Guild Wars 2

Please can we have some nerf of this sh*t? Currently almost all builds are condi builds. Expecially mindblowing reaper and condi warrior. Just wth happened to this game? No power builds, no prec builds just condi condi condi aaaaaand… condi ;/

frankly direct response to absurd amount of protection/blocks/dmg redux traits that were introduced with HoT – condis go through all of it

condis also require 1 stats and often are applied by AA, aoe, passives
some of them can’t be even dodged

Also condi thief pure aids in 1v1.

Welcome to Condi War 2

If most class have achieved balance with condi builds it mean Anet kinda succeeded in balancing that side of the game. Next step is kinda easy. Bring power build up to that level.

yanoch.7051:

If most class have achieved balance with condi builds it mean Anet kinda succeeded in balancing that side of the game. Next step is kinda easy. Bring power build up to that level.

I have a meme for this, but I guess i’ll be infracted if I put it on.
You do not seem to understand the very basics of the problem this game is suffering from.

yanoch.7051:

If most class have achieved balance with condi builds it mean Anet kinda succeeded in balancing that side of the game. Next step is kinda easy. Bring power build up to that level.

yeaaahhh let’s embrace powercreep

Cynz.9437:

condis also require 1 stats and often are applied by AA

Kinda not true in the case of Reaper. If you run Curses you more or less need Wanderer’s for the condi duration and precision for Barbed Precision proccs. And the majority of your condis will still come from corrupts and transfers since no team that isn’t utterly horrible will let you sit and freely spam scepter 1 long enough for it to stack up any significant damage.

If you run Spite you’re using Carrion and you’re relying on Might to boost both your power and condi damage your to 2650 Power/1950 Condi at which point its basically a hybrid build.

HOT is a complete failure patch. Make gw2 go to dead.

Aktium.9506:

Cynz.9437:

condis also require 1 stats and often are applied by AA

Kinda not true in the case of Reaper. If you run Curses you more or less need Wanderer’s for the condi duration and precision for Barbed Precision proccs. And the majority of your condis will still come from corrupts and transfers since no team that isn’t utterly horrible will let you sit and freely spam scepter 1 long enough for it to stack up any significant damage.

If you run Spite you’re using Carrion and you’re relying on Might to boost both your power and condi damage your to 2650 Power/1950 Condi at which point its basically a hybrid build.

you would be surprised how many people i killed by spamming scepter AA and occasional heal

Cynz.9437:

Aktium.9506:

Cynz.9437:

condis also require 1 stats and often are applied by AA

Kinda not true in the case of Reaper. If you run Curses you more or less need Wanderer’s for the condi duration and precision for Barbed Precision proccs. And the majority of your condis will still come from corrupts and transfers since no team that isn’t utterly horrible will let you sit and freely spam scepter 1 long enough for it to stack up any significant damage.

If you run Spite you’re using Carrion and you’re relying on Might to boost both your power and condi damage your to 2650 Power/1950 Condi at which point its basically a hybrid build.

you would be surprised how many people i killed by spamming scepter AA and occasional heal

Use one key and dodge. kill everyone. SKILL!? Just a joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVO1okVpj2Q

Cynz.9437:

frankly direct response to absurd amount of protection/blocks/dmg redux traits that were introduced with HoT

Try and work out why most classes need those things for example to even consider playing marauder amulet, let alone zerker, for 3 years one class had broken faceroll OP mechanics that made it very difficult for anyone else to go glassy (even the one other class that went glassy for any amount of time, basically had to be babysat by the alluded to class), then they added another class like that with HoT, maybe if they ever redesigned those two classes to be less faceroll as glassy builds then we could lose some of the protection, blocks, passives, etc on other classes, until then…

Cynz.9437:

you would be surprised how many people i killed by spamming scepter AA and occasional heal

Nah I wouldn’t. I’m pretty well aware of the fact the majority of players are of course terrible at the game. But you can’t base statements of balance on the experience of the bottom of the barrel-tier majority of players. I mean come on, most of the inter-class complaints would disappear if those same players just bothered to play more than one or two classes to learn how to counter whatever they’re having problems with.

Actually the balance between condi and power builds in the metagame is pretty balanced right now.
So no. Not most builds are condi.

Druid, hybrid with power focus.
Engi power.
Rev power.
Ele power only damage stat.
Warrior condi.
Mesmer condi.
Necro condi.
Thief power.

Guard power although bot meta.

Totally a condi meta. Totally.

Novuake.2691:

Actually the balance between condi and power builds in the metagame is pretty balanced right now.
So no. Not most builds are condi.

