Guild Wars 2

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

A game can have many players, without competition PvP is just meh. Competing and progression is the essential part of why PvP is existing in games. The big side-effect of this is called “Fun”.
Guildwars 2 may have many players playing it, but that doesn’t make the game successful (PvP-wise) at all. Why there is a huge number of players listed? There was a feature called “Daily Achievement”, mabye you heard bout it. ESL and PAX? Not gonna comment on that, we all know that was a joke (or a Pet-Zoo how the development calls it).

A puzzle would be a good analogy for that. 10 pieces won’t satisfy / challenge you for a long time. It gets boring quiet fast, because it is mastered quiet fast. A puzzle with 10’000 pieces will satisfy you for a longer period of time. Not just because it has more pieces, but because it is more challenging and more rewarding, due to the fact, not everyone is able to master it / or not that fast. Seems like A-Net likes to sell 10-pieced-puzzles nowadays.

Well I’m not in this game to make money and those that are won’t make very much because trying to make money off of video games as a player is 1 really hard to do and 2 not very profitable. That’s what college is for

Agree, seems like you didn’t play guildwars1 then. I don’t want a E-Sport game. I want a challenging game with some competition and not a game where passive traits and spam doesn’t allow any skill-ceiling. It’s not fun to master a class after 1 day. :/

yeah… And to be fair people don’t “master” the classes after 1 day they find the cheesiest build that class has which means it is too effective for the amount of work that goes into it… Mastering any of the classes is something that is actually hard to do. However every class has cheese builds (phantasm mesmer, condi necro, stunlock warr, HGH nade engi) that you can pick up and run with and bee just a little too effective at almost everything.

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

A game can have many players, without competition PvP is just meh. Competing and progression is the essential part of why PvP is existing in games. The big side-effect of this is called “Fun”.
Guildwars 2 may have many players playing it, but that doesn’t make the game successful (PvP-wise) at all. Why there is a huge number of players listed? There was a feature called “Daily Achievement”, mabye you heard bout it. ESL and PAX? Not gonna comment on that, we all know that was a joke (or a Pet-Zoo how the development calls it).

A puzzle would be a good analogy for that. 10 pieces won’t satisfy / challenge you for a long time. It gets boring quiet fast, because it is mastered quiet fast. A puzzle with 10’000 pieces will satisfy you for a longer period of time. Not just because it has more pieces, but because it is more challenging and more rewarding, due to the fact, not everyone is able to master it / or not that fast. Seems like A-Net likes to sell 10-pieced-puzzles nowadays.

Well I’m not in this game to make money and those that are won’t make very much because trying to make money off of video games as a player is 1 really hard to do and 2 not very profitable. That’s what college is for

Agree, seems like you didn’t play guildwars1 then. I don’t want a E-Sport game. I want a challenging game with some competition and not a game where passive traits and spam doesn’t allow any skill-ceiling. It’s not fun to master a class after 1 day. :/

yeah… And to be fair people don’t “master” the classes after 1 day they find the cheesiest build that class has which means it is too effective for the amount of work that goes into it… Mastering any of the classes is something that is actually hard to do. However every class has cheese builds (phantasm mesmer, condi necro, stunlock warr, HGH nade engi) that you can pick up and run with and bee just a little too effective at almost everything.

Wasn’t specific enough there. Sure mastering a class needs somewhat longer. However be able to play at an effective level is done in one day with this meta (that’s what I meant -.-*). Besides that ppl can play their classes pretty bad and still succeed at high levels. I observed some so called “pro” players, which failed with placement of IoL etc. The worth of “mastering a class” is not valued enough in this game. Sadly not.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

A game can have many players, without competition PvP is just meh. Competing and progression is the essential part of why PvP is existing in games. The big side-effect of this is called “Fun”.
Guildwars 2 may have many players playing it, but that doesn’t make the game successful (PvP-wise) at all. Why there is a huge number of players listed? There was a feature called “Daily Achievement”, mabye you heard bout it. ESL and PAX? Not gonna comment on that, we all know that was a joke (or a Pet-Zoo how the development calls it).

A puzzle would be a good analogy for that. 10 pieces won’t satisfy / challenge you for a long time. It gets boring quiet fast, because it is mastered quiet fast. A puzzle with 10’000 pieces will satisfy you for a longer period of time. Not just because it has more pieces, but because it is more challenging and more rewarding, due to the fact, not everyone is able to master it / or not that fast. Seems like A-Net likes to sell 10-pieced-puzzles nowadays.

Well I’m not in this game to make money and those that are won’t make very much because trying to make money off of video games as a player is 1 really hard to do and 2 not very profitable. That’s what college is for

Agree, seems like you didn’t play guildwars1 then. I don’t want a E-Sport game. I want a challenging game with some competition and not a game where passive traits and spam doesn’t allow any skill-ceiling. It’s not fun to master a class after 1 day. :/

yeah… And to be fair people don’t “master” the classes after 1 day they find the cheesiest build that class has which means it is too effective for the amount of work that goes into it… Mastering any of the classes is something that is actually hard to do. However every class has cheese builds (phantasm mesmer, condi necro, stunlock warr, HGH nade engi) that you can pick up and run with and bee just a little too effective at almost everything.

