Sanity is for the weak minded.
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Necro needs more sustain - it sucks
one ds proc can corrupt 10 boons at once….. your going to get that more than you will finish a scepter chain on someone.
“Can” and “will” are two different things.
Procmancer is still bad for solo queuing. Would not recommend to friends.
regardless you are still going to corrupt more boons with that one trait than you will with scepter 1 chain. Getting the full scepter chain is much rarer than hitting your ds button.
Attention Moderators I am not
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
S P E E D Starr #0 Necro NA or
I Am NeXeD awful d/D ele NA
actually the primary source for boon corruption is the spite grandmaster now.
one ds proc can corrupt 10 boons at once….. your going to get that more than you will finish a scepter chain on someone.
“Can” and “will” are two different things.
Procmancer is still bad for solo queuing. Would not recommend to friends.
regardless you are still going to corrupt more boons with that one trait than you will with scepter 1 chain. Getting the full scepter chain is much rarer than hitting your ds button.
I’m so confused.
Are you talking about Spiteful Spirit?
Spite gm trait of the current metabattle build. One trait. 10 boons at once…? How??
You do know that Spiteful Spirit only corrupts one boon per target, right?
And were you really talking about corrupting a single target? Because then it’s really just 1 boon every 20-30 seconds or whatever your Shroud timing happens to be.
Also, there’s no trait or skill that could corrupt 10 boons on one target.
The best necros can do is 3 on Corrupt Boon and Spinal Shivers/Chill of Death.
Even if you were thinking of aoe corrupts, other skills can easily outperform Spiteful Spirit.
So, again, what are you talking about??
I wouldn’t mind buffs to blood magic. It’s not used on meta reaper anyway, so its not like the condi spam would get any worse. It might open up the possibility of playing a lifedrain power build. And i’ve always preferred power necro over condi. All classes should be able to run more than one build that are completely different from eachother.
But people seem to make the same baseless nonsensical arguments for necro being buffed that they do for ele. Buffing things that aren’t meta will open up new builds, it wont make meta builds any stronger.
Buffing necro sustain traits wont make the condi spammer stronger, same as buffing ele dps traits wont make healbot stronger. The people that keep arguing against buffing these things have obviously never played those classes and dont seem to realize theyre completely different builds that don’t even use the same traitlines, skills, or weapons.
actually the primary source for boon corruption is the spite grandmaster now.
one ds proc can corrupt 10 boons at once….. your going to get that more than you will finish a scepter chain on someone.
“Can” and “will” are two different things.
Procmancer is still bad for solo queuing. Would not recommend to friends.
regardless you are still going to corrupt more boons with that one trait than you will with scepter 1 chain. Getting the full scepter chain is much rarer than hitting your ds button.
I’m so confused.
Are you talking about Spiteful Spirit?
Spite gm trait of the current metabattle build. One trait. 10 boons at once…? How??
You do know that Spiteful Spirit only corrupts one boon per target, right?
And were you really talking about corrupting a single target? Because then it’s really just 1 boon every 20-30 seconds or whatever your Shroud timing happens to be.
Also, there’s no trait or skill that could corrupt 10 boons on one target.
The best necros can do is 3 on Corrupt Boon and Spinal Shivers/Chill of Death.
Even if you were thinking of aoe corrupts, other skills can easily outperform Spiteful Spirit.
So, again, what are you talking about??
its actually 2 boons per target. hit 5 people thats 10 boons.
im bad at sarcasm
its actually 2 boons per target. hit 5 people thats 10 boons.
Spiteful Spirit only strips one boon.
Axe 3 strips two.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
its actually 2 boons per target. hit 5 people thats 10 boons.
Spiteful Spirit only strips one boon.
Axe 3 strips two.
spiteful spirit procs unholy feast when entering shroud.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Feast “Boons Converted to Conditions: 2” if it only converts 1 then that seems to be a bug. it was added in October as a buff.
im bad at sarcasm
spiteful spirit procs unholy feast when entering shroud.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Feast “Boons Converted to Conditions: 2” if it only converts 1 then that seems to be a bug. it was added in October as a buff.
Whether it’s working as intended is up to debate, but that’s how it works.
IMO it should be two as that actually gives Power a lot to work with, but Spiteful Spirit is already a very strong trait even with just a single boonflip. It’s hard to say it should be buffed when Spite is a Power tree, but it’s being recommended for condi.
Nalhadia – Kaineng
spiteful spirit procs unholy feast when entering shroud.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Feast “Boons Converted to Conditions: 2” if it only converts 1 then that seems to be a bug. it was added in October as a buff.Whether it’s working as intended is up to debate, but that’s how it works.
