Much of the frustration comes from the design of GW2 which emphasizes team play instead of individual play. Where you need one person to do something and you do something else. As long as this “bug” remains, it’s going to be pretty frustrating.
I remember doing jade quarries etc in GW1. You could blissfully do your own thing without worrying about others on your team If you were a monk, you could RoJ the enemy node solo. Similarly with the other professions.
Deathmatch, and other modes where you can just do your own thing without having to cooperate to gain an advantage are the best ways to make PvP less frustrating IMHO. The smaller advantage we have if we cooperate, the better. Conquest is pretty heavy on team play, which in my opinion is the biggest problem.
I’m not sure what the best way is for disincentivizing team play in PvP is though…any suggestions?
So, you want to play a group-based game but not actually contribute to the group or co-ordinate with them? I don’t… what?
The troll in this OP is mighty…..
Just because we have the ability to team up doesn’t make it a team based game. The fact that we have no holy trinity, a solo q, etc tells me that GW2 is hardly marketed as a team game.
Sure, no one is stopping people from playing together. And I never said that we should. I’m just saying that having team based objectives is a bad idea that needs to be fixed.
Nothing needs to “fixed”. It IS a team based game, if it were otherwise, you would just be 1v1. You don’t need a ‘holy trinity’ for it to be team based, the absence of it doesn’t suddenly make it otherwise.
I don’t think you understand PvP.
[Zeus] Guild ~ Desolation. Not some silly muffin thing, stop stalking me Dhiania!
Nothing needs to “fixed”. It IS a team based game, if it were otherwise, you would just be 1v1. You don’t need a ‘holy trinity’ for it to be team based, the absence of it doesn’t suddenly make it otherwise.
I don’t think you understand PvP.
And the ability to team up doesn’t automatically make it a team based game either. The facility to team up is there. It’s not needed. That’s why the solo q was so well received. I gave the example of GW1 and how we didn’t need to have team based goals there. It’s hardly unreasonable to expect that GW2 have the same philosophy.
My main point was that if you make the game less focused on team play, people would enjoy it a lot more. No one likes to depend on other people for their enjoyment.
We have the same problem in dungeons. In GW1, we could happily take our heroes along and do instanced content solo. Now we have these mechanics that need someone else to help you enjoy content. It’s a problem and one which I think we should talk about no?
And the ability to team up doesn’t automatically make it a team based game either. The facility to team up is there. It’s not needed. That’s why the solo q was so well received. I gave the example of GW1 and how we didn’t need to have team based goals there. It’s hardly unreasonable to expect that GW2 have the same philosophy.
There is a reason, the reason is that Anet stated a long time ago they weren’t going back to the GW1 way of doing things.
My main point was that if you make the game less focused on team play, people would enjoy it a lot more. No one likes to depend on other people for their enjoyment.
Then buy a single player game. GW2 is clearly not for you.
[Zeus] Guild ~ Desolation. Not some silly muffin thing, stop stalking me Dhiania!
And the ability to team up doesn’t automatically make it a team based game either. The facility to team up is there. It’s not needed. That’s why the solo q was so well received. I gave the example of GW1 and how we didn’t need to have team based goals there. It’s hardly unreasonable to expect that GW2 have the same philosophy.
There is a reason, the reason is that Anet stated a long time ago they weren’t going back to the GW1 way of doing things.
My main point was that if you make the game less focused on team play, people would enjoy it a lot more. No one likes to depend on other people for their enjoyment.
Then buy a single player game. GW2 is clearly not for you.
Again, an MMO simply states that you can interact with other players. The key word is choice. There should be no content that punishes you for making another choice.
And the ability to team up doesn’t automatically make it a team based game either.
I’m not completely certain about the definition of a team based game, but I think that is what it pretty much is O.o A huge part of the PvP is the aspect of cooperation, instead of changing that maybe proposing duels of free-for-all game modes would be appropriate?
There is a reason, the reason is that Anet stated a long time ago they weren’t going back to the GW1 way of doing things.
