Necro should start match w/ some life force
1 2
Can necros please start pvp matches with at least 25% life force? We’re not like guardians or warriors where we start off the match with blocks and invulns at the ready. We’re not like thieves and mesmers that can evade and port away at any second from the beginning of match. We’re not like druids who, even though they start with no celestial force, still have access to weapon skill evades, water fields and blast, pets, leaps, immunity to direct damage and stability.
Life force is pretty much our biggest form of sustain (as well as stability….we have Chilled to the Bone, but that’s on hit, and it’s so easy to blind or interrupt…plus, it’s a bad idea to pop it so early just for the stab), and we start with zero life force while all the other classes have all of their sustain skills ready to be used from start?
Even after spamming marks and life force gain skills, we still end up with too little life force (like not even half), and it takes a while to even get our life force up to that point. Basically, as necros, we end up being liabilities and our teammates end up having to cover us until we get life force up, because everyone knows that as soon as a match starts, it’s “focus the necro.”
I’m not asking for a full bar of life force from start. But even just 25% at start would be amazing and give us a better chance to survive at start of match, when 3-4 people decide to all port/leap at you and bomb the ever-loving crap out of you because as a necro, you have no blocks, no invulns, no weapon-skill evades, no nothing, and you literally have to pop everything you have and all your dodges just to stay alive long enough to get your life force up. Usually by the time you have your life force up enough to barely pop into shroud form, your health bar is at like 15%, and you know as soon as your little bit of life force gets obliterated, you’re going to die.
So please, let us necros start matches with at least 25% life force. Please.
Staff auto attack gives 3% life force per hit. Your marks give between 10-15% life force per target hit. One Mark of Blood dropped in the initial team fight should give you just under half your life force (10% x 4 players), and with staff AA hitting every 3/4 second it should take you less than 20 seconds doing nothing other than AA and dropping marks to be at full force. And then of course every attack and ability while in Shroud generates life force, so as long as you don’t jump into a 1v3+ you should be able to generate it faster than you’re losing it.
Reaper Shroud is such a strong ability I don’t think it’s fair to be able to charge right into the melee swinging your scythe around right off the bat, and it’s not an ability designed to have >50% uptime (even though a skillfully played necro can manage >80% uptime even in a losing match with bad teammates and a skillfully played necro with good teammates is approaching 95% uptime).
*edit for addition
If you have 3+ people porting/leaping at you right off the bat, that’s a L2P issue on your part. Don’t go charging headlong into a teamfight’s melee range, you’re a ranged class with either invisible or hard to see projectiles and every map has a ton of terrain you can work around. Between your multiple fears, cripples, and chills and Signet of the Locust, very few classes (IE, thief/guard/druid) should be able to reliably close with you unless you let them.
(edited by Lucred.1802)
If it will cease the whining. Just start them off at 50% and let’s move on.
Sorry to break your hopes and dreams but i doubt this will ever happen. We have this topic since release and never anything happend… Though maybe you are lucky and after many years they will come to understand that necro has some stupid design decisions (like lifesteal from bloodmagic not working in shroud for many years and thus making the whole line lackluster (this was luckily fixed with the trait revamp, just to clearify)).
When will people learn Anet doesn’t like necromancers lol
They honestly don’t care about necromancers. They try to pretend they do, but they don’t.
Burn guards were pretty good not too long ago (and still are) but the instant guards became a more mediocre class Anet tightened their kitten cheeks and buffed them.
The Necromancer community is the least catered to playerbase. Necros can discuss and attempt to suggest some changes for years and Anet won’t listen. It is what it is. The most underdog class I’ve ever played in any game ever.
Think about this: Why does Moa kill all of necros minions but not engi’s turrents? That just shows you right there.
(edited by TheDevice.2751)
Staff auto attack gives 3% life force per hit. Your marks give between 10-15% life force per target hit. One Mark of Blood dropped in the initial team fight should give you just under half your life force (10% x 4 players), and with staff AA hitting every 3/4 second it should take you less than 20 seconds doing nothing other than AA and dropping marks to be at full force. And then of course every attack and ability while in Shroud generates life force, so as long as you don’t jump into a 1v3+ you should be able to generate it faster than you’re losing it.
What game version are you running and where can I find it?
i7-6700K – M.2 PCIe 512GB R/W:2500/1500MB/s
GTX 980M – SSD 512GB R/W:550/520MB/s
17.3" 1080p – 32GB 2400MHz DDR4
GTX 980M – SSD 512GB R/W:550/520MB/s
17.3" 1080p – 32GB 2400MHz DDR4
Staff auto attack gives 3% life force per hit. Your marks give between 10-15% life force per target hit. One Mark of Blood dropped in the initial team fight should give you just under half your life force (10% x 4 players), and with staff AA hitting every 3/4 second it should take you less than 20 seconds doing nothing other than AA and dropping marks to be at full force. And then of course every attack and ability while in Shroud generates life force, so as long as you don’t jump into a 1v3+ you should be able to generate it faster than you’re losing it.
Staff auto gives 4% life force but it’s so slow and underpower on power build and totally useless on condition build aside from regenerating lf but doesn’t do actual damage.
Marks give 3% life force only even if you hit multiple targets.
Not every ability regenerate life force only the autoattack on reaper shroud and only on the third attack and it’s 1.5% file force on a chain of 1.5s so 0.5% per second that’s basically just needed to compesate for the natural degeneration of life force.
So please before writing something wrong about a class that you clearly don’t know just take the time to verify what you’re writing.
Staff auto attack gives 3% life force per hit. Your marks give between 10-15% life force per target hit. One Mark of Blood dropped in the initial team fight should give you just under half your life force (10% x 4 players), and with staff AA hitting every 3/4 second it should take you less than 20 seconds doing nothing other than AA and dropping marks to be at full force. And then of course every attack and ability while in Shroud generates life force, so as long as you don’t jump into a 1v3+ you should be able to generate it faster than you’re losing it.
What game version are you running and where can I find it?