IMO it should be two as that actually gives Power a lot to work with, but Spiteful Spirit is already a very strong trait even with just a single boonflip. It’s hard to say it should be buffed when Spite is a Power tree, but it’s being recommended for condi.
yup either way when i walk onto a point as a necro whoever i target immedietly loses all their boons including resistance. (not a necro main just play it from time to time) i feel your pain when it comes to solo queing. but assuming necro did get buffed and had team support there would be no killing them. period. as of right now they can wipe teams out 1 by 1.
im bad at sarcasm
Why you say none can kill necros if they get buffed and even if they have team support? They are the weakest/hardest class to play somewhat well in solo q.
It calls for buffs for solo play to be actually fun to play instead of running back from spawn to fights because you are 100% focused, most of the time none help you and you are happy if there are any teamplay in your solo teams. After being ressed you die instantly. etc.
We have Warriors Guardians and others we still can kill them just takes a lot more time to kill them than just kill a defenseless necro without much stability access. so that classes can waste the time of my team for their teams advantage because of too high survivability( damage avoidance spam ) crazy health regeneration/healing and kite so its either necro in need of buffs or others are in need of nerf hammers.
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
Why you say none can kill necros if they get buffed and even if they have team support?
We have Warriors Guardians and others we still can kill them just takes a lot more time to kill them than just kill a defenseless necro, so that classes can waste the time of my team for their teams advantage because of too high survivability( damage avoidance spam ) health regeneration/healing and kite.
It won’t happen. Necro is already near immortal with ele support.
Once again, why bring up most broken classes in game atm as comparison? Balancing around broken classes is how power creep is created.
All i see is: OMG i want to be as OP as DH/war, plz plz anet.
A lot of times i don’t have any support or don’t get any help and you talk about what if i have a skilled ele support. What if other damage avoidance spam and fast health regen kite classes have ele support?
If what i want is be OP then i could have rerolled DH/war/mes etc. long time ago already and kick most of the playerbase kitten instead of hard trying on necro without even using duo q once-
You don’t understand my viewpoint as probably you don’t spend most of your time playing necro solo q.
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
The thing is, unfortunately this game is balanced around team. Necro and ele are both team support right now. (and I feel your pain, I hate that role). Nothing can be done about it though unless they start balancing around 1 vs 1. If necro survivability is buffed, ele support will have to be nerfed. Ele has no build except for support. Buffing necro survivability would completely remove ele from pvp as a result. And no ele support means the opness of condi right now will become unbrearable leading to nerfs on necro, which will then remove it from pvp as well because then it will lack damage too. Necro and ele are both useless 1 vs1, they comliment eachother though. together theyre super powerful. Thats why no changes will be made despite how much necro and ele players both hate the current situation.
(edited by Nikkinella.8254)
its actually 2 boons per target. hit 5 people thats 10 boons.
Spiteful Spirit only strips one boon.
Axe 3 strips two.spiteful spirit procs unholy feast when entering shroud.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unholy_Feast “Boons Converted to Conditions: 2” if it only converts 1 then that seems to be a bug. it was added in October as a buff.
I’m just going to chime in on this one.
The trait used to cast unholy feast and also work with the cool down trait for axe.
Because it was the same skill it had a 15s cooldown and felt clunky and didn’t always work with shroud, especially if you used speed of shadows.
So same as weakening shroud, which used to cast enfeebling blood on shroud but now casts a skill called enfeeble, spiteful spirit casts a different skill under its own name that does the exact same effect. It even looks slightly different. This was all for the sake of making it better and removing it’s ICD. jan 2016
When the update went out a few patches ago they only changed one of the two skills to convert the extra boon and that was axe #3. If this is bugged or intended we do not know. oct 18th 2016
The game still considers the ability an axe skill and thus the trait makes it do more damage to vulnerable foes. Due to a patch this year, july 2016 ,it works with weapon damage allowing the skill to be ~10% stronger than the axe version.
Just give necros a little support..like as much as bodyblock..and you get swamped by condis in no time, it doesn’t take an ele to support a necro 24/7..all you need is bare min support and an inch of common sense, then you realise how broken is condi spam atm..no buffs to condi specs, game already unbearable
Just give necros a little support..like as much as bodyblock..and you get swamped by condis in no time, it doesn’t take an ele to support a necro 24/7..all you need is bare min support and an inch of common sense, then you realise how broken is condi spam atm..no buffs to condi specs, game already unbearable
this but it requires very good team and teamplay. if you don’t have those in solo q then we require some self defense and maybe a little bit of access to stability also in caster form.