And that’s exactly why GW2 PvP will never be even a fraction of what GW1 PvP was.
Quite, but that has no releveace to the OP crying about having to co-operate in what is a team based game and somehow thinking that it’s a bug that requires fixing.
[Zeus] Guild ~ Desolation. Not some silly muffin thing, stop stalking me Dhiania!
Again, go play a single player game, you clearly don’t understand this one.
You have a choice to roll solo in PvE and Wv3. PvP is team based, what part of this don’t you understand?
What I don’t understand is where you’re getting your sources from. What you’ve said seems to be your opinion. You appear to be elevating this to fact. I’m curious to know why.
As far as I know, GW2 is a single player game with optional team ups. Is that a troubling distinction?
There is a reason, the reason is that Anet stated a long time ago they weren’t going back to the GW1 way of doing things.
And that’s exactly why GW2 PvP will never be even a fraction of what GW1 PvP was.
Quite, but that has no releveace to the OP crying about having to co-operate in what is a team based game and somehow thinking that it’s a bug that requires fixing.
Again, there’s that blur between opinion/fact. You say it’s a team based game. Meaning that you have to team up in order to play. I disagree. And given the fact that I’ve managed to avoid teams quite successfully so far, it’s hard to give your view preference over mine isn’kitten
And this is not a zero sum game. I’m not asking for team ups to be removed. All I’m asking is for goals to be designed in such a way as to reduce the need to be cooperative.
I get where you’re coming from. I miss the heyday of GW1 PvP but it’s gone now. Anet chose Conquest for GW2 PvP which, you’re right, requires a team effort to win.
Wouldn’t a death match area “fix” this? Forgive me if I’m assuming, but it sounds like you want Random Areas back.
That Cloaked One / That Phantom Memser / That Dark One
ThatShortGuy.com
I get where you’re coming from. I miss the heyday of GW1 PvP but it’s gone now. Anet chose Conquest for GW2 PvP which, you’re right, requires a team effort to win.
Wouldn’t a death match area “fix” this? Forgive me if I’m assuming, but it sounds like you want Random Areas back.
RAs were awesome weren’t they? But don’t get me wrong. Most people seem to think that it’s one or the other. I see no reason why we can’t have both. So many times it seems that we’re presented with a false dichotomy. This or that. Have conquest or deathmatch.
Why not have both? Goodness for everyone around! And pop duels into the mix as well.
This is a video game – we can add stuff without taking away existing material!
You say it’s a team based game. Meaning that you have to team up in order to play. I disagree. And given the fact that I’ve managed to avoid teams quite successfully so far, it’s hard to give your view preference over mine isn’kitten
And this is not a zero sum game. I’m not asking for team ups to be removed. All I’m asking is for goals to be designed in such a way as to reduce the need to be cooperative.
I think you are contradicting yourself. If you feel that the goals are designed in a way that require cooperation, then that’s the same as saying that GW2 is designed as a team-based game.
It’s true that you can get through some of the content without teaming up. But it’s pretty clear that the end-game content (dungeons, fractals, WvW, PvP) in GW2 is intentionally designed to force you to team up with and rely on other players, which is completely unlike the endgame in GW1.
And I believe the developers have stated that this is their intention. They do not want to make it easier to duel, solo dungeons, etc. Probably because if they did, they would have to balance the game much differently.
You say it’s a team based game. Meaning that you have to team up in order to play. I disagree. And given the fact that I’ve managed to avoid teams quite successfully so far, it’s hard to give your view preference over mine isn’kitten
And this is not a zero sum game. I’m not asking for team ups to be removed. All I’m asking is for goals to be designed in such a way as to reduce the need to be cooperative.
I think you are contradicting yourself. If you feel that the goals are designed in a way that require cooperation, then that’s the same as saying that GW2 is designed as a team-based game.
It’s true that you can get through some of the content without teaming up. But it’s pretty clear that the end-game content (dungeons, fractals, WvW, PvP) in GW2 is intentionally designed to force you to team up with and rely on other players, which is completely unlike the endgame in GW1.
