Guild Wars 2

As a fan of the game who has watched every major tournament since Pax Prime and many, many ESL/Go4 tournaments I can say that tonight’s tournament was the worst and least hype tournament I’ve ever personally seen.

The fact that EzPz swapped out 3 of their players to alt classes (rev/bunk mes/scrapper) and it made a 400 pt difference to their game just goes to show how low skill the current bunker/condi meta is.

I will, for the first time, not be watching any more league play until there is a patch to these types of boring builds (especially bunker mesmer), which allows players to win without even trying.

Those clocks give me nightmares. Today I killed one of those mesmers with GunFlame (in hotjoin, lol)!!! Of course warriors in its current state will never make it to meta. But I just wanted to share that story with you.

The matches with multiple mesmers were NOT fun to watch.

It’s either a hotfix, or we’re back to square one when it comes to the general appeal of the game. HoT is a bit like a hit or miss for that new population (if there is).

I watched most of the matches today…. it was pure aids, cancer, or whatever disease you think is worse.

Neither team getting anywhere, no one dying, the few that went down would get resurrected in seconds. Condis are really unfun to watch…they sort of just…tick away…. you see hp bars jsut slowly fading away….nothing exciting to watch since most skills that apply them are just as passive.

Honestly this is a disgrace of Anet to launch and promote a PvP season, invest so much money and put so many hopes bfore doing the bare basic; balance their game out to a bare minimun such as that there is some diversity and counterplay

If you go to normal PvP you will see 3-4 mesmers, 2-3 revs, 2-3 eles and the rest usually engis or maybe a dh here and there.

Disgusting meta, terrible balance.

You know there’s an issue when multiple pro players speak out against the system. Anet, i implore you, hotfix the system before the next season.

ReaperJr.5967:

You know there’s an issue when multiple pro players speak out against the system. Anet, i implore you, hotfix the system before the next season.

or before people no longer care about the “next season”….

I think im gonna use this if a mesmer told me the L2P crap.

I agree with this thread. Honestly, the game has never truly achieved any semblance of balance, but they have gotten MUCH closer than they are now.

While games that have more diversity/viability between classes are able to achieve complex and evolving metas, gw2 always has simple, degenerating metas. Every time there is a major change, people experiment with builds. However, over time, it becomes clear what is brokenly OP, and everyone just grabs onto that. There isn’t any countering the meta, because the most OP builds don’t have “holes and roles,” but instead have mechanics with the least counterplay.

You can NEVER achieve balance, where every single build has strengths/weaknesses, when your only attempt at balance is to completely change everything every 3-6 months. Trying to change too many things at one time inevitably results not in evolving metas, but revolving metas driven only by patch notes. What is worse, because of the stubborn refusal to make any adjustments in between balance patches, this approach creates misery because people know they have to deal with the same frustrating builds, and in many cases, trying to use a useless class for way too long. There is no hope for change, and despair sets in.

As some would say…“all is vain”

I was unable to watch the NA matches but its getting really gross watching these matches.

In the ORNG and MGTR there was 2 points during the 3rd match when your like ohhh this might be a game changer. Nope a mesmer with 763 life got his health back up to over 10k in a matter of seconds.

Ive gotten to the point where i rather come to the forum and complain and watch the ESL matches (which i did for fun before) to the point now where i watch in disgust.

The other one was when Rom and another player had this guy down to less then 2k health and a engy ran in and popped off his turret heal skill and got him back to full life …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… really?

I really enjoyed the first week when you guys faced off against team PZ and other teams as well running actual dps builds. Everyone wasnt running bunker condi but this has become the biggest joke and im wondering why alot of the people on the forum didnt see it coming.

Alot people talk power creep and and DH nerfs but no one was talking the 1 vs 2 and 1vs 3 of bunkers in the game which i felt needed to change but everyone here said L2P. Hopefully anet actually makes a patch here in the next day or so because i rather watch people play pong before watching bunker vs bunker again.

As a viewer, I want to see these guys show-off as many of their skills as they can. The double Mesmer and Revenant compositions compartmentalize the game into executing a smaller number of skills. Thus, their presence severely limits Pro-League’s and its participants’ ability to entertain me. If ArenaNet wishes for me to take GW2 seriously as an E-Sport, they will need to make adjustments to Mesmers and Revenants as well as addressing small issues with Thief, huge issues with Warrior, and a mechanical rework of DH to make them less dominant against newer players and also more effective in league play.

Today’s pro league experience was the most painful and absurd thing to watch. It’s no sense how this game, after more than 3 years, is in this state. No one, even anet, could defend this. I bet none of the devs or employees watching or modding the channel enjoyed the matches.
Do something please, i beg you

Band-aid fix until balance patch: no class stacking.

