Guild Wars 2

What happens if it’s a tie 50% for two maps … Which gets chosen

It should be random 50:50.

Just that you understand correctly unless all player vote for the same map, any map a player has voted for has a chance (the chance is dependend on what the other player have voted) of getting selected.

It is like a die with 10 sides one for each player.

Great! This is awesome!!! My team (we win every team q) will play and some mid tier team is gonna run 5 engis ... They know they can’t win in any other circumstance.... They build only for Skyhammer ... Gj anet. This is what we meant when we said we wanted more competition in high lvl play

Aaron.2413:

Great! This is awesome!!! My team (we win every team q) will play and some mid tier team is gonna run 5 engis … They know they can’t win in any other circumstance…. They build only for Skyhammer … Gj anet. This is what we meant when we said we wanted more competition in high lvl play

yeah this is what i dont like about this.. 1 troll or maybe a whole team will vote for skyhammer and then legit teams will have to deal with it

I don’t mind the occasional game on Skyhammer or Spirit Watch. 9 out of 10 games will still be Foefire or Khylo anyway, which is boring enough.

Nitesky.6427:

I don’t mind the occasional game on Skyhammer or Spirit Watch. 9 out of 10 games will still be Foefire or Khylo anyway, which is boring enough.

This.

Besides, even if it is just one in ten players that occasionally enjoys a Skyhammer map, they have every right to play on the Skyhammer map 10% of the time, while 90% of the time having to play on the map of everybody else’s choice.

That’s how voting works: you might not like the outcome, but it is the definition of fair.

Aaron.2413:

Great! This is awesome!!! My team (we win every team q) will play and some mid tier team is gonna run 5 engis … They know they can’t win in any other circumstance…. They build only for Skyhammer … Gj anet. This is what we meant when we said we wanted more competition in high lvl play

The map voting system will not work like this.

Players can choose bewteen three maps, and those three maps are chosen randomnly: this already means that skyhammer may not even be in the map-voting list.
Once the three maps have been randomly selected, all players will have the chance to vote one of the map.
Then, the map selection will work as a “loaded dice”: let’s make an example.

• The three maps are Khylo, Legacy and Temple (note that Skyhammer is already not in the list).
• 5 players vote Khylo, 5 players vote Temple
• the probability of Khylo to be the next map will be 50%. Temple will be 50%. Legacy will never be the next map, since it has 0% * 1 probability of being chosen.

Do not spare, aaron

Im not saying I would run that….
But others could and it could give them bogus wins….
IT HAPPENED when you guys released skyhammer in team q 24/7 for a weekend…. a 4engi and 1 ranger team went like 30-0 and beat all the top teams of the time

Justin ODell.9517:

Oh, and running 5 of any professions is also going to hurt them on matchmaking, so it’ll take them longer to find a match, and that match likely isn’t going to be a good one. We’ll probably toss them in with other cheeze comps.

Why?

I’m part of [OMFG], a mesmer guild, and we often like to play 5-Mesmer comp in tPvP because, hell, we’re mesmers and we’re just that awesome.

That’s besides the point. We don’t try to coordinate ourselves to all be cheese. We play what we like[Shatter, Condi, Lockdown, etc.] and are good at and do pretty well so long as we play well. Why/How does this new match-making punish a single-profession team?

Dondagora.9645:

Justin ODell.9517:

Oh, and running 5 of any professions is also going to hurt them on matchmaking, so it’ll take them longer to find a match, and that match likely isn’t going to be a good one. We’ll probably toss them in with other cheeze comps.

Why?

I’m part of [OMFG], a mesmer guild, and we often like to play 5-Mesmer comp in tPvP because, hell, we’re mesmers and we’re just that awesome.

That’s besides the point. We don’t try to coordinate ourselves to all be cheese. We play what we like[Shatter, Condi, Lockdown, etc.] and are good at and do pretty well so long as we play well. Why/How does this new match-making punish a single-profession team?

5 mes comps are much less viable than 5 engie comps so presuming A-net knows this it’s possibly less likely to get thrown into other “cheese” comps. As for taking longer well I’m sure that’s because of MMR or the game trying to force diversity in match making.