Druid, hybrid with power focus.
Engi power.
Rev power.
Ele power only damage stat.
Warrior condi.
Mesmer condi.
Necro condi.
Thief power.

Guard power although bot meta.

Totally a condi meta. Totally.

And how many times you encounter condi warrior, mesmer and necro? At last 3 of em every single match… So yeah, totally condi meta. Ppl just play what is easiest and I can’t blame them, since they are unskilled, yet anet should balance the game. Condi were useless before reistance, cos had lower dmg, longer inter between hits. Now, since HoT it is pvp’s plague. Every match is with necro and almost every game have 3 condi sh**s

I don’t care much for most conditions, but confusion and torment needs a nerf.

The problem is, some classes just never die to physical dmg, so condi is the only way to kill them, otherwise they just run around god-moding.

The problem isn’t really condi, it’s the fact that Anet keeps taking away more forms of cleanses and adding more forms on application. The balance is off.

Not to mention you need ONE stat for condition, and protection doesnt do anything against it.

Conditiondamage simply doesnt serve its purpose.
By the usual definiton it is supposed to be DoT. Hard to avoid, hard to remove but takes a long time to kill anything.
The proper counter to proper conditionbuilds would be to kill them before they can kill you.
In theory it should look something like
bunker>power>codition>bunker
But since they made the odd decision to allow condition bursts and at the same time give bunkers a high amount of cleanses, condition damage is now used against offensive power builds.
All the problems are connected to each other. You have to rework conditions to be Dot (much lower damage and application, but much higher duration and less reliable cleanses), power to be burst(scrapper hammer or thief AA are a good example of power gone wrong), and bunkers to not be healers(Ive explained that one more extensively before)

well condi dmg originally came from gw1 conditional dmg. In other words you took dmg IF you did certain actions with a debuff on you. Like how confusion used to work… Now though it mine as well be direct dmg.

Mightybird.6034:

well condi dmg originally came from gw1 conditional dmg. In other words you took dmg IF you did certain actions with a debuff on you. Like how confusion used to work… Now though it mine as well be direct dmg.

This isn’t how conditions worked in GW1 at all.

Condis on gw2 work for gw1 condis + hexes, they tough it was easier to balance if they call everything the same.

they already nerfed reaper to the ground with the change to deathly chill and chill uptime wat more do want? git gud

Reknarok.7582:

they already nerfed reaper to the ground with the change to deathly chill and chill uptime wat more do want? git gud

CB, scepter… a lot of things. There is reason why 50% of pvp players play reapers atm

If I look at the actual “meta” builds and at what classes/builds i fight during my matches, I don’t really think that there’s more condi damage than direct damage builds.
There’s a large amount of conditions, a really HUGE amount of them, but frequently they’re not Damaging conditions.

The Reaper had been nerfed by a really high amount reducing chill duration and removing chill damage (now inflict 1 stack of bleed… what a pain). if Reaper still work is only why can corrupt boons, then isn’t only why his build but why there’s too much boon spammer in this game and ANet wanted to make a counte for them. Reaper isn’t OP and is strong as a common direct damage build like the revenant or others.
There’s then mesmer, condi reven and condi warrior. Sometimes a condi thief.

But power shiro (still the best reve build), power engi, power thief, bunker ele,meditrapper guardian, they still play with direct damage.

Dont’ think that all the conditions you see inflict damage to you and don’t think that if you die fast in mid is why a condition focused you.
Direct Damage is still the best to burst down someone and to inflict damage. Then tehre’s the condi, that had been made strong enough to be compared to direct damage. Now with lesser bunker amulets than before.

Direct damage need more stats but also inflict more damage, expecially more Burst damage, that is basicly what kill you in a good pvp fight.
Condition damage can still be blocked/dodged/blinded/immune, and have also a boon that make it totally uneffective. And if you clean it immediatly it don’t only inflict it’s 70% of damage like if you had protection up, it will be totally removed and reduced to 0.
Also there’s much more skills, traits, runes and sigils that clean/protect you from conditions or reduce they’re durations than for direct damage.

Silv.9207:

If I look at the actual “meta” builds and at what classes/builds i fight during my matches, I don’t really think that there’s more condi damage than direct damage builds.
There’s a large amount of conditions, a really HUGE amount of them, but frequently they’re not Damaging conditions.

The Reaper had been nerfed by a really high amount reducing chill duration and removing chill damage (now inflict 1 stack of bleed… what a pain). if Reaper still work is only why can corrupt boons, then isn’t only why his build but why there’s too much boon spammer in this game and ANet wanted to make a counte for them. Reaper isn’t OP and is strong as a common direct damage build like the revenant or others.
There’s then mesmer, condi reven and condi warrior. Sometimes a condi thief.

