Guild Wars 2

Screw face roll micro manage builds with low mobility and having to actively control the board for minions to be effective, we need more skill play like Regen warriors, button spam thieves, Aoe grenade spamming engies/necros, wall spamming bunker guardians and all buttons at once eles. Sometimes I forget how much harder everyone else has to work and how AI is the easy/handicap builds… My bad.

Valentin.2073:

They are just OP. How do you even beat them 1v1? I run a spirit ranger and it’s just impossible to beat this petting zoo build. All they do is just stand there and let their minions deplete your hp and you can’t do anything about it.

I gave up. I decided not to deal with them 1v1. It’s frustrating and degrading.. How can 1 class be that OP? Warriors are even more manageable 1v1.

Nerfbat is the only solution that I can think of.

You’re running a spirit ranger. You have no right to complain about pet AI builds.

I think that the only thing that makes a spirit ranger supposedly “OP” is that it’s a tanky build but has good dps. All classes have the option to choose that kind of build, right?

Minion masters have too many pets dealing damage on someone while a spirit ranger just rely to get boons from his spirits. MM’s pets can immobilize and steal health which I think is extremely OP considering their number. Minions also serve as a protection wall.

Valentin.2073:

I think that the only thing that makes a spirit ranger supposedly “OP” is that it’s a tanky build but has good dps. All classes have the option to choose that kind of build, right?

That’s the problem. Warriors Minion necros, and spirit rangers all get access to tanky specs THAT STILL DO BIG DAMAGE + SUPPORT.

Every other class is balanced around choosing between damage, tank, and support. You want damage? You gotta go glass and be good at dodging damage. You want bunker? You gotta give up your ability to do power dps. Condi damage does equal damage to power damage right now but only requires investment IN ONE STAT. So spirit rangers get to kitten out DPS while being tnaking and having screen clutter + pet AI as a crutch.

Spirit rangers do not get to complain about class balance until condi damage gets scaled back or is changed to depend on more than one stat (like power spec)>

Errant Venture.9371:

Valentin.2073:

I think that the only thing that makes a spirit ranger supposedly “OP” is that it’s a tanky build but has good dps. All classes have the option to choose that kind of build, right?

That’s the problem. Warriors Minion necros, and spirit rangers all get access to tanky specs THAT STILL DO BIG DAMAGE + SUPPORT.

Every other class is balanced around choosing between damage, tank, and support. You want damage? You gotta go glass and be good at dodging damage. You want bunker? You gotta give up your ability to do power dps. Condi damage does equal damage to power damage right now but only requires investment IN ONE STAT. So spirit rangers get to kitten out DPS while being tnaking and having screen clutter + pet AI as a crutch.

Spirit rangers do not get to complain about class balance until condi damage gets scaled back or is changed to depend on more than one stat (like power spec)>

i don’t play a condition spirit. i run a power spirit build. i give condition boon to my allies but i dont deal huge condition myself. just saying…

Errant Venture.9371:

That’s the problem. Warriors Minion necros, and spirit rangers all get access to tanky specs THAT STILL DO BIG DAMAGE + SUPPORT.

Every other class is balanced around choosing between damage, tank, and support. You want damage? You gotta go glass and be good at dodging damage. You want bunker? You gotta give up your ability to do power dps. Condi damage does equal damage to power damage right now but only requires investment IN ONE STAT. So spirit rangers get to kitten out DPS while being tnaking and having screen clutter + pet AI as a crutch.

Spirit rangers do not get to complain about class balance until condi damage gets scaled back or is changed to depend on more than one stat (like power spec)>

Its an over simplification. MM necros have high single target damage, and high sustain. But there is a reason you almost never see them in high level play. They generally very easy to counter, because they have almost no meaningful defense, their main use is 1v1 dueling.

A real bunker gets blocks, invulns, vigor, protection, etc. MMs have almost exclusively sustain, they actually have almost no mitigation. They are every bit as weak to focus fire as any necro. The reason the do well 1v1 is in general a single burst class doesn’t have the ability to burst through a defensive Necro in one go, and by the time you can burst them again a lot of it has been healed back up.

They actually have a weakness, some way to meaningfully counter them. You hard focus fire them, you AoE the hell out of their minions, you simply kite their minions (no hitting = very low DPS output and no sustain), there are ways to avoid it. You can stop their theoretically high bunkering and DPS, because in reality against a good opponent those numbers are never reached.

Warriors on the other hand get high regen simply by being alive. As long as they aren’t dead, they are regening. You can’t kite their regen, you can’t stop them from regening, it simply happens. If you try to burst through their regen, they have multiple sources of incredible mitigation to get through it. They get this super high regen while running full damage. Then they get CC that makes you unable to effectively fight them. And then that CC is still doing high damage. Almost every method of meaningful counterplay against what they have is countered again by another mechanic they have.

silentnight warrior.2714:

The problem is the AI doing the the job for the players. Necros, rangers, mesmers and in some point engeniers abuse the AI in some point. That should be nerfed so people actualy do some PvP in PvP.

pvp = player vs pet woohoo

thieves and eles have AI’s too and only warriors and guardians dont but they can choose to trait for a rockdog.

so warriors and guardians are the only rightfull classes?

