without a chance to come back into the fight, also in serious tournament matches the enemy rarely gets stomped on the first try, as soon as he goes down there’s at least 1 player ressing him, and the res is faster than the stomp as long as the downed player isn’t taking any dmg/is poisoned, therefore downed state is needed to balance the game since it lacks a dedicated healing class and would make burst builds too strong.

Downstate is somewhat both OP and fun/good. That you can get ressed and be then get downed unlimited times is kind of sad. I would prefer that if you rally or get revived, then next time you die, you die.

I don’t particularly enjoy the downed state in general but Adwila is correct – the entire game is balanced around it, so you can’t just remove it.

However, I wouldn’t mind if it was adjusted. Like… just make all the downed states identical or something. Reduce the damage players are able to put out while downed – I mean, do phantasmal rogues really need to hit for 5k and does trail of knives really need to cripple and bounce and do absurd damage and be affected by critical haste?

Makes no sense imo.

Also the rally system needs to be adjusted so that an entire team doesn’t insta-rally off of a single kill. Put a cap on it or something. Maybe even make it 1:1.

While I don’t see the point of the first half of your argument, that a large potion of YOUR PvP is in the downstate and that your fingers are sore, I can say something about the other half.

I personally think that there should be some sort of suicide button that becomes available after a certain amount of time. But, I think your perception of what is considered fun is misunderstood. You imply that if there was no downstate, the game would be more fun. Yet, I disagree. Whether you win or lose a fight, someone is not going to have fun. Removing the downstate wouldn’t change that. However, a counter argument could be made that downstate prolongs this period of “unfun”. From which I could say that this is true to a degree. Like you said, it adds an element of strategy, which is not fun for YOU. But you have to remember, this game wasn’t designed to please everyone. A lot of people enjoy the strategic aspect of PvP. Also, for most competitive players fun comes from beating an opponent and ultimately winning. Most of the time, how they do it is not relevant. I believe that’s why there isn’t much complaint from them.

Point is, your only valid complaint is that you are forced to bleed out most of the time. For which I suggest the notion of a suicide button that appears after a certain amount of time.

This topic again… Downed state is there to prevent dps spikes on single target and to add more strategy in pvp. Usually the players that complain about this are the ones that do not play any tpvp, or just go with random ppl there to get killed.

Also: 4. Teams/players are using downstate to grief people “strategically.” They don’t stomp you, they just let you sit in a constant low hp in downstate and you can’t do a thing about it.

You can do something – STOP HEALING YOURSELF. Also it is a risky strategy, since you are potentially keeping an enemy near you who can be ressurected by his allies anytime.

As much as i see the argument, though stupid in my humble opinion, of down state the balance for burst builds, there is a clear cut problem which the OP has pointed out:

It is agreed in every poll , guru, ign , anecdotal, wvw chat, gvg chat, my lost brothers from a different mothers hearsay ……. Down state is NOT fun.

Nothing to do with imbalance or balance, or another feature, but unfortunately, its just not fun. And you know what they say about thing that are not fun, dont play it. If arena.net cant see that there is a single abhorrent aspect of their game that is not fun , and do nothing to correct it then , from a business point of view, some mandatory board meeting and change of CEO’s is in order.

Here’s the other kicker, its not down state abilities that piss most people off, its the rally system, food for thought.

Vile.5678:

. Like you said, it adds an element of strategy, which is not fun for YOU.

You’ll find that more people want it removed, rather than revamped/tweaked or left alone.

Lukin.4061:

Downed state is there to prevent dps spikes on single target and to add more strategy in pvp.

Burst will be addressed in the upcoming patch, and it’s not like you don’t/won’t have the tools to mitigate/dodge/evade dps spikes. What then, the down state’s only there to piss us off?

I fought this Ranger 1v1 the other day. He took out maybe 20% of my hp before i downed him. I ran over to stomp. He did Lightning/Pet Howl/Pet Stun. By the time i stomped him, i was at about 20% of my hp left. The dude did around quadruple the amount of damage in downed than when alive. How could you design something like this? Is this not totally broken?

