Guild Wars 2

A lot of mesmer mains are going to hate me for this, but I think it would be a good idea to make continuum split not able to be used with an elite skill, or if that’s unreasonable, put any sort of cast time on the split, even if it is a .1ms cast time just so they can’t use it with skills —> moa then split; instead of moa, split at end of cast. Also if theres a cast time, people can cleave out the continuum split summon and force the split to end early….maybe?

Every mesmer atm just picks up the profession and presses moa and continuum splits it. It’s sad that such a cool mechanic like split is optimally used on such a simple combo. I was more for watching the all the shatter mesmers when HoT first came out and they’d do complex shatter combos with their split instead of moa —-—-> split.

Its too powerful, too easy and boring

Some mesmers may hate you for it, but not me.

• You cannot balance a skill that reduces all cooldown to about 75s max. Moa was balanced around a specific cooldown and CS throws off this balance.
• As you say, CS has the potential to be a very interesting skill, with meaningful choices, but has just become a double elite skill. Boring!
• CS is one of the main thing which keeps chrono > core mesmer. I want all elite specs to be competitive but not largely superior to core specs.

So yes, as many have suggested, I think elites should not be reset by CS.

Mesmer main here, I completely agree.
Also please give power some love to bring it into a semi-competitive place.

+1 8^)

Erm I think you’ll find many here are in favour of preventing Elites with CS anyway.

They should keep it the way it is. CS isn’t even as OP as people are making it out to be, plenty times I have been interrupted during casting the signet of humiliation. , missed the chance to case during the time or the first time you cast they dodge it, gives you another chance to cast. I hope they don’t change it.

I covered my suggested changes in my thread if you would like to check it out.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Countless-How-To-Improve-Build-Diversity/first#post6122923

I totally agree with this. Continuum Split should never affect the elite. The mechanic it’s too powerful with skills and utilities. It’s make another chance to a mesmer kill you if he missed the damage output in the first moa.
Split duplicates the amount of CC that the mesmer have too with chrono’s elite and shield that makes it a pain in the kitten too.

Replace f4 with continuum. Core classes were supposed to lose something for elite spec. Change continuum to revert mesmer back in time (3/4 sec casttime) based on
the amount of illusions in the world restoring their hp, endurance, position from their last 1-4seconds, in addition reset cd’s on wep and utility skills – this does not include healing, shatters, elite skills.

Btw. alacrity shouldnt affect shatter skills.

As someone who plays mesmer from time to time aswell i agree with this change.

4500 ranked qs on mesmer here. I agree, this needs to be done if nothing else to balance chrono in relation to normal mesmer.

At the same time, buff power shatter please (preferably not chrono power shatter). Kthnxbai.

I’d nerf it a bit differently: All skills that are cast while CS is active could have their cooldown reduced by some number between 60 and 90 seconds. In exchange they can make the duration of CS a bit longer. Keep in mind, that players can force you out of CS. So skills with a shorter cooldown are still recharged instantly, it can still be used on elites, but there is a limit.

1. Replace ‘Distort’ with ‘Continuum Split’ when you take Chronomancer specialisation
2. Continuum Split no longer affects Elite skills
3. Continuum Split gets a cast time which can be interrupted
4. ???
5. Balanced

Sirendor.1394:

1. Replace ‘Distort’ with ‘Continuum Split’ when you take Chronomancer specialisation
2. Continuum Split no longer affects Elite skills
3. Continuum Split gets a cast time which can be interrupted
4. ???
5. Balanced

I agree with this, but then again, Mesmer isn’t the only offender… Warrior, Druid, Tempest, and Revenant need similar treatment. I thought about writing a thread to actually differentiate core from elite specs a little more but it’s a tough thing to do when you know there will be heavy resistance, lol.

This is gonna break the mesmer to the point it will be useless again.
& i agree, mesmer is not the only offender here. All classes has unbalance OP poo poo issues as well. Care for a list?

ronpierce.2760:

Sirendor.1394:

1. Replace ‘Distort’ with ‘Continuum Split’ when you take Chronomancer specialisation
2. Continuum Split no longer affects Elite skills
3. Continuum Split gets a cast time which can be interrupted
4. ???
5. Balanced

I agree with this, but then again, Mesmer isn’t the only offender… Warrior, Druid, Tempest, and Revenant need similar treatment. I thought about writing a thread to actually differentiate core from elite specs a little more but it’s a tough thing to do when you know there will be heavy resistance, lol.

