Guild Wars 2

The algorithm seems slightly better, but there are still matches that are completely one sided. Part of this is because we are not putting level of entry for new people.

I don’t want to be matched against rank 6s and just steamroll them. Rank 1-20s should be in their own division.

It seems like that but…
I’ve played 4 matches, I lost 3 and won 1 but in all of them the match was pretty even.

Acandis.3250:

Nice matchmaking…
jk, nothing changed. it still sucks.

Claps Very constructive post, keep it up.

Just had 4 games on EU – 3 were very close.

Love it.

Can’t wait to give it a try later, I hadn’t really enjoyed solo queue that much since the quality of the matchups was generally pretty low (especially during off-peak hours). I expect that I will enjoy playing solo queue a lot more after this change, thanks for the hard work on it.

Some people will never be happy. As long as you did what you said you would do which is distribute the 10 players selected in a way that makes the two sides as even as possible that is all you can ask for. Now its not enough apparently. I am sure there will be plenty of high rank players complaining about this though because the number of guaranteed wins will go down dramatically just because of how the old system worked.

Justin ODell.9517:

Acandis.3250:

Nice matchmaking…
jk, nothing changed. it still sucks.

Watching your rosters. So far you’re being put into reasonable matches based on your MMR.

I appreciate your response.

On average, you could say that, but there have been a couple games that were completely lopsided. I find it hard to believe that getting matched against really low ranks and being able to 1v2 them without having to pay attention to animations is reasonable.

I’ll admit the system is slightly smoother, but more tweaks are needed.

Wow, if people start around the rank 400-500 area, that’s definitely too high. I’d think in an ideal world, people would start around 50th percentile.

Thanks, Justin, for letting us in on how it works and what you have to keep in mind.

What I still don’t like is being matched against 3 Mesmer + 2 Necro with a team of classes without minions. (I mean thieves, engineers, ele and guardian still can use stuff like thieves guild, turrets… but it is not their usual stuff). Basically free win for the team with 3 Mesmers.

Justin ODell.9517:

Acandis.3250:

I find it hard to believe that getting matched against really low ranks.

Well, you’re right on the curve where we stick new players.

We’ve talked about putting the default MMR to a lower number, might be something we want to do for the upcoming MMR/leaderboard reset.

Why don’t you simply put an entry rank for arenas? Rank 10 should be fine to avoid completely new SPVPers.

cymerdown.4103:

Can’t wait to give it a try later, I hadn’t really enjoyed solo queue that much since the quality of the matchups was generally pretty low (especially during off-peak hours). I expect that I will enjoy playing solo queue a lot more after this change, thanks for the hard work on it.

In off peak hours there won’t be enough people near your MMR so you will likely get stuck with odd ball players.

Oni Link.4621:

Justin ODell.9517:

Acandis.3250:

I find it hard to believe that getting matched against really low ranks.

Well, you’re right on the curve where we stick new players.

We’ve talked about putting the default MMR to a lower number, might be something we want to do for the upcoming MMR/leaderboard reset.

Why don’t you simply put an entry rank for arenas? Rank 10 should be fine to avoid completely new SPVPers.

Because that might make Q times for r1-10 really long?

kirito.4138:

In off peak hours there won’t be enough people near your MMR so you will likely get stuck with odd ball players.

True, but so will the other team if the new matchmaking is working properly.

Holy kitten… too many bad matches… this will take ages again to get a proper rating. I think I won’t play much more. Getting boring. I’ll stop with sPvP. First it sounded good to reset the matchmaking ratings. But cause now everything is random until everone has a rating there are boring matches. 33 vs. 500 losing is not fun(also winning would not be fun).

I’m afking a bit or just walking around without trying fighting(to avoid leaver debuff and to get low rating so I can get some wins lol).

Edit: Strangely it still shows my high percentage? Or even higher than before even when I lost 2 matches??? Didn’t they say rating has been reset?

Justin ODell.9517:

Acandis.3250:

I find it hard to believe that getting matched against really low ranks.

Well, you’re right on the curve where we stick new players.

We’ve talked about putting the default MMR to a lower number, might be something we want to do for the upcoming MMR/leaderboard reset.

I have to agree with Ken, I think putting new players so high is a problem.
I do understand that there probably aren’t that many active players but considering I’ve gotten matched with some <100 people in this range, I’m really concerned about putting new players in that range.

Acandis.3250:

Edit
I’ll be more constructive. The algorithm seems slightly better, but there are still matches that are completely one sided. Part of this is because we are not putting level of entry for new people.

I don’t want to be matched against rank 6s and just steamroll them. Rank 1-20s should be in their own division.

That’s exactly what I suggested a month or so ago. There NEEDS to be a gate before people can try solo q.

