Guild Wars 2

NeXeD.3042:

you can’t see his or your own MMR……… so please tell me how you are in the same grouping.

Thats the question I’m asking.
How did someone, as bad/borderline average at pvp, like me, get put in the same match vs someone as good as him.

Average queue times were 1 min 32 sec.

Safari.3021:

NeXeD.3042:

you can’t see his or your own MMR……… so please tell me how you are in the same grouping.

Thats the question I’m asking.
How did someone, as bad/borderline average at pvp, like me, get put in the same match vs someone as good as him.

Average queue times were 1 min 32 sec.

So you got matched with a better player than yourself. From what I’ve heard eu q is dead maybe that’s why. Or maybe your MMR was inflated for whatever reason. Maybe his was low for whatever reason. Maybe you are underestimating yourself. Maybe you had an outlier game. Maybe the total team mmr for both sides was pretty equal. It’s a matchmaking algorithm….. I don’t know what else to tell you.

Yesterday I got matched against five gauge and toker of their other pals on my other acct. It’s going to happen, I was just happy we made it to like 350

the matchmaking has been progressively worse the last few days

The biggest problem:

The game is 2,5 years old, called Guildwars and we don’t have GvG and guild ladder.

Why can’t Anet put in a simply guild ladder? Then matchmaking can be based on ladder standings. We need daily and monthly tournaments.

Unranked and Ranked Arenas should be like Random Arenas in GW1. You can join solo, and if you win you can continue till 5…10 wins for more rewards.

MMR: I think this algorythm is too complicated. It’s based on Rank, Profession, Ladder Standings etc. etc., but it seems not working. And i don’t understand, why can’t we see how much is our MMR at the moment.

Double or tripple profession in same team: Can’t you make an algorythm that doesn’t allow to join 2 or more same profession in a team? Then can be all of the games more balanced.

Curren Leaderboard: Terribad, it’s all about grinding, play more matches and you get more points. A Guildladder is needed, not singleplayer ladder.

Torin.7129:

MMR: I think this algorythm is too complicated. It’s based on Rank, Profession, Ladder Standings etc. etc., but it seems not working. And i don’t understand, why can’t we see how much is our MMR at the moment.

because if they showed us, the smart lads would be able to start breaking down the formula. and possible prove its a giant load of kitten dung.

GW2 matchmaking is pretty bad because not many people play this game.

But why aren’t many people playing this game? Because ANET drove many old players away and there’s just too many anti-fun mechanics still such as verticle range and evade attacks and condition damage to an extent.

Justin ODell.9517:

Torin.7129:

Double or tripple profession in same team: Can’t you make an algorythm that doesn’t allow to join 2 or more same profession in a team? Then can be all of the games more balanced.

Looking at the data, the system is actually really good at this, but can be over-shadowed by the new profession dailies. We do not wan’t to put a hard cap on the number because it could greatly increase queue times for the more common professions.

Justin, is there a plan to deal with the negative imp-[act of the profession-specific dailies?

Justin ODell.9517:

Torin.7129:

Double or tripple profession in same team: Can’t you make an algorythm that doesn’t allow to join 2 or more same profession in a team? Then can be all of the games more balanced.

Looking at the data, the system is actually really good at this, but can be over-shadowed by the new profession dailies. We do not wan’t to put a hard cap on the number because it could greatly increase queue times for the more common professions.

Doesn’t look like it to us when solo ques are going up against pre-made teams.

The worst ones to go up against are teams of Mesmers and Thieves, any mix. Then teams of Warriors and Guardians come in second.

Get rid of the Party Que for Un-Ranked PvP. Un-Ranked should remain solo queuing to prevent Pre-Made Teams from farming the solo queuing players. And then isolate the pre-made teams from the solo queuing players in Ranked PvP.

Then maybe we could ALL see the algorithm working the way you say.

Like i said, the problem is meta. There’s usually minimal difference between a premade running guard + engi + ele and a correct level pug having that setup…

If you got a correct setup it’s fine, if you get a crap one and players not reading tactics, you get rolled in both cases. That’s pretty much why many believe they faced premade, because they’re in that situation and lose the match 500-150… But many times it’s simply a pug..

