Guild Wars 2

Just watched the vod from yesterday’s NA pro league. It is pathetic by watching Spooky, PZ, Final Form, and Never Lucky running the exact same comp.

Also watched the EU one, nearly all the matches end by time up (15 minutes) and both teams wasn’t even close to 500 points.

RIP to this game, when you see bad players that almost take a game from Abjured and defeated Apex, you know something is wrong.

#ANetPlsDoSomething.

So, OP lost vs Mesmer and now wants a nerf for over 9001st time?
Get in line.

P.S : I got a better solution, how about we just delete Mesmer from the game?

CruleD.7380:

So, OP lost vs Mesmer and now wants a nerf for over 9001st time?
Get in line.

P.S : I got a better solution, how about we just delete Mesmer from the game?

Guess how thieves feel.

Guess who’s next to get nerfgutted.

Gmtsai.6349:

For people whoever trying to called out Tarcis that he made this post because of losing, what are you going to say about The Abjured? They won, but they are pretty much on the same line with Apex Tarcis.

Looking forward for the haters’ comment on this one.

That’s simple, winner’s words are usually taken more seriously, because they won?

Bring back berserker proficiency and boost thieves to one shot stuff again. At least back in the day it was fun watching the ultimate glass cannon in this game run capture points.

And even if you don’t, do some soul searching and try to explain for yourselves, dear ANet, how a class in light armor is able to dish out more power damage than a heavy armor class.

P.S: Only a thief can force people to change builds rapidly into kill before being killed and you know it. Your turn.

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

messiah.1908:

But what gerenties other bad meta will arise
I see ppl hate condi as it’s not fun like pure direct dmg
But also 3 ppl zerging doing fast dmg can be boring eventually

The game needs more tactical decision making and not pure build excellence

I vote for 1 class for each team.
Also maybe each player must fill in 1 role so no for 2 bunker or 2 condi or full sustain party like
Roamer
Dmg dealer
Bunker
Condi dealer
Sustain
Support
Etc
Or some other variant
Than the game can be more interesting

The first part I agree 100% with, the 2nd part not so much. What you just described in the 2nd part is GW1, and those were 8 person teams; which was great. But GW2 was build around the concept that all classes can do all things to some extent. For that to work Conquest would be all kinds of screwed up.

even if there will be class restrictive it wont prevent 2 bunkers or 2 sustain
dd ele and engi
bunker guard or druid or mesmer
so just different class wont push the meta to shift because as you said gw2 want every class to be able to play every build and role. thus i think we need to think about roles and not class

like in basketball

you have 5 roles :
point guard
shooting guard
small forward
power forward
center

you dont see 5 point guard….

so try to implement it in gw2 5v5 pvp
each team has to create 5 roles and play with them

how to do it its a different story

maybe for each role the is 3 amulet and 10 rune to choose from and once been chosen no one can choose the same

Anastasis.7258:

Hi everyone, I’m Tarcis, the captain of Apex Prime.
First of all, I would like to make sure that everyone knows we are not depressed at all by losing today’s match.

It’s just the nature of the game, when two teams meet someone has to be the loser. Only time I’m really depressed is whenever my team is thoroughly destroyed by the other or even if we thoroughly destroy theirs, as if to think, “Yeah it’s great to win…but like this?”

In fact, we know that almost every teams in Pro League on NA are going to run this comp, which is 2 Sentinel bunker Mesmers, 2 Viper Revenants, and 1 Tempest. We prepared our kitten already and treating today’s match as a chance/practice to seek a weakness from this comp. Unfortunately, we didn’t pull out our A+ games and cannot seek any weakness in time.

I’m personally doing research on that too. By the time I find something it’ll probably be dated knowledge with future rebalancing. Chill should neutralize alacrity but I honestly haven’t been paying as much attention as I should. Reaper is optimal for chill but it can be kited.

The reason why I’m making this thread is because that I feel extremely disappointed when I play against this comp. It is not fun to play against, and I believe it is also not fun to watch. I do understand that everyone wants to win, but this just not healthy for this game.

It’s how Anet shuffled this season, they like shaking up the meta. Maybe it isn’t fun but it’s optimal and as such it’s practically a crime for a team not to run it or something similar.

The comp isn’t unbeatable, but the fact that this bunkiersh comp can eliminate the mechanic skill difference between players is not cool at all. In this stage, I think everyone can just make a team and play with this comp, and will be able to compete with pro league’s teams.

Yeah stylistic diversity is important. Some players simply gravitate towards a certain way of doing things. Two players could have identical skill levels but prioritize some stats or skills over others because they’re more comfortable with it. I strongly disagree with your last sentence however, the pro league teams have way too much skill for typical players with that comp to cope with.

EU are also running the similar comp but instead of 2nd bunker mesmer, they run marauder engi. In my opinion, both are similar but 2 bunker mesmers can be far more superior and more aids.

marauder engi sounds like it wastes all that good healing and condition damage potential, but I admittedly know very little about engi. Maybe its power damage modifiers are really, really good. In that case one could get good damage with celestial and not feel like sacrificing damage while the marauder would give already good skills serious bonus damage. Either way sounds viable to me but again I’m not familiar with engi.

