most thieves are bad and it’s not rare to see mesmers outsmart them.
thanks to ele and warrior cleansing, condi builds are played much less.
mesmers counter:
shout warriors – meta
dps guards – meta
power necros
power rangers
cele rifle engie – meta
turret engie
d/d ele – meta
fresh air ele
staff ele
mesmers arent the best at holding points and their mobility is crap. but the poor mobility is somewhat compensated by their portal.
I used to queue with a good thief and together we’d prevent anyone from reaching our points held by downing them in less than 5 sec.
If a mesmer “outsmarts” a thief the thief has to be soooo much worse, so this really is not a legit thing.
I don’t know if you are talking about 1v1 here but mesmer actually counters few of the classes you mention. Power ranger and guardian are actually really annoying vs mesmer. Tell me if i misunderstood your post, but if not, it is full of misconceptions. ^^
It’s pretty easy to outsmart a thief with mesmer: don’t bring a power shatter build :p
A lot of these new “OP classes” problems have to do with the stability nerf.
Basically before, you had stab for a set amount of time, now a mesmer or an engi can remove 10 of your stability stacks in a second.
Talking nonsense, you’re having your boon STRIPPED if you’re losing 10 stacks in a second – to remove 10stacks from CC a Mesmer needs to use 4 Clone Diversion (this might remove the stab anyway), GS5 and Chaos Storm ticking for 5 dazes in a row, all of which takes 6secs to do and is EXTREMELY unlikely. Shatter stripping the boon would have happened before the update.
I have to agree with everyone saying if it wasn’t for theif, mesmer would be dominating pvp. Also condi necro isn’t a counter to mesmer, mesmer has enough active defence and interrupts to prevent getting much condis on them in the first place( while necro has 2 dodges and no stability, interrupt all day). The condi’s we can land after all their defence is gone will not be comparable to their high burst shatters. Their ranged damage is also superior to any of necros ranged damage, they also have moa and necros have no stealth or active defence besides death shroud + very limited mobility. Imo mesmer is the hard counter for necros, personally I dont have trouble with theives.
A lot of these new “OP classes” problems have to do with the stability nerf.
Basically before, you had stab for a set amount of time, now a mesmer or an engi can remove 10 of your stability stacks in a second.
Talking nonsense, you’re having your boon STRIPPED if you’re losing 10 stacks in a second – to remove 10stacks from CC a Mesmer needs to use 4 Clone Diversion (this might remove the stab anyway), GS5 and Chaos Storm ticking for 5 dazes in a row, all of which takes 6secs to do and is EXTREMELY unlikely. Shatter stripping the boon would have happened before the update.
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
its not just thieves. Mesmers do well against a lot of classes, but when focussed down it is really hard for them to survive. Yes you have portal, invuln, blink, and stealth however those are all pretty lengthy cds, and are also used for stun breaks, and helping out team members. Its not that its impossible to escape as a mesmer, its just that with cd times you are more likely to find yourself in a situation where you have no way to escape. The thing that separates helseth from normal mesmers is that when he’s put under pressure he see’s it coming and knows how to escape.
Thief on the other hand has great survivability, low cd heal with condi clear and tons of stealths and blinks. So when they are pressured it is quite easy for them to just peel off by themselves, whereas with mesmer it either takes the help of the team, which wont happen in pugs and only happens in premades, or great personal skill.
This is why mesmer is underpowered bc with longish cds and low survivability, it takes skill to survive in competitive play.
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I’m not saying mesmers aren’t good…
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I’m not saying mesmers aren’t good…
You’re just suggesting no one plays them. It’s not like the class is not viable, it is.
A lot of these new “OP classes” problems have to do with the stability nerf.
Basically before, you had stab for a set amount of time, now a mesmer or an engi can remove 10 of your stability stacks in a second.
Talking nonsense, you’re having your boon STRIPPED if you’re losing 10 stacks in a second – to remove 10stacks from CC a Mesmer needs to use 4 Clone Diversion (this might remove the stab anyway), GS5 and Chaos Storm ticking for 5 dazes in a row, all of which takes 6secs to do and is EXTREMELY unlikely. Shatter stripping the boon would have happened before the update.
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I’m not saying mesmers aren’t good…
You’re just suggesting no one plays them. It’s not like the class is not viable, it is.
