Guild Wars 2

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Agreed :-) I don´t play meta and change build on oposing team composition …
See 2 Druids and 2 DH + 1 necro? Load myself (ele) with reflects …. Might die to necro but disable the rest wining the match …. See 2 necro + 2 warr? Swap to group cleansebot and win again … Most dangerous is the mesmer and well rounded oposing teams. If a team is to one sided i counter it which happens often in solo Q. There is a longbow spam … Had such a match against 2 druids and one guard that seemd to play together well. Holy arrow hail shooting down evrything on a point from side positions … Power out of control ?

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

Teams can abuse condis if they are all running it. 2 condi builds is bearable, but having burn guards, mallyx revenants, and necros on the same team is gg.

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

2-3 on the enemy TEAM, sometimes 4. Rarely 5.
6-8 per match, sometimes upwards of 9.

The fact that condi warriors burst me harder than any power based class is completely absurd. Being bursted by CONDITIONS faster and harder than any POWER based build is not ok. Mesmers and necros can burst pretty hard too.

If I don’t have focus earth 4/5 up as ele and a warrior attacks me I’m going to do 9 times out of 10.

what are you talking about guys, condi is always lower than power! it should be buffed instead XD XD, only 3 class are condi! the others are power based!
(rofl for real i only see revenant as pure power dmg + crit, wich is totaly carried by other classes cuz it cant cleanse, the others are just bunkers and they will never burst down fast as a condi warr/necro/mesmer, but whatever condi players say so, let me do it too!!)

Change your build! take more cleanse skill/trait/rune/sigill! (so that you will have even more less offensive capacity and at best you will stall against condi, or you will eventualy run out of them and die XD XD XD)
There’s so many rune and sigill for cleanse! like ah… sigill of generosity, that will transfer one stack of vulnerability every 9 seconds if you are lucky with crits, or maybe 1 stack of burning after you got 2 seconds of burst from 6 stacks, and… well there’s no more sigill/rune to cleanse but whatever, take them!! l2p noobs! you can dodge condition! Yea sure you will dodge only to be hit immediately after by any other condi aoe proc but whatever, dodge noobs!!!
Cuz condi will never proc randomly from autoattacks and burst like the best power burst skill wich would eventualy be immediately nerfed at sight since is so clear to be spotted with his easy animation!!! Let’s nerf gunflame, wich was much more spammable than skull grinder and left warrior with much more defence than the condi build counterpart we see nowadays!!

Fun fun. Keep defending condi dmg my dear condi lovers. Cuz winning without having any skill and by beeing carried by broken game mechanics is so fun fun!!! All we want is to faceroll opponents, and condi is rewarding us in that direction!

Gw2 promatch are so fun to watch, a condi spamm fest and the first team that run out of condi cleanser wil eventualy be bursted down by condi. Such a nice esport XD XD.

Shiyo.3578:

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

2-3 on the enemy TEAM, sometimes 4. Rarely 5.
6-8 per match, sometimes upwards of 9.

The fact that condi warriors burst me harder than any power based class is completely absurd. Being bursted by CONDITIONS faster and harder than any POWER based build is not ok. Mesmers and necros can burst pretty hard too.

If I don’t have focus earth 4/5 up as ele and a warrior attacks me I’m going to do 9 times out of 10.

Why exactly?

I know games like WoW have conditions set up as slow long term damage. Is there some law that says it has to be like this? Is there any reason conditions shouldn’t be the main form of burst?

I also don’t understand why people keep saying that block/invuln/dodge doesn’t work on conditions… i’ve blocked, dodged and invulned many conditions. If you find conditions are somehow going through these effects please make sure to report them as exploiting or bugs because conditions are not applied through these effects (barring unblockable attacks and physical only invuln).

They shouldn’t be a strong as they are because condition damage doesn’t take any real skill, set up, or proper timing to use. You kinda just spam buttons. Power builds have to deal with block, invuls, dodges, etc and have to actually time their damage perfectly.

Condition is really easy to play.

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

You also need to time condition application between blocks, evades, invulns and so on.

Conditions may tick passively once applied, but are actively applied in the same way as dealing direct damage.

The only difference is in some animations – some seemingly insignificant animation might load you with half a dozen stacks of bleeding whereas you can see something like Maul as it is activating.

However some direct damage animations are also small compared to their effect and some condition applications very obvious (ie, Confusing Images).

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

Make me a viable power reaper then we will talk nerfs

But it is viable, but req skill, while condi… well.. Doesn’t even req brain xD

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Shiyo.3578:

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

2-3 on the enemy TEAM, sometimes 4. Rarely 5.
6-8 per match, sometimes upwards of 9.

The fact that condi warriors burst me harder than any power based class is completely absurd. Being bursted by CONDITIONS faster and harder than any POWER based build is not ok. Mesmers and necros can burst pretty hard too.

If I don’t have focus earth 4/5 up as ele and a warrior attacks me I’m going to do 9 times out of 10.

Why exactly?

I know games like WoW have conditions set up as slow long term damage. Is there some law that says it has to be like this? Is there any reason conditions shouldn’t be the main form of burst?

I also don’t understand why people keep saying that block/invuln/dodge doesn’t work on conditions… i’ve blocked, dodged and invulned many conditions. If you find conditions are somehow going through these effects please make sure to report them as exploiting or bugs because conditions are not applied through these effects (barring unblockable attacks and physical only invuln).

Then you should report bug, cos condis dmg you even when you dodge or block You can block/dodge attack applying it, but not a condi that is already on you. I agree with invul, but not with dodges or blocks, let’s be realists. While all those effects work against power builds, the only thing against condis are resistsance and invul. The longest invul is like 3 secs, while the longest resistance for warrior is 9 sec, unless you pick everything that gives you resistance, then it is about 30 secs, but then… you are kitten and can’t do a thing cos you lack stabillity, survi and dmg and in result you die from direct damage

Kasteros.9847:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Shiyo.3578:

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

2-3 on the enemy TEAM, sometimes 4. Rarely 5.
6-8 per match, sometimes upwards of 9.

