Guild Wars 2

If you want to be able to bang bodies, don’t play meta necro. Your best bet on necro is probably bunker MM necro, which have a ton of sustain but not much else.

If you play meta necro, you ARE going to die during the match. If the other team focuses you, then they can kill you eventually. Your mentality isn’t to “never die,” but instead to do enough damage (take out a couple people) before you die and be in position to be ressed/supported.

The problem is, since you rely on your team-mates to be able to support you and do enough damage before you go down, it is much less effective in soloQ than team play.

I WILL say, one change I would like to see is to allow external healing to effect you when in shroud form. This really hurts necro synergy with most support, as under pressure necros pop into shroud to surive at the same time team-mates will try to give them heals, doing nothing for the necro. This is one of the biggest weaknesses in soloQ imo.

BlackBeard.2873:

I WILL say, one change I would like to see is to allow external healing to effect you when in shroud form. This really hurts necro synergy with most support, as under pressure necros pop into shroud to surive at the same time team-mates will try to give them heals, doing nothing for the necro. This is one of the biggest weaknesses in soloQ imo.

This. It’s annoying as hell when one unleashes a bunch of burst healing on a necro when they’re low, and then they enter shroud so it’s all wasted. I don’t blame them of course, but something should really be done about that, even if it’s just like 50% of external healing getting through.

necros are strongest on team fights through disruption, boon corruption, and condition application

however we’re most vulnerable when in a team fight due to the inherent lack of invulnerabilities, blocks, et cetera

this is because shroud is our survivability mechanic and it doesn’t scale, like at all

so the solution is fairly simple

1. remove the passive life force degeneration while in shroud
2. change how damage taken in shroud works so that it scales
3. change it so that a necro only loses a set x amount life force every second while taking power damage. eg.
> necro activates shroud
> 1 sec timer starts
> does necro take damage? if yes, lose x life force. if no, life force remains the same
> 1 sec timer resets
> does necro take damage? if yes, lose x life force. if no, life force remains the same
this way the shroud scales, 1 or 5 players beating on the necro, regardless of power or condi builds, will only chunk off a set amount of life force. this will keep it fair and balanced in the way that condi builds can’t just consistently chunk off life force just due to condi ticks, they have to actually use power damage on the necro which is perfectly doable as literally any class/weapon combination
4. next give a baseline pulsing 1 sec stability to reaper shroud per sec to allow us to utilise our shroud abilities whilst in melee, if necro is being focused then they activate shroud 3 for additional stability as required
5. then allow necros to be healed through shroud, even if it’s at a 50% reduced effectiveness (not including sources of healing necros can already be healed with like life siphon)
6. finally allow necros to use or at the very least, see utilities, whilst in shroud
7. rework the soul reaping trait slightly to reduce life force lost on damage taken

it helps with the power creep in the game, it gives us the survivability we need in team fights but doesn’t give us instant wins in a 1v1 or 2 scenario, it makes up for the inherent lack of other sources of damage mitigation that other classes have access to, and gives us the much needed stability

thoughts?

BlackBeard.2873:

If you want to be able to bang bodies, don’t play meta necro. Your best bet on necro is probably bunker MM necro, which have a ton of sustain but not much else.

If you play meta necro, you ARE going to die during the match. If the other team focuses you, then they can kill you eventually. Your mentality isn’t to “never die,” but instead to do enough damage (take out a couple people) before you die and be in position to be ressed/supported.

The problem is, since you rely on your team-mates to be able to support you and do enough damage before you go down, it is much less effective in soloQ than team play.

I WILL say, one change I would like to see is to allow external healing to effect you when in shroud form. This really hurts necro synergy with most support, as under pressure necros pop into shroud to surive at the same time team-mates will try to give them heals, doing nothing for the necro. This is one of the biggest weaknesses in soloQ imo.

MM reapers have tons (kittening tons) of sustain and respectable pressure so yeah you’re kitten right with your opinions, if you play an amulet with no toughness on a class that can be easily trained..then prepare yourself to cry a lot.

The sustain necros can have can be crazy with the right gear, like eles they strongly depend on stats therefore you need to go soloq well prepared and you must know when to switch between MM reaper and normal corruptmancer.

If you have a team with 2 dh and a druid for example, then yeah you can afford to go corruptmancer and sit on the sidelines but when your team lack any resemblance of meat shield..then you must know how to change

Possibly to allow allies support to go through DS would make things easier…but we don’t know how much easier.

SoloQ is…Pure Chaos…their pretty carrion copy/paste build won’t work most times and they need to adapt, no ask for more sustain buffs which would make reapers OP again like during S1/2

It’d be time to realise that you don’t always lose because the enemy using a so called “OP” spec

If necro turns back to be strong as they was in S1/2 they’ll not be OP. That because now there’s no more a bunker meta and the dps of more or less every other classes can burst a necromancer out of shroud in seconds, killing it even easier if the necro don’t have enough LF. A focused necro can recive over 16k of damage in 1 second, stripping him away from every amount of LF he has.

I’m surprised people don’t use spectrals thought. They can make you pretty tanky…

Following the same kind of thinking, eles should get the celestial amulet back..but somehow I don’t think people here would be happy about it, they’s start saying that cele amulet is bunker meta blah blah. But cele amulet was removed just as mercenary, it seems the devs use different type of metrics.

You ask for necros to be feared again…why should you not be afraid of eles then? why any of you on other classes should not be afraid of facing an ele?

Look reapers do have a sustain/bunker build, esl meta or not..it exists, it may not do superior dmg like the meta build but it has the sustain you seek.

If necros are entitled to have a sustain/dmg/duellist build…..why eles should be denied the same thing?

The community seems to be happy to have eles restricted to a healbot role with no real 1vs1 capabilities…so why other classes should not be forced as well in a single role?

Reknarok.7582:

necros are strongest on team fights through disruption, boon corruption, and condition application

however we’re most vulnerable when in a team fight due to the inherent lack of invulnerabilities, blocks, et cetera

this is because shroud is our survivability mechanic and it doesn’t scale, like at all

so the solution is fairly simple

1. remove the passive life force degeneration while in shroud
2. change how damage taken in shroud works so that it scales
3. change it so that a necro only loses a set x amount life force every second while taking power damage. eg.
> necro activates shroud
> 1 sec timer starts
> does necro take damage? if yes, lose x life force. if no, life force remains the same
> 1 sec timer resets
> does necro take damage? if yes, lose x life force. if no, life force remains the same
this way the shroud scales, 1 or 5 players beating on the necro, regardless of power or condi builds, will only chunk off a set amount of life force. this will keep it fair and balanced in the way that condi builds can’t just consistently chunk off life force just due to condi ticks, they have to actually use power damage on the necro which is perfectly doable as literally any class/weapon combination
4. next give a baseline pulsing 1 sec stability to reaper shroud per sec to allow us to utilise our shroud abilities whilst in melee, if necro is being focused then they activate shroud 3 for additional stability as required
5. then allow necros to be healed through shroud, even if it’s at a 50% reduced effectiveness (not including sources of healing necros can already be healed with like life siphon)
6. finally allow necros to use or at the very least, see utilities, whilst in shroud
7. rework the soul reaping trait slightly to reduce life force lost on damage taken

it helps with the power creep in the game, it gives us the survivability we need in team fights but doesn’t give us instant wins in a 1v1 or 2 scenario, it makes up for the inherent lack of other sources of damage mitigation that other classes have access to, and gives us the much needed stability

thoughts?

I like that you are coming up with new ideas, but most of these are far too much (to begin with, anyway).

For a first buff, I would instead just go with:

1. remove the passive life force degeneration while in shroud
2. Allow 50% or so of external healing to get through shroud.

(((Also — on an off topic — I think that a trait for power-reapers should augment the effects of, and provide frequent access to Retaliation. Doing this would help boost the viability of power-reapers by taking advantage of the fact they survive pressure through face-tanking it)))

Then see where we’re at after this. I imagine it would be enough.

I just don’t get it!

Eles must use earth line 24/7 to survive dmg while necros here refuse to use Death magic

-Warriors must take discipline
-Revs must take retribution
-Engies take Invention
-Mesmers take Inspiration
-Rangers take Nature magic
-Guardians take valour
-Thieves take Trickery

But you necro take spite and blood magic or soul reaping…no death magic then you come here claiming misery on how high the sustain is on other classes when they all take the sustain line and you don’t

Death Magic is the equivalent of Earth Line:
: + 180 toughness when in shroud
: passive 20% LF regeneration from kills
: gain protection when leaving shroud

And you can ask to buff Unholy martyr so….

