Matchmaking not balanced

Matchmaking not balanced

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Matchmaking cannot create balanced matches. It does not happen (i am sitting in games where team is zerging animal, chasing 1 guy somewhere off point etc. while we losing everything, 3 golds vs legends – yeeeeeee balanced matches guizeeee). Alone due to lack of population. So basing rank gains/losses on personal mmr vs avg enemy team MMR is simply stupid, unfair, doesn’t make sense, you name it.

Either make sure that matches are always balanced or fix the rank gain/loss system.

Why should one even queue when you need to win 2-3 games just to make up for 1 loss (it gets worse the more games you play)? This has been going on for 3 seasons now, this is one of the reasons why people quit pvp or exploit the system by tradewinning, queueing at 5am etc.
Rank gain/loss should be based on team mmr vs enemy team mmr because the base (balanced matches) for the current rank gain/loss system simply does NOT exist.

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(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I stopped playing yesterday after two badly unbalanced matches in a row. They were accompanied by the enemy team talking trash. Frustrated players means lower populations and deepening problems.

This is the direct result of the way the seasons have been set up and managed. In particular, the “competitive” deliberately unbalanced matches have been an issue. Now, folks assume a bad match is the matchmaker rather than bad luck.

Sadly, when I look at the new end-of-match screen, it seems that ANET still condones and encourages curb stomps and general non-sportsmanship.

The comparison to current politics in the US is unmistakable.

Mesmerising Girl

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Posted by: Ralkuth.1456

Ralkuth.1456

Some have pointed out the disproportionate gain/loss is fundamentally because we lack the population to properly stratify players into distinct leagues.

In order to not inflate the population above a certain rating, they have adjusted the ratio of gain to loss to be so harsh to maintain the percentage of players they want in each league.

The resulting see-saw of ratings, matched with people way out of your tier, one-sided stomps… it’s because there’s probably like only 500 “srs” people playing for a leaderboard of 250.

A friend of mine has gone from 250+ in core and first few seasons, to 200+ and now 110+ on the NA LB, but he tells me it’s not because he’s got significantly better (he’s always been pretty good), but because a lot of people have evaporated off the top.

5 useless class titles
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty

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Posted by: Ziggityzog.7389

Ziggityzog.7389

90% of the people who I knew that played pvp on a level of daily play seasons 1-4 no longer exist in pvp or gw2 in general. PvP died after season 4 but even seasons 1-4 were a prop up. Anet has yet to fix the issue of circle dancing is not pvp. Yes it was a good concept but instead of having Courtyard die long ago there should have been 5 TDM maps by now because that’s competitive.

Slowly now they are seeing the mistake with a new courtyard and a new 2v2 tdm. A few maps could be converted from dancing in and around circles to the orb of death idea they have now. Since they have to run full 4 season set of this horrible pvp they did this year. we can only hope season 9 is the new and improved pvp we have been waiting for in 2018.

lol’ing at thos who use broken builds and claim to be good since 2005.

|||Necro the masterclass very few know about.|||

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

they can do 2 things 1)abjust the mm system to work with the existing population 2)buff the rewards to get ppl’s attention for pvp. I personally prefer num 2 since if the change the mm ssystem if the game gets a high population at some point the same problems will arise.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

…aaaand i just barely won match (we were something like 250 points behind, the team was obviously worse than enemy, they basically got too full of themself (really filters?) and overcommitted eventually) and got only 10 pts for it but i am sure it would cost me 18+ for losing it. WHERE IS SENSE IN THIS, ANET?

All is Vain~
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Posted by: Mystogan.4157

Mystogan.4157

Ive just come back after a long break, started in silver and ranked to gold in two days solo queing. I had manyragers and toxic players, i ignored them and we even won some of those games. Does the mmr ranking change when i get to a highr rank? I dont see a prob with where im at. I win proll 60%. Im more surprised they havent brought in ctf or tdm in the comp scene… its a shame because this game has alot of potential for a real competitive scene they just dont capitalize on it.

Thy Shall Fear The Reaper (FxRe)

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Posted by: Alatar.7364

Alatar.7364

At least you get to win matches. We get constantly teamed with absolutely clueless people. Win 1 lose 5. And before somebody suggests that: No, it’s not because of our Duo.