Valentin.2073:

thieves and eles have AI’s too and only warriors and guardians dont but they can choose to trait for a rockdog.

so warriors and guardians are the only rightfull classes?

thief guild is so crappy though…long CD and gives our your position… -_-

besides those are temporal, while necro and ranger pets are permanent

I play necro, I don’t play MM the reason for this is that it’s just so incredibly boring..

Where the MM in guildwars was something you had to finetune and really needed to understand to play, keeping your minions up, fighting over the bodies of fallen comrades and foe’s, minion stealing etc..

GW2 made the MM player into an npc that just eats damage where the only way to play is just HP upkeep. target a foe and just wait. sure you can trow in some weapon attacks , but there is honestly nothing interesting about these builds , the minions and the wole MM concept in GW2.

Give me my Ventura’s skills back! Give me my dead bodies to draw minions from, give me guildwars! ^^

but yeah MM’s are OP and would rather see them replaced by something that promotes actually pressing buttons for stuff to happen.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I play necro, I don’t play MM the reason for this is that it’s just so incredibly boring..

Where the MM in guildwars was something you had to finetune and really needed to understand to play, keeping your minions up, fighting over the bodies of fallen comrades and foe’s, minion stealing etc..

GW2 made the MM player into an npc that just eats damage where the only way to play is just HP upkeep. target a foe and just wait. sure you can trow in some weapon attacks , but there is honestly nothing interesting about these builds , the minions and the wole MM concept in GW2.

Give me my Ventura’s skills back! Give me my dead bodies to draw minions from, give me guildwars! ^^

but yeah MM’s are OP and would rather see them replaced by something that promotes actually pressing buttons for stuff to happen.

You obviously don’t know how to play one then.

good thing that warriors are there to counter necros. since a lot of people are whining about warriors, they should ask for a necro to be nerfed as well. imo, necros are the rodents in pvp. you always see them standing alone on a cap point because they know how powerful they are. if you are alone hoping to steal the cap, you’d just get facerolled with no mercy. i see that happens all the time.

You obviously don’t know how to play one then.

Yup, i have no clue..
I would rather play something that allows you to think, no offence to MM’s. I would love to play one.. it’s all i did in guildwars for the last 5 years..
But since everything is passive, condi cleanse, dps, ok i can click a minion skills and they would blind or blow up etc.. but it’s just not interesting I mean if 2 MM’s meet its basicly AI swarming eachother and the one with the higher dps and better timing wins..

Again where are the minion swap mechanic? minion scrifice? actually playing on the death of others? theonly mechanic left from guildwars is putrid explosion basicly the most simple skill to copy paste, since it doesn’t add much code.

iow. I would love to play MM, but there is nothing to make playing it interesting.

NB: you probably never played guildwars, man MM’s were so cool to play in that game it’s a shame they fell into a niche.

Valentin.2073:

thieves and eles have AI’s too and only warriors and guardians dont but they can choose to trait for a rockdog.

so warriors and guardians are the only rightfull classes?

Spirit Weapons.

yeah, i completely forgot that. so that makes warriors the only skilled profession if ai driven classes have low skill ceiling.

Valentin.2073:

yeah, i completely forgot that. so that makes warriors the only skilled profession if ai driven classes have low skill ceiling.

Hey if it were up to me i would disable ALL AI mechanics in PvP other than Ranger Pets and Mesmer Clones (definitely disable phantasms tho) ^______^

Edit: My exception for clones is: they don’t attack for any significant damage. They exist basically for distraction + to be shattered.

I still think AI builds should be noob builds that aren’t really viable, just something they can survive in hotjoin with long enough to realize that the builds suck and they’re better off doing something more aggressive.

That would require a complete redesign of the Ranger class though so not gonna happen.

Am I the only one that gets warnings from devs by typing “troll” comments? I noticed a lot of them in here and I feel like they get away with stuff I can’t. Or do they just not care? I’ll probably get a warning for this post as well since it’s off topic I guess?

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

NB: you probably never played guildwars, man MM’s were so cool to play in that game it’s a shame they fell into a niche.

I played almost exclusively MM in gw1, and MMs still take skill, its just entirely different type of skill and micro, which was going to happen when they axed targeted enchantments, which were 95% of the meaningful decision making of the MM in GW1. The reality was the very best MM to ever play GW1 was still worse at playing the build than the heroes everyone used to faceroll PvE content.

Also, niche? MM in GW1 were every bit as niche. You couldn’t take them into any PvP that wasn’t large-scale fighting with tons of NPC dying. You could bring them through a lot of PvE, as long as it was generally easier to roll content, as you needed a constant stream of corpses to be useful. It was every bit as niche as it is now, except some of the situations have been reversed.