Wasn’t specific enough there. Sure mastering a class needs somewhat longer. However be able to play at an effective level is done in one day with this meta (that’s what I meant -.-*). Besides that ppl can play their classes pretty bad and still succeed at high levels. I observed some so called “pro” players, which failed with placement of IoL etc. The worth of “mastering a class” is not valued enough in this game. Sadly not.

Well some of the “top” pvp’ers are clickers as I hear it… Kinda makes you go O.o

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

jportell.2197:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

A game can have many players, without competition PvP is just meh. Competing and progression is the essential part of why PvP is existing in games. The big side-effect of this is called “Fun”.
Guildwars 2 may have many players playing it, but that doesn’t make the game successful (PvP-wise) at all. Why there is a huge number of players listed? There was a feature called “Daily Achievement”, mabye you heard bout it. ESL and PAX? Not gonna comment on that, we all know that was a joke (or a Pet-Zoo how the development calls it).

A puzzle would be a good analogy for that. 10 pieces won’t satisfy / challenge you for a long time. It gets boring quiet fast, because it is mastered quiet fast. A puzzle with 10’000 pieces will satisfy you for a longer period of time. Not just because it has more pieces, but because it is more challenging and more rewarding, due to the fact, not everyone is able to master it / or not that fast. Seems like A-Net likes to sell 10-pieced-puzzles nowadays.

Well I’m not in this game to make money and those that are won’t make very much because trying to make money off of video games as a player is 1 really hard to do and 2 not very profitable. That’s what college is for

Agree, seems like you didn’t play guildwars1 then. I don’t want a E-Sport game. I want a challenging game with some competition and not a game where passive traits and spam doesn’t allow any skill-ceiling. It’s not fun to master a class after 1 day. :/

yeah… And to be fair people don’t “master” the classes after 1 day they find the cheesiest build that class has which means it is too effective for the amount of work that goes into it… Mastering any of the classes is something that is actually hard to do. However every class has cheese builds (phantasm mesmer, condi necro, stunlock warr, HGH nade engi) that you can pick up and run with and bee just a little too effective at almost everything.

Wasn’t specific enough there. Sure mastering a class needs somewhat longer. However be able to play at an effective level is done in one day with this meta (that’s what I meant -.-*). Besides that ppl can play their classes pretty bad and still succeed at high levels. I observed some so called “pro” players, which failed with placement of IoL etc. The worth of “mastering a class” is not valued enough in this game. Sadly not.

Well some of the “top” pvp’ers are clickers as I hear it… Kinda makes you go O.o

Well, I clicked for about 3 days because I changed my whole keyboard bar. So sorry for being not a machine learning it in 1 hour… but I doubt that’s the topic.

I don’t know how anybody can claim guild wars 2 has many people playing its pvp unless we are talking about hotjoins and custom arena’s which as far as I am concerned are some kind of illegitmate child of pvp. The amount of people regularly taking part in ranked arena matches is quite small when you consider this game sold millions of copies and is free. 5-10 minute queue (sometimes longer) times tells me that ranked arena pvp = not popular

Kwll.1468:

I don’t know how anybody can claim guild wars 2 has many people playing its pvp unless we are talking about hotjoins and custom arena’s which as far as I am concerned are some kind of illegitmate child of pvp. The amount of people regularly taking part in ranked arena matches is quite small when you consider this game sold millions of copies and is free. 5-10 minute queue (sometimes longer) times tells me that ranked arena pvp = not popular

Hotjoin is still part of spvp, contrary to what any body on this forum would like to believe.

Fix persistant lag since 1 week !!

The only survival s/d thieves have is evades. The only thing they need to fix is making it remove 1 boon instead of 2

Demonts.4593:

The only survival s/d thieves have is evades. The only thing they need to fix is making it remove 1 boon instead of 2

Yeah. They totally can’t teleport, remove conditions and stealth. They also don’t have insta cast heal with built in snare removal.

Loud speaker please.

Now This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things.

Context. Where are the problems?

Are they balance related?
Yeah, but more of a minor component.

Are they game play related?
Hell yes. This is the larger component that of course has quite a bit of cross over in regards to balance. This is making sure what is going on is clear to the players and providing ample opportunity to interact with.

What does this mean?
Who cares about specific match ups at this point. The game isn’t ready to be looked at, at this level. To address the gameplay issue is to destroy all the preconceived knowledge you may have about a specific matchup.

Step one.
Create base skills/traits that have depth and are within a range that allow interaction and counterplay on all fronts. So things that can be counter played only with x mechanic which not everyone has are a no go.

Step two
Reevaluate specific balance matchups. Tweaking numbers where appropriate but only in ways that won’t negatively effect interaction.

Eg. Case of Berserker’s stance. 8s duration is too long to play around. It is not reasonable to hold onto your conditions for 8s and still be able to win the fight afterwards. So duration is not the parameter to be adjusted. I would estimate 4 to 5 s would allow it to be played around. So what else can you work with? Cooldown. If it isn’t viable in the 4s range drop the cooldown slightly.

Now onto the purpose of this thread. Identifying things that promote poor gameplay. Once again lets put balance aside for a moment as that is step 2.