~I Aear cân ven na mar

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Ive just come back after a long break, started in silver and ranked to gold in two days solo queing. I had manyragers and toxic players, i ignored them and we even won some of those games. Does the mmr ranking change when i get to a highr rank? I dont see a prob with where im at. I win proll 60%. Im more surprised they havent brought in ctf or tdm in the comp scene… its a shame because this game has alot of potential for a real competitive scene they just dont capitalize on it.

It get really bad in plat and generally as higher you get and the more games you play the less you get and lose more.
As far as gold goes, don’t rely on it. I had like 100% winrate in gold when i landed there for some reason last season.

At least you get to win matches. We get constantly teamed with absolutely clueless people. Win 1 lose 5. And before somebody suggests that: No, it’s not because of our Duo.

That is because i stop playing once i lose a match and usually take a day break. Also weekends, holidays, past 10 pm (CET) etc. are bad for queuing. Last season i almost dropped out of plat because i queued on weekend/holiday – lost weeks of progress in one evening (had to play anyway due to decay and min match requirement).

All is Vain~
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(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

In order to not inflate the population above a certain rating, they have adjusted the ratio of gain to loss to be so harsh to maintain the percentage of players they want in each league.

No, I’m sorry, but no that’s not how it works.

You gain less from winning at higher tiers because you’re typically going to be playing against players worse than you most of the time. If you where to say play against a team comprised entirely of higher rated players you’d gain more from winning then you’d lose from losing.

However if your in or near the top 250 the probability of you encountering a equal or better rated team is very low. And no it’s not a population problem, because the top percentile will always be the top percentile regardless of population size.

Also there are many articles about glicko and matchmaking that can be found with google searches. So there is no excuse for players to keep spouting these fearmongering wives tales.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: Ralkuth.1456

Ralkuth.1456

Also there are many articles about glicko and matchmaking that can be found with google searches. So there is no excuse for players to keep spouting these fearmongering wives tales.

Yeah, I’ll admit I didn’t do my research. Time to read up then.

Edit:

So with your experience at the higher tiers, do you believe the system to be fair in its rating calculations?

I guess the problems with matching players against equal skilled opponents are a separate issue, and related to consumer satisfaction.


There’s a Master’s Dissertation on “Abstracting Glicko-2 for Team Games” which points out the flaws of a Glicko2 system in handling online “team” games played by randomly thrown together players.

He proposes three methods to measure ratings after a game:

1. the naive approach, where an individual player is considered to win against each member of the opposing team individually (which causes large fluctuations of rating despite setting a small volatility constant).

2. average rating of team vs average rating of opposing team (to mitigate “boosting”) – but this was the most inaccurate with the lowest correlation between win rate and higher ranking.

3. individual rating vs average of opposing team – which the author points out as the most accurate.

So team mmr vs team mmr will actually make the rating more inaccurate, at least with what he is claiming.

5 useless class titles
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty

(edited by Ralkuth.1456)

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Posted by: Luci.7018

Luci.7018

So basing rank gains/losses on personal mmr vs avg enemy team MMR is simply stupid, unfair, doesn’t make sense, you name it.

Theres a reason why they removed the grindbased leaderboards of Season 1-3 , because it didnt reflect the actual acomplicements of the true PvPers .
While the may have kept the casuals from enjoying the system , the ACTUAL PvPers where leaving left and right for other games that offered recognision …

Having the best system (curently one) will produce more pros and ultimatly more teams will be created to join the scene .
This PvP scene , will attract like magnet the average casual Joe’s eye , and they will follow the pros on twitch

Why not create the season 7 , based on the same mechanics too ?
So all the 2017 will be the era of TRUE BASED LEADERBOARDS that we will tell on our grandchildren !

On break

(edited by Luci.7018)

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

So basing rank gains/losses on personal mmr vs avg enemy team MMR is simply stupid, unfair, doesn’t make sense, you name it.

Theres a reason why they removed the grindbased leaderboards of Season 1-3 , because it didnt reflect the actual acomplicements of the true PvPers .
While the may have kept the casuals from enjoying the system , the ACTUAL PvPers where leaving left and right for other games that offered recognision …

Having the best system (curently one) will produce more pros and ultimatly more teams will be created to join the scene .
This PvP scene , will attract like magnet the average casual Joe’s eye , and they will follow the pros on twitch

Why not create the season 7 , based on the same mechanics too ?
So all the 2017 will be the era of TRUE BASED LEADERBOARDS that we will tell on our grandchildren !