The fact that condi warriors burst me harder than any power based class is completely absurd. Being bursted by CONDITIONS faster and harder than any POWER based build is not ok. Mesmers and necros can burst pretty hard too.

If I don’t have focus earth 4/5 up as ele and a warrior attacks me I’m going to do 9 times out of 10.

Why exactly?

I know games like WoW have conditions set up as slow long term damage. Is there some law that says it has to be like this? Is there any reason conditions shouldn’t be the main form of burst?

I also don’t understand why people keep saying that block/invuln/dodge doesn’t work on conditions… i’ve blocked, dodged and invulned many conditions. If you find conditions are somehow going through these effects please make sure to report them as exploiting or bugs because conditions are not applied through these effects (barring unblockable attacks and physical only invuln).

Then you should report bug, cos condis dmg you even when you dodge or block You can block/dodge attack applying it, but not a condi that is already on you. I agree with invul, but not with dodges or blocks, let’s be realists. While all those effects work against power builds, the only thing against condis are resistsance and invul. The longest invul is like 3 secs, while the longest resistance for warrior is 9 sec, unless you pick everything that gives you resistance, then it is about 30 secs, but then… you are kitten and can’t do a thing cos you lack stabillity, survi and dmg and in result you die from direct damage

The idea is to dodge/block/invuln big condi application in the first place rather than mitigating it after being inflicted. Cleanse is a safety net.

I will only accept that yes skill animations should be moderated so that both big condi application and big direct damage skills have suitable animations, tells, or some way of anticipating an incoming burst so as being able to prevent the direct damage or conditions from being applied.

Curunen.8729:

Kasteros.9847:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Shiyo.3578:

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

2-3 on the enemy TEAM, sometimes 4. Rarely 5.
6-8 per match, sometimes upwards of 9.

The fact that condi warriors burst me harder than any power based class is completely absurd. Being bursted by CONDITIONS faster and harder than any POWER based build is not ok. Mesmers and necros can burst pretty hard too.

If I don’t have focus earth 4/5 up as ele and a warrior attacks me I’m going to do 9 times out of 10.

Why exactly?

I know games like WoW have conditions set up as slow long term damage. Is there some law that says it has to be like this? Is there any reason conditions shouldn’t be the main form of burst?

I also don’t understand why people keep saying that block/invuln/dodge doesn’t work on conditions… i’ve blocked, dodged and invulned many conditions. If you find conditions are somehow going through these effects please make sure to report them as exploiting or bugs because conditions are not applied through these effects (barring unblockable attacks and physical only invuln).

Then you should report bug, cos condis dmg you even when you dodge or block You can block/dodge attack applying it, but not a condi that is already on you. I agree with invul, but not with dodges or blocks, let’s be realists. While all those effects work against power builds, the only thing against condis are resistsance and invul. The longest invul is like 3 secs, while the longest resistance for warrior is 9 sec, unless you pick everything that gives you resistance, then it is about 30 secs, but then… you are kitten and can’t do a thing cos you lack stabillity, survi and dmg and in result you die from direct damage

The idea is to dodge/block/invuln big condi application in the first place rather than mitigating it after being inflicted. Cleanse is a safety net.

I will only accept that yes skill animations should be moderated so that both big condi application and big direct damage skills have suitable animations, tells, or some way of anticipating an incoming burst so as being able to prevent the direct damage or conditions from being applied.

This is problematic do do, since every skill can proc an insane trait/sigil/rune condi aoe application.

Curunen.8729:

Kasteros.9847:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Shiyo.3578:

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

2-3 on the enemy TEAM, sometimes 4. Rarely 5.
6-8 per match, sometimes upwards of 9.

The fact that condi warriors burst me harder than any power based class is completely absurd. Being bursted by CONDITIONS faster and harder than any POWER based build is not ok. Mesmers and necros can burst pretty hard too.

If I don’t have focus earth 4/5 up as ele and a warrior attacks me I’m going to do 9 times out of 10.

Why exactly?

I know games like WoW have conditions set up as slow long term damage. Is there some law that says it has to be like this? Is there any reason conditions shouldn’t be the main form of burst?

I also don’t understand why people keep saying that block/invuln/dodge doesn’t work on conditions… i’ve blocked, dodged and invulned many conditions. If you find conditions are somehow going through these effects please make sure to report them as exploiting or bugs because conditions are not applied through these effects (barring unblockable attacks and physical only invuln).

Then you should report bug, cos condis dmg you even when you dodge or block You can block/dodge attack applying it, but not a condi that is already on you. I agree with invul, but not with dodges or blocks, let’s be realists. While all those effects work against power builds, the only thing against condis are resistsance and invul. The longest invul is like 3 secs, while the longest resistance for warrior is 9 sec, unless you pick everything that gives you resistance, then it is about 30 secs, but then… you are kitten and can’t do a thing cos you lack stabillity, survi and dmg and in result you die from direct damage

The idea is to dodge/block/invuln big condi application in the first place rather than mitigating it after being inflicted. Cleanse is a safety net.

I will only accept that yes skill animations should be moderated so that both big condi application and big direct damage skills have suitable animations, tells, or some way of anticipating an incoming burst so as being able to prevent the direct damage or conditions from being applied.

Tell me how to dodge every single scepter 1? CB? Every shroud skill? Every of em are big condi application skilsl and you can’t even dodge/block some od them! Not to mention that a lot of skills apply condis due to traits so you have to dodge a lot of em… And as you mentioned, a lot of animations look similar when we take reaper into account, expecially in shroud… Or invisible mesmer. Also when warrior stun you, you can’t dodge / block his big condi application skills… And as I wrote almost all skills apply a lot of condis with all this trait / runes nonsense… ><

Rune of the krait: +20% Bleeding duration; *when you use your elite skill you inflict Bleeding, torment, and Poison for 8 seconds to nearby foes. *
+15% Bleeding duration; 25% chance when struck to cause Bleeding for 10 seconds.