When looked at in this context Lordrosicky has a number of fair points. Obviously a some of them may negatively effect balance in the short term but after the second step would result in a better game. Though some of the ways of going about these issues I would disagree with.

I’ll just go over some things that fall outside of cast time or animation issues. This is the area that makes up the vast majority of issues. Its not something that is difficult to notice but it takes quite a bit of resources to fix so I’ll leave that to the devs.

Automated response – yeah that needs to be axe’d. Or rather adjusted in such a way it can be played around more. A good starting point would be setting limits. I don’t believe combined sources of passive condition reduction should go above 50% at any one instance. So if engi’s absolutely must have passive condition reduction it should be something like 50% reduction below 33% hp and it can’t be stacked with melandru’s.

Dodging – I like the concept of dodging. Though how it is currently limits the potential viability of what I would consider healthy changes. It is a strange interaction. Basically there is enough dodges available to blanket all major threats though a lot of major threats are paced at a speed that can’t be reacted to. This makes it so not all dodges are functional and end up being anticipatory. Now if all the major threats are paced such that they can all be reacted to more dodges become functional and a lot less things land. So this needs to be coupled with a reduction in dodge availability. Bye Bye sigil of energy. Bye Bye single traits that give 100% vigor uptime.

Bugged Refuge – Yeah I can’t imagine the initial concept of the skill was for the stealth to persist after it expired. It just was a bug that was kept to make up for when they added the revealed debuff. It is an aoe vs dodge check. Have enough AoE to kill the thief in 4s? Good you win. Don’t? Too bad he got away. Definitely needs some tweaks.

Fourth.1567:

Loud speaker please.

Now This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things.

Context. Where are the problems?

Are they balance related?
Yeah, but more of a minor component.

Are they game play related?
Hell yes. This is the larger component that of course has quite a bit of cross over in regards to balance. This is making sure what is going on is clear to the players and providing ample opportunity to interact with.

What does this mean?
Who cares about specific match ups at this point. The game isn’t ready to be looked at, at this level. To address the gameplay issue is to destroy all the preconceived knowledge you may have about a specific matchup.

Step one.
Create base skills/traits that have depth and are within a range that allow interaction and counterplay on all fronts. So things that can be counter played only with x mechanic which not everyone has are a no go.

Step two
Reevaluate specific balance matchups. Tweaking numbers where appropriate but only in ways that won’t negatively effect interaction.

Eg. Case of Berserker’s stance. 8s duration is too long to play around. It is not reasonable to hold onto your conditions for 8s and still be able to win the fight afterwards. So duration is not the parameter to be adjusted. I would estimate 4 to 5 s would allow it to be played around. So what else can you work with? Cooldown. If it isn’t viable in the 4s range drop the cooldown slightly.

Now onto the purpose of this thread. Identifying things that promote poor gameplay. Once again lets put balance aside for a moment as that is step 2.

When looked at in this context Lordrosicky has a number of fair points. Obviously a some of them may negatively effect balance in the short term but after the second step would result in a better game. Though some of the ways of going about these issues I would disagree with.

I’ll just go over some things that fall outside of cast time or animation issues. This is the area that makes up the vast majority of issues. Its not something that is difficult to notice but it takes quite a bit of resources to fix so I’ll leave that to the devs.

Automated response – yeah that needs to be axe’d. Or rather adjusted in such a way it can be played around more. A good starting point would be setting limits. I don’t believe combined sources of passive condition reduction should go above 50% at any one instance. So if engi’s absolutely must have passive condition reduction it should be something like 50% reduction below 33% hp and it can’t be stacked with melandru’s.

Dodging – I like the concept of dodging. Though how it is currently limits the potential viability of what I would consider healthy changes. It is a strange interaction. Basically there is enough dodges available to blanket all major threats though a lot of major threats are paced at a speed that can’t be reacted to. This makes it so not all dodges are functional and end up being anticipatory. Now if all the major threats are paced such that they can all be reacted to more dodges become functional and a lot less things land. So this needs to be coupled with a reduction in dodge availability. Bye Bye sigil of energy. Bye Bye single traits that give 100% vigor uptime.

Bugged Refuge – Yeah I can’t imagine the initial concept of the skill was for the stealth to persist after it expired. It just was a bug that was kept to make up for when they added the revealed debuff. It is an aoe vs dodge check. Have enough AoE to kill the thief in 4s? Good you win. Don’t? Too bad he got away. Definitely needs some tweaks.

Good post.

Again, I have said many times that balance is secondary to getting rid of the lameness. This thread is about lame and unfun stuff.

Balance can be sorted once the lame stuff is fixed.

Fourth.1567:

Bugged Refuge – Yeah I can’t imagine the initial concept of the skill was for the stealth to persist after it expired. It just was a bug that was kept to make up for when they added the revealed debuff. It is an aoe vs dodge check. Have enough AoE to kill the thief in 4s? Good you win. Don’t? Too bad he got away. Definitely needs some tweaks.

It has always been like this.

Again, there’s no way to change it, it should be removed completely, altough i know this would nerf significantly the thief ( thief has always had a role in the meta exactly thanks to this skill).

