Guild Wars 2

leman.7682:

Bhawb.7408:

Chukree.1756:

Any professional response to my complain?

Stop being bad and you’ll realize that turret engi isn’t that good.

What Phd (OP) is saying is that turrets have an insanely high payoff-to-effort ratio and actually work in an unorganised PvP. When I play Ranked Arena solo and encounter turret engies, I get insanely mad, because there are a limited number of good players who will adjust and outplay a turreteer through rotations.
Usually you don’t land with only such players on your team and get some PvE heroes that will just get screwed sooner or later and then just rush back over and over again leading to an ultimate wreck.

Point is, in unorganised play the turret engie is extremely likely to contribute a lot with very little effort. The build allows players who use it, to bring their contribution to levels that is unattainable by them with ‘normal’ builds (much like power LB pew-pew ranger) and this is the problem here.
When I play as a premade team, I don’t care in the least if there are turret engies on the other team; they will get rekt. But when I see these baddies winning over other baddies just because of the build, I understand these complaints.

Should Anet just make these classes harder to use? If you nerf turreteer engi because the class is “too easy to use”… well idk.. A nerf like that has never happened in MMO history. You might as well nerf power rangers because standing in place pressing two buttons is too easy too.

The overall turreteer spec is balanced because they’re not viable in higher tier teams. Don’t fix something that isnt broken; don’t nerf something that isn’t op.

second page glitch

Saiyan.1704:

The overall turreteer spec is balanced because they’re not viable in higher tier teams. Don’t fix something that isnt broken; don’t nerf something that isn’t op.

As Lux pointed out earlier, a team with 2 turret engies:

“beat out one other team (2-1 vs AG) and their first round was vs Abjured… so they didn’t have much of a chance vs abjured anyway.
0-2 vs abjured
2-1 vs AG
1-2 vs Radioactive”

A team with 2 turret engies won a match in the NA WTS 2-1, and took a game off of Radioactive. I am not trying to worship AG and Radioactive, but these teams most certainly have high-level players. To say that turrets is unviable in high-level play goes against empirical evidence to the contrary. It may not be winning major tourneys, but it is competing darn well. All the while, it requires barely half a brain to play. That just doesn’t seem right to me.

Why bother viability when that’s completely apart from the point. The point of the conversation -should- be “this is a build that shouldn’t be in the game because it advocates being afk, also is the most boring and awful thing to play against.”

Of course it is strong, but of course it is beatable. But really nobody cares, or at least you shouldn’t. Nobody likes to play against it and that’s all that matters.

AFK specs like turrets are just bad for the game, promote bad play, and create really dumb walls that don’t allow people to actually enjoy PvP (or get better at it).

BlackBeard.2873:

As Lux pointed out earlier, a team with 2 turret engies:

“beat out one other team (2-1 vs AG) and their first round was vs Abjured… so they didn’t have much of a chance vs abjured anyway.
0-2 vs abjured
2-1 vs AG
1-2 vs Radioactive”

A team with 2 turret engies won a match in the NA WTS 2-1, and took a game off of Radioactive. I am not trying to worship AG and Radioactive, but these teams most certainly have high-level players. To say that turrets is unviable in high-level play goes against empirical evidence to the contrary. It may not be winning major tourneys, but it is competing darn well. All the while, it requires barely half a brain to play. That just doesn’t seem right to me.

So all this time it was “l2p issue” and “non viable at competitive play”, what has changed since then?

Rezzet.3614:

serenke.4806:

So basically turret engi is easy to kill to all of the above top tier players but it takes too much time and effort and as such it has to be removed.

so Warriors and Guardians should be removed from the game by your logic

It was not my logic but how this whole thread sounded.

rotten.9753:

So all this time it was “l2p issue” and “non viable at competitive play”, what has changed since then?