Whoops I actually screwed that up a little. But anyway,
—http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Signet_Chillomancer
“all your marks are unblockable and build life force” through Soul Reaping specialization Soul Marks, 3% per trigger
Necrotic Grasp generates 4% life force per hit and is your staff AA, can hit up to 5 targets for 22% of your life force in one attack (if you’re specced in Gluttony, otherwise 20%)
Feast of Corruption (scepter 3) generates 8% plus 1% per condi on the target up to 5%
Staff 1 strikes every 0.788 seconds with no haste according to the wiki.
When I get back from work I could post a video of my baby necro going from 0% life force to full in about 18 seconds, but that is admittedly on the target golems that don’t fight back. I do think it fair to say that in a team fight where you can hit multiple foes going 0-full in 20 seconds is doable frequently.
Look to the Revenant and the Mallyx Legend and you can clearly see that every good advices we gave to ANet to make a better necromancer was used to make the Revenant and his condi legend.
Always start with a fixed amount of energy that increase/reduce when go out of a combat, use condi to empower his damage, have a dedicated boon to be immune to conditions, a “shroud” (elite) that increase his statistics when used, mobility skills (also spammable), Blast Finishers (also a firefield and a triple blast shill in the same main hand weapon), a Good condi weapon (we have the scepter, that out of 4 sec torment don’t grant us any good condi damage, also corrupting the enemy boons, while they spam torment and burn), a condition offhand weapon (we have the dagger offhand that is the worst offhand weapon of the game, good only to send back 3 conditions, if you hit -why is slow and really easy to see and avoid-).
They used all our suggestions to make that class, leaving us with only a better version of the Shroud, but with melee range, that force us to go in short range against enemies that don’t even fear us why they can kill us way better then we can kill them, and a pure direct damage weapon on a condi/hybrid specializzation. Not a single core problem of our class was fixed. We only obtained a viable version of what we had before.
Anyway also with the staff and hitting multiple foes you need a lot to reach enough LF to enter in Shroud and be shure to even complete the Rs5+Rs4 combo, and in some battles you’ll not even able to do that with 50%of your LF.
Also Moa killing minions is a Huge nerf compared to other classes skills like engineer Turrets or Gyros (I don’t know about guardian spirit weapons, but they’re uselss anyway).
Whoops I actually screwed that up a little. But anyway,
—http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Signet_Chillomancer
“all your marks are unblockable and build life force” through Soul Reaping specialization Soul Marks, 3% per trigger
Necrotic Grasp generates 4% life force per hit and is your staff AA, can hit up to 5 targets for 22% of your life force in one attack (if you’re specced in Gluttony, otherwise 20%)
Feast of Corruption (scepter 3) generates 8% plus 1% per condi on the target up to 5%
Staff 1 strikes every 0.788 seconds with no haste according to the wiki.When I get back from work I could post a video of my baby necro going from 0% life force to full in about 18 seconds, but that is admittedly on the target golems that don’t fight back. I do think it fair to say that in a team fight where you can hit multiple foes going 0-full in 20 seconds is doable frequently.
You wrote right: against target Golems.
Enemies that move/dodge/block/invul/CC you/hit you/blind is a totally different thing. Also the enemy don’t attack you walking in a perfect line and granting you the chance to hit 4 enemies at time. During a fight if you hit 3 enemies with the staff AA you’re really lucky, and also you’re directly in front of your enemy team and that make you dead in more or less 5 seconds if you stay there charging your LF.
You can make your funny video but the only thing you will prove is that you don’t play the necromancer and don’t know how is hard to build up LF, expecially in hard matches where the enemy Focus You First why know that the necro is the easiest class to kill, making you flee for your life and die without be able to charge your LF by more than 30-40%. (and then you die without active it why you also know that this 30-40% will not save you anyway but will be useful for the time you will return into the fight, granting you a little base to be able to face your enemy).
On the paper everything is perfect and work at best. And on the paper the Reaper is really strong. But when you put it into play you’ll find how bad that class mechanic is.
Please, play at last some matches before talk about a class that you don’t know at all.
#necroscanthavenicethings
2016Edit:
#necroscanthavebasicthings
PvP guild [YUM] -apply- (EU) http://muffinspvp.shivtr.com/
Look to the Revenant and the Mallyx Legend and you can clearly see that every good advices we gave to ANet to make a better necromancer was used to make the Revenant and his condi legend.
Always start with a fixed amount of energy that increase/reduce when go out of a combat, use condi to empower his damage, have a dedicated boon to be immune to conditions, a “shroud” (elite) that increase his statistics when used, mobility skills (also spammable), Blast Finishers (also a firefield and a triple blast shill in the same main hand weapon), a Good condi weapon (we have the scepter, that out of 4 sec torment don’t grant us any good condi damage, also corrupting the enemy boons, while they spam torment and burn), a condition offhand weapon (we have the dagger offhand that is the worst offhand weapon of the game, good only to send back 3 conditions, if you hit -why is slow and really easy to see and avoid-).
They used all our suggestions to make that class, leaving us with only a better version of the Shroud, but with melee range, that force us to go in short range against enemies that don’t even fear us why they can kill us way better then we can kill them, and a pure direct damage weapon on a condi/hybrid specializzation. Not a single core problem of our class was fixed. We only obtained a viable version of what we had before.Anyway also with the staff and hitting multiple foes you need a lot to reach enough LF to enter in Shroud and be shure to even complete the Rs5+Rs4 combo, and in some battles you’ll not even able to do that with 50%of your LF.
Also Moa killing minions is a Huge nerf compared to other classes skills like engineer Turrets or Gyros (I don’t know about guardian spirit weapons, but they’re uselss anyway).
Are you serious here? Have you ever played condi rev? Do you think condi rev is superior to condi reaper?
1) condi reaper applys more condi than rev
2) condi reaper has a lot of corruption (you can corrupt malyx resistance)
3) condi reaper can more easily applys condi (spamming distance skills, large areas, large aoe, where rev have just small aoes)
If a reaper loose against a condi rev especily the condi minion master build, just delete.
You complain about reaper offhand but the rev axe is not so powerfull as condi.
The malyx elite? You describe it like the biggest skill but who use it in pvp?
Dont forget that when you switch to malyx you have to choose, is resistance, 2 boon strip or one dark zone, but you CANT spam all the things in a raw like you seem describe it.
A reaper dont have this choice.
