Guild Wars 2

They do it to drum up business for gw2 = more people playing = a greater return then 200k = more investment.

vesica tempestas.1563:

They do it to drum up business for gw2 = more people playing = a greater return then 200k = more investment.

I fully understand why they do it. I am just saying that money allocated to other advertising outlets and well anything at this point would probably go a lot further any place else. It really doesn’t seem like it is taking off or it even will in any near future. They simply have not made this a good set up for Esports. I mean all it would take is for a interested person to come to the forums or reddit (if they even make it that far. lets be honest the kitten looks insanely boring watching other people, and even playing it is in this meta) and they will walk away. Like I said I love pvp in mmos and that is the main reason I play them but this really seems like a wasted thing here. How can you have a competitive game but not punish those purposely abusing the system or purposely trolling games?

Do you know how much they spent on it?

You can’t sell an esport, ever. It either grows from grass roots or it doesn’t. It certainly doesn’t grow from “dailies and gtfo”.

laokoko.7403:

Do you know how much they spent on it?

Why is that relevant? Why ask stupid questions? They should not be throwing money at some thing and promoting some thing that is so far from what it should be is what I am saying. How is it money well spent when you are paying people who abuse your system and farm lower mmr players? How is it money well spent when the kitten is hardly viewed and the Esports community could care less about GW2 pvp?

When that one team rage quit few week ago during match was great PvP advertisement.

At the end of the day, ANet’s a business. If the eSports investment really is doing that badly, then they’ll cut it; that they haven’t yet either means they’re seeing growth that justifies continued investment or it’s doing much better than you think it is.

Early success in a business can also create greed and may allow funding for foolish future investments/ventures which ultimately take the business down. I think the OP is pointing at that esports is just not working out. Cut the losses short and focus on your core game that allowed the funding for such ventures to begin with.

What do you think the marketing budget would be better spent on? Pop-ups? Magazine pages?

The budget for esports needs to be justified and cleared by the company executives, it will be bringing in money.

The pvp championships are an event that brings attention to the game in a way that gives the players something to talk about and shows off the gameplay far better than a few more adverts (thats where the money would be spent if not on esports btw, not some magical new content tree).

Pandaman.4758:

At the end of the day, ANet’s a business. If the eSports investment really is doing that badly, then they’ll cut it; that they haven’t yet either means they’re seeing growth that justifies continued investment or it’s doing much better than you think it is.

That might not be true.
It looks like someone at Anet is trying to push it even though it just doesn’t work well.
It often looks like they realize how the scene looks, but try to push it more and more, coming out with new things…
I mean, look at some esports games and at the whole scene. There’s tons of money and there will be much much more in the future. Why wouldn’t you try anything you can to support your game in this field?
Oh wait, we know why.

Anet already said the ROI on the esports investments has been huge. So you’re just wrong.

Coulter.2315:

What do you think the marketing budget would be better spent on? Pop-ups? Magazine pages?

The budget for esports needs to be justified and cleared by the company executives, it will be bringing in money.

The pvp championships are an event that brings attention to the game in a way that gives the players something to talk about and shows off the gameplay far better than a few more adverts (thats where the money would be spent if not on esports btw, not some magical new content tree).

Why not just by ads on MTV, Nickelodeon, and Cartoon Network? That should raise awareness of the game.

Agemnon.4608:

Coulter.2315:

What do you think the marketing budget would be better spent on? Pop-ups? Magazine pages?

The budget for esports needs to be justified and cleared by the company executives, it will be bringing in money.

The pvp championships are an event that brings attention to the game in a way that gives the players something to talk about and shows off the gameplay far better than a few more adverts (thats where the money would be spent if not on esports btw, not some magical new content tree).

Why not just by ads on MTV, Nickelodeon, and Cartoon Network? That should raise awareness of the game.

TV adverts are very expensive, even WoW only advertises on TV for a very short period of time when it has an expansion coming out.

I don’t give a flying fig about eSports, but I also have almost no data on what they’re spending and what effect it’s having on sales. Even armchair quarterbacks know more about the team they’re pontificating about than almost any player of this game knows about ANet’s financial picture. So it makes no sense to declare it a “waste” just because you yourself think eSports shouldn’t be funded.