Abazigal.3679:

If you got a correct setup it’s fine, if you get a crap one and players not reading tactics, you get rolled in both cases. That’s pretty much why many believe they faced premade, because they’re in that situation and lose the match 500-150… But many times it’s simply a pug..

or they are not stupid and check to see if the other team is in a party without making an assumption. since it takes all of 2 seconds to check who in the game is in a party and who is not.

i dont think most people get upset when they get rolled by a fellow pug. however, when you right click the other teams name and all 5 are in a party, well then you get irritated, and have 2 possibilities a team of 3 and 2 or 1 team of 5.

personally i dont run into this issue as often as some apparently do, i can understand the frustration. all i can say is learn how to boycott, its the most useful tool to get a company to pay attention, until you effect the money (traffic) flow they will not care. the more people you can get to stop playing spvp and shrink the community to nothing the more likely they’ll un-insert their heads and start doing things that will grow the community not frustrate it even more.

Justin you are saying:

-We don’t want people focus on MMR, and we don’t want people to shame and harass people with lower MMR.

Is this a joke? Everyone want to focus on self MMR. We want to know where are we standing at the moment, the leaderboard doesn’t show it.
Don’t we get matches with people with nearly same MMR? Then why do we want to flame them? It has no sense.

-Double or tripple profession in same team: Looking at the data, the system is actually really good at this, but can be over-shadowed by the new profession dailies. We do not wan’t to put a hard cap on the number because it could greatly increase queue times for the more common professions.

I think increased queue time is much better than unbalanced terrible games. It’s simply not fun to play matches vs 4 engis or with 3 bunker guards. Or give us the option to do something before the match is starting. I mean if i can’t change character, i want to change build. But 1 min isn’t enough. We need trait and skilltemplates to change builds.
Or fix this MMR based matchmaking and do not let the system make double professioned matches.

The problem is the numbers of PvP players. There aren’t enough. You say there are more players than before. Of course, pve players are grinding reward tracks. All of the casual players are already quited, or will quit. I know that money comes from pve players but this is still Guildwars and we want serious PvP. That’s why we PvP players bought the game and that’s why an easier ladder/leaderboard based matchmaking system would be so much better for all of us. Then the leaderboard will show us who are the best players in game, not who are the best grinders in game.
I don’t understand why did Anet start to create a matchmaking system that need to much people to work good. We don’t have that population and people won’t come back, if it stays.

Justin ODell.9517:

Torin.7129:

Justin you are saying:

-We don’t want people focus on MMR, and we don’t want people to shame and harass people with lower MMR.

Is this a joke? Everyone want to focus on self MMR. We want to know where are we standing at the moment, the leaderboard doesn’t show it.
Don’t we get matches with people with nearly same MMR? Then why do we want to flame them? It has no sense.

No joke. I understand you want to see where you stand, and we looking at that. As for why some people do what they do, I have no clue.

Torin.7129:

I think increased queue time is much better than unbalanced terrible games. It’s simply not fun to play matches vs 4 engis or with 3 bunker guards. Or give us the option to do something before the match is starting. I mean if i can’t change character, i want to change build. But 1 min isn’t enough. We need trait and skilltemplates to change builds.
Or fix this MMR based matchmaking and do not let the system make double professioned matches.

I hear you. We’re looking for this sort of feedback. We’ll likely start a thread post season to discuss with the community potential changes.

Visible MMR needs to be a thing if you want a competitive community. The reasoning ‘we don’t people shaming people with low MMR’ makes no sense. MMR doesn’t have to be visible in game, all you need to do is have leaderboards showing MMR of the top 1k people, and everyone elses MMR is only available through the ‘show friends’ or ‘show guild’ system. Make it so you can’t see someone elses MMR unless they have you on their friends list or something like that.

This game needs a real leaderboard that isn’t about who can abuse decay more or who can farm the most games. It needs an actual leaderboard with visible MMR where people can see exactly where they are and how many points they need to surpass others. It’s high time it got that.

Justin ODell.9517:

Torin.7129:

Justin you are saying:

-We don’t want people focus on MMR, and we don’t want people to shame and harass people with lower MMR.

Is this a joke? Everyone want to focus on self MMR. We want to know where are we standing at the moment, the leaderboard doesn’t show it.
Don’t we get matches with people with nearly same MMR? Then why do we want to flame them? It has no sense.

No joke. I understand you want to see where you stand, and we looking at that. As for why some people do what they do, I have no clue.

Torin.7129:

I think increased queue time is much better than unbalanced terrible games. It’s simply not fun to play matches vs 4 engis or with 3 bunker guards. Or give us the option to do something before the match is starting. I mean if i can’t change character, i want to change build. But 1 min isn’t enough. We need trait and skilltemplates to change builds.
Or fix this MMR based matchmaking and do not let the system make double professioned matches.