Look to the Revenant and the Mallyx Legend and you can clearly see that every good advices we gave to ANet to make a better necromancer was used to make the Revenant and his condi legend.
Always start with a fixed amount of energy that increase/reduce when go out of a combat, use condi to empower his damage, have a dedicated boon to be immune to conditions, a “shroud” (elite) that increase his statistics when used, mobility skills (also spammable), Blast Finishers (also a firefield and a triple blast shill in the same main hand weapon), a Good condi weapon (we have the scepter, that out of 4 sec torment don’t grant us any good condi damage, also corrupting the enemy boons, while they spam torment and burn), a condition offhand weapon (we have the dagger offhand that is the worst offhand weapon of the game, good only to send back 3 conditions, if you hit -why is slow and really easy to see and avoid-).
They used all our suggestions to make that class, leaving us with only a better version of the Shroud, but with melee range, that force us to go in short range against enemies that don’t even fear us why they can kill us way better then we can kill them, and a pure direct damage weapon on a condi/hybrid specializzation. Not a single core problem of our class was fixed. We only obtained a viable version of what we had before.Anyway also with the staff and hitting multiple foes you need a lot to reach enough LF to enter in Shroud and be shure to even complete the Rs5+Rs4 combo, and in some battles you’ll not even able to do that with 50%of your LF.
Also Moa killing minions is a Huge nerf compared to other classes skills like engineer Turrets or Gyros (I don’t know about guardian spirit weapons, but they’re uselss anyway).
Are you serious here? Have you ever played condi rev? Do you think condi rev is superior to condi reaper?
1) condi reaper applys more condi than rev
2) condi reaper has a lot of corruption (you can corrupt malyx resistance)
3) condi reaper can more easily applys condi (spamming distance skills, large areas, large aoe, where rev have just small aoes)
If a reaper loose against a condi rev especily the condi minion master build, just delete.You complain about reaper offhand but the rev axe is not so powerfull as condi.
The malyx elite? You describe it like the biggest skill but who use it in pvp?
Dont forget that when you switch to malyx you have to choose, is resistance, 2 boon strip or one dark zone, but you CANT spam all the things in a raw like you seem describe it.
A reaper dont have this choice.
True a condi reaper beats a condi rev but but as a necro i would gladly take the rev axe offhand skills for the necro offhand dagger skills. Though i also think that condi revs probably would prefer the necro offhand dagger skills, since it is kinda good against revs weakness aka conditions.
you can already start the match with life force.. look it up.
Staff auto attack gives 3% life force per hit. Your marks give between 10-15% life force per target hit. One Mark of Blood dropped in the initial team fight should give you just under half your life force (10% x 4 players), and with staff AA hitting every 3/4 second it should take you less than 20 seconds doing nothing other than AA and dropping marks to be at full force. And then of course every attack and ability while in Shroud generates life force, so as long as you don’t jump into a 1v3+ you should be able to generate it faster than you’re losing it.
What game version are you running and where can I find it?
Whoops I actually screwed that up a little. But anyway,
—http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Signet_Chillomancer
“all your marks are unblockable and build life force” through Soul Reaping specialization Soul Marks, 3% per trigger
Necrotic Grasp generates 4% life force per hit and is your staff AA, can hit up to 5 targets for 22% of your life force in one attack (if you’re specced in Gluttony, otherwise 20%)
Feast of Corruption (scepter 3) generates 8% plus 1% per condi on the target up to 5%
Staff 1 strikes every 0.788 seconds with no haste according to the wiki.When I get back from work I could post a video of my baby necro going from 0% life force to full in about 18 seconds, but that is admittedly on the target golems that don’t fight back. I do think it fair to say that in a team fight where you can hit multiple foes going 0-full in 20 seconds is doable frequently.
This is just plain ridiculous. 0-100% in 18 seconds. any dps class can kill you well within that time. You also said if 3+ people are porting to you at the same time that is a l2p issue. What are you talking about? you cant prevent 3 people from porting to you even if you are staying behind. You really should play more pvp before writing paragraphs about it
You get 3.3% lifeforce per mark, but that’s no matter how many people you hit. You CAN build lifeforce before the match hits, but it’s super impractical. If you use Your Soul is Mine, you can use it 1-2 times before hitting the mid fight, but then you don’t have cleanse (because no consume conditions). If you use your wurm, you may not have it when you need it because it will be on cooldown. The only thing you CAN do, is hit barrels in Khylo and generate nice LF at home.
Necro, Ele, Mesmer, Guardian and Warrior, DR[OHai]
YouTube Channel
YouTube Channel
(edited by MethaneGas.8357)
Staff auto attack gives 3% life force per hit. Your marks give between 10-15% life force per target hit. One Mark of Blood dropped in the initial team fight should give you just under half your life force (10% x 4 players), and with staff AA hitting every 3/4 second it should take you less than 20 seconds doing nothing other than AA and dropping marks to be at full force. And then of course every attack and ability while in Shroud generates life force, so as long as you don’t jump into a 1v3+ you should be able to generate it faster than you’re losing it.
What game version are you running and where can I find it?
Whoops I actually screwed that up a little. But anyway,
—http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Signet_Chillomancer
“all your marks are unblockable and build life force” through Soul Reaping specialization Soul Marks, 3% per trigger
Necrotic Grasp generates 4% life force per hit and is your staff AA, can hit up to 5 targets for 22% of your life force in one attack (if you’re specced in Gluttony, otherwise 20%)
Feast of Corruption (scepter 3) generates 8% plus 1% per condi on the target up to 5%
Staff 1 strikes every 0.788 seconds with no haste according to the wiki.When I get back from work I could post a video of my baby necro going from 0% life force to full in about 18 seconds, but that is admittedly on the target golems that don’t fight back. I do think it fair to say that in a team fight where you can hit multiple foes going 0-full in 20 seconds is doable frequently.
This is just plain ridiculous. 0-100% in 18 seconds. any dps class can kill you well within that time. You also said if 3+ people are porting to you at the same time that is a l2p issue. What are you talking about? you cant prevent 3 people from porting to you even if you are staying behind. You really should play more pvp before writing paragraphs about it
If you have 3+ people focusing you within the first 10 seconds of a fight you were the first or only person from your team to get there at all play levels. end of story. It is a L2P issue. Don’t go charging headfirst into melee range in a team fight with no shroud, hang back and use the terrain and you won’t get focused because you won’t be on the point. Yes you won’t be building life force as fast as if you went all out spamming everything that builds life force into the thickest group of enemies you could find, but guess what? You’re not getting focused which means you have a significant amount of LF before you ever get attacked.