The first step was ensuring that hotjoin rewards winning and not the other stuff. They fixed it, but giving personal rank during the match still sends the wrong message. Glory needs to be from winning and anything that shows glory being gained from anything else should be removed. (i.e. standing on point to full cap gives 10 points. Get rid of it!)

Once hotjoin becomes an adequate training ground for new players, then they should be required to hit a certain rank before they can enter solo q. If hotjoin only rewards winning, that should basically equate to X amount of games won.

I’ve played 300+ solo q games, and it’s weird being matched with someone who just started playing SPVP. It’s not their fault, why were they even allowed to queue for RATED Solo Q.

felivear.1536:

why were they even allowed to queue for RATED Solo Q.

True, I’m guessing with the changes to hotjoin and leaderboards, they are preparing for a change like you’re suggesting. Solo Queue at rank 20+ and Team Queue at rank 30+ seems logical.

cymerdown.4103:

felivear.1536:

why were they even allowed to queue for RATED Solo Q.

True, I’m guessing with the changes to hotjoin and leaderboards, they are preparing for a change like you’re suggesting. Solo Queue at rank 20+ and Team Queue at rank 30+ seems logical.

I don’t think there needs to be a rank floor for Team Queue as long as they change the way teams can queue up. It should only be 5 premade vs 5 premade. Always.

Also, there need to be “team rosters” not guilds, so a 5v5 leaderboard tracks rosters, not individual players. It’s dumb to track the latter.

lol don’t complain about the weird match ups yet. Its barely been out 1 day. For that matter if MMR was reset ( I haven’t bothered to read the post) then it should take like a week to calm down and even stuff out.

Chill.

JinDaVikk.7291:

( I haven’t bothered to read the post)

Don’t reply if you haven’t read the post.

For the record, it hasn’t.

Alright then.

/15 char

I’ll add my 2cents as someone who’s transferred from EU to NA about a month ago

Seems to be way less people playing spvp in NA than EU thus games were always a wide range of pvp leveled players which NEVER happened in EU i never had people in game who were more than 10 levels above or below me, i doubt this change will do much to help NA

The only thing thats better in NA than EU is even tho the queue times are alot higher theres always people playing no matter what time it is, queue times are way shorter during peak times in EU but ones you get into the a.m. the queues get really high

I’m having a great time so far. Much better from the games I’ve played.

cymerdown.4103:

kirito.4138:

In off peak hours there won’t be enough people near your MMR so you will likely get stuck with odd ball players.

True, but so will the other team if the new matchmaking is working properly.

Its more like rolling the dice and see which team get the R1 or clueless player at those times.

First queue: me (mesmer) and another mesmer against 2 necros…

Needless to say ? Maybe its not a problem of balancing classes, maybe its just your kittenty balance with condition spam and cc over the top hmmm?

Drexciyian.9453:

I’ll add my 2cents as someone who’s transferred from EU to NA about a month ago

Seems to be way less people playing spvp in NA than EU thus games were always a wide range of pvp leveled players which NEVER happened in EU i never had people in game who were more than 10 levels above or below me, i doubt this change will do much to help NA

The only thing thats better in NA than EU is even tho the queue times are alot higher theres always people playing no matter what time it is, queue times are way shorter during peak times in EU but ones you get into the a.m. the queues get really high

I actively play on both NA and EU. ~True what he said.

I am Top 100 in SoloQ on EU and I have been placed with 9 ‘Unranked’ players 3 times in a row now. They were all different players as well.

Something is not right…

2 guardians, 2 necromansers and a thief in Skyhammer… are you serious?

Justin ODell.9517:

Watching your rosters. So far you’re being put into reasonable matches based on your MMR.

Could you please check my roster too, the last hours i had a HORRIBLE gaming experience! Im Constantly in teams with two ppl beiing r20, while the opponent team has 2 ppl with r50 The r50’s just farm the 20’s and the result is something like a 3 vs 5! Thats no fun for me

I add 2 example srceenshots, one showing me loosing, one showing me winning, same problem on both screenshots. But since an hour im always on the loosing side

Help or just any kind of comment would be much appreciated!

EDIT: And I’m dropping, no im falling, in rating like a stone! I dont know why i drop in rating if i’m obviously in the team that is worse. Would be nice if you could look into this too

I think what’s happening is the algorithm is matching 2 teams with average similar rating but often how that turns out is 3-4 high ranked players with 2 people off the board vs. 4 mediocre players and 1 decent player, so the average mmr of both teams is similar but it’s not true matchmaking.

This goes back to would you rather wait longer to find a good match, or just play right away.

The issue that causes this is the difference in overall pvp experience between people with similar MMR.

You can have guys that played up till rank 50+ in hotjoins who have close to no MMR since they barely played tpvp games. Even if those hotjoins arent the same as tpvp games, those guys will be more comfortable with their class than the average rank 10 for example.

kirito.4138:

Oni Link.4621:

Justin ODell.9517:

Acandis.3250:

I find it hard to believe that getting matched against really low ranks.