The system itself is fine, but as i said, the game is not capable of providing fair matches atm. The rank gain/loss system does not take in calculation that you might be handicapped in the match by having teammates divisions below your enemies but you get punished by the system fully because it sees it as fair match of equally ranked players.

All is Vain~
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Posted by: Ralkuth.1456

Ralkuth.1456

The system itself is fine, but as i said, the game is not capable of providing fair matches atm. The rank gain/loss system does not take in calculation that you might be handicapped in the match by having teammates divisions below your enemies but you get punished by the system fully because it sees it as fair match of equally ranked players.

So what they should do is include a variable in the system that takes into account player tier difference (or maybe another one for rank volatility) that would in theory reduce the loss in rating?

5 useless class titles
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

The system itself is fine, but as i said, the game is not capable of providing fair matches atm. The rank gain/loss system does not take in calculation that you might be handicapped in the match by having teammates divisions below your enemies but you get punished by the system fully because it sees it as fair match of equally ranked players.

So what they should do is include a variable in the system that takes into account player tier difference (or maybe another one for rank volatility) that would in theory reduce the loss in rating?

Read my initial post -_-

All is Vain~
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Posted by: Ralkuth.1456

Ralkuth.1456

Read my initial post -_-

I did, and I read a dissertation laying out three options for fixing Glicko rating systems, specifically for team games of few players (5v5), stating them in a post above.

The gist is that the personal vs enemy team method right now is actually the best method to give players an equal experience, with team vs team being inaccurate, and individual vs all individuals on enemy team being improbable.

Given that there’s so much dissatisfaction going around though, would team vs team solve the problem or would it mess up everything but unfair matchups?

5 useless class titles
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty

(edited by Ralkuth.1456)

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Read my initial post -_-

I did, and I read a dissertation laying out three options for fixing Glicko rating systems, specifically for team games of few players (5v5), stating them in a post above.

The gist is that the personal vs enemy team method right now is actually the best method to give players an equal experience, with team vs team being inaccurate, and individual vs all individuals on enemy team being improbable.

Given that there’s so much dissatisfaction going around though, would team vs team solve the problem or would it mess up everything but unfair matchups?

It wouldn’t be as frustrating. It is enough that you are put on team with goldies vs legend players (which shouldn’t be happening on first place), you also get punished at full extend because system assumed it was a fair match. As i said, at some point you come to conclusion – why bother? and quit pvp all together. Just think about it, in other seasons before this system was added people played 300+ matches now they play required 120 and quit.

Once again, the issue with glicko is that it is based on assumption that teams are even which they are not because gw2 pvp community got killed off by poor handling/decisions.

All is Vain~
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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

It wouldn’t be as frustrating. It is enough that you are put on team with goldies vs legend players (which shouldn’t be happening on first place), you also get punished at full extend because system assumed it was a fair match.

Does it?

I played two matches yesterday against top 50 players that easily had 100 rating over me. I won one of those matches, and lost the second. I got +16 rating for the win, and -10 on the loss. Which given the rating discrepancies seems appropriate.

Once again, the issue with glicko is that it is based on assumption that teams are even which they are not because gw2 pvp community got killed off by poor handling/decisions.

No it doesn’t. Glicko does not need good matchmaking to work. Glicko wasn’t even designed with matchmaking in mind. Glicko can work just as well with near random matchmaking.

Also blowouts are actually better for getting accurate rating than close matches. Why? Because in a 100-500 match you can definitively say without any doubt that the winning team is better. But a 499-500 match you don’t have a definitive answer to whether one team is better since that 1 point difference hinges on the tiniest of things. Honestly if you want the most accurate rating possible it’d be better to throw out any match with closer than 50 points, however the playerbase would probably riot if Anet ever did such a thing.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

Also blowouts are actually better for getting accurate rating than close matches. Why? Because in a 100-500 match you can definitively say without any doubt that the winning team is better. But a 499-500 match you don’t have a definitive answer to whether one team is better since that 1 point difference hinges on the tiniest of things. Honestly if you want the most accurate rating possible it’d be better to throw out any match with closer than 50 points, however the playerbase would probably riot if Anet ever did such a thing.