Btw how do you spam condis if everyone is on you 24/7 zerging + using all cc they have on you immobilize you 24/7 etc.
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
Just give necros a little support..like as much as bodyblock..and you get swamped by condis in no time, it doesn’t take an ele to support a necro 24/7..all you need is bare min support and an inch of common sense, then you realise how broken is condi spam atm..no buffs to condi specs, game already unbearable
this but it requires very good team and teamplay. if you don’t have those in solo q then we require some self defense and maybe a little bit of access to stability also in caster form.
Btw how do you spam condis if everyone is on you 24/7 zerging + using all cc they have on you immobilize you 24/7 etc.
Becausee 3/4 of the enemy team is condi specced more than half the times and double necro is not unusual
yup either way when i walk onto a point as a necro whoever i target immedietly loses all their boons including resistance. (not a necro main just play it from time to time) i feel your pain when it comes to solo queing. but assuming necro did get buffed and had team support there would be no killing them. period. as of right now they can wipe teams out 1 by 1.
Well… not only did you not know how Spiteful Spirit works, but then you made it very clear that you got your almost non-existent experience as necro against the worst players in game.
Why you say none can kill necros if they get buffed and even if they have team support?
It won’t happen. Necro is already near immortal with ele support.
Against terrible opponents, yes.
Rolisteel is right. You are wrong.
It’s always the same, whenever there’s a discussion about necro balance, a ton of people who evidently don’t know anything about necro at all come flooding in and derail potentially constructive discussions with their absurd arguments from ignorance.
yup either way when i walk onto a point as a necro whoever i target immedietly loses all their boons including resistance. (not a necro main just play it from time to time) i feel your pain when it comes to solo queing. but assuming necro did get buffed and had team support there would be no killing them. period. as of right now they can wipe teams out 1 by 1.
Well… not only did you not know how Spiteful Spirit works, but then you made it very clear that you got your almost non-existent experience as necro against the worst players in game.
Why you say none can kill necros if they get buffed and even if they have team support?
It won’t happen. Necro is already near immortal with ele support.
Against terrible opponents, yes.
Rolisteel is right. You are wrong.
It’s always the same, whenever there’s a discussion about necro balance, a ton of people who evidently don’t know anything about necro at all come flooding in and derail potentially constructive discussions with their absurd arguments from ignorance.
necro was the main component that won in the ESL games. alongside ele.just because you cant do well with the class doesnt mean its a trash class.
im bad at sarcasm
(edited by abaddon.3290)
Spite/curses are the cherries on the cake..where the cake itself is RS so sorry to say that reaper would lose “much” dps without spite/curses..it’s really a nasty lie"
Note one of the things the OP wanted was to buff base shroud meaning the loss of reaper and all its traits all together.Being DM, which is terrible and contains the ONLY on death trait because “well its necromancer so something needs to be on death” ,and BM which is less bad but again still not great. Focus off hand which is a power weapon and for condi builds would mean the loss of warhorn which again is huge. Any buffs to focus are more a buff to power builds than anything
Anyways back to this quote since people think losing either of these lines is apparently negligible.
With direct relation to the meta build(s) this quote also a lie. Losing either of these two lines in the current meta build(s) IS a huge loss of damage. If you lose spite you lose vulnerability on chill. Cover condition and damage multiplier lost. Not only this but with deathly chill it means bleed is somewhat unprotected and will be almost always the first condition to be cleared due to LIFO.
Secondly you lose boon control and damage from CoD and from SS. Less chill -> less bleed and vulnerability ->less damage. One is AoE boon corrupt which gives less control to your team. Might, regeneration and vigour are so common and huge to corrupt for either damage reduction, heal reduction/removal or more damage. Also stability but everyone knows that one.
Lastly you lose a bunch of might generation which is a huge amount of damage in itself. It compounds with all the vulnerability the line generate for a very large damage increase.