And I believe the developers have stated that this is their intention. They do not want to make it easier to duel, solo dungeons, etc. Probably because if they did, they would have to balance the game much differently.
I think we can require teams and still not make it team based. For example, the CoE dungeon requires a team since you can’t press all levers by yourself at the same time. I think that’s the problem. Not that the content is too tough to do on your own per se.
As far as PvP goes, I don’t see why we can’t have teams that don’t require coordination. Conquest is particularly at fault here since you need a person keeping an eye on close, etc.
Whereas we can just as easily also have modes where you’re in a team, but it doesn’t require team work. Do you get where I’m coming from?
On the contrary, Gw1 was much more of a team game. But, as your example suggests, there were game modes in Gw1 that required less teamwork (or dependence/cooperation) than others. Bringing more game modes to Gw2 might help address this, but I think Gw2 is really crippled by fundamental problems with the game mechanics and design in PvP and general combat.
I get where you’re coming from. I miss the heyday of GW1 PvP but it’s gone now. Anet chose Conquest for GW2 PvP which, you’re right, requires a team effort to win.
Wouldn’t a death match area “fix” this? Forgive me if I’m assuming, but it sounds like you want Random Areas back.
RAs were awesome weren’t they? But don’t get me wrong. Most people seem to think that it’s one or the other. I see no reason why we can’t have both. So many times it seems that we’re presented with a false dichotomy. This or that. Have conquest or deathmatch.
Why not have both? Goodness for everyone around! And pop duels into the mix as well.
This is a video game – we can add stuff without taking away existing material!
We do have Courtyard for death match but I don’t think we see enough of it to judge how well the community likes it.
I do see a running theme with death match suggestions: balance. Anet cannot balance skills and traits to both Conquest and death match. Conquest is the game mode Anet wants to promote for professional matches. This means death match will have super-hard-to-kill builds meant to bunker Conquest nodes.
Maybe Courtyard should appear in Hot Join servers more so we can judge.
That Cloaked One / That Phantom Memser / That Dark One
ThatShortGuy.com
I get where you’re coming from. I miss the heyday of GW1 PvP but it’s gone now. Anet chose Conquest for GW2 PvP which, you’re right, requires a team effort to win.
Wouldn’t a death match area “fix” this? Forgive me if I’m assuming, but it sounds like you want Random Areas back.
RAs were awesome weren’t they? But don’t get me wrong. Most people seem to think that it’s one or the other. I see no reason why we can’t have both. So many times it seems that we’re presented with a false dichotomy. This or that. Have conquest or deathmatch.
Why not have both? Goodness for everyone around! And pop duels into the mix as well.
This is a video game – we can add stuff without taking away existing material!
We do have Courtyard for death match but I don’t think we see enough of it to judge how well the community likes it.
I do see a running theme with death match suggestions: balance. Anet cannot balance skills and traits to both Conquest and death match. Conquest is the game mode Anet wants to promote for professional matches. This means death match will have super-hard-to-kill builds meant to bunker Conquest nodes.
Maybe Courtyard should appear in Hot Join servers more so we can judge.
Courtyard might indeed be fun. But since there are no rewards, I haven’t stepped foot into it yet…
I’m not sure if I get you wrong, but are u trying to tell me that formats like jade quarry and RA weren’t team based? I mean ya you didn’t have to build up a team, you were just given one but u totally had to rely on them. Sure you could solo a spot in JQ but if your team failed you lost anyway?? Just hop into yoloq and push far 24/7 having your 1v1, same experience imho. As far as PvE goes: There are guys running Arah solo, gl with it
I very rarely agree with bhagwad.4281. As a matter of fact, I think I’ve only agreed with him once, and it involved the removal of the double loading screen when logging back into a PvP match after a disconnect.
This is also one of his many opinions I strongly disagree with.
They tried solo pvp in GW1 with hero battles, didn’t seem too popular and ended up getting ditched. I can’t think of any mmos where there has been solo based pvp gamemode and it has been remotely sucessful. Better off just playing Hearthstone or something like that if you’re so allergic to teamplay.