I know the balance patch will not hit until February, 2016, but imagine that if we or no one else can figure out a solution for this comp, what will we expect on the ESL Finals in Cologne? I don’t believe that anyone wants it and I also don’t believe that Anet wants it.

I think saying Anet doesn’t want is accurate, if they didn’t they wouldn’t have balanced the way they did, or maybe people didn’t find the intended counter to this composition yet. I’m starting with warrior and druid, warrior is best up close but it can be kited, but once it’s in range (sword 3 is a gap closer and shield bash is an interrupt) can use shield, hammer, or kick to interrupt. Problem is stability, which a lot of classes have, but warrior also has some. Since warriors are tanky they can tough out some unrelenting assault, and have big enough HP pools to eat some burning from condition Mallyx builds.

Druid also has some interrupts, damage immunity, and an AoE interrupt. Celestial form gives good interrupts, healing, CC, and condition removal. A chronomancer can use alacrity to speed up the druid’s avatar form skills while in regular form staff and longbow should work with their CC, damage, healing, and cleanses.

I’m not 100% on that and it’s just theory, but sounds like it could work. Warriors may be far from meta but they do have interrupts, stability, gap closers, and good base defense (crusader, soldier, or marauder amulet?)

I understand the devs hesitation to split PvP/PvE and I think there are a few places that could be worked on before splitting numbers.

Well of Precog = Decaps the point. That’s not a major balance change nor would it affect PvE at all while bringing the bunker mesmer much more in line.

Add more unblockable/undodgeable attacks Tells can be added accordingly. Importantly, I think thieves need boon/block hate.

There used to be a warrior trait that gave the warrior might when the warrior was blocked (I think it was called Tantrum). Not exactly punishment for blocking but thieves could use something similar. ID and PS on thief respectively cause PI or torment when interrupting. Make one of these when blocked instead of interrupting: every time someone blocks your attack, X damage happens. Cannot crit/Ignores armor. Long channeled blocks vs quick auto attacks will be able to wear down bunkers without buffing thieves too much vs glass classes that they were already able to counter well in prior metas.

To add team presence to the thief, they also need a trait or skill that makes an enemy unable to block attacks rather than current buffs (signet of might/shiro/necro shout) that make the user’s attacks unblockable. Call it “expose defenses” (replace quick pockets: trait that now affects steal) and/or a trap utility that makes the enemy unable to block all incoming attacks for a few seconds making the thief and ideal +1 vs certain bunkers.

Thieves don’t need to be the apex glass cannon class and shouldn’t for the sake of class diversity but I think making them a bigger threat to certain kinds of bunkers while making teammates also hit those bunkers harder would not mess with PvE balance while giving them a much stronger role in PvP.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

I understand the devs hesitation to split PvP/PvE and I think there are a few places that could be worked on before splitting numbers.

Well of Precog = Decaps the point. That’s not a major balance change nor would it affect PvE at all while bringing the bunker mesmer much more in line.

Add more unblockable/undodgeable attacks Tells can be added accordingly. Importantly, I think thieves need boon/block hate.

There used to be a warrior trait that gave the warrior might when the warrior was blocked (I think it was called Tantrum). Not exactly punishment for blocking but thieves could use something similar. ID and PS on thief respectively cause PI or torment when interrupting. Make one of these when blocked instead of interrupting: every time someone blocks your attack, X damage happens. Cannot crit/Ignores armor. Long channeled blocks vs quick auto attacks will be able to wear down bunkers without buffing thieves too much vs glass classes that they were already able to counter well in prior metas.

To add team presence to the thief, they also need a trait or skill that makes an enemy unable to block attacks rather than current buffs (signet of might/shiro/necro shout) that make the user’s attacks unblockable. Call it “expose defenses” (replace quick pockets: trait that now affects steal) and/or a trap utility that makes the enemy unable to block all incoming attacks for a few seconds making the thief and ideal +1 vs certain bunkers.

Thieves don’t need to be the apex glass cannon class and shouldn’t for the sake of class diversity but I think making them a bigger threat to certain kinds of bunkers while making teammates also hit those bunkers harder would not mess with PvE balance while giving them a much stronger role in PvP.

+1 to that

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

. every time someone blocks your attack, X damage happens. Cannot crit/Ignores armor. Long channeled blocks vs quick auto attacks will be able to wear down bunkers without buffing thieves too much vs glass classes

utility that makes the enemy unable to block all incoming attacks for a few seconds[/b] making the thief and ideal +1 vs certain bunkers.

All the things you just described would affect squishies more than bunkers. bunkers can heal up that minuscule amount of damage you do to them, while that same damage to squishies is way more powerful (since health % is lower) and most squishy classes rely on those “oh sh^t” defenses in order to survive the already apex predator thieves have bene to squishies since the release of the game.

if you go back to the beginning of the game, you will see the main reason squishies were quickly drove away from the meta and into bruisers/bunkers were thieves (and mesmers to some extent)

A better suggestion is; amount of damage based on Effective health (not max hp% since toughness can be stronger in generalthen, and cleric would still be incredibly strong on bunkers)

Notus.5769:

Guys don’t worry. There will be a balance patch in TWO MONTHS to fix it all.