If you lose curses you lose a bunch of condition pressure. You crits can no longer apply bleed. You lose a stunbreak/condi transfer meaning you are more susceptible to other condition builds. You lose more AoE boon corrupt and by extension more damage/ support/utility. You lose a bunch of crit chance so less power damage going out if using a hybrid amulet and from the same trait you lose condition damage..almost a whole rune sets worth. Lastly you lose more AoE boon corruption, bleed and weakness and weakness on crit which is a very strong condition as well as another cover condi.
so tl;dr you are wrong and losing either one of these lines IS a huge damage loss. No two ways about it. Giving up damage for survivability is how it is supposed to go and if DM and BM did their roles better it would be the case
(edited by Sigmoid.7082)
yup either way when i walk onto a point as a necro whoever i target immedietly loses all their boons including resistance. (not a necro main just play it from time to time) i feel your pain when it comes to solo queing. but assuming necro did get buffed and had team support there would be no killing them. period. as of right now they can wipe teams out 1 by 1.
Well… not only did you not know how Spiteful Spirit works, but then you made it very clear that you got your almost non-existent experience as necro against the worst players in game.
Why you say none can kill necros if they get buffed and even if they have team support?
It won’t happen. Necro is already near immortal with ele support.
Against terrible opponents, yes.
Rolisteel is right. You are wrong.
It’s always the same, whenever there’s a discussion about necro balance, a ton of people who evidently don’t know anything about necro at all come flooding in and derail potentially constructive discussions with their absurd arguments from ignorance.
necro was the main component that won in the ESL games. alongside ele.just because you cant do well with the class doesnt mean its a trash class.
flow probably doing well enough on necromancer and have good understanding of the class. But it doesn’t mean the class don’t have issues with being very easy to shut down especially in solo q.
We are talking again about ESL. Can you guarantee me ESL teamplay skill level teams for my solo matches? I sometimes get teams where players don’t have any teamplay. Players don’t work together so im almost there just to die with necro not able to disengage any fights, not able to avoid damage and kite enemies like all other classes do. Not that rare in my matches 2-3 of my teammates chase a single thief,mesmer,druid engi war etc. for minutes without any success or maybe at the end they finally kill it while we lose cap points. ye now do this on necro. Oh you can’t you are dead.
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
yup either way when i walk onto a point as a necro whoever i target immedietly loses all their boons including resistance. (not a necro main just play it from time to time) i feel your pain when it comes to solo queing. but assuming necro did get buffed and had team support there would be no killing them. period. as of right now they can wipe teams out 1 by 1.
Well… not only did you not know how Spiteful Spirit works, but then you made it very clear that you got your almost non-existent experience as necro against the worst players in game.
Why you say none can kill necros if they get buffed and even if they have team support?
It won’t happen. Necro is already near immortal with ele support.
Against terrible opponents, yes.
Rolisteel is right. You are wrong.
It’s always the same, whenever there’s a discussion about necro balance, a ton of people who evidently don’t know anything about necro at all come flooding in and derail potentially constructive discussions with their absurd arguments from ignorance.
necro was the main component that won in the ESL games. alongside ele.just because you cant do well with the class doesnt mean its a trash class.
flow probably doing well enough on necromancer and have good understanding of the class. But it doesn’t mean the class don’t have issues with being very easy to shut down especially in solo q.
We are talking again about ESL. Can you guarantee me ESL teamplay skill level teams for my solo matches? I sometimes get teams where players don’t have any teamplay. Players don’t work together so im almost there just to die with necro not able to disengage any fights, not able to avoid damage and kite enemies like all other classes do. Not that rare in my matches 2-3 of my teammates chase a single thief,mesmer,druid engi war etc. for minutes without any success or maybe at the end they finally kill it while we lose cap points. ye now do this on necro. Oh you can’t you are dead.
But once again, if necros got buffed eles would be nerfed to the ground and they already have only 1 role. You are basically begging to nerf eles for own sake.
I could also argument with opposite: where is guarantee that ele on your team won’t be good and keep necro alive? Where is guarantee that there will be no ele at all? You want to doom any team that doesn’t have necro/ele combo? We will have same issue as we have with DHs atm – there is 4-6 of them per match.
(edited by Shadowstep.6049)
For some reason people see the words necro and buff and just moan without realising what is actually being discussed and what’s being questioned to be improved.
Please tell me how Improvimg death or blood magic as a defensive/supportive traitline to actually be defensive/supportive is an issue. Especially death magic who, as a traitline, has been under preforming for a majority of the games life. Same with core shroud. (Harder to fix it’s spaghetti code though…)
For some reason people see the words necro and buff and just moan without realising what is actually being discussed and what’s being questioned to be improved.
Please tell me how Improvimg death or blood magic as a defensive/supportive traitline to actually be defensive/supportive is an issue. Especially death magic who, as a traitline, has been under preforming for a majority of the games life. Same with core shroud. (Harder to fix it’s spaghetti code though…)
Please tell me how it will stop necro ele combo being unkillable? Are you into s1 bunker style?