If you keep stealth only while you’re in the refuge, you’re basically marking your heads with a big arrow telling your enemies " ehy guise, HERE".

You won’t be able to use it as a reset, nor as a ress, nor as an offensive tool ( since as soon as you exit, you won’t be stealthed anymore).

This is the biggest source of stealth in the game, reason why it’s totally cheese.

It should be removed and replaced with a better, less cheesy utility.

Smoke screen is also a totally useless skill, they could remove them altogheter and rework deception skills, since basically only shadowstep and blinding powder are actually balanced.

Mrbig.8019:

Again, there’s no way to change it, it should be removed completely, altough i know this would nerf significantly the thief ( thief has always had a role in the meta exactly thanks to this skill).

If you keep stealth only while you’re in the refuge, you’re basically marking your heads with a big arrow telling your enemies " ehy guise, HERE".

You won’t be able to use it as a reset, nor as a ress, nor as an offensive tool ( since as soon as you exit, you won’t be stealthed anymore).

This is the biggest source of stealth in the game, reason why it’s totally cheese.

It should be removed and replaced with a better, less cheesy utility.

Smoke screen is also a totally useless skill, they could remove them altogheter and rework deception skills, since basically only shadowstep and blinding powder are actually balanced.

Just make the stealth after the refuge 3-5s whichever.
Could even up the heal to just shift the direction elsewhere.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Warrior-Traits-that-need-Revamped/first#post2902314

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/Blademaster-Revamp-please/first#post2906855

Also, please look at the minor traits in Vitality/Strength+Discipline’s 25 minor, they are quite horrible.

Healing Signet should get a 25% Base Reduction in PvP only.
Its counter is still poison and is still very weak to other classes. Engineers and Thieves and Necromancers destroy them if played correctly.

Warrior Stuns need nerfed, however something should be compensated for it, perhaps new traits to do something different.

If Berserker Stance gets nerfed, they need to add a trait that reduces stances cool-downs by 20% and perhaps change it from 8 to 12-15 seconds.

ensoriki.5789:

Mrbig.8019:

Again, there’s no way to change it, it should be removed completely, altough i know this would nerf significantly the thief ( thief has always had a role in the meta exactly thanks to this skill).

If you keep stealth only while you’re in the refuge, you’re basically marking your heads with a big arrow telling your enemies " ehy guise, HERE".

You won’t be able to use it as a reset, nor as a ress, nor as an offensive tool ( since as soon as you exit, you won’t be stealthed anymore).

This is the biggest source of stealth in the game, reason why it’s totally cheese.

It should be removed and replaced with a better, less cheesy utility.

Smoke screen is also a totally useless skill, they could remove them altogheter and rework deception skills, since basically only shadowstep and blinding powder are actually balanced.

Just make the stealth after the refuge 3-5s whichever.
Could even up the heal to just shift the direction elsewhere.

in that case it would overlap with blinding powder.

Unless they make you refull while being in the refuge, in that case it would be OP.

It could pulse and remove conditions while healing substantially, but in that case it would just make S/D more OP.

The point is that there’s really no way to change it without making it overlapping with blinding powder or without making the skill OP for other builds: a pulsing AoE condi cleanse can be good for a D/P burst build but would just make S/D thieves even stronger than they atually are.

My idea would be to remove smoke screen too ( we all know it’s bad) and make shadow refuge something like a big AoE pulsing blind field absorbing projectiles ( if it’s not powrful enough you can buff it by removing boons or adding cripple).

We would gain a powerful skill ( an AoE fiedl pulsing blind of the same size of shadow refuge would be MASSIVE, especially if it will pulse 1 blind per sec) without being OP and we would also gain a free slot for a deception skill.

Problem solved.

Again, if we want stealth, blinding powder is over there: it’s also somehow better, being istant and allowing for insta stealth attacks.

JonathanSharp.7094:

This thread is actually helpful to us.

When you guys list a small, concise list of things that need to be addressed, we normally DO take those lists and run down them as a balance team.

So thanks for that.

Also thanks for being constructive about this stuff, it’s very impressive when you guys reason together for the good of the game, rather than arguing (which can happen on any forums, about any topic).

Most impressive!!! Thanks all!

lol

Jonathan, in your preview post the only thing you hint at getting a nerf (that is used a lot in the current meta) is thief sword 3, by reducing the boon stealing. Is this the only thing which will be toned down? No changes to condi spam, stun spam, warrior regen etc?

Can you give us some insight on what you guys think is too strong in the current meta?

Lordrosicky.5813:

1, Berserker stance – Nothing should give immunity to entire types of classes. no counter play. Very lame. Just make it 90% reduction in condition duration then at least necros can interrupt them

2, Automated response – see above. Losing to someone who is just 100x worse than you just because of a trait they take it total BS. How is this still in the game?

3, Warrior stuns – insane. You literally get knocked around like a ping pong ball by the warrior then die. Interrupt them you say! No you cant. Because they are immune to anything I do (lol)

4, Sword thief evades – way too many evades, teleports, etc on this weapon set

5, Thief feline grace trait – seriously wtf. They get to dodge for less. Anet need to realise dodging and evades = invulnerable. Invulnerable is good in pvp. Seriously.

