Guild Wars 2

Agreed with jake, you don’t stay with sword/whatever unless you intend on swinging at air or getting steam rolled until BF comes off cooldown. Besides, if you use BF every single time its off cooldown, the universe must be working in your favor having people just line up to eat the damage or for your to avoid an attack. BF is usually used in conjuction with sword #3 anyway so people just don’t roll from that SUPER PREDICTABLE shatter. Oh no clones are running at me, what does that mean better roll just in case lawl. Since mesmers need that root to get a decent shatter off, they need to use sword #3 which teleports them directly to the enemy and roots the enemy which leaves them with 2 options use BF/roll or get lol facerolled. If you want to argue that you can use a utility skill, sure then it takes sword skills 1-4 + a utility to get a decent combo off balanced indeed. Not to mention sword #3 usually misses or is cleansed unless you cover it with pistol #5 or they are just standing still. Play a mesmer vs a condition oriented build and tell me how that goes.

i dont like any of the godmode attacks.
nothing more frustrating than “oh sorry i’m attacking you so you can’t attack me k?”
thieves spamming death blossom and being completely immune to all attacks.

Jake, Asterisk:
You do not have to stay with sword in order to pull BF every 8 seconds. I explained above how you pull BF about every 8 seconds and still do normal weapon rotation (10 sec on sword/pistol and 10 seconds on staff).
Not just L2P for two of you, but also ‘learn to read’.

Yes but every second use of it is going to require you to be stuck in sword for 8-9 until you can use BF again or wep swap again. You said that out 30 secs you can be invulnerable for 8 secs total. It is true but you exaggerate it. BF goes on a 8 sec cd and if you’re in the middle of a fight, 8 secs is a lot of time to eat a kitten load of damage and conditions, Note: if you have conditions they don’t go away by using BF.

Any one who has trouble facing BF is bad. Not to mention sword3 kittens up a lot failing to root the enemy and if you’re talking about a 1v1 situation, if you’re not a baddie you’re going to dodge as soon as you see a clone flying at you, the mesmer is BFing away and you’ve dodged and in that 2 secs of him being invulnerable, you haven’t even done damage to him or hitting him anyway cos you evaded it. In bigger fights it’s not exactly game changing either and it doesn’t make you uber invincible.

Like I said before, it is possible, but it is unrealistic and very situational and you exaggerate about being mathematically able to be invulnerable for 8secs out of 30. Big difference between being able to be invulnerable for 8 consecutive seconds out of 30 and being invulnerable for 2 secs every 8 secs out of 30.

Haldunius.7864:

Nerf thieves – 10k to 14k damage with one move from inviso with no counter. Until that happens, no other classes attacks should be touched.

10 to 14k…..show me a spvp screen with that BS damage during a match (Not on golems or kitten please) and maybe with your armor on (Already saw ppl screening dmg and then put on armor again), or you’re talkin bout wvsw? because, you know…we don’t give a kitten bout wvsw here…

Hilarious.

Liewec.2896:

i dont like any of the godmode attacks.
nothing more frustrating than “oh sorry i’m attacking you so you can’t attack me k?”
thieves spamming death blossom and being completely immune to all attacks.

“Completely immune”?
I recommend you try and play a Death Blossom build. You’d soon find out that you’re only evading through about half the animation and that you’re out of ini in 3-4s.

Archaon.6245:

Haldunius.7864:

Nerf thieves – 10k to 14k damage with one move from inviso with no counter. Until that happens, no other classes attacks should be touched.

10 to 14k…..show me a spvp screen with that BS damage during a match (Not on golems or kitten please) and maybe with your armor on (Already saw ppl screening dmg and then put on armor again), or you’re talkin bout wvsw? because, you know…we don’t give a kitten bout wvsw here…

Hilarious.

here’s your 10-14k BS damage from thieves and yes I have armor on.

Archaon.6245:

Haldunius.7864:

Nerf thieves – 10k to 14k damage with one move from inviso with no counter. Until that happens, no other classes attacks should be touched.

10 to 14k…..show me a spvp screen with that BS damage during a match (Not on golems or kitten please) and maybe with your armor on (Already saw ppl screening dmg and then put on armor again), or you’re talkin bout wvsw? because, you know…we don’t give a kitten bout wvsw here…

Hilarious.

i got hit with a 11.8k backstab earlier, i didn’t screen though

Mufa.1326:

Yukishiro, I doubt that 2sec invulnerability (every 8 seconds) on BF is necessary for viable mesmer in pvp. Whoever claims that has L2P issues.
Other classes do not get to be invulnerable 25%+ of game time based on single skill to be viable. (exception is s/p thief who traits that way and that should be fixed as well).