I do, however, want to thank you for properly spelling it. The derisive “eSperts” removes credibility from anyone who uses it, imo.

eSports can be nice if they use it for balance the game. I don’t think it’s bad for the game.

I’m sure that your amazing insight into the business and marketing strategies of ArenaNet, as well as your years of experience in said fields in similar companies, as well as your master’s degree in said fields and your overall intelligence will be taken into account when their next meeting regarding goals and funding is held.

Or, hey, maybe let’s let the marketing and business development teams figure out what to spend money on without criticizing everything they do.

Just a thought.

inb4 tl;dr response coppled with “i have a masters in business and marketing and i work in this field” out of your parents’ basement.

The push to esports along with P4F was done to bring in new players to at least try the game in hopes that some P4F would convert to full versions of the game as well as purchase gems.

As for advertising I see a whole lot of HoT ads on game sites and YouTube. This isn’t like Clash of Clans or Candy Crush bringing in a $1 million a day in sales and can do TV spots on major networks or sporting events.

Acheron.5193:

I’m sure that your amazing insight into the business and marketing strategies of ArenaNet, as well as your years of experience in said fields in similar companies, as well as your master’s degree in said fields and your overall intelligence will be taken into account when their next meeting regarding goals and funding is held.

Or, hey, maybe let’s let the marketing and business development teams figure out what to spend money on without criticizing everything they do.

Just a thought.

inb4 tl;dr response coppled with “i have a masters in business and marketing and i work in this field” out of your parents’ basement.

Acheron.#### where did you derive that name from? just curious

Also, many people would be quite surprised what degrees and insights many people that play this game actually have. I am not saying “everyone” posting here is an expert about “said” posts, yet many are far more qualified than you would find on a game forum 10 years ago.

Pandaman.4758:

At the end of the day, ANet’s a business. If the eSports investment really is doing that badly, then they’ll cut it; that they haven’t yet either means they’re seeing growth that justifies continued investment or it’s doing much better than you think it is.

There has been a lot of delusional and arrogant developers/businessmen in the gaming industry. As someone who used to work production for a few North American Esport companies such as NASL back in 2010, it’s a very risk investment.

Especially for a game that has a very low Pvp player base and the fact MMOS are the least competitive and popular in the Esport scene.

It really does feel some aspects of guild wars 2 have been neglected, with focus on marketing Spvp as an Esport.

I have nothing against a company trying to expand and improve their product by branching out in different areas, but the way Anet has been going about things as of late seem to bring more negative aspects to the game than positive. Structured pvp is in its worst state it has ever been in.

I seen companies lose and waste money trying to make their game something that it’s not and ignore their customers complaints.

Again I love Guild Wars 2 and still have fun in it, but you can’t deny that across all boards players are frustrated, especially the state of WVW which has always had a much larger population than structured pvp. Ignoring the majority to cater to the minority is never a smart business decision when it comes to MMOs.

Khyan.7039:

eSports can be nice if they use it for balance the game. I don’t think it’s bad for the game.

Except they don’t have any infrastructure in game for a successful competitive game mode, bugs not fixed since launch, worse state of balance in the entire 3 years of gw2, the list goes on.

Not to mention they allow their so called “pro players” (lol) exploit game mechanics, harass people in game, ect. Arena Net won’t take action against them, because they are the ones marketing their product. The whole thing is just a big mess.

Lucifer.7289:

Pandaman.4758:

At the end of the day, ANet’s a business. If the eSports investment really is doing that badly, then they’ll cut it; that they haven’t yet either means they’re seeing growth that justifies continued investment or it’s doing much better than you think it is.

There has been a lot of delusional and arrogant developers/businessmen in the gaming industry. As someone who used to work production for a few North American Esport companies such as NASL back in 2010, it’s a very risk investment.

Especially for a game that has a very low Pvp player base and the fact MMOS are the least competitive and popular in the Esport scene.

It really does feel some aspects of guild wars 2 have been neglected, with focus on marketing Spvp as an Esport.

I have nothing against a company trying to expand and improve their product by branching out in different areas, but the way Anet has been going about things as of late seem to bring more negative aspects to the game than positive. Structured pvp is in its worst state it has ever been in.

I seen companies lose and waste money trying to make their game something that it’s not and ignore their customers complaints.