This is one example of the worst game design if we want compare power build to condi build. As you can see, the “elite” of this rune apply those 3 condition on USE, not on hit, this means there’s no way you dodge an animation, cuz when you see it coming the skill has already been used, and the aoe application already occured. This means you have the potential to create a burst dmg equivalent to an entire UA or an eviscerate by just using your elite, with the difference that this burst will care nothing about your protection, toghness or weakness. Insane! And dont come to tell me “dodge the condi”, cuz you can’t dodge that, is on use!!! What should i do, randomly dodge and hoping the opponent will use his elite when i’m dodging???
The 25% chance to apply bleeding when struck is just another example of passive condi gameplay.

But this is only one. Go watch alle the runes, condi runes are all much better than power/ferocity ones, and all with passive mechanics on them. If you watch all the condi trait/sigill/aoe skill applications you will notice they all work with the same mentality of this rune. Condi dmg can be okay (well whatever we can discuss all the time we want, but i will never appreciate a gameplay like condi that promotes kiting and put yourself in an offensive situation even when you can be passive), the condi application is not!!

Every sigil/rune with cleanse instead is a lottery. Like the rune of the water… why on the hell should i take that?25% chance when struck to remove a condition. (Cooldown: 30s) Are you kittening kidding me? is the opponent chosing when i’m cleansing? Should i start /dance in front an opponent when i have 10 stack of burning? Hoping he will hit me?? A condi cleanse should always be on demand and immediate, wich means is the player having the complete control of it, not based on luck, and the entire cleansing mechanic in this game is based on LUCK! Cuz off course, if im gonna take this rune i already know this will proc when i have 1 stack of vulnerability or cripple.
Pff.. esports… esports should remove luck, not rewarding it.
Rune of the soldier is a perfect example of how a cleanse based rune should be… unfortunately not every class has shouts, and in fact those that have shouts are the class with less problems when dealing with condis… Anet seems to have lost the entire logic in his game.

The fact is we cant ask to nerf a specific condi skill application, cuz is the entire way condi are applied that is wrong, cuz most of them are aoe!!!

This thread is just false equivalency after false equivalency.

1. I can’t dodge/block/invuln after power attacks have already damaged me either. This is exactly the same between power and condition. The difference being that power damage is faster and irreversible while conditions can be cleansed after application.

2. I can’t block/dodge/invuln every AA or weapon skill from power attacks either. If there are individual skills you think do too much condition damage in one hit then please list them so we can determine if they are actually a problem. necro scepter 1 applies a 10s bleed for 150 dmg a tick for a total of 1500 damage. It can’t crit and can be cleansed at any time. A ranger LB attack does 1000 per hit and can crit for 3000 damage. It is instant and can not be cleansed.

3. You can apply too many conditions at once. Weapon swap air sigil + instant attack + AA can do 20k damage in a single hit. Power damage skills can crit for 10k with no chance to cleanse. I’m not seeing the difference, I guess once has more visible icons, takes 1 full second to apply the damage and can be removed to deal 0 damage before that 1s while the other is instant with no icon and no way to stop it.

Kasteros.9847:

Curunen.8729:

Kasteros.9847:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Shiyo.3578:

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

2-3 on the enemy TEAM, sometimes 4. Rarely 5.
6-8 per match, sometimes upwards of 9.

The fact that condi warriors burst me harder than any power based class is completely absurd. Being bursted by CONDITIONS faster and harder than any POWER based build is not ok. Mesmers and necros can burst pretty hard too.

If I don’t have focus earth 4/5 up as ele and a warrior attacks me I’m going to do 9 times out of 10.

Why exactly?

I know games like WoW have conditions set up as slow long term damage. Is there some law that says it has to be like this? Is there any reason conditions shouldn’t be the main form of burst?

I also don’t understand why people keep saying that block/invuln/dodge doesn’t work on conditions… i’ve blocked, dodged and invulned many conditions. If you find conditions are somehow going through these effects please make sure to report them as exploiting or bugs because conditions are not applied through these effects (barring unblockable attacks and physical only invuln).

Then you should report bug, cos condis dmg you even when you dodge or block You can block/dodge attack applying it, but not a condi that is already on you. I agree with invul, but not with dodges or blocks, let’s be realists. While all those effects work against power builds, the only thing against condis are resistsance and invul. The longest invul is like 3 secs, while the longest resistance for warrior is 9 sec, unless you pick everything that gives you resistance, then it is about 30 secs, but then… you are kitten and can’t do a thing cos you lack stabillity, survi and dmg and in result you die from direct damage

The idea is to dodge/block/invuln big condi application in the first place rather than mitigating it after being inflicted. Cleanse is a safety net.

I will only accept that yes skill animations should be moderated so that both big condi application and big direct damage skills have suitable animations, tells, or some way of anticipating an incoming burst so as being able to prevent the direct damage or conditions from being applied.

Tell me how to dodge every single scepter 1? CB? Every shroud skill? Every of em are big condi application skilsl and you can’t even dodge/block some od them! Not to mention that a lot of skills apply condis due to traits so you have to dodge a lot of em… And as you mentioned, a lot of animations look similar when we take reaper into account, expecially in shroud… Or invisible mesmer. Also when warrior stun you, you can’t dodge / block his big condi application skills… And as I wrote almost all skills apply a lot of condis with all this trait / runes nonsense… ><

And there I agree that some condi application skills should be looked at and made more accessible to counter.

Where condi mesmer is concerned, despite shatters being instant hit it requires multiple chain shatters to build significant burst (unlike power mesmer which requires a single shatter and/or combo to nuke a huge chunk of hp) – a significant amount of which can be evaded/blocked (or illusions killed). Any residual application from the odd lone shatter is usually a minor threat to hit points and can be allowed to tick.

However when players panic if say a less than 5 stacks of a damaging condition are on them, either popping cleanses thinking it will kill them otherwise then there is a problem.

That other suggestion frequently popping up in this forum of greying out HP bars to indicate max damage of currently incurred conditions would go a long way to make it clear for players when to worry and when not to worry.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This thread is just false equivalency after false equivalency.

1. I can’t dodge/block/invuln after power attacks have already damaged me either. This is exactly the same between power and condition. The difference being that power damage is faster and irreversible while conditions can be cleansed after application.

