Guild Wars 2

yay for eternal forum bugs

Faux Play.6104:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Faux Play.6104:

How many people have been perma banned for buying gold? How many have been banned for having someone run raids for them?

How should I know how many people are banned? If proof exists (hint: in this case there is), they should be punished. Your logic seems to be if other players got away with it, these guys should get a pass too.

Are you intentionally being dense? Selling raids is purely an in game gold interaction. Gold selling and what these players did was sell a service for real life money. I’d rate this worse personally because doing this type of nonsense in a pvp setting should be unacceptable.

By your logic, should people get banned for making money from their twitch account? Account sharing is account sharing.

Seriously lacking in comprehension of what account sharing is? Account sharing is classified as someone other than you playing/using your account with your consent. What makes this worse is that they made money off this which is akin to gold seller services. Normal cases this would of been a permaban easily for both sides, the dealer and the purchaser. Though I’m guessing the offending players get special treatment that exempt them from real consequence. People defending offenses are either supporters of things like this or blindly following offenders.

Lucentfir.7430:

Faux Play.6104:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Faux Play.6104:

How many people have been perma banned for buying gold? How many have been banned for having someone run raids for them?

How should I know how many people are banned? If proof exists (hint: in this case there is), they should be punished. Your logic seems to be if other players got away with it, these guys should get a pass too.

Are you intentionally being dense? Selling raids is purely an in game gold interaction. Gold selling and what these players did was sell a service for real life money. I’d rate this worse personally because doing this type of nonsense in a pvp setting should be unacceptable.

By your logic, should people get banned for making money from their twitch account? Account sharing is account sharing.

Seriously lacking in comprehension of what account sharing is? Account sharing is classified as someone other than you playing/using your account with your consent. What makes this worse is that they made money off this which is akin to gold seller services. Normal cases this would of been a permaban easily for both sides, the dealer and the purchaser. Though I’m guessing the offending players get special treatment that exempt them from real consequence. People defending offenses are either supporters of things like this or blindly following offenders.

Seems like the forum can’t handle too many quotes so the original context is lost. The point I’m trying to make is people account share to get PvE rewards, e.g. get someone to run a holiday jumping puzzle or raid instance for them.

The other point I’m trying to make is condemning all real money transactions is a slippery slope. Many streamers in games offer additional services to paid subscribers to their stream. Maybe it is extra tip videos that aren’t available to the public, in game dueling practice, partying privileges etc.

It is already been pointed out by others that people are being hypocritical. If all people that ever made a real money transaction in the game, or logged into someone else’s account got perma banned we would lose a significant portion of the community.

The qwertyui guy that is selling gold in the public channel isn’t playing on a legit copy of the game. They are on hacked accounts and should not factor into this discussion.

Faux Play.6104:

Not all of them were dishonored. The original post didn’t say they couldn’t buy new accounts and play.

It says Toker AND ALTS. Alts would appear to apply to any accounts they have whether new or not.

morrolan.9608:

Faux Play.6104:

Not all of them were dishonored. The original post didn’t say they couldn’t buy new accounts and play.

It says Toker AND ALTS. Alts would appear to apply to any accounts they have whether new or not.

Clearly not…

Shown by Anet’s decision, since you know they are the ones who made both and enforce their decisions.

to be cynical- do y’all want these players banned for any reason but to prove gw2 pvp is not a joke?

if that’s the reason, it’s not a good one. because it wont work.

===

if that line didn’t work with you, consider this:
why would a game company ban popular streamers who make them money? especially with the expansion coming. it’s just a poor move. these people make anet money, & anet quite blatantly doesn’t care about the competitive pvp scene at all- so like why would they actually ban the new accounts they buy?

because a few forum personalities are outraged?
good joke.

because they deeply care about pvp being seen as competitive in the wider community?
obviously not. exploiting & afking are still rampant & unpunished, & anet euthanised their own competitive scene.

so, i just can’t see a compelling reason for anet to ban these new accounts. i mean they want toker & co streaming, advertising their game & shilling PoF, & that can’t happen if he’s perma banned from pvp on all accounts. the free advertising from streamers is so much more valuable than the opinions of a few forum personalities. heck, they can even delete this thread & further ones like it if they want.

morrolan.9608:

Faux Play.6104:

Not all of them were dishonored. The original post didn’t say they couldn’t buy new accounts and play.

It says Toker AND ALTS. Alts would appear to apply to any accounts they have whether new or not.

I don’t’ remember marvin being banned.

TL;DR: so far, the pro-ban side argued justice should be served properly, or else it’s a joke. The pro-violators side argued the ends justify the means. And since ignoring this makes more money for ANet, it’s fine.

Faux Play.6104:

morrolan.9608:

Faux Play.6104:

Not all of them were dishonored. The original post didn’t say they couldn’t buy new accounts and play.

It says Toker AND ALTS. Alts would appear to apply to any accounts they have whether new or not.

I don’t’ remember marvin being banned.

Hence why I didn’t mention him.

morrolan.9608:

Faux Play.6104:

morrolan.9608:

Faux Play.6104:

Not all of them were dishonored. The original post didn’t say they couldn’t buy new accounts and play.

It says Toker AND ALTS. Alts would appear to apply to any accounts they have whether new or not.

I don’t’ remember marvin being banned.

Hence why I didn’t mention him.

Both my statements were accurate. Marvin was not banned. Also refer here to the dishonor: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Missing-Statues-for-Monthly/first#post6724692

Sunshine.5014:

TL;DR: so far, the pro-ban side argued justice should be served properly, or else it’s a joke. The pro-violators side argued the ends justify the means. And since ignoring this makes more money for ANet, it’s fine.

No. They took away their accounts they had and said they couldn’t use them for PvP. They didn’t say they couldn’t buy a new account and play. Most of them had very significant unlocks on those accounts that they can’t use. That is punishment enough IMO.

Faux Play.6104:

Lucentfir.7430:

Faux Play.6104:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Faux Play.6104:

How many people have been perma banned for buying gold? How many have been banned for having someone run raids for them?