Now lets talk about the fun of downed state. I mean, Anet cant balance damage so they put in another system that they cant balance either, fine, i guess thats a super great idea. But how fun is it?
Why do i need to watch and wait for that animation every kitten time? Why am i forced to play that boring cat and mouse minigame. Why did i rally against the guy that owned me right before that stomp because a thief facerolled his face 100 yards off in the distance and got a kill? Why do classes with many forms of stealth and stability end up as amazing stompers, are they balanced around this?

Why is it so anticlimactic to kill people? Enemies never see like they’re hurting, im flinging fire, summoning diseases inside your kitten and stabbing people in their eyes yet when that little bar runs out they are magically healed and poof fine again. There is never any release of excitement thus usually no buildup either, when you ‘kill’ somebody it actually doesnt mean much as there is still so much that can happen, all your work can be undone by a bubbled monkey running to the downed player who presses 2 buttons. And why does it take 50 sword hits to kill a downed yet only 1 FLAG? Why dont we all just run around with flags then?

Why do we need to do a 2 button Polymock battle whenever we beat somebody? It just kills the fun and drags out what should be fast paced action with a boring, repeated, anticlimactic funmongering mechanic that you cant balance because you cant balance even more things.

Chakuna.6325:

Burst will be addressed in the upcoming patch, and it’s not like you don’t/won’t have the tools to mitigate/dodge/evade dps spikes. What then, the down state’s only there to piss us off?

Burst will be adressed , but getting nuked by 4 wont help much
If they remove the down states they have 2 options :

a) give all classes the ability to heal others at full life in 2 sec (healers) . Like the Guardian ulti that can aoe heal all ppl , without cd .

b) nerf bunkers , nerf burst , and nerf to oblivion any dps abilities so 1v4 will last atleat 10 sec

I am up for option <<A>> . My Engineer will love the <<heal and run>> , instead of <<kite and run >> mentality i am using atm :P

Chakuna.6325:

Vile.5678:

. Like you said, it adds an element of strategy, which is not fun for YOU.

You’ll find that more people want it removed, rather than revamped/tweaked or left alone.

That’s a hefty assumption to make. To know what the majority wants and doesn’t want regarding downstate would be difficult. For example, if you asked people as they browse the forum what they think of downstate you’d probably be right that most don’t like it. But there are two major factors about doing this. For one, the forums is generally where people come to complain. This is obvious. However the other is based more so on the time in which you ask. The downstate is directly related to death/losing. Being in the downstate usually means you have lost and that’s that. I think it’s very safe to assume most people don’t like losing. But, imagine them at a different point in time, instead in combat. What if they are revived and ultimately win a battle because of this? Their opinions might be different at that point of time relative to a time if they were doing something else. I hope this adds some complexity to the decision, so it’s not so clear cut as some are making it to be. Also, this doesn’t mean I’m right. Perhaps it is better to remove the downstate. The decision lies ultimately with Anet.

I suggested the bleed out option to OP because his/her major complaint seemed to be rooted in that in competitive play, in which they force you to bleed out to prolong your ineffectiveness.

“Burst will be addressed in the upcoming patch, and it’s not like you don’t/won’t have the tools to mitigate/dodge/evade dps spikes. What then, the down state’s only there to piss us off?”

You do know if they say it will be addressed, it does not mean it will be removed somehow (and it does not actually guarantee it will be addressed, but that is another topic)? And yes – every class has tools to deal with dps burst, but these tools are more viable at 1×1, not group fights, let me give you an example:

So lets say necromancer in the beginning of the match goes to center point with 2 allies and meet up with 3 enemies. Since necromancer has no life force at the start of the match and everybody knows that, he gets focused first. Also he has very little utility skills to prevent incoming dmg (well of blindness if they are too stupid to stand in it lasts few seconds, and spectral armor, that is on 90 sec cd). So because he also lacks mobility to escape necromancer has his hp down to 0 in couple of seconds. With downed state he can be quickly ressurected by his 2 allies and continue fighting and getting more life force to get the only ability that is not bad for soaking up dmg, without it he is dead, waiting for respawn, and there is a big chance you will loose the center point since enemy now outnumbers you 3 to 2 in few seconds of the match.