Again I love Guild Wars 2 and still have fun in it, but you can’t deny that across all boards players are frustrated, especially the state of WVW which has always had a much larger population than structured pvp. Ignoring the majority to cater to the minority is never a smart business decision when it comes to MMOs.

Be careful, because people will just think you said that out of your parents’ basement.

Harny.6012:

Lucifer.7289:

Pandaman.4758:

At the end of the day, ANet’s a business. If the eSports investment really is doing that badly, then they’ll cut it; that they haven’t yet either means they’re seeing growth that justifies continued investment or it’s doing much better than you think it is.

There has been a lot of delusional and arrogant developers/businessmen in the gaming industry. As someone who used to work production for a few North American Esport companies such as NASL back in 2010, it’s a very risk investment.

Especially for a game that has a very low Pvp player base and the fact MMOS are the least competitive and popular in the Esport scene.

It really does feel some aspects of guild wars 2 have been neglected, with focus on marketing Spvp as an Esport.

I have nothing against a company trying to expand and improve their product by branching out in different areas, but the way Anet has been going about things as of late seem to bring more negative aspects to the game than positive. Structured pvp is in its worst state it has ever been in.

I seen companies lose and waste money trying to make their game something that it’s not and ignore their customers complaints.

Again I love Guild Wars 2 and still have fun in it, but you can’t deny that across all boards players are frustrated, especially the state of WVW which has always had a much larger population than structured pvp. Ignoring the majority to cater to the minority is never a smart business decision when it comes to MMOs.

Be careful, because people will just think you said that out of your parents’ basement.

Ignorant people can think whatever they wish. Reddit/forums in general are filled with self hating individuals looking to make themselves feel better by taking shots at random people on the internet.

How about you come up with a better insult, use your brain yeah?

We all known esports is a joke but we’re not supposed to talk negative about the game on the forums, It’ll get you banned. It’s best to just ignore it ^^

Robert Devine.3087:

Does anyone else agree that spending as much resources they do on an aspect of the game the clearly are failing at is a waste? The money could be spent in other places, sad to say because I joined this game for pvp but they are really blowing it. Pro players manipulating matches, tt is hardly watched by anyone, they refuse to do anything about purposeful trolling. I am sorry but this is not Esports not even close.

Disagree entirely.

GW2 can be an esport. It won’t ever be the scale of SC2, LoL, DoTA2, CS:GO. But it doesn’t need to be. Right now there’s there’s a void for MMORPG in the esport arena, and has been ever since MLG dropped WoW’s arena’s.

Onto the cost point, it’s a foolish assumption to think that what minor spending they are doing on esports is ruining the game. Lets break this down into two parts for sanity sake money spent and ruining the game. The money being fronted for esports in only being done in part, with larger more prominent organizations taking the lead ESL/Twitch/Intel/Alienware/BenQ and Khongzhong are all working sponsors in this endeavor. They help cover most if not all event cost, with Anet putting up likely less than half of the monetary investment.

Now onto ruining the game. It’s a foolish notion to think esports is solely responsible for the decline of production quality/QA. Instead it’s far more likely that the people leaving the company caused this. We already know of several former leads leaving, people who worked on core systems or were prominent within the community for communicating and iterating on player feedback.

However if you wish to ignore all the changes and want to focus on one aspect because the tin foil hat commands you, then sure blame esports since it’s the only buzzword people seem to cling too right now.

All the best builds since HoT came out have been HoT builds. Hiding pvp behind a paywall isn’t the best idea. The f2p switch would have been a good time for them to let the core builds be as viable in PvP as the HoT builds and they could have sold the Elite Specs a la carte to players for PvP use. That would have been the way to go. They also should have had 2 Elite Specs be available for free each week on a rotation so that players could play them(just like MOBAs do with heroes/gods/characters etc.).

Just like someone above said, you can’t call your game e-sports. Players decide that. It’s been three plus years. That ship has sailed. I personally have loved the PvP in this game at different times. I do however think they mishandled Elite specs as it pertains to PvP.

I have little to no faith in GW2 as an “eSport”. It seems like a sick joke to me, or some strange vanity from one of the top devs.