Guess what…in 2 month it’s going to be to late!!!!

I actually did happen to catch some of this tournament (about 10 minutes worth) on my spare time as I was browsing through twitch. I can’t quite recall who was playing as I don’t follow or play this game anymore for reasons I choose not to go into. But I was, rather unsurprisingly, disappointed to see a team running 3 revenants against a team running 2. I was left with a very dull presentation as to the state of GW2 PvP and the experience confirmed my initial impressions from just a few of my own forays of PvP at HoT release: the skill ceiling of this game has completely collapsed.

The biggest offenders: immunities, blocks, and evades on low cooldowns – a consequence of ANet’s necessity to balance out the preponderance of damage in this game. Hence the resistance boon – it is an attempt to help classes deal with one of the most problematic areas of the game since as long as I can remember: conditions.

It is unfortunate that the game has come to this. I played and enjoyed this game for a good long while but I personally see very little in its future. I hope I’m wrong.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Thieves don’t need to be the apex glass cannon class and shouldn’t for the sake of class diversity but I think making them a bigger threat to certain kinds of bunkers while making teammates also hit those bunkers harder would not mess with PvE balance while giving them a much stronger role in PvP.

So your suggesting to have thieves be the main counter to Chronobunker, doesnt this sound familiar with when thieves with stealth mechanics owning Mesmers before the trait revamp done by Robert Gee? Sorry, no. As a Mesmer main, I dont want to. Having thieves be a hard counter to Chrono essentially eliminates Chrono Mesmers from being viable in competitive play.

“the skill ceiling of this game has completely collapsed.”

If anything I think it went up because…

“The biggest offenders: immunities, blocks, and evades on low cooldowns "

This means you have more of their boons (especially stability) to keep track of and have shorter windows to exploit your openings and time your interrupts properly. Some classes can even boon strip or convert boons to conditions so there’s that dynamic to consider.

There is potential for this to be one of the funnest metas. Unfortunately, revenants and bunker memsers are not in a imbalanced, but broken state in my opinion. Which leave close to every team being force to convert to using these compositions. It is very boring to watch and play in. My team scrimmed the double rev, double mesmer, tempest team for hours the other night and by the end of the scrims I had such a headache and everything just blended in. If a balance patch cannot happen until the end of the season a one class limit per team should be considered. If something doesn’t change this could be a big disappointment not only for the players, but to the already hard to spectate side of things as well.

Like 2 dd ele team was not enough for a full year and a half.

Dustin.2793:

There is potential for this to be one of the funnest metas. Unfortunately, revenants and bunker memsers are not in a imbalanced, but broken state in my opinion. Which leave close to every team being force to convert to using these compositions. It is very boring to watch and play in. My team scrimmed the double rev, double mesmer, tempest team for hours the other night and by the end of the scrims I had such a headache and everything just blended in. If a balance patch cannot happen until the end of the season a one class limit per team should be considered. If something doesn’t change this could be a big disappointment not only for the players, but to the already hard to spectate side of things as well.

you know it is bad when even toker agrees….. smh

Jourdelune.7456:

Like 2 dd ele team was not enough for a full year and a half.

oh god the nightmare….specially since im 100% guilty of playing this too…… we need a proper balance between bunker and squishies…. i want to go back to be able to play marauder builds (that arent engis..)

rchu.8945:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Thieves don’t need to be the apex glass cannon class and shouldn’t for the sake of class diversity but I think making them a bigger threat to certain kinds of bunkers while making teammates also hit those bunkers harder would not mess with PvE balance while giving them a much stronger role in PvP.

So your suggesting to have thieves be the main counter to Chronobunker, doesnt this sound familiar with when thieves with stealth mechanics owning Mesmers before the trait revamp done by Robert Gee? Sorry, no. As a Mesmer main, I dont want to. Having thieves be a hard counter to Chrono essentially eliminates Chrono Mesmers from being viable in competitive play.

A trait that counters the shield doesn’t counter a S/T+GS shatter mesmer whether it’s chrono or base mesmer. The traits I recommend would still also be competing with whatever else the thief would bring otherwise. Taking the 2 traits I recommend means not being able to daze with a shorter CD on F1. It also would mean not being able to boon steal with steal. So this thief would actually be weaker vs a glass mesmer compared to the old thief meta build. The glass mesmer still also has blind on shatter which the bunker chrono doesn’t have.

Fortus.6175:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

. every time someone blocks your attack, X damage happens. Cannot crit/Ignores armor. Long channeled blocks vs quick auto attacks will be able to wear down bunkers without buffing thieves too much vs glass classes

utility that makes the enemy unable to block all incoming attacks for a few seconds[/b] making the thief and ideal +1 vs certain bunkers.

