Losing pips is horrible
if good players = party, then yes they can reach division 6 easier.
if a good player goes solo, he will have a hard time reaching division 6, because he has to fight against his mmr already at amber ranks….
nice system anet
The whole league system is a catastrophe. Guess I will stay in emerald league as someone who does not have a fixed PvP team (or guild).
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
@Op
Not sure if serious.
Pips = rank points, people will be shown on Leaderboards based on how many pips they have, yet you want to remove ability to lose rank points in ranked?
There are many things in Leagues to change, but not this one.
Yes
when you lost fairly it is not fun but when youy lost it because you are teamed whith people who just throw the match, well it is kind of unfair
being teamed with four persons of the same guild makes me wary now
If anyone didnt understand why Leagues is the strange cobbled together product we got, this thread OP is everything you need to know.
You have to please the reward grinders (same reason we have Match Flopping now) at the same time as the people who want to actually sPvP and get better. ANet is in a really hard spot because of the Ultra-Casual community they have built in the PvE side of this game.
If anyone didnt understand why Leagues is the strange cobbled together product we got, this thread OP is everything you need to know.
You have to please the reward grinders (same reason we have Match Flopping now) at the same time as the people who want to actually sPvP and get better. ANet is in a really hard spot because of the Ultra-Casual community they have built in the PvE side of this game.
I disagree.
They are complaing about losing pips, not because they lose pips.
They are complaining about losing pips, because matchmaking is so horrible, because we have no SoloQ, because professions are horribly stacked even in full SoloQ vs SoloQ games, people who want lose on purpose due to this flawed system and so on… and all of those make entire experience not fun.
The whole pips business wouldn’t be so bad if the machmaking and balancing wouldn’t be the failures they are… in the end it comes down to luck, if you get the coveted 2 thief 1 warri combo on your team (which by the way happened mutliple times today) you’re done, there’s absolutely no way you will win. I’ve played 8 hours today and have not progressed at all, it’s infuriating. It is also a shame, ‘cause I was actually looking forward to leagues. Yeah I’m salty af.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in
learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
(edited by Morwath.9817)
The problem is that you can solo que…get matched up against a 4 man guild premade on TS…lose the match…AND…lose a pip.
That’s just ridiculous and will not sustain a viable PvP playerbase. Nobody is going to put up with that and keep playing for very long.
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
Assuming you solo queue and the game pushes you to a 50% win rate you have a 3% chance of a 5 win streak to bump up a tier.
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
The system is indeed horrible.
When it comes to soloQ, it has nothing to do with player skill or how well you played in a match. It has to do just with the MMR system which is pushing you to a roughly 50% win/lose ratio. You can maybe make it to ruby but after that it’s pretty much impossible to process.
Inb4 someone come and say how you can easily do it if you just intentionally lose 50 matches first to lower your MMR etc… This is not legit way, it’s actually breaking CoC and should be bannable.
Maybe an easy fix to that would be: If you play ranked SOLO, a win generates 2 pips instead of one.
I just lost 2 pips and no one dc or left, we lost like 500-280 but one person swapped characters right before the start of match. He didnt miss any time but me and a 1 person i was partied with both lost 2 pips.
I just lost 2 pips and no one dc or left, we lost like 500-280 but one person swapped characters right before the start of match. He didnt miss any time but me and a 1 person i was partied with both lost 2 pips.
MM predicted you to easily win and you lost, so enemies got two pips…
Helseth as SoloQ had exacly same situation while losing to full roster Orange Logo.
And the devs thought that raid difficulty would cause tears…
The problem is that you can solo que…get matched up against a 4 man guild premade on TS…lose the match…AND…lose a pip.
That’s just ridiculous and will not sustain a viable PvP playerbase. Nobody is going to put up with that and keep playing for very long.
For over a year people played with weird MMR match making. They still played.
For over a year soloQ people we’re put against premades..they still play.
For over a year highly casual players have had hotjoin exploited and side swapped to death…they still play.
Since the beginning the rewards in PvP have been terrible..they still play.
Since the beginning the buff/nerf train has frustrated players..they still play.