This is just the oposite, blowouts says that winner team is far far better, and just for this is irrelevant for glicko calculations +0 +1 win /loss ratio , a close match says the oposite teams are aprox equal and the rating win loss will be great
ratio will not be rewarded for stomping badlies, will be rewarded for wining close matches

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

It wouldn’t be as frustrating. It is enough that you are put on team with goldies vs legend players (which shouldn’t be happening on first place), you also get punished at full extend because system assumed it was a fair match.

Does it?

I played two matches yesterday against top 50 players that easily had 100 rating over me. I won one of those matches, and lost the second. I got +16 rating for the win, and -10 on the loss. Which given the rating discrepancies seems appropriate.

Once again, the issue with glicko is that it is based on assumption that teams are even which they are not because gw2 pvp community got killed off by poor handling/decisions.

No it doesn’t. Glicko does not need good matchmaking to work. Glicko wasn’t even designed with matchmaking in mind. Glicko can work just as well with near random matchmaking.

Also blowouts are actually better for getting accurate rating than close matches. Why? Because in a 100-500 match you can definitively say without any doubt that the winning team is better. But a 499-500 match you don’t have a definitive answer to whether one team is better since that 1 point difference hinges on the tiniest of things. Honestly if you want the most accurate rating possible it’d be better to throw out any match with closer than 50 points, however the playerbase would probably riot if Anet ever did such a thing.

Lucky you, i have lost matches vs top 5 while having gold teammates and it cost me 2 wins at least. Why do you think it is acceptable? Why do you think it is ok to put people in blow out matches? So if someone is unlucky enough they will be always in blow out matches until they drop to rating where they can solo entire team? Sounds like really crappy system to me that doesn’t reflect player skill at all.

All is Vain~
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Posted by: steelheart.7386

steelheart.7386

They need to enforce strict MMR ranges on teams. You are usually only as good as the weakest player or two on your team. Its is not fair to ask better players to carry weaker players. It is not fair to expect people that know the basics like the back of there hand to play with people that play like they have never conquest before. The idea that you can take two teams and if the MMR average of both is roughly the same that means it will be an ok match does not bare out in reality. I think +100 or -100 MMR range (from your MMR) would be fine. Queue times would increase but I think most would rather have better matches.

(edited by steelheart.7386)

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

They need to enforce strict MMR ranges on teams. You are usually only as good as the weakest player or two on your team. Its is not fair to ask better players to carry weaker players. It is not fair to expect people that know the basics like the back of there hand to play with people that play like they have never conquest before. The idea that you can take two teams and if the MMR average of both is roughly the same that means it will be an ok match does not bare out in reality. I think +100 or -100 MMR range (from your MMR) would be fine. Queue times would increase but I think most would rather have better matches.

The joke is the MMr of both teams in current system is never same. In best case it is like 100+ points difference (usually more). The mean looks even worse. All because it doesn’t look for 10 people of same MMR and then forms teams but rather forms a team of players of similar rating then tried to assemble team of players of similar rating. Problem is, since not enough players play, especially at higher rating, you will have something like high rated paired with whatever else MM can find facing full team of top 10 players.

All is Vain~
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(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: Zalpharx.9235

Zalpharx.9235

-68 in 2 games to 2 high rated duo qs vs one duo q and randoms
current rating 1864

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Top 25 NA S5 Top 10 NA s7

(edited by Zalpharx.9235)

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Posted by: Eddbopkins.2630

Eddbopkins.2630

If I ever see numbers like that, I would just move on to another game like overwatch or some moba that has a decent ranking system.

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Posted by: Ramoth.9064

Ramoth.9064

-68 in 2 games to 2 high rated duo qs vs one duo q and randoms
current rating 1864

I think you needed more initiative.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

-68 in 2 games to 2 high rated duo qs vs one duo q and randoms
current rating 1864

But matchmaking says you should have 1v3’d those upper Gold T3 classes because your Platinum and your mmr is CLEARLY higher than that team’s average… or something… r.i.p
/matchmaking logic since season 4

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Zalpharx.9235

Zalpharx.9235

if it wasn’t clear I meant my duo and 3 randoms vs kat zeromis edison zorh? and a random @saiyan and ramoth

Top 25 NA S5 Top 10 NA s7

(edited by Zalpharx.9235)

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

if it wasn’t clear I meant my duo and 3 randoms vs kat zeromis edison zorh? and a random @saiyan and ramoth

I agree with you completely. I was just being facetious; depicting what Anet’s expectations are of us, throwing out matches like your picture. It’s ridiculous and uncalled for to lose -20 or more on a game that’s 480-500 when the comp was lopsided from the very beginning.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I’m watching my decay pile up. It would be a bigger and faster loss to queue ranked.
The match quality is simply too low to engage.