All the things you just described would affect squishies more than bunkers. bunkers can heal up that minuscule amount of damage you do to them, while that same damage to squishies is way more powerful (since health % is lower) and most squishy classes rely on those “oh sh^t” defenses in order to survive the already apex predator thieves have bene to squishies since the release of the game.

if you go back to the beginning of the game, you will see the main reason squishies were quickly drove away from the meta and into bruisers/bunkers were thieves (and mesmers to some extent)

A better suggestion is; amount of damage based on Effective health (not max hp% since toughness can be stronger in generalthen, and cleric would still be incredibly strong on bunkers)

“Effective health”
Cele bunker chrono has toughness runes and 560 toughness amulet. Would be ignored by the trait that I said can’t crit but ignores armor Also has 560 vit. Marauder amulet that most glass cannons use also has 560 vit. So the trait I recommend that does armor ignoring damage but can’t crit actually affects both classes equally but the bunker has a lot of stats wasted. Oh caTZ defenses that a lot of glass classes use are blinds, dodges, distortion, teleports. These wouldn’t be affected by the trait I recommend.

As I mentioned earlier, you still also need to think of these traits as what does the thief LOSE vs a glass cannon when they pick these kind of traits to counter a block based bunker. Not being able to steal might/fury or prot will make that thief’s damage weaker vs non-blockers.

Odin All Father.1702:

With the proliferation of skills that grant super speed i had really hoped to see a faster meta develop. For years it feels like they’ve been working to speed up gameplay, reduce time spent doing nothing, and increase time fighting the other team… it’s felt as though they wanted the game to be interesting throughout the game… they wanted to hear battle cries of “it’s not over yet!” even when teams were down a couple hundred points… seeing the bunker meta develop is unfortunate… I think there was too little place for bunkers in the previous meta, but the complete 180 is just a pendulum of bad.

The bottom line is this. You have people in charge at ArenaNet over balance who are very, very bad at their jobs. There is no question about this. it comes down to the community essentially outsmarting the developers and putting together these team builds that are very effective at winning, but void of fun. To be very blunt, it’s garbage.

ArenaNet should be ashamed of their failure. They should realize the damage this is doing on Twitch as players who are potential customers tune in and see mess that it is and also for seasoned players who know how far GW2 PvP meta had come before HoT. They could have made a decision to keep HoT Elite Specs out of ranked play this season and let them cool off a bit and balance them over a year. In arrogance, they didn’t do that. So this is what we have today. sPvP meta reduced to five builds with heavy focus on bunker/power or bunker/condi duos.

It is garbage and it’s the failure of a small group of people inside ArenaNet. Those individuals took the the most phenomenal conquest experience to be had in a game and they effectively destroyed it. Yet there is no public acknowledgment of this failure. There is no course of action being taken to stop the hemorrhaging.

So let them keep going. Lets let this kitten design continue to reveal itself as ESL Pro play continues. Let’s let GW2 become the laughing stock of PvP. Is this what certain epople want?

Playing PvP these days is a bit like being tied down and forced to watch as your best friend is being violated by their parent.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

slip

Ill put it short;

its nearly the most stupid idea i have heard on these forums. The one worse one coming from warrior forum that would like to have “evade hate” and bypass evade skills+dodges.

We might as well change thief to oneshot anyone with 17k+ hp if under block..

Dustin.2793:

There is potential for this to be one of the funnest metas. Unfortunately, revenants and bunker memsers are not in a imbalanced, but broken state in my opinion. Which leave close to every team being force to convert to using these compositions. It is very boring to watch and play in. My team scrimmed the double rev, double mesmer, tempest team for hours the other night and by the end of the scrims I had such a headache and everything just blended in. If a balance patch cannot happen until the end of the season a one class limit per team should be considered. If something doesn’t change this could be a big disappointment not only for the players, but to the already hard to spectate side of things as well.

Agreed with the one class per limit, not quite 100% on rev or mesmer being broken. I’ve been destroyed by a rev on a druid but put that down to me not learning quite how to counter yet. That was with celestial and staff too but relentless assault gives insane pressure and burst. Combined with chaotic release it’s an especially nasty combination. I don’t wanna simply not engage them since sometimes I’d need to challenge the point when teammates are elsewhere. As a druid I was 2v1ing by default and the rev still beat me. There will always be some classes better than others, then the balance gets shifted towards others. Elite specs are relatively new though. Before you’d have a top team running two elementalists, engineers, and a thief. Was that “cheap” of them? Of course not, other teams could have worked with the information the game gave them and determined the objectively best compositions,, builds, and counters. One class per team would be great to increase the scope of potential tactics and composition diversity and balancing does need a major overhaul.

“we need a proper balance between bunker and squishie”

I think only allowing celestial and allowing primary role be determined by rune instead would help towards that. People would still be relatively squishy, but not truly squishy. It would require major rebalancing however, but with only one amulet should be easier to balance around than the many we have. It could turn out to be a horrible idea so weeks of inside testing need to be done first.

Maybe prevent doubling up on amulets?