Some may disagree with me, but still if there would be no downed state the burst classes with focus targeting would reign supreme (and no – I do not think that after this patch burst dmg will be somehow removed or changed whatsoever).

“a) give all classes the ability to heal others at full life in 2 sec (healers) . Like the Guardian ulti that can aoe heal all ppl , without cd .”

There MUST be no healers in this game, its the one of the main things that makes pvp interesting – no unskilled player is rewarded just because he has a pocket healer, like it is in other games like wow…

Vile.5678:

Chakuna.6325:

Vile.5678:

. Like you said, it adds an element of strategy, which is not fun for YOU.

You’ll find that more people want it removed, rather than revamped/tweaked or left alone.

The downstate is directly related to death/losing.

How is that? If i die 10 times or kill someone 10 times, there is still the downed state 10 times. You actually make even less sense than that because in other games when you drop to 0% hp you DIE, in this game you get another chance or can at least stall a little. Which should make ‘death/losing’ less frustrating.

i actually love the downed state. but it needs tweaks. bunkers should be able to knock people around or get as much stability as they do currently. and thieves should not be able to disappear 3 times before getting stomped. mesmers should not be able to do so much dps. it’s ridiculous.

GankSinatra.2653:

Vile.5678:

Chakuna.6325:

Vile.5678:

. Like you said, it adds an element of strategy, which is not fun for YOU.

You’ll find that more people want it removed, rather than revamped/tweaked or left alone.

The downstate is directly related to death/losing.

How is that? If i die 10 times or kill someone 10 times, there is still the downed state 10 times. You actually make even less sense than that because in other games when you drop to 0% hp you DIE, in this game you get another chance or can at least stall a little. Which should make ‘death/losing’ less frustrating.

Because you usually die from being in downstate that’s why.
For the rest of what you said… What’s your point? You said only something that everyone already knows. Yes, we have a downstate most games don’t.

GankSinatra.2653:

Which should make ‘death/losing’ less frustrating.

Did you read the rest of what I posted?

I really applaud them trying to do something different. It does add extra strategy to PvP. Having said that. I hate it. It’s not for any other reason than the fact that, to me, it’s not fun. Not at all. I don’t like stomping and I don’t like being stomped.

I feel it really takes the flow out of the game. You go from fun dynamic combat to trying to chase a guy on his butt around while he throws rocks at you. Then, he may completely revive just because he happened to tag someone that is now dying 50 yards away.

I fully understand that as with everything in life, there will be some people that like something and others that don’t. I can tell you from speaking to my own friends, and my guild and people here on the forums, overall it is a large majority that dislike it, just because it’s not fun.

And for people saying this is the only solution to burst…that’s insane. This is currently a safety net for burst, but burst needs to get controlled. This system is not the solution for burst.

downed state is basically required since they thought no healers was a good idea. it sucks but its how they designed it. i would have much rather they added healers and remove awful downed, but wont happen.

Easterlily.5836:

Downstate is somewhat both OP and fun/good. That you can get ressed and be then get downed unlimited times is kind of sad. I would prefer that if you rally or get revived, then next time you die, you die.

Do you know that if you are downed 5 times in a short time you istantly die…….right?

Archaon.6245:

Easterlily.5836:

Downstate is somewhat both OP and fun/good. That you can get ressed and be then get downed unlimited times is kind of sad. I would prefer that if you rally or get revived, then next time you die, you die.

Do you know that if you are downed 5 times in a short time you istantly die…….right?