For some reason people see the words necro and buff and just moan without realising what is actually being discussed and what’s being questioned to be improved.
Please tell me how Improvimg death or blood magic as a defensive/supportive traitline to actually be defensive/supportive is an issue. Especially death magic who, as a traitline, has been under preforming for a majority of the games life. Same with core shroud. (Harder to fix it’s spaghetti code though…)
Please tell me how it will stop necro ele combo being unkillable? Are you into s1 bunker style?
All you have done is answer a question with a question. You haven’t addressed what I said.
For some reason people see the words necro and buff and just moan without realising what is actually being discussed and what’s being questioned to be improved.
Please tell me how Improvimg death or blood magic as a defensive/supportive traitline to actually be defensive/supportive is an issue. Especially death magic who, as a traitline, has been under preforming for a majority of the games life. Same with core shroud. (Harder to fix it’s spaghetti code though…)
Please tell me how it will stop necro ele combo being unkillable? Are you into s1 bunker style?
All you have done is answer a question with a question. You haven’t addressed what I said.
And you haven’t addressed what i said. You just asking for unkillable bunker meta all over again.
For some reason people see the words necro and buff and just moan without realising what is actually being discussed and what’s being questioned to be improved.
Please tell me how Improvimg death or blood magic as a defensive/supportive traitline to actually be defensive/supportive is an issue. Especially death magic who, as a traitline, has been under preforming for a majority of the games life. Same with core shroud. (Harder to fix it’s spaghetti code though…)
Please tell me how it will stop necro ele combo being unkillable? Are you into s1 bunker style?
All you have done is answer a question with a question. You haven’t addressed what I said.
And you haven’t addressed what i said. You just asking for unkillable bunker meta all over again.
Hi. If you played Necro, you would realize that without Spite or Curses, there is no such thing as “damage” with a Necro. Let me re-explain this again. You don’t take Curses, you don’t take Spite – your damage and pressuredrops significantly. Ok? Ok. So… if you don’t take Spite or Curses you will have much, much less damage. People are asking for a buff to Blood or Death traitlines so that they could be more survivable as a Necro. They would have to take these traitlines instead of Spite or Curses, and as was explained before, you’d have no damage then, but what you would have is some tanking potential. Poof. There we go. I guess we’re on the same page now.
Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Guardian and Warrior, DR[OHai]
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All you have done is answer a question with a question. You haven’t addressed what I said.
And you haven’t addressed what i said. You just asking for unkillable bunker meta all over again.
Your assumption is false. A necro with all the proposed defensive buffs in this thread plus ele would not turn into some bunker meta and it certainly wouldn’t be unbeatable.
Also, you’re asking us to prove a negative, but you’re the one who first needs make some valid arguments for your own claim. (spoiler alter: you can’t)
For some reason people see the words necro and buff and just moan without realising what is actually being discussed and what’s being questioned to be improved.
Please tell me how Improvimg death or blood magic as a defensive/supportive traitline to actually be defensive/supportive is an issue. Especially death magic who, as a traitline, has been under preforming for a majority of the games life. Same with core shroud. (Harder to fix it’s spaghetti code though…)
Please tell me how it will stop necro ele combo being unkillable? Are you into s1 bunker style?
All you have done is answer a question with a question. You haven’t addressed what I said.
And you haven’t addressed what i said. You just asking for unkillable bunker meta all over again.
My question which I asked first still remains unanswered. Tell me why improving an incredibly bad and underused traitline(s) and core shroud is bad?
You are too focused on he meta build, which these two traitlines do not cater too nor the weapon that’s suggested, focus.
To take something you lose something else. Do I agree with the ops suggested changes? No, do I agree that core shroud , death magic and blood magic are underused because they are weak, yes. When has anyone who has ever played a decent necro build though “I need death magic!” Never…
Literally the smallest of changes can turn a line or ability from bad to acceptable. Look at some of the recent changes over the past few months, small enough to not be huge but big enough to make something more viable and different tiers of play.
For some reason people see the words necro and buff and just moan without realising what is actually being discussed and what’s being questioned to be improved.
Please tell me how Improvimg death or blood magic as a defensive/supportive traitline to actually be defensive/supportive is an issue. Especially death magic who, as a traitline, has been under preforming for a majority of the games life. Same with core shroud. (Harder to fix it’s spaghetti code though…)
Please tell me how it will stop necro ele combo being unkillable? Are you into s1 bunker style?
All you have done is answer a question with a question. You haven’t addressed what I said.