How should I know how many people are banned? If proof exists (hint: in this case there is), they should be punished. Your logic seems to be if other players got away with it, these guys should get a pass too.

Are you intentionally being dense? Selling raids is purely an in game gold interaction. Gold selling and what these players did was sell a service for real life money. I’d rate this worse personally because doing this type of nonsense in a pvp setting should be unacceptable.

By your logic, should people get banned for making money from their twitch account? Account sharing is account sharing.

Seriously lacking in comprehension of what account sharing is? Account sharing is classified as someone other than you playing/using your account with your consent. What makes this worse is that they made money off this which is akin to gold seller services. Normal cases this would of been a permaban easily for both sides, the dealer and the purchaser. Though I’m guessing the offending players get special treatment that exempt them from real consequence. People defending offenses are either supporters of things like this or blindly following offenders.

Seems like the forum can’t handle too many quotes so the original context is lost. The point I’m trying to make is people account share to get PvE rewards, e.g. get someone to run a holiday jumping puzzle or raid instance for them.

The other point I’m trying to make is condemning all real money transactions is a slippery slope. Many streamers in games offer additional services to paid subscribers to their stream. Maybe it is extra tip videos that aren’t available to the public, in game dueling practice, partying privileges etc.

It is already been pointed out by others that people are being hypocritical. If all people that ever made a real money transaction in the game, or logged into someone else’s account got perma banned we would lose a significant portion of the community.

The qwertyui guy that is selling gold in the public channel isn’t playing on a legit copy of the game. They are on hacked accounts and should not factor into this discussion.

You fail to understand the point itself, and bring in other people account sharing on the PVE side of things. Breaking the ToS is breaking the ToS, you’re implicating that I think or other people think it should be tolerated on the PVE side of things when it’s in the same ball park. It’s still breaking the ToS. To even plainly put it is ’don’t play on a account you do not own.’ That’s it, in terms of account sharing. Not only that but the people that already do this in terms of PVE don’t make it very obvious it’s account sharing meaning it’s harder for Anet to nail offenders. It even makes it more difficult if account sharing happens in the same household, which might as well be owner(s) of the accounts.

There isn’t a slippery slope, making money off of knowledge and sharing wisdom isn’t the same as ‘play as me and, win me rewards’, and also very different from, be part of my club for a fee, and we’ll let you know the password to our custom server. Subscribers to streams shouldn’t even be brought up, since streaming is its own service and the content always has a variable to change, it’s entertainment that serves no other purpose but entertainment and viewing, and subscribers normally subscribe because they want to support that streamer, appreciating the time they spent in the channel.

The situation we ‘had’ here, is players that obviously broke the ToS with account sharing, made money for playing on accounts they did not own, in a tournament no less for prestigious rewards, for paying players. Also some of them having history of exploiting in the past. Further ruining the integrity of PVP, or rather whatever was left. Not only that but avoiding a consequence given that’s supposed to stop offending players from playing in ranked and unranked, but by-pass this anyway by playing on alternate accounts. By all logic this should of been a sure permaban for main and alt accounts of offending players rather than permanent dishonor, but since these players are a special case they’re exempt from any real severe punishment. This just sends the message it’s okay to break the ToS and exploit where you can, which i do not support.

Lucentfir.7430:

Faux Play.6104:

Lucentfir.7430:

Faux Play.6104:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Faux Play.6104:

How many people have been perma banned for buying gold? How many have been banned for having someone run raids for them?

How should I know how many people are banned? If proof exists (hint: in this case there is), they should be punished. Your logic seems to be if other players got away with it, these guys should get a pass too.

Are you intentionally being dense? Selling raids is purely an in game gold interaction. Gold selling and what these players did was sell a service for real life money. I’d rate this worse personally because doing this type of nonsense in a pvp setting should be unacceptable.

By your logic, should people get banned for making money from their twitch account? Account sharing is account sharing.

Seriously lacking in comprehension of what account sharing is? Account sharing is classified as someone other than you playing/using your account with your consent. What makes this worse is that they made money off this which is akin to gold seller services. Normal cases this would of been a permaban easily for both sides, the dealer and the purchaser. Though I’m guessing the offending players get special treatment that exempt them from real consequence. People defending offenses are either supporters of things like this or blindly following offenders.

Seems like the forum can’t handle too many quotes so the original context is lost. The point I’m trying to make is people account share to get PvE rewards, e.g. get someone to run a holiday jumping puzzle or raid instance for them.

The other point I’m trying to make is condemning all real money transactions is a slippery slope. Many streamers in games offer additional services to paid subscribers to their stream. Maybe it is extra tip videos that aren’t available to the public, in game dueling practice, partying privileges etc.

It is already been pointed out by others that people are being hypocritical. If all people that ever made a real money transaction in the game, or logged into someone else’s account got perma banned we would lose a significant portion of the community.

The qwertyui guy that is selling gold in the public channel isn’t playing on a legit copy of the game. They are on hacked accounts and should not factor into this discussion.

You fail to understand the point itself, and bring in other people account sharing on the PVE side of things. Breaking the ToS is breaking the ToS, you’re implicating that I think or other people think it should be tolerated on the PVE side of things when it’s in the same ball park. It’s still breaking the ToS. To even plainly put it is ’don’t play on a account you do not own.’ That’s it, in terms of account sharing. Not only that but the people that already do this in terms of PVE don’t make it very obvious it’s account sharing meaning it’s harder for Anet to nail offenders. It even makes it more difficult if account sharing happens in the same household, which might as well be owner(s) of the accounts.

There isn’t a slippery slope, making money off of knowledge and sharing wisdom isn’t the same as ‘play as me and, win me rewards’, and also very different from, be part of my club for a fee, and we’ll let you know the password to our custom server. Subscribers to streams shouldn’t even be brought up, since streaming is its own service and the content always has a variable to change, it’s entertainment that serves no other purpose but entertainment and viewing, and subscribers normally subscribe because they want to support that streamer, appreciating the time they spent in the channel.

