Guild Wars 2

I don’t see any balancing in this regard. fast classes with hit and run are just so much better.

+1. necro bunker is a solid bunker, but due to nonexistent mobility, teams prefer to run engi and ele bunkers to reinforce other points when needed.

… ? Just switch to a warhorn real quick and give yourself quickness?

Teabaker.9524:

… ? Just switch to a warhorn real quick and give yourself quickness?

many classes have constant swiftness with nearly no draw backs. Also cloaking to run away and traverse is another huge imbalance in terms of mobility.

Once you play a high mobility class, you don’t go back.

guys pls balance mobility, i see classes moving different speedds
how can devs let this imbalance stand
outrageious
/canttelliftrolling

thieves are completely out of control, and eles shouldnt be able to achieve perma swiftness so easily. they gotta give up some tank, or something.

nerva.7940:

thieves are completely out of control, and eles shouldnt be able to achieve perma swiftness so easily. they gotta give up some tank, or something.

Well I will give you a somewhat counter argument but the thing that always has to be remembered is that mobility is not dps it doesn’t win fight it helps you survive them. That being said…..

Perma-swiftness while being a relatively easy skill combo requires you to spec a very specific way and to burn cool downs needed for dps. If you choose to run that what your weighing CD that might save your life or win a fight. You don’t get both. Our skills are also on long Cooldown so this does require some though.

The thing that has to be pointed out is that Perma-swiftness is not mobility if that were the case may rifle warrior would be my best toon for running away. Mobility comes from skills and that’s about it. If your smart you’ll realize D/D mobility can be destroyed by immobilize. funny thing is we say it all the time. We know the class best. If you save you immobilize for right after water you likely have us.

Tank is tanky. Its going to take hits. And its also going to run away and its not going to one shot you. We lose a lot of dps across the board. The reason most don’t notice is that they run glass builds closing that gap. That’s no ones fault. Balanced vs balanced = long fights period mobile or not.

For necros you really only need 2 skills and you pretty much have a decent counter http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spectral_Grasp and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dark_Pact due to the number of conditions you have access to speced for it or not you burn DD cleanses. Making using these 2 skills toward the end of a fight amazing for you.

For more info https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/How-do-you-counter-D-D-elementalist/page/2#post890625

Basically though many of you haven’t realized its already balanced.

Some general notes

Cantrips http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cantrip break stun however they don’t remove immobilize the only one that does is http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Fire (they also have long cds across the board) . Many ele including myself run build where we cleanse a condition on attunement to water http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave_ (also note its only one). If you wait for us to shift out of water your immobilize will be more effective. While in water we have access to http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleansing_Wave however it has a long cd. If you watch for the animation (hand up in the air water particle effect looks kind of like a splash) and time it you can pop all types of conditions. Another thing to note is that the CL for evasive arcana is unusable while immobilized.

I honestly only sort of hope this helps I still play ele.

The thing with eles are, they can pop mistform at any time. Even if you lock them, they still can run. The down skill they have allow them to run again, means fighting any decent ele takes a while even if you can effectively keep up with them and kill them.

If classes are build to be fast, and able to evade other players, they should have considerably less dps or much more risk for them to strike. They should lose 100% of 1v1 fights if they can move faster.

It does seem odd how poorly distributed swiftness is. I mean every class gets some, but a few classes have extremely easy 100% swiftness combos and a few classes struggle. It doesn’t seem like there’s a great balance rationale for it.

The only profession that really sucks when it comes to swiftness is mesmers, but they can steal it with arcane thievery. It is hilariously awesome to watch a warrior pop signet of rage then steal 30s of fury, might, and swiftness. Or take the lengthy stability boon off a ranger who uses rampage as one.

Honestly though it isn’t a game breaker due to the nature of combat. Cripple is a fairly common condition that’s easy to inflict, and hampers you even with swiftness, chill is harsher. Leaps and gap closers exist, such as pulls. Differences in mobility are part of what make each profession play uniquely and how they approach combat.

TheGuy.3568:

nerva.7940:

thieves are completely out of control, and eles shouldnt be able to achieve perma swiftness so easily. they gotta give up some tank, or something.

Well I will give you a somewhat counter argument but the thing that always has to be remembered is that mobility is not dps it doesn’t win fight it helps you survive them. That being said…..

mobility absolutely can win fights (i.e. if youre about to die, you jump out, heal up, come back and rez a teammate), and it absolutely wins matches. there’s an obvious imbalance here, especially when it comes to mix maxing for tpvp, leading to teams just picking the fastest roamers to complement the bunkers.

nerva.7940:

TheGuy.3568:

nerva.7940:

thieves are completely out of control, and eles shouldnt be able to achieve perma swiftness so easily. they gotta give up some tank, or something.