6, Vigor – most op boon ever. Way more dodges = more invuln = never die = lame. You need to balance this boon. By reducing the amount of vigor gained by certain classes.

7 , Runes of lyssa – seriously wtf is this. Its so OP. Why do you think 50% of people in any game run these. People use elites purely for this rune set. Shows how insane it is.

8, Sigil of energy – dodging is OP. Anet really need to get this or this game will fail.

9, Nature of renewal. So broken and frustrating. Gives you massive advantage in team fight. No counter play as killing it resses anyway. Massive HP. Massive healing. Full condi cleanses. It is just way too good.

10, Ele burst – too high, should be brought down. Promotes macroing and even more cheese. Solution to making ele viable isnt to give it cheese.

11, Signet of spite – why make something so lame as this? it takes no skill to just random land a signet of spite then fear someone = death. I lose to so many bad necros who run this or signet or plague. Enough. Nerf signet of spite durations or increase the cooldown.

12, healing spring – too strong

13, Elixr R – people shouldnt be able to res themselves – come on.

14, Lag – fixing lag matters. Lag is Op in this game. Most the games I lose is because I get dced for 2 mins start of every match. Winning from 3 cap and 100-0 down isnt easy.

15, Emphatic bond – passive condi removal is lame. End of.

16, Healing turret – cast time too short. Cant be interrupted.

17, Healing signet – cant be interrupted so where is the counter play?

18, Shadows refuge – cooldown too short.

19, Stand your ground – get too much for this. Increase the cd.

20, Burning – burning is OP. Nerf it by 25%

21, Asuras – too small. Cant see them for kitten. Lame and should be nerfed/banned

There are 21 things to fix. Get to work on these and people will be happy.

Balance devs, do us all a favour and print this off and put the “To-do list” at the top and then stick it on your wall

1) Is this intentional though? I thought the skill was supposed to reduce condi duration by 100% not proc immunity. Bug? But yeah 90% would be better.

2) Should be closer to Berserker stance and lower condi duration, not total immunity. Total immunity should not exist at all, other than short duration invuls.

3) Stun meta is silly, why was this buffed to much in the first place…

4/5) Agreed, no comment.

6) Vigor is fine.

7) Isn’t that more a counter to the condi meta though? Also isn’t the problem more with classes who have such low cooldown elites like war and thief? Add a longer CD to these (also fix the condi duration bug).

10) Burst shouldn’t be untelegraphed, though the same could almost apply for theif backstab… we are just so used to it people know how to counter it.

15) What is up with this ‘lets make our pets take punishment for us’ concept. They are supposed to be your friends you care for, yet it’s “I don’t feel like burning and being poisoned today, here you do it”. Aside from that, 3 condi’s is pretty high, maybe less…

17) This is crazy. It has far higher base numbers than any of the other healing signets (Restoration, Malice etc) without needing any thought. It heals higher than most active heals. Poison offers little counterplay unless you can keep up perma poison. Can’t be interupted. Wtf mate. Reduce to 300-320 a second, and don’t make this PVP only – this thing is crazy op in wvw, sentinal gear + exumberance runes + ice cream = outank multiple arrow carts. gg balance team.

18) Potentially tone down the duration of the stealth, this is huge atm for such a short CD, plus the healing it offers.

20) Burning damage is ok, the random procs from crits are not. Make this more for controlled and timed burst, not just additional random dps.

On a side note, please stop with this ‘pvp only’ changes you guys keep making. Make some of this stuff pvp and wvw, going from pvp to wvw then realising the things that were toned down in one player vs player environment are suddenly op in another player vs player environment is frustrating.

Mrbig.8019

The game has been flat out too much, there’s actually a very small difference between a “pro” and an “above average” or even “average” player.

This is unconfutable.

There is so much truth in this phrase, that I don’t even know how to highlight it enough!
This is the true issue with the spvp (and wvw to some extent) in this game.

Everything can be copied and reproduced to obtain same results, making any imbalance frustrating at any level of play (from hot-joins to tournaments) .

Eles have too much damage? what

FrownyClown.8402:

Eles have too much damage? what

Ele instant burst is too strong and doesn’t really have a tell (earthquake—>LF—>earth 2—>air attune—>air 2—>double arcane—>RtL—>updraft—>phoenix if needed) can almost insta-gib someone, and that is not good for the game. Skills like scepter 2 are very boring to play with, and ele burst is really just about spamming as many instant skills as possible. Its almost like just playing a fps: instant kill or be instant-killed. It doesn’t really feel good/fun either way.

I think Arcanes should either be more powerful with a short delay (like the ele glows pink then BLAMs) or a lot weaker and shorter CD (basically just spammable blast/projectile finishers) even though that is still kinda boring.

While it really is one of the only things keeping eles viable currently, its not good for the game. Take that away and give eles a little more damage on their auto-attacks and a little easier access to their key survival skills (so they aren’t just magic thieves). Even upping the condi clear on something like dagger 5 in water would be justified. Finally, make the base recharge rate lower and reduce arcana effectiveness by 1/2.

If the 15-point air skill is still too strong b/c it is instant, make it like staff 1 and engie static-discharge. Slow projectile but with the chance to bounce is a pretty fair trade, and makes it dodge-able. Everybody wins.