The situation we ‘had’ here, is players that obviously broke the ToS with account sharing, made money for playing on accounts they did not own, in a tournament no less for prestigious rewards, for paying players. Also some of them having history of exploiting in the past. Further ruining the integrity of PVP, or rather whatever was left. Not only that but avoiding a consequence given that’s supposed to stop offending players from playing in ranked and unranked, but by-pass this anyway by playing on alternate accounts. By all logic this should of been a sure permaban for main and alt accounts of offending players rather than permanent dishonor, but rather since these players are a special case they’re exempt from any real severe punishment. This just sends the message it’s okay to break the ToS and exploit where you can, which i do not support.

They got punished. However, people are going to extremes to try and punish them. They had to buy a new account and start over on a game that has been out for 4+ years. That is a pretty harsh punishment in my book.

Faux Play.6104:

They got punished. However, people are going to extremes to try and punish them. They had to buy a new account and start over on a game that has been out for 4+ years. That is a pretty harsh punishment in my book.

I would understand if this was a first offense thing, this isn’t a first offense thing for some of them. We’ve had game throws/ match manipulation, system exploits, etc over the whole course since seasons have started, and now this event. Things like this really need to stop. The punishment they were given isn’t a punishment, it’s a hurdle, especially when they were already alting to begin with. A real punishment would of been a ban for main and found alt accounts. The real loss of all earnings over the years would be a sticky one. Regardless if they continue to play with new accounts or not. Though permanent dishonor, something they loophole easily by getting a different account, does nothing. Dishonor purpose=You cannot play unranked or Ranked, what are these players going to do? Play in those modes regardless. They didn’t lose anything other than the ability to queue on their mains and sub-alts. They can still log in on them, send and gift their new account things and w.e else. There’s no real consequence for their actions, and this is why people are are speaking out about this.

Chaith.8256:

Ithilwen.1529:

To disobey game rules is generally considered cheating. It is certainly unfair to represent yourself as a much lower rated player, to get easy matches and deceive the matchmaker.

Yes, it was cheating by your own definition.

Lol this kind of backfired, the ATs use seeding so using a less established account places you in worse seeding, giving you better chance of tough enemies early on.. but nobody is saying they had a harder time, the mental gymnastics only come out when it can be established that they cheated

It requires far more mental gymnastic to defend the people involved than not. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but as PvPers (which they demonstrate) they aren’t bound by the same attachment to an account as say a PvE player would. That’s why the accounts used weren’t permanently banned, and were only permanently dishonored. That keeps the PvE players that paid irl cash for some one to play their account, which means your account should be banned. What they did violates numerous aspects of the rules of conduct (members of ABJ). If Anet’s stance is that it is permissible to dodge bans/dishonor by acquiring a new account (they have ip banned for less), then they effectively have no desire to provide integrity to their game, and they need to make that clear. Because, it is obvious only a certain other subset of players think this is justified. A very small minority.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

I think it is important to note, that had they played and won the first AT on their main accounts, they would be receiving praise. They CHOSE a different outcome.

Faux Play.6104:

They got punished. However, people are going to extremes to try and punish them. They had to buy a new account and start over on a game that has been out for 4+ years. That is a pretty harsh punishment in my book.

AP and the Achievement tab do not matter to these players, they are PvPers. You can purchase the account and jump right into PvP.

Vicariuz.1605:

Chaith.8256:

Ithilwen.1529:

To disobey game rules is generally considered cheating. It is certainly unfair to represent yourself as a much lower rated player, to get easy matches and deceive the matchmaker.

Yes, it was cheating by your own definition.

Lol this kind of backfired, the ATs use seeding so using a less established account places you in worse seeding, giving you better chance of tough enemies early on.. but nobody is saying they had a harder time, the mental gymnastics only come out when it can be established that they cheated

It requires far more mental gymnastic to defend the people involved than not. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but as PvPers (which they demonstrate) they aren’t bound by the same attachment to an account as say a PvE player would. That’s why the accounts used weren’t permanently banned, and were only permanently dishonored. That keeps the PvE players that paid irl cash for some one to play their account, which means your account should be banned. What they did violates numerous aspects of the rules of conduct (members of ABJ). If Anet’s stance is that it is permissible to dodge bans/dishonor by acquiring a new account (they have ip banned for less), then they effectively have no desire to provide integrity to their game, and they need to make that clear. Because, it is obvious only a certain other subset of players think this is justified. A very small minority.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct/

I think it is important to note, that had they played and won the first AT on their main accounts, they would be receiving praise. They CHOSE a different outcome.

I haven’t defended any actions that break ToS, save the moral outrage. Only thing I’ve done is NOT ignore the facts to fit in with the false narrative that banned players circumvent punishment. I’m just putting a little logic into 2 pages of pure emotion. Again, just for you, they didn’t dodge ban because Chris Cleary ( Developer ) has stated on reddit that they are free to play new accounts and enjoy the game, as long as they play on their mains, under threat of more severe punishment. I’m completely impartial by stating so.

Edit, linked reddit post because either nobody believes me or nobody is reading my words: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6vzcin/permanent_dishonored_players_to_participate_in/dm52kqw/?context=1000

choovanski.5462:

to be cynical- do y’all want these players banned for any reason but to prove gw2 pvp is not a joke?

if that’s the reason, it’s not a good one. because it wont work.

===

if that line didn’t work with you, consider this:
why would a game company ban popular streamers who make them money? especially with the expansion coming. it’s just a poor move. these people make anet money, & anet quite blatantly doesn’t care about the competitive pvp scene at all- so like why would they actually ban the new accounts they buy?

because a few forum personalities are outraged?
good joke.

because they deeply care about pvp being seen as competitive in the wider community?
obviously not. exploiting & afking are still rampant & unpunished, & anet euthanised their own competitive scene.

so, i just can’t see a compelling reason for anet to ban these new accounts. i mean they want toker & co streaming, advertising their game & shilling PoF, & that can’t happen if he’s perma banned from pvp on all accounts. the free advertising from streamers is so much more valuable than the opinions of a few forum personalities. heck, they can even delete this thread & further ones like it if they want.

no , games near death is anounced when they are full of cheaters/ boots and game admins do nothing againts, if peoples states that this is a game where cheating have no penalty game will be dead, and if cheaters are “famous” streamers they will be dead before…

megilandil.7506:

choovanski.5462:

to be cynical- do y’all want these players banned for any reason but to prove gw2 pvp is not a joke?

if that’s the reason, it’s not a good one. because it wont work.