2. I can’t block/dodge/invuln every AA or weapon skill from power attacks either. If there are individual skills you think do too much condition damage in one hit then please list them so we can determine if they are actually a problem. necro scepter 1 applies a 10s bleed for 150 dmg a tick for a total of 1500 damage. It can’t crit and can be cleansed at any time. A ranger LB attack does 1000 per hit and can crit for 3000 damage. It is instant and can not be cleansed.

3. You can apply too many conditions at once. Weapon swap air sigil + instant attack + AA can do 20k damage in a single hit. Power damage skills can crit for 10k with no chance to cleanse. I’m not seeing the difference, I guess once has more visible icons, takes 1 full second to apply the damage and can be removed to deal 0 damage before that 1s while the other is instant with no icon and no way to stop it.

I agree with this.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

This thread is just false equivalency after false equivalency.

1. I can’t dodge/block/invuln after power attacks have already damaged me either. This is exactly the same between power and condition. The difference being that power damage is faster and irreversible while conditions can be cleansed after application.

2. I can’t block/dodge/invuln every AA or weapon skill from power attacks either. If there are individual skills you think do too much condition damage in one hit then please list them so we can determine if they are actually a problem. necro scepter 1 applies a 10s bleed for 150 dmg a tick for a total of 1500 damage. It can’t crit and can be cleansed at any time. A ranger LB attack does 1000 per hit and can crit for 3000 damage. It is instant and can not be cleansed.

3. You can apply too many conditions at once. Weapon swap air sigil + instant attack + AA can do 20k damage in a single hit. Power damage skills can crit for 10k with no chance to cleanse. I’m not seeing the difference, I guess once has more visible icons, takes 1 full second to apply the damage and can be removed to deal 0 damage before that 1s while the other is instant with no icon and no way to stop it.

The diffrence is that you can dodge this 1 10k hit( who can hit for 10k anyway? Warrior? Yeah with gs’s 2. skill when he cast it for 3 secs…). You just need to watch OBVIOUS skill animations of hard dmg, while kitten of other and take me on. WIth condis you can’t dodge CB, you can’t dodge runes, you can’t dodge every single skill that apply kittentons of condis.

You can apply all condis at once with current meta warrior condi build, meta reaper condi build etc. And when ppl are trying to cleanse it they just can’t handle cleanse with MAX 3 condi cleanses per skill, and you can’t take all 3 skills against condis cos you know… there is always direct dmg. SO if you get all 13 condis.. sorry, but you won’t shake em off and if it is blind, cripple and slow you remove then you are kittened and get 5k hits every 1 sec…

Curunen.8729:

Kasteros.9847:

Curunen.8729:

Kasteros.9847:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Shiyo.3578:

Wolfric.9380:

Shiyo.3578:

Condi’s should be weaker than power builds in PVP because they require almost zero thought or brain power to deal damage with them.

While power builds have to time their damage between blocks, invuls, dodges, and what have you, condition builds can just press their buttons whenever they want and eventually randomly kill you.

Oh, also, the worst thing of all is that conditions burst almost as hard as power builds. That’s not ok.

Most teams I fight in ranked have 2-3 condi players on them, sometimes 4.

Please bring conditions back in line, anet.

While i agree some condi “Bursts” are not good, 2-3 condi classes would mean the game is balaced between condi/power. And in reality we see about 1/3 condi builds average. I know its a bad feeling that condis are out and can kill you but it dosen´t seem to be to much….
I know i die to most mesmers but this doesn´t mean i loose a match … I avoid dueling them and eiter win the teamfight or a duel against a class i can beat…
And the rising condi warriors. I had a hard time bating good power warriors. The new condi ones don´t kill me, the fight becomes a stalemate now. So not all is about meta builds and the picture is over a lot of classes …

2-3 on the enemy TEAM, sometimes 4. Rarely 5.
6-8 per match, sometimes upwards of 9.

The fact that condi warriors burst me harder than any power based class is completely absurd. Being bursted by CONDITIONS faster and harder than any POWER based build is not ok. Mesmers and necros can burst pretty hard too.

If I don’t have focus earth 4/5 up as ele and a warrior attacks me I’m going to do 9 times out of 10.

Why exactly?

I know games like WoW have conditions set up as slow long term damage. Is there some law that says it has to be like this? Is there any reason conditions shouldn’t be the main form of burst?

I also don’t understand why people keep saying that block/invuln/dodge doesn’t work on conditions… i’ve blocked, dodged and invulned many conditions. If you find conditions are somehow going through these effects please make sure to report them as exploiting or bugs because conditions are not applied through these effects (barring unblockable attacks and physical only invuln).

Then you should report bug, cos condis dmg you even when you dodge or block You can block/dodge attack applying it, but not a condi that is already on you. I agree with invul, but not with dodges or blocks, let’s be realists. While all those effects work against power builds, the only thing against condis are resistsance and invul. The longest invul is like 3 secs, while the longest resistance for warrior is 9 sec, unless you pick everything that gives you resistance, then it is about 30 secs, but then… you are kitten and can’t do a thing cos you lack stabillity, survi and dmg and in result you die from direct damage

The idea is to dodge/block/invuln big condi application in the first place rather than mitigating it after being inflicted. Cleanse is a safety net.

I will only accept that yes skill animations should be moderated so that both big condi application and big direct damage skills have suitable animations, tells, or some way of anticipating an incoming burst so as being able to prevent the direct damage or conditions from being applied.

Tell me how to dodge every single scepter 1? CB? Every shroud skill? Every of em are big condi application skilsl and you can’t even dodge/block some od them! Not to mention that a lot of skills apply condis due to traits so you have to dodge a lot of em… And as you mentioned, a lot of animations look similar when we take reaper into account, expecially in shroud… Or invisible mesmer. Also when warrior stun you, you can’t dodge / block his big condi application skills… And as I wrote almost all skills apply a lot of condis with all this trait / runes nonsense… ><

And there I agree that some condi application skills should be looked at and made more accessible to counter.

Where condi mesmer is concerned, despite shatters being instant hit it requires multiple chain shatters to build significant burst (unlike power mesmer which requires a single shatter and/or combo to nuke a huge chunk of hp) – a significant amount of which can be evaded/blocked (or illusions killed). Any residual application from the odd lone shatter is usually a minor threat to hit points and can be allowed to tick.

