Necro lack of survivability is unacceptable

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Posted by: brannigan.9831

brannigan.9831

Just what the title says. I don’t know what to do exactly to change it (new amulet or new abilities or additions to current abilities) but the current situation is not acceptable. The class has almost no stability and super low toughness in the current meta builds. So even with 28k health and you manage to build up some life force you still die super easily to moderately sustained pressure. You are always picked out first to die in team fights as well which proves my point.

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Posted by: shion.2084

shion.2084

Part of the reason you are picked is because of the consequences of not picking you. And of course PTSD from last season To be fair, maybe some better escape options?

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

you’re picked out first to die because if the enemy teams lets you build lifeforce and just free cast from range you’re an absolute beast!

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: shion.2084

shion.2084

Ok but to be fair the reason the Necro is also picked is because it can be focused. Many other classes have access to some sort of invuln, so that if the entire team focused on them, it would be a complete waste of the burst. With a necro you know they can’t simply do the block,block,block, imune,imue,0,0,0,block thing. Which everyone else either has, or has a convincing escape to waste a focused burst.

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Posted by: Faux Play.6104

Faux Play.6104

If they significantly decrease the aoe pressure necros provide then sure.

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

you’re picked out first to die because if the enemy teams lets you build lifeforce and just free cast from range you’re an absolute beast!

Lifeforce can last very shortly, 100% dropped in 3 seconds has happened. I also think that any class freecasting could be equally dangerous.

If they significantly decrease the aoe pressure necros provide then sure.

What kind of pressure are you talking about?

EverythingOP

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Posted by: hurrado.2346

hurrado.2346

The devs must think they are too surviveable, just look at the last “balance” to rise. That was unacceptable and uncalled for.

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Posted by: Skittledness.5106

Skittledness.5106

What’s hilarious is that most of the community believes necro may be over tuned.
The point of necro is once you get a down, necro cleaves everything out making it impossible to Rez.

Also necro forces engineer and other classes out of the meta.
Necro is fine atm,it actually needs some minor nerfs

Jeffies Jeffie Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeffies Jeffie Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeffies Jeffie

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Posted by: UmbraNoctis.1907

UmbraNoctis.1907

Necro doesn’t force any class out of the meta. It is actually one reason, why engi is played – necro needs it as a babysitter/res-bot to be viable. And yes, necro has decent cleave against downed – which is good, you shouldn’t be able to res everything.

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

A necromancer damage is low and it’s only utility is boon corrupt. leave a necromancer build LF can be dangerous but always lesser than leave alone a DH, a Warrior, a Reve, a Druid or even a Tempest free to cast it’s skills from range (expecially a tempest with the staff, that cans eriously inflict a insane amount of AoE damage with staff Fire 5, glyph and lightning attunement overcharge, much more damage than a necro can do.

A necromancer can corrupt your boons: stability and resistance in primis, if the necro is able to wait for the right moment to active it’s corrupting skills (and lucky enough to corrupt stability instead of other “useless” boons).
About the damage, only the RS5+RS4 combo can inflict you enough damage to be considerated. More or less 15k in 4-6 seconds, that is lesser than every other class.
With they’re weapons skills a necro can do really poor damage. The best condi skill is Scepter 3, that need 7 conditions on the enemy to inflict 5k of damage over 4 seconds if he’s moving. Way lesser than a 3/4 sec casting reve sword 3 or DH lb 2. About the staff… no comments in it’s damage…
Basicly the condition and direct damage of the necromancer is ALL in the RS. And you can burst a necro out of it’s Full LF Shroud in 3-4 seconds if you focus him.
The boon corruption is the only reason a necro is good. Not for damage, not for survavibility, not for support, only for boon corruption. And if you play witht he signet build (the best corruption build of the necro) you can also ignore Soul Reaping and pick up Blood for that 16 sec CD signet when hit bleeding foes to corrupt more boons. You don’t even need the LF granted from Soul Reaping why if your team don’t protect you or don’t kill the enemy you’re corrupting, your only role is be constantly ressed by a engi or a ranger, just to don’t grant a numeric advantage to the enemy team.

