Guild Wars 2

Is this something normal?

[IMG]http://i46.tinypic.com/20p63m.png[/IMG]

In my opinion that someone kills you not because he is good, but because he saw you when you didn’t saw him first and then he first attacks and you are dead. Man this is totly fair.
Thx you I’m loving it. Sarcazem bdw.

Sorry AOE is on the top of ANets list of things to fix. Even though the complaints about this greatly out number any other complaint in game. I really wish they would do something here.

Well, just have a lok at my screenshot I’m a Warrior, why am I, as one of the “tankiest” classes of the game, taking that much damage?

Please keep these coming. I don’t hate on thieves much but I agree here something must be done. And I guess we haven’t generated enough grief as of yet to warrant a change. I hope that this can grab someone’s attention because there comes a point when it isn’t L2P if you don’t even know the person is there to start with.

yeah, d/d backstab damage is a huge issue for the casual (and even the lower spectrum of the competitive) population as there is no real way to counter-play it. A 20-30% nerf for backstab when weilding dagger offhand would seem appropriate, since d/p backstab is much more predictable (have to drop black powder then heartseeker through it) and allows options for counter-play. d/d is just way to fast when you can pre-cast cloak and dagger into steal.

Atlest Aoe will be fixed..
Anyway 14k to a warrior xD wtf? Did the theif had like 20 might or something.
Your screen is definetly something that shoudn’t happen.

Vatras.2806:

Well, just have a lok at my screenshot I’m a Warrior, why am I, as one of the “tankiest” classes of the game, taking that much damage?

Is this pic recent? I thought 15k backstabs weren’t possible anymore. I know they use to be the norm , but then they nerfed the sig so it does 15% for 5 attacks instead of 50% for 1.

AoE was never high up on anyones complaints really. Except for those that were already squishy but that is their fault for being squishy

About AOE. At first look it dosn’t look like a problem.
But after few months that you play, you see that AOE decides a lot of times who gonna win and who’s gonna lose in team fights. Even 1 on 1. If you don’t have always 1 anti cond utility you are dead agains necros or eles with no questions.

Ahh… I guess I can see that… But I hope you would agree that the insane thief damage should be higher up. And I am not defending ANets design of necros or ele’s but as order of importance and causing player problems I would think the thief is higher than the AOE.

Yiyojin.3241:

Atlest Aoe will be fixed..
Anyway 14k to a warrior xD wtf? Did the theif had like 20 might or something.
Your screen is definetly something that shoudn’t happen.

pretty sure the warrior had Frenzy up = extra invitation for every thief

I don’t really know what to tell you. I don’t know what is more urrgent. Anyway I think it will both comes in the same update. ^^

Xeron.3745 oohh stupid me, obiusly.

Actually a thief to deal that kind of dmg he must be really squishy, he can easily receive back that kind of dmg.

1) Quickness shortbow ranger
2) Shatter mesmer
3) 100b warrior
4) Necro staff spammer
6) GS guardian
7) Etc etc….

Take your pick, in this game every profession can reach those numbers, people simply need to stop playing with a pair of goggles.
I can play with 976 toughness on my ele and never receive that kind of dmg from a thief, sure I still get for 5-6k HS and 7k backstab..but nothing like 14k in one hit, I’m sure the OP had frenzy up or possibly the thief had might stacks thx to the close ele

Vatras.2806:

Well, just have a lok at my screenshot I’m a Warrior, why am I, as one of the “tankiest” classes of the game, taking that much damage?

Because warriors are hardly “tanky”. They lack survivability when compared to just about every other class. There is a reason you don’t see warrior bunkers, because it does not work.

Vatras.2806:

Well, just have a lok at my screenshot I’m a Warrior, why am I, as one of the “tankiest” classes of the game, taking that much damage?

Because when you play a Warrior, you’re no Tank. You’re supposed to be a “carry.”

Warrior is simply not a class for new players in a sense that the role “carry” just doesn’t work with new players. Warrior has the same problem with some characters from DOTA, mostly the lack of guide on trading hits and sustaining.

2 things you can do.

1.) Keep playing and learn new things.
2.) Just play a new class.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Because when you play a Warrior, you’re no Tank. You’re supposed to be a “carry.”