Im up for removing f2 from rev (but that may cause some issue as right now you only bring rev tor aid for f2), burst skills from berserker etc.

Burtnik.5218:

ronpierce.2760:

Sirendor.1394:

1. Replace ‘Distort’ with ‘Continuum Split’ when you take Chronomancer specialisation
2. Continuum Split no longer affects Elite skills
3. Continuum Split gets a cast time which can be interrupted
4. ???
5. Balanced

I agree with this, but then again, Mesmer isn’t the only offender… Warrior, Druid, Tempest, and Revenant need similar treatment. I thought about writing a thread to actually differentiate core from elite specs a little more but it’s a tough thing to do when you know there will be heavy resistance, lol.

Im up for removing f2 from rev (but that may cause some issue as right now you only bring rev tor aid for f2), burst skills from berserker etc.

Well it could go two ways, and would probably have to in some ways. For instance, removing F2 on revenant leaves with without any technical changes (Glint is just essentially utilities). Base revenant would likely need a more Generalized F2 that could be substituted in the future or altered somehow. I’d have to do some digging to say for sure.

Berserkers, ideally, wouldn’t have the base burst skills and either only berserk/Primals (which is a majority what is used anyways, the impact would probably be minimal but at least set the classes apart). Or have Primals usable any time but weaker without Berserk. The Burst skills themselves should be Warrior only. Tempest should theoretically have a slightly longer attubenent cooldown regardless of being used or not, and longer when the primal is used. (Like 8 base, 12 tempest/20 Overcharged). That would be a subtle enough difference to make it feel like a trade off, and slightly reduced power creep. And yes, Mesmer’s CSplit should actually replace Distortion.

My idea with thief was slightly different, since the difference is more subtle, the idea was to baseline Improvisation’s “two stolen usages” for the thief, since you know, it’s a thief. Then change how the Improvisation trait works (which it needs anyways for other practical reasons.

Guardian and Necro are already correctly done, even if tuning differences are off.

The major thing is, there would need to be some sort of icon on the build screen that indicates that you are a “pure” class and the benefits that come with that (i.e., Death Shroud, Distortion, Burst skills, and so on).

Most of these changes wouldn’t be overly hard to do and would also help work away from power creep. People might hate it for a second, but then there would be a real reason to play base classes again.

Everyone here realizes that you activate the Moa first then CS? You can’t prevent the use of elite skills if elites are used first and then CS is used before the elite is resolved.

Ananeos.4587:

Everyone here realizes that you activate the Moa first then CS? You can’t prevent the use of elite skills if elites are used first and then CS is used before the elite is resolved.

Ehm.

I have suggested giving CS a dynamic cool down that is affected by the skill casted during the split

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Dynamic-cool-down-for-continuum-shift/first#post6112329

I think it would be a fair change depending on how you use the skill.

Ananeos.4587:

Everyone here realizes that you activate the Moa first then CS? You can’t prevent the use of elite skills if elites are used first and then CS is used before the elite is resolved.

I think the idea is rather that the elite skill CAN be used but won’t see it’s cooldown reset.

ronpierce.2760:

Burtnik.5218:

ronpierce.2760:

Sirendor.1394:

1. Replace ‘Distort’ with ‘Continuum Split’ when you take Chronomancer specialisation
2. Continuum Split no longer affects Elite skills
3. Continuum Split gets a cast time which can be interrupted
4. ???
5. Balanced

I agree with this, but then again, Mesmer isn’t the only offender… Warrior, Druid, Tempest, and Revenant need similar treatment. I thought about writing a thread to actually differentiate core from elite specs a little more but it’s a tough thing to do when you know there will be heavy resistance, lol.

Im up for removing f2 from rev (but that may cause some issue as right now you only bring rev tor aid for f2), burst skills from berserker etc.

Well it could go two ways, and would probably have to in some ways. For instance, removing F2 on revenant leaves with without any technical changes (Glint is just essentially utilities). Base revenant would likely need a more Generalized F2 that could be substituted in the future or altered somehow. I’d have to do some digging to say for sure.

Berserkers, ideally, wouldn’t have the base burst skills and either only berserk/Primals (which is a majority what is used anyways, the impact would probably be minimal but at least set the classes apart). Or have Primals usable any time but weaker without Berserk. The Burst skills themselves should be Warrior only. Tempest should theoretically have a slightly longer attubenent cooldown regardless of being used or not, and longer when the primal is used. (Like 8 base, 12 tempest/20 Overcharged). That would be a subtle enough difference to make it feel like a trade off, and slightly reduced power creep. And yes, Mesmer’s CSplit should actually replace Distortion.