The only real reason to kill a necromancer first is why it’s the ONLY enemy that you’re SHURE to KILL at 100%.
No total defence skills or damage mitigation skills, no movement skills good enough to flee from you (the wurm? a simple reve, dh, mesmer, thief teleport and you can continue to burst him down without mercy, or simply use your ranged weapon or movement skills to reach him fast), not any damage to fear of, no CC to stop you (fear? You’re a warrior, you have resistance, why do you fear fear? or anyway you have a lot of stability/stun breack to avoid it) , lack of stability.

Simply the perfect training dummy to burst down.
5 points+numeric advantage really easy to achieve. Nothing more.

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Posted by: lioka qiao.8734

lioka qiao.8734

I think their survivablity is fine. I’ve had trouble dropping them on my guardian.

I do love landing a moa on a necro in shroud (with my mesmer) with 10% hp left though. It feels so fun to totally ruin their day.

Little red Lioka

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

If you buff necro survivability, then you have to nerf their firepower to compensate.

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Posted by: Pyriall.1683

Pyriall.1683

I think their survivablity is fine. I’ve had trouble dropping them on my guardian.

I do love landing a moa on a necro in shroud (with my mesmer) with 10% hp left though. It feels so fun to totally ruin their day.

I agree, moa needs another nerf. It needs to be a projectile that can be reflected. Thank you A-Net!

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Posted by: Skittledness.5106

Skittledness.5106

Necro doesn’t force any class out of the meta. It is actually one reason, why engi is played – necro needs it as a babysitter/res-bot to be viable. And yes, necro has decent cleave against downed – which is good, you shouldn’t be able to res everything.

No necro absolutely forces engi out/ if both teams are running signet with well of corruption the engi gets feared instantly off the Rez because of the well and you get wiped

Ele is much better because it can actually support the necro rather than just Rezbot it

Jeffies Jeffie Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeffies Jeffie Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeff Jeffies Jeffie

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

If you buff necro survivability, then you have to nerf their firepower to compensate.

Necro don’t really have firepower its mediocre at best while also have the biggest weakness for tpvp + not that good in 1v1’s anymore especially if you start with 0 LF. I find it stupid that warrior is unkillable 1v1 its a joke how easy to kill necros with warrior. Trying to kite them ,dps them, use cd’s but our health just go down in seconds while their gets healed instead of taking heavy damage like they should. You cant have a good fight against warrior. Why not balance that every classes can kill eachother and better win? In the games before GW2 i was able to kill any class with any class if i were the better at timing skills etc. They were the biggest tab targetting mmos for both pve and pvp.

Btw im already searching for a bit more balanced game for pvp that have some form of dark magic class that i will play besides gw2

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

If you buff necro survivability, then you have to nerf their firepower to compensate.

Necro don’t really have firepower its mediocre at best while also have the biggest weakness for tpvp + not that good in 1v1’s anymore especially if you start with 0 LF.

I am sorry, if you think necro firepower is mediocre, I just can’t take you seriously. The reason every single team had a necro in the gw2 world championship was because their pressure is absolutely absurd. A necro is like a walking nuke that can completely destroy another team.

They are also super-easy to focus down, especially when the necro isn’t very good with positioning. Seriously, you should be hanging back and staying out of cleave as much as possible. I see WAY too many necros running and and yolo-ing like they are dragon-hunters and can just pop one of their million blocks. You have to play defensively until your team has an advantage, then go for the throat. You don’t go for the kill right at the start while the enemy has all his defenses and can proceed to just nuke you.

Necros don’t work super well in soloQ because teams don’t communicate and support them very well. On the flip side, necros are super-effective in organized play because they get the support they need to melt faces off.

If you are having trouble on your necro in soloQ, you can always take some decent survivability traits or utilities (like flesh wurm). I have seen some people actually play bunker necro pretty well (they just live forever but do no damage). However, you probably won’t take those survivability choices because they aren’t worth giving up the insane pressure of the skills you take.