Gw2 seems to have a unique client base. They get a product which contradicts official statements by the company, they play it..they complain about it..yet here they still are. heck the company even has 200k to throw at a tournament.
I can’t say it enough that leagues as a solo-qer is a nightmare. Win a match lose the next. End up a the exact same place. It’s beyond frustrating. On top of class balance, this whole system needs to be redone.
The problem is that you can solo que…get matched up against a 4 man guild premade on TS…lose the match…AND…lose a pip.
That’s just ridiculous and will not sustain a viable PvP playerbase. Nobody is going to put up with that and keep playing for very long.
For over a year people played with weird MMR match making. They still played.
For over a year soloQ people we’re put against premades..they still play.
For over a year highly casual players have had hotjoin exploited and side swapped to death…they still play.
Since the beginning the rewards in PvP have been terrible..they still play.
Since the beginning the buff/nerf train has frustrated players..they still play.Gw2 seems to have a unique client base. They get a product which contradicts official statements by the company, they play it..they complain about it..yet here they still are. heck the company even has 200k to throw at a tournament.
Using your warped logic, people still play MMOs like Rift or Swotr, so I guess things don’t matter because a small percentage “still play” (using your words).
This game has the best combat mechanics which makes it an even greater shame that it’s underperformed in terms of popularity. It should be the #1 MMO for PvP if that was ever handled properly. However, years of slow balancing, no worthwhile rewards, and meaningless leaderboards has sabotaged the popularity of the game.
At this point, I’m probably talking over your head because you don’t see those things as a problem worth fixing.
According to your logic, as long as “people still play”, you think the game has reached the pinnacle popularity.
The problem is that you can solo que…get matched up against a 4 man guild premade on TS…lose the match…AND…lose a pip.
That’s just ridiculous and will not sustain a viable PvP playerbase. Nobody is going to put up with that and keep playing for very long.
For over a year people played with weird MMR match making. They still played.
For over a year soloQ people we’re put against premades..they still play.
For over a year highly casual players have had hotjoin exploited and side swapped to death…they still play.
Since the beginning the rewards in PvP have been terrible..they still play.
Since the beginning the buff/nerf train has frustrated players..they still play.Gw2 seems to have a unique client base. They get a product which contradicts official statements by the company, they play it..they complain about it..yet here they still are. heck the company even has 200k to throw at a tournament.
Using your warped logic, people still play MMOs like Rift or Swotr, so I guess things don’t matter because a small percentage “still play” (using your words).
This game has the best combat mechanics which makes it an even greater shame that it’s underperformed in terms of popularity. It should be the #1 MMO for PvP if that was ever handled properly. However, years of slow balancing, no worthwhile rewards, and meaningless leaderboards has sabotaged the popularity of the game.
At this point, I’m probably talking over your head because you don’t see those things as a problem worth fixing.
According to your logic, as long as “people still play”, you think the game has reached the pinnacle popularity.
Age of Conan had much better combat system, yet it “died”, because devs cattered to much to PvE community and ignored PvP community complains too much.
It seems like the idea behind the league is for people to be pvping in teams rather than solo. At this point, pvping solo in leagues seems like such a bad idea. Why would you risk your pips on a coin toss of getting competent team mates?
If people want to solo queue they should be doing it in unranked, but i suppose people will respond that they want to progress in leagues so they want to play ranked and don’t want to go through the trouble of forming a team.
It seems like the idea behind the league is for people to be pvping in teams rather than solo. At this point, pvping solo in leagues seems like such a bad idea. Why would you risk your pips on a coin toss of getting competent team mates?
If people want to solo queue they should be doing it in unranked, but i suppose people will respond that they want to progress in leagues so they want to play ranked.
Character Standarized Models if anything.
Also Skyhammer in Unranked Que is sick, sick puppy.
Sounds like a pvers outcry that he can’t farm.
Kurodaraku – Necromancer | Kuroshikon – Ranger
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia
Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu and [Fus] Fus Ro Dâh
Ruins of Surmia
I actually like the risk of losing a pip, some things need to be fixed about it, but I like the idea behind it. Though maybe make it so you can only lose 1 pip max, not 2, except maybe in diamond and legendary.