===

if that line didn’t work with you, consider this:
why would a game company ban popular streamers who make them money? especially with the expansion coming. it’s just a poor move. these people make anet money, & anet quite blatantly doesn’t care about the competitive pvp scene at all- so like why would they actually ban the new accounts they buy?

because a few forum personalities are outraged?
good joke.

because they deeply care about pvp being seen as competitive in the wider community?
obviously not. exploiting & afking are still rampant & unpunished, & anet euthanised their own competitive scene.

so, i just can’t see a compelling reason for anet to ban these new accounts. i mean they want toker & co streaming, advertising their game & shilling PoF, & that can’t happen if he’s perma banned from pvp on all accounts. the free advertising from streamers is so much more valuable than the opinions of a few forum personalities. heck, they can even delete this thread & further ones like it if they want.

no , games near death is anounced when they are full of cheaters/ boots and game admins do nothing againts, if peoples states that this is a game where cheating have no penalty game will be dead, and if cheaters are “famous” streamers they will be dead before…

dude. what does that mess of words even mean?

are you trying to say a game is nearing death when its full of bots & exploiting/cheating, & the devs do nothing to punish them?

because dude, exploiting via afk farming & match manipulation is rampant, & there are quite a few bots in silver tier. anet does little to nothing to punish/discourage this behaviour.

so if ‘bots + cheating + dev apathy = dying game’ then dude, gw2 pvp is a dying game. which i thought was common knowledge. i’ve stopped recommending this game to anyone i know, the pvp is an utter joke- it’s not worth overcoming the steep initial learning curve to have to play such a terribly managed pvp gamemode. i’m not going to be buying PoF, that last nerf to warrior was the nail in the coffin for me. i’m not going to invest in this companies continued incompetence. i’d much rather buy a skin in BDO, & get excited about the prospect of my guild having a airships to accompany our navy.

still, streamers like Nos & Toker still get a ton of views (in the realm of gw2 twitch, not overall lol) regardless of the cheating they have done. i certainly haven’t stopped watching Nos myself.

A few people get to play monthlies again…who cares?!?!? It is actually a disadvantage to their lives to be allowed to play this game because it isn’t a productive investment of time. They could be getting top grades or working their way up to get a good job but instead they are putting another year after another year into a dead game. The joke is on them. They are punishing themselves. That 2k hours a year they spend on gw2 duelling 1v1 on mine could be invested into something productive.

Lordrosicky.5813:

A few people get to play monthlies again…who cares?!?!? It is actually a disadvantage to their lives to be allowed to play this game because it isn’t a productive investment of time. They could be getting top grades or working their way up to get a good job but instead they are putting another year after another year into a dead game. The joke is on them. They are punishing themselves. That 2k hours a year they spend on gw2 duelling 1v1 on mine could be invested into something productive.

Well said

Lordrosicky.5813:

A few people get to play monthlies again…who cares?!?!? It is actually a disadvantage to their lives to be allowed to play this game because it isn’t a productive investment of time. They could be getting top grades or working their way up to get a good job but instead they are putting another year after another year into a dead game. The joke is on them. They are punishing themselves. That 2k hours a year they spend on gw2 duelling 1v1 on mine could be invested into something productive.

I’m training athletes for 12 hours today but I’d much rather be dueling at mine xd.

Lordrosicky.5813:

A few people get to play monthlies again…who cares?!?!? It is actually a disadvantage to their lives to be allowed to play this game because it isn’t a productive investment of time. They could be getting top grades or working their way up to get a good job but instead they are putting another year after another year into a dead game. The joke is on them. They are punishing themselves. That 2k hours a year they spend on gw2 duelling 1v1 on mine could be invested into something productive.

Guess what, everything you do in live is ultimately a waste of time. So might as well spend it on a game. Everything will die, cool down and the universe will be forever dead.

great, it’s an old instance not a bug, now blacklist the dishonor dodgers and lock this thread to stop the public relations damage this thread has already caused.

insanemaniac.2456:

great, it’s an old instance not a bug, now blacklist the dishonor dodgers and lock this thread to stop the public relations damage this thread has already caused.

“Community opinion does not dictate player punishment.”

-ChrisCleary

Chris Cleary pre-wrecking your post before you even pressed reply!

you guy’s do realize they just made this thread just to seek attention right? Noone cares about statues, titles or Pvp in general anymore.

Mel.3064:

Lordrosicky.5813:

A few people get to play monthlies again…who cares?!?!? It is actually a disadvantage to their lives to be allowed to play this game because it isn’t a productive investment of time. They could be getting top grades or working their way up to get a good job but instead they are putting another year after another year into a dead game. The joke is on them. They are punishing themselves. That 2k hours a year they spend on gw2 duelling 1v1 on mine could be invested into something productive.

Guess what, everything you do in live is ultimately a waste of time. So might as well spend it on a game. Everything will die, cool down and the universe will be forever dead.

lol no its not dude. Playing a dead game for serious business is a waste of time. There are tons of things in life that help you achieve things. Your attitude sounds poor to me. Always try to be productive and to advance your life. That is what it is all about, that isnt a waste of time at all.

Chaith.8256:

insanemaniac.2456:

great, it’s an old instance not a bug, now blacklist the dishonor dodgers and lock this thread to stop the public relations damage this thread has already caused.

“Community opinion does not dictate player punishment.”

-ChrisCleary

Chris Cleary pre-wrecking your post before you even pressed reply!