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

If you buff necro survivability, then you have to nerf their firepower to compensate.

Necro don’t really have firepower its mediocre at best while also have the biggest weakness for tpvp + not that good in 1v1’s anymore especially if you start with 0 LF.

I am sorry, if you think necro firepower is mediocre, I just can’t take you seriously. The reason every single team had a necro in the gw2 world championship was because their pressure is absolutely absurd. A necro is like a walking nuke that can completely destroy another team.

They are also super-easy to focus down, especially when the necro isn’t very good with positioning. Seriously, you should be hanging back and staying out of cleave as much as possible. I see WAY too many necros running and and yolo-ing like they are dragon-hunters and can just pop one of their million blocks. You have to play defensively until your team has an advantage, then go for the throat. You don’t go for the kill right at the start while the enemy has all his defenses and can proceed to just nuke you.

Necros don’t work super well in soloQ because teams don’t communicate and support them very well. On the flip side, necros are super-effective in organized play because they get the support they need to melt faces off.

If you are having trouble on your necro in soloQ, you can always take some decent survivability traits or utilities (like flesh wurm). I have seen some people actually play bunker necro pretty well (they just live forever but do no damage). However, you probably won’t take those survivability choices because they aren’t worth giving up the insane pressure of the skills you take.

I think they just take necro for boon corruption. I don’t know where the meta necro have that absurd damage you talking about when its all about boon corruption + small support to allies. Also Flesh Wurm is a waste slot most of the time.

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Posted by: UmbraNoctis.1907

UmbraNoctis.1907

The main reason, necros were taken, was boon corrupt, which allows their teammates to nuke the enemy. This mighty create the illusion, that necros on their own were “nuking” the enemy, but usually it is mostly dmg from other classes (like rev). Condi necro has decent sustained pressure, but lacks any kind of burst (unless it gets some huge transfer off).

(edited by UmbraNoctis.1907)

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

If you buff necro survivability, then you have to nerf their firepower to compensate.

That is not how balance is made on this game.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Cheeseball C.8395

Cheeseball C.8395

As a necro main i dont mind how it is at the moment. Most people think its easy but knowing how to play it the optimal way, its arguably could be one of the most difficult classes to really understand and control situations perfectly. Theres a reason why there are so few truly good necros in comparison to classes like thief. People just say “oh carried by condis” but after the chill nerf, all the bandwagons get rekt. Hopefully tthe same will happen for the true dh mains

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Posted by: SmokinBuda.1398

SmokinBuda.1398

2 hp bars not enough?
Try a thief or fresh air elementalist and you will know what lack of survivability means.
But
Necros lack mobility and therefore often end up getting swarmed..you are also often the maintarget of the opposition and are getting assisted to death, your simply to dangerous to have freecasting.

Snowblind the Elementalist of Cantankerous

(edited by SmokinBuda.1398)

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Posted by: CntrlAltDefeat.1465

CntrlAltDefeat.1465

Every Team in championship…so you mean 0.0001% of player population?

Sounds reasonable we should base future game developments based on that percentage of players who had prepared, organised and practised for months for a singular team play.

I guess by that thinking warrior should in line for massive buffs, because only 2 players in the WTS used them. Both those teams lost. Therefore warrior must be weak being so poorly represented and not having any semblance of success.

How about we just don’t mention tournaments that required only one profession per team and only represent less than 0.1 percent of the player population.

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Posted by: abaddon.3290

abaddon.3290

I think their survivablity is fine. I’ve had trouble dropping them on my guardian.

I do love landing a moa on a necro in shroud (with my mesmer) with 10% hp left though. It feels so fun to totally ruin their day.

abusing exploits like this is complete bs btw.

im bad at sarcasm

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Posted by: Ninski.5680

Ninski.5680

Necro survivability is fine, position yourself properly, have team mates peel teleporting melee off you until you can get some condis out and life force generation, the class definitely is not “too squishy”.

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

Necro survivability is fine, position yourself properly, have team mates peel teleporting melee off you until you can get some condis out and life force generation, the class definitely is not “too squishy”.