Why the hell necros ask for sustain buffs when you refuse to use your predefined defensive line to start with?
A meta reaper asking for sustain buffs is the equivalent of a fire/water/tempest mender ele asking for sustain buffs….ofc we all know what would be the community reaction :" d’huu you have earth line and that’s plenty of defense , take it and kitten"

kitten if necros think they should be allowed to have sustain while not using any sustain line..then all professions should have the same luxury, I want to be free of using a fire/air ele in pvp without being exploded in 3s, can I have it?

I want to play a markmanship/skirmishing druid and be a kitten..can I have it?
I want to play a zeal/radiance dragonhunter and still have huge sustain…can I have it also?
etc etc

What about you necros stop copy/paste Nos build and start using death magic line for your soloq experience?

Everybody must have tradeoffs if you want see big numbers on the screen or drop people fast with a condi burst..then something must be given in return

kitten really

Supreme.3164:

I just don’t get it!

Eles must use earth line 24/7 to survive dmg while necros here refuse to use Death magic

-Warriors must take discipline
-Revs must take retribution
-Engies take Invention
-Mesmers take Inspiration
-Rangers take Nature magic
-Guardians take valour
-Thieves take Trickery

But you necro take spite and blood magic or soul reaping…no death magic then you come here claiming misery on how high the sustain is on other classes when they all take the sustain line and you don’t

Death Magic is the equivalent of Earth Line:
: + 180 toughness when in shroud
: passive 20% LF regeneration from kills
: gain protection when leaving shroud

And you can ask to buff Unholy martyr so….

Why the hell necros ask for sustain buffs when you refuse to use your predefined defensive line to start with?
A meta reaper asking for sustain buffs is the equivalent of a fire/water/tempest mender ele asking for sustain buffs….ofc we all know what would be the community reaction :" d’huu you have earth line and that’s plenty of defense , take it and kitten"

kitten if necros think they should be allowed to have sustain while not using any sustain line..then all professions should have the same luxury, I want to be free of using a fire/air ele in pvp without being exploded in 3s, can I have it?

I want to play a markmanship/skirmishing druid and be a kitten..can I have it?
I want to play a zeal/radiance dragonhunter and still have huge sustain…can I have it also?
etc etc

What about you necros stop copy/paste Nos build and start using death magic line for your soloq experience?

Everybody must have tradeoffs if you want see big numbers on the screen or drop people fast with a condi burst..then something must be given in return

kitten really

You have highlighted a major issue with the specs right now. This is the reason players are bunkers with mard or beserker amulet. They need to fix the classes so they actually force players to make choices. More healing less damage. More damage less healing. That isn’t the case now they super buffed healing and removed all the amulets that increased healing. They should have nerfed healing and increased healing ratios and left the healing power amulets so that players were forced to play with less damage for superior healing.

Supreme.3164:

I just don’t get it!

Eles must use earth line 24/7 to survive dmg while necros here refuse to use Death magic

-Warriors must take discipline
-Revs must take retribution
-Engies take Invention
-Mesmers take Inspiration
-Rangers take Nature magic
-Guardians take valour
-Thieves take Trickery

But you necro take spite and blood magic or soul reaping…no death magic then you come here claiming misery on how high the sustain is on other classes when they all take the sustain line and you don’t

Death Magic is the equivalent of Earth Line:
: + 180 toughness when in shroud
: passive 20% LF regeneration from kills
: gain protection when leaving shroud

And you can ask to buff Unholy martyr so….

Why the hell necros ask for sustain buffs when you refuse to use your predefined defensive line to start with?
A meta reaper asking for sustain buffs is the equivalent of a fire/water/tempest mender ele asking for sustain buffs….ofc we all know what would be the community reaction :" d’huu you have earth line and that’s plenty of defense , take it and kitten"

kitten if necros think they should be allowed to have sustain while not using any sustain line..then all professions should have the same luxury, I want to be free of using a fire/air ele in pvp without being exploded in 3s, can I have it?

I want to play a markmanship/skirmishing druid and be a kitten..can I have it?
I want to play a zeal/radiance dragonhunter and still have huge sustain…can I have it also?
etc etc

What about you necros stop copy/paste Nos build and start using death magic line for your soloq experience?

Everybody must have tradeoffs if you want see big numbers on the screen or drop people fast with a condi burst..then something must be given in return

kitten really

Soul reaping. Seriously though maybe necro should just completely potato up. We even have an elite skill for that. The time it takes people to bake the potato would be the measure of necro effectiveness.

Zelulose.8695:

Supreme.3164:

I just don’t get it!

Eles must use earth line 24/7 to survive dmg while necros here refuse to use Death magic

-Warriors must take discipline
-Revs must take retribution
-Engies take Invention
-Mesmers take Inspiration
-Rangers take Nature magic
-Guardians take valour
-Thieves take Trickery

But you necro take spite and blood magic or soul reaping…no death magic then you come here claiming misery on how high the sustain is on other classes when they all take the sustain line and you don’t

Death Magic is the equivalent of Earth Line:
: + 180 toughness when in shroud
: passive 20% LF regeneration from kills
: gain protection when leaving shroud

And you can ask to buff Unholy martyr so….

Why the hell necros ask for sustain buffs when you refuse to use your predefined defensive line to start with?
A meta reaper asking for sustain buffs is the equivalent of a fire/water/tempest mender ele asking for sustain buffs….ofc we all know what would be the community reaction :" d’huu you have earth line and that’s plenty of defense , take it and kitten"

kitten if necros think they should be allowed to have sustain while not using any sustain line..then all professions should have the same luxury, I want to be free of using a fire/air ele in pvp without being exploded in 3s, can I have it?

I want to play a markmanship/skirmishing druid and be a kitten..can I have it?
I want to play a zeal/radiance dragonhunter and still have huge sustain…can I have it also?
etc etc

What about you necros stop copy/paste Nos build and start using death magic line for your soloq experience?

Everybody must have tradeoffs if you want see big numbers on the screen or drop people fast with a condi burst..then something must be given in return

kitten really

You have highlighted a major issue with the specs right now. This is the reason players are bunkers with mard or beserker amulet. They need to fix the classes so they actually force players to make choices. More healing less damage. More damage less healing. That isn’t the case now they super buffed healing and removed all the amulets that increased healing. They should have nerfed healing and increased healing ratios and left the healing power amulets so that players were forced to play with less damage for superior healing.

Finally somebody who get it!

You can’t have classes that heal for 2-3k every 6s at 0 healing power because you leave these professions free to go full ham on dmg without worrying about sustain, that’s why you can’t go power ele or necro, because you will be outsustained by default.

Supreme.3164:

Everybody must have tradeoffs if you want see big numbers on the screen or drop people fast with a condi burst..then something must be given in return

kitten really

Necros don’t have good condi burst (compared to other condi classes anyway), that went away when they nerfed chill damage. Necros are super annoying mainly due to corrupt boons, and well, a good number of HoT elite specs that everybody play these days rely on boons. It’s like Anet created this monster (HoT expansion & elite specs), and they forced necros into one role and one role only…to keep their monster in check with corrupt boons.

Not all necros liked being forced into one role. But if we have to be forced into one role, all people are asking for is a tad better defense. Everybody knows that necros are focus target #1, not because they’re super duper dangerous, but because they are the easiest to train down. Revs are dangerous too, their burst is much more potent, but they are focus target #2 after necros because they do have active defense and aren’t nearly as easy to train down.

You really think us necros haven’t tried death magic? Death magic being the “defensive” line doesn’t do necros much good. You can’t compare trait line to trait line across classes, like comparing death magic to earth magic. Reason being eles have both active & passive defense, necros don’t. Eles have blink & invuln, necros have this dreaded “2nd hp bar” that never really worked as defense pre-HoT, and definitely doesn’t work as defense post-HoT. Eles also have higher protection & aura uptime.

Anyways, I hate to be going back & forth between ele & necro to be honest. Both classes are hurting in their own ways, and both classes are asking for more roles & specs to be viable. By the way, in order for necros to corrupt boons properly & successfully, to be those annoying necros that we are, we need to use up the precious util slots. Example, a signet build would take 3 signets, and corruptionmancer build would load corrupt boons & well of corruption. This cuts into available utils we could load for any sort of defense. We’re also forced to take scepter and spam auto attack (Zzzzz).

TL;DR, death magic doesn’t solve any issues necros have, otherwise people would be running them. And even if a necro tanks up and wishes to play support, there’s no such build, necros by design are a selfish class that’s incapable of support. Also a tanky/power necro can be ignored completely as they pose no threat, and they are still surprisingly easy to train down as they have zero active defense. Power necros no longer have the ability to out-power or outsustain HoT elite specs. This is why necros are pushed into the corrupt boon role & builds related to corrupting boons.