However when players panic if say a less than 5 stacks of a damaging condition are on them, either popping cleanses thinking it will kill them otherwise then there is a problem.

That other suggestion frequently popping up in this forum of greying out HP bars to indicate max damage of currently incurred conditions would go a long way to make it clear for players when to worry and when not to worry.

The problem isn’t that ppl panic. Let’s take my example, I turn on cleanses when I get kittenton( like 10 condis) on me OR 10 stacks of burning, poison, 5 confusion and bleeding, cos it is like 5k dmg every sec. Yet instantly when I shake em off I get much more on me and then… I can’t cleanse it. Obviously I could run healing signet, zerker stance, signet of stamina and shake it off + soldier runes, but then I would be without stabillity and bonus crit… That is not the point, cos such build would be good against condi, but still there is direct damage and such skills would make lose to opponent anyway, cos utility skills are important part of the build.

The only good thing to do about condis is to limit their stacks( like it used to be before hot), limit number of condis on 1 player( like 5 diffrent condis is max) or make em hit every… 3 secs instead of 1. That would make ppl think what to throw, which condis to use and HOW to not make full condi burst builds, but also some survi to let condis do their job also time condis and fake some skills, like power builds do ^^

Shala.8352:

Rune of the krait: +20% Bleeding duration; *when you use your elite skill you inflict Bleeding, torment, and Poison for 8 seconds to nearby foes. *
+15% Bleeding duration; 25% chance when struck to cause Bleeding for 10 seconds.

This is one example of the worst game design if we want compare power build to condi build. As you can see, the “elite” of this rune apply those 3 condition on USE, not on hit, this means there’s no way you dodge an animation, cuz when you see it coming the skill has already been used, and the aoe application already occured. This means you have the potential to create a burst dmg equivalent to an entire UA or an eviscerate by just using your elite, with the difference that this burst will care nothing about your protection, toghness or weakness. Insane! And dont come to tell me “dodge the condi”, cuz you can’t dodge that, is on use!!! What should i do, randomly dodge and hoping the opponent will use his elite when i’m dodging???
The 25% chance to apply bleeding when struck is just another example of passive condi gameplay.

But this is only one. Go watch alle the runes, condi runes are all much better than power/ferocity ones, and all with passive mechanics on them. If you watch all the condi trait/sigill/aoe skill applications you will notice they all work with the same mentality of this rune. Condi dmg can be okay (well whatever we can discuss all the time we want, but i will never appreciate a gameplay like condi that promotes kiting and put yourself in an offensive situation even when you can be passive), the condi application is not!!

Every sigil/rune with cleanse instead is a lottery. Like the rune of the water… why on the hell should i take that?25% chance when struck to remove a condition. (Cooldown: 30s) Are you kittening kidding me? is the opponent chosing when i’m cleansing? Should i start /dance in front an opponent when i have 10 stack of burning? Hoping he will hit me?? A condi cleanse should always be on demand and immediate, wich means is the player having the complete control of it, not based on luck, and the entire cleansing mechanic in this game is based on LUCK! Cuz off course, if im gonna take this rune i already know this will proc when i have 1 stack of vulnerability or cripple.
Pff.. esports… esports should remove luck, not rewarding it.
Rune of the soldier is a perfect example of how a cleanse based rune should be… unfortunately not every class has shouts, and in fact those that have shouts are the class with less problems when dealing with condis… Anet seems to have lost the entire logic in his game.

The fact is we cant ask to nerf a specific condi skill application, cuz is the entire way condi are applied that is wrong, cuz most of them are aoe!!!

Krait rune is undodgable even if you dodge elite itself. But yeah pretty much this lol ^^

Shiyo.3578:

Power builds have to deal with block, invuls, dodges, etc and have to actually time their damage perfectly.

Except condi builds have to deal with all of those too.

Condis have to be applied, to apply a condi you have to land a attack, if your target dodges or blocks said attack, no conditions are applied.

The spamming nature of the game makes this tough to address. There is just too much of everything coming and going—-too short durations, and too many applications . The whole combat is way to frantic outside of a 1v1 which is still pretty fast. The game would really benefit if everything was slowed down drastically, and abilities had more impact.

There is depressingly little counter play in this games pvp. It mostly just spam everything and hope you stumble upon a gap in there defenses that are also being spammed.

Guild Wars 1 did so much right in pvp; this games pvp is ok for a mind numbing good time, but it breaks my heart otherwise.

Kasteros.9847:

The diffrence is that you can dodge this 1 10k hit( who can hit for 10k anyway? Warrior? Yeah with gs’s 2. skill when he cast it for 3 secs…). You just need to watch OBVIOUS skill animations of hard dmg, while kitten of other and take me on. WIth condis you can’t dodge CB, you can’t dodge runes, you can’t dodge every single skill that apply kittentons of condis.

You can apply all condis at once with current meta warrior condi build, meta reaper condi build etc. And when ppl are trying to cleanse it they just can’t handle cleanse with MAX 3 condi cleanses per skill, and you can’t take all 3 skills against condis cos you know… there is always direct dmg. SO if you get all 13 condis.. sorry, but you won’t shake em off and if it is blind, cripple and slow you remove then you are kittened and get 5k hits every 1 sec…

Just to make something clear – you say OBVIOUS animations as if that’s exclusive for power builds. Obvious animations exist in condi builds (Soul Spiral) and obscure animations exist in power builds (Surge of the Mists). So that point is moot.

Next, rune bonuses are equally nasty for power and condi. Pack Runes – AoE buff, Strength Runes – straight up damage boost + might, Leadership -AoE boon convert and massive boon duration. Nightmare Runes are good – sure, but the fear is only annoying, and once it proccs in a team fights, boo hoo, you have no more fear to worry about because the runes don’t do anything else really. Krait – sure, the undodgable design on those is bad but the actual effect is hardly overpowered… not to mention Wanderer + Krait is pretty redundant since your bleeds will last like 15 seconds… and if you ever played a condi build, you’d know that your super long condis never last the full duration.