I believe I’d just be used as cannon fodder to feed matches to high ranked players.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

-68 in 2 games to 2 high rated duo qs vs one duo q and randoms
current rating 1864

You were totally supposed to 500-0 that, man!

All is Vain~
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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

It wouldn’t be as frustrating. It is enough that you are put on team with goldies vs legend players (which shouldn’t be happening on first place), you also get punished at full extend because system assumed it was a fair match.

Does it?

I played two matches yesterday against top 50 players that easily had 100 rating over me. I won one of those matches, and lost the second. I got +16 rating for the win, and -10 on the loss. Which given the rating discrepancies seems appropriate.

Once again, the issue with glicko is that it is based on assumption that teams are even which they are not because gw2 pvp community got killed off by poor handling/decisions.

No it doesn’t. Glicko does not need good matchmaking to work. Glicko wasn’t even designed with matchmaking in mind. Glicko can work just as well with near random matchmaking.

Also blowouts are actually better for getting accurate rating than close matches. Why? Because in a 100-500 match you can definitively say without any doubt that the winning team is better. But a 499-500 match you don’t have a definitive answer to whether one team is better since that 1 point difference hinges on the tiniest of things. Honestly if you want the most accurate rating possible it’d be better to throw out any match with closer than 50 points, however the playerbase would probably riot if Anet ever did such a thing.

Lucky you, i have lost matches vs top 5 while having gold teammates and it cost me 2 wins at least. Why do you think it is acceptable? Why do you think it is ok to put people in blow out matches? So if someone is unlucky enough they will be always in blow out matches until they drop to rating where they can solo entire team? Sounds like really crappy system to me that doesn’t reflect player skill at all.

After 6 seasons I just don’t understand why you care or why you keep going on about this. You were on Frostball’s stream the other day and tbh it just looked like RNG elements and team make up causing the losses/wins. Sometimes you get a ferpect team, other times you get an ele that goes powerful aura vs double condi necro (though PA is better vs power necro and there’s not much way to know before hand).

If the match maker had to deal with pairing up certain classes, accounting for people playing something that isn’t their main, not stacking and the 1001 things you and everyone else keeps asking for no-one would play. It would take 30mins to get a game going which was even remotely balanced by the parameters and most people wouldn’t even bother queuing due to it taking so long.

Remember when Nos couldn’t get into games because his MMR was just that high and matchmaking couldn’t balance him? It would be worse than that.

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

You feel you deserve a 90% win rate instead of 70?

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

It’s not the algorithm’s fault.
It’s match manipulation.
That is why match making feels terrible this season.

Despite what your friends and friends of friends may admit to or not, I’m telling you right now that almost half of the participants this ranked season are running at least one kitten method of match manipulation. The try hards are running them all and since there is no division segregation anymore, that means that we all play together. Thus, no one is able to avoid the match manipulation mole throwing. It will happen to you and if you are a legit player that isn’t partaking in all of this, g’luck. I don’t even mean that in a cliché sense, I mean it literally. Good luck with who’s in your que when you hit that button.

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

@apharma.3741: i care because i still didn’t find a game for pvp (OW is fun and all but gets boring very fast due it being … 100% pvp, i am filthy pve’er as well :|. BNS is too grindy and it had only 1v1 when i played it where i love strategical nature of pvp). I dream (i know pointless, but i do anyone) that one day pvp in this game gets better.
I don’t mind sitting in long queues tbh. Issue is, say i do get quick matches, 5 min queue + 15 min blow out matches x 4 = 1hour 20 min of completely wasted time. On top of it i would have to play even double amount of games to make up for those blow outs so it turns into 4 hours of wasted time. 30 min queue for balanced match suddenly doesn’t sound so bad (my record so far is 1 hour 28 min from other seasons).

@RedCobra.7693: nobody is asking for it. Fact is balanced matches are not possible given current system and population so i ask for at least fair evaluation of the match outcome.

@Trevor Boyer.6524: i am well aware of that but i am not allowed to complain about/mention those issues.

All is Vain~
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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

It’s not the algorithm’s fault.
It’s match manipulation.
That is why match making feels terrible this season.