And that 0-100% is single target. Yes, it may be luck to hit 3+ people with staff AA in an actual match, but you’re hitting 2 people at least half the time due to the relatively long range of the attack and the relatively small points.
It is a L2P issue. Don’t go charging headfirst into melee range in a team fight with no shroud
QFT.
When will people learn Anet doesn’t like necromancers lol
They honestly don’t care about necromancers. They try to pretend they do, but they don’t.
Burn guards were pretty good not too long ago (and still are) but the instant guards became a more mediocre class Anet tightened their kitten cheeks and buffed them.
The Necromancer community is the least catered to playerbase. Necros can discuss and attempt to suggest some changes for years and Anet won’t listen. It is what it is. The most underdog class I’ve ever played in any game ever.
Think about this: Why does Moa kill all of necros minions but not engi’s turrents? That just shows you right there.
is it January 2105 because thats the last time i heard of burn guardians and turret engys being useful.
Seriously going to look threw these threads to find the last time someone complained about either.
Ohhh and also giving players like Nos and Kaypud life force to start a match says which class will be OP as a mofo when facing them.
When will people learn Anet doesn’t like necromancers lol
They honestly don’t care about necromancers. They try to pretend they do, but they don’t.
Burn guards were pretty good not too long ago (and still are) but the instant guards became a more mediocre class Anet tightened their kitten cheeks and buffed them.
The Necromancer community is the least catered to playerbase. Necros can discuss and attempt to suggest some changes for years and Anet won’t listen. It is what it is. The most underdog class I’ve ever played in any game ever.
Think about this: Why does Moa kill all of necros minions but not engi’s turrents? That just shows you right there.
is it January 2105 because thats the last time i heard of burn guardians and turret engys being useful.
Seriously going to look threw these threads to find the last time someone complained about either.
Ohhh and also giving players like Nos and Kaypud life force to start a match says which class will be OP as a mofo when facing them.
Yeah so that means anything anyone hasn’t complained about isn’t viable. Your logic is sound. only it isnt. Nobody complains about Minions… so I guess that makes them just as useless.
Ohhh and balancing the entire class on account of two players has to be the silliest thing I’ve actually every heard. Not to mention 2 people I’ve never even heard of. Gw2 “pro’s” come and go. Just because some guy spends every day of his early 20’s trying to “get gud” at a class doesn’t mean we should be basing balance off their performance.
Its called balance. What you don’t seem to understand about necros (and I extend the lack of knowledge to Anet themselves) is that necromancers need to build up their power budged while all the other classes do not. Necromancers have to build up LF just to be on par with the strengths of all the other classes. Not to be stronger. Not to live longer, but to try and achieve a semblance of usefulness already afforded everyone else.
Guardians don’t have to work to get all the blocks and invuln. They just start with it. They just have to wait for the cooldown.
Lets also not forget
Blocks, invuln, evades etc, are ALWAYS going to be stronger than straight up life. Necromancers have a lot of life but they’re also rag dolls and have to take just about every bit of condition that comes their way. They get blinded, cc’d, dazed, confused, and everything else. When you block, you block. Nothing happens to you. Whats more, is while you block or evade or are invuln, you can heal. You cant heal in DS.
But just like Anet devs, you don’t care. It doesn’t matter to you because you don’t play necromancers.
(edited by TheDevice.2751)
Can necros please start pvp matches with at least 25% life force? We’re not like guardians or warriors where we start off the match with blocks and invulns at the ready. We’re not like thieves and mesmers that can evade and port away at any second from the beginning of match. We’re not like druids who, even though they start with no celestial force, still have access to weapon skill evades, water fields and blast, pets, leaps, immunity to direct damage and stability.
Life force is pretty much our biggest form of sustain (as well as stability….we have Chilled to the Bone, but that’s on hit, and it’s so easy to blind or interrupt…plus, it’s a bad idea to pop it so early just for the stab), and we start with zero life force while all the other classes have all of their sustain skills ready to be used from start?
Even after spamming marks and life force gain skills, we still end up with too little life force (like not even half), and it takes a while to even get our life force up to that point. Basically, as necros, we end up being liabilities and our teammates end up having to cover us until we get life force up, because everyone knows that as soon as a match starts, it’s “focus the necro.”
I’m not asking for a full bar of life force from start. But even just 25% at start would be amazing and give us a better chance to survive at start of match, when 3-4 people decide to all port/leap at you and bomb the ever-loving crap out of you because as a necro, you have no blocks, no invulns, no weapon-skill evades, no nothing, and you literally have to pop everything you have and all your dodges just to stay alive long enough to get your life force up. Usually by the time you have your life force up enough to barely pop into shroud form, your health bar is at like 15%, and you know as soon as your little bit of life force gets obliterated, you’re going to die.
So please, let us necros start matches with at least 25% life force. Please.
Staff auto attack gives 3% life force per hit. Your marks give between 10-15% life force per target hit. One Mark of Blood dropped in the initial team fight should give you just under half your life force (10% x 4 players), and with staff AA hitting every 3/4 second it should take you less than 20 seconds doing nothing other than AA and dropping marks to be at full force. And then of course every attack and ability while in Shroud generates life force, so as long as you don’t jump into a 1v3+ you should be able to generate it faster than you’re losing it.
Reaper Shroud is such a strong ability I don’t think it’s fair to be able to charge right into the melee swinging your scythe around right off the bat, and it’s not an ability designed to have >50% uptime (even though a skillfully played necro can manage >80% uptime even in a losing match with bad teammates and a skillfully played necro with good teammates is approaching 95% uptime).
*edit for addition
If you have 3+ people porting/leaping at you right off the bat, that’s a L2P issue on your part. Don’t go charging headlong into a teamfight’s melee range, you’re a ranged class with either invisible or hard to see projectiles and every map has a ton of terrain you can work around. Between your multiple fears, cripples, and chills and Signet of the Locust, very few classes (IE, thief/guard/druid) should be able to reliably close with you unless you let them.