My idea with thief was slightly different, since the difference is more subtle, the idea was to baseline Improvisation’s “two stolen usages” for the thief, since you know, it’s a thief. Then change how the Improvisation trait works (which it needs anyways for other practical reasons.

Guardian and Necro are already correctly done, even if tuning differences are off.

The major thing is, there would need to be some sort of icon on the build screen that indicates that you are a “pure” class and the benefits that come with that (i.e., Death Shroud, Distortion, Burst skills, and so on).

Most of these changes wouldn’t be overly hard to do and would also help work away from power creep. People might hate it for a second, but then there would be a real reason to play base classes again.

Please make this thread. I think you’d be surprised at the amount of support you’d receive. This needs Dev attention stat.

@Sunfish

Your balance idea has a huge gaping hole in the fact that split isn’t the issue, rather casting specifically one elite twice. Moa, is mesmers unique “Anti-Transformation”. Much like chill is the opposite of alacrity (in regards to player icd’s).

Furthermore, nurfing split to the extent you call for would not only nerf Moa application but every other skill mesmers may find a reason to cast in conjunction with split. Example, Double popping well heal.

Don’t tear down an entire building to replace a door…

I’m all for mesmer being given a chance or completely new elite skill in replace to Moa, but:
- If you have transformations that greatly improve player abilities (necro, engi, warrior) it stands to reason that an anti-transformation of some kind should exist.
- If you remove the current functionality of Moa, something must be buffed in it’s place. Moa, is a defining point of the Mesmer class. Something loss, requires something gained. Nerfing Moa for the “state” of the game.

BetterHappy.2517:

@Sunfish

Your balance idea has a huge gaping hole in the fact that split isn’t the issue, rather casting specifically one elite twice. Moa, is mesmers unique “Anti-Transformation”. Much like chill is the opposite of alacrity (in regards to player icd’s).

Furthermore, nurfing split to the extent you call for would not only nerf Moa application but every other skill mesmers may find a reason to cast in conjunction with split. Example, Double popping well heal.

Don’t tear down an entire building to replace a door…

I’m all for mesmer being given a chance or completely new elite skill in replace to Moa, but:
- If you have transformations that greatly improve player abilities (necro, engi, warrior) it stands to reason that an anti-transformation of some kind should exist.
- If you remove the current functionality of Moa, something must be buffed in it’s place. Moa, is a defining point of the Mesmer class. Something loss, requires something gained. Nerfing Moa for the “state” of the game.

CS in its current state prevents skills to be balanced by their CD, which is specially bad for large cooldown skills like elite skills. Double Moa is the “OP of the moment” but then it will be double gravity well (6s hard to escape AOE CC + damage) etc… So preventing elite CD reset is a reasonable nerf. It also ensures that the skill becomes more fun since now you can actually choose what to use it for (unlike now where you are basically always using it for elites).

Salamander.2504:

ronpierce.2760:

Burtnik.5218:

ronpierce.2760:

Sirendor.1394:

1. Replace ‘Distort’ with ‘Continuum Split’ when you take Chronomancer specialisation
2. Continuum Split no longer affects Elite skills
3. Continuum Split gets a cast time which can be interrupted
4. ???
5. Balanced

I agree with this, but then again, Mesmer isn’t the only offender… Warrior, Druid, Tempest, and Revenant need similar treatment. I thought about writing a thread to actually differentiate core from elite specs a little more but it’s a tough thing to do when you know there will be heavy resistance, lol.

Im up for removing f2 from rev (but that may cause some issue as right now you only bring rev tor aid for f2), burst skills from berserker etc.

Well it could go two ways, and would probably have to in some ways. For instance, removing F2 on revenant leaves with without any technical changes (Glint is just essentially utilities). Base revenant would likely need a more Generalized F2 that could be substituted in the future or altered somehow. I’d have to do some digging to say for sure.

Berserkers, ideally, wouldn’t have the base burst skills and either only berserk/Primals (which is a majority what is used anyways, the impact would probably be minimal but at least set the classes apart). Or have Primals usable any time but weaker without Berserk. The Burst skills themselves should be Warrior only. Tempest should theoretically have a slightly longer attubenent cooldown regardless of being used or not, and longer when the primal is used. (Like 8 base, 12 tempest/20 Overcharged). That would be a subtle enough difference to make it feel like a trade off, and slightly reduced power creep. And yes, Mesmer’s CSplit should actually replace Distortion.