Also, saying that you cleanse like 15 bleeds, and as soon as you do you get 15 more is stretching it. Imagine you fought 2 revenants instead of two Necros. Yay, no more condis… but those 15 bleeds would now be turned into instant 10k bursts. In other words you’d be instagibbed.
For example… Revenant Phase traversal + legend swap = you need to dodge that or you’ll take a huge hit, followed by surge of the mists – need to dodge that or you’ll get rekt, then you need to watch out for sword #3 cuz that’s gonna rek you, then sword#2. “I can’t dodge all of the condis!” well.. you can’t dodge all of the power attacks either, and a lot of em hit like a truck.

Shiyo.3578:

They shouldn’t be a strong as they are because condition damage doesn’t take any real skill, set up, or proper timing to use. You kinda just spam buttons. Power builds have to deal with block, invuls, dodges, etc and have to actually time their damage perfectly.

Condition is really easy to play.

Virtually every condition attack can be blocked or evaded. Where do you get the idea that you can not block or evade a condition attack?

There are few to NO pure condition attacks. Virtually all attacks on the respective weapon sets have a power or direct damage component meaning at any one time there more types of power attacks available to a power build.

The issue is people just do not think they have to block or dodge a person adding one or two conditions at a time.

You can block conditions applciations. You can dodge them. You will not block them all or dodge them all just as you can not block or dodge every power attack. For those you can not block or dodge you have a second layer of defense, your cleanse.

Why do people keep insisting over and over again that conditions attacks can not be blocked or dodged?

If you’re needing to do a ton of damage on a power setup in a match to take someone down, you’re doing it wrong

XD

Condi= a little over the limit but still ok. Easy to play. Not impossible to counter single target ones.
AOE Condi= Nope. Not ok. Really dude? Who thought this was a good idea?
Power= Always creeping. After all this time? Always.
Sustain= Nope. Not ok. Too much.
Evades= Nope. Not ok. Too many.

Crinn.7864:

Shiyo.3578:

Power builds have to deal with block, invuls, dodges, etc and have to actually time their damage perfectly.

Except condi builds have to deal with all of those too.

Condis have to be applied, to apply a condi you have to land a attack, if your target dodges or blocks said attack, no conditions are applied.

Check out condi runes like Krait or some passive traits Most of builds doesn;t even req you to land a hit, just run around and laugh whiel enemy will get condis attacking you, or just from missed elite. Also there are skills that canlt be dodged but put a lot of condis( like CB) and finally you can’t dodge every scepter 1 while reaper can spam it every single moment

Kasteros.9847:

Crinn.7864:

Shiyo.3578:

Power builds have to deal with block, invuls, dodges, etc and have to actually time their damage perfectly.

Except condi builds have to deal with all of those too.

Condis have to be applied, to apply a condi you have to land a attack, if your target dodges or blocks said attack, no conditions are applied.

Check out condi runes like Krait or some passive traits Most of builds doesn;t even req you to land a hit, just run around and laugh whiel enemy will get condis attacking you, or just from missed elite. Also there are skills that canlt be dodged but put a lot of condis( like CB) and finally you can’t dodge every scepter 1 while reaper can spam it every single moment

Any player can spam their AA every moment. Why is the fact that one applies a stack of condition damage different than one just does raw damage? Do one iteration of an AA on a condition build and compare total damage to a power build. The power build wins , hands down.

As to Krait the bonus is one stack of torment one of bleed on on poison and a 30 second cooldown. In that time I can get a 5 percent bonus to each and every one of my attacks using Rune of Strength . I can get a whole lot of attacks off in 30 seconds and the added overall damage will be far more then one stack of those named conditions.

Let’s clarify some stuff:

Condi CAN’T be applied through block evade or invuln, JUST LIKE POWER

ON TOP OF THAT you can remove it or use resistance to cover the burst.

So you actually have MORE ways of protecting yourself from it HOWEVER it’s supposed to be balanced out by Toughness.

If there’s an issue with condi it’s simply that. In my opinion the fix is simple. Take away the differential and make condi deal less damage based on toughness (maybe rename the stat) and make “toughness” give resistance and armour (yes that’s how you spell armour, Americans can’t spell).

Secondly, balance damage accordingly and remove condi cleanse/resistance from the game, since if you can dodge/block it, then why have more effects to stop damage for one type than another? If you make the above change, resist and cleanse can be removed.

Finally, condi being easier and not requiring skill is a complete myth made up by people who die to it because quite simply it’s annoying to die to a DOT even when you’ve disengaged. In actual fact there are additional REACTIVE WAYS to respond to condi bursts – remove condi or resistance, so just pay attention, you probably haven’t actually played a condi class and so haven’t learned how they work if you’re complaining.

Whereas power based damage requires more skill to mitigate because you rely on blocks/evades/unvuln solely and toughness which is passive, but doesn’t assist with bursts.

TL;DR – yes changes need to be made but stop complaining, condi is actually just as hard to play and easier to play against (as long as your class permits). If the meta is so heavily condi, stop playing your weak kitten build which hasn’t been adapted to deal with it – you freaking scrub.

Also, just based on “condi meta” DH isn’t going to be as poor as last season.

Does condi even have any real counters? Besides druid.

odstninja.1468:

Does condi even have any real counters? Besides druid.

Even druid doesnt really work anymore. You can only cleanse so many bursts of condi before your out of tools. Even more so now that our condi clear on seeds was halfed.

As to all the people going on " you just slot condi clear it’s not that hard" I play druid with solider runes and seeds, which is one of the class builds that people go on about being anti condi, and I constantly get overloaded with and eventually overwhelmed. I couldn’t imagine playing thief or warrior with the few tools they have to deal with condi.

The issue right now is there is just simply too much condi application all around in aoe format and in large stacks, Teams are running pure condi damage nothing else, and when your in those kinds of matchups there is nothing you can do but blow your clears, and get melted anyways.

All the classes need some access to some resistance, we need a reduction on application for aoe skills, and to be frank we need toughness and protections reductions normalized to affect conditions. Then I think conditions could be healthy.

Yeah pretty much the problem is that the entire node is covered in conditions and you can’t go anywhere near it without being feared/dotted up to hell.