If focus on you. CC spamming will make you can’t spell anything (I don’t know why nec still need to SPELL EVERYthing in this crazy SPAMM HoT). Use Spectral Armor and pray your teammate to SAVE you or die. Reaper not reap adversary. He reap teammate at any time…lol
(edited by xeonage.1253)
Nec like Ele. No/less block No/less Invincible. So they are first focus and easy get +5.
Arr… 2sec/3sec block/inv/heal cycle = how many hp?
ele and nec have’t this cycle.
I don’t want they give Nec Block or Inv. PLs balance the game. Block and Inv should be a chance not a spamming cycle…
So the problem is not how many hp/life force do you have. Give you 50000hp when begin you still die like a PVE npc.
(edited by xeonage.1253)
Staff auto attack gives 3% life force per hit. Your marks give between 10-15% life force per target hit. One Mark of Blood dropped in the initial team fight should give you just under half your life force (10% x 4 players), and with staff AA hitting every 3/4 second it should take you less than 20 seconds doing nothing other than AA and dropping marks to be at full force. And then of course every attack and ability while in Shroud generates life force, so as long as you don’t jump into a 1v3+ you should be able to generate it faster than you’re losing it.
What game version are you running and where can I find it?
Whoops I actually screwed that up a little. But anyway,
—http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Signet_Chillomancer
“all your marks are unblockable and build life force” through Soul Reaping specialization Soul Marks, 3% per trigger
Necrotic Grasp generates 4% life force per hit and is your staff AA, can hit up to 5 targets for 22% of your life force in one attack (if you’re specced in Gluttony, otherwise 20%)
Feast of Corruption (scepter 3) generates 8% plus 1% per condi on the target up to 5%
Staff 1 strikes every 0.788 seconds with no haste according to the wiki.When I get back from work I could post a video of my baby necro going from 0% life force to full in about 18 seconds, but that is admittedly on the target golems that don’t fight back. I do think it fair to say that in a team fight where you can hit multiple foes going 0-full in 20 seconds is doable frequently.
This is just plain ridiculous. 0-100% in 18 seconds. any dps class can kill you well within that time. You also said if 3+ people are porting to you at the same time that is a l2p issue. What are you talking about? you cant prevent 3 people from porting to you even if you are staying behind. You really should play more pvp before writing paragraphs about it
If you have 3+ people focusing you within the first 10 seconds of a fight you were the first or only person from your team to get there at all play levels. end of story. It is a L2P issue. Don’t go charging headfirst into melee range in a team fight with no shroud, hang back and use the terrain and you won’t get focused because you won’t be on the point. Yes you won’t be building life force as fast as if you went all out spamming everything that builds life force into the thickest group of enemies you could find, but guess what? You’re not getting focused which means you have a significant amount of LF before you ever get attacked.
Actually this is not true you either don’t contribute at the fight or you are the target simple as that. First rule in a match is focus necro. Also shroud will not help against a true focus.
EverythingOP
If you have 3+ people focusing you within the first 10 seconds of a fight you were the first or only person from your team to get there at all play levels. end of story. It is a L2P issue. Don’t go charging headfirst into melee range in a team fight with no shroud, hang back and use the terrain and you won’t get focused because you won’t be on the point. Yes you won’t be building life force as fast as if you went all out spamming everything that builds life force into the thickest group of enemies you could find, but guess what? You’re not getting focused which means you have a significant amount of LF before you ever get attacked.
And that 0-100% is single target. Yes, it may be luck to hit 3+ people with staff AA in an actual match, but you’re hitting 2 people at least half the time due to the relatively long range of the attack and the relatively small points.
I Always wait to others to go in the point, taking the longer way to go there or simply stand back my teammates. But in the exact moment any revenant or guardian of the enemy team see you, you’re dead in seconds. Expecially at the start of a match, if a dps class see you there’s nothing you can do to save yourself, still if it’s only one.
Then, in every team fights when the match start, and you know that there’s a necro on the enemy team, you will always read “focus necro first”, and who see the necro first always put a Target on his head, if he is already there or come after some seconds is not important, it’s still really easy to take down. No matter if you’re already fighting someonelse, you change your target, fast kill the encro and then turn back to your previous target.
A necromancer is an attrition class and is a pain if you let him live and a free kill if you chose to kill him. He can still use all his LF and his heal to try to survive, but more HP don’t grant all that survavibility everyone say. A target that don’t block/invul/evade is subsceptible to every CC and conditions, every burst skill and unable to flee. If you do a focus on a necromancer, he’s hard to kill as a Target Golem.
Also, if you are a necro and stay away from the fight, hide half of the time, try to make the enemy don’t see you while you build LF (really slowly with that gameplay)… your team will play in 4vs5, losing at 100%…just waiting for you building up your LF…
The best way to fight (frequently) is try to charge the bigger amount of LF before focused and then fight as you can, trying to don’t use your Shroud until it’s at 70% or more, or don’t using it at all if you’re focused, simply why you will only waste all your work to survive 2 seconds more. Then, the next fight, if you’re full of LF you’re able to fight more or less at the same level of the other classes, making your presence finally useful for your team.
Now that i think about it, i do think necro sustain should be buffed but maybe doing it through shroud is not a good idea. It’s not conducent to good play to have a class rely on one utility to live, like a trapper guard spamming traps on point.
Instead maybe other utilities necros already have access to should be looked into to keep it from relying on scrappers.
I know there’s a trait that heals you from condi damage. Maybe make that work through shroud? Maybe increase the the % of healing when outside of shroud? Perhaps let shroud have access to shouts and shouts heal hps throug shroud? How about having necros siphon life from nearby enemies making them more sustainable when focused?
I agree with the above people. Whenever I play necro, I always get focused. I make sure I lag behind my team, seek elevated terrain and hang back with staff. Doesn’t matter. Decent enemy teams see you and are on you immediately. It’s not a simple l2p issue.
You can’t even play on a duel server as a necro.
Even though the game isn’t EXPLICITLY designed for duels, it highlights an obvious design problem if a certain profession is virtually extinct on those type servers.