Justin ODell.9517:

Dondagora.9645:

Why/How does this new match-making punish a single-profession team?

We reduce matchmaking score for duplicate professions, whether intentional or not. Do you think there are many others like your team?

Not really, but it somewhat peeves me. There was only one other time where I’ve seen a single-profession team[warriors]. In the profession forums, there’s a full-necro and maybe a full-ranger guild who do teams, so there are some floating about.

So, every person of the same profession reduces the matchmaking score? While I understand you might want diversity in professions, is the fact that you’re discouraging duplicate profession teams like admitting that certain “cheese” of certain professions are ridiculous en masse? Like, let’s say, the engi previously mentioned? If so, I think rather than cripple those of us of the same profession who like to join up in PvP, wouldn’t nerfs be more reasonable?

Or is it just a simple want for diversity in each? That could also be fine, but at the cost of “playing how you want to” by handicapping certain comps.

Or, if it’s something I haven’t said, can you please explain the reasoning behind this idea?

Sorry for all the assumptions and questions, but understanding the reasons behind these changes is very important for those of us it affects.

Daishi.6027:

Dondagora.9645:

Justin ODell.9517:

Oh, and running 5 of any professions is also going to hurt them on matchmaking, so it’ll take them longer to find a match, and that match likely isn’t going to be a good one. We’ll probably toss them in with other cheeze comps.

Why?

I’m part of [OMFG], a mesmer guild, and we often like to play 5-Mesmer comp in tPvP because, hell, we’re mesmers and we’re just that awesome.

That’s besides the point. We don’t try to coordinate ourselves to all be cheese. We play what we like[Shatter, Condi, Lockdown, etc.] and are good at and do pretty well so long as we play well. Why/How does this new match-making punish a single-profession team?

5 mes comps are much less viable than 5 engie comps so presuming A-net knows this it’s possibly less likely to get thrown into other “cheese” comps. As for taking longer well I’m sure that’s because of MMR or the game trying to force diversity in match making.

If that were so, I wouldn’t be troubled, however from the wording and from Justin’s response, it sounds like ANet is putting “duplicate professions” in a very all-encompassing box and not differentiating by profession or build.

Wait what?! Justin are you saying its possible to get skyhammer now if you queue with your 5 man team?

Justin ODell.9517:

Dondagora.9645:

Why/How does this new match-making punish a single-profession team?

We reduce matchmaking score for duplicate professions, whether intentional or not. Do you think there are many others like your team?

Does that mean that if I play with my friend, who uses the same class as me, we are going to be punished?

What if I’m a bunker guardian while he is a dps greatsword guard? It’s not even the same playstile and we are not abusing any cheese at all.

Also, imagine that 2 mesmers are playing together. That’s really weak and loses many games, everyone knows that. On top of that you are also reducing their matchmaking score.

This also kills team variety. You are not giving new meta games and strats the chance to develop.

many teams run double ele, and some run double engy.
Double is common, triple is rare

Justin ODell.9517:

As Frenk.5917 mentioned, they won’t even have the ability to vote on Skyhammer every time there is a vote. If there are 6 maps, and 3 slots, the odds of any map showing is about 62% (1/6 + 1/5 + 1/4)

What are you trying to do in this calculation? the chance of getting a particular map is 50%.

1/6 + (5/6 * 1/5) + (5/6 * 4/5 *1/4) = 1/2

Or am I missing something?

@Justin,

Why does ANET continue to push skyhammer when the majority of players do not like it? You guys have done a lot of great work and that is starting to be overshadowed by this skyhammer conversation. Just remove it from the ranked arena and leave it in the other places.

style.6173:

@Justin,

Why does ANET continue to push skyhammer when the majority of players do not like it? You guys have done a lot of great work and that is starting to be overshadowed by this skyhammer conversation. Just remove it from the ranked arena and leave it in the other places.

sPvP wouldn’t exist if they listened to the majority of players. It’d be GvG and PvE.