Ben Phongluangtham said they would be banned from all seasons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-July-Monthly-Tournament-Investigation/first#post6659330

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

insanemaniac.2456:

great, it’s an old instance not a bug, now blacklist the dishonor dodgers and lock this thread to stop the public relations damage this thread has already caused.

“Community opinion does not dictate player punishment.”

-ChrisCleary

Chris Cleary pre-wrecking your post before you even pressed reply!

Ben Phongluangtham said they would be banned from all seasons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-July-Monthly-Tournament-Investigation/first#post6659330

Yes what Ben and Chris are saying are both correct… all their existing accounts banned for all seasons.

choovanski.5462:

why would a game company ban popular streamers who make them money? especially with the expansion coming. it’s just a poor move. these people make anet money, & anet quite blatantly doesn’t care about the competitive pvp scene at all- so like why would they actually ban the new accounts they buy?

The same reason the “big four” sports strip athletes of any earned titles and/or accolades and ban them from future participation in any affiliated leagues if they’re guilty of any wrongdoing: preserving the integrity of the sport.

Granted, Guild Wars 2 isn’t baseball, and I don’t expect ArenaNet to hold their players accountable to the degree the MLB does theirs, but you have to admit it leaves a pretty bad taste in one’s mouths seeing a bunch of players that were intentionally dishonored on their main accounts winning this month’s monthly tournament and having Chris turn around and say there’s nothing wrong with that. The Steroid Era did a serious number on the popularity of baseball, but the outcry would have been far greater if they turned around and told McGuire he could keep playing under a pseudonym. (And there’s still a very large contingent of baseball fans that dislike the fact that he’s on a team’s payroll as a bench coach.)

I am not going to tell ArenaNet how to manage their own game mode, but I will say that their wishy-washy handling of this situation will negatively impact the game’s overall integrity and health—at least as it pertains to PvP.

I got counter-memed. Well played Chris well played.

Chaith.8256:

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

insanemaniac.2456:

great, it’s an old instance not a bug, now blacklist the dishonor dodgers and lock this thread to stop the public relations damage this thread has already caused.

“Community opinion does not dictate player punishment.”

-ChrisCleary

Chris Cleary pre-wrecking your post before you even pressed reply!

Ben Phongluangtham said they would be banned from all seasons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-July-Monthly-Tournament-Investigation/first#post6659330

Yes what Ben and Chris are saying are both correct… all their existing accounts banned for all seasons.

So what’s the purpose of a punishment, if it’s so easy to get around said punishment?

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

insanemaniac.2456:

great, it’s an old instance not a bug, now blacklist the dishonor dodgers and lock this thread to stop the public relations damage this thread has already caused.

“Community opinion does not dictate player punishment.”

-ChrisCleary

Chris Cleary pre-wrecking your post before you even pressed reply!

Ben Phongluangtham said they would be banned from all seasons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-July-Monthly-Tournament-Investigation/first#post6659330

Yes what Ben and Chris are saying are both correct… all their existing accounts banned for all seasons.

So what’s the purpose of a punishment, if it’s so easy to get around said punishment?

Idk, why you asking me

Chaith.8256:

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

insanemaniac.2456:

great, it’s an old instance not a bug, now blacklist the dishonor dodgers and lock this thread to stop the public relations damage this thread has already caused.

“Community opinion does not dictate player punishment.”

-ChrisCleary

Chris Cleary pre-wrecking your post before you even pressed reply!

Ben Phongluangtham said they would be banned from all seasons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-July-Monthly-Tournament-Investigation/first#post6659330

Yes what Ben and Chris are saying are both correct… all their existing accounts banned for all seasons.

So what’s the purpose of a punishment, if it’s so easy to get around said punishment?

Idk, why you asking me

You seem to be defending Anet letting banned players in the tourney, so I followed up with a question to that.

Natto.5819:

So what’s the purpose of a punishment, if it’s so easy to get around said punishment?

Well, Guild Wars 2, while free to play, does depend on the purchase of Heart of Thorns and soon Path of Fire to be truly competitive in PvP. The punishment is that they have to repurchase the game if they wish to continue playing it, I guess.

Whether or not that’s a good enough punishment given the severity of their crimes, that’s obviously up to personal opinion. But I think the intended effect was for ArenaNet to make a little extra money at the expense of these players.

That said, their handling of this situation, I can imagine, has put off a non-zero sum of players and pushed them away from purchasing Path of Fire. Whether or not this was the ideal route for ArenaNet to take remains to be seen, but after this response and the general crapshoot the beta weekend was, I’m more interested in putting money into my Destiny 2 preorder than buying Path of Fire.

I’m sure I’m not the only one that’s lost quite a bit of faith in ArenaNet’s handling of the game and their ability to be able to make well-intentioned, educated decisions for the sake of the game’s future over short-term profit.

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

Natto.5819:

Chaith.8256:

insanemaniac.2456:

great, it’s an old instance not a bug, now blacklist the dishonor dodgers and lock this thread to stop the public relations damage this thread has already caused.

“Community opinion does not dictate player punishment.”

-ChrisCleary

Chris Cleary pre-wrecking your post before you even pressed reply!

Ben Phongluangtham said they would be banned from all seasons.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/NA-July-Monthly-Tournament-Investigation/first#post6659330

Yes what Ben and Chris are saying are both correct… all their existing accounts banned for all seasons.

So what’s the purpose of a punishment, if it’s so easy to get around said punishment?

Idk, why you asking me

You seem to be defending Anet letting banned players in the tourney, so I followed up with a question to that.

I have not commented on that once. I think you confuse my lack of hysteria over Anet’s decision to be anti-punishment. My posts ITT are to point out ArenaNet punished the players exactly what they intended, and that punishment is not further affected by community opinion.. the 2 facts that Chris Cleary outlined on Reddit

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mel.3064:

Lordrosicky.5813:

A few people get to play monthlies again…who cares?!?!? It is actually a disadvantage to their lives to be allowed to play this game because it isn’t a productive investment of time. They could be getting top grades or working their way up to get a good job but instead they are putting another year after another year into a dead game. The joke is on them. They are punishing themselves. That 2k hours a year they spend on gw2 duelling 1v1 on mine could be invested into something productive.