P.S. I play ele and even recognize that, while they need some fixes, they also need to shave the lame-o burst potential some to be able to give us those important survivability fixes.

wow, just wooow, this guy really needs to get a break.

protip: blind>>>>>>>>>>>stuns.
Just get away a bit when they use berserker stance.

I don’t agree with the vigor/dodges being OP.

Lordrosicky.5813:

3, Warrior stuns – insane. You literally get knocked around like a ping pong ball by the warrior then die. Interrupt them you say! No you cant. Because they are immune to anything I do (lol)

this is working as intended.
use stability, stun breakers.

6, Vigor – most op boon ever. Way more dodges = more invuln = never die = lame. You need to balance this boon. By reducing the amount of vigor gained by certain classes.

working as intended. feign your attacks and land your powderful attacks when they finish dodging.

17, Healing signet – cant be interrupted so where is the counter play?

poison, bleeding, burning.

20, Burning – burning is OP. Nerf it by 25%

not powderful enough. needs to stack in intensity.

Lordrosicky.5813:

1, Berserker stance – Nothing should give immunity to entire types of classes. no counter play. Very lame. Just make it 90% reduction in condition duration then at least necros can interrupt them

2, Automated response – see above. Losing to someone who is just 100x worse than you just because of a trait they take it total BS. How is this still in the game?

3, Warrior stuns – insane. You literally get knocked around like a ping pong ball by the warrior then die. Interrupt them you say! No you cant. Because they are immune to anything I do (lol)

4, Sword thief evades – way too many evades, teleports, etc on this weapon set

5, Thief feline grace trait – seriously wtf. They get to dodge for less. Anet need to realise dodging and evades = invulnerable. Invulnerable is good in pvp. Seriously.

6, Vigor – most op boon ever. Way more dodges = more invuln = never die = lame. You need to balance this boon. By reducing the amount of vigor gained by certain classes.

7 , Runes of lyssa – seriously wtf is this. Its so OP. Why do you think 50% of people in any game run these. People use elites purely for this rune set. Shows how insane it is.

8, Sigil of energy – dodging is OP. Anet really need to get this or this game will fail.

9, Nature of renewal. So broken and frustrating. Gives you massive advantage in team fight. No counter play as killing it resses anyway. Massive HP. Massive healing. Full condi cleanses. It is just way too good.

10, Ele burst – too high, should be brought down. Promotes macroing and even more cheese. Solution to making ele viable isnt to give it cheese.

11, Signet of spite – why make something so lame as this? it takes no skill to just random land a signet of spite then fear someone = death. I lose to so many bad necros who run this or signet or plague. Enough. Nerf signet of spite durations or increase the cooldown.

12, healing spring – too strong

13, Elixr R – people shouldnt be able to res themselves – come on.

14, Lag – fixing lag matters. Lag is Op in this game. Most the games I lose is because I get dced for 2 mins start of every match. Winning from 3 cap and 100-0 down isnt easy.

15, Emphatic bond – passive condi removal is lame. End of.

16, Healing turret – cast time too short. Cant be interrupted.

17, Healing signet – cant be interrupted so where is the counter play?

18, Shadows refuge – cooldown too short.

19, Stand your ground – get too much for this. Increase the cd.

20, Burning – burning is OP. Nerf it by 25%

21, Asuras – too small. Cant see them for kitten. Lame and should be nerfed/banned

There are 21 things to fix. Get to work on these and people will be happy.

Balance devs, do us all a favour and print this off and put the “To-do list” at the top and then stick it on your wall

So basically you want to nerf every class except for necros. Are you serious? Necros are the OP class at the moment.

FrownyClown.8402:

Eles have too much damage? what

Eles do NOT have too much damage. They have too much healing.

style.6173:

FrownyClown.8402:

Eles have too much damage? what

Eles do NOT have too much damage. They have too much healing.

I think it depends on the build.

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

1) Is this intentional though? I thought the skill was supposed to reduce condi duration by 100% not proc immunity. Bug? But yeah 90% would be better.

It’s a bug. Just check the dev posts from around when the change was made. There was an example of how it was supposed to work out. At the base it is -100% duration but if the attacker has any +condition duration it would be subtracted out of that. So if someone with +10% condition duration was applying the condition it is supposed to end up as -90% condition duration.

Khisanth.2948:

Asuka Shikinami.5462:

1) Is this intentional though? I thought the skill was supposed to reduce condi duration by 100% not proc immunity. Bug? But yeah 90% would be better.

It’s a bug. Just check the dev posts from around when the change was made. There was an example of how it was supposed to work out. At the base it is -100% duration but if the attacker has any +condition duration it would be subtracted out of that. So if someone with +10% condition duration was applying the condition it is supposed to end up as -90% condition duration.

The problem is, most conditions can ONLY be a second. Even if you reduced a bleed or a poison by 99%, that 1% will still be 1 second. Making the skill almost worthless. Most skills that we hate most are ones that just spam 1 second of something, like blind or cripple. We will still be blinded constantly in a smoke field for 1 second even if we reduce it by 99%.

