Guild Wars 2

NeXeD.3042:

Since when can an ele mist form when in moa form……

The reverse, an ele doesn’t have to worry about Moa whilst in mist form. A necro does in and out of DS.

Talonblaze.3175:

NeXeD.3042:

Since when can an ele mist form when in moa form……

The reverse, an ele doesn’t have to worry about Moa whilst in mist form. A necro does in and out of DS.

Deathshroud is not comparable to an invulnerability skill. Just imagine a power necro spamming lifeblast while being immune to say cc…

Tissitra.4153:

Deathshroud is not comparable to an invulnerability skill. Just imagine a power necro spamming lifeblast while being immune to say cc…

Foot in the Grave used to provide such an immunity till the nerf hammer, even if briefly.
Despite it not being exactly like an invulnerability, some are trying to treat as one for sake of argument.

Talonblaze.3175:

Tissitra.4153:

Deathshroud is not comparable to an invulnerability skill. Just imagine a power necro spamming lifeblast while being immune to say cc…

Foot in the Grave used to provide such an immunity till the nerf hammer, even if briefly.
Despite it not being exactly like an invulnerability, some are trying to treat as one for sake of argument.

Spamming and be able to cast one lifeblast that has a ridiculous tell and is probably the easiest player attack to dodge in the entire game Are very different.

Foot in the Grave also made life blast spam ignorable, since you are lacking 50% crit chance.

Reduce DS pool!! No matter how many threads,math,suggestions as long as it’s that large it will not happen. Prevention of healing is DS is a design issue team sustain is curse attached to it, we can’t have damage mitigation comparable to other classes as long DS can grow that big even if its situational,get rolled over in first encounter,need mad dps loss,slap of miserable sustain traits it will not happen. Healing does stall death but this a team game and we are talking siphon,parasitic contagion,regen etc. Both are linked to DS and are limited by it.

As I have said in many other threads the problem with necro is how death shroud damage mitigation works.

All other classes have access to damage mitigation mechanics that are strictly time based & reduce damage by a set %. This ensures they are just as useful fighting a dozen enemies as they are fighting one.

Necro on the other hand has life force & death shroud.
Life force is a resource that starts at zero & must be built up, this causes necro’s to be weak at the start of a fight.
Death shroud then acts like a second health bar which absorbs damage at the cost of life force (also degrades over time), it however blocks all healing the necro would receive.

This means the necromancer is incredibly powerful 1v1 if they have life force built up but they get progressively weaker for each intelligent enemy nearby because their defense is easily burst down & or crowd controlled till it’s useless.

What they need to do is change death shroud so it reduces all damage taken by a set % while active in exchange for allowing healing to pass through it.
Then rework life force generation & get rid of degeneration via damage.

After that death shroud becomes an easily balanced class mechanic.
Whats more it opens the door for them to introduce many support traits into the trait trees that are now lacking.

What if Death Shroud

• Assume a spectral form and gain new skills, turning your life force into health, and causing all healing to be reduced as if poison was present. (Or x%)

Badda bing, badda boom.

Or maybe baby steps, all ‘Siphons’ could conveniently work separately from healing effects, and affect the Necro who’s in shroud. So the trait line is less broken.

Just start off allowing siphons, regen, and parasitic bond to work. If you really think 50HP per life blast is going to throw us over the edge well…

Bhawb.7408:

Just start off allowing siphons, regen, and parasitic bond to work. If you really think 50HP per life blast is going to throw us over the edge well…

That’s with it traited. I think another thing people aren’t realizing is this really only helps builds thst trait for these things, thus giving up the damage say a typical condi or power necro has. More than anything this is a team play and leech build viability issue, hardly even affects (while solo 1v1) normal meta builds.

But yeah, as others have said. Necromancer’s need a real rehaul on Lifeforce. Reduced Life Force pool, easier build up, reduced % naturally decaying.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

As I have said in many other threads the problem with necro is how death shroud damage mitigation works.

All other classes have access to damage mitigation mechanics that are strictly time based & reduce damage by a set %. This ensures they are just as useful fighting a dozen enemies as they are fighting one.

Necro on the other hand has life force & death shroud.
Life force is a resource that starts at zero & must be built up, this causes necro’s to be weak at the start of a fight.
Death shroud then acts like a second health bar which absorbs damage at the cost of life force (also degrades over time), it however blocks all healing the necro would receive.