Well I will give you a somewhat counter argument but the thing that always has to be remembered is that mobility is not dps it doesn’t win fight it helps you survive them. That being said…..

mobility absolutely can win fights (i.e. if youre about to die, you jump out, heal up, come back and rez a teammate), and it absolutely wins matches. there’s an obvious imbalance here, especially when it comes to mix maxing for tpvp, leading to teams just picking the fastest roamers to complement the bunkers.

Rezing a teammate and mobility do not go hand in hand (think about it). Notice the list of weaknesses I spell out after your quote. The funniest thing is the classes you can make highly mobile builds on are engineer, guardian, thief, warrior, ele, and mesmer. 6 out of 8 not bad. Fact is instead of screaming for nerfs ask for a counter because there are so many.

no prof is as mobile as ele and thief. theyre outright OP in this department, making them the best roamers, and allowing them the most survivability in the game, hands down. you just cant argue that.

Yea, balance mobility!

And give thieves and elemenatalists necro’s health pool, guardian’s defenses and mesmer’s portal!

nerva.7940:

no prof is as mobile as ele and thief. theyre outright OP in this department, making them the best roamers, and allowing them the most survivability in the game, hands down. you just cant argue that.

Actually, the ranger can come pretty close. There are rune sets and trait setups that allow for almost constant 250% endurance regen which is a dodge just about every 5 seconds as well as constant swiftness just from healing and weapon swaps. This can be combined with freezing sigils to slow other players or sigils that give 50% endurance every swap along with longbow/shortbow for crowd control/escape. This hugely mobile build is also super tanky.

I’m only really saying this because it’s no good turning threads like this into QQs about how some classes are overpowered when other classes have lesser used trait/skillsets that allow for the same thing.

guys, if classes have different abilities it’s unbalanced
devs, pls balance abilities so every class the same
then no one will ever complain again
thnx

For Faux Sake.8457:

nerva.7940:

no prof is as mobile as ele and thief. theyre outright OP in this department, making them the best roamers, and allowing them the most survivability in the game, hands down. you just cant argue that.

Actually, the ranger can come pretty close. There are rune sets and trait setups that allow for almost constant 250% endurance regen which is a dodge just about every 5 seconds as well as constant swiftness just from healing and weapon swaps. This can be combined with freezing sigils to slow other players or sigils that give 50% endurance every swap along with longbow/shortbow for crowd control/escape. This hugely mobile build is also super tanky.

I’m only really saying this because it’s no good turning threads like this into QQs about how some classes are overpowered when other classes have lesser used trait/skillsets that allow for the same thing.

Sorry to pop your bubble but I’m pretty sure endurance regen stats don’t stack (just like speed boosts).
And most of the mobility comes from skills not swiftness imo. (especially from teleports which can jump over huge distances).

@OP: GW2 is an asymmetric game, as in, each profession is ranked differently in terms of mobility, survivalability, damage and there’s an individual class mechanic for each etc. Some have more health pool than others, and some have more maneuverability than others. Live with it.

You guys are very nice…it’s really quite awful.

The Mythic games covered this territory and the lessons were learned. Speed boosts should be very limited, melee classes need relatively easy snares/slows.

But they advertised a ‘frantic fast-paced game!!!’ so they threw it all out and now we get people teleporting and speed boosting all over the place and Keystone Kop chase scenes instead of positioning strategies.

nerva.7940:

no prof is as mobile as ele and thief. theyre outright OP in this department, making them the best roamers, and allowing them the most survivability in the game, hands down. you just cant argue that.

Again, Just ask them to remove thief man, or play a different game. You have complaints about every facet of the class; save yourself a bunch of time, ask Anet to remove thief, and when they say no, learn to cope or play something else.

Thief and Ele have 40 or 80% less HP than the other classes (excluding guardian). Mobility means Not standing on the point which means not contesting/holding capture points in the only PvP mode available to us. Ele has light armor (lowest base armor in the game), and thief has no access to block or immunity skills, or protection/stability (not counting dagger storm, which in the current meta is corrupt boon bait). Their mobility is part of their survivability. If you take away mobility from the thief and replace it with HP and immune skills (and you will have to replace it, because without mobility a thief is a free kill), congratulations, you just made a slightly less armored Warrior.