Being carried is crap.
Designing a class to be carried by other classes is also crap.

Braxxus.2904:

Schwahrheit.4203:

Because when you play a Warrior, you’re no Tank. You’re supposed to be a “carry.”

“Being carried is crap.”

Can’t always blame the class because you can’t carry or you don’t know how to carry with it though. Like I said, Warrior isn’t a character for new players. So maybe rethink what I just said and look back to yourself.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Can’t always blame the class because you can’t carry or you don’t know how to carry with it though.

We’re going to always disagree on this. Being carried, and being designed to be carried is crap. Both in game and IRL. Everyone and every class should stand on their own without being carried. But I suppose some people just really like the idea of riding along the welfare line while other people do the work.

Yiyojin.3241:

Atlest Aoe will be fixed..
Anyway 14k to a warrior xD wtf? Did the theif had like 20 might or something.
Your screen is definetly something that shoudn’t happen.

Waffler.1257:

Vatras.2806:

Well, just have a lok at my screenshot I’m a Warrior, why am I, as one of the “tankiest” classes of the game, taking that much damage?

Is this pic recent? I thought 15k backstabs weren’t possible anymore. I know they use to be the norm , but then they nerfed the sig so it does 15% for 5 attacks instead of 50% for 1.

I’m not defending Thief burst, but let’s be real here. This screenshot came from a Warrior and he probably died during Frenzy.

Again, I’m not defending Thieves but exaggerating does not help an argument that they need to be nerfed.

Make thieves have a debuff in hotjoin. Keep them the same for tpvp, because they are weak there.

This would solve 99% of complainers.

That sucks :/ I thought they were making PvP so that battles can stretch a while and it isn’t about 1 hitting a player?

QQing about a thief when there are a lot more classes that can get higher burst. Really? Maybe you should not be a glass cannon yourself.

Arheundel.6451:

Actually a thief to deal that kind of dmg he must be really squishy, he can easily receive back that kind of dmg.

1) Quickness shortbow ranger
2) Shatter mesmer
3) 100b warrior
4) Necro staff spammer
6) GS guardian
7) Etc etc….

Take your pick, in this game every profession can reach those numbers, people simply need to stop playing with a pair of goggles.
I can play with 976 toughness on my ele and never receive that kind of dmg from a thief, sure I still get for 5-6k HS and 7k backstab..but nothing like 14k in one hit, I’m sure the OP had frenzy up or possibly the thief had might stacks thx to the close ele

Uhm .. what?
Qickness-ranger can do a lot of damage … but what viable tpvp-build would do it?
Shatter-mesmer can do it every 10-15 sec with a setup .. but yeah, and yes it is not that easy to avoid.
100b-warrior definitely can do it.
Necro staff-spammer can do 10-14k damage in one blow??? I want to know that build, or smoke what you are smoking.
GS-guardians can hardly do that sort of damage, but I really haven’t been that observant in that regard … maybe because I never saw it
The thing is … it is a very common build that does this with a bare minimum setup … even repeatable. And it is the to-go build in tpvp that does this … it is not some inferior 1-trick-pony-build, which you are perfectly aware of

Crying about GC thief killing another GC in 2 hits……. How interesting.
I do agree with you that the burst builds are way to high and the PvP is simply not fun anymore. I like the long and intensive fights that actually make your gameplay fun and enjoyable. Instead of getting killed by a burst build in 2 secs, where is the fun in that!? The burst capability in this game seriously needs a revamp or BIG changes.

Klinch.2964:

Make thieves have a debuff in hotjoin. Keep them the same for tpvp, because they are weak there.

This would solve 99% of complainers.

Define weak. Even the best players doesn’t enjoy being insta-gibbed from 75-0% in tournaments. It should never have a place in the game. I am all for buffing certain areas of thieves thus making them more appealing for tpvp btw.

Poxxia.1547:

Klinch.2964:

Make thieves have a debuff in hotjoin. Keep them the same for tpvp, because they are weak there.

This would solve 99% of complainers.

Define weak. Even the best players doesn’t enjoy being insta-gibbed from 75-0% in tournaments. It should never have a place in the game. I am all for buffing certain areas of thieves thus making them more appealing for tpvp btw.