Let us look at what you have in sword/pistol set:
1. you have 2second stun every 25 sec.
2. you have duelist which does very decent dmg. (and u can bump his and other illusion’s HP 200% thanks to the bug).
3. you have BF every 8 sec (with above described features).
4. you have gap closer in ur clone and then immobilze for 2 sec.
5. You have dmg shatter every 10 sec or so (mind wreck).

So using 4 -> 3 -> 5 you are able to delivery super damage spike while being completely invulnerable for 2 seconds (during spike) and you do that on 10 seconds CD. you can also mix in 2 sec stun into the combo every 25 sec.

Alternatively you can deliver 4 – 3 and leave shatter as a defensive option once your invul expires, where you force enemy with your shatter to back off again and waste few seconds window where he can actually do some damage to you before you rinse/repeat.

6. you have about 4 sec of additional invul due to another shatter. (distortion). This 4 sec is on 42 sec cooldown or so (I assume you trait properly).

7. you have long daze (shatter) every 30 sec.

8. confusion also great especially in team fights.

9. You have staff which is also very good weapon. (do I need to tell you what you have there? back off shiled, then back off field, and then teleport away and clones who keep applying annoying conditions on the enemy from range while u kite)

So do not pretend as if you have no other tools to justify this obscenity of a skill. Even if you did not, you should be given such tools and this obscene skill moderated. But you actually do have other tools, this invul of 2 sec on 8 sec timer is unnecessary for skilled players.

Responses

1) Not a weapon skill from a sword, therefore not part of this discussion on Blurred Frenzy.

2) Duelist is the only Phantasm which reliably does as you say “decent damage”. Also not a weapon skill from a sword.

2.5) Phantasm traits are still bugged in their intended application. The “bug” you’re thinking of actually gets Phantasms to the level they are intended to be when traited. Said bug also doesn’t apply for some time after the Phantasm spawns (likely killed or shattered before ever reaching that point). Also, still not a weapon skill from a sword.

3) All professions have a weapon that gives them a skill that acts as an evade. That’s what Blurred Frenzy is. It’s a 2 second evade that does (rather low) damage. The only thing “broken” about the skill, is that it blocks damage from retaliation.

The auto-turn isn’t a problem as it’s still an “evade skill” with low damage even if it didn’t turn to you. It’s not meant to be like Pistol Whip or Hundred Blades, it’s more along the lines of Quick Shot or Evasive Shot.

4) Skill is buggy and dependent on a Clone moving where it’s intended (which if you had played a mesmer is about a 50/50 shot). It’s also the only immobilizing skill a mesmer has. Easily avoided by, I don’t know, dodging if the Clone somehow manages to get to you (also, breakstuns)?

5) Only respectable method of dealing direct damage available to a mesmer. All weapon skills have low damage output and/or slow attack speed. Can also be evaded/blocked/etc. Also not a weapon skill from a sword.

6) Lyssa forbid we have an o-shet button! Can’t be letting anyone but guardians get block frames. Also not a weapon skill from a sword.

7) Long daze, right. Also not a weapon skill from a sword.

8) Confusion is a condition. Other professions can stack confusion just as well (and in some cases better) than a mesmer. Also not a weapon skill from a sword.

9) Staff =/= weapon skill from a sword.

A post like this just couldn’t be left alone. Cries of OP everywhere is why PvE mesmers are seriously subpar. Every potential positive to a mesmer in PvP gets toned down so PvE mesmers get substantially nerfed.

I hate to be the person to say this, but if you had seriously invested time in playing a mesmer, you would realize how completely obtuse every single argument you made was.

Mufa.1326:

4. People who claim that they are ‘helpless’ without 2 sec invulnerability on BF. Let me help you with your rotation since you make me sad (far from being good rotation since I never played mesmer in my life and it took me about 2 min to think of this one):
1. You start with duelist when you see the enemy. Duelist is now putting pressure on melee to close in.
time 0s: Just before he closes in use BF, that is what you open with. Takes 0.5s to cast and then you ahve 2sec of invul.
time 2.5s: hit him with magic bullet. Takes 0.5s to cast and then you have him stunned for 2 sec. Then proceed to DSP with autoattack.
Time 4s (enemy stunned for 1more sec): cast your clone that leaps (0.75s cast time enemy stunned he should hit).
Time 5s (just before so enemy is still stunned): Swap so you immobilize him for 2sec. He should now be immobilized from sec 5 to sec 7.
5s-7s: Proceed to dps with autoattack or you can dodge to make a third clone and shatter. (or combination of the two).
7s-8s: get some distance from the guy and dodge if necessary.
8s: as he chases you pop BF again. (this should keep you invul till 10s).
10s: Swap to staff and phase retreat (instant, generate clone that is annoying range attacker and teleport away).
10s+ – 11s: Cast warlock.
Proceed to kite the enemy (you can dodge once to create one more clone for annoying enemy). If he closes in cast chaos storm to force him to back out. You can also use daze or invul shatter as you see fit. Chaos storm and initial distance you have should keep him away from you till second 18, at which point you can ‘phase retreat’ again. (yes yes blink away again).
20s: switch back to sword. Cast the leap guy.
21s: as leap guy closes on your target, swap for immobilize of 2s. Here you can BF again while the guy is immobilized but let us not do that, dodge away and shatter him again with clones then come back to start BF
23s: BF.
25.5 – 27.5: Back off a bit (BF finished) and cast duelist. You can dodge if you really need to.
27.5s: Stun (Magic bullet). He will be stunned between 28s-30s.
28s: autoattack for a sec till 29s. Then BF for more dmg and invul till sec 31.
31s: switch to staff and again to the teleport thing and kite (use chaos shield instead of chaos storm in this rotation and you will go back to chaos storm the next one)…..etc etc.

You guys have no tools?? Really??
Makes me laugh at how bad of a player you need to be to claim that you need more tools.
Look at the first 10s: you are pressuring with duelist who is doing singificant dmg. You are invulnerable at 0.5s-2.5s and 8s-10s. You have him stunned 3s-5s. And you have him immobilized 5s-7s. On top of that you are shattering him.
When is he supposed to do some dmg to you?
When you switch to staff you get immediate teleport (2 of them during those 10s-20s period if you trait). You get annoying ranged + condition dealing illusions. And if the guy manages to close in, guess what you get field AND shield that forces him to back off (least he keeps getting dazed/interrupted).
Then sec 20-30 and 30-40 are pretty much the same just a bit shuffled rotation to account for cooldown times.
Really people, you make me laugh.

Yes, one can say ‘use your utilities to break stun/immobilize (etc)’ and get a second or two oportunity to hit mesmer (or dodge). Problem with such argument is this:
Those cc breakers are on longer cooldowns than cooldowns of your skills that apply them.
Dodge if a matter of skill, I should be rewarded for the skill, not need skill to simply put me on equal footing with mesmer.
An example: Let us say mesmer made his leaping clone (assume two more illusions are there for shatter) and is going for a kill, he wants to swap (immobilize me), follow it by stun and then BF+shatter. If I sense this coming, and then dodge his swap and his stun and he goes into BF which I dodge through again and find myself behind his back, I should be rewarded for this and be able to for example C&D+ backstab him while he is standing there BF-ing. He should not pull off such a spike, completely miss it and then be completely forgiven….that is the point. Balance starts with these micro-sequences. If you get outplayed you should get punished, with mesmer you are forgiven so much more than you should be.
Note that he can attempt such spike without stun (just immobilize) every 10s, and one with stun every 25s.

And no I do not get stomped by anyone (this or some other class) despite all of this….at least I do not know a player who can just come and easily beat me. Not every comment about balance on these forums is due to person not being able to kill your class.

I doubt you’ve actually tried doing any of this on a mesmer and work. Speculating is one thing but actually using it in battle and making it work is another…The rotation you use would work on dolls/dummys not real live players who counter and dodge and attack.

knight.8926:

Archaon.6245:

Haldunius.7864:

Nerf thieves – 10k to 14k damage with one move from inviso with no counter. Until that happens, no other classes attacks should be touched.

10 to 14k…..show me a spvp screen with that BS damage during a match (Not on golems or kitten please) and maybe with your armor on (Already saw ppl screening dmg and then put on armor again), or you’re talkin bout wvsw? because, you know…we don’t give a kitten bout wvsw here…

Hilarious.

here’s your 10-14k BS damage from thieves and yes I have armor on.

can’t still see a 14k….and are we sure this is after sin sig nerf?

gwawer.9805:

Compared to the other channeled melee abilities (p. whip,

hblades, etc) Blurred Frenzy is the only one that AUTO-FACES in

the targets direction. That means even if I try to move behind

the mesmer he just auto-matically turns around and continues to

hit me.

It will auto-face even during the middle of the channel.