And you haven’t addressed what i said. You just asking for unkillable bunker meta all over again.
Hi. If you played Necro, you would realize that without Spite or Curses, there is no such thing as “damage” with a Necro. Let me re-explain this again. You don’t take Curses, you don’t take Spite – your damage and pressuredrops significantly. Ok? Ok. So… if you don’t take Spite or Curses you will have much, much less damage. People are asking for a buff to Blood or Death traitlines so that they could be more survivable as a Necro. They would have to take these traitlines instead of Spite or Curses, and as was explained before, you’d have no damage then, but what you would have is some tanking potential. Poof. There we go. I guess we’re on the same page now.
I actually play necro, it is my second most played character in pvp. Yes, you won’t be able to condi burst enemies but you will be tanky enough to wear them down. Have you ever been on receiving side of the necro boon corrupt and condi spam? I get condi on me by literary attacking necro.
Wow, people must really hate Necromancers. OP puts together a reasonable request for buffing Necro defense in such a way that it would not buff the meta condi necro in any way, and everybody starts losing their heads talking about condi spam getting buffed, or eles losing their role, or necros becoming some sort of unkillable gods when paired with an ele.
Would like to point one thing out, EVERY class has better survival when paired with an ele. In fact, those other classes have better damage and survival on their own, and surpass anything the Necro could accomplish when paired with an ele. The reason why you think of necro when you think of ele, is because necro is the only class that NEEDS the Ele. And you guys telling Necros that they can’t have the option to TRADE damage for survival, something other classes do not have to do to the extent Necros do, because apparently they are supposed to be balanced around their Ele babysitters!? Get out of here with that crap!
A buff to Blood Magic and Death Magic gives us a Necro that puts out less offensive pressure while allowing him to stay in the fight a little longer in Solo Queue. This has the potential to increase build diversity without creating an OP Powerhouse.
Stop derailing this thread and spreading all this false information and try actually contributing suggestions to fine tune ideas on how to balance out the OP’s suggestions. And if you really think it could break the Necro, try to at least provide some details to back up your claim instead of whining about condi spam or Ele support, which have nothing to do with this thread.
Thats the problem some people don’t understand maybe they are too young or something and just write some crap to disagree with a bit of buff to necro that we want so they are more viable to play solo like every other classes.
But still the reality is what Shaogin write here. Its the only class that require ele to work. You can play it full solo you can hard try like me but a lot of times it wont be fun to die and run back to get cc locked, pull spammed,knockback, immobilized and other crap and zerged instead of play the game.
Would like to point one thing out, EVERY class has better survival when paired with an ele. In fact, those other classes have better damage and survival on their own, and surpass anything the Necro could accomplish when paired with an ele. The reason why you think of necro when you think of ele, is because necro is the only class that NEEDS the Ele. And you guys telling Necros that they can’t have the option to TRADE damage for survival, something other classes do not have to do to the extent Necros do, because apparently they are supposed to be balanced around their Ele babysitters!? Get out of here with that crap!
^
Thats the problem some people don’t understand maybe they are too young or something and just write some crap to disagree with a bit of buff to necro that we want so they are more viable to play solo like every other classes.
But still the reality is what Shaogin write here. Its the only class that require ele to work. You can play it full solo you can hard try like me but a lot of times it wont be fun to die and run back to get cc locked, pull spammed,knockback, immobilized and other crap and zerged instead of play the game.
Flames posters that disagree…. how ironical.
Think about it this way – ele also requires a team to work. So does a thief. Necro is not only class heavily dependent on the team comp.
Thats the problem some people don’t understand maybe they are too young or something and just write some crap to disagree with a bit of buff to necro that we want so they are more viable to play solo like every other classes.
But still the reality is what Shaogin write here. Its the only class that require ele to work. You can play it full solo you can hard try like me but a lot of times it wont be fun to die and run back to get cc locked, pull spammed,knockback, immobilized and other crap and zerged instead of play the game.
Flames posters that disagree…. how ironical.
Think about it this way – ele also requires a team to work. So does a thief. Necro is not only class heavily dependent on the team comp.
Just ignore his postings, he complains on every thread cause he needs buffs himself.
You need an ignore Mr. Duo Q farmer talk again when you get somewhere without duo q you think too much about yourself even tough you are not that good and you have like 2000 rating.
So the young ones attacking me now how nice.
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
Thats the problem some people don’t understand maybe they are too young or something and just write some crap to disagree with a bit of buff to necro that we want so they are more viable to play solo like every other classes.