Good players try to keep track of where the whole enemy team is at all times. Thieves don’t get that surprise attack off as much. Team suppression poops on thieves instantly. If the thief manages to some how hit and get a player down, teamwork will get that person right back up and then thief is useless for 30-40 seconds or he dies.

So if teamwork doesn’t stop the thief (which is not hard to do), the down system helps stop instagibs (which I find awesome )

Arsenic.8259:

QQing about a thief when there are a lot more classes that can get higher burst. Really? Maybe you should not be a glass cannon yourself.

Alot more? Ummm the only ones I can think of is 100B warrior… mesmer has a strong shatter but that is about it and it isn’t even close to as damaging as a thieves insta-gib combo.

They shouldn’t let Mug crit.

The thief dies as fast as he can burst… I don’t get why a thief is OP? In every tournament at the point he jump in for his burst he dies. If ppl are too slow to react on that burst he will be down when he reaches the point where he can’t go invis.
The second point is that a thief is a weak 1v1 class. When he misses the burst (and good players always can avoid this dmg) then he has to leave fight or he drops.

I think in the sPvP the thief is OP…cuz in zergs you won’t pay attention to his burst. Personally I would reduce the dmg of some skillz like bs, steal, cnd. Mabye – 10%.

@Klinch: First off, SR can really give you an advantage in covering up where you go .. which I suppose you are aware off. I recall even the best thieves saying this. But whatever .. in principle I agree with you: Good teams knows the names of everyone, the pattern-movement of everyone, can anticipate what comes next and are only susceptible to kryptonite … in other words: If you say they can anticipate everything you haven’t really said that much. Of course they track things more organized, but their reaction-time is still finite.

Apart from that: I am all for burst, but not as much as it is now … it feels inevitable as it is now, and frankly mindless.

Even with teamwork, the best teams gibbed. Watch the full fights and see how often it happens (or listen to it, since it is communicated). Are you in all seriousness saying, that thieves are only good when they have Steal up? It isn’t what I am seeing, when I study the art of jumper and lowell, to name a few. Going from 60/50-0% in a splitsecond instead of 75-0% is still pretty horrible. Thieves mobility paired with their escape-options and burst … they can make a 1vs1 to a 2vs1 (or 2vs2 to 3vs2) very fast and just get out to outnumber another counter. Mobility is a huge thing if you ask me, and escaping more so. There really isn’t much room for teamwork if a 2vs2 turned into a 3vs2 with one downed .. then you can teamwork with yourself trying to ress that buddy of yours while 2 are pounding on you, since the thief is now elsewhere.
Yes, they can’t stand the heat from AoE for long … but imagine AoE being toned down – which it should. I believe (know) a couple of the best thieves have said there is an issue quite openly. Some of the better players are very focused on real balance and the future of the game and are not afraid of having their toy ruined.
And as a last comment: Hasted stealthed stomps says hello

If you look at the setups for tournaments you will find atleast a guard in mid, the ele on your close and the mesmer on far.
Guard and ele should be clear what happen… And the mesmer you will face a 2v2 should be the opponent’s thief who will support their mesmer.
You see the point? Since the bunker-meta you won’t outnumber that fast cuz a bunker is meant to be outnumbered

Quite a few people in this thread have been completely outskilled by talented thieves, I think all we are missing is a screenshot of someone being killed by 17 hits of heartseeker. I honestly think the main problems with thief is that some of their strongest traits are tier 1 abilities, so they rarely have to choose between good traits. Something that should be looked at to at least make the class more balanced is to rework the trait for condition removal on stealth so that it does the ability after 3 seconds in stealth instead of once when you enter stealth and then again 3 seconds later. At least this way thieves will be forced to make decisions on if they should backstab as quickly as possible or wait and get the condi removal. (it would also make the trait to increase stealth time much stronger)

Taym.8326:

Quite a few people in this thread have been completely outskilled by talented thieves, I think all we are missing is a screenshot of someone being killed by 17 hits of heartseeker. I honestly think the main problems with thief is that some of their strongest traits are tier 1 abilities, so they rarely have to choose between good traits. Something that should be looked at to at least make the class more balanced is to rework the trait for condition removal on stealth so that it does the ability after 3 seconds in stealth instead of once when you enter stealth and then again 3 seconds later. At least this way thieves will be forced to make decisions on if they should backstab as quickly as possible or wait and get the condi removal. (it would also make the trait to increase stealth time much stronger)