Its viable but its one of the hardest classes, if not the hardest class to play. Which is why not that many people play it competitively. Helseth plays like almost no one else which is why he can handle it in WTS
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I’m not saying mesmers aren’t good…
You’re just suggesting no one plays them. It’s not like the class is not viable, it is.
People aren’t here because they think Mesmers aren’t viable, they are here because this “Mesmer is quickly becoming the most OP class” is a lie. Just like the rest of the SNP crap.. Seriously if they start trying to make it sound like Scotland and the rest of the UK are totally different over the bloody EU ref I will be VERY upset..
Evil people who are trying to destroy something beautiful for pride… Bloody Henry…
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I’m not saying mesmers aren’t good…
You’re just suggesting no one plays them. It’s not like the class is not viable, it is.
Its viable but its one of the hardest classes, if not the hardest class to play. Which is why not that many people play it competitively. Helseth plays like almost no one else which is why he can handle it in WTS
I cannot agree with that. I’m not saying mesmer is easy, but I wouldn’t say it’s the hardest thing to play. Imo, it’s thief even though the class gets so much kitten on forums. But if you talk competitively, then thief has a very hard time against every meta spec. Then again, people play it, so it’s probably not because it’s hard to play.
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I’m not saying mesmers aren’t good…
You’re just suggesting no one plays them. It’s not like the class is not viable, it is.
Its viable but its one of the hardest classes, if not the hardest class to play. Which is why not that many people play it competitively. Helseth plays like almost no one else which is why he can handle it in WTS
I cannot agree with that. I’m not saying mesmer is easy, but I wouldn’t say it’s the hardest thing to play. Imo, it’s thief even though the class gets so much kitten on forums. But if you talk competitively, then thief has a very hard time against every meta spec. Then again, people play it, so it’s probably not because it’s hard to play.
Hm i play thief and mesmer only. Im extremely mediocre at mesmer, but i am/ used to be pretty good at teef. Yes teef has a hard time against meta specs but that is because a teefs job isn’t to 1v1 except against mesmers and other thieves. They are supposed to plus one fights and burst down on low targets. They are extremely good at that and in those situations being a thief is not that hard. You can easily jump into and out of fights and you have stealth any time you want in order to peel off. Mesmer on the other hand has the exact same role, yet is not as good at it because they have a harder time peeling off and don’t have nearly as much stealth. I will agree thief is hard in 1v1s against meta builds and that against some classes mesmer can 1v1 pretty well, but in competitive play mesmer is definitely a harder class to pull off. Honestly in general mesmer is a harder class to pull off since out of most classes in this game. I dont really care if it is scientifically proven that mesmer isnt the hardest, but from my experiences trying to relearn mesmer, it is definitely one of the hardest classes ive played, definitely harder than thief.
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I’m not saying mesmers aren’t good…
You’re just suggesting no one plays them. It’s not like the class is not viable, it is.
People aren’t here because they think Mesmers aren’t viable, they are here because this “Mesmer is quickly becoming the most OP class” is a lie. Just like the rest of the SNP crap.. Seriously if they start trying to make it sound like Scotland and the rest of the UK are totally different over the bloody EU ref I will be VERY upset..
Evil people who are trying to destroy something beautiful for pride… Bloody Henry…
The truth is ranger is the only unviable class in high end PVP.
During ToL3, the top 8 teams have 0 ranger in any team. On the other hand, there’s a team that actually utilize TWO mesmers and do VERY WELL. This itself already proves that Mesmer is WAYY more viable than ranger because you can even afford to build around TWO mesmers.
OP consistently complains about almost every build in game.
That being said, Mes is not only not overpowered but is arguably UP.
Mes isn’t meta if it’s so OP why is there not more? Oh right cuz on it’s most viable spec it’s countered by medi guards and thieves, is forced off point by any condi or brusier builds (which is majority of the meta, and mes struggles going toe to toe vs them on a flat.), has less survivability than ANY medium class, and of it’s zerker counterparts has the most set up and the easiest to doge burst… You know unlike ele, thief, and guard who are instant (and sometimes don’t need LoS)
If you lose to a mesmer because you A. get lost in clones. B. cannot doge a shatter. Or C. Cannot play around a 30 second c/d for both blink and decoy.
It’s time to get good and stop QQing because of being to inept.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~” “Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
I agree completely! That is why everyone is a mesmer!