Supreme.3164:

I just don’t get it!

Eles must use earth line 24/7 to survive dmg while necros here refuse to use Death magic

-Warriors must take discipline
-Revs must take retribution
-Engies take Invention
-Mesmers take Inspiration
-Rangers take Nature magic
-Guardians take valour
-Thieves take Trickery

Revs do NOT take Retribution. If they DO take Retribution, their damage drops a lot and tbh, their sustain doesn’t even go up that much (yeah, the revs you see bursting you like crazy are not using Retribution…. they have 3 DPS traitlines – think about that – tradeoff? not much… they still remain tanky while DPSing like crazy).

Supreme.3164:

But you necro take spite and blood magic or soul reaping…no death magic then you come here claiming misery on how high the sustain is on other classes when they all take the sustain line and you don’t

No. It’s Reaper. Reaper/Blood/Spite with 3 signets. You literally have 0 sustain and are super glassy. Why do they do it? Because either way you’ll die (even with the precious Death Magic) so might as well go full glass. Tbh I think that the build is kinda rubbish and I shake my head when I see people using it in SoloQ… anyway… This just just goes to show that you don’t play Necro much – Soul Reaping! is the Necro sustain line and it’s basically essential in 95% of the builds… so yes – we are also pigeon-holed into a traitline which we basically have to take., otherwise you become a squish-ball with no sustain. If we take Soul Reaping AND Death magic, the damage output goes down A LOT and the tradeoff between the survivalbility and damage is not worth it. Reaper/Soul Reaping/Death has very few corrupts and I don’t know if that’d even be worth it… but I guess taking Corrupt Boon could work. Who knows anyway….

Supreme.3164:

Death Magic is the equivalent of Earth Line:
: + 180 toughness when in shroud
: passive 20% LF regeneration from kills
: gain protection when leaving shroud

And you can ask to buff Unholy martyr so….

20% more lifeforce from kills is good? Normally, you get 10% lifeforce when an enemy player dies (which takes 500 years in this meta, and 10% is nothing). With death magic you get 2% extra lifeforce. Boo-hoo. That’s completely insignificant. The protection’s decent tho, but if you compare Death and Soul Reaping, Soul Reaping gives – 3.3% lifeforce per mark, gives a larger lifeforce pool (15% larger), gives you Spectral Armour (=protection and lifeforce) and makes your shroud degenerate slower (more sustain)… ….which is why the line is essential for 95% of Necro builds.

Supreme.3164:

What about you necros stop copy/paste Nos build and start using death magic line for your soloq experience?

Root of the problem – people copy-paste a glassy build instead of using – say – Spectrals…. or even Blighter’s Boon with Spite. I think you can do quite a bit to make yourself tanky as a Necro, but you have to sacrifice your damage output a LOT. The main issue, I think, is that other classes have to be nerfed because they have too much damage while also having great sustain. If you nerf things which are obviously OP, then ele, theif and Necro will come back up because things will be more level.

Supreme.3164:

I just don’t get it!

Eles must use earth line 24/7 to survive dmg while necros here refuse to use Death magic

-Warriors must take discipline
-Revs must take retribution
-Engies take Invention
-Mesmers take Inspiration
-Rangers take Nature magic
-Guardians take valour
-Thieves take Trickery

But you necro take spite and blood magic or soul reaping…no death magic then you come here claiming misery on how high the sustain is on other classes when they all take the sustain line and you don’t

Death Magic is the equivalent of Earth Line:
: + 180 toughness when in shroud
: passive 20% LF regeneration from kills
: gain protection when leaving shroud

And you can ask to buff Unholy martyr so….

Why the hell necros ask for sustain buffs when you refuse to use your predefined defensive line to start with?
A meta reaper asking for sustain buffs is the equivalent of a fire/water/tempest mender ele asking for sustain buffs….ofc we all know what would be the community reaction :" d’huu you have earth line and that’s plenty of defense , take it and kitten"

kitten if necros think they should be allowed to have sustain while not using any sustain line..then all professions should have the same luxury, I want to be free of using a fire/air ele in pvp without being exploded in 3s, can I have it?

I want to play a markmanship/skirmishing druid and be a kitten..can I have it?
I want to play a zeal/radiance dragonhunter and still have huge sustain…can I have it also?
etc etc

What about you necros stop copy/paste Nos build and start using death magic line for your soloq experience?

Everybody must have tradeoffs if you want see big numbers on the screen or drop people fast with a condi burst..then something must be given in return

kitten really

The sad fact about deathmagic is that every other traitline can give you better survivability even spite if you use blighters boon.

Currently there is only one reason to take deathmagic and that is a minion build.

For deathmagic to become a worthwhile defense traitline it needs alot of buffs and it needs to get rid of soul comprehension.

Supreme.3164:

MM reapers have tons (kittening tons) of sustain and respectable pressure so yeah you’re kitten right with your opinions, if you play an amulet with no toughness on a class that can be easily trained..then prepare yourself to cry a lot.

MM necros really don’t have that much sustain, they also don’t see any play at higher levels of skill because of how irrelevant they are in terms of their effect on a match.

Also necros do run defensive amulets. Every condi necro build is going to be in either Wanders (560 toughnesss), Carrion (900 Vitality) or Rabid (900 toughness), with the odd blood necro running sage (560 vitality, 560 healing power)

The fact of the matter is that necros get far less sustain even when using defensive builds than other classes do.
For a necro to be self-sufficient sustain wise, it has to take both soul reaping and death magic, at which point the necro has mediocre utility, and bad damage output.

There is a reason that the ESL teams pair their necros off with a rez scrapper.

The sustain necros can have can be crazy with the right gear, like eles they strongly depend on stats therefore you need to go soloq well prepared and you must know when to switch between MM reaper and normal corruptmancer.

There is literally 0 scenarios where going MM is actually a good idea. MM has poor mobility, poor burst, poor teamsupport, and mediocre damage.

If you have a team with 2 dh and a druid for example, then yeah you can afford to go corruptmancer and sit on the sidelines but when your team lack any resemblance of meat shield..then you must know how to change

Corruptionmancer performs vastly better against DH than MM does. DH simply cleave out MM’s minions too fast.

Crinn.7864:

Supreme.3164:

MM reapers have tons (kittening tons) of sustain and respectable pressure so yeah you’re kitten right with your opinions, if you play an amulet with no toughness on a class that can be easily trained..then prepare yourself to cry a lot.

MM necros really don’t have that much sustain, they also don’t see any play at higher levels of skill because of how irrelevant they are in terms of their effect on a match.

Also necros do run defensive amulets. Every condi necro build is going to be in either Wanders (560 toughnesss), Carrion (900 Vitality) or Rabid (900 toughness), with the odd blood necro running sage (560 vitality, 560 healing power)

The fact of the matter is that necros get far less sustain even when using defensive builds than other classes do.
For a necro to be self-sufficient sustain wise, it has to take both soul reaping and death magic, at which point the necro has mediocre utility, and bad damage output.

There is a reason that the ESL teams pair their necros off with a rez scrapper.

The sustain necros can have can be crazy with the right gear, like eles they strongly depend on stats therefore you need to go soloq well prepared and you must know when to switch between MM reaper and normal corruptmancer.

There is literally 0 scenarios where going MM is actually a good idea. MM has poor mobility, poor burst, poor teamsupport, and mediocre damage.

If you have a team with 2 dh and a druid for example, then yeah you can afford to go corruptmancer and sit on the sidelines but when your team lack any resemblance of meat shield..then you must know how to change

Corruptionmancer performs vastly better against DH than MM does. DH simply cleave out MM’s minions too fast.

So in the end you agree with me..if you want sustain, you must use sustain trait lines
What ESL team run is not of any concern for all of us on this forum as none of us play at that level and neither can count on the support of a coordinated team , we’re talking about soloq, a different set of rules applies.

If you run meta ESL tempest in soloq, you won’t last 10s to focus fire as your team won’t give a kitten whether you live or die, they’ll simply call you noob and rage quit if you don’t heal them as they rush rambo style in a 2vs4 or similar.

Similarly you can’t expect to run meta reaper and do well in soloQ, there you’re on your own and nobody give a —-- about you…except the enemy team who will focus you down the second you show up

Eles have been using water/arcana – water/earth since the launch of the game, you never had a fire/air ele as meta

If you want self-sustain, you should not be able to have that much of an influence in team fights like somebody who specifically use a teamfights build, nobody expect an ele to do superior dmg when using earth/water/tempest.