Edit: Lets also not forget that the point of Conquest isn’t “Down the most players in the time allotted.” If you chased an Ele or Thief off the point, Congratulations – you won that fight.

nerva.7940:

thieves are completely out of control, and eles shouldnt be able to achieve perma swiftness so easily. they gotta give up some tank, or something.

Having the lowest armor and the lowest HP isn’t enought to deserve a good mobility ?

Esrever.8613:

If classes are build to be fast, and able to evade other players, they should have considerably less dps or much more risk for them to strike. They should lose 100% of 1v1 fights if they can move faster.

They have considerably WAY less HP and weakest armor, that’s already a great risk.

Resistence & mobility aren’t meant to be together.

Eles need at least 90% of their build based on resistance, proven by the absolute must have of 30 points in water, 20+ in arcana, and every item giving resistance stats.

evilapprentice.6379:

Edit: Lets also not forget that the point of Conquest isn’t “Down the most players in the time allotted.” If you chased an Ele or Thief off the point, Congratulations – you won that fight.

If you play competitively you know this is not always the case. Good mobility also adds in survivability. You can always hit-and-run to keep your opponents pinned up having to come defend a point and Thiefs/Eles can simple get the kitten out if things get tough (invisibility & mist form). Besides it also makes them good point defenders, or they at least buy time till the rest team arrives.

pedrst.3127:

evilapprentice.6379:

Edit: Lets also not forget that the point of Conquest isn’t “Down the most players in the time allotted.” If you chased an Ele or Thief off the point, Congratulations – you won that fight.

If you play competitively you know this is not always the case. Good mobility also adds in survivability. You can always hit-and-run to keep your opponents pinned up having to come defend a point and Thiefs/Eles can simple get the kitten out if things get tough (invisibility & mist form). Besides it also makes them good point defenders, or they at least buy time till the rest team arrives.

Not always the case means, sometimes, it is the case. Nothing is 100%. Mobility is a poor “Survivability playstyle” for capturing and holding points, its balanced by the fact that it makes for great roamers and harassment.

Thief a good point defender, now I’ve heard it all. Probably the backstab build as well, can tank so well. LOL.

And before anyone brings stealth into “defending point”, being stealthed means you are losing cap time on the point.

evilapprentice.6379:

Not always the case means, sometimes, it is the case. Nothing is 100%. Mobility is a poor “Survivability playstyle” for capturing and holding points, its balanced by the fact that it makes for great roamers and harassment.

Ember.4326:

Thief a good point defender, now I’ve heard it all. Probably the backstab build as well, can tank so well. LOL.

And before anyone brings stealth into “defending point”, being stealthed means you are losing cap time on the point.

I don’t know if you understand that harassing an enemy point while keeping yours is a way to also be defending your points, since you’re always forcing the enemy team to be present on their natural, you’re removing them from attacking your positions. Have you never wondered why you must have high mobility classes running through points either keeping them from being capped as long as possible (buying time and giving extra points for his team) and leave to help some other place (due high mobility).

Lets not mention that both these classes although being rather squishy have all the necessary tools to get away from the fight plus the damage that comes from being squishy (considering a dps focused Ele ofc).

Im not sure about you but I can 2v1 even 3v1 people at a point on my thief without going stealth a single time…. so yeah if you know how to play the class thief can be one of the best node defenders

Im not sure about you but I can 2v1 even 3v1 people at a point on my thief without going stealth a single time…. so yeah if you know how to play the class thief can be one of the best node defenders

Do show me video footage of you doing this versus people who know what they are doing. oh wait, yea, you can’t.

and pedrst, we don’t call that point defender, that’s a roamer.

pedrst.3127:

evilapprentice.6379:

Not always the case means, sometimes, it is the case. Nothing is 100%. Mobility is a poor “Survivability playstyle” for capturing and holding points, its balanced by the fact that it makes for great roamers and harassment.

Ember.4326:

Thief a good point defender, now I’ve heard it all. Probably the backstab build as well, can tank so well. LOL.

And before anyone brings stealth into “defending point”, being stealthed means you are losing cap time on the point.

I don’t know if you understand that harassing an enemy point while keeping yours is a way to also be defending your points, since you’re always forcing the enemy team to be present on their natural, you’re removing them from attacking your positions. Have you never wondered why you must have high mobility classes running through points either keeping them from being capped as long as possible (buying time and giving extra points for his team) and leave to help some other place (due high mobility).