Wait…um no they are not and actually there are not that many….
nuff said.
I beleive we had established no one plays a mesmer because a thief eats mesmers. The competitive players have mostly abandoned mesmer because there is almost always a theif. You see some still compete in tourneys. Helseth looked pretty good today but helseth is well… helseth.
Yes, mesmers are horrible, that’s why one is going to WTS.
I’m not saying mesmers aren’t good…
You’re just suggesting no one plays them. It’s not like the class is not viable, it is.
Its viable but its one of the hardest classes, if not the hardest class to play. Which is why not that many people play it competitively. Helseth plays like almost no one else which is why he can handle it in WTS
I cannot agree with that. I’m not saying mesmer is easy, but I wouldn’t say it’s the hardest thing to play. Imo, it’s thief even though the class gets so much kitten on forums. But if you talk competitively, then thief has a very hard time against every meta spec. Then again, people play it, so it’s probably not because it’s hard to play.
Hm i play thief and mesmer only. Im extremely mediocre at mesmer, but i am/ used to be pretty good at teef. Yes teef has a hard time against meta specs but that is because a teefs job isn’t to 1v1 except against mesmers and other thieves. They are supposed to plus one fights and burst down on low targets. They are extremely good at that and in those situations being a thief is not that hard. You can easily jump into and out of fights and you have stealth any time you want in order to peel off. Mesmer on the other hand has the exact same role, yet is not as good at it because they have a harder time peeling off and don’t have nearly as much stealth. I will agree thief is hard in 1v1s against meta builds and that against some classes mesmer can 1v1 pretty well, but in competitive play mesmer is definitely a harder class to pull off. Honestly in general mesmer is a harder class to pull off since out of most classes in this game. I dont really care if it is scientifically proven that mesmer isnt the hardest, but from my experiences trying to relearn mesmer, it is definitely one of the hardest classes ive played, definitely harder than thief.
Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree. Thief has to be in melee a lot without Blurred frenzy, lower hp pool…I would say playing a thief is more risky, than mesmer assuming there’s no thief on the mesmer. I’ve played both classes and from my experience thief is harder to play.
Yes, because all other classes have more viable builds.
Well ele has D/D, celestial staff, zerk staff, and zerk fresh air, which have all proven viable in various circumstances. Guardian has both bunker and multiple types of Medi DPS, thief has panic strike and S/D. Pretty much every other class has more viable builds they can run, its just that some are slightly more optimal in the current meta/state of balance. Memser really only has power shatter.
The biggest variation in a current mesmer build for them now is whether to take staff or s/t to complement GS. Thats pretty much it. The condition builds are both pretty rough in conquest, mainly because they don’t have enough sustain to warrant running over burst, and the lack of a niche for conditions in the current meta. Lockdown builds are interesting to run and powerful in their own right, but in their current state, that lockdown is useless without the burst from shatter to actually kill things efficiently.
The future traits will help a lot though, in part by making lockdown and shatter less mutually exclusive to one another.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
A lot of these new “OP classes” problems have to do with the stability nerf.
Basically before, you had stab for a set amount of time, now a mesmer or an engi can remove 10 of your stability stacks in a second.
Talking nonsense, you’re having your boon STRIPPED if you’re losing 10 stacks in a second – to remove 10stacks from CC a Mesmer needs to use 4 Clone Diversion (this might remove the stab anyway), GS5 and Chaos Storm ticking for 5 dazes in a row, all of which takes 6secs to do and is EXTREMELY unlikely. Shatter stripping the boon would have happened before the update.
I’ll exterminate you!!! UTTERLY!!!!! Not a cell shall survive!!!!
Sorry coulter! As I am a half scottish I will move up there when we obtain our freedom coulter. We can do this! If we stick together we can gain our freedom and nerf mesmers. Lets join together! I will leave behind my home county roots to join you in the fight for freedom if you help me get mesmers nerfed! Deal?
Attachments:
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
Yes, because all other classes have more viable builds.
Well ele has D/D, celestial staff, zerk staff, and zerk fresh air, which have all proven viable in various circumstances. Guardian has both bunker and multiple types of Medi DPS, thief has panic strike and S/D. Pretty much every other class has more viable builds they can run, its just that some are slightly more optimal in the current meta/state of balance. Memser really only has power shatter.