Guess what, everything you do in live is ultimately a waste of time. So might as well spend it on a game. Everything will die, cool down and the universe will be forever dead.

lol no its not dude. Playing a dead game for serious business is a waste of time. There are tons of things in life that help you achieve things. Your attitude sounds poor to me. Always try to be productive and to advance your life. That is what it is all about, that isnt a waste of time at all.

No point in “advancing” anything if you dont enjoy it. You cannot take anything with you into your grave, same for your potential children.

Chaith.8256:

I have not commented on that once. I think you confuse my lack of hysteria over Anet’s decision to be anti-punishment. My posts ITT are to point out ArenaNet punished the players exactly what they intended, and that punishment is not further affected by community opinion.. the 2 facts that Chris Cleary outlined on Reddit

The original threads by Anet said they take the reports of cheating seriously, and gave permanent dishonor to the players and their Alts. We players interpreted this as “all of the Alt accounts”, not “only the Alt accounts existing at this time”.

So it’s not so much the community outrage in asking Anet to ban a player, but more of the community asking Anet to follow through on publicly announced punishments. The outrage here is that it appears like Anet doesn’t care about PvP, and it’s slowly turning into a PR disaster.

Mel.3064:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Mel.3064:

Lordrosicky.5813:

A few people get to play monthlies again…who cares?!?!? It is actually a disadvantage to their lives to be allowed to play this game because it isn’t a productive investment of time. They could be getting top grades or working their way up to get a good job but instead they are putting another year after another year into a dead game. The joke is on them. They are punishing themselves. That 2k hours a year they spend on gw2 duelling 1v1 on mine could be invested into something productive.

Guess what, everything you do in live is ultimately a waste of time. So might as well spend it on a game. Everything will die, cool down and the universe will be forever dead.

lol no its not dude. Playing a dead game for serious business is a waste of time. There are tons of things in life that help you achieve things. Your attitude sounds poor to me. Always try to be productive and to advance your life. That is what it is all about, that isnt a waste of time at all.

No point in “advancing” anything if you dont enjoy it. You cannot take anything with you into your grave, same for your potential children.

Advancing your life is not something that you won’t enjoy. My point is that playing this game seriously is incredibly unproductive. Sure you can do it if you like but it is a waste of time. Time that can be better spent doing a bunch of other things which will help you achieve happiness and self worth. And will help you achieve something in life. I dont want to be on my death bed and think back to wasting 7 years playing guild wars 2 seriously when the game is nothing. If you want that then that is your choice. But I am saying that it is not a big deal these people playing gw2. Banning them from gw2 would likely be doing them a favour in the longer term.

Phineas Poe.3018:

choovanski.5462:

why would a game company ban popular streamers who make them money? especially with the expansion coming. it’s just a poor move. these people make anet money, & anet quite blatantly doesn’t care about the competitive pvp scene at all- so like why would they actually ban the new accounts they buy?

The same reason the “big four” sports strip athletes of any earned titles and/or accolades and ban them from future participation in any affiliated leagues if they’re guilty of any wrongdoing: preserving the integrity of the sport.

Granted, Guild Wars 2 isn’t baseball, and I don’t expect ArenaNet to hold their players accountable to the degree the MLB does theirs, but you have to admit it leaves a pretty bad taste in one’s mouths seeing a bunch of players that were intentionally dishonored on their main accounts winning this month’s monthly tournament and having Chris turn around and say there’s nothing wrong with that. The Steroid Era did a serious number on the popularity of baseball, but the outcry would have been far greater if they turned around and told McGuire he could keep playing under a pseudonym. (And there’s still a very large contingent of baseball fans that dislike the fact that he’s on a team’s payroll as a bench coach.)

I am not going to tell ArenaNet how to manage their own game mode, but I will say that their wishy-washy handling of this situation will negatively impact the game’s overall integrity and health—at least as it pertains to PvP.

somehow i feel like you didn’t read the rest of my posts, or perhaps you didn’t understand them.

the fact you choose to compare this games pvp to MLB of all things shows a fatal miss-understanding. so perhaps you didn’t understand my posts either.

i’ll be blunt. the devs killed the competitive scene months ago. maybe you could have made the MLB comparison then, but not now. a more apt comparison would be a substitute teacher refereeing a soccer game in a PE class. that’s the level of quality & integrity gw2 pvp has right now.

so. have a think, anet cancelled Esports & does nothing about afking, exploiting & the bots in silver. do you honestly think they care about a game mode they are euthanising?

look at their treatment of this situation. look at the dev post that ignores the discussion & confirms that the statues are working. does it seem like the integrity of this game mode is something they care about?

have a think. look at the situation that arena net have created. think about what that says about them. then ask yourself if they think a competitive pvp scene is something they care about. then ask if they would care if popular streamers promoted their new expansion.

have a think about it. use your head. what do the facts tell you, what can you infer?

===

@Chaith
shout out for keeping it real. tell em

@choovanski
why did you even bother replying to Phineas Poe’s post? you’ve already said everything you said here in the post he only quoted part of. i don’t think saying the same thing twice is going to be impactful, i mean he thinks anet treat pvp like MLB. he’s living in an alternate reality.
what you should really be doing is finding out if this alternate reality where anet cares about pvp like the MLB association care about baseball is real. & if it is, you should try & see if you can transfer your account to it. i’m sure the queue isn’t filled with exploitation & bots like the one we have here, because you know- these devs really care. probably still have ESL there too, because it’s like MLB after all lol.
oh man, they probably have the terrain bugs fixed & do timely balance updates with changes that make sense. wow bet S/F ele is viable there too. dang man gotta get me to this new earth. grass gon be greener.

Some Juicy Reads in here! 8^)

choovanski.5462:

why did you even bother replying to Phineas Poe’s post? you’ve already said everything you said here in the post he only quoted part of. i don’t think saying the same thing twice is going to be impactful, i mean he thinks anet treat pvp like MLB. he’s living in an alternate reality.