I hear you. We’re looking for this sort of feedback. We’ll likely start a thread post season to discuss with the community potential changes.

Please work on letting us queue from outside the Hotm before you cause longer queue times please Otherwise it will be very boring to queue.

Also please rework the ready button so if you are in a premade then only 2/5 of the roster has to click ready or something. This way we dont have to sit at our pc so long.

19:50 CET, same 3 player premade as oppents for the third, maybe even fourth time. Why does this occur?

what about just being able to see your own personal MMR?

Justin ODell.9517:

Torin.7129:

MMR: I think this algorythm is too complicated. It’s based on Rank, Profession, Ladder Standings etc. etc., but it seems not working.

This is not correct. We use a slightly modified version of Glicko2.

It’s discussed more in-depth here:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Matchmaking_Algorithm#Ratings

Torin.7129:

And i don’t understand, why can’t we see how much is our MMR at the moment.

We don’t want people focus on MMR, and we don’t want people to shame and harass people with lower MMR.

Torin.7129:

Double or tripple profession in same team: Can’t you make an algorythm that doesn’t allow to join 2 or more same profession in a team? Then can be all of the games more balanced.

Looking at the data, the system is actually really good at this, but can be over-shadowed by the new profession dailies. We do not wan’t to put a hard cap on the number because it could greatly increase queue times for the more common professions.

Why publish win and loss rates then. People near the top of the leaderboards get harassed all the time; especially ppl with lower win rates.

Justin, what have you changed in matchmaking for the new patch?

I have a question on matchmaking, it doesn’t seem to do anything for me. I’m not that good in structured pvp so I usually end up at the bottom almost every time. Sometimes I win because the rest of the team is good, but rarely am I actually much help.

Why isn’t match making system placing me against teams more of my own skill level? Do teams like that even exist? The more I’ve done structured pvp the more I found out that only the really good players actually do it. Which means for newer players learning pvp, it’s entirely a waste of time. There is no reliable methods in game for learning how to get better. Is this something that is actually a concern to you guys? Or are you just waiting for everyone to just reroll turret engineer?

MarkPhilips.5169:

Justin, what have you changed in matchmaking for the new patch?

I’m also interested in hearing this.

The last time I checked, I think my win record in the Unranked Arena was 3 out of 35 or so. It makes sPvP really unpleasant, especially given that my tournament win percentage in the old system was pretty close to 50% (I think). I’m not great, but I didn’t think I was that horrible, and now I walk into each match expecting to be humiliated.

I would have expected to see some more appropriate matches after a while. Is this due to that bug you mentioned that inflated some players’ MMR early on? Because if the system was trying to find me some less skilled teammates in order to compensate, that would explain most of the matches I’ve played.

I wonder, how it’s possible that in last 7 games, when I’ve done 4-3 and lost 10 lb points without disconnects, char switching etc. Even one game was 3v5 (3 in my team, lol)…

Justin ODell.9517:

Morwath.9817:

I wonder, how it’s possible that in last 7 games, when I’ve done 4-3 and lost 10 lb points without disconnects, char switching etc. Even one game was 3v5 (3 in my team, lol)…

It shouldn’t be. The max points from 3 losses would be -9. I’ll take a look.

Update:
I found nothing wrong with your account. Could have it been just an issue with the leaderboard site only updating once an hour?

Then I’m probably just mistaken about value >before< compared to >after<. Sorry for trouble if so.

butch.8136:

^ You decide to play the match or afk?….

Good attitude.

we paid for the game. We have that right. If i want to sit at beach and go fishing… i will.

Michael.9517:

we paid for the game. We have that right. If i want to sit at beach and go fishing… i will.

No. You don’t have the right to ruin the match for your team just because you’re an entitled whiny kid.

Lastdrone.6387:

No. You don’t have the right to ruin the match for your team just because you’re an entitled whiny kid.

People can either AFK or pretend to be trying (“accidentally” jump off the ledges of Skyhammer, random fire the treb at Kyhlo, etc) for the exact same effect. This is why rules that try to “force” effort (especially 100%) are unenforcibly naive at best and ridiculous at worst.

There’s zero practical difference, and no way for ANet to police the latter (people can always claim inexperience or lag). The result is that you have a moral/ethical argument against the act, but very little realistic legal standing.