Not sure what your referring to… A couple months ago my opinion may have been on the other side of the argument (especially as I played ele and often had a decent matchup against many very bad turreters who would just drop them all on top of one another). However, after trying the spec for myself, I witness first-hand how absolutely pathetic it is that it exists. It wasn’t really fun for me to play, and I could see it wasn’t fun for my opponents. They weren’t being stupid either. They would try to range down the turrets 1×1 (I spread them in the most evil locations). When that failed, they would try to 2v1 or 3v1, but between all the boons, evades, crate godliness, and healing turret being redic, it would take so long that the rest of the map was lost. Eventually teams would try to ignore me, and then lose in the rest of the map because the 4 players were able to hold at least 1 other point most of the time.

The spec is INCREDIBLY easy, is INCREDIBLY frustrating to play against (b/c you know its easy, and still have to play your tail off to beat it, with the proper spec), and INCREDIBLY over-rewarding given that it does so much damage/cc while being so hard to kill. My experience playing the spec demonstrated to me how cancerous it was for the game. I felt so guilty, I apologized to the other team and told them it was just to test.

BlackBeard.2873:

Saiyan.1704:

The overall turreteer spec is balanced because they’re not viable in higher tier teams. Don’t fix something that isnt broken; don’t nerf something that isn’t op.

As Lux pointed out earlier, a team with 2 turret engies:

“beat out one other team (2-1 vs AG) and their first round was vs Abjured… so they didn’t have much of a chance vs abjured anyway.
0-2 vs abjured
2-1 vs AG
1-2 vs Radioactive”

A team with 2 turret engies won a match in the NA WTS 2-1, and took a game off of Radioactive. I am not trying to worship AG and Radioactive, but these teams most certainly have high-level players. To say that turrets is unviable in high-level play goes against empirical evidence to the contrary. It may not be winning major tourneys, but it is competing darn well. All the while, it requires barely half a brain to play. That just doesn’t seem right to me.

You’re right these events happen way too often and shouldn’t happen at all, no matter what kind of skill level these players have, the two Engi’s obviously carried their whole team. Raise the skill level. How about a click combination lock in order to place turrets?

How many double professions partake in these tournaments? Engi’s are strong by default, followed by Eles and Warriors. Two turreteer Engi’s are finally contenders in tournaments? I’m surprised more people aren’t succeeding with them.
sarcasm

Wilco.1458:

Why bother viability when that’s completely apart from the point. The point of the conversation -should- be “this is a build that shouldn’t be in the game because it advocates being afk, also is the most boring and awful thing to play against.”

Of course it is strong, but of course it is beatable. But really nobody cares, or at least you shouldn’t. Nobody likes to play against it and that’s all that matters.

^ I agree wholeheartedly.
When I first started this game I absolutely despised fighting Mesmers. Thought that class was completely broken. I got better. Still don’t like the class.

BlackBeard.2873:

Not sure what your referring to… A couple months ago my opinion may have been on the other side of the argument (especially as I played ele and often had a decent matchup against many very bad turreters who would just drop them all on top of one another). However, after trying the spec for myself, I witness first-hand how absolutely pathetic it is that it exists. It wasn’t really fun for me to play, and I could see it wasn’t fun for my opponents. They weren’t being stupid either. They would try to range down the turrets 1×1 (I spread them in the most evil locations). When that failed, they would try to 2v1 or 3v1, but between all the boons, evades, crate godliness, and healing turret being redic, it would take so long that the rest of the map was lost. Eventually teams would try to ignore me, and then lose in the rest of the map because the 4 players were able to hold at least 1 other point most of the time.

The spec is INCREDIBLY easy, is INCREDIBLY frustrating to play against (b/c you know its easy, and still have to play your tail off to beat it, with the proper spec), and INCREDIBLY over-rewarding given that it does so much damage/cc while being so hard to kill. My experience playing the spec demonstrated to me how cancerous it was for the game. I felt so guilty, I apologized to the other team and told them it was just to test.

The issue with turret engies has been visible on this forum for quite some time and every time someone made a thread about it, he was met with those answers. Suddenly, we have like 5 new topics daily about it and it’s a viable spec capable of contesting high tier players. This is what I don’t understand, the sudden change of community’s reaction to it.