I made an association, not a comparison—in a response to a question you made in your post that I saw fit to answer. You asked: “why would a game company ban popular streamers who make them money?” and I responded in kind.

That’s it, really.

If you want my honest opinion: I do not think that ArenaNet treats PvP seriously and I have truthfully lost faith that ArenaNet has the effort level or talent to even recognize the glaring problems this game is suffering from. It’s just critically broken in so many areas, and PoF does nothing to address them. WvW is dying out because of the condi meta on top of garbage server balancing and they saw fit to add Scourge and Firebrand to the game while advertising zero changes coming with PoF. PvP is dying out because of the lack of new game modes and Ben asserts it’s too much for them to balance even a 2v2 TDM game mode or give it its own queue.

The only area of the game that’s truthfully thriving right now is raids—content that really goes against a lot of what Guild Wars 2 originally sold itself as, which has subsequently resulted in a major shrinkage in friends list online activity following the launch of Heart of Thorns, even after the Path of Fire announcement.

You don’t have to talk down to me. I’ve been playing this game for five years and have thousands of hours invested in it. I’ve spent those years quite productively and had a great time playing it, but it’s becoming increasingly obvious that the ArenaNet that launched this game in 2012 is not the same ArenaNet that exists in 2017 and does not remotely exude the design philosophy or vision that got me to buy this game all those years ago. Yes, it still has horizontally flat PvP and WvW and there’s still some semblance of a living world on the PvE side of things, but at the end of the day it’s all incredibly surface-level content and ArenaNet has done very little to expand the game in any of these areas over the years, instead distracting the player base with pet projects and dead-ends.

If ArenaNet cared about curating PvP or maintaining any remote sense of its integrity they’d much more deliberately go after AFKers and match manipulators than they’ve exhibited in the past, which have done so much damage to the game mode and many players’ enjoyment of it.

Additionally, what Chaith is really failing to piece together in the collective outrage isn’t so much the fact that Chris accurately restated ArenaNet’s position on the matter but that such a position is being held in the first place. His comments from Reddit, verbatim:

> “If they break the rules again, they will be punished more severely. Is there a blacklist, yes. Are they on it, not yet.”

The comment appeared hallucinatory to me. They’re guilty of match manipulation and account sharing in ranked PvP, which they were subsequently dishonored for, and then circumvented that dishonoring by selling monthly wins playing on other peoples’ accounts—none of whom were banned from the game for this.

The Abjured literally ran an RMT/paid-service in Guild Wars 2 last month and Chris argues that while a blacklist exists, they are not on it “yet.” Zilent and Co., PvE players with accounts with thousands upon thousands of gold, are going to continue playing on their main accounts with no real punishment outside of not being able to queue into a game mode they never really played in the first place—or can simply play on an alt account.

I mean, seriously? What is it going to take for ArenaNet to sit up in their chair and even just act like they give a kitten? Because if any of you developers are reading this god awful thread, I just want you to understand that the only message being received right now is that it’s in my best interest to spend my time and money elsewhere, perhaps with a developer that actually values my investments.

Frankly, I just find it insulting that ArenaNet values the concerns and interests of other players so low that the actions of The Abjured appear passable to them; that having them win the August monthly on alternate accounts—after having been previously dishonored for their actions—is of no consequence to them. Or, to put it in Chris’ own words: the audacity of having “community opinion dictating player punishment” despite the completely legitimate criticism that Zilent and Co. cheated to obtain a title and promptly received a slap on the wrist for it.

It disappoints me to no end that the player base seems far more invested in this game than its developers are, and Guild Wars 2 years from now will likely be looked back on just like ArcheAge as the game that could’ve been if more talented, less short-sighted people were at the helm.

If nothing else, take under consideration the fact that the only post on the frontpage of the subreddit related to PvP defaces its significance beyond the reward scheme: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6wivt2/pvp_summed_up/

With the top comment reading: “If not for time gated rewards, this mode would be deserted.”

Phineas Poe.3018:

choovanski.5462:

why did you even bother replying to Phineas Poe’s post? you’ve already said everything you said here in the post he only quoted part of. i don’t think saying the same thing twice is going to be impactful, i mean he thinks anet treat pvp like MLB. he’s living in an alternate reality.

I made an association, not a comparison—in a response to a question you made in your post that I saw fit to answer. You asked: “why would a game company ban popular streamers who make them money?” and I responded in kind.

That’s it, really.

If you want my honest opinion: I do not think that ArenaNet treats PvP seriously and I have truthfully lost faith that ArenaNet has the effort level or talent to even recognize the glaring problems this game is suffering from. It’s just critically broken in so many areas, and PoF does nothing to address them. WvW is dying out because of the condi meta on top of garbage server balancing and they saw fit to add Scourge and Firebrand to the game while advertising zero changes coming with PoF. PvP is dying out because of the lack of new game modes and Ben asserts it’s too much for them to balance even a 2v2 TDM game mode or give it its own queue.

The only area of the game that’s truthfully thriving right now is raids—content that really goes against a lot of what Guild Wars 2 originally sold itself as, which has subsequently resulted in a major shrinkage in friends list online activity following the launch of Heart of Thorns, even after the Path of Fire announcement.

You don’t have to talk down to me. I’ve been playing this game for five years and have thousands of hours invested in it. I’ve spent those years quite productively and had a great time playing it, but it’s becoming increasingly obvious that the ArenaNet that launched this game in 2012 is not the same ArenaNet that exists in 2017 and does not remotely exude the design philosophy or vision that got me to buy this game all those years ago. Yes, it still has horizontally flat PvP and WvW and there’s still some semblance of a living world on the PvE side of things, but at the end of the day it’s all incredibly surface-level content and ArenaNet has done very little to expand the game in any of these areas over the years, instead distracting the player base with pet projects and dead-ends.

If ArenaNet cared about curating PvP or maintaining any remote sense of its integrity they’d much more deliberately go after AFKers and match manipulators than they’ve exhibited in the past, which have done so much damage to the game mode and many players’ enjoyment of it.