If you think like this then you probably play one of the most powerful melee or easy classes. You are probably play a revenant or guardian most of the time.
You can’t survive or get out of focus as good as other classes. In 1v1 some classes counters you so bad you don’t have any chance because they have higher sustain + burst damage or higher mobility + burst damage by game mechanic. Their burst can be so high sometimes you are not even able to fight back and it can’t really be called as a “fight”

Competitive teams can make necro work with babysitting while still die 40 times per match doesn’t mean that it’s balanced.

Play necro solo q for weeks, months then tell the same

(edited by Rolisteel.1375)

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Posted by: Zelulose.8695

Zelulose.8695

Ya they are free punching bags that can do nothing but accept my DH 1.2k A.A every 1/2 sec. And an occasional 20k bomb once they waste their indispensable 2 dodges.

Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

It’s real simple.

The DPS went up game wide but the Life Force gain did not go up for Reaper.

Needs +1 form of disengage or enhanced Life Force gain. Not much, just a bit.

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: Zelulose.8695

Zelulose.8695

Rather, I would have their life steal potential go up making it on attack rather than on hit. or increase the healing of life steal to 300 hp and leave it on hit.

Lucky Leaf, Ángël, Clergyman, Side Kick -Lets make Gw2 a better game

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Posted by: MethaneGas.8357

MethaneGas.8357

It’s real simple.

The DPS went up game wide but the Life Force gain did not go up for Reaper.

Needs +1 form of disengage or enhanced Life Force gain. Not much, just a bit.

Everything went up, including healing and sustain. One of the problems for Necros is that while healing went up in the game (other classes throw around random heals which heal for 50000k), Necro can’t use those heals like 40% of the time cuz they’re in shroud. Right there is a huge issue. Everyone got even more sustain because they get healed by random AoE heals from other allies. Meanwhile Necros can’t get healed while in shroud and that makes them even more squishy in comparison to other classes which can benefit off of each other’s heals. Sure, we got a bit more lifeforce generation (Chilling Victory)… but other classes ALSO got sustain buffs (for example Druid, lmfao – literally straight upgrade from base Ranger), but other classes can ALSO be healed 24/7 while the Necro can’t. Necro’s Blighter’s Boon is another form of sustain buff, but then you lose damage output. Meanwhile other classes have damage AND heals.

I could try and pretend to imagine what Anet was thinking… but with the amount of cleanse in the game, even Chilling Victory and Blighter’s Boon provide very low sustain, from a pvp perspective. Chill gets cleansed right off = no more sustain. You get focused and CC-ed = can’t hit enemies who are chilled = no sustain. Nice.

Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Guardian and Warrior, DR[OHai]
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(edited by MethaneGas.8357)

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Posted by: SneakyTouchy.6043

SneakyTouchy.6043

I think if they toned down the survivability of other classes, particularly the DH, druid and scrapper, the necro wouldn’t have an issue.

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Posted by: Tim.6450

Tim.6450

I think if they toned down the survivability of other classes, particularly the DH, druid and scrapper, the necro wouldn’t have an issue.

It wouldn’t matter, you could still train down the necro at any time. This was a thing in the past as well.

EverythingOP

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

I think if they toned down the survivability of other classes, particularly the DH, druid and scrapper, the necro wouldn’t have an issue.

It wouldn’t matter, you could still train down the necro at any time. This was a thing in the past as well.

But if they toned down survivability of other classes to a level that they can be trained down just as easy as necro then it probably can work and after that every class can feel what necros feel for months, years etc.

Something has to be done for healthy game as anyone can see its far from being balanced pvp. Most balanced pvp i only had in the biggest tab targeting mmorpg’s some years ago. There wasn’t a thing you don’t have any chance against some classes or cant even do damage on him because they mitigate all damage + regen health back while also doing 2x more damage and you take the beating after your 2 dodges or just simply you are getting way too high damage you don’t even have chance to fight back.