5 Times is silly. If they HAVE to keep it, it should be 1 time, then insta-death.

maybe 3 times would be enough…but it’s fun that actually people complain (As usual) about things without know s**** about what they’re posting

no unskilled player is rewarded just because he has a pocket healer

I’m sorry, but as it stands now, GW2 is the game which rewards unskilled players the most.
In any other game you would be able to kill 3/4 unskilled players by yourself, on GW2 you can’t, simply because they keep ressing each other over and over till you get bored and leave.

In TPvP the team which is able to interupt most stomps meanwhile covering theirs wins, the “PvP ability” of a player is secondary, since it doesn’t matter if you’re the first to score a kill, like it doesn’t matter if you’re able to “kill” (let’s say down) someone in a 2v1, he will just get ressed.

“Let’s remove healers but give players the ability to ress themself over and over meanwhile they keep dying because there are no healers”, really an awesome and smart idea, I must admit.

Downed state is an addition.. a new feature. In my opinion when balanced a bit better its really cool and handy.
No complaints here and i hope they never even think about removing downed state

Adwila.1392:

Based on your post I assume you don’t do serious tPvP but just random free tournaments and/or Hot Join, because let me tell you this: if you remove downed state it will only unbalance the game even more, why? Because burst builds will be mandatory, a player will get bursted down without a chance to come back into the fight, also in serious tournament matches the enemy rarely gets stomped on the first try, as soon as he goes down there’s at least 1 player ressing him, and the res is faster than the stomp as long as the downed player isn’t taking any dmg/is poisoned, therefore downed state is needed to balance the game since it lacks a dedicated healing class and would make burst builds too strong.

+1 for your post!

The only thing we need is balance of downed mode. While some classees are easy stomp, some can be stomped easily with stability, blind, block, distorsion etc. and some are kings and you can´t stomp them earlier then second try.

Also power builds have upper hand on condition ones while in downed state. In fact i would be happy if the nr 1 skill in downed state does have fixed value of dmg same for all clasees no matter on attributes..

I like the downed state. It adds a whole new level on strategy and gameplay.
However, there are a few things I’d like to see changed:

• pets despawn on downed state. Every kind of pet: ranger beasts, necro minions, illusions/clones, what have you. It doesn’t make sense that some classes can keep damaging you just as if they were still up.
• some downed skills need to be reconsidered. Besides Thieves and Mesmers which can make you waste tons of time by teleporting around, Warrior represents another problem. Either you stomp him as quickly as possible or he hands your kitten over to you.
• the damage during downed state need to be normalized. Thief still deals tons of damage when downed.
• remove Rallying. It’s just stupid that when I get stomped during intense team fights, 3 people magically get up. To recover from downed state, either you do it yourself by hitting 4, or a team mate needs to help you. Rallying is just unfair at times.

Remove downed state and Thieves WILL rule the roost. Right now, the only reason Thieves are balanced in high level PvP is because, sure, they can instantly down someone but the chances of getting the stomp will be slim if the enemy team are any good.

With no downed state, the objective of the game will be to burst someone down as quickly as possible and when they’re dead, they’re dead. The downed state prevents burst from being the be all and end all. Right now, 5 Thieves would just fail in tournaments thanks to downed state. Remove it and 5 backstab Thieves becomes viable. Same applies to Hundred Blades Warriors to an extent.

The balance of the different downed states needs looked at a bit, however.

I disagree. I played a Mesmer yesterday and came up against three opponents, I went into down state (of curse), but I then managed to escape all three of them by using my clones and stealth to confuse them. Escaping from downed state is one of the best feelings in PvP. It’s the feeling that you escaped death, while it was standing right in front of you. Another thing I love to do as a Thief, when I see a downed ally, is to stealth to the opponent that’s about to stomp him, daze him, make myself and my ally invisible, pop my quickness, and then revive my ally. Now the game is turned around, and we are suddenly fighting 2v1.