This means the necromancer is incredibly powerful 1v1 if they have life force built up but they get progressively weaker for each intelligent enemy nearby because their defense is easily burst down & or crowd controlled till it’s useless.

What they need to do is change death shroud so it reduces all damage taken by a set % while active in exchange for allowing healing to pass through it.
Then rework life force generation & get rid of degeneration via damage.

After that death shroud becomes an easily balanced class mechanic.
Whats more it opens the door for them to introduce many support traits into the trait trees that are now lacking.

I understand that while not publicly advertised, THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE. You take less damage in DS than you usually would (don’t remember the precise number). This is part of the reason why vitality (which increases the life force pool) is more useful to a necro than toughness.

But even so, the difference is merely that you go down in say 12 seconds instead of 10 when being focus fired. This is not a substitute for active (or proactive) defense skills.

Tissitra.4153:

I understand that while not publicly advertised, THIS IS ALREADY THE CASE. You take less damage in DS than you usually would (don’t remember the precise number). This is part of the reason why vitality (which increases the life force pool) is more useful to a necro than toughness.

Death Shroud takes 50% damage. Another reason why Spectral Armor + Death Shroud is an effective defense, since to break even with the life force gain, your attacker has to deal ~3.5k damage/second (not including death shroud degeneration).

If a nec could be healed in ds he would never die. Once you get good at nec you can stay alive at 100 hp for a kitten long time if you smart on where you come in and out of death shroud.

Dredrum.2563:

If a nec could be healed in ds he would never die. Once you get good at nec you can stay alive at 100 hp for a kitten long time if you smart on where you come in and out of death shroud.

This is why short of a complete overhaul I advocate that necro get healing in death shroud but death shroud be changed to a % based damage mitigation instead of a secondary life bar.

Dredrum.2563:

If a nec could be healed in ds he would never die. Once you get good at nec you can stay alive at 100 hp for a kitten long time if you smart on where you come in and out of death shroud.

Except this isn’t close to accurate. You survive until you are forced out of death shroud, which will happen. By natural degeneration if nothing else. Any damaging conditions on you and even if you escape your enemies (hahaha), you’re dead before you can cleanse.

I just want to add to the list of traits that simply wont see any play because it does not work while in DS.
The grandmaster trait that heals you for a small amound of the condi damage you deal. Guess what, this doesnt work in DS.
If this trait would be allowed to heal you or at the very least, instead of healing when in DS. Give you more Life Force. I would be happy!

Can we stop acting like it’s the best scenario,necro needs to be offensive to heal not swap or active a skill and boom heals. This would also comes with a reduction of DS pool wich makes necro a pve boss thus creating active gameplay.

How about a ds heal skill independent of the normal heal skill that consumes say 50% of your entire life force (not 50% of available lifeforce) and grants 2 stacks of stability. Then another ds skill that gives us mobility like something similar to Lupine’s blast but works in any direction (the move where lupi transforms and rushes you.

Sagat.3285:

Can we stop acting like it’s the best scenario,necro needs to be offensive to heal not swap or active a skill and boom heals. This would also comes with a reduction of DS pool wich makes necro a pve boss thus creating active gameplay.

Reducing the Life force pool & reworking how life force is gained could work somewhat.

However as long as death shroud absorbs damage at the cost of life force instead of reducing damage by a set % there will still be major problems in terms of balance.
Namely it will still cause the necro to be very strong 1v1 but weak in team fights.

I’ve stated my views on what it should become earlier in the thread.

One thing that could also help however is making going into or coming out of death shroud count as swapping weapon sets. That way on swap sigils could be triggered by using it.

Ragion.2831:

How about a ds heal skill independent of the normal heal skill that consumes say 50% of your entire life force (not 50% of available lifeforce) and grants 2 stacks of stability. Then another ds skill that gives us mobility like something similar to Lupine’s blast but works in any direction (the move where lupi transforms and rushes you.

Adding 5-9 skills on to death shroud could add allot of complexity to the class while solving some of it’s problems.