I’m sorry but I really can’t put myself in your shoes, if I look at necro trait lines , I see plenty of ways to mitigate dmg when using sustain trait lines:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Gasp
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vital_Persistence
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper's_Protection
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupter's_Fervor

And there are more including minor traits, if you combine all of them without doubt you get an extremely tanky reaper, now taking in consideration the base stats of a necro, I can use a demolisher amulet and I’d have 2.3k power, 1600 toughness and close to 20k HP without counting the easier to maintain RS bar with soul reaping

But necros have also utilities that mitigate dmg:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Rise!%22
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22You_Are_All_Weaklings!%22

You may argue that some professions can get away by using a single sustain line ( warriors-thieves) but the rest all use min 2 sustain trait lines ( 3 in the special ele case ty anet )…but reapers are the only ones who don’t use a single sustain trait line and claim then to have not as much sustain as other…I beg your pardon, I don’t exactly see any profession being able to survive focus fire if using 3 dmg trait line and full dmg utilities line

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Signet_Chillomancer

I don’t see any dmg mitigation save : spectral armour ….so why do you complain?

You talk about Necromancer but think like an Elem, you should play Necromancer and try to do some build and then you will understand why Necro are ignoring the most part of their “defensive” talents and at the end you will play the same kind of build the experienced Necro have designed.

Supreme.3164:

-Warriors must take discipline
-Revs must take retribution
-Engies take Invention
-Mesmers take Inspiration
-Rangers take Nature magic
-Guardians take valour
-Thieves take Trickery

As a main engi, the invention trait is optional to be honest, you can take tool tait over that and still survive kitten well if you know what you are doing, what it makes us survive is the alchemy trait, an engi with no elixir s passive is a dead engi for sure. (It would be another story if AED was actually a good heal).

I played mainly Necro and engie/scrapper, but i have played guard and warrior too and try other classes.

Something you will note when playing different classes is Necro is the only one providing no support at all to their team. So playing with lot of defensive talent means you are doing nothing for the team but surviving (may be) when elems (for exemple) still fart boon, heal and dispell.
So, at the end, you understand that the only thing Necromancer can efficiently bring in PvP are damage and corruption.

Silverthorn.8576:

I played mainly Necro and engie/scrapper, but i have played guard and warrior too and try other classes.

Something you will note when playing different classes is Necro is the only one providing no support at all to their team. So playing with lot of defensive talent means you are doing nothing for the team but surviving (may be) when elems (for exemple) still fart boon, heal and dispell.
So, at the end, you understand that the only thing Necromancer can efficiently bring in PvP are damage and corruption.

As a matter of fact I do play necro, I get focused hard but won’t go down easy at all

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0Adbid2AG1A0biFvBjqDECmAxJwH4FcqBEASAA-TpBGABAcIAS7IAkwFAohHAQ/lBcb/BA

Why GS? I love it, nightfall+death spiral+grave digger for massive cleave during teamfights, I start from distance with wells to build some LF, drop then a darkness well followed by gravedigger, when the well is over..drop nightfall and continue the aoe assault, if the enemy still standing: F1-5-4-2

I do believe you don’t need a video to see the kind of dmg I do…am I right?

I don’t play meta and you don’t see GS in PvP…but neither you see d/w tempest duelling/supporting team but I can, now whether or not people like it…I do well with this build, both in 1vs1 and teamfight scenarios.

I don’t heal people….I blind/cripple/chill/cleave the enemy..it’s called offensive support

If you call my build no support….I invite you right now to join me for a quick series of ranked matches, you’ll see that strong blind application can change the tides of battle rather quickly and that direct dmg necro can deal unholy amounts of dmg.

I’m not saying that this is a god given build and neither that you will win every 1vs1…but they will struggle to bring you down

If you believe that the only form of support your team need is healing..don’t play necro, if you think that boon corruption is the way to go in soloq where there is no coordination or similar..by all means keep playing carrion/triple signet corruptmancer and play zergmode…if you want sustain and still be useful…necro can do that also

Supreme.3164:

I don’t heal people….*I blind/cripple/chill/cleave the enemy..it’s called offensive support

It is called soft CC and every necro build has CC and Soft CC.

you’ll see that strong blind application can change the tides of battle rather quickly and that direct dmg necro can deal unholy amounts of dmg.

I’m not saying that this is a god given build and neither that you will win every 1vs1…but they will struggle to bring you down

i don’t know what is your skill bracket but if you have fun with this build, enjoy! It is the purpose of gaming!

Supreme.3164:

Silverthorn.8576:

I played mainly Necro and engie/scrapper, but i have played guard and warrior too and try other classes.

Something you will note when playing different classes is Necro is the only one providing no support at all to their team. So playing with lot of defensive talent means you are doing nothing for the team but surviving (may be) when elems (for exemple) still fart boon, heal and dispell.
So, at the end, you understand that the only thing Necromancer can efficiently bring in PvP are damage and corruption.

As a matter of fact I do play necro, I get focused hard but won’t go down easy at all

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0Adbid2AG1A0biFvBjqDECmAxJwH4FcqBEASAA-TpBGABAcIAS7IAkwFAohHAQ/lBcb/BA

Why GS? I love it, nightfall+death spiral+grave digger for massive cleave during teamfights, I start from distance with wells to build some LF, drop then a darkness well followed by gravedigger, when the well is over..drop nightfall and continue the aoe assault, if the enemy still standing: F1-5-4-2

I do believe you don’t need a video to see the kind of dmg I do…am I right?

I don’t play meta and you don’t see GS in PvP…but neither you see d/w tempest duelling/supporting team but I can, now whether or not people like it…I do well with this build, both in 1vs1 and teamfight scenarios.

I don’t heal people….I blind/cripple/chill/cleave the enemy..it’s called offensive support

If you call my build no support….I invite you right now to join me for a quick series of ranked matches, you’ll see that strong blind application can change the tides of battle rather quickly and that direct dmg necro can deal unholy amounts of dmg.

I’m not saying that this is a god given build and neither that you will win every 1vs1…but they will struggle to bring you down

If you believe that the only form of support your team need is healing..don’t play necro, if you think that boon corruption is the way to go in soloq where there is no coordination or similar..by all means keep playing carrion/triple signet corruptmancer and play zergmode…if you want sustain and still be useful…necro can do that also

There are alot of things wrong with this build.

To name some even if you run greatsword dont take soul eater. You wont get much of the lifesteal from gravedigger and the cd reduction is not worth giving up chilling victory and taking chilling death with a pure power amulet is bad. Blighters boon+ chilling victory+ strength sigil alone will make your build alot better. I also wouldnt take well of darkness, the cd is too long for what it does. You want some defensive aoe take corrosive poison cloud, it lasts longer has a shorter cd and poison, weakness and projectile hate together are better then simple blinds.

Silverthorn.8576:

Supreme.3164:

I don’t heal people….*I blind/cripple/chill/cleave the enemy..it’s called offensive support

It is called soft CC and every necro build has CC and Soft CC.

you’ll see that strong blind application can change the tides of battle rather quickly and that direct dmg necro can deal unholy amounts of dmg.

I’m not saying that this is a god given build and neither that you will win every 1vs1…but they will struggle to bring you down

i don’t know what is your skill bracket but if you have fun with this build, enjoy! It is the purpose of gaming!

Posting your build or even better a video of yourself playing surely takes more “skill” than acting all high and mighty on the forum protected from harsh criticism. verybody In the end of the day…nobody on this forum get paid to play, what esl teams run should not, will not affect you anyhow.

The tools to protect yourself are there, if you want to face tank dmg while healing then play something else

Supreme.3164:

I don’t heal people….I blind/cripple/chill/cleave the enemy..it’s called offensive support

All necros do that, and no, that’s not team support people are talking about. Team support is the ability to heal, cleanse, provide boons, stealth, ports, rezbot, etc.. for your allies. “Offensive support” is an interesting way to call it, but honestly offense is the only thing the necro class can do anyway.

A GS necro build with zero boon corruption. Your build will get eaten alive by just a single meta condi reaper. If you take blood magic, you should at the very least take well of corruption. It’s also funny you aren’t using death magic that you hailed so highly earlier, perhaps you do know a lil something about necro traits after all.

gavyne.6847:

Supreme.3164:

I don’t heal people….I blind/cripple/chill/cleave the enemy..it’s called offensive support

All necros do that, and no, that’s not team support people are talking about. Team support is the ability to heal, cleanse, provide boons, stealth, ports, rezbot, etc.. for your allies. “Offensive support” is an interesting way to call it, but honestly offense is the only thing the necro class can do anyway.

A GS necro build with zero boon corruption. Your build will get eaten alive by just a single meta condi reaper. If you take blood magic, you should at the very least take well of corruption. It’s also funny you aren’t using death magic that you hailed so highly earlier, perhaps you do know a lil something about necro traits after all.

Why do you play a necro if you want to heal/give boons/rezbot etc etc?