No matter what traits, runes, sigils, etc…there is virtually nothing that prevents Necros from being the focus target…there is no opportunity to do duels…no build that is a viable bunker…no build that is better than any other profession other than boon corruption.
It’s clearly weaker than almost any other profession if you play solo. In an organized group, you can make it work with peels, rezzes, and covering other things that are weak.
Playing it solo makes it much harder than any other profession with same skill.
Can we trade shroud for a block, an invuln, a weapon or skill evade and a decent heal? Shroud is supposed to be this crazy powerful class mechanic. What can we get in trade?
At this point the shroud is an interesting mechanic that really defines necro. It is also a ball and chain though. The elite specs are all about op blocks, op heals, op dmg, op dmg reduction, op evades. Except necro. Necro got shroud again.
Then they had to nerf the stab.
I wouldn’t play necro this season because it’s so weak. It’s already been said, but.. Almost every other class is now extremely effective at both damage output and damage mitigation / heavy healing. Necro can’t compete. Situationally they can be very good, but overall you’re better off with almost any other class.
I don’t think LF is the issue or the cure.
(edited by kin korn karn.9023)
+1, or return our old rise.
At this point would like to mention that the necro shroud mechanic is also the only thing in the game (atleast to me knowledge) that prevents all healing, apart the healing from necro siphons aka traits, something necros had to wait fror a long time.
Maybe now is a good time to change this. Maybe just start with the regeneration boon and see how it works.
When will people learn Anet doesn’t like necromancers lol
They honestly don’t care about necromancers. They try to pretend they do, but they don’t.
Burn guards were pretty good not too long ago (and still are) but the instant guards became a more mediocre class Anet tightened their kitten cheeks and buffed them.
The Necromancer community is the least catered to playerbase. Necros can discuss and attempt to suggest some changes for years and Anet won’t listen. It is what it is. The most underdog class I’ve ever played in any game ever.
Think about this: Why does Moa kill all of necros minions but not engi’s turrents? That just shows you right there.
is it January 2105 because thats the last time i heard of burn guardians and turret engys being useful.
Seriously going to look threw these threads to find the last time someone complained about either.
Ohhh and also giving players like Nos and Kaypud life force to start a match says which class will be OP as a mofo when facing them.
Yeah so that means anything anyone hasn’t complained about isn’t viable. Your logic is sound. only it isnt. Nobody complains about Minions… so I guess that makes them just as useless.
Ohhh and balancing the entire class on account of two players has to be the silliest thing I’ve actually every heard. Not to mention 2 people I’ve never even heard of. Gw2 “pro’s” come and go. Just because some guy spends every day of his early 20’s trying to “get gud” at a class doesn’t mean we should be basing balance off their performance.
Its called balance. What you don’t seem to understand about necros (and I extend the lack of knowledge to Anet themselves) is that necromancers need to build up their power budged while all the other classes do not. Necromancers have to build up LF just to be on par with the strengths of all the other classes. Not to be stronger. Not to live longer, but to try and achieve a semblance of usefulness already afforded everyone else.
Guardians don’t have to work to get all the blocks and invuln. They just start with it. They just have to wait for the cooldown.
Lets also not forget
Blocks, invuln, evades etc, are ALWAYS going to be stronger than straight up life. Necromancers have a lot of life but they’re also rag dolls and have to take just about every bit of condition that comes their way. They get blinded, cc’d, dazed, confused, and everything else. When you block, you block. Nothing happens to you. Whats more, is while you block or evade or are invuln, you can heal. You cant heal in DS.
But just like Anet devs, you don’t care. It doesn’t matter to you because you don’t play necromancers.
You wrote “its called balance” and guess what if the elite necros make it work and destroy in 1 vs 1 already. Then to top it off that they are already beating the the DH you are using as a example then it cant be balanced at high level play.
Also i know this is hard but PvP is a 5 vs 5 game and i can argue that necros having unblockable marks and 2 health bars isnt fair. The condi spam from reaper form isnt fair combo with the damage its just not right.(thats what you just did)
Also the minion comment is what? No one complains about minions because it can be countered, if you dont counter it MM can be very strong in 1 vs 1 and team fights with life force. No one cares about burn guardians because its pretty easy to remove 1 condi when we have a meta where every class is spamming 3-4 condi in 1 attack.
No one cares about turrets because they are useless and the idea that you can compare a low-mid level excepted build such as MM necro to a non-existent turret engy is not a arguing point.
You are literally bringing up things that dont bother anyone in this game since before HOT. When we had a season (2) where necros were the apex and they didnt have LF to start a match. Heck even before HOT a certain player made necro vaible competing with it and virtually winning all his 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2.
People will not agree with you and they shouldnt because simply adjusting some skills/traits/cd on weapons necro can have a huge role in PvP. Adding lifeforce to the class just means they now have to balance around the fact they get Life force to start a match.
Do not forget about Scrapper’s pre-game buffing, detonating two gyros, which is meta, will give the Necro(s) 11% x2 = 22% Life Force alone.
Do not forget about Scrapper’s pre-game buffing, detonating two gyros, which is meta, will give the Necro(s) 11% x2 = 22% Life Force alone.
Good point, but you’re actually supporting the topic of the thread.
If the necro is balanced with zero life force at the beginning of a match, then your “exploit” is OP and should be removed. If a necro isn’t balanced unless they have 22% LF at the start of the match, then every necro team needs to have Scrapper who does this for them.
Let’s cut to the chase….The real question is what theory is Anet using to balance necros. Are they assuming Necros are balanced only with a coordinated team that can peel, rez and give life force pre-match to help them survive the initial focus zerg? Or…are they saying a necro with all that help is OP?
Are necros balanced playing solo que or must they only group to be balanced?
It seems some of you are forgetting a detail about your answer on how to “easily acquire” life force
Many of you spoke about the staff or using mark, so what about those who DON’T use any of those ?
I have been playing Necromanver since the very beginning of GW2, I never went to another profession ( true I had to create others only for the daily, but oh well )
And I tell you I only use Axe and Focus, those are the only weapons I was actually good to master, and why ?