Well, you’re right on the curve where we stick new players.

We’ve talked about putting the default MMR to a lower number, might be something we want to do for the upcoming MMR/leaderboard reset.

Why don’t you simply put an entry rank for arenas? Rank 10 should be fine to avoid completely new SPVPers.

Because that might make Q times for r1-10 really long?

I guess you misunderstood: entry rank means that you can NOT enter rated arenas if you are not equal or above rank 10.
It won’t make queues longer but it will avoid newbies to ruin matches with their inexperience (caused also by those kitten hotjoins, but that is another topic).

Oni Link.4621:

kirito.4138:

Oni Link.4621:

Justin ODell.9517:

Acandis.3250:

I find it hard to believe that getting matched against really low ranks.

Well, you’re right on the curve where we stick new players.

We’ve talked about putting the default MMR to a lower number, might be something we want to do for the upcoming MMR/leaderboard reset.

Why don’t you simply put an entry rank for arenas? Rank 10 should be fine to avoid completely new SPVPers.

Because that might make Q times for r1-10 really long?

I guess you misunderstood: entry rank means that you can NOT enter rated arenas if you are not equal or above rank 10.
It won’t make queues longer but it will avoid newbies to ruin matches with their inexperience (caused also by those kitten hotjoins, but that is another topic).

just lol post.. so a guy with rank < 10 has no experience.. but after they ranked up in hot join to 10 they suddenly got all the experience needed to play tourney?

i hope u understand that u just move the numbers. if they would implement your suggestion at some point ppl would complain about lvl > 10 < 20 newbis and start to cry for a higher entry…

Locuz.2651:

The issue that causes this is the difference in overall pvp experience between people with similar MMR.

You can have guys that played up till rank 50+ in hotjoins who have close to no MMR since they barely played tpvp games. Even if those hotjoins arent the same as tpvp games, those guys will be more comfortable with their class than the average rank 10 for example.

That’s was i thought too, and it is the reason why i want a dev to check my roaster. They can for sure see what is going on there, and maybe find something that can help to improve the matchmaking.

I have had some decent games. 1 blow out that I lost and another 4vs5. other then that most games were 500-400 combos. I would have to agree though. There were a lot of rank 20 and belows in the teams. I would like to see a bracket for those people 1-20 ranks. I have a couple thousand tourny games played and hate being paired with people who do not understand basic rotations. Please adjust this. I do not mind waiting around longer for it.
I know my mmr isnt great lately because I stopped caring like most people when this kitten was broken. I know it will take a while to balance out. I have been all over the leaderboards from rank 15 to 78%.
WeW! go troll burst staff ele!

some more feedback here:
4 games played so far this morning.

• the first 2 we won something like 500-100.. (l0l)
• third i got matched with 2 people not even on the lboard http://imgur.com/FPtw9AE (keep in mind i’m not that low on it (like 300ish)) against a bunch of rank 40+ all ranked <300, 1 of them was rank 26 at the time of this match (lol again)
• fourth the match was closer but still got matched with a rank 20 not even on the board vs. 5 rank 40+ all ranked 400ish. tbh we wouldn’t have won if they didn’t have 2 thieves playing dumb builds http://imgur.com/7cJ13j8. it also helped that they were trying to 3v4 us on our node for what seemed like 7 minutes while our rank 20 ranger just ran around decapping nodes lol

Edit: all matches were 5v5, the 2 screenshots that i got were after people left postmatch

Edit2: I want to note this isn’t a QQ reply, i don’t care about losing a match cause i know i win way more than i lose. it’s more about these new unranked players getting placed in places they clearly don’t belong and they’re not benefiting from it in the slightest.

Justin ODell.9517:

Tranassa.4968:

Justin ODell.9517:

Watching your rosters. So far you’re being put into reasonable matches based on your MMR.

Could you please check my roster too, the last hours i had a HORRIBLE gaming experience! Im Constantly in teams with two ppl beiing r20, while the opponent team has 2 ppl with r50 The r50’s just farm the 20’s and the result is something like a 3 vs 5! Thats no fun for me

I add 2 example srceenshots, one showing me loosing, one showing me winning, same problem on both screenshots. But since an hour im always on the loosing side

Help or just any kind of comment would be much appreciated!

EDIT: And I’m dropping, no im falling, in rating like a stone! I dont know why i drop in rating if i’m obviously in the team that is worse. Would be nice if you could look into this too

I don’t know what to tell you. I can’t see all your matches, but the latest ones have all been very even as far as MMR is concerned.