Thus why people think conditions are “no skill” because people are just pianoing all their conditions onto the node everytime they come off cooldown and doing tons of damage, while a power based build has to time their damage properly the condition is sitting there just aoe bombing the node over and over with zero thought.

It’s much easier to be effective as a condition player than a power player because of how easy it is to just AOE bomb and stack conditions onto a small point.

Eval.2371:

odstninja.1468:

Does condi even have any real counters? Besides druid.

Even druid doesnt really work anymore. You can only cleanse so many bursts of condi before your out of tools. Even more so now that our condi clear on seeds was halfed.

As to all the people going on " you just slot condi clear it’s not that hard" I play druid with solider runes and seeds, which is one of the class builds that people go on about being anti condi, and I constantly get overloaded with and eventually overwhelmed. I couldn’t imagine playing thief or warrior with the few tools they have to deal with condi.

The issue right now is there is just simply too much condi application all around in aoe format and in large stacks, Teams are running pure condi damage nothing else, and when your in those kinds of matchups there is nothing you can do but blow your clears, and get melted anyways.

All the classes need some access to some resistance, we need a reduction on application for aoe skills, and to be frank we need toughness and protections reductions normalized to affect conditions. Then I think conditions could be healthy.

Absolutely agreed. I run a guard build with more condi clear than you can shake a stick at and all it takes are 2 condi classes (or one very skilled condi mesmer) to overwhelm my condi clear. I would love some resistnce on guard, especially if it was granted through some of our less used skills like signets, certin shouts or consecrations.

INVU.5978:

Let’s clarify some stuff:

Condi CAN’T be applied through block evade or invuln, JUST LIKE POWER

ON TOP OF THAT you can remove it or use resistance to cover the burst.

So you actually have MORE ways of protecting yourself from it HOWEVER it’s supposed to be balanced out by Toughness.

If there’s an issue with condi it’s simply that. In my opinion the fix is simple. Take away the differential and make condi deal less damage based on toughness (maybe rename the stat) and make “toughness” give resistance and armour (yes that’s how you spell armour, Americans can’t spell).

Secondly, balance damage accordingly and remove condi cleanse/resistance from the game, since if you can dodge/block it, then why have more effects to stop damage for one type than another? If you make the above change, resist and cleanse can be removed.

Finally, condi being easier and not requiring skill is a complete myth made up by people who die to it because quite simply it’s annoying to die to a DOT even when you’ve disengaged. In actual fact there are additional REACTIVE WAYS to respond to condi bursts – remove condi or resistance, so just pay attention, you probably haven’t actually played a condi class and so haven’t learned how they work if you’re complaining.

Whereas power based damage requires more skill to mitigate because you rely on blocks/evades/unvuln solely and toughness which is passive, but doesn’t assist with bursts.

TL;DR – yes changes need to be made but stop complaining, condi is actually just as hard to play and easier to play against (as long as your class permits). If the meta is so heavily condi, stop playing your weak kitten build which hasn’t been adapted to deal with it – you freaking scrub.

Also, just based on “condi meta” DH isn’t going to be as poor as last season.

That is a lie. Necro marks go through blocks. Krait rune 6th bonus goes through dodges/blocks. Just to name few.

No condi removal in the world nor resistance is enough to deal with condi bombs that are flying atm.

Cynz.9437:

INVU.5978:

Let’s clarify some stuff:

Condi CAN’T be applied through block evade or invuln, JUST LIKE POWER

ON TOP OF THAT you can remove it or use resistance to cover the burst.

So you actually have MORE ways of protecting yourself from it HOWEVER it’s supposed to be balanced out by Toughness.

If there’s an issue with condi it’s simply that. In my opinion the fix is simple. Take away the differential and make condi deal less damage based on toughness (maybe rename the stat) and make “toughness” give resistance and armour (yes that’s how you spell armour, Americans can’t spell).

Secondly, balance damage accordingly and remove condi cleanse/resistance from the game, since if you can dodge/block it, then why have more effects to stop damage for one type than another? If you make the above change, resist and cleanse can be removed.

Finally, condi being easier and not requiring skill is a complete myth made up by people who die to it because quite simply it’s annoying to die to a DOT even when you’ve disengaged. In actual fact there are additional REACTIVE WAYS to respond to condi bursts – remove condi or resistance, so just pay attention, you probably haven’t actually played a condi class and so haven’t learned how they work if you’re complaining.

Whereas power based damage requires more skill to mitigate because you rely on blocks/evades/unvuln solely and toughness which is passive, but doesn’t assist with bursts.

TL;DR – yes changes need to be made but stop complaining, condi is actually just as hard to play and easier to play against (as long as your class permits). If the meta is so heavily condi, stop playing your weak kitten build which hasn’t been adapted to deal with it – you freaking scrub.

Also, just based on “condi meta” DH isn’t going to be as poor as last season.

That is a lie. Necro marks go through blocks. Krait rune 6th bonus goes through dodges/blocks. Just to name few.

No condi removal in the world nor resistance is enough to deal with condi bombs that are flying atm.

Yeap, even cleanse runes are kitten when compared to condi runes…

I think a really big fatal flaw with conditions is the fact that none of my defensive abilities, boons(I don’t have resistance), or stats(toughness) do anything at all to protect me from them. It was ok back when cleansing to condi application was pretty balanced, but now we’re at the point where conditions are basically not cleansable at all times and are equal to power builds in terms of burst and DPS.

I think it’s time to make protection/toughness work on condis. Or hand out resistance to nearly every class.

Shiyo.3578:

Yeah pretty much the problem is that the entire node is covered in conditions and you can’t go anywhere near it without being feared/dotted up to hell.

Thus why people think conditions are “no skill” because people are just pianoing all their conditions onto the node everytime they come off cooldown and doing tons of damage, while a power based build has to time their damage properly the condition is sitting there just aoe bombing the node over and over with zero thought.

It’s much easier to be effective as a condition player than a power player because of how easy it is to just AOE bomb and stack conditions onto a small point.