Using a staff would need to actually hit the marks on the right place, and someone who kinda succumbs to pure killing madness on a fight doesn’t have full capacity to think
And the Great sword, I really loved it, but I also really sucked with it, the fact the basic hit is so SLOW, and I have to keep running to my target, and by the tame I reach him, he is ready to kick me ( due to me being worn out )
Ironically, the moment I rise my scythe, everything around me is dead, since I’m focused in pure critical damage ( Valkyrie Amulet ) with Death Perception + Decimate Defenses ( with a traits that give my scythe attack vulnerability with each hit plus another trait that keeps applying vulnerability to everything around me while I’m in reaper form )
So you see, all my core power is focused on Reaper Form, now more than ever that I changed from Minions to Shouts
The fact many said " focus the necro " right at the beginning do the match, I’m only able to catch up with my team either after dying like 2 times while charging Life Force Pool to maximum or if I’m lucky enough to be present and survive a team fight ( all the near deaths fill me up )
And all this because we necros begin with 0%
Although I keep spamming “Your Soul is Mine” to help, its bad when a Thief’s or a Revenants shows up and I can’t use neither my heal or my mechanic
As many said, beginning a match with 25% is already enough, it means we can actuality use all our power if we caught on a bad situation, let it be fighting a thief head on or trying to survive a gank until our team shows up to aid us
(edited by Darkness.8421)
Stop crying about necro omfg…they’re broken OP condi spammers , just give them slight support and all you’ll see is mark spam+death nova on the point= brainless class
Why don’t you play necro if you think they are broken and OP. Most people play whats broken and OP. Necro is far away from that. How can you call a class broken and OP that can’t survive a fight/run away from fight without team support?
Why don’t you play necro if you think they are broken and OP. Most people play whats broken and OP. Necro is far away from that. How can you call a class broken and OP that can’t survive a fight/run away from fight without team support?
Given the amount of builds that are kept out of pvp because of thieves and necros…I feel like no pity for the class, the amount of condi clear and dmg reduction you need in order to survive is simply staggering for a MMO.
Stop crying about necro omfg…they’re broken OP condi spammers , just give them slight support and all you’ll see is mark spam+death nova on the point= brainless class
You surely didnt read what I said at all
What good is to know that Necros are “OP” condition spammers if I DON’T use conditions at all ?
You renegade a entire class only because of a pathway ? According to you, since Condition Necromancer is Overpowered, then its perfectly fine for all other type ( Minion Master, Blood and Reaper form ) to be Underpowered ? If so, then what do you say to those type of Necromancers ?
Necro got killed in 2-3sec in 1v1 league but people on this forum say random stuff how can a focused necro die in 2-3sec on conquest? Because its die even in 1v1 in 2-3 sec lol. So i dont know what kind of game those guys play.
Guardian and Warrior faceroll this game hard. I know game not balanced for 1v1’s but come on my favourite class dying to anyone half decent in 2-3sec because the burst damage rotation is impossible to survive? And also if a class bad in 1v1 its bad for 5v5 too because if its bad in 1v1 it means its the worst to survive 5v5. Dead dps = doing 0 dps = bad dps. People on tourney’s only take it for boon corrupt bot other than that its a useless class. Its a joke and really need to look at. This game will become my second game and i will keep eye on classes and when i feel its more balanced i will spend more time on it again. The game has potential but i think the balance atm is one of the worse ive ever played. Some peoples and also sometimes me don’t even have chance to fight back the burst rotation of some classes is that bad. It’s either people eat you alive in 3sec or avoid all your damage and kill you that way.
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
Necro got killed in 2-3sec in 1v1 league but people on this forum say random stuff how can a focused necro die in 2-3sec on conquest? Because its die even in 1v1 in 2-3 sec lol. So i dont know what kind of game those guys play.
Guardian and Warrior faceroll this game hard. I know game not balanced for 1v1’s but come on my favourite class dying to anyone half decent in 2-3sec because the burst damage rotation is impossible to survive? And also if a class bad in 1v1 its bad for 5v5 too because if its bad in 1v1 it means its the worst to survive 5v5. Dead dps = doing 0 dps = bad dps. People on tourney’s only take it for boon corrupt bot other than that its a useless class. Its a joke and really need to look at. This game will become my second game and i will keep eye on classes and when i feel its more balanced i will spend more time on it again. The game has potential but i think the balance atm is one of the worse ive ever played. Some peoples and also sometimes me don’t even have chance to fight back the burst rotation of some classes is that bad. It’s either people eat you alive in 3sec or avoid all your damage and kill you that way.
Omg they brought this thread back and your complaining about its roll in 5 vs 5.
Guess what every successful team in the ESL is running necro, how can it be bad in 5 vs 5?
The other guy is simply crying because he wants to use other builds and maybe not want to use staff. Well crap i play ele and warrior alot and i would like to not use stances and shouts……. oh wait i have to to play competitively.
Im all for people asking for better build diversity, maybe a necro build thats better for 1 vs 1 which would have selfish attacks. Then a team fighting DPS glass build like in the ESL league.
Yeah sure thats fine but you wrote that necro sucks in 1 vs 1 so its broken, other person is writing random stuff about marks and skills.
Yet the fact still remains that necro is one of the top 5 classes in the game and used by the top 4 teams in the game. AA, TCG,55, Verm
Guess what every class is having issues right now, asking for life force doesnt fix anything.
Yes but they run necro only for boon corrupt other than that i think its almost useless or well necro need a very coordinated support team to be able to do something useful. But we are not playing in top teams. right?
Im talking about uncoordinated pug gaming + facing class stacking. so whats with us solo players? Because its another story. Uncoordinated randoms running around, doing a lot of mistakes, dont care about you, let you die, let you get ganked a lot of pugs can’t play in team with necro and then necro suffer + also have to read sometimes some noname on chat blame you that you can’t survive ganker groups on your own.
Some matches enemy hard focusing you so you don’t survive for long got 800k-1m inc damage at the end of match.
So i only was able to feed enemy melee classes.
My team didn’t have pressure and enemy team had full pressure on me so i just drop like a pve mob for 10mins.
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
Yes but they run necro only for boon corrupt other than that i think its almost useless or well necro need a very coordinated support team to be able to do something useful. But we are not playing in top teams. right?
