Guild Wars 2

So here’s my problem with DH. I CAN beat them. Once you figure out the traps its easy. Dodging is great, and the rest is pretty simple, stun then burst, repeat ‘till dead. Many players haven’t figured this out. They just charge in and die. Now my friends aren’t the best PvPers, but my problem is they basically have quit playing because they were tired of DH keeping them from doing anything. Even when they remember not to stand in procession or cross the faith line there’s still the yank, knockback, cage shot, and cage trap to prevent them from being able to do so. Once you’re through all that, you’ve got block skills, then the super-shield to deal with.

DH has a cool skillset, but its way too good at killing newbs. They need to be more intuitive to play against.

My problem with DH:
Their traps cover the entire cap point.

You need to stay in the cap point to prevent them from decapping, but at the same time you can’t stand in it because you’ll die from traps.

snaplemouton.1294:

My problem with DH:
Their traps cover the entire cap point.

You need to stay in the cap point to prevent them from decapping, but at the same time you can’t stand in it because you’ll die from traps.

A non issue in the competitive scene but OP has a point.

How do you limit the newb faceroll DH builds while also keeping or improving the DH viability in the competitive scene?

So L2P issue is L2P issue? I am shocked.

Saiyan.1704:

snaplemouton.1294:

My problem with DH:
Their traps cover the entire cap point.

You need to stay in the cap point to prevent them from decapping, but at the same time you can’t stand in it because you’ll die from traps.

A non issue in the competitive scene but OP has a point.

How do you limit the newb faceroll DH builds while also keeping or improving the DH viability in the competitive scene?

Stronger, smaller traps (that are more visible, like everyone else’s) on a longer cooldown.

DH’s can drop traps waaaaay too frequently for how powerful/large they are, but if they were small enough they didn’t cover an entire point (plus extra area) on a longer cooldown but almost-certain death if you DID trigger it it would add additional dynamic to the class beyond “sit in center of point and crap out traps as fast as you can hit the button”. Higher potential ceiling but a steeper skill curve, and maybe not as deadly against bad players in unranked (who would have at least a slight chance of not tripping all of them instantly).

And an easy counter to DH’s even in the mid-ranks of league is ranged. Their pull is on a long enough cooldown even a base Rev with a hammer can down them (provided equal skill) without getting in the traps, and they’re one of the weakest at ranged combat.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

So L2P issue is L2P issue? I am shocked.

True, but even DH is succesfully played by people that should L2P. The problem lies there.

tell them to get off the zerker/assassin amulet build that specs for maximum dps straight out of PVE land. that’ll basically solve all their problems.

Kolly.9872:

Regon Phoenix.8215:

So L2P issue is L2P issue? I am shocked.

True, but even DH is succesfully played by people that should L2P. The problem lies there.

That is what GW2 is about, it is for everyone, even those that only need a build to win and dont care much, that is why gimmicks are the way to play this game, just need to see where Anet puts the “less” effort on, every class has 1 or 2 builds that help carying the player.

DH is like the master yi of gw2. lower ranks don’t know how to deal with em but doesn’t really work in higher ones.

tell your buddies to play dh themselves to give them an idea of what too look out for and what to do against them.

Lucred.1802:

Saiyan.1704:

snaplemouton.1294:

My problem with DH:
Their traps cover the entire cap point.

You need to stay in the cap point to prevent them from decapping, but at the same time you can’t stand in it because you’ll die from traps.

A non issue in the competitive scene but OP has a point.

How do you limit the newb faceroll DH builds while also keeping or improving the DH viability in the competitive scene?

Stronger, smaller traps (that are more visible, like everyone else’s) on a longer cooldown.

DH’s can drop traps waaaaay too frequently for how powerful/large they are, but if they were small enough they didn’t cover an entire point (plus extra area) on a longer cooldown but almost-certain death if you DID trigger it it would add additional dynamic to the class beyond “sit in center of point and crap out traps as fast as you can hit the button”. Higher potential ceiling but a steeper skill curve, and maybe not as deadly against bad players in unranked (who would have at least a slight chance of not tripping all of them instantly).

And an easy counter to DH’s even in the mid-ranks of league is ranged. Their pull is on a long enough cooldown even a base Rev with a hammer can down them (provided equal skill) without getting in the traps, and they’re one of the weakest at ranged combat.

But you didn’t answer the second part of the question, how do you nerf DH in lower tiers and still make viable in the higher league tiers?

You’re straight up asking for a DH nerf but that’s eons away from what the class really needs.

[/quote]

But you didn’t answer the second part of the question, how do you nerf DH in lower tiers and still make viable in the higher league tiers?

You’re straight up asking for a DH nerf but that’s eons away from what the class really needs.[/quote]

I don’t see how I’m asking for a straight-up nerf. Make the traps do more damage/snare for longer, but make the area they cover less and lengthen their cooldowns. It might increase how hard it is to play DH, but will also make a well-played DH more dangerous at the higher competitive levels while making a poorly-played DH less dangerous at the lower competitive levels. Because as it stands, a poorly-played DH is lethal against decently-played melee and can usually fight to a draw with decently-played ranged yet a well-played DH gets their hind end handed to them by a well-played [almost anything]. They’re currently masters of mediocrity, they’ve got a high floor and a low ceiling, unlike most other professions that have a low floor and a high ceiling.