My idea with thief was slightly different, since the difference is more subtle, the idea was to baseline Improvisation’s “two stolen usages” for the thief, since you know, it’s a thief. Then change how the Improvisation trait works (which it needs anyways for other practical reasons.

Guardian and Necro are already correctly done, even if tuning differences are off.

The major thing is, there would need to be some sort of icon on the build screen that indicates that you are a “pure” class and the benefits that come with that (i.e., Death Shroud, Distortion, Burst skills, and so on).

Most of these changes wouldn’t be overly hard to do and would also help work away from power creep. People might hate it for a second, but then there would be a real reason to play base classes again.

Please make this thread. I think you’d be surprised at the amount of support you’d receive. This needs Dev attention stat.

Alright, I did it. Lets see how this goes. Hopefully it won’t be bogged by people scared of being nerfed and take it for what it is intended to be. Fingers crossed!

As a mesmer player, I think it’s fine if CS doesn’t affect elite cooldown.

It would be nice to get a couple little buffs when this change happens (maybe shorten the cooldowns on a few rarely-used utilities?)

In general, it would be awesome if the balance changes always included a mix of a couple nerfs to overpowered skills and a couple buffs to rarely used skills for every profession. It would lead to more build experimenting.

I don’t mind the elite specs being generally more powerful. Anet needs to make money somehow, and the price of HoT is really not that high.

eldenbri.1059:

I don’t mind the elite specs being generally more powerful. Anet needs to make money somehow, and the price of HoT is really not that high.

The reason many of us want balance between core and elite is not because we don’t want to pay (most of us have already paid anyway) but because this would increase build diversity and also because some of the elite spec mechanics are really not fun (massive sustain usually).

The problem with CS is that most pvp-ers will take the change to not work on elits but almost all pve players will hate that change because they will loose quickness uptime from time warp.

I would rather sugest changes to moa form, maybe let it get stability like all other transforms or maybe let it get resistance for the transform time.
It will help to survive against condi chrono in 1v1 and still be vialable to put oponent down in team fights.

BetterHappy.2517:

@Sunfish

Your balance idea has a huge gaping hole in the fact that split isn’t the issue, rather casting specifically one elite twice. Moa, is mesmers unique “Anti-Transformation”. Much like chill is the opposite of alacrity (in regards to player icd’s).

Furthermore, nurfing split to the extent you call for would not only nerf Moa application but every other skill mesmers may find a reason to cast in conjunction with split. Example, Double popping well heal.

Don’t tear down an entire building to replace a door…

I’m all for mesmer being given a chance or completely new elite skill in replace to Moa, but:
- If you have transformations that greatly improve player abilities (necro, engi, warrior) it stands to reason that an anti-transformation of some kind should exist.
- If you remove the current functionality of Moa, something must be buffed in it’s place. Moa, is a defining point of the Mesmer class. Something loss, requires something gained. Nerfing Moa for the “state” of the game.

anti transformations are fine. Take elixir X for example. That is an anti transformation. A 10 second moa which kills all your defensives is too powerful of a skill to be able to just be reset on CSplit cooldown.

Personally I don’t think that an issue like this should be prevented from being fixed because of pve’ers, and their timewarp in raids but hey; you gotta be fair.

A lot of people are suggesting to just nerf moa, and allow the split to still work on mesmer elites. Im ok with double mass invis, gravity well, but double timewarp is just as annoying and strong as a moa once/if moa gets nerfed. a 10s 1200 range dome that pulses quickness and slow is just as bad, especially with slow being as strong as it is.

Or we can just all go through with the ‘add a cast time on split change.’

If only this wasn’t suggested over 100 times already

… oh wait it was…

Anyhow, let’s all agree that conti split shouldn’t be an instant skill. This way it won’t be used as a midcast and it would warrant that mesmers will try to have some clones up so they would shatter for longer duration … enough to cast moa. This increases the margin for error immensely.

This way only average to top tier mesmers will have the ability to double moa. Bottom tier plebs will cri that this nerf is too gr8 m8.

Adding a cast time on a shatter is a pretty ludicrous thing to ask for. Shatter by design should always be instant. There are plenty of ways to fix moa without gutting the functionality of cs because of one elite.