But then again what if skyhammer isn’t available in matched arena but available for selection in the unranked arenas. Since your combining solo and team why not just do that..

you should make it so skyhammer won’t ever appear if there is a team of 5 qing. only if its duoqing or soloqrs.. that way teams that are actually trying to practice actual competitive tpvp for your such amazing holy tournaments won’t have to waste 15 minutes of their life knocking people off ledges.

SaintSnow.6593:

But then again what if skyhammer isn’t available in matched arena but available for selection in the unranked arenas. Since your combining solo and team why not just do that..

Because you are GOING to play skyhammer, and you are GOING to like it. The metrics say that people play on the map therefore they like it. It doesn’t matter that it has absolutely no place in the competitive scene, seeing as it’s already been removed from the queue. They removed Capricorn completely because “some people” didn’t like it, despite some people actually liking it, because instead of balancing their game they are going to take the easy way out every time, because there is so much work to be done on more important areas, like forcing you to play Skyhammer for no reason other than, because.

I’m playing until Dec 2, along with a ton of other people (the discussion has gone across quite a few guilds and friends lists), we will not play or support a game that tells us what is fun, simultaneously degrading TeamQ to that of the current SoloQ. No title or single piece of armor is going to change that either.

Justin ODell.9517:

We know a few players like Skyhammer and the majority do not.

Fixed. Run the numbers after the change and let us know the reality.

GOSU.9574:

Justin ODell.9517:

We know a few players like Skyhammer and the majority do not.

Fixed. Run the numbers after the change and let us know the reality.

Still, even if it’s only a few, they do like it. You can’t throw them out on the curb just ‘cause they’re not the majority.

I personally don’t like Skyhammer very much[Sometimes if I use focus on my Mesmer it’s humorous], but I support ANet’s position on not ruling out the minority opinion.

Booms.2594:

you should make it so skyhammer won’t ever appear if there is a team of 5 qing. only if its duoqing or soloqrs.. that way teams that are actually trying to practice actual competitive tpvp for your such amazing holy tournaments won’t have to waste 15 minutes of their life knocking people off ledges.

I like the idea, but it would have to be your team and an opposing five man organized team matched together, which may or may not always happen. For higher end teams actively queuing I could see it occurring often though.

That aside, even if something like this isn’t done – at least if your whole team doesn’t want to play skyhammer, all five can vote as such giving you a decent chance you won’t get it.

Justin is on FIYAH in this thread! Thank you for answering all of these questions with precision and wit!

Also, I’ve been on some of those 5-person teams full of Mesmers (Go OMFG!!), and the AI alone is overwhelming for some players. I agree with Justin’s stance. This move is good for match-making.

edit: last thing – Skyhammer stays. I actually love skyhammer now that they’ve balanced the hammer and glass panels. It makes for a much more enjoyable match. Both are still dangerous when manipulated, but no where near as easy to abuse as they once were.

Justin ODell.9517:

style.6173:

Why does ANET continue to push skyhammer when the majority of players do not like it?

Because if we only cared about what the majority of players like there wouldn’t even be a PvP mode?

We know some players like Skyhammer and some don’t. After Dec 2nd will know the exact numbers, but don’t expect to be surprised. We try to be inclusive as possible.

Theres plenty of people that like Skyhammer.
The preppy popular kids like it because theres no builds for Skyhammer on http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki .
They are the only ones who can dominate so kitten hammer and force an easy win because everybody doesn’t know how to knock people off.
All the community knows is run into enemy and hope you win by spamming buttons.

They don’t know anything about the skill and high level of play it takes to win Skyhammer. When you see a game won by like 100 to 500, its all because a good player carried entire team.

I’m all for more maps where skill is greatly put into the game, where a good player can truly win the game against a bunch of baddies, on regular conquest that cant happen as easily as it is on Skyhammer type map. You cant easily take out 1-3 people by yourself due to high skill level of play.

More maps like Skyhammer please, and keep Skyhammer its a great map, just requires a lot of skill. And changing your build to support that map (one thing a lot of players lack, they refuse or lack capability to change there builds to be more effective on Skyhammer, thus they get owned all day… Not ANET fault, its the players fault. Everyone is on equal grounds, its just the skill that comes in and it shines kitten Skyhammer.