Why does Blurred Frenzy have this auto-facing, while HB and PW

doesn’t?

sounds like a l2p issue. Blurred Frenzy roots mesmer. if you are being hit by it then you are bad. also you are bad if you dont know to hold right mouse button to auto turn yourself to face your opponent during channeled abilities.

The skill not only roots you but it also is hard to land as all you have to do is walk away or dodge.

I run a Mesmer that hits Magic Bullet to stun, then hits the clone and jump ability that roots my target then Blurred frenzy. This is to Spike my target down when I have three clones up for a shatter build. Although 6 out of 10 times I miss the Blurred Frenzy in do part to teleports dodges and missing the root.

If they are not rooting you before hand then the skill is easy to dodge or avoid with little damage to you. If they are getting you rooted well that is what the spike is supposed to do.

you can also stun break out or just dodge when you see 2-3 images appear next to the mesmer. if we nerf all classes what will be left? someone will always point the nerfgun at some other class and ability. nerf mimic pls.

@bwuki.2175
nerf mimic pls.

This was Sarcastic right

Aleth.9630:

Liewec.2896:

i dont like any of the godmode attacks.
nothing more frustrating than “oh sorry i’m attacking you so you can’t attack me k?”
thieves spamming death blossom and being completely immune to all attacks.

“Completely immune”?
I recommend you try and play a Death Blossom build. You’d soon find out that you’re only evading through about half the animation and that you’re out of ini in 3-4s.

deathblossom x 3 + caltrop dodge roll x 2 = 21 stacks of bleed while providing immunity to attacks…i have played deathblossom, i’ve fought deathblossom and am still at the conclusion that attacks should be attacks, defensives should be defense.
otherwise we end up with this “blood DK”(if you played wow) lameness.

Mufa.1326:

Jake, Asterisk:
You do not have to stay with sword in order to pull BF every 8 seconds. I explained above how you pull BF about every 8 seconds and still do normal weapon rotation (10 sec on sword/pistol and 10 seconds on staff).
Not just L2P for two of you, but also ‘learn to read’.

Basing a nerf cry on an unrealistic weapon rotation is laughable at best. How transparent of a playstyle would that be? BF is slightly OP, but it’s hardly as bad as you or anybody else makes it out to be. They could switch the function to Evade instead of Invuln and you would still be complaining. Sword’s auto attack is pretty much useless since you cannot afford to be that close to most foes while using a build that will actually get the direct damage, and 3’s immobilize is more than avoidable; it involves kiting the clone, which is not difficult since clones have obvious movement patterns.

The replies confuse me…
I never feel that blurred frenzy does a lot of damage when I PvP, and I agree that it shouldn’t have a mechanic that no other class with a channelled melle ability does.
I mean, turning around when it’s used, okay, but turning around in mid channelling? What? Next stage is probably gonna be that they can move while doing it too, like windspin.

I’m fine with BF, honestly. It requires some set-up, and does put a cloth wearer in the thick of melee combat. Plus, it’s pretty easy to counter.

Personally, I’d rather see confusion taken out of the game. There are lots of other conditions in the game, and confusion is a little over-the-top.

for all the ones asking for a bf nerf:
go play a mesmer melee in a team fight with someone targeting you w/o using bf…and see how many sec you stay alive…then come again and ask for a nerf if you dare to

Don’t blurred frenzy’s CD starts only when the channel ends? Untraited blurred frenzy, 2s channel, 10s CD, total 12s. With trait, 2s channel, 8s CD, total 10s. Best you can get is 20% up time on the invul. I remember I was disappointed when I discover this.

Melee with mesmers is relies on the invul from blurred frenzy. D/D eles have alot of healing, cleanse and boons. Not sure abt dagger necro since I only use staff, but necros have huge health pool, and death shroud for extra hp. Each cloth class need to have some way to compensate for their lower defense when going melee against medium and heavy armor class. I don’t see this as over powered.

Cymric.7368:

Don’t blurred frenzy’s CD starts only when the channel ends? Untraited blurred frenzy, 2s channel, 10s CD, total 12s. With trait, 2s channel, 8s CD, total 10s. Best you can get is 20% up time on the invul. I remember I was disappointed when I discover this.

Melee with mesmers is relies on the invul from blurred frenzy. D/D eles have alot of healing, cleanse and boons. Not sure abt dagger necro since I only use staff, but necros have huge health pool, and death shroud for extra hp. Each cloth class need to have some way to compensate for their lower defense when going melee against medium and heavy armor class. I don’t see this as over powered.

That’s actually wrong. You should realize what lets any class melee is stats and that about it. Unless you add sustainability to your stats then there is no way in hell to keep yourself up. Evades and Invulnerable states just happen to be unrelated to stats ie its a freebee.