Ideas N Stuff

- Reduce the duration of moa, “I suggested by half in my thread”
- Make it stun breakable “a little heavy handed but just throwing out ideas”

Gravity well and time warp are lethal sure, however there really isn’t a comparison between the three in terms of a turn around once the attack successfully lands.

Countless

Trigr.6481:

Adding a cast time on a shatter is a pretty ludicrous thing to ask for. Shatter by design should always be instant. There are plenty of ways to fix moa without gutting the functionality of cs because of one elite.

Ideas N Stuff

- Reduce the duration of moa, “I suggested by half in my thread”
- Make it stun breakable “a little heavy handed but just throwing out ideas”

Gravity well and time warp are lethal sure, however there really isn’t a comparison between the three in terms of a turn around once the attack successfully lands.

Countless

Yes, don’t make it have a cast time. As long as we remove the elite reset it could be used for all sorts of fun and (hopefully) skillful ways. Intricate burst combos, kiting down ledges, and all that. I remember the first week after chrono was released, Helseth used CS on stream to trick people into following down ledges and then porting back up and such. Already, many people told him that eventually CS will only ever be used with: elite > Spam all high cd skills > Spam the rest. And sure enough, using CS for kiting or damage combos is now considered a huge misplay.

Trigr.6481:

Adding a cast time on a shatter is a pretty ludicrous thing to ask for. Shatter by design should always be instant.

Why shatter should be instant? Why any skill ingame should be? Go go esport.. sry this game will always be garbage as long instant skills exists.

Okay, let it be instant, but it should break channeling. If it breaks channeling most mesmers will try to have at least 2 clones before moa. This will put some other abilities under cooldown as well In any case you’ll find it harder to moa AND burst right after it

Trigr.6481:

Adding a cast time on a shatter is a pretty ludicrous thing to ask for. Shatter by design should always be instant. There are plenty of ways to fix moa without gutting the functionality of cs because of one elite.

Ideas N Stuff

- Reduce the duration of moa, “I suggested by half in my thread”
- Make it stun breakable “a little heavy handed but just throwing out ideas”

Gravity well and time warp are lethal sure, however there really isn’t a comparison between the three in terms of a turn around once the attack successfully lands.

Countless

The problem is not moa, so don’t nerf moa. The problem is with CS basically giving you a reset of the fight and the ability to use certain skills twice.

As someone else said, CS is inherently unbalanced, because it has the crazy timeshift and it doesn’t have to give anything up compared to core mesmer.

They could put a cap on it. Maybe 5 seconds per illusion shattered? It then reduces the cooldown of all skills to where it was at the start of continuum split but with a maximum.

So if you shattered 5 illusions via continuum split and then you use elite you will only get a 25s reduction.

Burtnik.5218:

Trigr.6481:

Adding a cast time on a shatter is a pretty ludicrous thing to ask for. Shatter by design should always be instant.

Why should shatter be instant? Why any skill in game should be? Go go e-sport.. sorry this game will always be garbage as long instant skills exist.

1- I fixed your first sentence for you, and your reply as a whole for that matter. Word structure is hard.
2- We should change any instant cast skill in the game #AllAboardTheLogicTrain
3- This game isn’t e-sports, and even if it was, it wouldn’t help your argument in this case based off what you’re saying.
4 – I could spend all day devising a rebuttal in response to #2 so savage that it would make you go crawl in kitten for a week. However I don’t want to buy another keyboard from the wear and tear from typing out a novel, it’s literally not worth the money.

Countless

Trigr.6481:

Burtnik.5218:

Trigr.6481:

Adding a cast time on a shatter is a pretty ludicrous thing to ask for. Shatter by design should always be instant.

Why should shatter be instant? Why any skill in game should be? Go go e-sport.. sorry this game will always be garbage as long instant skills exist.

1- I fixed your first sentence for you, and your reply as a whole for that matter. Word structure is hard.
2- We should change any instant cast skill in the game #AllAboardTheLogicTrain
3- This game isn’t e-sports, and even if it was, it wouldn’t help your argument in this case based off what you’re saying.
4 – I could spend all day devising a rebuttal in response to #2 so savage that it would make you go crawl in kitten for a week. However I don’t want to buy another keyboard from the wear and tear from typing out a novel, it’s literally not worth the money.

Countless

You write stuff like this and then I am the one who gets infracted for saying. GOT kitten