But still the reality is what Shaogin write here. Its the only class that require ele to work. You can play it full solo you can hard try like me but a lot of times it wont be fun to die and run back to get cc locked, pull spammed,knockback, immobilized and other crap and zerged instead of play the game.
Flames posters that disagree…. how ironical.
Think about it this way – ele also requires a team to work. So does a thief. Necro is not only class heavily dependent on the team comp.
Just ignore his postings, he complains on every thread cause he needs buffs himself.
You need an ignore Mr. Duo Q farmer talk again when you get somewhere without duo q you think too much about yourself even tough you are not that good and you have like 2000 rating.
So the young ones attacking me now how nice.
If the game is to hard for u as necro maybe time to reroll. Or quit.
Something very wrong with you if you think the current state is fine as it is for solo play.
Probably you like to die a lot or something. Not sure about what you think and why you are against a bit of buffs to not die a lot more than other classes or be able to disengage or kite multiple foes without die in seconds.
So i really cant understand you. but anyway i end the conversation here as i know already we can’t go from 1 to 2. It is like talking to a brick wall
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
Wow, people must really hate Necromancers. OP puts together a reasonable request for buffing Necro defense in such a way that it would not buff the meta condi necro in any way, and everybody starts losing their heads talking about condi spam getting buffed, or eles losing their role, or necros becoming some sort of unkillable gods when paired with an ele.
Would like to point one thing out, EVERY class has better survival when paired with an ele. In fact, those other classes have better damage and survival on their own, and surpass anything the Necro could accomplish when paired with an ele. The reason why you think of necro when you think of ele, is because necro is the only class that NEEDS the Ele. And you guys telling Necros that they can’t have the option to TRADE damage for survival, something other classes do not have to do to the extent Necros do, because apparently they are supposed to be balanced around their Ele babysitters!? Get out of here with that crap!
A buff to Blood Magic and Death Magic gives us a Necro that puts out less offensive pressure while allowing him to stay in the fight a little longer in Solo Queue. This has the potential to increase build diversity without creating an OP Powerhouse.
Stop derailing this thread and spreading all this false information and try actually contributing suggestions to fine tune ideas on how to balance out the OP’s suggestions. And if you really think it could break the Necro, try to at least provide some details to back up your claim instead of whining about condi spam or Ele support, which have nothing to do with this thread.
Yeh there is clear balance issues
Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
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Necromancer/Casual Warrior
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My question which I asked first still remains unanswered. Tell me why improving an incredibly bad and underused traitline(s) and core shroud is bad?
Instead of buffing (power creep), lets nerf hot, elite specs not only ruined diversity but also included too many ways to bypass mistakes or make their outcome appear later.
Once the game its on a level of balance that it have prehot (without the cele problem), you could reevaluate each class problems.
Power creep will only mantain or make worse this meta and how forgiving it can be.
Instead of buffing (power creep), lets nerf hot, elite specs not only ruined diversity but also included too many ways to bypass mistakes or make their outcome appear later.
Once the game its on a level of balance that it have prehot (without the cele problem), you could reevaluate each class problems.
Power creep will only mantain or make worse this meta and how forgiving it can be.
I am not sure if I like this solution. I think it takes a lot of examination to really tell whether it’s a good idea. When expac 2 comes out and we get the next set of elite specs and their mechanics, we’ll be able to tell whether power creep is an issue or not. But in the meantime…
Core Shroud is not just weak; it’s unfun. It’s too slow, it feels clunky, and its abilities don’t synergize (900 range teleport-to-target projectile when your AA is a 1200 range attack- brilliant!). Would tweaking it up actually result in power creep?
Death Magic is a place where power ‘creep’ actually makes sense because it has a minor trait that simply does nothing and could be replaced with something servicable (soul comprehension).
Nalhadia – Kaineng
What I don’t like about necro right now is that you have to work almost twice as hard to get the same result as other classes.
I don’t know if it’s a sustain things, necro can be really tanky but the thing is with necro you actually have to trade damage for sustain.
This is not the case with warrior and DH for example, no matter what in any good build those 2 have automatic boons, automatic blocks, automatic resistance, automatic stun breakers, automatic everything.
They just don’t have to choose that much between damage and sustain, and that’s also the reason why there are a lot more builds viable on these classes than on necro.
The things I’m missing on necro compared to other classes are:
Stability
From traits or a utility skill that synergizes, but outside shroud.
Blocks
I don’t understand why necro shouldn’t have blocks when every other class that does also uses condi bursts like necro.