Also if you want to pvp on your own in GW2, there is always WvW roaming.
Even Jade Quarry had aspects of team play. If you didn’t have anyone buffing the juggernaut or buffing the siege turtle (move speed increases) then you were at a disadvantage. However, too many supporters wouldn’t work out because you needed people to cap the nodes. Consequently, too many node cappers could get killed pretty easy by just a few sins or condi rangers. Same thing in guild wars 2. Too much DPS is bad, too much bunker is bad (its better than the latter because it provides more room for error but the overlap it still bad).
I think jade quarry and fort aspenwood would be comparable to solo queue because in both of these team coordination is not a necessity but too much overlap is a bad thing. This same thing can be applied to random arena.
I don’t think team play should EVER be “disincentivized”. If you want to “do your own thing” do hot join.
Blitz
“Rush to the point and be the first to stake your claim by raising the flag (or laundry). Only one point of active at a time and, as a result, Carnage Reigns.”
Death Snatch
“Teams kill opposing teams and take their Blutonium Vials to score points. Recover your team’s Blutonium Vials to deny the opposing team from scoring. BOOM, HEADSHOT! "
Extraction
“In Extraction, each team’s designated “collector” gathers Blutonium deposits and rushes them to one of the grinders spread across the map. The first team to collect their fill of Blutonium wins. But be careful collectors! Blutonium is extremely volatile and will explode when shot … or thrown, "
Jackhammer
“Shut down the enemy’s drill by capturing their hammer-shaped batter and returning it to your drill base. The hammer is a powerful melee weapon, henceforth a player wielding the hammer can score huge points by racking up kills with it before depositing it at your teams base. "
Domination
“Capture three spread out control points simultaneously to win the game. Points can be captured from a netural state and recaptured from the enemy team. Holding two points for most of the game will ensure victory.”
why would you WANT to decrease teamwork? thats making the game more shallow and braindead. People play MMOs for the interaction, this is not Skyrim or some RPG
why would you WANT to decrease teamwork? thats making the game more shallow and braindead. People play MMOs for the interaction, this is not Skyrim or some RPG
This must be a troll thread.
I agree that people play MMOs for the interaction. However, the type of interaction is not set. For example, even in Solo q, there is a lot of interaction. PvP is by definition an interactive game mode. Interacting with people doesn’t necessarily mean you have to work in a team does it?
Getting better rewards and showing off to others is also a form of interaction. The reason I don’t play Skyrim for example is that (as far as I know), there’s no way to demonstrate your progress to others. It’s like a black box where it’s just you and no scope for showing off to anyone else.
You can always play thief and just keep pushing far point. You will not cooperate with your team at all. Problem solved!
Agreed. I like “solo” type professions (though for some reason I never liked the thief). Right now I switch between close bunker as a necro with some help at mid and a pure decap engi.
For example, I’ve tried playing a bunker guardian but that depends heavily on team support. If you’re alone and no one comes to help you, you’re pretty useless. That’s one of the reasons why I think conquest is flawed with its focus on teamwork.
You can always play thief and just keep pushing far point. You will not cooperate with your team at all. Problem solved!
Agreed. I like “solo” type professions (though for some reason I never liked the thief). Right now I switch between close bunker as a necro with some help at mid and a pure decap engi.
For example, I’ve tried playing a bunker guardian but that depends heavily on team support. If you’re alone and no one comes to help you, you’re pretty useless. That’s one of the reasons why I think conquest is flawed with its focus on teamwork.
GW2 does “solo artist” way, way better than any other MMO right now. Let’s count some fun “solo artist” builds:
Because there’s no trinity, any profession can put together a really fun and effective solo artist build that works great in solo queue or % team queues. Guardian might be the only exception, which is probably okay, as they are kind of defined as the “party leader” type profession.
That said, I do understand your point—GW2 is very difficult to play well. Conquest is probably not part of that; it’s simple enough to understand, although it does leave room for strategy, rotation, etc. 3v3 annihilation would have way more reliance on teammates than conquest.