Despite what your friends and friends of friends may admit to or not, I’m telling you right now that almost half of the participants this ranked season are running at least one kitten method of match manipulation. The try hards are running them all and since there is no division segregation anymore, that means that we all play together. Thus, no one is able to avoid the match manipulation mole throwing. It will happen to you and if you are a legit player that isn’t partaking in all of this, g’luck. I don’t even mean that in a cliché sense, I mean it literally. Good luck with who’s in your que when you hit that button.

Are you NA? im EU and havn’t experience any manipulation at all.

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

It’s not the algorithm’s fault.
It’s match manipulation.
That is why match making feels terrible this season.

Despite what your friends and friends of friends may admit to or not, I’m telling you right now that almost half of the participants this ranked season are running at least one kitten method of match manipulation. The try hards are running them all and since there is no division segregation anymore, that means that we all play together. Thus, no one is able to avoid the match manipulation mole throwing. It will happen to you and if you are a legit player that isn’t partaking in all of this, g’luck. I don’t even mean that in a cliché sense, I mean it literally. Good luck with who’s in your que when you hit that button.

Are you NA? im EU and havn’t experience any manipulation at all.

Queue at 5 am for fun.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I think NOS and Naru and similar players not being able to get a game was a sign that the system was actually working.

Heaven forbid that the elite should be inconvenienced for the good of the vast majority. After all, in this day and age we are seeing the poor oppressed top 0.2 percent finally get all the loving care it deserves.

Clearly, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

Mesmerising Girl

(edited by Ithilwen.1529)

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

I think NOS and Naru and similar players not being able to get a game was a sign that the system was actually working.

Heaven forbid that the elite should be inconvenienced for the good of the vast majority. After all, in this day and age we are seeing the poor oppressed top 0.2 percent finally get all the loving care it deserves.

Clearly, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

That is incredibly selfish and very exclusionary, I would think someone in your position would appreciate what its like to be excluded from something based on who/what you are.

Nos is actually that good, he’s been playing necro long before it was considered good and winning a ton of matches. I believe he has had the highest MMR in the entire game at one point and that was making him wait up to 30mins to even get into blow out games.

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

-shakes head-

OP, this whole thing is rigged. I can’t believe people still even bother with ranked. Ranked is a joke. Tiers and leaderboard mean absolutely nothing. The only people left are the pros, exploiters and the newbies. Veterans and intermediate players are long GONE.

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I think NOS and Naru and similar players not being able to get a game was a sign that the system was actually working.

Heaven forbid that the elite should be inconvenienced for the good of the vast majority. After all, in this day and age we are seeing the poor oppressed top 0.2 percent finally get all the loving care it deserves.

Clearly, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

That is incredibly selfish and very exclusionary, I would think someone in your position would appreciate what its like to be excluded from something based on who/what you are.

Nos is actually that good, he’s been playing necro long before it was considered good and winning a ton of matches. I believe he has had the highest MMR in the entire game at one point and that was making him wait up to 30mins to even get into blow out games.

No, it’s just the opposite. While I appreciate that some players may in fact be “that good”; It harms the game to cater to them. Favoring a small group of players and adjusting the game to them is exclusionary.

I think that ANET would do well to cater to the majority instead. Logic is on my side which is why I sarcastically reversed Spock’s famous dictum: “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

~edit~ I am not unaware of the broader issue you are referring to; The tyranny of the majority. Yes, I am very personally aware of lgbt rights. I don’t find that the argument applies here.

Mesmerising Girl

(edited by Ithilwen.1529)

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

No one is good enough to hold a 90% win rate with no match manipulation in a system that has no division segregation. Anyone who believes that has clearly never played against top/pro players in inhouses and scrims. They aren’t the carry god juggernauts that you believe them to be. It just feels that way when you land on their team in a ranked match and they have someone on an alt throwing on the enemy team.

~ Truth

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: Sauruxum.8472

Sauruxum.8472

However if your in or near the top 250 the probability of you encountering a equal or better rated team is very low. And no it’s not a population problem, because the top percentile will always be the top percentile regardless of population size.

While it’s true that “top percentile is top percentile”, that top percentile is not correctly represented in the leaderboard. A system where legendary tier is the top 2% of players, regardless of rating is a system based on percentiles. The fact that the difference between top 1 and top 10 is more than 200 points is a population issue (and it doesn’t help the fact that top players are playing just enough games to avoid rating decay and not actualy competing).