Faster animation
Maybe the most important one, I don’t get why there is so much difference in this. Especially scepter takes SO long to cast, compared to condi skills on other classes.
What’s the reason for this? It’s simply not fair / right, and should be even.
Overall synergy
I can’t name exactly what traits or skills are the problem now, but with whatever build I use on necro it just never feels right. There is always something out of synergy but you have to use it because you can’t miss it. This too is not the case with other classes.
It wasn’t like this before Reaper’s Shroud, I feel like maybe some traits should be switched from one specialization to another.
(Edit) For example:
Curses – Furious Demise: Gain fury when entering shroud.
Switch with:
Soul Reaping – Last Gasp: Gain Spectral Armor when your health falls below the threshold.
You probably don’t need fury when you take curses, and this helps with the life force problem when not going Soul Reaping.
Soul Reaping – Unyielding Blast: Shroud skill 1 causes vulnerability.
Switch with:
Death Magic – Shrouded Removal: Lose a condition when you enter shroud and every few seconds while you remain in shroud.
It just seems more logic to me to have this trait in Soul Reaping, because you want to stay in Shroud for longer when using this, which is what Soul Reaping is for.
And also I’d change Soul Reaping – Foot in the Grave: Gain stability and break stuns when you enter shroud.
This should give you stability when you EXIT shroud, when you enter shroud you often just want to use fear asap anyway, and then the extra stability is lost.
We need extra stability outside shroud, not in shroud.
(edited by Sun Lian.4075)
How would you counter necro with constant access to blocks and stab?
How you counter dh’s and warriors atm? The answer is the same.
How you counter dh’s and warriors atm? The answer is the same.
Once again, bringing up broken classes as example for balancing is wrong. So bottom line you want necros to be as broken as DHs and warriors. This is NOT how balancing works. I think this thread can be closed now.
My question which I asked first still remains unanswered. Tell me why improving an incredibly bad and underused traitline(s) and core shroud is bad?
Instead of buffing (power creep), lets nerf hot, elite specs not only ruined diversity but also included too many ways to bypass mistakes or make their outcome appear later.
Once the game its on a level of balance that it have prehot (without the cele problem), you could reevaluate each class problems.
Power creep will only mantain or make worse this meta and how forgiving it can be.
Except Death Magic, Blood Magic, Focus, and Deathshroud are all things that under-perform even on core Necromancer. Even if all the Hot Elite Specs were massively nerfed, these things would still need a buff.
Exactly, it’s same for DH and warriors now, why should it only be okay for those classes to have those constant boons?
The only thing is that DH is mainly block, and warrior is mainly resistance, but both have a lot of stability.
I wouldn’t want resistance on necro cause they can already cleanse and transfer a lot.
But more stablity and a bit of block really wouldn’t be that much luxury.
Exactly, it’s same for DH and warriors now, why should it only be okay for those classes to have those constant boons?
The only thing is that DH is mainly block, and warrior is mainly resistance, but both have a lot of stability.
I wouldn’t want resistance on necro cause they can already cleanse and transfer a lot.
But more stablity and a bit of block really wouldn’t be that much luxury.
Nobody says that DHs and wars are OK. Look at pvp section, there is constantly complains about those classes.
Blocks for Necro outside of Shroud is a potentially bad idea. If the Necro is able to sustain himself too well outside of Shroud, then that could cause some balance issues.
I know that the problem is DH and warriors, I would prefer those to be nerfed as well and not have changes to necro but I’m just pointing out what (atleast) necro is missing compared to those.
There’s just too much sustain going on.
And right now shroud really means nothing, that 2nd HP bar is gone in 3 seconds along with every skill and potentional combo that comes with shroud, it’s nothing compared to constant block and resistance boons.
Exactly, it’s same for DH and warriors now, why should it only be okay for those classes to have those constant boons?
Perhaps it’s because both classes need to be in melee range to be effective at fully.
Going melee means alot of enemy AoE’s around in most teamfights, meaning a higher useage of boons is a must.
Necro on the other hand doesn’t need to be in melee to be effective fully, on the contrary. Meaning you have less need for boons as builds that need to be in melee-range.
It all comes down to location and have your team cover your kiting, if needed.
(alot of Necro’s are just rushing into teamfights, standing on a ledge without thinking of kiting spots or keeping skills ready to disengage)
I think too many ppl are requesting changes based on Solo/DuoQ, which is a bad thing.
Builds shine most in a 5v5 with teamwork and comms.
I can guarantee you that Necro would “be much better” if we had ingame VoIP, for instance.
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