That’s it!….The whole kittening problem is that: unblockable necro marks spamming on the point, it’s the same with wvw .. you see marks everywhere, the backline of german servers is entirely made up of necros…

i love it when ppl come to complain about condi users being bad and that condi should be nerfed, yet they probably die to condi because they dont know how to read specific tells and/or how to fight a condi user.

Stand The Wall.6987:

i love it when ppl come to complain about condi users being bad and that condi should be nerfed, yet they probably die to condi because they dont know how to read specific tells and/or how to fight a condi user.

Krait rune hits through dodge/blocks, you can read war elite all you want.

If you hit war or necro even once you get condis you because of passives. What is there to read?

You can read mesmer clones all you want, you can dodge all you want, you will still get hit by miriad of them.

That is the problem with condi builds: you can read them all you want, you simply don’t have enough tools to deal with them (unless you zerg that 1 guy).

Take old hambow, you dodge big hits, you know they are on CD. You can pressure them. Atm everything it is just spam, there is no meaningful CDs anymore that punish you for misplay.

Stand The Wall.6987:

i love it when ppl come to complain about condi users being bad and that condi should be nerfed, yet they probably die to condi because they dont know how to read specific tells and/or how to fight a condi user.

This is the exact same argument people used to defend turret eng. That spec is now no longer a thing.

As cynz said, it’s so much easier to outplay and punish a power player while condi users can do whatever they want with little to punishment or counter the majority of the time.

Condis being this strong and easy is bad for the health of the game competetively.

I love how most of the posters say condi is baaaad and should be nerfed and not even mentioning the truckload of CCs we are facing and what we have against it thanks to WvWvW. Yeah, I’m looking at you stability.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Also condi thief pure aids in 1v1.

Condi mesmer is even worse, lol

Conditions wouldn’t be this hated if:
- conditions was effected by toughness.
- conditions was effected by protection.
- cleanses cleansed damaging conditions first starting with the one with most dps.
- after cleansing you have 1-2 second(s) immunity to cleansed condition(s).

While I think the top two is very needed.

Wow, that time of the month already for some of you eh?

Okay, first of all, stop comparing condis to other games and trying to impose their laws on this game. Condis are not a “kill your enemy slow” source of damage. They are an alternate source of damage, just a different way to play.

Ok, more bubble popping time…..most condi builds require at least 2 of the following to be effective, condi damage, precision, and expertise. Boy this sounds alot like power builds needing power, precision, ferocity. Now now I know what you’re thinking, “But wait, power builds MUST HAVE all 3 of those stats, but but but condi reall only needs 1!” Not true my friend, plenty of power builds drop either ferocity or precision to take more defensive stats, aka our bruisers. This reduces their potential damage, just the same as condi users do when they go for their defensive stats.

Now on to the gameplay. You say “Well condi is just applied by autos and passives!” Well……yeah, welcome to how everything, including power damage, works in GW2. You telling me that you guys don’t have passives that deal direct damage or auto attacks that deal direct damage?

Now, mitigation is another topic I see often. Let’s set one thing straight to start with, the majority of methods for avoiding direct damage is the same for avoiding condi damage (aka block, blind, dodge, etc). Well then you guys say “Well condis go right through armor and protection, but power damage doesn’t!” Well that is true, but please tell me, what do condi cleanses and resistance do to power damage? Nothing right? Yup, they only effect condi damage. But here is the real kicker, whereas armor and protection reduce direct damage, resistance and condi cleanse completely negate condi damage. Poor power builds, sounds like they have it so hard.

Now for an example. My 2 favorite builds to play are Flamethrower Engi and Maurauder Engi, cause you know, Scrapper be boring as kitten. Now when I’m playing my condi Engi, I have fun setting a bunch of noobs on fire and bursting them down quick. However, I have no use in a teamfight due to constant group cleanses and my lack of aoe condi application. I accept that though, just one of my build’s weaknesses. But then I come across decent players that, gasp, bring condi cleanse, and I most often have to severely outplay them, disengage, or die. After a while of that I get bored and hop on my power Engi, and enjoy dealing much higher burst damage that isn’t completely negated, and I get to enjoy throwing my grenades into team fights and making a difference.

So this whole power vs condi argument is ridiculous. They are alternate methods of achieving the same goal, that’s it. Please stop kidding yourself into thinking one requires more skill than the other, they don’t. At some point you have to accept that the condi player that killed you either a) had a really easy time cause you didn’t want to or don’t know how to use your condi clear or, b) you were prepared to fight a condi class but you were simply outplayed. Stop blaming the game for your own shortcomings, unless of course it’s one of those patches where Anet completely broke something…..cause that does actually happen sometimes.

I do not care about condi builds. I can run or deal with them. But be honest, they are easy to play, harder to fail. Condi mesmer? I am playing a core condi mesmer and it is easy. Really easy. I love it, and been playing condi mesmer even before all this condi changes (it was crappy though )

But condi does not need expertise. Condi does not need precision. They are only nice additions. Dire condi mesmer can hurt many professions without ease. I am all for condition builds but please try to be objective and honest.

After 50 games this season i had one single game, where condition dmg taken was higher ( ~ 50%) than direkt dmg taken – enemy team had 3 necros, 1 warrior and 1 thief – my team won btw, and i didn’t die the whole match. One game, where direkt and condi dmg taken was about even. 48 games where direkt dmg taken was significantly higher. Often 3-4x or even more.

I really wonder, what you are doing, to only die to conditions …

UmbraNoctis.1907:

After 50 games this season i had one single game, where condition dmg taken was higher ( ~ 50%) than direkt dmg taken – enemy team had 3 necros, 1 warrior and 1 thief – my team won btw, and i didn’t die the whole match. One game, where direkt and condi dmg taken was about even. 48 games where direkt dmg taken was significantly higher. Often 3-4x or even more.

I really wonder, what you are doing, to only die to conditions …

I don’t think you can use that as a proof. I mean if I die 2 times in a row from condition bombs I have lost 30-40k damage, but if I fight a power build and manage to heal myself over and over again I don’t die but the damage I have received is way over 30-40k damage. Understand what I mean? It could may as well prove the contrary as if you survive longer by getting hit by pure power but die faster with condition damage.

Not all good builds are condi builds.