But power shiro (still the best reve build), power engi, power thief, bunker ele,meditrapper guardian, they still play with direct damage.

Dont’ think that all the conditions you see inflict damage to you and don’t think that if you die fast in mid is why a condition focused you.
Direct Damage is still the best to burst down someone and to inflict damage. Then tehre’s the condi, that had been made strong enough to be compared to direct damage. Now with lesser bunker amulets than before.

Direct damage need more stats but also inflict more damage, expecially more Burst damage, that is basicly what kill you in a good pvp fight.
Condition damage can still be blocked/dodged/blinded/immune, and have also a boon that make it totally uneffective. And if you clean it immediatly it don’t only inflict it’s 70% of damage like if you had protection up, it will be totally removed and reduced to 0.
Also there’s much more skills, traits, runes and sigils that clean/protect you from conditions or reduce they’re durations than for direct damage.

lol no, current meta condi war kills me faster than a thief if i don’t have stun break

Make me a viable power reaper then we will talk nerfs

Shout guard?
Mallyx Leadership runes Revenant —> spam resistance to allies and get perma resistance on yourself?

I faced two warriors 1v2 with a bunk DH and they literally did nothing to me. Not to mention I cleaned my teammates from their whole burst like it was nothing.

Actually most builds are power builds, but continue.

Don’t see why it’s so hard to just make condi behave in pvp like it did pre stacking change… literally would fix a ridiculous amount of the problems we are having with condi right now.

Pre condi stacking changes there was less healing, less cleansing, and barely any condi builds where viable. You NEED much more dmg now, to actually kill stuff. But i guess, condi builds are simply not allowed to kill stuff …

Reducing damage gives room for reducing the ridiculous amount of healing and defenses in the game. The way to combat power creep isn’t to keep building higher, it requires you to take some stuff down and while that seems counter intuitive it needs to happen.

Damage can always be buffed after but take into account there were not as many builds back then that could utilize condi effectively because the ammy choices were limited. It is a whole different selection now and that could be the difference that needed to be present to make condi viable in that state.

Dint we do a -Nerf Power Creeps- last time?

Is this a WvW thread or something?

MethaneGas.8357:

Shout guard?
Mallyx Leadership runes Revenant —> spam resistance to allies and get perma resistance on yourself?

I faced two warriors 1v2 with a bunk DH and they literally did nothing to me. Not to mention I cleaned my teammates from their whole burst like it was nothing.

You faced a 1v2 and cleaned your teammates conditions? Sounds like someone is lying.

And shout guard is pure trash that they literally die in mere seconds.

Furajir.3815:

The problem isn’t really condi, it’s the fact that Anet keeps taking away more forms of cleanses and adding more forms on application. The balance is off.

^ Sums it up well.

phokus.8934:

MethaneGas.8357:

Shout guard?
Mallyx Leadership runes Revenant —> spam resistance to allies and get perma resistance on yourself?

I faced two warriors 1v2 with a bunk DH and they literally did nothing to me. Not to mention I cleaned my teammates from their whole burst like it was nothing.

You faced a 1v2 and cleaned your teammates conditions? Sounds like someone is lying.

And shout guard is pure trash that they literally die in mere seconds.

No. I fought 2 of em 1v2 and they couldn’t kill me. Also, in the same match I cleansed my allies from their condis. That’s not that hard to put together tbh.

And no, shout guard is actually pretty decent from my experience – it just shouldn’t be taken with an ele.

MethaneGas.8357:

phokus.8934:

MethaneGas.8357:

Shout guard?
Mallyx Leadership runes Revenant —> spam resistance to allies and get perma resistance on yourself?

I faced two warriors 1v2 with a bunk DH and they literally did nothing to me. Not to mention I cleaned my teammates from their whole burst like it was nothing.

You faced a 1v2 and cleaned your teammates conditions? Sounds like someone is lying.

And shout guard is pure trash that they literally die in mere seconds.

No. I fought 2 of em 1v2 and they couldn’t kill me. Also, in the same match I cleansed my allies from their condis. That’s not that hard to put together tbh.

And no, shout guard is actually pretty decent from my experience – it just shouldn’t be taken with an ele.

This is the thing, there are options out there to take precautions against condi but people refuse to equip cleanses and act as if condi is not allowed to kill anything. These are the same people who call you a noob for equipping a weapon that isn’t listed on metabattle.com yet complain that the build they copy+pasted has a hard time against condi.