The biggest variation in a current mesmer build for them now is whether to take staff or s/t to complement GS. Thats pretty much it. The condition builds are both pretty rough in conquest, mainly because they don’t have enough sustain to warrant running over burst, and the lack of a niche for conditions in the current meta. Lockdown builds are interesting to run and powerful in their own right, but in their current state, that lockdown is useless without the burst from shatter to actually kill things efficiently.
The future traits will help a lot though, in part by making lockdown and shatter less mutually exclusive to one another.
In that case mesmer has condi, condi pu, phantasm pu, phantasm, shatter, lockdown…All are viablle in various circumstances.
In that case mesmer has condi, condi pu, phantasm pu, phantasm, shatter, lockdown…All are viablle in various circumstances.
They have very little place in the meta outside of play that does not cater to the proper competitive format.
imo the fault of the game type, but regardless that doesn’t mean diversity. If something is only viable within it’s isolated space… Then it is not really all that viable.
“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~” “Maybe I was the illusion all along!”
Yes, because all other classes have more viable builds.
Well ele has D/D, celestial staff, zerk staff, and zerk fresh air, which have all proven viable in various circumstances. Guardian has both bunker and multiple types of Medi DPS, thief has panic strike and S/D. Pretty much every other class has more viable builds they can run, its just that some are slightly more optimal in the current meta/state of balance. Memser really only has power shatter.
The biggest variation in a current mesmer build for them now is whether to take staff or s/t to complement GS. Thats pretty much it. The condition builds are both pretty rough in conquest, mainly because they don’t have enough sustain to warrant running over burst, and the lack of a niche for conditions in the current meta. Lockdown builds are interesting to run and powerful in their own right, but in their current state, that lockdown is useless without the burst from shatter to actually kill things efficiently.
The future traits will help a lot though, in part by making lockdown and shatter less mutually exclusive to one another.
In that case mesmer has condi, condi pu, phantasm pu, phantasm, shatter, lockdown…All are viablle in various circumstances.
Well yeah thats true technically, but only shatter is viable in conquest pvp. The condition builds are only viable in WvW roaming. They aren’t what I’d consider viable in conquest for many reasons.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Ok, I really didn’t want to get involved in the stupidity of this thread, but I’m gonna bite.
Not a single person claiming Mesmers are OP have given anything actually factual about Mesmers. Seriously? Have any of you ever played one? The only legit point without hyperbole’s and straight up lies to be mentioned is that Mesmers Moa from stealth has little counterplay, (that’s if you fail to see the mesmer stealthing or your team doesn’t keep track of it’s opponants glassiest dps dealer).
As for all the GS complaints. Your complaining GS has insane damage. No kitten. GS is a 100% offensive weapon. Every skill on it is about dps with little utility and no defense. A shatter mesmer who just swapped to GS is literally the easiest focus target in the game.
Your right, my bad mesmers are definitely just bad. They can’t lockdown from stealth and spike people for 10k. They can’t completely shutdown all transformations. They can’t teleport vertically, they can’t teleport there whole team to a point after they have stealthed to a point, they can’t proc air fire sigils from an insane range or use their gs as a range finder for enemies. They can’t go invincible every 10 seconds. my bad.
Where’s my hyperbole.
Here’s your hyperbole’s.
Lockdown from stealth is on a 45 sec cd and uses all your resources, all other cc’s are tied to damage. The animation is obvious. Clones Friggen charge at you, how is that without counterplay?
Spiking for 10k from stealth, technically possible, but you can still see mirror blade coming at your, or the clone appear for the immob swap combo. When a mesmer has 3 clones out and you miss the set up, yes, it’s possible to hit up to 10k bursts.
No, they can’t go invincible every 10 seconds. BF is an evade. which roots you in place, the mesmer is still ticking conditions and taking retal damage. Given the skill is tied to a melee weapon set. And mesmers can not fight in melee other then jumping in then out to safety again, 2, out of every 20 seconds, and that’s when traited, otherwise its every 24 seconds, is the most the mesmer can use this evade.
Also I never said Mesmers are bad >.>
Just saying the information and ‘facts’ in this thread are absolute bullkitten.
Daliriant, Dr Octogon [Champion Illusionist]
Mellowpuff [Champion Hunter]
Currently on a personal power level Mesmers are a quite bit weaker than the rest of the meta. What mesmers bring to the table though is portal which is extremely strong.