Which is why my post specifically mentioned that good harassment was a tradeoff for poor defense skills. While actively defending a team point and assaulting an enemy controlled point are comparable, they are not the same thing. That bunker wasn’t coming to assault my teams node anyway, so by roaming over to his point and watching him ignore my damage (unless I go full glass cannon, at which point it becomes a “are my reaction times faster than yours” contest) all I’m doing is giving him something to do. The bottom line is that mobility for thief and ele is fine – its not OP or UP, its just about right where it needs to be.

Seragi.5910:

Im not sure about you but I can 2v1 even 3v1 people at a point on my thief without going stealth a single time…. so yeah if you know how to play the class thief can be one of the best node defenders

I’d love to see the video of you doing that, while holding the point, in a Paid tourney match against a halfway decent team. Actually, I’d be astounded, because I’d put money on the fact that it doesn’t exist.

Esrever.8613:

The thing with eles are, they can pop mistform at any time. Even if you lock them, they still can run. The down skill they have allow them to run again, means fighting any decent ele takes a while even if you can effectively keep up with them and kill them.

If classes are build to be fast, and able to evade other players, they should have considerably less dps or much more risk for them to strike. They should lose 100% of 1v1 fights if they can move faster.

Immobilize DESTROYS eles. I’m running mid bunker in tourneys one my ele, and for kitten sake I hate immobilize. My heals come from dodging, my mitigation is dodging, without this there goes half of my tankiness, cantrips are on LONG cooldowns, immobilizes are way shorter. Most helpless feeling for me is fighting multiple mid battles having all cantrips in cool down and being immobilized.

evilapprentice.6379:

Which is why my post specifically mentioned that good harassment was a tradeoff for poor defense skills. While actively defending a team point and assaulting an enemy controlled point are comparable, they are not the same thing. That bunker wasn’t coming to assault my teams node anyway, so by roaming over to his point and watching him ignore my damage (unless I go full glass cannon, at which point it becomes a “are my reaction times faster than yours” contest) all I’m doing is giving him something to do. The bottom line is that mobility for thief and ele is fine – its not OP or UP, its just about right where it needs to be.

Perhaps i used the wrong word when i mentioned a point defender, but rather a good harassment, it is fine. But what i’m arguing is the fact that, for me good mobility equals for good survivability, which in its own sort of way equals in defense. Perhaps not a “standing on the point” kind of defense, but still a defense. My main issue though is that their mobility is not “fine” if you compare for example, with ranger. Ok, no one in meta gives a kitten about rangers since players simple won’t play them. But in order for us to have an Esport and competitive play, things must come to a balance.

It’s not about just balancing the speed, but balancing it while taking other aspects into consideration: A Thief isn’t just good because he’s very fast and has tons of shadowsteps, but because he also deals huge amounts of DPS, is hard to kill for a so-called glass cannon und is even good in teamfights.

Eles are fast for example, comparable to thiefs in that aspect, but they deal much less burst, their combos are harder to land and have longer CD’s etc.

Why would you come up with the Idea to make all the classes move around the map at the same speed? There should be specs/classes that move around faster, you just have to balance it with their strength in other aspects of the game.

But first in order for us to have an Esport we’d need enough of a playerbase to form that around, which Anet is actively been destroying since betas sad but true.

evilapprentice.6379:

Seragi.5910:

Im not sure about you but I can 2v1 even 3v1 people at a point on my thief without going stealth a single time…. so yeah if you know how to play the class thief can be one of the best node defenders

I’d love to see the video of you doing that, while holding the point, in a Paid tourney match against a halfway decent team. Actually, I’d be astounded, because I’d put money on the fact that it doesn’t exist.

I would love to prove you wrong, but I’m not about to post my skills/spec all over the internet for every nub to see so it can be hot patched in 2 days sry 8(

hopefully we will meet in a paid and I would be happy to destroy your team solo

No offense to you seragi but destroying a whole team solo is far from reality

I would love to prove you wrong, but I’m not about to post my skills/spec all over the internet for every nub to see so it can be hot patched in 2 days sry 8(

hopefully we will meet in a paid and I would be happy to destroy your team solo

Sounds a lot like useless noise in the internets. Curious if you so wreck the paid teams on point alone that no other team seems to replicate your play and has anyone caught any sight of this happening on any paid team’s stream?

[why can’t I edit posts, this forum..]
Not to mention Seragi, you said yourself on forums here you weren’t even playing in paids and didn’t have a team 16 days ago..

So you ended manhandling the top teams 1v3 in 16 days? Wow, I must like have your autograph at the next IEM or IPL.