(edited by Rolisteel.1375)

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Posted by: Rodzynald.5897

Rodzynald.5897

2 hp bars not enough?
Try a thief or fresh air elementalist and you will know what lack of survivability means.

>thief
>lack of survivability
>has crap tons of escape on demand abilities and lockdown capabilities.

Top kek

P.S.
Mobility = Survivability

Attachments:

Guardian is meant for jolly crusading.

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

damage mitigation, regen healing, mobility = survivability.

Thief have high mobility with very high burst damage.

Mobility is the best way of survivability but some classes have way more than just mobility. While some classes lack everything, no good mobility no good regen and not really good damage mitigation, no burst damage. so here is the imbalance in the game.

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

Necromancer have mediocre damage, with only a single “burst” combo (RS5+RS4 with Deathly Chill trait to inflict bleed), but you need 4 seconds to do your max damage, is the easiest combo to avoid ever (also just Moving away with swiftness or a movement skill). Then it’s not really a burst skill. And that burst do more or less 9k of condition damage, plus few direct damage. What a burst!
Necromancer lost a lot of damage (sometimes 50% of it) with the Deathly Chill nerf.

ANet granted to the necro a burst skill: Gravedigger. gravedigger is the only way for a necro to inflict huge damage in a single hit, but it’s so slow and easy to see that barely no one is fool enough to don’t keep a dodge, a block, a mobility skill to dodge it.
Also the Power necro is even weaker and useless than the condition one. Someone try sometimes to use the GS, falling to desperation after few matches learning that the GS is the worst weapon ever for th necro out of the common PvE, simply why the enemy player move away ad ignore his hit, making him waste all his damage.

Then, the problem of the necromancer is more the lack of Damage than of Survavibility.
If the necro was able to inflict Huge damage like in some past seasons, then yes, it will be good. It will be Feared by the enemy.
In S1 and S2 (if i dont’ remember wrong), it was feared why had a huge damage granted by Chill, that sometimes was up to half of his total condition damage.
it had problems against thieves and burst classes, but they was feared by his damage, making them fight more defensively and granting to the necro a way to kill them.

The problem frequently is not to Survive but to Kill the enemy. if we’ll become able to kill our enemy, then our totally absence of survavibility against a forus burst damage will be ok, like in some previous seasons. But now we have no survavibility, no damage and we’re no more feared by anyone.

A revenant, guardian, mesmer, thief, ranger, warrior that see us just want to face us in 1vs1 to burst us down why know that we’re totally unable to kill him (if he’s good).
Granting us a huge dps potential (like all the other classes…) would bring the necromancer back.

Don’t increase the survavibility, make us able to be feared again when faced in 1vs1.

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

I don’t want them to make us win every 1v1’s easy machines. I just want to be able to fight back to any class not just some and to see every classes health bar can go down from my attacks. Just as good and fast as necros health bar can go down from their attacks.

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Posted by: Krysard.1364

Krysard.1364

Necros are stuck in the opposite side of the spectrum than eles, theres just one thing for ’em (heals or dmg) and so they spec to fulfill that role at the maximum exponent, which makes more or less balanced builds, but also frustrating to play due to the obvious flaws. Both of them need some trait lines reworked to make sustain (maybe death magic) and DPS (maybe air or arcane) builds viable.

M I L K B O I S

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Posted by: Aktium.9506

Aktium.9506

The solution is not to buff Necro’s defensive or offensive capabilities. The solution is to nerf everything that was introduced with the HoT release in varying degrees. Make the numbers game smaller and LF will naturally become a stronger defensive tool.

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Posted by: minion.1987

minion.1987

as far as i know the only good necro is a condition one. as my other one that doesn’t use condition much always get’s melted.

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

as far as i know the only good necro is a condition one. as my other one that doesn’t use condition much always get’s melted.

Thats because power necro is even more squishy as you have to be a lot in melee range + no boon corruption which is not optimal for you if you want to survive a bit better with necro.