Dustin.2793:

There is potential for this to be one of the funnest metas. Unfortunately, revenants and bunker memsers are not in a imbalanced, but broken state in my opinion. Which leave close to every team being force to convert to using these compositions. It is very boring to watch and play in. My team scrimmed the double rev, double mesmer, tempest team for hours the other night and by the end of the scrims I had such a headache and everything just blended in. If a balance patch cannot happen until the end of the season a one class limit per team should be considered. If something doesn’t change this could be a big disappointment not only for the players, but to the already hard to spectate side of things as well.

Quoted for truth.

The easiest, absolute easiest thing they can do that takes no dev resources, nothing:

Talk with ESL and force ‘no class stacking’.

That’s an easy and (hopefully) effective bandaid until the balance patch comes in. Tbh this rule should have always been enforced but alas.

There’s 9 classes anyway. Options enough. If you want you can limit it to elites/normals too. So you can still have a reaper and a regular necro if you’d want that.

Anastasis.7258:

Hi everyone, I’m Tarcis, the captain of Apex Prime.
First of all, I would like to make sure that everyone knows we are not depressed at all by losing today’s match.

In fact, we know that almost every teams in Pro League on NA are going to run this comp, which is 2 Sentinel bunker Mesmers, 2 Viper Revenants, and 1 Tempest. We prepared our kitten already and treating today’s match as a chance/practice to seek a weakness from this comp. Unfortunately, we didn’t pull out our A+ games and cannot seek any weakness in time.

The reason why I’m making this thread is because that I feel extremely disappointed when I play against this comp. It is not fun to play against, and I believe it is also not fun to watch. I do understand that everyone wants to win, but this just not healthy for this game.

You may say “Hey, The Abjured still beat double bunker mesmers comp”, but if you guys realized, Final Form’s comp is slightly different than Spookie, PZ, and Never Lucky. They have a druid instead of a tempest, and even with that, they almost pull a game from Abjured. I believe Abjured can still beat the comp like this, which us, Apex, has beaten this bunker mesmers comp in scrims too. But the fact that the skill requirement for this comp is just ridiculously low.

The comp isn’t unbeatable, but the fact that this bunkiersh comp can eliminate the mechanic skill difference between players is not cool at all. In this stage, I think everyone can just make a team and play with this comp, and will be able to compete with pro league’s teams.

EU are also running the similar comp but instead of 2nd bunker mesmer, they run marauder engi. In my opinion, both are similar but 2 bunker mesmers can be far more superior and more aids.

I know the balance patch will not hit until February, 2016, but imagine that if we or no one else can figure out a solution for this comp, what will we expect on the ESL Finals in Cologne? I don’t believe that anyone wants it and I also don’t believe that Anet wants it.

Just my personal opinion here, and sorry for the broken English.

Tarcis.

Great post,
ultimately it’s on Anet’s shoulders.

They’ve been warned when they made the new trait system that build variety would be reduced. They replied basically this “it’s too early to tell, we’ll see”.

Before and after then they made a series of bad balance decisions and elite spec design mistakes. They didn’t nerf engineers turrets and Ice Bow for example, they removed it from the game. This is just an example, there is much more: Chronomancer and Reaper got a great elite spec while the elementalist class was cornered into a bunker support bot with a lame Warhorn. I’m gonna skip Dragon Hunter and Revenant, because we all know Revenants hammer 2 and Traps are fine right? Or the amount of immobilize a druid can stack… /sarcasm

This game was at its most balanced 1 year after the release, when turrets engis were the only thing people were complaining about. Now it’s free to play and honestly I think it’s just going to get worse.

Luckily Overwatch is just around the corner.

Someone who complains about hammer rev cannot be taken seriously. Just sayin

Yeah base Mesmer was absolutly horrible and useless to play in PvE due to constant PvP whines that persisted long after Thieves basically removed Mesmer from PvP, lets not repeat that now that Mesmers are finlly fun to play in PvE again.

So how about this for a solution, Anet bans all the 13 year olds who think cancer and aids are somehow an apt way of describing anything related to balance in a video game and who thinks esports are a sport and then removes PvP alltogether.

Removing PvP might seem harsh but its basically what PvPers want done to Mesmers.

Levetty.1279:

Yeah base Mesmer was absolutly horrible and useless to play in PvE due to constant PvP whines that persisted long after Thieves basically removed Mesmer from PvP, lets not repeat that now that Mesmers are finlly fun to play in PvE again.

So how about this for a solution, Anet bans all the 13 year olds who think cancer and aids are somehow an apt way of describing anything related to balance in a video game and who thinks esports are a sport and then removes PvP alltogether.

Removing PvP might seem harsh but its basically what PvPers want done to Mesmers.

^Most immature post of the day

No energy which lead to skill spam is one of the reason why we are there now.

Dustin.2793:

There is potential for this to be one of the funnest metas. Unfortunately, revenants and bunker memsers are not in a imbalanced, but broken state in my opinion. Which leave close to every team being force to convert to using these compositions. It is very boring to watch and play in. My team scrimmed the double rev, double mesmer, tempest team for hours the other night and by the end of the scrims I had such a headache and everything just blended in. If a balance patch cannot happen until the end of the season a one class limit per team should be considered. If something doesn’t change this could be a big disappointment not only for the players, but to the already hard to spectate side of things as well.