Additionally, what Chaith is really failing to piece together in the collective outrage isn’t so much the fact that Chris accurately restated ArenaNet’s position on the matter but that such a position is being held in the first place. His comments from Reddit, verbatim:

> “If they break the rules again, they will be punished more severely. Is there a blacklist, yes. Are they on it, not yet.”

The comment appeared hallucinatory to me. They’re guilty of match manipulation and account sharing in ranked PvP, which they were subsequently dishonored for, and then circumvented that dishonoring by selling monthly wins playing on other peoples’ accounts—none of whom were banned from the game for this.

The Abjured literally ran an RMT/paid-service in Guild Wars 2 last month and Chris argues that while a blacklist exists, they are not on it “yet.” Zilent and Co., PvE players with accounts with thousands upon thousands of gold, are going to continue playing on their main accounts with no real punishment outside of not being able to queue into a game mode they never really played in the first place—or can simply play on an alt account.

I mean, seriously? What is it going to take for ArenaNet to sit up in their chair and even just act like they give a kitten? Because if any of you developers are reading this god awful thread, I just want you to understand that the only message being received right now is that it’s in my best interest to spend my time and money elsewhere, perhaps with a developer that actually values my investments.

Frankly, I just find it insulting that ArenaNet values the concerns and interests of other players so low that the actions of The Abjured appear passable to them; that having them win the August monthly on alternate accounts—after having been previously dishonored for their actions—is of no consequence to them. Or, to put it in Chris’ own words: the audacity of having “community opinion dictating player punishment” despite the completely legitimate criticism that Zilent and Co. cheated to obtain a title and promptly received a slap on the wrist for it.

It disappoints me to no end that the player base seems far more invested in this game than its developers are, and Guild Wars 2 years from now will likely be looked back on just like ArcheAge as the game that could’ve been if more talented, less short-sighted people were at the helm.

If nothing else, take under consideration the fact that the only post on the frontpage of the subreddit related to PvP defaces its significance beyond the reward scheme: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6wivt2/pvp_summed_up/

With the top comment reading: “If not for time gated rewards, this mode would be deserted.”

This guy is making a mountain out of a mound. This is non of anyone’s business anymore. This became old news once it was proven that you violate ToS you get punished, potentially blacklisted without the opportunity to play ever again. Move on instead of QQ’ing about something that isn’t affecting you. Don’t be mad ANet isn’t a tyrant company, be glad they show mercy and give people an extra chance. If you want crucifixion enjoy the many instances over history.

This is my only post for this thread. Peace homies.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Additionally, what Chaith is really failing to piece together in the collective outrage isn’t so much the fact that Chris accurately restated ArenaNet’s position on the matter but that such a position is being held in the first place.

Everyone i responded to says: “but ArenaNet announced it with intention they couldn’t play PvP again, even on new accounts!”

Those that do understand it was never intended to be an indefinite rolling dishonor for their IP address, sure you may be deeply offended and disagree. I’m just pointing out that nothing happens when you’re offended & Chris Cleary has backed this up.

The abj do a lot for the game and spark competition.Nos/Toker/zero have all been content creators and will give the community the meta builds, vods and commentary which will do great things for the game after PoF comes out.
Anet punished them already very harshly and it’s time to get over the fact that everyone else might have to “git gud”.The funny part is that the people complaining on this forum would never even participate and even aim to win the top prizes offered in the Monthly Ats etc.
While the original stance saying that “abj and alts” would be banned permanently from pvp was certainly misleading a Dev replied and cleared this misunderstanding.Any further complaining about this situation is fruitless and won’t accomplish anything.

Skittledness.5106:

The abj do a lot for the game and spark competition.

Power vacuums spark far more competition than a singular apex team winning every tourney.

I’ve done PvP in a lot of games, and I’ve never seen a case where having a dominant team that wins everything did anything good for the competative community.

People shouldn’t misconstrue the bans laid out by anet. They did what they said to do, and people aren’t in the position to be deciding these kind of things.

But, the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like when you unnecessarily name your team “Reformed manipulators” or “Cheaters always find a way” for the monthly AT, you mock anet and the community. You’ve essentially given everyone the middle finger. I’m sure it gave a few chuckles, but did you really find it that important to make a point?

Skittledness.5106:

The funny part is that the people complaining on this forum would never even participate and even aim to win the top prizes offered in the Monthly Ats etc.

As a working professional I admit I don’t have the time to compete at a level necessary to win a monthly tournament. I doubt I much have the talent either, but that’s neither here nor there. The Abjured did a lot more to deface PvP than just selling the August monthly tournament win, and you of all people should be well aware just how rampant the match manipulation has been over the past several seasons of ranked PvP, which is what originally got them dishonored from participating in the August monthly tournament in the first place. The fact that you insinuate that the general population that doesn’t participate in monthly ATs hasn’t been affected by their actions is patently absurd.

But if y’all don’t care about any of that, or just see that as water under the bridge, that’s fine. I’ll make my point and take my leave. But season five is a perfect illustration of the inevitable fate of Guild Wars 2 and its community. No matter how large an influx in players we’ll get, ArenaNet can’t do anything to maintain it, and the top-end PvP community will do everything in their power to manufacture some kind of drama that will inevitably deface any progress made to build any real community.

Whether you like to admit it or not, you guys need low-plat players like myself to populate ranked PvP and ArenaNet and the Abjured are doing everything in their collective power to push us away. Otherwise Guild Wars 2 will continue to fall into the inevitable heat death of matchmaking trying to pair keyboard turners with ESL players.

Aeroxe.8140:

People shouldn’t misconstrue the bans laid out by anet. They did what they said to do, and people aren’t in the position to be deciding these kind of things.

But, the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like when you unnecessarily name your team “Reformed manipulators” or “Cheaters always find a way” for the monthly AT, you mock anet and the community. You’ve essentially given everyone the middle finger. I’m sure it gave a few chuckles, but did you really find it that important to make a point?

Did zeromis & friends really name their team that?