I think the problem is that most players who doesn’t like the downed state, are still considering it as something extra that you have to do. But that is the wrong mentality to have. The downed state is a part of the game, just like your healing skill is. Your opponent is not dead or defeated, before you have drained his life in downed state.

they are not gonna remove it so let me just say this. i dont like when enemy player gets rallyed by some fight a mile away! there should be a reasonable aoe distance for rally

besbin.6302:

Agree 100%. No fun whatsoever imo. Please give me a ‘self destruct’ 5 button. This, and underwater combat. Seems to me these two features were added as something diffetent from other mmos. Well, it hasn’t worked as far as I am concerned. Don’t do something new for the sake of it. Extra balance issues to take care of and just frankly boring.

Land combat while not downed – amazingly good fun. When I am knocked down, for the love of god just let me respawn…

This is the right idea.

DoubleUnder.9052:

besbin.6302:

Agree 100%. No fun whatsoever imo. Please give me a ‘self destruct’ 5 button. This, and underwater combat. Seems to me these two features were added as something diffetent from other mmos. Well, it hasn’t worked as far as I am concerned. Don’t do something new for the sake of it. Extra balance issues to take care of and just frankly boring.

Land combat while not downed – amazingly good fun. When I am knocked down, for the love of god just let me respawn…

This is the right idea.

Player’s already d/c to give the middle finger to their stomper .-.
If they add a button like this it should be an automatic 25 points for opposing team.

Anyways, to address those saying the possible burst nerf will get rid of the need for downed, you’re thinking too narrowly. Back in GW 1, a popular tactic for quickly killing an opponent was Spiking. For those that don’t know, Spiking is basically when multiple members of a team, burst down a single enemy target. If you think BS burst impossible to survive, think 5 people bursting you down in the blink of an eye. And the only way to nerf something like that is to nerf everyone the point that a glass cannon Ele would have the survivability of a Bunker Guardian. (And bunker guardian may as well be a keep wall)

Personally I like the downed system. Only tweak I’d make is decreasing Rally’s effective range.

I can’t believe ANET still haven’t removed the downed state from pvp yet, its going to kill their game in the end.

Downstate is fine as it adds another strategic factor to the game.
Downed skills have to be reworked though AND res effectiveness has to be reworked completely. Ressing your allies is way too op at the current state. You can start ressing even after the enemy started his cast and still rally your ally.
Against decent players you can’t win a 1v2 unless you kill the second enemy before the first is rallied. Even though you are the better player you still can’t win because your enemies keep ressing.

I hate the downed-state as much as most people here. I see it’s necessary for PvE but it’s detrimental to PvP.

While I’d like to see it removed or completely reworked, two simple changes would make it at least somewhat bearable.

1. Any direct damage (not condition damage ticks) should interrupt a rezzurection process. That means anyone, even players without a knock-down or daze can interrupt a rezzurection. That should at least curb the idiocy of near instant rezzing in group fights.

1. Reviving a dead player should only be possible out of combat. This would limit the extent to which people can rezz dead players in Siege situations and actually give defenders a reasonable chance of fending off an attack.

Since when is downed state a necessary counter to burst? No pvp game before this ever had to rely on some horrible, unenjoyable mechanic as a bandaid counter. If people are dying too fast, lower burst. If the damage is OK, add more defensive options. I can’t remember the name of the spell in GW1, maybe Aegis, but monks were able to cast a short duration buff that massively reduced incoming damage. Worked perfectly fine to counter burst teams.

I think downed state is fine,it adds an extra element to the game, however the way it is now is absolutely ridiculous.
Some classes such as rangers and guardians get 1 interrupt and that’s it, meanwhile some others like thieves and mesmers get multiple teleport/stealth abilities forcing players to spend a considerable amount of time to try and finish them off,while also doing absurb damage from a downstate…

They need to homogenize downstate and have the following for all classes:
1. An average damage hitting attack.
2. One AOE interrupt/knockback ability on an average cooldown.
(Countered by stability)
3. An average PbAoE damaging or healing ability on a long cooldown.
4. The selfhealing ability they have now for ressing.