Ember.4326:

But first in order for us to have an Esport we’d need enough of a playerbase to form that around, which Anet is actively been destroying since betas sad but true.

Don’t get ur panties in a knot; that’s how it was for most MMO’s in the “post-WoW-Era”…

GW2 is doing fine compared to pretty much any other MMO I’ve played since GW1. ^^’

Tabula Rasa: Did this even have PvP?….. -.-°

DC Universe Online: PvP was total crap and there were no improvements being made or in sight at all.

Aion: yeah… right….

Age of Conan: It could’ve been good, but it just died off cuz nothing was really done that made me want to continue playing it in regards to PvP.

Final Fantasy Xwhatever: c’mon… total failure from the start

SWToR: Good foundation for PvP, but the support of Bioware was soooooooo slow on issues that are MUCH bigger than the ones GW2 is facing… Ppl were stuck on Servers with almost no population and PvP was only possible within your own Server… I couldn’t even play random hotjoin because there weren’t even 12+ ppl around on my Server to play with. And it took BW literally months before you were even able to switch Servers with your Char and that game cost me money monthly! Really, ANet is working at lightspeed compared to Bioware!

GW2 is pretty much the only game even worth mentioning in terms of PvP in the last 5 or so years and I have enough faith in ANet that they won’t F* it up. Also, we’ve seen a lot of changes in PvP already and they keep us informed about future projects etc.

never said anything about top teams or even paids in the first place but yes it is possible, just long enough for a roamer to help finish the downs

So now you aren’t doing it in paids? Well, I actively seek 1v2-3-4s on my thief in hotjoins too, I don’t pretend to be supermegagosu for it though.

You mean you once killed 3 people in a free tournament? Well I guess I still want that autograph! You can have mine and we’re like pub stomp buddy buddies.

Coz you know, I thought we were talking about 1v3ing people who know what they are doing, not stomping new players in hot joins. But I guess I’m too noob to meet you in the shark point where you evaded for 30seconds while sharks killed 3 people, right?

Ember.4326:

So now you aren’t doing it in paids? Well, I actively seek 1v2-3-4s on my thief in hotjoins too, I don’t pretend to be supermegagosu for it though.

You mean you once killed 3 people in a free tournament? Well I guess I still want that autograph! You can have mine and we’re like pub stomp buddy buddies.

Coz you know, I thought we were talking about 1v3ing people who know what they are doing, not stomping new players in hot joins. But I guess I’m too noob to meet you in the shark point where you evaded for 30seconds while sharks killed 3 people, right?

I really enjoy these forums, it amuses me how ignorant people can be and how cluelessly they flaunt it

I’m having a dull day, otherwise I wouldn’t be on these forums, and your posts humored me for few minutes with all the self contradiction you have tendency to do.

BTW Anet, nerf shortbow, it deserves it. Was expecting them already in last patch.

evilapprentice.6379:

Their mobility is part of their survivability.

uh, no it isnt. mobility is part of their domination. stealth is part of their survivability. why thieves can teleport all over the place while stealthing most of the time is beyond me. if you dont see how broken this is then youre obviously biased.

nerva.7940:

evilapprentice.6379:

Their mobility is part of their survivability.

uh, no it isnt. mobility is part of their domination. stealth is part of their survivability. why thieves can teleport all over the place while stealthing most of the time is beyond me. if you dont see how broken this is then youre obviously biased.

And a quick search of your last 6 or 7 posts (probably more, that’s just the amount I’ve seen) will show your bias. You obviously dislike the way thieves play, and rather than learning how to counter them, you come to the boards to complain about, well, just about anything thief related. Not even the common complaints, just these Out-of-left-field issues your having trouble finding like-minded support for even on the sPvP boards, notorious for crying about thieves. So give it a rest man, or take my advice.

maybe you guys dont understand how squishy thiefs are?! They already nerfd there dmg into the ground… even though it desperately needed it. You take away half of there means of escape(stealth being the other) and the class is non existent anymore…. no other class dies as fast as thiefs, no other class takes more strategy and planning then thieves do… we cant just run into a fight and hold our own. We carefully have to pick our fights, get it do some heavy burst, then G T F O of dodge or we die. end of story… no nerf needed

Give all bunker builds free blinks please and give them perma swiftness without any investment. Game gonna be bunkered to death by 5 bunker team roster meta.

guard, mes, and ele all have teleport already lol

Guard needs a target, mesmer/ele blink got heavy CD which means you’ll most likely not use those for mobility out of combat.
Anyway, the post was meant to point out how absurd this topic actually is.