What I DO have faith in, however, is ANet’s greed and willingness to forsake parts of the game that don’t live up to all their expectations. If they’re still pushing the eSports angle, then it must be giving them a decent return. Otherwise, it would be as dead and buried as the Personality system.

Qugi.2653:

When that one team rage quit few week ago during match was great PvP advertisement.

Oh, I’ve not heard this story! Please Sir, may I have some details?

Let’s hope, OP, the Devs don’t consider your viewpoint, or WvW would be removed from the game, as it is certainly ‘failing’ right now, according to some. Same with expansions, again, according to some.

Akkeros.1675:

Acheron.5193:

I’m sure that your amazing insight into the business and marketing strategies of ArenaNet, as well as your years of experience in said fields in similar companies, as well as your master’s degree in said fields and your overall intelligence will be taken into account when their next meeting regarding goals and funding is held.

Or, hey, maybe let’s let the marketing and business development teams figure out what to spend money on without criticizing everything they do.

Just a thought.

inb4 tl;dr response coppled with “i have a masters in business and marketing and i work in this field” out of your parents’ basement.

Acheron.#### where did you derive that name from? just curious

Also, many people would be quite surprised what degrees and insights many people that play this game actually have. I am not saying “everyone” posting here is an expert about “said” posts, yet many are far more qualified than you would find on a game forum 10 years ago.

First, Homer.

Second, I agree, I’m sure there’s lots of people playing games that have somewhat relevant degrees, but we’ll agree to disagree on the insight part. Especially reddit.

However, throwing a thread up on a forum about the “clear state of the failing game” without having any financial data, background data nor any insight whatsoever into the company, shows only one thing: You have no idea what you’re on about. Hence the basement remark. If the OP was really involved in a game company at a higher level, he/she would know there’s more to it than shelling out a few bucks for promoting one part of the game that is obviously getting attention and it would be downright asinine to assume it has no ROI.

Edit:

Third: To get in before the tide, no I do not and have never worked in a gaming company or anything similar. I work at a PR firm. I just employed common sense.

My sentiments exactly. You have a portion of the game that people love and enjoy and is paying your bills but instead of keeping them happy you chase after a much smaller segment of your playerbase kittenimn off your core market in the process. Learn from FFXIV figure out what is making you money and stick with it. FFXIV don’t give a crap about no arenas its in the game but they aren’t dumb after 1.0s failure they know now to keep their fans happy which in that game is dungeons. There is a huge hole in the market for wvw players that guild wars could be eating it but instead they let all those players walk away unadressed so they can chase after arenas. Just stick to pve expacs and wvw and call it a day. It’s like taking your wife’s money and spending it on another woman what anet is doing.

psyt.9415:

My sentiments exactly. You have a portion of the game that people love and enjoy and is paying your bills but instead of keeping them happy you chase after a much smaller segment of your playerbase kittenimn off your core market in the process. Learn from FFXIV figure out what is making you money and stick with it. FFXIV don’t give a crap about no arenas its in the game but they aren’t dumb after 1.0s failure they know now to keep their fans happy which in that game is dungeons. There is a huge hole in the market for wvw players that guild wars could be eating it but instead they let all those players walk away unadressed so they can chase after arenas. Just stick to pve expacs and wvw and call it a day. It’s like taking your wife’s money and spending it on another woman what anet is doing.

I think you’ve mixed up 2 (possibly more) issues;
1) a marketing budget for tPvP tournament
2) WvW new borderland wasn’t popular
If anet didn’t spend money on a PvP tournament (for marketing purposes) do you think 2) gets solved by a wizard?

If it brings in new players like a few people here said, then what figures do you have to back that up? I never met or heard about anyone that plays Guild Wars 2 because the competitive PvP aspect drew them to it.

I agree with the op, I do not see this actively helping Arena Net and perhaps if anything is wasting more money than it is making. WvW and PvP is part of the game and should be supported, but the push for e-sports specifically is a fruitless endeavour, just look at the viewing figures.

It possibly qualifies them for more government funding too, Charmed (the tv series about the witch sisters) had a bar in it called P3 which had real life pop stars playing a song in it each week – this let them qualify for “Variety Show” funding or tax breaks I can’t remember which.