I have to leave a comment on this post. Hands down to the OP for these kitten suggestions.

Best nerf post suggestions I have heard for months. So to summarize you want dodge to be limited because its so OP, Condition reductions/ removals to be nerf.

A solid player can reapply condition like its no ones business nowadays, condition is the meta these days and you want some of these classes’ condition removal to be nerf?

JonathanSharp.7094:

This thread is actually helpful to us.

When you guys list a small, concise list of things that need to be addressed, we normally DO take those lists and run down them as a balance team.

So thanks for that.

Also thanks for being constructive about this stuff, it’s very impressive when you guys reason together for the good of the game, rather than arguing (which can happen on any forums, about any topic).

Most impressive!!! Thanks all!

Well I’m just saying this now. If engies get stupid nerf or trait changes thanks to this I will spam this forum every week with list of balance changes from an engie perspective until everything is brought down to what I want just like how this thread reappears every week >.>

I thought that this topic is about things that need to be fixed, not because you are lame and can’t play against it, but because they are op… Seriously… do you think that you are better than anyone if you write “l2p” to everything? Do you think that we can’t play against certain classes? Why should be warrior immuned to conditions while any other class is not?

Btw I agree with everything except for 8, 9, 10, 14 and 18.

1. Using abilities while flag planting someone, I can say understand signets but throwing down a blind field or whatever it is while your in their air in mid motion doesn’t make sense.

2. Blind effecting the downed player but not the person flag planting them, it should go both ways. I don’t really care which but I think that making blind stop flag planting would just make it stupid hard to finish people.

1, Berserker stance – Nothing should give immunity to entire types of classes. no counter play. Very lame. Just make it 90% reduction in condition duration then at least necros can interrupt them
The problem is, most conditions can ONLY be a second. Even if you reduced a bleed or a poison by 99%, that 1% will still be 1 second. Making the skill almost worthless. Most skills that we hate most are ones that just spam 1 second of something, like blind or cripple. We will still be blinded constantly in a smoke field for 1 second even if we reduce it by 99%.

You are effectively making the entire skill useless when you do this.

2, Automated response – see above. Losing to someone who is just 100x worse than you just because of a trait they take it total BS. How is this still in the game?
It needs to be 8 seconds only.

3, Warrior stuns – insane. You literally get knocked around like a ping pong ball by the warrior then die. Interrupt them you say! No you cant. Because they are immune to anything I do (lol)
Getting Nerfed already

4, Sword thief evades – way too many evades, teleports, etc on this weapon set
Its fine.

5, Thief feline grace trait – seriously wtf. They get to dodge for less. Anet need to realise dodging and evades = invulnerable. Invulnerable is good in pvp. Seriously.
Its fine, not many people even run it.

6, Vigor – most op boon ever. Way more dodges = more invuln = never die = lame. You need to balance this boon. By reducing the amount of vigor gained by certain classes.
Sounds fair.

7 , Runes of lyssa – seriously wtf is this. Its so OP. Why do you think 50% of people in any game run these. People use elites purely for this rune set. Shows how insane it is.
No.

8, Sigil of energy – dodging is OP. Anet really need to get this or this game will fail.
Other sigils need brought up to par.

9, Nature of renewal. So broken and frustrating. Gives you massive advantage in team fight. No counter play as killing it resses anyway. Massive HP. Massive healing. Full condi cleanses. It is just way too good.
Advantages are fun

10, Ele burst – too high, should be brought down. Promotes macroing and even more cheese. Solution to making ele viable isnt to give it cheese.
Eles need something.

11, Signet of spite – why make something so lame as this? it takes no skill to just random land a signet of spite then fear someone = death. I lose to so many bad necros who run this or signet or plague. Enough. Nerf signet of spite durations or increase the cooldown.
Lower the cool-down, but give it a 2 second cast time and its own animation.

12, healing spring – too strong
Getting Nerfed already

13, Elixr R – people shouldnt be able to res themselves – come on.
?

14, Lag – fixing lag matters. Lag is Op in this game. Most the games I lose is because I get dced for 2 mins start of every match. Winning from 3 cap and 100-0 down isnt easy.
Lag is overpowered

15, Emphatic bond – passive condi removal is lame. End of.
Then nerf every other classes passive condition removal, like Guardians Purity.

16, Healing turret – cast time too short. Cant be interrupted.
Its a Turret.

17, Healing signet – cant be interrupted so where is the counter play?
Counter play is poison and other conditions.

18, Shadows refuge – cooldown too short.
They lowered its CD a bit ago

19, Stand your ground – get too much for this. Increase the cd.
Guardian Nerfs?

20, Burning – burning is OP. Nerf it by 25%
Allow burning to stack like bleeding.

21, Asuras – too small. Cant see them for kitten. Lame and should be nerfed/banned
Agree

Penguin.5197:

JonathanSharp.7094:

This thread is actually helpful to us.

When you guys list a small, concise list of things that need to be addressed, we normally DO take those lists and run down them as a balance team.

So thanks for that.

Also thanks for being constructive about this stuff, it’s very impressive when you guys reason together for the good of the game, rather than arguing (which can happen on any forums, about any topic).

Most impressive!!! Thanks all!