Taym, your comments do nothing but further cloud the reality of a thief. Please realize that the stealth condition removal trait is in the shadow arts (toughness) line. A GC thief that produces the screenshots above (which do not occur on a non-frenzied paper class) occur only due to being completely specced GLASS CANON with ZERO points in the shadow arts line. I had to respond to this because your entire argument is a contradiction. YOu note that thiefs don’t have to make choices because their traits are so easy to obtain…and then you highlight a trait that requires a tough choice to take… are you going to be GC to apply burst pressure… or shadow arts and something entirely different.

Nerf the thief backstab all you want. Go ahead, thieves in tpvp are already not a main composition priority and when you take away the ONLY thing they are currently brought to high end tpvp to do.. you will see no thieves. Seriously, let’s all just get it over with and play ele’s and guardians already.

Ban the thieves out off SPvP. Problem solved

mursie.3681:

Taym.8326:

Quite a few people in this thread have been completely outskilled by talented thieves, I think all we are missing is a screenshot of someone being killed by 17 hits of heartseeker. I honestly think the main problems with thief is that some of their strongest traits are tier 1 abilities, so they rarely have to choose between good traits. Something that should be looked at to at least make the class more balanced is to rework the trait for condition removal on stealth so that it does the ability after 3 seconds in stealth instead of once when you enter stealth and then again 3 seconds later. At least this way thieves will be forced to make decisions on if they should backstab as quickly as possible or wait and get the condi removal. (it would also make the trait to increase stealth time much stronger)

Taym, your comments do nothing but further cloud the reality of a thief. Please realize that the stealth condition removal trait is in the shadow arts (toughness) line. A GC thief that produces the screenshots above (which do not occur on a non-frenzied paper class) occur only due to being completely specced GLASS CANON with ZERO points in the shadow arts line. I had to respond to this because your entire argument is a contradiction. YOu note that thiefs don’t have to make choices because their traits are so easy to obtain…and then you highlight a trait that requires a tough choice to take… are you going to be GC to apply burst pressure… or shadow arts and something entirely different.

Nerf the thief backstab all you want. Go ahead, thieves in tpvp are already not a main composition priority and when you take away the ONLY thing they are currently brought to high end tpvp to do.. you will see no thieves. Seriously, let’s all just get it over with and play ele’s and guardians already.

I think you need some reading comprehension skills, the only place in which I refer to a “GC Thief” are my comments about how amazingly talented the players are to pull off those feats because of how completely unviable the build is. Secondly the comment I was trying to make was that quite a few of the thief tier 1 traits are too powerful allowing them to spec rather flexibly. I did not say “this trait is GC thief OP”, if I wanted to do that I could have just gone with mug but honestly how many times do we want to hash that one out.

Sidenote: 10 points into toughness means it cannot be glass cannon because it has 1k toughness instead of 916! And yes before you start going crazy, I am aware this talent is used mainly by attrition thieves.

I’m sorry what was this thread about again?

And your reasoning for why this thread was created is because…" I honestly think the main problems with thief is that some of their strongest traits are tier 1 abilities, so they rarely have to choose between good traits. "

And your trait that you feel is so strong for backstab thiefs was what? … “Something that should be looked at to at least make the class more balanced is to rework the trait for condition removal on stealth”

so in summary: Thread is about glass cannon instagib insane number backstab thieves.

You think thieves are strong because their t1 traits are so strong and they dont have to choose between them. Specifically the t1 condition removal trait.

Problem with argument – the trait you identify is not used by the thieves producing the numbers that conceived the thread.

Comprehend that.. Bottom Line: If the trait you identify was changed… hell if it was freaking removed from the game… it would do absolutely NOTHING to change the entire purpose of this thread. Because it has ZERO impact on why instagib thiefs are instagibbing.

Hey, Yiyojin.3241

As we have a thread for concentrating thief feedback in order to make it easier to forward your opinions, we decided to close this thread.

The thread I’m talking about can be found here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-thief-and-its-gameplay-Your-feedback/

Thanks for your understanding.