What build did you run for the last match against final form?

Burtnik.5218:

Someone who complains about hammer rev cannot be taken seriously. Just sayin

So basically the whole WvW community cannot be taken seriously? Because Revenants are just running the game mode with 14-18k hits on multiple targets.

What about implementing amulet bans into ranked and tournaments. Build templates would be needed tho.

Similarly to how you vote for maps, each of the 10 players votes an amulet to ban. The 2 most voted amulets become banned, if there’s a draw you can have a randomized effect (just like you have in map selection).

@Anet, give us the tools to counter the broken builds you can’t balance.

Xillllix.3485:

Burtnik.5218:

Someone who complains about hammer rev cannot be taken seriously. Just sayin

So basically the whole WvW community cannot be taken seriously? Because Revenants are just running the game mode with 14-18k hits on multiple targets.

Are we in wvw section or spvp? I beleive you confused something here. And yes i do not take wvw players serious as most of them are terrible. Sry

All I can say is that I hope this gets some much needed buffs for classes like warrior/beserker or base ranger and condi necro.

Nerfs seem to come very quickly, but what we desperately need is buffs and not the sort that is given and then immediately removed by some “balancing nerf” elsewhere.

I`d like to see those lower classes elevated so that they become a meaningful choice, rather than simply see every class crushed down to their level of badness.

What?! The issue here is power creep. We need a lot of nerfs, not buffs…

messiah.1908:

Wolfs Shadow.7234:

messiah.1908:

But what gerenties other bad meta will arise
I see ppl hate condi as it’s not fun like pure direct dmg
But also 3 ppl zerging doing fast dmg can be boring eventually

The game needs more tactical decision making and not pure build excellence

I vote for 1 class for each team.
Also maybe each player must fill in 1 role so no for 2 bunker or 2 condi or full sustain party like
Roamer
Dmg dealer
Bunker
Condi dealer
Sustain
Support
Etc
Or some other variant
Than the game can be more interesting

The first part I agree 100% with, the 2nd part not so much. What you just described in the 2nd part is GW1, and those were 8 person teams; which was great. But GW2 was build around the concept that all classes can do all things to some extent. For that to work Conquest would be all kinds of screwed up.

even if there will be class restrictive it wont prevent 2 bunkers or 2 sustain
dd ele and engi
bunker guard or druid or mesmer
so just different class wont push the meta to shift because as you said gw2 want every class to be able to play every build and role. thus i think we need to think about roles and not class

like in basketball

you have 5 roles :
point guard
shooting guard
small forward
power forward
center

you dont see 5 point guard….

so try to implement it in gw2 5v5 pvp
each team has to create 5 roles and play with them

how to do it its a different story

maybe for each role the is 3 amulet and 10 rune to choose from and once been chosen no one can choose the same

I would just like to say this statement is incorrect from a basketball point of view. The position of the players dont matter all.

You see a team like golden state with there 4rth quarter lineup and its 1 guard 2 sg and 3 sf. Which is different from a Spurs team or mavericks who do run a traditional lineup. Neither one better then the other but simply who is playing better that game determines the outcome.

If this game was perfect it would be just like basketball. The problem with this game is 1 class and style is far superior over the others. In basketball its far less about the positions but the ability to support the star and the chemistry of the players who work together.

Obviously in a game you cant have Hakeem or dirk who carry average players to a championship but what we can at least expect from a esports game is for each class/play style to be effective at something.

So far in this game for balance they havent been able to figure out give and take at all. Its truly unfortunate that this game is at its current state since it was so close to balance previous to HOT. A small hit to D/D eles and the introduction of some new runes and ammys would of made this game perfect from a PvP aspect. The introduction of HOT has thrown this game into a black hole with no end in sight.

Saiyan.1704:

No clue why they haven’t followed other pro league games and just lock class stacking… the very least, same classes with similiar specs.

Would have fixed double Ele comps back when Abjured abused it.
Will better this meta; Devs wouldn’t have to struggle so much with the balances.
Lastly, it would diversify things a little. 5 completely seperate classes/builds/amulets per team = a more balanced game.

Imo, Ez Pz were utilizing the worse comp imaginable, having builds with minimum condi cleanses against a condi comp team. Like to see a Necro, a good DH and an Ele against those 3 Revs.

I already tried, most of the responses are just vile anyways.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Class-Stacking-Returns-To-Pro-League/first#post5832748

Countless

Trigr.6481:

Saiyan.1704:

No clue why they haven’t followed other pro league games and just lock class stacking… the very least, same classes with similiar specs.

Would have fixed double Ele comps back when Abjured abused it.
Will better this meta; Devs wouldn’t have to struggle so much with the balances.
Lastly, it would diversify things a little. 5 completely seperate classes/builds/amulets per team = a more balanced game.

Imo, Ez Pz were utilizing the worse comp imaginable, having builds with minimum condi cleanses against a condi comp team. Like to see a Necro, a good DH and an Ele against those 3 Revs.