Also quickness should be removed from the game or not affect ressing allies speed.
Downstate health could also use some reduction.It takes too long to kill a downed player.

I <3 downstate.

OneManArmy.5617:

I think downed state is fine,it adds an extra element to the game, however the way it is now is absolutely ridiculous.
Some classes such as rangers and guardians get 1 interrupt and that’s it, meanwhile some others like thieves and mesmers get multiple teleport/stealth abilities forcing players to spend a considerable amount of time to try and finish them off,while also doing absurb damage from a downstate…

They need to homogenize downstate and have the following for all classes:
1. An average damage hitting attack.
2. One AOE interrupt/knockback ability on an average cooldown.
(Countered by stability)
3. An average PbAoE damaging or healing ability on a long cooldown.
4. The selfhealing ability they have now for ressing.

Also quickness should be removed from the game or not affect ressing allies speed.
Downstate health could also use some reduction.It takes too long to kill a downed player.

I’m with this guy. If you’re going to make a downed state, at least make it decently balanced. At this point thief, mesmer, ele, and hunter with the right pets have downed states that are much more powerful than the other 4 classes.

Downed enemies shouldn’t be a threat unless they rez.

The only problem I see with downed state is the timer griefing. Strategic stomping can really scatter some teams. Other than that I think it’s a great mechanic that adds another level of combat gives a team another way to prove how better they are than the enemy.

When it comes to dealing with bodies you need to have a plan. Fast stability stomps? AoE to try to slow their res if they’re a quick ressing group? I’ve seen a lot of stuff but there’s an answer to every stomp/res strat.

Downed state is one of the worst decisions for an mmo I’ve ever seen. Oh sure, it works in Borderlands, so what. As the OP said- everything around downed state is tedious, and honestly this mechanic alone ruins pvp entirely. That dungeons are built around it and GY zerging means this terrible mechanic has ruined pvp and pve.

However- as people have said, it’s too late. The game is literally built around it, removing it would be like removing gear from WoW or hacks from Counterstrike.

down state: 1) remove ability to dmg player while downed, 2) all classes should have same interrupt ability for finishing move, 3) all classes should have ability to self terminate 4) self heal skill is ok

this way it is really a strategic game mechanic. it isnt that bad as a concept to have your team mates res you, but everything else is just overthinked by anet. keep it simple, keep it safe:)

fungihoujo.8476:

Downed state is one of the worst decisions for an mmo I’ve ever seen. Oh sure, it works in Borderlands, so what. As the OP said- everything around downed state is tedious, and honestly this mechanic alone ruins pvp entirely. That dungeons are built around it and GY zerging means this terrible mechanic has ruined pvp and pve.

However- as people have said, it’s too late. The game is literally built around it, removing it would be like removing gear from WoW or hacks from Counterstrike.

I can’t add anything to it. That’s bare bones truth as it is.

I vote yes for self-terminate. Maybe even a new respawn system…

gwawer.9805:

1. Seriously though, is it fun for the esport audience to see some dude laying on the ground flining rocks?

Actually yes it is, it adds depth, a point of interest, / tension for example when a guy is attempting to stomp someone, with that stomp it will also rally his teammate and totally turn the situation around if he makes it…

The only part of the game where the down state is bad is WvW where it simply increases the advanatage the larger group in an encounter already have, in sPvP it is great and good teams seem to trait/select skills/plan for it.

The only issue with it is some down states seem better than others.

Are there any posters in this thread with even a single QP saying the downstate is bad?

Down state is a crutch for baddies. It lets them win by having numbers. Take a good player, he can down 3 people in 1v3, due to numbers he cant finish any of them for good. Remove down mech and suddenly he kills 3 people 1v3 due to his skill of being a better player. Why promote less skill? Someone will come along and say “hurr he should have had teammates team work!”. Just because you are not with teammates for a certain moment does not mean you should die when you are outnumbered. “hurr run away its the smart thing!” Why should I run when I know without the downed mech I could finish all of them off? Its making you change your tactics all based on a system of the game and not a players skill.