Is this why the NA games havent been posted to twitch or youtube yet?

I was able to watch todays EU games just 30 min ago ( im struggling to log in and do dailies) but the NA games are no where to be found.

You posted this so of course i was a little bummed know the result of your match but i did want to watch it and i cant find it.

Side note helseth is hilarious. I went afk 1/2 threw the match, i let my hamster play. Dude is great

Extremely boring to watch the matches. No progress anywhere on the map, no kills, just bunker fights with anyone barely going down. Sorry, but ain’t this painful even for the players themself? Does ever anyone like the current state of PvP and the bunker mesmer-revenant meta?

butch.8136:

Band-aid fix until balance patch: no class stacking.

I would love to see this as a permanent thing in Ranked ques. I realize that this would SEVERELY limit the que, since it would be taking 1 of the 9 classes out of the options, but it would solve the problem of multiple classes that can be very strong.

Kycoo Grim.9463:

butch.8136:

Band-aid fix until balance patch: no class stacking.

I would love to see this as a permanent thing in Ranked ques. I realize that this would SEVERELY limit the que, since it would be taking 1 of the 9 classes out of the options, but it would solve the problem of multiple classes that can be very strong.

They would have to lock class swapping and activate profession mmr. In other words, highly unlikely.

Time for picks and bans…

Also if thief was good at 1v1, thief could outrotate all these bunker mesmers, and this would probably never happen…

Guys don’t worry. There will be a balance patch in TWO MONTHS to fix it all.

Notus.5769:

Guys don’t worry. There will be a balance patch in TWO MONTHS to fix it all.

Given past experience and their current trajectory, they will try to “fix” this by just buffing everyone to high-heaven again and the game will continue to get worse.

I have absolutely no faith in them to create a balanced and fun pvp game anymore.

If only we could have a balance patch in two months, but in the end, BlackBeard’s right… It’s going to be sooo disappointing.

That was super boring

ArenaNet stop being so freaking blind! At what point is any of this okay?

Not only was it extremely boring to watch, it’s boring and frustrating to play against, which is what everyone runs in ranked now.

Everything added since HoT in PvP is pretty much a disease. It’s fun when you are on the throne playing god as one of the stupidly imba builds, and absolute crushing disappointment when you are not.

This is the opposite of balance, the opposite of fun, and the opposite of esports.

Let’s hope ANET does the right thing here. We need some type of fix now.

Nah guys, money on line, keep chugging. Just…you know…suck it up?

Anet, you know you kittened up PVP when a competitive team made a post like this, and people spammed balance patch please during ESL. Just saying

Today’s games were comical. I’m glad I caught the final matches live, haven’t laughed that hard in ages. Looks like unranked to me, a bunch of players claiming to be professional, yet all falling to the same tactic. I’m not sure why the grand prize is so high or why this pool of teams were chosen to be best, but so far I’m unimpressed.

This team comp you speak of isn’t even close to the most OP composition. If you’re complaining about a bunch of bunkers bunkering around…can’t wait to see your post after facing 5 power stealth druids. Even with Anet trying to break the class, Druid is by far the most OP class of them all. And at the moment, it’s the most viable 1v2 class.

So maybe you pros need to get better is all it is. Every bunker can be killed. And thats no different in a group situation.

An easy hotfix would be to make some combination of Mesmer Shield4, Precog Well, and Csplit not have point contribution. (Not necessarily all 3).

Otherwise, a direct nerf to bunker mes survivability would unfortunately screw over the few remaining non-bunker mesmers. I think it’d be better to nerf the bunker mesmer’s ability to hold a point indefinitely via rotating evades and blocks.

next ballance p[atch february 2017. Keep calm and play revenants

hotfix the invul/evade well to prevent capture point capping. that alone could change things around a lot again

Continuum Split already doesn’t have point contribution. I think that should extend to Well of Precognition, especially when it comes to capping buffs on Temple of the Silent Storm.

On my last game last night in my quest for pips, I 1v1’d a tempest on point. I dozed off for like 10s and we were no closer to killing each other. Good times.

Csplit already prevents http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Continuum_Split
Invul on that well would be a fix. (Btw you can fear and taunt ppl out of it right now.)

It works just like Blurred Frenzy, so things like Shocking Aura still work. The issue is that, unlike Blurred Frenzy, that doesn’t stop the rest of the skill. What about making the wells channeled skills?

HoT really introduced a lot of anti fun skills, with low counterplay. like those op blocks that can heal you for a huge chunk of your health, just by standing there and waiting for it to come off of cd. its unacceptable to not balance the game after such a huge patch, for such a long time. like…cant you just tweak skill NUMBERS on a biweekly basis, until you need those large balance patches that actually change skill mechanics?