I already tried, most of the responses are just vile anyways.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Class-Stacking-Returns-To-Pro-League/first#post5832748

Countless

Lol this doesnt fix the in game situation which should be more important then the ESL tournaments.

Asking Anet to fix classes is what there suppose to do unless they want people to quit the game. Acting like a problem isnt a problem helps nothing. The game doesnt have to be perfect but has to be playable for all classes.

“A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.” Bruce Lee

Anet has resolved to only put out 4 balance patches a year, no matter how rediculously broken pvp in the game is. They pump 400k in prizes into a tournament and then let it stagnate because they are too busy or too lazy to put out balances patches more frequently. Right now the balance is so boring for the first time in the game I turned off the ESL and went to go watch something else. I mean bunkers were always boring to watch, but chrono giving a team like permanent invuln and tempest being immune to condis which are the only damage anyone can do while healing everyone on their team up is kittening boring to watch….

Its like watching paint dry, but I made several posts about this, I made a wall of text that got a couple hundred replies begging ANET to look into this before seasons, they don’t listen to their playerbase, and they don’t have a kittening clue what pvp balance looks like, nor do they seem to be trying. I guess this is mostly my fault for getting my hopes up when they raised the prize pool for the tourneys that it might turn into something, that they would give it a reason to grow, and support it in doing so, instead they threw 1 big patch, that kitten on everything, and went on to make sure we realized they would not be touching the game until 3 months from now, no matter how bad it is.

Garbage ANet… you have done a lot of lazy stupid stuff in this game before, and we usually overlook it because of the fun parts of the game.. but this pvp season…. team queueing instead of solo queue, and refusal to balance patch…. this kitten takes the cake…

SamTheGuardian.2938:

Odin All Father.1702:

With the proliferation of skills that grant super speed i had really hoped to see a faster meta develop. For years it feels like they’ve been working to speed up gameplay, reduce time spent doing nothing, and increase time fighting the other team… it’s felt as though they wanted the game to be interesting throughout the game… they wanted to hear battle cries of “it’s not over yet!” even when teams were down a couple hundred points… seeing the bunker meta develop is unfortunate… I think there was too little place for bunkers in the previous meta, but the complete 180 is just a pendulum of bad.

The bottom line is this. You have people in charge at ArenaNet over balance who are very, very bad at their jobs. There is no question about this. it comes down to the community essentially outsmarting the developers and putting together these team builds that are very effective at winning, but void of fun. To be very blunt, it’s garbage.

ArenaNet should be ashamed of their failure. They should realize the damage this is doing on Twitch as players who are potential customers tune in and see mess that it is and also for seasoned players who know how far GW2 PvP meta had come before HoT. They could have made a decision to keep HoT Elite Specs out of ranked play this season and let them cool off a bit and balance them over a year. In arrogance, they didn’t do that. So this is what we have today. sPvP meta reduced to five builds with heavy focus on bunker/power or bunker/condi duos.

It is garbage and it’s the failure of a small group of people inside ArenaNet. Those individuals took the the most phenomenal conquest experience to be had in a game and they effectively destroyed it. Yet there is no public acknowledgment of this failure. There is no course of action being taken to stop the hemorrhaging.

So let them keep going. Lets let this kitten design continue to reveal itself as ESL Pro play continues. Let’s let GW2 become the laughing stock of PvP. Is this what certain epople want?

Playing PvP these days is a bit like being tied down and forced to watch as your best friend is being violated by their parent.

Maybe the balancing team is very good at their jobs, but the person they answer to is the problem.

i disagree to nerf as i dont believe it will solve the problem
if they nerf in some way the bunker mesmer to the point he wont be viable any more no team will take it and look for other bunker build like guard or ele or ranger who can res quick with mercy runes and support with cleanse and boons
if they nerf the rev the same result and we may see more necros

so than what nerf all condi builds (remember mtd nerf – no condi mesmer even in hotjoin any more from just 1 torment stack removed)

anet needs to think how to create and push team to play tactically

i agree for little adjustment here and there but careful from full nerf

also restrict 1 class wont solve the problem as we may see 1 bunker mesmer and 1 bunker guard or ele , 1 viper rev, 1 cele/carrion necro 1 marauder engi

maybe this idea

if one team does equally fight nothing gain in points
if it does unbalance fight 1v2 for example and manage to down the 1 than they get 2 points instead of 5
if they do 1v3 and manage to down the 1 they will get 1 point
put it on time like after 10 seconds . so now team will need to count and move away if they want to get more points. and build for more power to be able to down enemies under 10 sec

just and idea concept

messiah.1908:

i disagree to nerf as i dont believe it will solve the problem
if they nerf in some way the bunker mesmer to the point he wont be viable any more no team will take it and look for other bunker build like guard or ele or ranger who can res quick with mercy runes and support with cleanse and boons
if they nerf the rev the same result and we may see more necros

Exactly but people only see that they are struggling with the bunker mesmer and they don’t know that they will be here two weeks after the well nerf, complaining about the next OP bunker that replaced the chronomancer.

butch.8136:

Band-aid fix until balance patch: no class stacking.