Keep downed state, replace all 4 skills with a single suicide button.

Boom, all the strategic elements the pro-downed state guys want with reviving and stomping, without making stomping totally mandatory in certain situations. Prevents griefing through the slow bleeding out process. No balancing necessary. Don’t think you’ll get revived before the next respawn cycle? Just suicide. Think your team can get you up before the next cycle? Wait it out, suicide if they can’t.

Will allow 2v1s to happen without leaving you completely vulnerable for a few seconds, effectively negating any skill advantage you have over your opponents. It allows the second person to still revive the first if the single player has no interrupt available, or gets CC’d just before the stomp.

Take away the downstate and the game sucks because people would just burst you? So?

DAOC has be said to STILL be the best pvp mmo out there. DAOC was all about bursting and CC, that’s what made the combat so exciting. Being a rogue watching a duo run down the road and picking off the mage real fast so you can 1v1 the warrior was so fun!

You cannot do that in this game because of the downstate. It is difficult to impossible to win a 2v1 against even terrible players, because they keep rezing each other. This is basically equivalent to everyone having a heal bot.

They took away healers to kill the holy trinity, but downstate makes it almost a guarantee in every fight…

Aldrin.8620:

Take away the downstate and the game sucks because people would just burst you? So?

DAOC has be said to STILL be the best pvp mmo out there. DAOC was all about bursting and CC, that’s what made the combat so exciting. Being a rogue watching a duo run down the road and picking off the mage real fast so you can 1v1 the warrior was so fun!

You cannot do that in this game because of the downstate. It is difficult to impossible to win a 2v1 against even terrible players, because they keep rezing each other. This is basically equivalent to everyone having a heal bot.

They took away healers to kill the holy trinity, but downstate makes it almost a guarantee in every fight…

Wut? interrupt/CC the guy trying to ress, or just straight stomp the downed guy if they’re that terrible. You gonna be smart too, you know. You can even use quickness+stomp to get rid of the downed guy fast. 2 v 1 is still okay, the problem is when its a 3 v 1.

The Problems I do have with downed state:

- When you are downed you can get revived a ways too fast by your teammate (you can’t finish your target with a stomp if you start to cast the stomp just 1/4 sec after the enemy did start the revive)

- The Downed skills are just not balanced … Ele went from zero to hero now while Necro does still has a one target fear? … Downed state should just have 2 buttons … Suicide or Fight to Survive … not even an AoE Interrupt because you LIVING TEAMMATES should take care about if they waste the knockbacks to get a rezz on you

- Downed players do have much more health then living ppl .. I mean comon oO? you are downed and suddenly you turn into Hulk? … Hulk gonna smash you …

- Downed players shouldn’t interrupt the Neutralization/Capping of a point

- Downed players just shouldn’t be able to deal such crazy dmg!!! They maybe should be able to throw things with like 20 dmg on someone to get a rally but wtf man they keep throwing dirt on you with 2k crits?

- ALL Npcs should die as soon as you get into downed state since you don’t really stand any chance if you get into a downed fight vs a mesmer or a ranger or a thief with Thieves Guild

- Runes and Sigils shouldn’t be able to activate when a downed player gets hit or hits a target

Your comment about the thief bursting down mage to fight warrior in DaoC doesn’t sound very fun to me. If it’s another burst class that makes fights frustrating for everyone else then that’s not the direction to go. Fun for thief, but ruins PVP overall, just like certain builds are atm in gw2.

You should be able to win a 2v1 but not through OMG I PWNED HIM IN 2sec LAWL but rather through excellently timed mitigation and interrupts. That makes an audience say dammmn this dude is amazing he just 2v1’ed those guys. Rather than…wow that thief does so much damage he can own 2 people.