You can;t say that something a company has done 3 years in a row and increased the prize pool of is “fruitless” you have no idea how it works into the system.

vesica tempestas.1563:

They do it to drum up business for gw2 = more people playing = a greater return then 200k = more investment.

That may be the intantion, but it isn’t working at all. Half of my Guild has left the game and has not come back not even for HoT (me included). GW2s problem lead to people joining other games, WS has become F2P, ToR got a really good story based addon (well, not really mmorpg anymore) and now B&S is fishing the people who wanted Cantha since Day 1.

Anet seriously needs to get their heads together and just drop the whole eSports thing and should focus on a way longer Addon Story (not this LS episode nonesense) and on the WvWvW, because lets face it: the game looses so many people because they did nearly nothing for the WvWvW community…

If i made some gramma mistakes iam sorry, English is not my first language. :*

Your not listening, if esports was not working they would not do it. estimated 6 million revenue per month.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Your not listening, if esports was not working they would not do it. estimated 6 million revenue per month.

Look if you throw figures around at least throw around the figures Arena Net actually make.

You need to try something to realize that it does not work, we are at the point where they should be realizing it is not working.

Ipso facto, and the figures are readily available.

As someone else said, how would you spend a marketing budget for a mmorpg?

Colin Johanson sez:

From a marketing standpoint, it (and the ESL weekly cups and WTS tournaments before it) has been extremely successful so far, among the most successful projects our marketing team has ever launched to grow our title in the history of the Guild Wars franchise in return for the cost. If you don’t like it more power to you, don’t watch, but it’s absolutely helping our marketing folks make Gw2 a bigger game which I’d hope we’re all excited about. If you want to see the game fail I’m not sure what you’re doing here, but rooting against programs like pro league is basically rooting against Gw2 growing. When folks come here and rip on stuff like PvP, you’re basically hurting the games ability to grow – and personally I would say shame on you, if you truly love the game, be constructive and give awesome feedback and suggestions: but don’t knock it just cause it’s not PvE. And let’s be honest, it beats spending marketing funds on taxi confession ads or people spray painting wall cinematics if you ask me.

Opinions may vary, of course, but I think Colin is in a better position to determine the value and cost-effectiveness of GW2’s eSports initiative than anyone here.

…

Full Disclosure: I have no personal interest in eSports, whether GW2 or anything else, but for those who do, more power to you.

And there we have it.

vesica tempestas.1563:

Ipso facto, and the figures are readily available.

As someone else said, how would you spend a marketing budget for a mmorpg?

Show me, vaguely saying it is out there means very little. How would I spend the marketing budget? I would move the money to development and relocate the people in marketing to other departments.

E-sports is like Formula 1, you can not grab your family car do a few laps and expect to get on the podium. Arena Net may have a sports car but it is not going to come anywhere near first. They are seeking something elusive that they can not obtain and in doing so they are wasting time, energy and money.

ArenaNet has constructed gw2 to be a pve game, not pvp. Just look at how the game is built up from the ground, it’s with pve in mind. What content gets constant feedback, development, upgrades and fixes.
While wvw and spvp sits around with broken content, lacking development, promises of fixes that never happens and a management that doesn’t have pvp in focus.
This have been pointed out on numerous times during the years and it still hasn’t been improved.

To create a real E-Sports environment, you need hardcore players to stand at the top to bring in more players to pvp, by streaming and what not. If you create an environment where a hardcore player gets punished everywhere he/she goes and no carrot to keep him/her interested. Of course he/she will leave.

So no, ArenaNet doesn’t focus on the hardcore players that have the ability to create a real interest for E-Sports. You need the players for it to happen. Without them, you just got content that nobody really cares about. Currently it’s more like, I do my daily and do something else. That’s not how pvp should be tbh.

Considering that most of the really hardcore pvp mmo players haven’t even bothered with GW2, and those that have, are getting quite tired of the same treatment over and over. Esports will never happen in GW2. It’s a few years to late and most people have given up on it happening.

It is just way of advertisement not actually trying to fit into e-sport.

If they spent 1/20th the esports money on bugfixing WvW, maybe we’ll get it working properly in 6 months or so!

Money should be spend for developers to come up with something to fix FPS drop in huge events.
When there are 100 players on some boss, your FPS will drop below 60, even if you have octa R9 390X or GTX Titan + i7-5960X.
Invest money in DirectX update + general game performance optimisation.