The ball is in ANet’s court to ensure more people get more balanced matches so this kind of behavior is discouraged proactively, not reactively and not punitively.

Lastdrone.6387:

Michael.9517:

we paid for the game. We have that right. If i want to sit at beach and go fishing… i will.

No. You don’t have the right to ruin the match for your team just because you’re an entitled whiny kid.

Funny everytime I’ve ever called someone whiny on these forums ive been promptly infracted. Not that I don’t fully agree with you.

It has been particularly bad this morning. I kept playing matches hoping that I’d finally be able to end my play time with a win. Nope! Three hours of nothing but losses. I know I suck, but I have at least been able to eke out wins about half the time before. Is there anything that actually adjusts the level of the teams you’re playing against or is it just stuck there until it resets after some amount of time?

Lastdrone.6387:

Michael.9517:

we paid for the game. We have that right. If i want to sit at beach and go fishing… i will.

No. You don’t have the right to ruin the match for your team just because you’re an entitled whiny kid.

Why not? The game is already basically ruined from a pvp perspective due to the last patch.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lastdrone.6387:

Michael.9517:

we paid for the game. We have that right. If i want to sit at beach and go fishing… i will.

No. You don’t have the right to ruin the match for your team just because you’re an entitled whiny kid.

Why not? The game is already basically ruined from a pvp perspective due to the last patch.

this is a game based on teamwork, your decisions affect your teammates. therefore your negative decisions negatively impact other people. if you dont care about that, then your selfish and thats fine, but dont pretend like you are not being selfish…own up to it.
also, if the pvp is ruined why are you still playing? to whine and complain and ruin the game for others? or are you just being a sensationalist?

On topic: matchmaking still sucks. i would rather have more 4v5s then 5v5s with an afk player on autorun.

oneply.9586:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lastdrone.6387:

Michael.9517:

we paid for the game. We have that right. If i want to sit at beach and go fishing… i will.

No. You don’t have the right to ruin the match for your team just because you’re an entitled whiny kid.

Why not? The game is already basically ruined from a pvp perspective due to the last patch.

this is a game based on teamwork, your decisions affect your teammates. therefore your negative decisions negatively impact other people. if you dont care about that, then your selfish and thats fine, but dont pretend like you are not being selfish…own up to it.
also, if the pvp is ruined why are you still playing? to whine and complain and ruin the game for others? or are you just being a sensationalist?

On topic: matchmaking still sucks. i would rather have more 4v5s then 5v5s with an afk player on autorun.

On occasion you might get a good game. But where is the fun to fight pve ers and with pve ers? I dont afk personally, or very very rarely if I have. But I dont blame people for doing it anymore.

Lordrosicky.5813:

oneply.9586:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lastdrone.6387:

Michael.9517:

we paid for the game. We have that right. If i want to sit at beach and go fishing… i will.

No. You don’t have the right to ruin the match for your team just because you’re an entitled whiny kid.

Why not? The game is already basically ruined from a pvp perspective due to the last patch.

this is a game based on teamwork, your decisions affect your teammates. therefore your negative decisions negatively impact other people. if you dont care about that, then your selfish and thats fine, but dont pretend like you are not being selfish…own up to it.
also, if the pvp is ruined why are you still playing? to whine and complain and ruin the game for others? or are you just being a sensationalist?

On topic: matchmaking still sucks. i would rather have more 4v5s then 5v5s with an afk player on autorun.

On occasion you might get a good game. But where is the fun to fight pve ers and with pve ers? I dont afk personally, or very very rarely if I have. But I dont blame people for doing it anymore.

i do. there is no reason to join a match and afk besides to be negative in some fashion. you dont get any points/rewards for doing it unless your team carries you somehow, so what other reason could there be.

i had a guy go afk right from the start last night, he had himself on autorun for 95% of the match. as soon as i told the team they should report him for griefing, he suddenly started moving, game was like 470-80 at that point so it didnt matter at all. but it was like why were you sitting at your comp not making any effort at all until threat of potential punishment was talked about, unless you just wanted to be a kittener.

Matchmaking is a complete lottery now. You can win 1 game and get 0:500 the next game. I’m really not sure how it’s working…

Nothing is more discouraging than trying to do your best to carry your team, but they don’t even know how to rotate.

Ranked arena should have requirements. Unranked should be for all the other PVE heroes getting their dailies.

The only lottery concerns builds. You can’t do anything when you’re teamed all day with mesmers and necros( yourself running full zerker), and being teamed against guard + ele + engis + dps every match, especially on legacy of foefire.