Could it be that necros want to do dmg, heal support allies and rezbot?

And btw any build supposed to lose to something out there, taking druids, scrappers and wars as example is not correct, those are broken specs that will be nerfed next patch or perhaps the one after

These posts are rly funny thanks. Anyone here really played the profession sreiously? I will give a few quotations:

1.Why GS? I love it, nightfall+death spiral+grave digger for massive cleave during teamfights, I start from distance with wells to build some LF, drop then a darkness well followed by gravedigger, when the well is over..drop nightfall and continue the aoe assault, if the enemy still standing: F1-5-4-2

2.If you want to be able to bang bodies, don’t play meta necro. Your best bet on necro is probably bunker MM necro, which have a ton of sustain but not much else.

3.Eles must use earth line 24/7 to survive dmg while necros here refuse to use Death magic.

4.Necros don’t have good condi burst.

I don t know why i find this here on the forum cause it is absolute nonsense. Sure it is some people s opinion but it is just wrong and confuses new players. First of all GS is the worst necro weapon for pvp. If u consider blind as a massive support go for well of darkness aswell or go for thief and blnd ppl constantly. This is one of the worst explanations ever seen.

Second thing if MM necro will be the strongest necro build, i will probably quit necro. It was never strong or even viable, same with GS. Don t want to argue furthermore bout that.

Third thing necro should take deathmagic traitline. At first i refused to comment that but i can t hold back anymore. Deathmagic is a bad traitline and only good for MM necro cause of the minions traits. Defensive needed traitline is soulreaping. The thing which influences meta builds is ur role and ur team. Necro right now with soulreaping is just inferior to warrior, cause way less sustain and same pressure. The only viable role atm to be better than other classes in some way is the damage role combined with a lot of corrupt. As the sustained team members can ress/support u anyway, u just build as offensive as possible, to bring more dmg than warrior for example. Ofc u can make a build which is tanky as druid but still useless cause less support, mobility etc. so where is the point in doin that? U d always prefer druid then.

Last point necro has no condi spike dmg. U maybe went deathmagic, nothing to say here.

All in all necro is in a bad spot in soloq as u rely on team support which is not that much given in uncoordinated play. Does it need more defense? Yes i think so but only for giving up some damage in return. If ress/support will be toned down, necro is not viable, because u need to give up a lot of dmg in return for sustain and warrior will be just better. The hard thing is to bring both specs in line to each other considering damage output and sustain aswell as cleave potential. Necro needs more sustain in another meta and probably it s dmg output lowered. Warrior needs less sustain in another meta, in this meta cleave increased.

I think people are just wanting a change, rather than having to be 100% reliant on team support, every game.

It’s not, “you do too much aoe damages, can’t self sustain.” It’s about game balancing. When a Necro is dependant on Matchmaking for an Engi, Ele, and/or Ranger comp, then you better have a darn good Matchmaking system or you’re succeptible to blowouts.

Ya, I feel they need a change of playstyle and matchmaking needs a big overhaul.

Supreme.3164:

Could it be that necros want to do dmg, heal support allies and rezbot?

Nope, as I understand, this thread started with necros asking for just a tad better defense. If it’s as easy as just nerfing broken classes, and I agree some classes are broken, then Anet would have to nerf just about every elite specs and revert HoT expansion launch. Since we know they won’t do that, necros are fine with just asking for a lil better defense.

You look at an “offensive support” powerhouse like the revs, they can burst with evade frames. They have blocks, a heal that convert all incoming damage to heals, and they provide real team support with boons even when they aren’t thinking about it.

You look at a meditrapper DH, while going through their dps rotations, they’re farting out heals, condi cleanse, and blocks. They have daze on trap, they have invuln, they provide boons to allies, and they’re surprisingly mobile for a class with access to all of the above.

Warriors & druids, well you said to not talk about them so I won’t. But these rules that necros have to abide by, we can’t have X because of Y, they somehow don’t apply to other classes. Just pointing out the double standards here. We can’t provide team support because we’re an “offensive support” class. We can’t have mobility because of necro. We can’t have active defense because a 2nd health bar is supposed to be better than blocks, invuln, stealth, evade frames, blinks, etc.. We can’t be healed while in shroud because, well nobody in the world could explain that one.

Nobody’s asking necros to be made op. Even if they just revert the stab nerf they did to our RS 3, and the Rise nerf, it would be a good start. These nerfs hurt both power & condi builds, even when power builds didn’t need a nerf in the first place.

gavyne.6847:

Supreme.3164:

Could it be that necros want to do dmg, heal support allies and rezbot?

Nope, as I understand, this thread started with necros asking for just a tad better defense. If it’s as easy as just nerfing broken classes, and I agree some classes are broken, then Anet would have to nerf just about every elite specs and revert HoT expansion launch. Since we know they won’t do that, necros are fine with just asking for a lil better defense.

You look at an “offensive support” powerhouse like the revs, they can burst with evade frames. They have blocks, a heal that convert all incoming damage to heals, and they provide real team support with boons even when they aren’t thinking about it.

You look at a meditrapper DH, while going through their dps rotations, they’re farting out heals, condi cleanse, and blocks. They have daze on trap, they have invuln, they provide boons to allies, and they’re surprisingly mobile for a class with access to all of the above.

Warriors & druids, well you said to not talk about them so I won’t. But these rules that necros have to abide by, we can’t have X because of Y, they somehow don’t apply to other classes. Just pointing out the double standards here. We can’t provide team support because we’re an “offensive support” class. We can’t have mobility because of necro. We can’t have active defense because a 2nd health bar is supposed to be better than blocks, invuln, stealth, evade frames, blinks, etc.. We can’t be healed while in shroud because, well nobody in the world could explain that one.

Nobody’s asking necros to be made op. Even if they just revert the stab nerf they did to our RS 3, and the Rise nerf, it would be a good start. These nerfs hurt both power & condi builds, even when power builds didn’t need a nerf in the first place.

Generally I think that people are against buffs when no trade off is offered, I don’t see necros ready to lose dmg/pressure to gain sustain, I don’t see suggestions to improve death magic or soul reaping..but rather suggestions that would make corruptmancer that much stronger, leading us back to S1 where teams were made up of 2-3 reapers spamming wells on a point.

Ha the irony….every season always ends up with a fotm spec that spam aoes on the point and you have stacks of them……maybe if anet would force a non stacking rule to soloq, things would be better overall

Anyway, druids and wars are kings of duelling/roaming so that leave the rest of us with the support bot role whether you like it or not.

Necro does not need personal sustain buffs, the class is plenty strong 1vs1 but has bad matchups..like everybody else; the only legitimate suggestion seen on this thread

- Allow external healing to pass through RS/DS- and that’s it!

You can deal with RS degeneration with soul reaping, whether you lose dmg or not…for the sake of balance, you will have to deal with it

Supreme.3164:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQJARWnc0Adbid2AG1A0biFvBjqDECmAxJwH4FcqBEASAA-TpBGABAcIAS7IAkwFAohHAQ/lBcb/BA

Why GS? I love it, nightfall+death spiral+grave digger for massive cleave during teamfights, I start from distance with wells to build some LF, drop then a darkness well followed by gravedigger, when the well is over..drop nightfall and continue the aoe assault, if the enemy still standing: F1-5-4-2

Recommendations:
Psig should be swapped for “suffer!” since suffer just straight outperforms Psig with Augury of Death, and you don’t have Spite for the siggy trait anyways. Granted you honestly don’t even need a utility condi clear if you are taking staff and consume conditions on top of those sigils of yours.

Well of Darkness is bad, and should be replaced with Well of Corruption or Well of Suffering. Well of Darkness only really works with Chilling Darkness which requires curses. Well of Corruption on the other hand works extremely well for rez denial.

Foot in the Grave isn’t getting you much. Shroud #3 gives you stability in shroud already and stun breaks are depreciated in this meta due to meta builds focusing more on interrupts rather than long CC.
————————————
The fundamental issue with your build is that you are overestimating the usefulness of blind fields (nightfall and Well of Darkness) The problem with blind fields is twofold.
-Blind fields don’t affect ranged builds that can work from outside them.
-Most melee builds have the tools to bypass blind fields. Warriors and Mallyx revs can ignore blinds with resistance. Thieves can simply disengage from the fields. Power Revs can use sword#2 and facets from outside of the fields, and can use sword#3 to ignore the blind field.

Besides if you really want to get the most our of blood/soulreap/reaper you ought to take advantage of the sage amulet for a condi + leech build which will net you better utility, better sustain, and better pressure.

I do believe you don’t need a video to see the kind of dmg I do…am I right?

I’m guessing really low.