HOLD UP THIS IS TOTALLY THE BEST IDEA. In every other competitive eSports game, well at least ones in which you control a certain character (I’m thinking DOTA2/DOTA and LoL), you can only have one of each champion per team. I think this would make the game much more interesting.

messiah.1908:

i disagree to nerf as i dont believe it will solve the problem
if they nerf in some way the bunker mesmer to the point he wont be viable any more no team will take it and look for other bunker build like guard or ele or ranger who can res quick with mercy runes and support with cleanse and boons
if they nerf the rev the same result and we may see more necros

so than what nerf all condi builds (remember mtd nerf – no condi mesmer even in hotjoin any more from just 1 torment stack removed)

anet needs to think how to create and push team to play tactically

i agree for little adjustment here and there but careful from full nerf

also restrict 1 class wont solve the problem as we may see 1 bunker mesmer and 1 bunker guard or ele , 1 viper rev, 1 cele/carrion necro 1 marauder engi

maybe this idea

if one team does equally fight nothing gain in points
if it does unbalance fight 1v2 for example and manage to down the 1 than they get 2 points instead of 5
if they do 1v3 and manage to down the 1 they will get 1 point
put it on time like after 10 seconds . so now team will need to count and move away if they want to get more points. and build for more power to be able to down enemies under 10 sec

just and idea concept

If they take mercy runes they won’t have durability runes. Oh no, necro being viable again? How awful. Let’s just not nerf bunker Mesmer because build and class diversity in gw2 is clearly something that none of us want. I’m pretty sure you’re the only one who isn’t appalled by how cheesey bunker mes is because you play it yourself, not against the seemingly endless amount of them match after match.

It’s the circle of nerf. It tried to keep the flavors of the month in balance, but ultimately fails because we don’t glance enough.

The fact is:

Next balance patch will be at the end of the season. This won’t change.

BUT

Esl admins can take the decision to avoid class stacking for pro league.

I think it would be better for the game and specators.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Maybe the balancing team is very good at their jobs, but the person they answer to is the problem.

I know that was the biggest issue with balance in GW1 and I don’t see why it wouldn’t still be true for GW2.

first of all they wont ban profession stacking. i’m guessing both anet and esl would use the excuse that we’re already too far into the current season make such a “drastic” change or they’ll just do what they do best and ignore the community entirely and not even give us the dignity of a response

secondly, i put drastic in quotation marks because the reality is banning profession stacking wont solve anything; you’d still see the exact same 5 professions dominate that you already do: rev, mesmer, ranger, engineer, and ele. the supposed “decrease” in tankiness and boring-ness would be next to nonexistent.

First 2 pages of the pvp subforum are currently devoid of any dev response, even though they’re filled with legitimate complaints. Anet is so involved with their playerbase.

nearlight.3064:

messiah.1908:

i disagree to nerf as i dont believe it will solve the problem
if they nerf in some way the bunker mesmer to the point he wont be viable any more no team will take it and look for other bunker build like guard or ele or ranger who can res quick with mercy runes and support with cleanse and boons
if they nerf the rev the same result and we may see more necros

so than what nerf all condi builds (remember mtd nerf – no condi mesmer even in hotjoin any more from just 1 torment stack removed)

anet needs to think how to create and push team to play tactically

i agree for little adjustment here and there but careful from full nerf

also restrict 1 class wont solve the problem as we may see 1 bunker mesmer and 1 bunker guard or ele , 1 viper rev, 1 cele/carrion necro 1 marauder engi

maybe this idea

if one team does equally fight nothing gain in points
if it does unbalance fight 1v2 for example and manage to down the 1 than they get 2 points instead of 5
if they do 1v3 and manage to down the 1 they will get 1 point
put it on time like after 10 seconds . so now team will need to count and move away if they want to get more points. and build for more power to be able to down enemies under 10 sec

just and idea concept

If they take mercy runes they won’t have durability runes. Oh no, necro being viable again? How awful. Let’s just not nerf bunker Mesmer because build and class diversity in gw2 is clearly something that none of us want. I’m pretty sure you’re the only one who isn’t appalled by how cheesey bunker mes is because you play it yourself, not against the seemingly endless amount of them match after match.

It’s the circle of nerf. It tried to keep the flavors of the month in balance, but ultimately fails because we don’t glance enough.

you dont know me so let me tell you what i like

i like diversity . i hate mesmer could only play power shatter for 3 years
i like conditions build also
bunker build i hate (had maybe 15 games as bunker)
i like to theorycraft and i play with bunker mesmer before hot went alive.
i like to see bunker mesmer still viable option and not the meta shift to bunker guard
i want team to choose what to play and not be forced to play certain class and build

to see all them useing 2 rev, 2 mes is boring

every class needs some uniqueness but now almost everyone using the same concept
in the pass it was cele meta 2 dd ele which also was boring

nerfing one build wont give you anything till some elite players finds the next op bunker/ support build after 10 days and than what….

This is actually the best meta ever. Its the meta worth 100s of thousands of dollars to deliver the greatest esports garbage of 2015. Great way to end the year.