(Granted losing the pip due to an afk/tanker/dc sucks)
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
.5^5= 3% chance
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
Scrubs have no business in ruby, but I agree that the pip system needs some kind of overhaul.
“Since the beginning the rewards in PvP have been terrible..they still play.”
Terrible is too strong of a word, I’d maybe give them a 6/10, could be better, and it’s six instead of 4 or 5 because you can get dungeon tokens without actually doing dungeons and can win PvP only armor sets and finishers. When people see a dragon finisher in WvW they’ll know you’re experienced in sPvP. I know I’m on record for wanting to get rid of grind levels, so I’d give people new finishers based off MMR. It wouldn’t be fair to take away people’s dragon finishers moving to the new system so that’s why I’d advocate new MMR based finishers after rabbit through dragon is scrapped.
And league badges are a kind of reward. If you’re doing Teq and have a sapphire or ruby next to your name people will know you’re awesome. I’m planning on doing some emerald+ story mode dungeon runs to unlock some more reward tracks.
(edited by Agemnon.4608)
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
.5^5= 3% chance
So 3% chance is high for something you need multiple times for a single division? Add to that the 57day time limit
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
.5^5= 3% chance
So 3% chance is high for something you need multiple times for a single division? Add to that the 57day time limit
Uh no, I was supporting your perspective.
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
Wrong. You can have total win rate 50%, but at certain times it may be between 40-60% (which gives 50% at the end), so… if you manage to get 5 wins, then get losing streaks, your loses are mitigated by tier floor… and if system will try to keep give you 50% winrate, you already benefit pip wise.
Its not win-lose-win-lose-win-lose-win-lose… and if its clearly win-lose constantly then you’ve to be throwing yourself over and over.
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
Wrong. You can have total win rate 50%, but at certain times it may be between 40-60% (which gives 50% at the end), so… if you manage to get 5 wins, then get losing streaks, your loses are mitigated by tier floor… and if system will try to keep give you 50% winrate, you already benefit pip wise.
Its not win-lose-win-lose-win-lose-win-lose… and if its clearly win-lose constantly then you’ve to be throwing yourself over and over.
I think I understand the point you’re trying to make, however, if the system is pushing you towards a long run probablity of 50% and each match is modeled as an independent event, then you’re going to have a 3% chance of winning 5 in a row. Now you might make and argument that the matches aren’t independent, but I’d be hard pressed to construct one myself.
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
Wrong. You can have total win rate 50%, but at certain times it may be between 40-60% (which gives 50% at the end), so… if you manage to get 5 wins, then get losing streaks, your loses are mitigated by tier floor… and if system will try to keep give you 50% winrate, you already benefit pip wise.
Its not win-lose-win-lose-win-lose-win-lose… and if its clearly win-lose constantly then you’ve to be throwing yourself over and over.
I think I understand the point you’re trying to make, however, if the system is pushing you towards a long run probablity of 50% and each match is modeled as an independent event, then you’re going to have a 3% chance of winning 5 in a row. Now you might make and argument that the matches aren’t independent, but I’d be hard pressed to construct one myself.
Idk, if I could get soloQ into Sapphire, everyone can…
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
Wrong. You can have total win rate 50%, but at certain times it may be between 40-60% (which gives 50% at the end), so… if you manage to get 5 wins, then get losing streaks, your loses are mitigated by tier floor… and if system will try to keep give you 50% winrate, you already benefit pip wise.
Its not win-lose-win-lose-win-lose-win-lose… and if its clearly win-lose constantly then you’ve to be throwing yourself over and over.
I think I understand the point you’re trying to make, however, if the system is pushing you towards a long run probablity of 50% and each match is modeled as an independent event, then you’re going to have a 3% chance of winning 5 in a row. Now you might make and argument that the matches aren’t independent, but I’d be hard pressed to construct one myself.
Idk, if I could get soloQ into Sapphire, everyone can…
Yes, and I’ve got 3 precursor drops so everyone can. That’s not how probability works.
“Failure to remain calm is the sign of a weak mind.”