If the personal power level of mesmer is to rise, which it seems to be judging by the trait changes, then Mesmer will become mandatory because portal is just that strong.
Solution? Well there is 2 options as I see it.
1. Balance Mesmers personal power level around the current cooldown of portal to a place where taking Mesmer is plenty viable. IMO this would mean the personal power level of Mesmer just ever so slightly rises in the current state of the game.
2. Increase the cooldown of portal and significantly increase the personal power level of mesmer to that of other strong classes/builds.
most thieves are bad and it’s not rare to see mesmers outsmart them.
thanks to ele and warrior cleansing, condi builds are played much less.
mesmers counter:
shout warriors – meta
dps guards – meta
power necros
power rangers
cele rifle engie – meta
turret engie
d/d ele – meta
fresh air ele
staff ele
mesmers arent the best at holding points and their mobility is crap. but the poor mobility is somewhat compensated by their portal.
I used to queue with a good thief and together we’d prevent anyone from reaching our points held by downing them in less than 5 sec.
Out of everything on that list, mesmer really only counters the celestial classes, meaning no DPS guard, no sf ele, no power necro, no power ranger, turret engi ok but that isn’t played much anymore.
Currently on a personal power level Mesmers are a quite bit weaker than the rest of the meta. What mesmers bring to the table though is portal which is extremely strong.
If the personal power level of mesmer is to rise, which it seems to be judging by the trait changes, then Mesmer will become mandatory because portal is just that strong.
Solution? Well there is 2 options as I see it.
1. Balance Mesmers personal power level around the current cooldown of portal to a place where taking Mesmer is plenty viable. IMO this would mean the personal power level of Mesmer just ever so slightly rises in the current state of the game.
2. Increase the cooldown of portal and significantly increase the personal power level of mesmer to that of other strong classes/builds.
This.
I am voting for 1 since portal is one utility you can substitute in games below tournament level. With slightly buffed personal power level+one more fight-oriented utility is enough to make mesmer good.
I don’t want to see portal cool down increase since nice portal play is so enjoyable to watch in high-level play.
most thieves are bad and it’s not rare to see mesmers outsmart them.
thanks to ele and warrior cleansing, condi builds are played much less.
mesmers counter:
shout warriors – meta
dps guards – meta
power necros
power rangers
cele rifle engie – meta
turret engie
d/d ele – meta
fresh air ele
staff ele
mesmers arent the best at holding points and their mobility is crap. but the poor mobility is somewhat compensated by their portal.
I used to queue with a good thief and together we’d prevent anyone from reaching our points held by downing them in less than 5 sec.
Out of everything on that list, mesmer really only counters the celestial classes, meaning no DPS guard, no sf ele, no power necro, no power ranger, turret engi ok but that isn’t played much anymore.
Even against cele class, it is only a soft counter since you can remove their boons in team fight. But that is it. It is not advisable to waste your time 1v1ing a cele ele or cele warrior. A good cele ele and warrior have about equal chance to beat mesmer as well. I can probably even beat a lot of similar skill level mesmer on my shoutbow.
That list is kinda hilarious to begin with. DPS guard counters mesmers. How can it be the other way around? SF Ele and power ranger are about equal depends on LOS.
The only 1v1 a shatter mesmer is likely to take is probably against cele engi.
But if we nerf mesmers, do you really expect to keep the pound?
are we going to have a mes/thief referendum every year? Perhaps they should redisign necro/ranger to deal with them, as those are clearly the most flawed classes in the game. (Just buffing either makes them cheesy faceroll)..
PS: as flawed I mean in terms of design , not balance.
Let him nerf mesmers, let him nerf the next profession he/she can’t manage in the next future, let him be bored playing only a while until he/she change to another game.
Reset. The objective have been accomplished. Restarting, ruin this new one game.
In other games I play, competitive, when a profession is not balanced, is banned by the community itself. Here, sadly, if you are op you play it and if not and you are bad even promote the use of hacks. This game will never be a esport, until the rules are inviolable and/or the community respects them, even though they may break.
This last thing I see quite complicated if not impossible.
Developers need to implement better anti-cheaters if they want to turn this game into something important in the international competitive arena.
Players like this should be recorded before they change their account. Perhaps we will record a new star…
In other games I play, competitive, when a profession is not balanced, is banned by the community itself. Here, sadly, if you are op you play it and if not and you are bad even promote the use of hacks. This game will never be a esport, until the rules are inviolable and/or the community respects them, even though they may break.