Supreme.3164:

And there are more including minor traits, if you combine all of them without doubt you get an extremely tanky reaper, now taking in consideration the base stats of a necro, I can use a demolisher amulet and I’d have 2.3k power, 1600 toughness and close to 20k HP without counting the easier to maintain RS bar with soul reaping

If you compare professions’ health and toughness across the board and conclude “oh Necros have high vitality, they must be tanky” then you’re completely wrong. They have high vitality for a reason – they have NO evades, blocks, invulns… so they HAVE to have lots of HP. How else do you expect them to live? By using 5-second blocks or evades? Oh wait… they have none. So… they have high health bars. Oh. They have high health bars so that they can make up for having 0 evades, stealths, evades or blocks. Oh!
…. Classes with low HP pools have low HP cuz they have lots of evades/blocks/invulns. So for you to say “use demolisher and still be tanky” is just wrong. Using a glass amulet and having lots of health is an illusion. You can’t use a glass amulet and say “wow look, I have 20k HP, I must be tanky as a Necro”…. you’re not.

You may argue that some professions can get away by using a single sustain line ( warriors-thieves) but the rest all use min 2 sustain trait lines ( 3 in the special ele case ty anet )…but reapers are the only ones who don’t use a single sustain trait line and claim then to have not as much sustain as other…I beg your pardon, I don’t exactly see any profession being able to survive focus fire if using 3 dmg trait line and full dmg utilities line

Wrong. Necros do use Soul Reaping. The meta build doesn’t, but soloQ Necros do (those that don’t wanna rage quit) do use it. So yes, we DO use a sustain line… just like many other classes.
And also… “I don’t exactly see any profession being able to survive focus fire if using 3 dmg trait line and full dmg utilities line” ….. Revenants use 3 damage trait lines and they have the sustain of a someting like this, which is extremely tanky . So “excuse me” but am I missing something?

Once I tried a Death Magic – Soul Reaping – Reaper build (2 defensive traits plus reaper, our only source of stability). Did you know what happened?
I also usec corrosive poison cloud, that is unblockable, block projectiles and inflict a lot of weakness. Then, I had -10% damage from chilled players, -10% damage from poisoned players, virtually -20% damage from conditions with 300 toughness (if I was able to inflict 10 conditions in few seconds), the best LF generation traits and protection from active and passive spectral armor and when I exit from shroud.
I counted to have a LOT of passive ways to reduce damage with weakness and protection to be even better.

Made the build, I tried it in unranked, just to don’t immediatly against good players in ranked and make a lot of practice. Did you know what I found? That I was easy to get killed more or less the same way as before!
Warriors ignore my weakness with tons of resistance (and I had no ways to corrupt it why I used all defensive traits), revenants don’ìt even made me able to stack corrupter fervor in 1vs1 before I was down, fastkilled as always. A thief looked at me and sayd “ehy guy, I’m gonna kill you!” then i was down in 5 seconds without even be able to inflict chill. DH traps get me killed easy as always, but the poison cloud make him unable to use the LB for 8 seconds, then he had to go in melee with the GS, killing me anyway. A burst mesmer not even noticed the difference. A ranger won anyway, he outsustained me in every ways, full of boons, heals, with decent self damage plus OP pets that inflicted to me over 8k with a single skill. An engi grants me for my lack of damage, stunning me to death with high direct damage by hammer. I was able to fight against other necros, but my lack of damage granted me nothing than a 50/50 win by experience.

Now I play a MM build and it’s more viable in soloq simply why my minions do more damage than what I was able to with a chillomancer build. But every engi I fight moa me and make me lose all my minions putting them in cooldown and with them all my bonus toughness, my damage, my condi clean and condi damage (minion transfer) and also direct damage. And I don’t even talk about mesmers…

There’s a reason why only few necromancers chose to use a defensive trait line: we don’t have any defensive ability, making all our traits barely useless.
+180 toughness while in shroud? An enemy don’t even notice the difference! Not even while using corruptor fervor, goin up to +480 tough while in shroud.
-10% + -10% direct damage reduction while the enemy is chilled and poisoned? totally situational and also the enemy need only an extra hit to kill us, nothing more.

Before HoT I was able to chose an amulet with toughness, heal and condi. At this time I was able to go up to 3k toughness and even a little more and the bunker meta granted me to use them to usrvive and kill my enemy by sustain (I used traits to be able to sustain me even in healt with blood). Now even if i had 3k toughness the enemy would kill me. Slower but always easier than any other class. The reason is because a necro don’t have any kind of defensive skill. Not even Spectral Armor (still bugged for the mercy of ANet to work while in shroud) grant us defence because have an internal cooldown of 1 second. in 1 second, if focused by a dh, a thief and a rev, we can be hit for 18-20k of damage by a single hit of each of them.

in this meta if you don’t have active defences you’re doomed, nothing else to say.
Eles are forced into a bunker/support meta? We’re forced into a corruption meta just to be useful before die, because we die anyway not depending on our build or skills.

The issue with Necromancer’s survivability is that it doesn’t scale like the survivability of other classes. Active mitigation such as duration-based blocks and evades without charges offer the same survivability no matter how many players in any given fight whereas Life Force diminishes faster the more players are actively damaging the Necromancer.

Necromancers totally lack in any kind of skills to evade/block/immune to damage, even also direct or condi one, with no mobility. RS2 can be good but have an aftercast that sometimes make it useless, plus the fact that almost every other class can spam swiftness or have a lot of mobility skills. our only defensive skill is Spectral Armor, that have an internal cooldown of 1 sec, making it not really good as we hoped (i’d like to have it before the huge nerd, when he granted us 5% lf/hit without cooldown, making it scaling based on the number of the enemies). our other mobility skills are the wurm, that had to be placed before the start of the fight (then in a place where you’re not always shure it will be safe in the future), can be fast killed by everyone and have a cast time, making it useless as an extreme hope of salvation while running away from an enemy, also have frequent problems why not always teleport you in the position of the wurm, frequently there’s objects in the way, different levels or other things that make you teleport at random in the wurm direction instead of at the wurm position.

Then we have not real ways to negate damage or flee, with only some hp more than other classes. 8k more hp than a guardian? We have to be super tanky!! nope, a guardian lb2 can hit us for 6k, making us live one skill longer than a guardian. But a guardian, a warrior, a ele, a thief, a mesmer, more and more, they all have ways to flee from a bad situation. A necromancer don’t.

Then about the Plague Signet if is better Suffer or not… Signet is way better!
First of all both can clean up 5 conditions but plague Signet don’t depend on the number of enemies for the number of conditions transfered, is our only way to be useful for the team (rip condis from allies) and also grant us to collect conditions to send to our enemy making our condition damage better (if still not the best of the game) and have double the range of suffer.
No game, Plague Signet is way better

MethaneGas.8357:

Supreme.3164:

And there are more including minor traits, if you combine all of them without doubt you get an extremely tanky reaper, now taking in consideration the base stats of a necro, I can use a demolisher amulet and I’d have 2.3k power, 1600 toughness and close to 20k HP without counting the easier to maintain RS bar with soul reaping

If you compare professions’ health and toughness across the board and conclude “oh Necros have high vitality, they must be tanky” then you’re completely wrong. They have high vitality for a reason – they have NO evades, blocks, invulns… so they HAVE to have lots of HP. How else do you expect them to live? By using 5-second blocks or evades? Oh wait… they have none. So… they have high health bars. Oh. They have high health bars so that they can make up for having 0 evades, stealths, evades or blocks. Oh!
…. Classes with low HP pools have low HP cuz they have lots of evades/blocks/invulns. So for you to say “use demolisher and still be tanky” is just wrong. Using a glass amulet and having lots of health is an illusion. You can’t use a glass amulet and say “wow look, I have 20k HP, I must be tanky as a Necro”…. you’re not.

You may argue that some professions can get away by using a single sustain line ( warriors-thieves) but the rest all use min 2 sustain trait lines ( 3 in the special ele case ty anet )…but reapers are the only ones who don’t use a single sustain trait line and claim then to have not as much sustain as other…I beg your pardon, I don’t exactly see any profession being able to survive focus fire if using 3 dmg trait line and full dmg utilities line

Wrong. Necros do use Soul Reaping. The meta build doesn’t, but soloQ Necros do (those that don’t wanna rage quit) do use it. So yes, we DO use a sustain line… just like many other classes.
And also… “I don’t exactly see any profession being able to survive focus fire if using 3 dmg trait line and full dmg utilities line” ….. Revenants use 3 damage trait lines and they have the sustain of a someting like this, which is extremely tanky . So “excuse me” but am I missing something?