Losing Pips is honestly how it should work. It’s the rating system that’s FUBAR
Hackkz/Riggamaroll
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
I’ve stayed at this party entirely too long
Wins should always give 2 pips and loosing loose 1 pip. That way you can progress even if the MMR algorithm forces you into a 50% winrate.
You can progress with 50% winrate up to Ruby, just because you can’t lose tiers… which means you dont lose pips for x% of your loses.
I’m in Sapphire, two days after season has started as soloQ, so I guess everyone should be able to get into Ruby sooner or later.
5 win streaks are pretty rare with 50% winrate.
Wrong. You can have total win rate 50%, but at certain times it may be between 40-60% (which gives 50% at the end), so… if you manage to get 5 wins, then get losing streaks, your loses are mitigated by tier floor… and if system will try to keep give you 50% winrate, you already benefit pip wise.
Its not win-lose-win-lose-win-lose-win-lose… and if its clearly win-lose constantly then you’ve to be throwing yourself over and over.
I think I understand the point you’re trying to make, however, if the system is pushing you towards a long run probablity of 50% and each match is modeled as an independent event, then you’re going to have a 3% chance of winning 5 in a row. Now you might make and argument that the matches aren’t independent, but I’d be hard pressed to construct one myself.
Idk, if I could get soloQ into Sapphire, everyone can…
The popular, it’s ok for me, so it must be ok for everyone else argument.
There should be conditions for every match where the loser doesn’t lose pips. Like a point threshold.
There should be conditions for every match where the loser doesn’t lose pips. Like a point threshold.
“Guys, let us get 50 more points, you win anyway.”
There should be conditions for every match where the loser doesn’t lose pips. Like a point threshold.
“Guys, let us get 50 more points, you win anyway.”
Could happen.
If they removed losing pips then everyone, absolutely everyone would get to the top in time.
So no losing pips needs to be there, just like losing rating in arenas needs to be there.
They should just add a minimum threshold so, no matter what happens, you don’t loose pips if you reach it. Like, if you score 300-400 points on the loosing side, the most that will happen is you won’t get anything.
This way sore losers (ahem GASM) won’t just afk like total noobs and moan after things start to go south 60s into match…
Jade Quarry – Esparie
Illustrious Exhausted Primordial Legendary Druid, and Mesmer for fun
PvE | PvP (1500)| WvW | Fractals | Dungeons
Illustrious Exhausted Primordial Legendary Druid, and Mesmer for fun
PvE | PvP (1500)| WvW | Fractals | Dungeons
- Amber: lose = 0, win = +1, stay at tier
- Emerald: lose = -1/3, win = +1, stay at tier
- Saphire: lose = -1/2, win = +1, stay at tier
- Ruby: lose = -1, win = +1, stay at tier
- Diamon and above: lose = -1, win = +1, can lose tier.
All i want in PvP is reward (legend back) and having fun with teammate. But this current league make every teammate i have in every match, regardless we win or lose, feel bored, angry, tired. This is not fun and so much hardcore.
Let’s give everybody participation trophies too
Let’s give everybody participation trophies too
Hope you will enjoy the queues with your premade teams as soon as the solo/duoQ people realize they cannot advance in the divisions.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
I originally loved this system. Losing pips makes the PvP rewards and higher leagues so much more desirable.
However after spending 10 hours pvping today and making it to 4 pips about 8 times before going back down to 1 pip I am so done. Getting stuck with people in your team who cant play and going up against kitten team of Dragonhunters, Necros and Eles. Something needs to change
I hope Anet improves the system for the next season, so people actually can progress without exploits and/or premades.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
I have to agree with the OP. This system simply isn’t fun. I could care less how leet and competitive it is. If I can’t progress i’ll stop playing.
With the old rank system, people complained that only the ones who can sink thousands of hours into the game have any chance to ever reach the top.
Now that winning games is more important than just playing a lot of games, people complain that they lose points when they lose a game.
Seriously?
The only crime, turrets committed, is being good against the celestial meta.
The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.
The mob has spoken and the turrets shall be burnt at the stake.
But the ability to lose pips is important because you can’t have novices being carried to legendary.
Let’s give everybody participation trophies too
Well there are still daily logins, 500 points for losing, and a little reward track progress instead of getting nothing upon losing.