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

I think NOS and Naru and similar players not being able to get a game was a sign that the system was actually working.

Heaven forbid that the elite should be inconvenienced for the good of the vast majority. After all, in this day and age we are seeing the poor oppressed top 0.2 percent finally get all the loving care it deserves.

Clearly, the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many.

That is incredibly selfish and very exclusionary, I would think someone in your position would appreciate what its like to be excluded from something based on who/what you are.

Nos is actually that good, he’s been playing necro long before it was considered good and winning a ton of matches. I believe he has had the highest MMR in the entire game at one point and that was making him wait up to 30mins to even get into blow out games.

No, it’s just the opposite. While I appreciate that some players may in fact be “that good”; It harms the game to cater to them. Favoring a small group of players and adjusting the game to them is exclusionary.

I think that ANET would do well to cater to the majority instead. Logic is on my side which is why I sarcastically reversed Spock’s famous dictum: “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

~edit~ I am not unaware of the broader issue you are referring to; The tyranny of the majority. Yes, I am very personally aware of lgbt rights. I don’t find that the argument applies here.

The thing is this system provides most players with games to play on a regular basis. That is what the system is supposed to do, generate games that are at least roughly equal without making people wait for half an hour. Now it can’t always make a game that is equal but that has everything to do with the game mode being dead and having lost a very large number of players since season 5.

I was making the point that having been on the bad end of a majority rule I find it very hypocritical of you to now turn round and essentially say eff the X% at the top and bottom who would have to wait an excessively long time for matches.

That’s without pointing out that changes to the matchmaker probably wouldn’t make it much better with such a low population or that you personally will never be happy as you have complained every single season about multiple things which were clearly not a systems issue.

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

No one is good enough to hold a 90% win rate with no match manipulation in a system that has no division segregation. Anyone who believes that has clearly never played against top/pro players in inhouses and scrims. They aren’t the carry god juggernauts that you believe them to be. It just feels that way when you land on their team in a ranked match and they have someone on an alt throwing on the enemy team.

~ All False

Fixed it for you

Sindrener has next to a 90% win rate and i’ve watched all his games, every game he plays to win and queues with a pro mesmer (best duo for thief) to ensure he has the best possible matches. considering thief has amazing oppurtunities to carry when played right even more so in duo with mes its not surprising that he wins.

not only that if you watch you’ll actually see how much better these top players really are compared to you

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

@apharma.3741: i care because i still didn’t find a game for pvp (OW is fun and all but gets boring very fast due it being … 100% pvp, i am filthy pve’er as well :|. BNS is too grindy and it had only 1v1 when i played it where i love strategical nature of pvp). I dream (i know pointless, but i do anyone) that one day pvp in this game gets better.
I don’t mind sitting in long queues tbh. Issue is, say i do get quick matches, 5 min queue + 15 min blow out matches x 4 = 1hour 20 min of completely wasted time. On top of it i would have to play even double amount of games to make up for those blow outs so it turns into 4 hours of wasted time. 30 min queue for balanced match suddenly doesn’t sound so bad (my record so far is 1 hour 28 min from other seasons).

@RedCobra.7693: nobody is asking for it. Fact is balanced matches are not possible given current system and population so i ask for at least fair evaluation of the match outcome.

@Trevor Boyer.6524: i am well aware of that but i am not allowed to complain about/mention those issues.

What would you be doing in those 30-60 mins waiting and everyone else? Nothing mostly unless you choose to queue in a PvE map and map it, even then it’s finite. I guess you can fight in the new PvP lobby but even that has its limits. At least in this current match maker you have something to do during that time, 2-3 matches. They also aren’t always blow out matches and even the blow outs are in your favour as often as they’re against you in MMR so they don’t take that much from you.

From your own screenshot you had 3 blow out matches 1 was a defeat and 2 were a victory for you and most matches were done in 10mins. The rest no-one can really say how one sided it was or wasn’t without seeing.

Needless to say do you really think waiting 60 mins will actually generate a better game? I don’t because the player pool has decreased so much and there’s too many variables to consider like team comp, player skill on class, skill on map, grudges people hold and various other petty things like “I afk if I see feef”. There’s also some people stream sniping and throwing games in the process by doing really stupid stuff.