And the skill isn’t more or less, its different. GW1 require impossible Microing of enchantments. But besides that, you pressed your heals when needed, you summoned when needed, your minions were even more passive on your part because literally it was summon and then forget until they are about to die. Your only microing was of your enchantments, which was impossibly hard to do perfectly but still only part of it. You could still be a perfectly good MM, comparable to ones now, if you did the “summon and forget” strategy. In fact since almost every MM had a designated healer, its even easier because you just press the buttons and things die, at least in GW2 you have to dodge and use active skills.

MM Necro in Factions haha stahp you’re giving me good memories of Arenanet

Silentshoes.1805:

silentnight warrior.2714:

The problem is the AI doing the the job for the players. Necros, rangers, mesmers and in some point engeniers abuse the AI in some point. That should be nerfed so people actualy do some PvP in PvP.

AIs are just conditions or buffs with a visual representation. Other classes have buffs and automatic damages that you don’t see. Those are still an “AI”.

Agree

I feel like there needs to be an article on the definition of OP is, as I get the feeling people ‘s definitions differ. I won’t attempt that discussion here, as I wish to address the topic at hand. I mention this only to help people consider what they think is OP, and how they can discuss this in a way to benefit the community, opposed to making vague comments that some may take as being antagonist.

MM’s, as a whole, are not OP in my opinion. As I’ve mentioned before, there exists at least two skill tiers to the MM player, and the ones most people complain about are the lower skill tier. Some of the comments I am reading appear to come more from a source of personal disdain for AI’s in general, as opposed to understanding the complexities required for high end game play. For those interested, these are the skills I run (though I’m not supplying runes, traits, etc. for a good reason. Also, this is not my sPvP build, as the speed is needed to avoid zergs in hotjoin): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAndWjMaJ7laua0bA

There does exist one move as an MM, which may be OP. This move is the Flesh Golem’s charge ability. I’m not talking about how it operates, as I think the functionality is fine regarding the base effects. However, there is a pro/con with the skill, and depending upon how you use it, can give you a smashing advantage in a fight.

The issue lies in the way the Flesh Golem deals damage. In general, it rushes through a target (which deals some damage and knocks them down), and then continues on it’s way for the duration of the skill. This skill in itself is not a big deal. It’s annoying when it occurs to you, but is easy enough to recover from. The issue is when an opponent is against a wall. The golem will continue to charge on against the wall, and essentially crush the opponent into dust. What I mean is, whereas the base of the skill allows the player to take some damage, when they are against a wall, they take damage for the entire rush of the Flesh Golem. This is the part where I may consider this to be OP, and that would have to be determined by Arena Net.

It takes some skill (or just dumb luck), to get this to work right. Often times, I’ll see someone running close to a wall, so I’ll fear them into it, or just unleash the Golem and watch their life drop drastically. There is one spot in Skyhammer where this tactic is extremely useful…

One thing to consider with the Flesh Golem, which balances out the smashing-against-a-wall tactic. Oftentimes, the Flesh Golem doesn’t get to even hit it’s mark, as it gets caught on a rock (or something), so it just runs in place and accomplishes nothing. So, for the number times I’ve had great success with the elite, I’ve also had an equal number of times where I’ve scratched my head while he runs helplessly in place.

To my surprise, I managed to get the jump on a signet warrior and smashed him fully with the Flesh Golem. In most circumstances, this would severely wound a player, and I can finish them off quickly. I was shocked to find that he fully survived everything I threw at him (and I can stack the damage/cc’s up extremely quickly), and then he destroyed the trebuchet and ran off.

Just some food for thought…

Valentin.2073:

They are just OP. How do you even beat them 1v1? I run a spirit ranger and it’s just impossible to beat this petting zoo build.

L-O-L.

I have no Sympathy.

Silentshoes.1805:

silentnight warrior.2714:

The problem is the AI doing the the job for the players. Necros, rangers, mesmers and in some point engeniers abuse the AI in some point. That should be nerfed so people actualy do some PvP in PvP.

AIs are just conditions or buffs with a visual representation. Other classes have buffs and automatic damages that you don’t see. Those are still an “AI”.

I’ve tried to explain this a thousand times. Not to mention watching minion Hp, micro managing and controlling an enemy so that your “DoTs” can actually hit requires much more skill than most of the face-roll builds available. Sure its easy to play against bad players who stand still and take it in the face, but versus good players (or AoE) its fun and a unique way to play, people just kitten if they have more than 1 target to look at, they want everything handed to them and kill everything in 2 hits or its not “fun” for THEM. I say get over it.

this thread had 125 replies 2277 views.

sweet…

Valentin.2073:

this thread had 125 replies 2277 views.

sweet…

CNN and Fox News get more views, doesn’t make it quality information.