Rev are not naturally tanky…they have loads of dodges and evades that take practice, loads of it to use properly, since HoT release we never seen a triple/quadruple Rev team steamrolling everything….but we had this:

They may have nerfed chill dmg after 2 seasons of suffering and pleas from the community, but the condi spam is alive and well whether you like to admit or not.

The removal of dmg on chill is what allowed this burst meta to evolve, chill is already an extremely powerful condition, allowing it to do dmg was a huge blunder and we had no dragon hunters…without dragon hunters, revs would still be at huge disadvantage vs multiple necro teams.

With removal of all toughness/healing amulet and the inc nerfs to dreagonhunters, any sustain buff to reapers would catapult us back to s1 reaper condi spam meta in soloq, why is that?…Simple : just have couple of MM reapers traited for mediocre condi dmg , add some little dmg from other sources…..and neither an ele or druid would be able to sit on the point ( they already can’t btw)

DragonHunter is the only spec capable of sitting on the point..with that gone we’ll go back to double condi war/double reapers spamming condis on the point..with nothing that you can do really, who would stand a chance against this condi onslaught?

We can’t ignore the insta cast unblockable spam of which necros are capable, despite all that is being said in this forum, it’s extremely easy to play a condi reaper at low levels, the more sustain they get…..the more easier it becomes at all levels, it’s a spam and forget gameplay that does not need any more help

Any sustain buff to reapers not only must be limited to unused trait lines and utilities but also it must have substantial nerfs to necro/reaper overall pressure

Supreme.3164:

Rev are not naturally tanky…they have loads of dodges and evades that take practice, loads of it to use properly, since HoT release we never seen a triple/quadruple Rev team steamrolling everything….but we had this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtZFok_D_TI

They may have nerfed chill dmg after 2 seasons of suffering and pleas from the community, but the condi spam is alive and well whether you like to admit or not.

Of that video I remembered that, it’s basically a video of a unrealistic max damage build, where they purposely hide the precast of a blood is power and litterally procced every single proc possible. Even then it took 13 seconds too kill it. soo much killing power.

The removal of dmg on chill is what allowed this burst meta to evolve, chill is already an extremely powerful condition, allowing it to do dmg was a huge blunder and we had no dragon hunters…without dragon hunters, revs would still be at huge disadvantage vs multiple necro teams.

Chill is not an extremely powerfull condition otherwise we would have had more play with it befor reaper but it didn’t.

With removal of all toughness/healing amulet and the inc nerfs to dreagonhunters, any sustain buff to reapers would catapult us back to s1 reaper condi spam meta in soloq, why is that?…Simple : just have couple of MM reapers traited for mediocre condi dmg , add some little dmg from other sources…..and neither an ele or druid would be able to sit on the point ( they already can’t btw)

This is impossible.

Supreme.3164:

DragonHunter is the only spec capable of sitting on the point..with that gone we’ll go back to double condi war/double reapers spamming condis on the point..with nothing that you can do really, who would stand a chance against this condi onslaught?

Just take some more condition removal, a lot of builds lost a lot of condition removal. Most float around the level of pre-hot engi.

We can’t ignore the insta cast unblockable spam of which necros are capable, despite all that is being said in this forum, it’s extremely easy to play a condi reaper at low levels, the more sustain they get…..the more easier it becomes at all levels, it’s a spam and forget gameplay that does not need any more help

Also a lie.

Any sustain buff to reapers not only must be limited to unused trait lines and utilities but also it must have substantial nerfs to necro/reaper overall pressure

Sure buff trait lies that aren’t used but nerf the rest so you get a balanced 5 trait line condi mm reaper hybrid with 5 utilities.

Supreme.3164:

- Allow external healing to pass through RS/DS- and that’s it!

I actually agree with you on this one. I think it is a bad design desicion. Shroud should allow healing (or atleast x% of it, where x is variable).

Muchacho.2390:

Supreme.3164:

- Allow external healing to pass through RS/DS- and that’s it!

I actually agree with you on this one. I think it is a bad design desicion. Shroud should allow healing (or atleast x% of it, where x is variable).

I don’t think shroud should allow healing even a percent of it.

The problem with allowing even percents of healing through shroud is that the duration of shroud is extremely variable, and shroud is a 6 second cd. Even if only say 20% of healing goes through we’d likely see reaper/tempest or reaper/druid duos being nearly unkillable because enough healing would get through shroud to prevent a spike when the necro exits shroud.

What might be interesting is something that heals for a fixed amount every time we are affected by a external heal while in shroud. So say heal for 900 every time we get a external heal. The fixed nature of this makes it infinitely more balanceable.

ive always said necros need to be able to get regen/ healing from outside sources while in DS…. every other form or block stance w/e can still be healed except ds and that buff wouldn’t make necro any stronger on its own asides a little healing from self regen.

as of late ive made the argument to add it to the blighters buff trait that no one ever uses

Crinn.7864:

Muchacho.2390:

Supreme.3164:

- Allow external healing to pass through RS/DS- and that’s it!

I actually agree with you on this one. I think it is a bad design desicion. Shroud should allow healing (or atleast x% of it, where x is variable).

I don’t think shroud should allow healing even a percent of it.

The problem with allowing even percents of healing through shroud is that the duration of shroud is extremely variable, and shroud is a 6 second cd. Even if only say 20% of healing goes through we’d likely see reaper/tempest or reaper/druid duos being nearly unkillable because enough healing would get through shroud to prevent a spike when the necro exits shroud.

What might be interesting is something that heals for a fixed amount every time we are affected by a external heal while in shroud. So say heal for 900 every time we get a external heal. The fixed nature of this makes it infinitely more balanceable.

thats actually pretty false currently its fairly ez to 100 to 0 a necro ds in 5 seconds or less and downing a necro in a team fight would still be the targe. yes it would be more difficult but definetly wouldnt make them invincible by that logic any ele/x duo would be invincible lol not the case..

wardspratlin.9107:

thats actually pretty false currently its fairly ez to 100 to 0 a necro ds in 5 seconds or less and downing a necro in a team fight would still be the targe. yes it would be more difficult but definetly wouldnt make them invincible by that logic any ele/x duo would be invincible lol not the case..

Even if ds is going down in 5 seconds, that’s still a total damage shutout for 5 seconds, and the necro should be able to return to useable lifeforce levels within 10 seconds or so. If the necro is taking healing during shroud even such short shrouds, the necro will become nearly impossible to take down in scenarios involving supports.

Look I main a necro, and I know how craptastic soloqueuing without private support is. But allowing us to be healed in shroud would be way to much of a buff.

I would like to see better blind access, or my suggestion in my previous post.

Supreme.3164:

Rev are not naturally tanky…they have loads of dodges and evades that take practice, loads of it to use properly, since HoT release we never seen a triple/quadruple Rev team steamrolling everything….

What do you mean “not naturally tanky”… they have dodges and blocks and heals naturally with their weapons and legends…. without having to trait for them… thus, they are naturally tanky. They also have a medium health pool and wear heavy armour. In other words – tanky. Tanky in a sense of being able to handle pressure without dying.

You don’t seee quadruple rev teams because that’s not how a team really works. An effective TEAM needs more than one role. The role of a rev is a DPS role (but they’re also tanky on top of that and have team support, but that’s just a bonus).
And also…. double rev compositions were the meta until the single-class restrictions came into existence… so your point is moot xD If class stacking was still possible, you’d probably see 2 revs per team.

but we had this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtZFok_D_TI&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7&index=66

They may have nerfed chill dmg after 2 seasons of suffering and pleas from the community, but the condi spam is alive and well whether you like to admit or not.

1) This video was before Deathly Chill was nerfed. That means that the damage you see here would be much lower than it is here. I will agree that it was a bit too strong before, but honestly, classes have so much condi clears and there’s several “remove chill when dodging” around…
2) From this video, there’s that many condis because Weakening Shroud triggered, Chilling Nova triggered, Torment Sigil triggered, Ice sigil, Barbed Precision triggered, and Bitter Chill triggered 3 times. In other words, 4 traits and 2 sigils.
Today, the chill damage is gone. Instead, in this combo the golem would have 3 extra bleeds.
3) If you did the same thing with Revenant sword #3, with air sigil and blood sigil triggering, you’d be able to instakill the golem just as easily and actually probably much quicker. Wow power spam so OP.