Im talking about uncoordinated pug gaming + facing class stacking. so whats with us solo players? Because its another story. Uncoordinated randoms running around, doing a lot of mistakes, dont care about you, let you die, let you get ganked a lot of pugs can’t play in team with necro and then necro suffer + also have to read sometimes some noname on chat blame you that you can’t survive ganker groups on your own.
Some matches enemy hard focusing you so you don’t survive for long got 800k-1m inc damage at the end of match.
So i only was able to feed enemy melee classes.
My team didn’t have pressure and enemy team had full pressure on me so i just drop like a pve mob for 10mins.
I can agree wit this but many classes have the same problem, i was playing ele and if i didnt have support at mid i would very quickly die as well.
Im pretty sure this is the case for every class except warrior. Simply put necro is targeted first at mid fights, if not the necro its another class and without the support people will be dying fast.
Stop crying about necro omfg…they’re broken OP condi spammers , just give them slight support and all you’ll see is mark spam+death nova on the point= brainless class
You surely didnt read what I said at all
What good is to know that Necros are “OP” condition spammers if I DON’T use conditions at all ?
You renegade a entire class only because of a pathway ? According to you, since Condition Necromancer is Overpowered, then its perfectly fine for all other type ( Minion Master, Blood and Reaper form ) to be Underpowered ? If so, then what do you say to those type of Necromancers ?
i dont agree with the guy your replying to but in regards to you saying “if i dont play the meta why shouldnt i be competitive?” every class majority of the builds are not competitive. thats entirely your choice to run it. dont expect to be amazing though
im bad at sarcasm
Why the top 4 team play with a necro? Simply why they can’t stack classes, than they will highly prefer a revenant mallyx to strip away boons AoE with Movement skills and is also directly a Unblockable skill, barely spammable.
Also not all the tournament teams played a necro.
A better thing to say is that every team that played with a necro also played with a engineer and all his work was ress the necro and spam some CC while the necro is on his legs (so they have to be quick).
Every necro in that kitten tournament was downed by every single opponent in lesser than 3 seconds and then ressed by a engi, just to don’t be in 4vs5 all the time.
If there was the chance to stack classes, the necro would never be seen in this last tournament.
In normal ranked situation, also in legendary, a necro is the easiest class to burst down, sometimes so fast that don’t have the time to spam his marks+signets to do his work.
Also… marks… if someone really die for necromancer marks must play without an amulet, I don’t know other ways to fear that skills… Weak damage, a condi transfer in a direct damage meta and a fear with high CD.
The necromancer is not OP, it just fill a good spot in Super Ultra Coordinated Teams that stay all the time to protect him.
If you look in almost all the teams there was an elementalist. But is the ele so strong to be in the meta? I don’t see so much of them and when I see them I’m able to kill them also with a necromancer…
BUT they fill a specific role and are a good tank/support class, making them a perfect choice for a super coordinated team.
Also warriors and guardians are super strong in this meta but barely no one used them. Why? Why in that tournament the teams look more to what a class give to the team and to it’s coordination than how much a class is strong. Also why they can’t stack classes, then they need to cover all the possible fight situations of this game.
Then, you’re telling me that the necro and the ele are OP and the warrior and the guardian are poor underpower classes?
It is a L2P issue. Don’t go charging headfirst into melee range in a team fight with no shroud
QFT.
It is more like the opposing team charges headfirst onto the necromancer no matter what range he is at.
If you face people with even half a brain and your team does not babysit you with an ele and/or engineer, you are dead.
It is a L2P issue. Don’t go charging headfirst into melee range in a team fight with no shroud
QFT.
It is more like the opposing team charges headfirst onto the necromancer no matter what range he is at.
If you face people with even half a brain and your team does not babysit you with an ele and/or engineer, you are dead.
And the enemy must go through massive aoe spam to even get close to the necro, most times their attempts will be for nothing as they’ll die before reaching their goal, by the time they manage to low necro HP…he’ll pop RS and 5-4 for massive cleave dmg+chill for days….I’m glad Anet took notice of necros in soloq, the reality is nothing like described on these forums full of exaggerations and dramas..like killing necros in 1-2s…lol
Ho and you know why we target necro?…To avoid the inc mark spamming + traps spamming on point that wipe the entire team
It is a L2P issue. Don’t go charging headfirst into melee range in a team fight with no shroud
QFT.
It is more like the opposing team charges headfirst onto the necromancer no matter what range he is at.
If you face people with even half a brain and your team does not babysit you with an ele and/or engineer, you are dead.And the enemy must go through massive aoe spam to even get close to the necro,
No, they just use a teleport.
Don’t lie please, you target necromancers because they are the easiest to shut down with cc’s and easiest to kill. Everyone with brain know that other than that all is crap talking and lies. Putting marks or even using all your skills that barely do any damage as the pvp community play and stack classes that are full of block,evade,miss,invu 100% damage mitigation, stealth, dodge + condi clear and high mobility.
(edited by Rolisteel.1375)
Don’t lie please, you target necromancers because they are the easiest to shut down with cc’s and easiest to kill. Everyone with brain know that other than that all is crap talking and lies. Putting marks or even using all your skills that do damage barely do any damage as the pvp community play and stack classes that are full of block,evade,miss,invu 100% damage mitigation, dodge and high mobility.
In which language do I need to tell ya?
Necromancer is OP as kitten, in soloq there 1% of the coordination of esl, just a bunch of clickers with not clue, takes forever to down a necro and only after several attempts by a bunch of people.
We need to get through dh traps, chronomancer wells and scrapper fields to even reach the necro who comfortably sit at kittening 1200 range spamming marks on struggling mele specs with low access to gap closer
Stop the tears kitten , go and play an ele in soloq if you’re so kitten about reaper and see how kittening fun it is, running around trying to heal your fleeing comrades with your melee range support all the while kiting for your life, dodging well/marks burst at every turn, struggling to stay alive for more than 10s as you’re getting focused/corrupted from all directions and you think that necros have it hard…yeah right, you can only stack 2 of them behind a line of dh+scrappers for easy win.
Stop talking like every match is 5 vs reaper, it takes a min of effort to faceroll on a necro from 1200 range while it takes an incredible amount of skill to reach the reaper/do enough dmg while surviving the ridiculous cleave which is common of gw2 these days
1 2