Necro isn’t even Meta, what’s with 2 pages of complaints? Go after Turret Engi’s or other ridiculous things. For Necro’s, how about speeding up our healing skill, “Consume Conditions”? THAT seems to be the largest problem source I have with my Necro.

DeWolfe.2174:

Necro isn’t even Meta, what’s with 2 pages of complaints? Go after Turret Engi’s or other ridiculous things. For Necro’s, how about speeding up our healing skill, “Consume Conditions”? THAT seems to be the largest problem source I have with my Necro.

I imagine in Anets mind they believed Necros wont be using the heal skill so often because of deathshroud and that death shroud is so strong that necros shouldnt be healing in the first place. Meaning the long cast time is to make sure that other classes get an opportunity to interrupt it for the chance to kill an unkillable class.

I promise you this was the mindset

I guess the other reason is because it is a 25 second cd on an all condi cleanse which i believe makes it the shortest amongst the all condi cleanse skills in the game. A title like this triggers Anets balancing logic by giving us no stability while giving us a good long cast healing. In some situations I end up having to rely on nailing a deathly swarm before healing assuming i havent been forced to use it to cleanse already.

These devs really make me laugh, they seriosuly should go into high level ranked matches for 1 full month then look at some of the classes again.

This is what happens when you try to do dynamic combat. The only way to balance combat like this is to have an almost excessive amount of play and counter play options. No be all end all skills like zerker stance that have no counter play except run (something not all classes can do) but resistance boon that can be stripped and adequate cleanses that can be used in response.

When you see an excessive amount of stealth happening you should have a counter skill for it not the only counter play for it to be run/stealth which again not all classes can do effectively. In turn those stealth users should be able to respond to that counter, even if its an evade or a teleport.

We shouldnt be having warriors and turret engies be less difficult and risky to play compared to other classes, that defeats the purpose of an MMO having multiple classes. I honestly hope Anet in time learns what it means to make dynamic combat work.

I wish Anet would tell us on where they stand with classes. I’d love to hear about their position on necros.

I would love to hear them saying necro sustain is where it should be, because then I could quit this game lawl.

Jelzouki.4128:

I wish Anet would tell us on where they stand with classes. I’d love to hear about their position on necros.

I would love to hear them saying necro sustain is where it should be, because then I could quit this game lawl.

Soon it will come, most likely 2036, I will probably be playing Lost Ark or Lineage Eternal if they don’t flock. Again this is the first time I see class designed as pve boss.

Edit: Worse than pve boss, at least they have defiance.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Sagat.3285:

Can we stop acting like it’s the best scenario,necro needs to be offensive to heal not swap or active a skill and boom heals. This would also comes with a reduction of DS pool wich makes necro a pve boss thus creating active gameplay.

Reducing the Life force pool & reworking how life force is gained could work somewhat.

However as long as death shroud absorbs damage at the cost of life force instead of reducing damage by a set % there will still be major problems in terms of balance.
Namely it will still cause the necro to be very strong 1v1 but weak in team fights.

Honestly, I don’t see how that really changes anything. Say it’s a 50% reduction. Isn’t that effectively the same as just doubled health? Which…is roughly what fully traited death shroud does?

There is no point in changing death shroud from “providing more effective health” to “providing more effective health.”

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Sagat.3285:

Can we stop acting like it’s the best scenario,necro needs to be offensive to heal not swap or active a skill and boom heals. This would also comes with a reduction of DS pool wich makes necro a pve boss thus creating active gameplay.

Reducing the Life force pool & reworking how life force is gained could work somewhat.

However as long as death shroud absorbs damage at the cost of life force instead of reducing damage by a set % there will still be major problems in terms of balance.
Namely it will still cause the necro to be very strong 1v1 but weak in team fights.

Honestly, I don’t see how that really changes anything. Say it’s a 50% reduction. Isn’t that effectively the same as just doubled health? Which…is roughly what fully traited death shroud does?

There is no point in changing death shroud from “providing more effective health” to “providing more effective health.”

The first drawback is it’s size, reduce the size but don’t affect the LF yet or not all, then you can improve the active defenses, I remember threads where suggestions were made that you consume LF to heal,heal minions,gain boons this would have been an idea than a disguised pve boss with reverse mana. How set in stone are the upcoming changes to necro with HoT, what we are doing does it matter or are they struggling to find something to add like always?