Supreme.3164:

With removal of all toughness/healing amulet and the inc nerfs to dreagonhunters, any sustain buff to reapers would catapult us back to s1 reaper condi spam meta in soloq, why is that?…Simple : just have couple of MM reapers traited for mediocre condi dmg , add some little dmg from other sources…..and neither an ele or druid would be able to sit on the point ( they already can’t btw)

1)Those amulets were removed because when certain classes used them, they became god-like… and if dragonhunters are nerfed, their damage might take a hit, but their condi clears certainly won’t. The thing that makes dragonhunters so strong is the fact that they have literally everything. The scepter/shield build is immune to condis, so even if they got a damage nerf, they will still be immune to condis… still a counter to Necros.
2) The “condi spam” meta was there because 3 classes had great (but ovetuned) condi builds – Necro, Rev, Mesmer. If just Necros got a sustain buff, you wouldn’t even come close to season 1, in terms of condis.
3) Minion Masters… I didn’t realize they were a thing.

Supreme.3164:

DragonHunter is the only spec capable of sitting on the point..with that gone we’ll go back to double condi war/double reapers spamming condis on the point..with nothing that you can do really, who would stand a chance against this condi onslaught?

Dragonhunter won’t be gone – it will still be just as strong against condis.
If you have trouble against condis, make a build that can handle them cuz honestly, condis shouldn’t be a problem for you at this point. Almost every build out there has decent condi cleanse. Alternatively, play a druid or dragonhunter and have fun

Supreme.3164:

We can’t ignore the insta cast unblockable spam of which necros are capable, despite all that is being said in this forum, it’s extremely easy to play a condi reaper at low levels, the more sustain they get…..the more easier it becomes at all levels, it’s a spam and forget gameplay that does not need any more help

Insta cast unblockable spam? Which unblockable? Staff marks? They have a cast time. And for them to be unblockable, you need Soul Reaping —> Soul Marks. You said it yourself, the meta build doesn’t use Soul Reaping… so it doesn’t have unblockable marks. Aside from that, you absolutely need unblockabes. I’m sorry, but with the amount of blocks in this game, if you had no unblockable skills, blocks would be completely overpowered. If there’s lots of blocks, you needs a few unblockables – simple as that. And honestly, Necro staff marks aren’t even that dangerous. You call it spam, which means use #2,#3,#4,#5 in a row. If Necros spam marks like that, wait for them to spam, then cleanse it all off. It’s actually not rocket science.
And I just love how you dislike Reapers so much when they are one of the best designed elite specs… and other things at the moment are way more overpowered than Reaper.

Reapers may be easy at lower levels, but that’s true for most other elite specs as well which are even easier than Reaper at lower levels and are just as strong at higher levels. Reapers are actually hard to play at higher levels when you fight good players.
The problem is people (like yourself), at lower tiers don’t know what condi clears are or you spam condi clears without even knowing what hit you. You have to know what’kittenting you to know if you should cleanse it or not. Cleanse 2 bleeds, or wait for full burst and then cleanse? Your choice.

Crinn.7864:

wardspratlin.9107:

thats actually pretty false currently its fairly ez to 100 to 0 a necro ds in 5 seconds or less and downing a necro in a team fight would still be the targe. yes it would be more difficult but definetly wouldnt make them invincible by that logic any ele/x duo would be invincible lol not the case..

Even if ds is going down in 5 seconds, that’s still a total damage shutout for 5 seconds, and the necro should be able to return to useable lifeforce levels within 10 seconds or so. If the necro is taking healing during shroud even such short shrouds, the necro will become nearly impossible to take down in scenarios involving supports.

Look I main a necro, and I know how craptastic soloqueuing without private support is. But allowing us to be healed in shroud would be way to much of a buff.

I would like to see better blind access, or my suggestion in my previous post.

i Main necro aswell..

and you even proved my point the fact is you said it would take 10 seconds before we had usable levels of ds again

i dont understand your point… its not like having a support makes us invincible if i was war and i had a ele supporting me my war is not invincible nor any other class but yet i would have access to there heals 100% uptime dont act like owe well in 10 secs you could reset everytime…. no there isnt that many heals in the game unless you got 2 eles on you (but then you have no team dmg and would be true for any combination of professions) and as necro cant mitigate any incoming dmg they would still be the focus target every fight… but atleast then we wouldnt drop in 7 seconds and our allies wouldnt completly waste skills on something they cant control (no way to know when we will hit f1) … specially with this now we cant form parties in ranked so we cant even use coms to coordinate that….

also why i said add it to blighters boon trait at the end of reaper ( we would either have to drop deathly chill or onslaught) which would lower our dmg output signifigantly but yet make us way more tanky in team play but hardly invincible or OP bc it would still rely on allies to catch enemy bursts

Crinn.7864:

wardspratlin.9107:

thats actually pretty false currently its fairly ez to 100 to 0 a necro ds in 5 seconds or less and downing a necro in a team fight would still be the targe. yes it would be more difficult but definetly wouldnt make them invincible by that logic any ele/x duo would be invincible lol not the case..

Even if ds is going down in 5 seconds, that’s still a total damage shutout for 5 seconds, and the necro should be able to return to useable lifeforce levels within 10 seconds or so. If the necro is taking healing during shroud even such short shrouds, the necro will become nearly impossible to take down in scenarios involving supports.

Look I main a necro, and I know how craptastic soloqueuing without private support is. But allowing us to be healed in shroud would be way to much of a buff.

I would like to see better blind access, or my suggestion in my previous post.

i Main necro aswell..

and you even proved my point the fact is you said it would take 10 seconds before we had usable levels of ds again

i dont understand your point… its not like having a support makes us invincible if i was war and i had a ele supporting me my war is not invincible nor any other class but yet i would have access to there heals 100% uptime dont act like owe well in 10 secs you could reset everytime…. no there isnt that many heals in the game unless you got 2 eles on you (but then you have no team dmg and would be true for any combination of professions) and as necro cant mitigate any incoming dmg they would still be the focus target every fight… but atleast then we wouldnt drop in 7 seconds and our allies wouldnt completly waste skills on something they cant control (no way to know when we will hit f1) … specially with this now we cant form parties in ranked so we cant even use coms to coordinate that….

also why i said add it to blighters boon trait at the end of reaper ( we would either have to drop deathly chill or onslaught) which would lower our dmg output signifigantly but yet make us way more tanky in team play but hardly invincible or OP bc it would still rely on allies to catch enemy bursts

Reaper does not need to buff the most to return to how it was before the season 2, season 2 was terrible to have to face 5 reapers within each team, and even giving me absurd damage to conditions and joint damage, outside the survival that it was absurd.

At most what ArenaNet should give back to the reapers would damage the chill and freezing attacks had before.

Until dragonhunter are more balanced now that reaper the season 2

Crinn.7864:

Muchacho.2390:

Supreme.3164:

- Allow external healing to pass through RS/DS- and that’s it!

I actually agree with you on this one. I think it is a bad design desicion. Shroud should allow healing (or atleast x% of it, where x is variable).

I don’t think shroud should allow healing even a percent of it.

The problem with allowing even percents of healing through shroud is that the duration of shroud is extremely variable, and shroud is a 6 second cd. Even if only say 20% of healing goes through we’d likely see reaper/tempest or reaper/druid duos being nearly unkillable because enough healing would get through shroud to prevent a spike when the necro exits shroud.

What might be interesting is something that heals for a fixed amount every time we are affected by a external heal while in shroud. So say heal for 900 every time we get a external heal. The fixed nature of this makes it infinitely more balanceable.

Actually getting 900 health back on an external heal would be more op then just to allow healing in shroud. For example the bm trait transfusion then instead of 292*12 (for base necro 9) would give hp 900*12 to a friendly necro in shroud. But there are other examples of small heals (regneration, aoe passive heals like Soothing Mist) that would then became quite strong on necros.

But that not my point. My point is that healing should be allowed in shroud and if it makes necros to strong rebalance/rework the shroud. I simply dont think its a good idea to have a frequently used mechanic that completly prevents something integral like healing.

Though i would already be happy with regneration and all the heals from runes/sigils and necromancer skills/traits (like Parasitic Contagion, blood bond, well of blood etc.) would work while in shroud. Not that this would be optimal but past that point i actually wouldnt care much.

I was just spitballing numbers. Obviously it would have a ICD too.

But really healing through shroud does little for us because it completely misses the problem.

Necros already pair well with supports. That’s what allows the ESL teams to run glass necros since they can just pair them off with supports and they are golden.

What necros can’t do is function without a pocket support. And healing through shroud doesn’t address that. All healing through shroud does is make necros with pocket support excessively strong while still screwing over solo-queuing necros.

You are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.

I was just spitballing numbers. Obviously it would have a ICD too.

But really healing through shroud does little for us because it completely misses the problem.

Necros already pair well with supports. That’s what allows the ESL teams to run glass necros since they can just pair them off with supports and they are golden.

What necros can’t do is function without a pocket support. And healing through shroud doesn’t address that. All healing through shroud does is make necros with pocket support excessively strong while still screwing over solo-queuing necros.

You are solving a problem that doesn’t exist.