Please keep in mind that Rank != Skill.

so when do u will show leaderboardrank in the scoreboard? i know it was already suggested a few times.. that would stop that constant qq about low or high rank players.

hooma.9642:

just lol post.. so a guy with rank < 10 has no experience.. but after they ranked up in hot join to 10 they suddenly got all the experience needed to play tourney?

i hope u understand that u just move the numbers. if they would implement your suggestion at some point ppl would complain about lvl > 10 < 20 newbis and start to cry for a higher entry…

Instead of being sarcastic you should read it for its purpose. I NEVER said that above rank 10 they know how to play but at least they know what their skills do.
It was so plain obvious that I didn’t think it was worth explaining.

Should probably get rid of personal rank all together and display Leaderboard/mmr Rank instead…

As you said Rank!=Skill, so you’re really just showing off how bad you are for playing for so long.

I honestly don’t think either rank should be displayed. Also amount of glory farmed that match? Why not just show KDA?

Oni Link.4621:

hooma.9642:

just lol post.. so a guy with rank < 10 has no experience.. but after they ranked up in hot join to 10 they suddenly got all the experience needed to play tourney?

i hope u understand that u just move the numbers. if they would implement your suggestion at some point ppl would complain about lvl > 10 < 20 newbis and start to cry for a higher entry…

Instead of being sarcastic you should read it for its purpose. I NEVER said that above rank 10 they know how to play but at least they know what their skills do.
It was so plain obvious that I didn’t think it was worth explaining.

yeah cause not knowing what skills do is clearly the problem… just lol

Acandis.3250:

I honestly don’t think either rank should be displayed. Also amount of glory farmed that match? Why not just show KDA?

I dunno numbers really can’t tell you what you need to know about a match anyway.. but seeing if you beat some pro top 100 whackamole monkies would be nice.

Justin ODell.9517:

I don’t know what to tell you. I can’t see all your matches, but the latest ones have all been very even as far as MMR is concerned.

Please keep in mind that Rank != Skill.

Okay thank you anyway
I think the “Problem” are rly hot join players, that are coming to tpvp now. I had one opponent complaining about beeing unable to leave the match… we all know that this is not possible in tournaments, but this player did not know that… its no proof, but it is a good “hint”.

I would sugest that you maybe should make the MMR that new players get, beeing dependent on the number of matches/the rank this players have. So for example a player that is new to tpvp would start with a higher MMR if he is already “experienced” in pvp in general. And a player who is complety new to pvp gets a low MMR so that he is not matched up with experienced players/good players.

I noticed a big problem for new players (new to tpvp) is that a lot of them quit soon, because they are just loosing. I think what i have suggested above could help here too.

And of course I’m aware that skill != Rank and vise versa. I just noticed a big missmatch in playerskill! As pointed out above this might be because of new players have a similar MMR compared to ladder rank 500 People (not sure if this is true, just read it somewhere here ont he forums).

I also think that most of the positiv feedback here in the forums is from top 200 pvp players (maybe it would be helpfull for the deffs is people write on what rank they are atm). All i want to say is: I think there is a problem around ladder rank >500 (500-800/900/…)

Nothing more to say atm. Except, ty again for looking into my problem I really appreciate your effort!

EDIT: More to say

Justin ODell.9517:

hooma.9642:

so when do u will show leaderboardrank in the scoreboard? i know it was already suggested a few times.. that would stop that constant qq about low or high rank players.

Not a bad idea. I’ll bring it up with the team. It might be confusing though because there is already a “Rank” on the leaderboards.

Rename it (PvP-)Level… would be consistent with the PvE Mode. Then “rank” can be used excusive for ladder.

Got another match, that was not balanced imo. I was asking in chat if the players are playing tpvp more often, unfortunately just one other player seemed to understand english and be willing to comunicate. He said he is playing infrequently.

Screenshot from the match’s end:

Justin ODell.9517:

hooma.9642:

so when do u will show leaderboardrank in the scoreboard? i know it was already suggested a few times.. that would stop that constant qq about low or high rank players.

Not a bad idea. I’ll bring it up with the team. It might be confusing though because there is already a “Rank” on the leaderboards.

Show us our MMR on the scoreboard AND on the leaderboard please. People are still thinking that PvP rank means skill .. If you show us our MMR and if the matchmaking system is good then people will not complaint about your matchmaking anymore.

Mystylaise.4673:

Justin ODell.9517:

hooma.9642:

so when do u will show leaderboardrank in the scoreboard? i know it was already suggested a few times.. that would stop that constant qq about low or high rank players.

Not a bad idea. I’ll bring it up with the team. It might be confusing though because there is already a “Rank” on the leaderboards.

Show us our MMR on the scoreboard AND on the leaderboard please. People are still thinking that PvP rank means skill .. If you show us our MMR and if the matchmaking system is good then people will not complaint about your matchmaking anymore.

we not necessary need the mmr.. position or % on leaderboard would be enough to quickly calculate if the match is balanced or not.