(edited by Rolisteel.1375)

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

The basic problem of necro is that the additional deathshroud is supposed to compensate their lack of other survivability. Unfortunatly this is a completely wrong approach because a) nec’s get focused to death before they can even build up that survivability, b) additional hp don’t matter that much in a game that has an insane power creep with so many builds running almost full zerker because they get survivability from their class while necros don’t and c) the additional hp don’t stop the enemy from hitting you. They can put everything they want on you. Sure you’ve got another 20k hp but how does it help you if you can’t move and are getting cc’d all the time? It’s just giving you another 4-6 seconds before the inevitable happens. What necro needs is an escape mechanic not necessarily survivability.

What I’d maybe suggest is changing the ds skills to F-skills, make them use up your gathered life force, let the necro consume his life force to get a heal (because besides kitten survivability necro also has some of the worst healing skills) and give him some more escape mechanics instead (or go even further and change the ds skills to give some more of that)

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: Rodzynald.5897

Rodzynald.5897

During a team match if necro’s teammates do a good job to keep him alive long enough to build up life force, the tables turn most of the time.
Based on my own experience with necro in the team or fighting against one.

Guardian is meant for jolly crusading.

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Posted by: Muchacho.2390

Muchacho.2390

The solution is not to buff Necro’s defensive or offensive capabilities. The solution is to nerf everything that was introduced with the HoT release in varying degrees. Make the numbers game smaller and LF will naturally become a stronger defensive tool.

Death magic was shiet pre HoT

And it still is. And thats mainly because of soul comprehension. On death trats are terrible in spvp in general but this trait is even bad where on death traits can be good. That minor trait needs to go.

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Posted by: NovaanVerdiano.6174

NovaanVerdiano.6174

Lets also keep in mind that half the necros kit, especially the good heals, have ridiculous cast times which can be interrupted by virtually everyone who isn’t asleep.
The fact that necros stand or fall with their team comp/having someone who babysits them should be proof enough that necro’s survivability isn’t good enough. Not to mention that life force gets easily bursted down and isn’t a replacement for blocks or evades etc.

Yes, positioning is important, but necro doesn’t even get good chances to reposition themselves once they’re getting focused (and lets face it, the enemy team is going to push into the backline early on just to get you)

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Posted by: Kuya.6495

Kuya.6495

The solution is to not buff or nerf corruption mancer in any way and seek to buff a necro spec that can be self reliant in solo q. I would recommend anet buff power reaper and give gs defensive utility. Anet just needs to modify traits in such way that its not possible to use the power spec buffs on the condi spec.

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Posted by: Tomiyou.3790

Tomiyou.3790

The thing is, when you allow necros to have good escapes and survivability, they become broken. I’d suggest Spectral Walk become an F2 skill and that’s it. Nothing else.

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

The thing is, when you allow necros to have good escapes and survivability, they become broken. I’d suggest Spectral Walk become an F2 skill and that’s it. Nothing else.

and whats the point? you port back to zerg and still die? Its a light armor caster. It needs a real teleport then if we want to improve mobility.

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Posted by: Krysard.1364

Krysard.1364

The thing is, when you allow necros to have good escapes and survivability, they become broken. I’d suggest Spectral Walk become an F2 skill and that’s it. Nothing else.

That would actually be amazing

M I L K B O I S

Necro lack of survivability is unacceptable

in PvP

Posted by: Ruru.1302

Ruru.1302

I think their survivablity is fine. I’ve had trouble dropping them on my guardian.

I do love landing a moa on a necro in shroud (with my mesmer) with 10% hp left though. It feels so fun to totally ruin their day.

abusing exploits like this is complete bs btw.

Forcing necros out of shroud with moa is not an exploit.

mag
[Mada] Apocryfia

Necro lack of survivability is unacceptable

in PvP

Posted by: MethaneGas.8357

MethaneGas.8357

The thing is, when you allow necros to have good escapes and survivability, they become broken. I’d suggest Spectral Walk become an F2 skill and that’s it. Nothing else.

That would actually be amazing

That would be really interesting….. deathshroud in beta (or alpha?) used to actually BE spectral walk xD

Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Guardian and Warrior, DR[OHai]
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