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Posted by: Kokoro.8437

Kokoro.8437

No, it’s just the opposite. While I appreciate that some players may in fact be “that good”; It harms the game to cater to them. Favoring a small group of players and adjusting the game to them is exclusionary.

I think that ANET would do well to cater to the majority instead. Logic is on my side which is why I sarcastically reversed Spock’s famous dictum: “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.”

~edit~ I am not unaware of the broader issue you are referring to; The tyranny of the majority. Yes, I am very personally aware of lgbt rights. I don’t find that the argument applies here.

You’ve been crying about matchmaking every day of every season of PvP for the last 2 years.

Anet isn’t “catering” to anyone. The fact of the matter is that Anet can only provide equality of opportunity. Not equality of outcome.

The other fact of the matter is that some people are simply better at certain things than others.

Some people have messed up hands. Other people naturally have 300APM.

The fact of the matter is that 9/10 times the person with 300 APM will outperform the player who can’t even achieve 10APM due to their hand condition, even in the act of simply typing up a word document.

There is very little anet can do unless you somehow improve your own play.

Miyoshinono, Yama no Akikaze Sayofukete, Furusato Samuku, Koromo Utsu Nari.

(edited by Kokoro.8437)

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Posted by: Tyrion.9015

Tyrion.9015

These posts prove that GW2’s PVP was a BIG, BIG. mistake.
If you are reading this (ofc not), you still have a chance Anet.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

not ment to work well, its ment fot the pvp’ers be “clever” or not give importance to pvp at all.

Game is all about pve, pvp just existed for maketing reasons, can u guys imagine a mmo w/o pvp…?

Cause that saddens me ANet doing everything based on pve choices, it was what made gw2 reach this state…
And they will keep enforcing it instead of fix it….

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: ugrakarma.9416

ugrakarma.9416

It’s not the algorithm’s fault.
It’s match manipulation.
That is why match making feels terrible this season.

Despite what your friends and friends of friends may admit to or not, I’m telling you right now that almost half of the participants this ranked season are running at least one kitten method of match manipulation. The try hards are running them all and since there is no division segregation anymore, that means that we all play together. Thus, no one is able to avoid the match manipulation mole throwing. It will happen to you and if you are a legit player that isn’t partaking in all of this, g’luck. I don’t even mean that in a cliché sense, I mean it literally. Good luck with who’s in your que when you hit that button.

Are you NA? im EU and havn’t experience any manipulation at all.

Queue at 5 am for fun.

yeah, i play many differents timezones, and noticed this.

In the previous season, it was remarkable a certain level of skill in the silver. This time it was very strange, I’m silver, but taking matches with people who do not understand the basics of the maps.

This gets worse in certain TMZ.

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Posted by: RedCobra.7693

RedCobra.7693

It’s not the algorithm’s fault.
It’s match manipulation.
That is why match making feels terrible this season.

Despite what your friends and friends of friends may admit to or not, I’m telling you right now that almost half of the participants this ranked season are running at least one kitten method of match manipulation. The try hards are running them all and since there is no division segregation anymore, that means that we all play together. Thus, no one is able to avoid the match manipulation mole throwing. It will happen to you and if you are a legit player that isn’t partaking in all of this, g’luck. I don’t even mean that in a cliché sense, I mean it literally. Good luck with who’s in your que when you hit that button.

Are you NA? im EU and havn’t experience any manipulation at all.

Queue at 5 am for fun.

yeah, i play many differents timezones, and noticed this.

In the previous season, it was remarkable a certain level of skill in the silver. This time it was very strange, I’m silver, but taking matches with people who do not understand the basics of the maps.

This gets worse in certain TMZ.

Trust me, the only tier where the skill level is consistently better is legend. im in plat atm with druid. being druid means you have to often take those 1v1’s which leaves your team to 4v4, <<< right there. that reason. it turns to a 50-50 fight win ratio if you average out every single game, meaning that the quicker i win that 1v1 and help my team the faster i can +1 and turn it into a 70-30

Its this kind of mentality of placing yourself into winning scenarios such as taking rotations or your match-up in account that doesn’t really come into play until legend. its luck what i get on my team so i need to give them the best possible chance of winning. people who usually just say “im losing because of bad teammates all the time” are very likely the players that dont understand these concepts.

RedCobra – Ranked PVP Druid
Current Season – Platinum (Soloq)
Retired GW2 ESL Tournament Admin