Make the traps deadly but at least somewhat avoidable, instead of moderately dangerous but completely unavoidable (due to size and invisibility).

Gatvin.6510:

So here’s my problem with DH. I CAN beat them. Once you figure out the traps its easy. Dodging is great, and the rest is pretty simple, stun then burst, repeat ‘till dead. Many players haven’t figured this out. They just charge in and die. Now my friends aren’t the best PvPers, but my problem is they basically have quit playing because they were tired of DH keeping them from doing anything. Even when they remember not to stand in procession or cross the faith line there’s still the yank, knockback, cage shot, and cage trap to prevent them from being able to do so. Once you’re through all that, you’ve got block skills, then the super-shield to deal with.

DH has a cool skillset, but its way too good at killing newbs. They need to be more intuitive to play against.

Why wouldnt you just go into the guild hall or a 1 vs 1 server and just practice?

We got a new player into the guild and he loved playing P/P thief and i took my warrior into a room and showed him what he hast to look for. Then i brought in my ele and showed him why it wont work in a match with a shout ele.

I have a guild team mate who was crushing sapphires with his DH build and got into ruby with it. We qued together for 18 min (thanks anet) in ranked since he still wanted to get to diamond and he couldnt play anywhere with his DH against high diamond and legendary players.

I really want to know what anet plans to do with a class that brings nothing to high level game play. You want it baby proof for your friends who just want to walk into PvP and do well. They will literally lose to any decent build and quit with the approach they came in with.

Your next post will be hammer warriors with headbutt and bulls charge is op because my friends dont bring stun breakers or stability to there builds. Im sorry your friends got frustrated and quit playing PvP but i dont want Anet to balance around players who dont know how to play the game.

kdaddy.5431:

Your next post will be hammer warriors with headbutt and bulls charge is op because my friends dont bring stun breakers or stability to there builds. Im sorry your friends got frustrated and quit playing PvP but i dont want Anet to balance around players who dont know how to play the game.

Countering DH traps takes a little bit more than just bringing stability or dodging reactively. The problem is that if somoene walks onto a point where all the traps are stacked at once, then the sudden damage they take is so ridiculously high that they are very unlikely to survive it. A fix could include a slight nerf to the worst offenders: Test of Faith and Dragon’s Maw.

Just an example of some minor nerfs that I think would make playing against DH more noob-friendly: ToF needs a 1/2s cast time, and Dragon’s Maw should deal less damage up-front and more damage over-time for staying caught in the jaws (compensation would probably include a decreased cd on this trap, or adding a fire-field to it).

It would be a bad idea for ANet to balance around new players, but we should have some pity on them. Sufficient barriers to entry are never a good thing.

Do you know how many times test of faith has been nerfed? o.o

Dude, the fact you’re seeing people use dragon’s maw speaks volumes. You’re not playing at a level where people just trash DHs

snaplemouton.1294:

My problem with DH:
Their traps cover the entire cap point.

You need to stay in the cap point to prevent them from decapping, but at the same time you can’t stand in it because you’ll die from traps.

This. The bane of a glass-Thief. I can dodge the traps initially, but I can’t skirt the traps and remain on point… nor can I shadowstep through a barrier without severe repercussions.

Where’s my rogue-like abilities to disable traps? I need some thieves tools and a natural 20, please!

Arcaedus.7290:

kdaddy.5431:

Your next post will be hammer warriors with headbutt and bulls charge is op because my friends dont bring stun breakers or stability to there builds. Im sorry your friends got frustrated and quit playing PvP but i dont want Anet to balance around players who dont know how to play the game.

Countering DH traps takes a little bit more than just bringing stability or dodging reactively. The problem is that if somoene walks onto a point where all the traps are stacked at once, then the sudden damage they take is so ridiculously high that they are very unlikely to survive it. A fix could include a slight nerf to the worst offenders: Test of Faith and Dragon’s Maw.

Just an example of some minor nerfs that I think would make playing against DH more noob-friendly: ToF needs a 1/2s cast time, and Dragon’s Maw should deal less damage up-front and more damage over-time for staying caught in the jaws (compensation would probably include a decreased cd on this trap, or adding a fire-field to it).

It would be a bad idea for ANet to balance around new players, but we should have some pity on them. Sufficient barriers to entry are never a good thing.

Everything you said is correct for “noob friendly” players but what about those like Tage who mastered the class and he had to use guardian/DH with rune of speed in the Pro League? The man wasnt even using the damage traps because he played the 2nd bunker for the team. So at high level play the traps you speak of are not even being used.

Once again i say you cant nerf certain traits/ skills for players walking into the game. Yes we want them to continue playing as a community but not if they want it easy and no not if they want to run any skills they want to be effective. They need to change and run with the meta just like the rest of us.

Like heres my problem with what you are suggesting, the dps DH is not viable at ESL levels, i consider myself slightly above average and Dh did not do well when they were on my team or on the enemy team during the season. My friend was able to use it to get into ruby but when qued with me he got destroyed, not close fights that could of gone either way. Slaughtered to the point of frustration and just logging off.

Which come back full circle, what gets buffed since traps will be nerfed? A class that is barley viable at the average level and destroys people just walking into the game. Base guardian wasnt the best at anything before HOT. I dont want a class to get destroyed like warrior was season 1-2 without saying what can be buffed for the nerfs.