Several matchs we played we lost 500-250 in these situations, but we could have won 500-50 if we all exchanged builds. Players who don’t know how to rotate is a minor fact in my opinion ( and furthermore, it’s not easy to rotate in the situations mentionned above..)

Michael.9517:

butch.8136:

^ You decide to play the match or afk?….

Good attitude.

we paid for the game. We have that right. If i want to sit at beach and go fishing… i will.

You also have the right to be an idiot IRL. It’s a free country. the choices you make, however, define you as a person. If that’s who you want to be, good luck with that.

You are all distracting from the issue.

In pvp in gw2 there are always blow outs. Always bad players. That is all perception.

In fact with the current system I expect theey have close games quite often.

The problem is simply this: The variation in skill between players in the same games is way too high. That is what makes this game unplayable for anyone with even a moderately high rating/skill level.

PvE Johnny shouldn’t be put in a game with pro esports guys. It should never happen. Ever.

Regardless of whether BOTH teams have a PvE failer on their team (and therefor the game is close score-wise). This DOES NOT MATTER AT ALL. What matters is simply the fact that games are ruined by people with too wide skill levels being in the same games.

Don’t try to argue about unbalanced games because anet will just say the stats say otherwise. And that will make them think the REAL issue is not an issue at all. The result is a continuously dead game.

Lordrosicky.5813:

PvE Johnny shouldn’t be put in a game with pro esports guys. It should never happen. Ever.

I agree, even if it make ‘pro esports guys’ wait for their match 30 minutes. Because easy stomp match isn’t different than kitten kitten ing (edit: why it got kittened I’ve no clues) at mists. What is more, current system only reduces PvP population, because ‘PvE Johnny’ won’t try again after getting stomped few times by ‘pro esports guys’, nor ‘pro esports guys’ will consider it fun to stomp him.

Morwath.9817:

Lordrosicky.5813:

PvE Johnny shouldn’t be put in a game with pro esports guys. It should never happen. Ever.

I agree, even if it make ‘pro esports guys’ wait for their match 30 minutes. Because easy stomp match isn’t different than kitten kitten ing (edit: why it got kittened I’ve no clues) at mists. What is more, current system only reduces PvP population, because ‘PvE Johnny’ won’t try again after getting stomped few times by ‘pro esports guys’, nor ‘pro esports guys’ will consider it fun to stomp him.

+1

I have now started apologising for killing the enemy if I’m finding the match too easy.

As I solo que the match ups I have had are well… Awesomely awkward and bad more often than not.

The most interesting ones are like the 10 min match we had and it was close to the end .. 498vs500 or something close. It was absolutely epic.

That one I actually really enjoyed as the skill levels of our team must have been really closely balanced. Although on paper looking at our team we shouldnt have won based on team composition – we did really well (still lost ).

I feel like the higher your mmr gets the more balanced it gets somehow (if you queue solo that is), althrough i can’t deny every 3rd match or so is pretty one sided (regardless win or los)… those are especially boring. I don’t see that many premades when i queue solo and most of them are quite bad tbh so w/e. Different thing is if i queue with 1-3 other players. Facing premades is pretty much garanteed.

Fun fact i keep qing into top 5 all evening while sitting at 300ish myself, but then again you always get max 3 pts for win no matter how amazing enemy team was – which is what wrong with whole system because it doesn’t reward you for winning vs team you should have lost against and doesn’t punish team that should have won (at least based on mmr/rank etc.) but lost.

Also what strikes me odd is that today i been getting class stacked team like 4 thieves, 3 thieves etc. on one team O-o

Justin ODell.9517:

Dixo.3876:

Why publish win and loss rates then. People near the top of the leaderboards get harassed all the time; especially ppl with lower win rates.

Basically… because it was already there. If this is a source of harassment it might be worth looking at replacing or augmenting it with other data.

justin, could you guys consider replace win lose info with average end match team score per game? that might be more relevant. i think.

Ye – the class stacking is absolute rubbish.

Problem is previously as a solo quer I had a 50% win ratio.
Now I’m down to about a 44% win ratio under this new system.

It seems i get on the loosing side more often than not but still manage to prevent point losses where possible.

Check it out : http://www.gw2score.com/PvP/player/TPMN1483

You’ll see long loosing streaks – nothing I can do and a massively varying win/loss ratio often the result of team composition in the solo que form.