Unfortuantely, Esports is a big thing and some games are extremely popular which I don’t get. But there’s a lot of money to make. GW2 never achieved that and they are trying and trying. I understand why, though I think it’s too late/won’t ever happen. It remains a niche, GW2 will never achieve a popularity WoW had in the late 2000s or what Dota 2 and LoL is now.

Coulter.2315:

What do you think the marketing budget would be better spent on? Pop-ups? Magazine pages?

Seriously? Jumping/gliding/exploration races, GW2 themed LARPing, live raid playthroughs with commentary . . .

As for esports, it’s the same as casuals asking pros in established esports whether it’s worth to leave school / work and focus on becoming a pro. The answer is almost universally the same – if you are already placing in tournaments, sure, go for it. Otherwise, back to work.

Same with building a new esport – if your community is already hosting tournaments, if the game itself is worth competing in, great. If not, focus on the game until it is. You can’t buy the drive to be the best.

I’m also not interested in esports but, esports are a big thing and anet are entitled to dip their toe into the water. Maybe it will turn out to be a waste of time and money. Maybe it will be the saviour of the game and go on to support a lifetime of GW development across all game modes.

From a business viewpoint I think it is something they have to try. Even if it is not a success it may well pave the way for a successful sequel or spin-off game.

Either way, it’s really not our call to make.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Unfortuantely, Esports is a big thing and some games are extremely popular which I don’t get.

There are quite a few reasons that moba games and strategy games hold the main content of which is E-Sports these days.

The main reason in my book however, is that it holds a large content of players that wants to become the best. This breeds a hardcore environment for players at the top that can call themselves the best.

The question that we can ask ourselves is, why do they hold these players and why do these players get this feeling from playing their games?

One of the main aspects that I feel is a factor, is the fact that one game of moba, isn’t like the other, the skill cap can be quite high, while it’s still really easy to become decent, regardless of the type of “class” you play, you can benefit your team in some way. This keeps the players interested regardless of what skill level they are on.
There is a high versatility between each game because of these roles and each face off. Because everything comes down to strategy, quick thinking and how you handle each situation. Which can make to some really sick plays.

I don’t play any strategy games or moba myself. So others should probably correct me. But those games have the real pvp feeling that gw2 doesn’t. GW2 is quite boring when being compared in terms of team pvp or strategy.
In Wvw, the biggest zerg usually wins, there isn’t much strategy anymore as most of the hardcore wvw guilds have left the game. It’s more a game type of flipping towers and supply posts more than actual pvp..
Spvp, well, let’s just say that there is a reason that quite a few of the high end teams have quit the game. Balance issues.. The league, I won’t even start..

The main issue however, Is that GW2 isn’t based on pvp. So we have large issues with spec lines which are mostly based on pve rather than pvp. So our specs become the so called “Meta” specs, because the other specs, simply cannot perform.

So instead of having a very high amount of choices between awesome specs for each class, we are stuck with 1-3 specs that is pretty much must have. Imagine if every spec line we had, could compete with the rest. That there are so many good and awesome choices between each spec, that you want everything, but can’t. Now that would be fun to try out.

In gw2, we have classes in pvp that you simply cannot play at a higher level, because they just can’t perform up to task. Because balance issues are again interfered by pve.

So the play style depends so much on the meta and correct setup it’s sad, rather than individual skill, which is where it should be.

Robert Devine.3087:

Does anyone else agree that spending as much resources they do on an aspect of the game the clearly are failing at is a waste? The money could be spent in other places, sad to say because I joined this game for pvp but they are really blowing it. Pro players manipulating matches, tt is hardly watched by anyone, they refuse to do anything about purposeful trolling. I am sorry but this is not Esports not even close.

200k usd is not that much for a company and you need to look long term benefits it will bring to the game.

I have played Hearthstone, HotS and LoL and i think Gw2 pvp could be there too, you just need a good marketing, the game is already good enought to get there.

just an idea, i think they could add like a twitch stream with a prize in $$ for killing a raid boss like Kerafyrm the Sleeper from EverQuest, not just pvp but also a massive pve event.

Esports budget comes from the funds allocated for marketing as far as I remember so it’s not taking away from development resources.