Myself I play both power and condi depending on the class, so it’s just entertaining to watch people who’ve never seen both sides of the argument and act as if they should have enough cleanses to cleanse all condis (even that is possible while still having dmg ouput if you learn to theory craft for once), it’s like I always say – it’s the equivalent of asking for enough aegis to block every single attack.

Condi would be lot better if it was balanced for CC and debuff but at cost of dps,right now I not seeing to much dps lose on running condi over pure power build….

Reknarok.7582:

they already nerfed reaper to the ground with the change to deathly chill and chill uptime wat more do want? git gud

Reapers aren’t the issue. It’s that conditions are the dominant form of damage in PvP and it’s much less exciting to face

One day of necro dailies and it start again…

When people QQ about power classes they specify what class and build is the problem.

When people QQ about condi classes they just throw all condi builds together and make sweeping generalizations.

Hmm guess what. I take 2 – 10 times more power then condi damage per match.
But yea the killing blow often comes from a condi burst (mesmer or necro) ..
I am not happy with alplying huge stacks within a second. Condi should be a thing to kill but some condi bombs come to often.

The problem is that with some skills you can apply too much different condi’s at the same time. Let a warrior land 2 skills and you got 6 different condis on ur kitten . Since most cleanses only cleanse like 2 condis, things are getting kinda out of line.

Kasteros.9847:

Please can we have some nerf of this sh*t? Currently almost all builds are condi builds. Expecially mindblowing reaper and condi warrior. Just wth happened to this game? No power builds, no prec builds just condi condi condi aaaaaand… condi ;/

problems of condis now is there are to many clases that can apply too many diferent condis in a too easy way, and cleanses are limited.
and the condi sistem is made for that a clas aply one or two and had to work to build a stack to do decent damage, diferent condi presure that we have now only can be ideally reachable whith a team of diferent condi builds, not one spaming a lot of diferent condi

Imo the real problem is that there’s no cap to “HPs degen”, like the one in GW1 (since someone else named it).

In GW1 you could apply a lot of different condis/hexes, BUT the HP degen was limited to -10 pips (i.e. -20 HPs/sec), and the rest of degen pips would just counter regen pips.

Moreover, in GW1 the cleanse priority was based on a LIFO queue, allowing for skilled application of condis/hexes (i.e. covering), while in GW2 is not.

Add these problems to the fact that they introduced too many different condis in the game and this is the result we get.

The hypocrisy in this thread is hilarious. People keep saying that PvP is plagued by condi users and then talk about how there are 3-4 in every match…

You do realize that means there are 6-7 power users in every match… based on this thread I have to conclude that there is an overwhelming power meta that needs to be nerfed.

Honestly the problem is 2 fold

1: That some specs just don’t have access to a high enough amount of cleanses & or resistance. (Others on the other hand just crap it out so often that condi specs do very little to them unless they can remove boons & CC as well)

2: Most condition builds can re apply the condition stacks in mass (Condi bomb) before many specs are anywhere near getting their cleanses off CD.

Conversely Resistance does hard counter most condition builds very well.

What I would suggest is slightly lowering the CD’s of various cleanses slightly then a change to resistance.

For resistance change the following

1: Make it reduce all condition damage by a set % and make the person immune to control effects (Weakness/cripple/blind/fear etc..)

2: After change number 1 increase access to resistance (lower CD’s and more abilities applying it) and the number of classes that can apply it.

This would mean that resistance would be more widely available to reduce condition damage but it would not hard counter it to such a degree.

I had a match today that might give the feeling.
Oposing team: 4 power builds + 1 condi mesmer.
I did go down two times in the match to the condi mesmer. In all the teamfights power damage could not bring me down. In the end i took way more power damage than condi but the two mesmer condi bomb hits killed me … One kill was with cleanses on CD knowing i will die in a few seconds. The second was a confusion bomb that full got me something like 10+ stacks … I did hit two skill as reflex before realizing what happened and exploded XD.

Please consider the following facts when complaining about conditions:

1. Some classes don’t have viable power builds.
2. Every class has the potential for great condi mitigation.
3. Are you using a meta battle build for every fight?
4. You should not use a meta battle build for every fight.

Think about it like this, if the opposing team has 3 Revenants and 2 Thieves, you are probably going to have a bad day if you enter battle with a meta Druid build.

Likewise, if you are on Revenant and the opposing team has 2 necrosis, 2 warriors, and a Mesmer, you are going to have a bad day with metabattle build.

The answer is to adjust you build at match start.