What usually happens on Skyhammer is one guy dominates hammer room, the entire team refuses to goto hammer because they all newbs and ‘I cant 1v1’, thus nobody goes to hammer, and game has been predetermined. If nobody on your team can 1v1 him, than he clearly better than you (you can do anything he can do, its a fair pvp system), if your team doesn’t 2v1 him or he beats both of you, then clearly he is better than you. You team doesn’t even deserve to win. And reason why he would beat you both is because mainly you didn’t change to a good Skyhammer spec (no good Skyhammer specs are available, hence why people have issues with this map.)
Those preppy popular kids, will gladly show you builds that everyone knows about, but when it comes to showing you a Skyhammer build… Its a secret, they like farming you on tournaments to even think about showing you the secret Skyhammer build.

Don’t blame the game, blame the players.

uberkingkong.8041:

Justin ODell.9517:

style.6173:

Why does ANET continue to push skyhammer when the majority of players do not like it?

Because if we only cared about what the majority of players like there wouldn’t even be a PvP mode?

We know some players like Skyhammer and some don’t. After Dec 2nd will know the exact numbers, but don’t expect to be surprised. We try to be inclusive as possible.

Theres plenty of people that like Skyhammer.
The preppy popular kids like it because theres no builds for Skyhammer on http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki .
They are the only ones who can dominate so kitten hammer and force an easy win because everybody doesn’t know how to knock people off.
All the community knows is run into enemy and hope you win by spamming buttons.

They don’t know anything about the skill and high level of play it takes to win Skyhammer. When you see a game won by like 100 to 500, its all because a good player carried entire team.

I’m all for more maps where skill is greatly put into the game, where a good player can truly win the game against a bunch of baddies, on regular conquest that cant happen as easily as it is on Skyhammer type map. You cant easily take out 1-3 people by yourself due to high skill level of play.

More maps like Skyhammer please, and keep Skyhammer its a great map, just requires a lot of skill. And changing your build to support that map (one thing a lot of players lack, they refuse or lack capability to change there builds to be more effective on Skyhammer, thus they get owned all day… Not ANET fault, its the players fault. Everyone is on equal grounds, its just the skill that comes in and it shines kitten Skyhammer.

What usually happens on Skyhammer is one guy dominates hammer room, the entire team refuses to goto hammer because they all newbs and ‘I cant 1v1’, thus nobody goes to hammer, and game has been predetermined. If nobody on your team can 1v1 him, than he clearly better than you (you can do anything he can do, its a fair pvp system), if your team doesn’t 2v1 him or he beats both of you, then clearly he is better than you. You team doesn’t even deserve to win. And reason why he would beat you both is because mainly you didn’t change to a good Skyhammer spec (no good Skyhammer specs are available, hence why people have issues with this map.)
Those preppy popular kids, will gladly show you builds that everyone knows about, but when it comes to showing you a Skyhammer build… Its a secret, they like farming you on tournaments to even think about showing you the secret Skyhammer build.

Don’t blame the game, blame the players.

Your obviously playing in a perfect world that doesn’t really exist ~

Skyhammer is mostly a map of “who has a better graphics card/ lowest ping/latency” because it is one shot kills. You cannot recover from being knocked off, unlike almost all other parts of pvp.

bud.9246:

Your obviously playing in a perfect world that doesn’t really exist ~

Skyhammer is mostly a map of “who has a better graphics card/ lowest ping/latency” because it is one shot kills. You cannot recover from being knocked off, unlike almost all other parts of pvp.

Whoever has a better connection gives you an edge on anything internet related. A player not specced for Skyhammer will lose to someone who is specced for Skyhammer.

You guys talk about wanting new game modes, maps, etc. Obviously if you want to win on some modes or maps you will have to change it up a bit.

Playing a regular meta build on a map that requires you to change a few things will put you at a disadvantage. Because the good players know how to change and the bad players don’t because theres no guidance for them.

A good player will beat a bad player regardless of being 50 ping higher than a bad player. The only thing is that Skyhammer allows good players to beat bad players a lot faster.