Well I’m just saying this now. If engies get stupid nerf or trait changes thanks to this I will spam this forum every week with list of balance changes from an engie perspective until everything is brought down to what I want just like how this thread reappears every week >.>

With how slow changes come… if they just started considering the stuff in this thread… it’ll be about November, of the year after next, before any of it comes around.

I’d like to add the following:

• Party frames not differentiating between Death Shroud and HP pools (give us a different color? or something that tells us he’s not going to die soon).
• Pet Condition Bar
• Downed Condition bar (Advantageous for timing blind pulses)
• Fully Controllable Pets (With the option for auto cast to not overwhelm seasoned Rangers)
• Lingering Projectile Destruction effects (Guardian is pretty much the only offender w/ its knockback on rez and shield knockback)
• Change Rez Immunity + Downed Immunity to “Take No Damage” (effect of endure pain) to allow for early condi stacking and condition pressure on downed bodies as conditions take some time to get rolling.
• Downed State inequality, a little bit of inequality is fine but certain abilities in downed state can guarantee your survival (Ele, Thief, mesmer) with a single rez utility on your team.
• More active condition removal for ranger (Perhaps a trait lower in the trait line, or new abilities placed in a different line to allow for more build diversity (maybe something in the marksman tree)

Response:

9, Nature of renewal. So broken and frustrating. Gives you massive advantage in team fight. No counter play as killing it resses anyway. Massive HP. Massive healing. Full condi cleanses. It is just way too good.
There is counterplay, it does not have stability and its rez can be interupted via stun, daze, fear, knockback etc. It can also be focus’d and killed very easily.

15, Emphatic bond – passive condi removal is lame. End of.
Why not throw out Cleansing Ire(20 pt trait) which can happen every 5 seconds removing equivalent conditions and controlled by the player (ie use it when important). Empathic is twice the CD, easiy to counterplay as it is on a schedule, and is 30 points into a condition line

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

fatback.7436:

I don’t ussaually post in these forums but you make me lawl so hard that I took off on my lolerskates I’m only gonna slap a couple of your points down

@2 if you can’t kill an engy at 25% health u need to learn to manage CDs

@11 sig of spite shows a big yellow circle above necro head before goes off l2 dodge

@18 learn to aoe

@14 buy better connect or get off of your neighbors wifi

Your lack of knowledge is frightening.
2: Passive traits that carry a player and totally negate a source of damage is absurd. @11: You really are able to dodge this spell with all that clutter? I don't know anyone who can do this. @18: Mass Invis is still a mechanic that shouldn't exist in any serious PvP environment. There is absolutely no counter to it, if it's placed well enough. *14: Everyone allrdy knows that the servers of arena-net/nc-soft whatever, are pretty bad and produce after every patch heavy lags.*

I have my own, dedicated, internet (which I personally pay for). I have my router and firewalls optimized for Guild Wars 2. My IP takes priority over all other IPs and GW2 takes priority over all download protocols. I hardly, if ever, have lag.

1. is 100% and entirely your problem. Don’t put your own lack of decent internet on Arena.net.

Not going to comment on the balance issues, I’m not experienced enough for that. But the internet thing I had to respond to.

1. OP’s post tl;dr : I’m playing necro : each counter to my AoE condition spam is broken, please fix it.

2. Jon’s answer to the thread : Great feedback, give us more !

3. My face :

marnick.4305:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

fatback.7436:

I don’t ussaually post in these forums but you make me lawl so hard that I took off on my lolerskates I’m only gonna slap a couple of your points down

@2 if you can’t kill an engy at 25% health u need to learn to manage CDs

@11 sig of spite shows a big yellow circle above necro head before goes off l2 dodge

@18 learn to aoe

@14 buy better connect or get off of your neighbors wifi

Your lack of knowledge is frightening.
2: Passive traits that carry a player and totally negate a source of damage is absurd. @11: You really are able to dodge this spell with all that clutter? I don't know anyone who can do this. @18: Mass Invis is still a mechanic that shouldn't exist in any serious PvP environment. There is absolutely no counter to it, if it's placed well enough. *14: Everyone allrdy knows that the servers of arena-net/nc-soft whatever, are pretty bad and produce after every patch heavy lags.*

I have my own, dedicated, internet (which I personally pay for). I have my router and firewalls optimized for Guild Wars 2. My IP takes priority over all other IPs and GW2 takes priority over all download protocols. I hardly, if ever, have lag.

1. is 100% and entirely your problem. Don’t put your own lack of decent internet on Arena.net.

Not going to comment on the balance issues, I’m not experienced enough for that. But the internet thing I had to respond to.

Pst its actually not. The lag currently is caused by their servers or possibly the new wvw map not being coded right. You will at times get extremely bad lag spikes for no reason. About 95% of the player base is experiencing this.

OP good post made me laugh Soo much , it seems a lot of your whine is because youre a bad mesmer/guardian ? lol , basically asking to nerf 6 other classes . / Golf Clap

Keep up the good work

Hi everyone,

Since this thread doens’t offer a constructive debate, we’ll now close it. Please keep in mind that we do accept all kind of feedback (either positive or negative ones) but they have to be written in a constructive way.

Thank you for your understanding.