This last thing I see quite complicated if not impossible.
Developers need to implement better anti-cheaters if they want to turn this game into something important in the international competitive arena.
Players like this should be recorded before they change their account. Perhaps we will record a new star…
Because we don’t have completely out-of-line op class. We only have class that are meta or class that are slightly below meta. GW2 is simply one of the most balanced MMO I have seen.
All the more reason then. I think the game still has to halfway in the worst case, hopefully if things are done well and the players do their part, we can achieve a better future.
Because the absence of thieves would suddenly make necros good. It would remove all the shout warriors, Meditation guard and cele rifle engineers from the meta game and make necromancers harder to focus down. The necromancer could just use his/her superior mobility to get to the incredibly slow and immobile mesmer and focus him/her down. I wonder why I have never thought about this before.
Because the absence of thieves would suddenly make necros good. It would remove all the shout warriors, Meditation guard and cele rifle engineers from the meta game and make necromancers harder to focus down. The necromancer could just use his/her superior mobility to get to the incredibly slow and immobile mesmer and focus him/her down. I wonder why I have never thought about this before.
except mesmers actually have better chances to kill celestials~
imagine if every single team would run mesmer, what do you think would happen?
i play ranger with axe main hand ,torch off hand its non meta but its very good for fighting mesmers. a lot times its a build issue i do loose to thiefs and warriors a lot but its ok since you cant counter everything
…they should make more classes field builds that can enforce the meta then. We don’t want 5 man cele teams running around spamming skills without being able to be punished.
The problem, that never seems to be presented in the forums, is that if you want to do that role (burst) on any other class you can’t even with a zerker ammy. It’s because the other classes inherit all the harp-a-darp mechanics from their more bunker orientated versions, which are useless for a zerk role where getting hit means death against good teams.
The exception to this is medi guards, because they also have plenty of hard mitigation, and a sustain mechanic that doesn’t gain much from sustain stats. Basically
Soft Mitigation
Protection
Healing (all forms)
Condition Cleanse (although arguable tied to hard mitigation also)
death shroud
Hard Mitigation
block
blind
evade
range/LoS (negated by thieves)
Zerker classes only want and need hard mitigation, but some classes just don’t have it. Its not a balance issue, it’s a design issue. I would type more but nobody reads this stuff anyway, w/e.
…they should make more classes field builds that can enforce the meta then. We don’t want 5 man cele teams running around spamming skills without being able to be punished.
The problem, that never seems to be presented in the forums, is that if you want to do that role (burst) on any other class you can’t even with a zerker ammy. It’s because the other classes inherit all the harp-a-darp mechanics from their more bunker orientated versions, which are useless for a zerk role where getting hit means death against good teams.
The exception to this is medi guards, because they also have plenty of hard mitigation, and a sustain mechanic that doesn’t gain much from sustain stats. Basically
Soft Mitigation
Protection
Healing (all forms)
Condition Cleanse (although arguable tied to hard mitigation also)
death shroud
Hard Mitigation
block
blind
evade
range/LoS (negated by thieves)
Zerker classes only want and need hard mitigation, but some classes just don’t have it. Its not a balance issue, it’s a design issue. I would type more but nobody reads this stuff anyway, w/e.
I agree. Thief is conceptually strong. Whatever the numbers I find it hard to believe thief could ever be anything but a must-have in any try-hard set ups. I learnt my lesson for this game anyway. Next time I play a class-based game I will pick the class from the outset which is clearly conceptually strong. I think thief and mesmer are both conceptually strong.
Necro can be good but will always be limited by its design. Whenever they say its not in a classes design space to have the hard mitigation such as evades, invulns, high healing then it really does limit what that class can do because such classes will always have counter play.
It is the same with conditions. Inherently conditions allow for counter play because they can be cleansed. Which is why people moaning about no counterplay to dhuumfire make no sense if they then dont moan about air sigils (which really do have no counter play).
Another thing is that as power creep has gone on the hard mitigation you mention (that mesmers, thieves have alot of) becomes more powerful. Because a meat shield high HP class will have its HP advantage eroded. A skill doing 2k damage when it used to do 1.5k damage (or a sigil) will mean that HP is less valuable and so is any soft mitigation. Whereas an evade is always an evade. They could be swinging at you for 40k damage, it wouldnt matter if you evade it. So the defensive mechanics of thief and mesmer and other classes scale well with power creep. That is why I think thieves in particular are probably better than they have ever been. The more power creep that happens the better and better they get.