That would not be so good, since you want to nerf one well ,Not all (chrono and necro).

No clue why they haven’t followed other pro league games and just lock class stacking… the very least, same classes with similiar specs.

Would have fixed double Ele comps back when Abjured abused it.
Will better this meta; Devs wouldn’t have to struggle so much with the balances.
Lastly, it would diversify things a little. 5 completely seperate classes/builds/amulets per team = a more balanced game.

Imo, Ez Pz were utilizing the worse comp imaginable, having builds with minimum condi cleanses against a condi comp team. Like to see a Necro, a good DH and an Ele against those 3 Revs.

Or just give us a pvp and pve split of skills and traits. Then the pvp-team could Balance pvp and the pve -Team around pve.

+1… long time fan of the pro scene (as small as it is). This was by far the least fun I have had watching matches since the petting zoo disaster of pax prime. Please don’t wait 2 months to fix this mess anet.

The main thing I find disappointing is that ANet see quarterly balance patches as a good enough attempt, when anyone who’s ever seriously played a PvP focused esports game will know balance patches need to come monthly or sooner

This is becoming more and more like this unfortunately… I stay on the game because I like it and want to support the dev team and all, but all we get in return is them spitting on our faces, fulfilling every little newcomers/crybabies’ whims before hearing the wiser-but-less-loud advice from smart and fair people out there, fixing what don’t need to be fixed and ignoring (purposely ?) what need to be, and, worst of all according to me, feeding us bullcr*p that even a toddler wouldn’t buy… And so on.

Because of this new “meta” kitten , I’m loosing every day a little bit more of my interest of the game whereas, in all good faith, I really want to keep supporting the game. But there’s a point where even I can’t take this load of kitten anymore.

I don’t think people at Anet are slackers, so why ? I just think they are too ambitious and not realistic enough in their goals.

In my opinion, all this overpower thing is an ArenaNet tactic to force everybody to buy the expansion to win. A disguised form of “pay to win”. Similar thing happened in the past with new GW1 professions/classes, but after some time, everything was finally balanced/nerfed, I bet the same will happen to Revenant and elite specializations.

I follow the pro league since its start and I was really hyped to get into PvP but the more I watch and play the more it annoys me. Somehow this meta isnt fun to me and that really depresses me. (I’m pretty bad in PvP though but where’s the point in “getting good” if its not fun to play? :/)

This only highlights the continued need for a PvE/PvP balance split, and ANet’s continued stubbornness in refusing to implement it, just as they were stubborn about it in GW1 for years before finally doing it, to the great benefit of the game. How they have forgotten the lessons of the past is beyond me, but it is time to relearn them.

Honestly I though that after two " test seasons" under invincible turrets ( where the final tournament comp was looking like a 25 turret build) Anet would have learned to do at least a balance PASS pre season. A pass means they try to fix the grossest things and , you know, will keep iterating until they get things just right.

Did they do this for this first " pro season "? Of course not.

When i saw this, and colin on " damage control mode" saying that a balance patch would only happen after the tournament, at first i thought he was joking. Then I realised he was serious.

What Tarcis says here hits the nerve because ultimatly a broken meta impacts the very spirit of competition that we all want to see in spvp. Instead, we get MMR tanking, losing pips when someone on your team Dc/afks , “high level comp enforcement” and more ridiculousness.

I can’t say i’m impressed. It hurts to say this, because i love spvp deep in my heart.

Kaga.7629:

What Tarcis says here hits the nerve because ultimatly a broken meta impacts the very spirit of competition that we all want to see in spvp. Instead, we get MMR tanking, losing pips when someone on your team Dc/afks , “high level comp enforcement” and more ridiculousness.

Yesterday I won a game, didnt get a pip, after that I lost a game and didnt lose a pip either.

(Emerald league, Tier 2, 3/5 Pips)

I honestly dont unterstand how this system should be competitive at all if you can win or lose and doesnt get rewarded/punished for it.

Can’t you, pro players, protest ? Like both teams of each match refusing to fight ?

You could still have a winner by running internal matches to determine the team that will cap a point on stream. That would require trust, while there’s money to win, so I don’t expect much…

But I expect absolutely nothing from Anet for the next 2 months, and that’s just infuriating.

This game will never be balanced until they bother to split PvE/PvP balance and do balance passes more often than every 4-6 months.

You people are asking for nerfs to chrono, but if you nerf chrono no one will bring a mesmer to raids, because mesmers are already the LOWEST SUSTAINED DPS class in PvE, and the only reason to bring them is quickness and alacrity with continuum split, and if you nerf that and wells you might as well replace the chrono with guardians or more revenants.

It’s that simple. Hire more class developers because clearly you are undermanned on that front, SPLIT PVE/PVP balance, and do more meaningful balance patches more often.