And lets be honest on the left hand side of the bar between your scholar counter parts who has an invulnerable on a 10 second cd?

This is a hard concept that many don’t get but no matter your gear type if you spec glass you’ll be squishy if you spec bunker you’ll be relatively hearty.

@Leuca.5732 (the pro)….rotation is not unrealistic. I already tested it and killed a decent warrior in my first fight on the mesmer I made for testing (and I should not be killing anyone in my first fight using the class). I used exactly that rotation (with of course mixing it up, sometimes you bring BF snare and shatter together, sometime you use stun bf and shatter together, etc etc… no class can afford to be a robot in this game (except d/d elementalist) ). Rotation is just a starting outline for a fight and then you adapt to the circumstances.

@knight.8926 … I tried it.

@Sarcasmic.6741 … please, you are answering me as if I complained or called for nerf of all those abilities I listed. Try to read my post in the context of the discussion: People were saying ‘mesmer does not have the tools to fight without 2sec invul on 8 sec cooldown’. I then listed some of the tools they have at their disposal. Then you come with your ridiculous post beating on the straw-man. Save the energy dude.

Mufa.1326:

@Sarcasmic.6741 … please, you are answering me as if I complained or called for nerf of all those abilities I listed. Try to read my post in the context of the discussion: People were saying ‘mesmer does not have the tools to fight without 2sec invul on 8 sec cooldown’. I then listed some of the tools they have at their disposal. Then you come with your ridiculous post beating on the straw-man. Save the energy dude.

Your post had nothing to do with the topic, other than trying to inflate mesmer to some godmode status. Go this profession combo and win, and here’s why.

Blurred Frenzy is the topic at hand in case you hadn’t realized where you were posting. Specifically, that it provides 2 seconds of invuln and turns the character to face the target during the channel.

Those 2 issues could be solved by making the skill “evade” instead of invuln, and remove the random turning toward the target. Those 2 seconds of damage mitigation with the sword are necessary to a melee mesmer, regardless of any other mechanic the profession may have.

(What is with this forum and abusing the “straw man argument meng”, and then using it wrong.)

@Sarcasmic.6741: If your mesmer buddies did not go off the topic claiming they have no tools, then I would not need to answer them.

Mufa.1326:

@Sarcasmic.6741: If your mesmer buddies did not go off the topic claiming they have no tools, then I would not need to answer them.

They didn’t claim to have no tools. You claimed they are practically invulnerable with your rubbish idea of a rotation for combat, of which is highly unrealistic. PvP is not a PvE fight, you don’t stand still and have the same auto attacks thrown at you. You are also the one claiming you beat a warrior first try, that you claim is good… Of what standard is he good? What spec was he? What weapons was he using? Stating, “I used Mesmer and beat some seemingly random warrior, so X skill is OP.” Proves nothing and only makes your argument weaker.

Lol, OP is funny. All I know is that in high end competition I know I would rather face a mesmer with blurred frenzy than without. Reasoning? Because it gives mesmers the pseudo confidence to even get into melee range even though their BF is really not a huge deal. I would prefer getting them in semi decent range to counter their combos and then getting them down (or bothering them off point). Without their pseudo BF confidence, they would never bother getting in melee range and would be pigeon-holed into being a super annoying ranged/kiting cloth class with immense amount of utilities for escape. Trust me, the latest nerfs put mesmers in a manageable place and there’s far greater issues to worry about than a mesmer’s BF.

Mufa.1326:

@Leuca.5732 (the pro)….rotation is not unrealistic. I already tested it and killed a decent warrior in my first fight on the mesmer I made for testing (and I should not be killing anyone in my first fight using the class). I used exactly that rotation (with of course mixing it up, sometimes you bring BF snare and shatter together, sometime you use stun bf and shatter together, etc etc… no class can afford to be a robot in this game (except d/d elementalist) ). Rotation is just a starting outline for a fight and then you adapt to the circumstances.

I love your passive aggression. The “decent warrior” you killed did not die because of BF; I can guarantee that. You are telling me that a decent warrior did not see through your rapid weapon rotation or figure out what utilities you were running before you killed him? I’m just not sure what to say to that.

Blurred Frenzy is the only non-phantasm-dependent skill I have that deals a respectable amount of damage (and phantasms are no longer as useful as they once were).

If blurred frenzy is nerfed, all invulnerability/channeled block/stealth and anything that does more than 4K should also be nerfed. Mesmer is already limited in terms of direct damage and I don’t need more crying thieves and warriors gaining more advantages over every other profession in the game.