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.
Except mesmer loses vs thief, ranger (condi especially), dps guard, shoutwarrior (unless perfect plays from the mesmer) and more.
If we’re really talking about 1v1 then DPS guard (if you know when they are going to use gap closers) burns down fast, and you have so many options when it comes to shattering the ranger (illusion IV is especially hepful).
shoutwarrior? XD
the only one I can agree with is condi ranger, the axe flies everywhere
the whole thread made my day
He was right. There is no way a good mesmer should engage into any of those matchups 1v1. You are the one making others laugh.
Exactly. A staff mesmer CAN win vs dpsguard. For sword mesmer, is it almost impossible, as in, you have to be about 50 times better than the guardian. A staff mesmer with strength runes can beat shoutbow. As soon as you equip traveler or use a sword, it becomes very very hard. Anyone who thinks differently can ask some good/known mesmers that you might trust more than me.
most thieves are bad and it’s not rare to see mesmers outsmart them.
thanks to ele and warrior cleansing, condi builds are played much less.
mesmers counter:
shout warriors – meta
dps guards – meta
power necros
power rangers
cele rifle engie – meta
turret engie
d/d ele – meta
fresh air ele
staff ele
mesmers arent the best at holding points and their mobility is crap. but the poor mobility is somewhat compensated by their portal.
I used to queue with a good thief and together we’d prevent anyone from reaching our points held by downing them in less than 5 sec.
Out of everything on that list, mesmer really only counters the celestial classes, meaning no DPS guard, no sf ele, no power necro, no power ranger, turret engi ok but that isn’t played much anymore.
Even against cele class, it is only a soft counter since you can remove their boons in team fight. But that is it. It is not advisable to waste your time 1v1ing a cele ele or cele warrior. A good cele ele and warrior have about equal chance to beat mesmer as well. I can probably even beat a lot of similar skill level mesmer on my shoutbow.
That list is kinda hilarious to begin with. DPS guard counters mesmers. How can it be the other way around? SF Ele and power ranger are about equal depends on LOS.
The only 1v1 a shatter mesmer is likely to take is probably against cele engi.
Yeah, and even that is dangerous. A single nade or prybar and the mes is almost dead for certain. It isn’t uncommon for helseth to lose vs good engis like texbi, zan and so on for example. This is for sword mesmer, btw. I don’t know how he/she can think mesmer counters all of these builds.
most thieves are bad and it’s not rare to see mesmers outsmart them.
thanks to ele and warrior cleansing, condi builds are played much less.
mesmers counter:
shout warriors – meta
dps guards – meta
power necros
power rangers
cele rifle engie – meta
turret engie
d/d ele – meta
fresh air ele
staff ele
mesmers arent the best at holding points and their mobility is crap. but the poor mobility is somewhat compensated by their portal.
I used to queue with a good thief and together we’d prevent anyone from reaching our points held by downing them in less than 5 sec.
Out of everything on that list, mesmer really only counters the celestial classes, meaning no DPS guard, no sf ele, no power necro, no power ranger, turret engi ok but that isn’t played much anymore.
Even against cele class, it is only a soft counter since you can remove their boons in team fight. But that is it. It is not advisable to waste your time 1v1ing a cele ele or cele warrior. A good cele ele and warrior have about equal chance to beat mesmer as well. I can probably even beat a lot of similar skill level mesmer on my shoutbow.
That list is kinda hilarious to begin with. DPS guard counters mesmers. How can it be the other way around? SF Ele and power ranger are about equal depends on LOS.
The only 1v1 a shatter mesmer is likely to take is probably against cele engi.
I play gs/staff mesmer and by no means am I “pro” or even good at it but I don’t think the list is that inaccurate. But I’m iffy about is the dps guard. On a 1v1 a mesmer can usually beat a warrior and dps guard but given the game’s conquest mode, they would usually end up capping while you attacked from ranged. Especially for dps guard, I’d only get closer to them once their hp is low enough to execute the final shatter. But the point is lost by then.
I’m still honing my timing and positioning and I’m sure you guys know more about mesmering than I do