I’ve been recently playing this very spec and while it’s easy to play (like most bunkers/bruisers), it is very fun to play (people like to cc others). From your answer I take it you were playing like most do which is to camp one node. I do this a bit differently, preferring to be a bit more roamer with a flame turret instead of a rocket turret (due to lower cooldown). I’m not sure which playstyle is more beneficial to your team but it most likely depends on the enemy skill and coordination level.

Akikaze.1307:

Novuake.2691:

What I find funny is that bunker guards are a lot harder to kill, yet no complaints? Hmmmm….

When was the last time a bunker guardian killed you (without his team assisting)?

When i LET him kill me. Same goes for turret Engi’s. KEK, you walked right into that one.

rotten.9753:

The issue with turret engies has been visible on this forum for quite some time and every time someone made a thread about it, he was met with those answers. Suddenly, we have like 5 new topics daily about it and it’s a viable spec capable of contesting high tier players. This is what I don’t understand, the sudden change of community’s reaction to it.

I’ve been recently playing this very spec and while it’s easy to play (like most bunkers/bruisers), it is very fun to play (people like to cc others). From your answer I take it you were playing like most do which is to camp one node. I do this a bit differently, preferring to be a bit more roamer with a flame turret instead of a rocket turret (due to lower cooldown). I’m not sure which playstyle is more beneficial to your team but it most likely depends on the enemy skill and coordination level.

Then you are considered a decap engi, NOT a turret bunker Engi, NOT the Engi people are constantly complaining about. And no ITS NOT KITTENED “contesting high tier players”.

Novuake.2691:

When i LET him kill me. Same goes for turret Engi’s. KEK, you walked right into that one.

Lies. The Engi didn’t kill you, the turrets did.

if you can’t kill someone with no stability, no stunbreaks and abysmal condition clear you need to reevaluate your play, or if your build just can’t do it let another member of the team take care of them.

Akikaze.1307:

Novuake.2691:

When i LET him kill me. Same goes for turret Engi’s. KEK, you walked right into that one.

Lies. The Engi didn’t kill you, the turrets did.

No, since the AI in this game is terrible and the turrets exceedingly predictable. Shhh mate, your just making it worse on yourself.

turret engies are like LB rangers, spirit rangers, minion mancers, hambow etc. all decent builds, but looking beyond their strengths you find their weaknesses.
LB ranger > squishy, lack of condi removal, lack of healing
Spirit Ranger > AI is weak, AOE wrecks them.
Minion Mancer > Mobility and AOE
Hambow > Stability stop most of their CC, thus you can just dance around them and avoid majority of damage.

Turrets >Mobility and AOE. Moving 8 turrets into range is tough. These turrets do have quite a good range to them, but they do not spam attacks frequently. Meaning you can get into 1200-1500 range and unleash 2-3 AOE attacks in the time that turrets can hit you maybe two times.
Once on cooldown, the engineer has little defenses left. Turret engies relies on body blocking, so they hide behind their turrets so the turrets block attacks. Solution> AOE or piercing attacks.
Alternatively you can use one nuiseance to deal with another. LB rangers are one of the worst enemies that turret engi can face against, mainly because they can do massive damage from outside turret range and also happen to have access to AOE attacks that does quick work of their turrets. Couple this with the insane stability duration and engineers defensive CC has no real purpose VS a ranger. In terms of defense, a well set up ranger will not be as tanky, but much more damaging then the engineer, and with equal or greater access to CC.

Novuake.2691:

Akikaze.1307:

Novuake.2691:

When i LET him kill me. Same goes for turret Engi’s. KEK, you walked right into that one.

Lies. The Engi didn’t kill you, the turrets did.

No, since the AI in this game is terrible and the turrets exceedingly predictable. Shhh mate, your just making it worse on yourself.

Excuses, you’re full of them. Least know difference between you’re and your.

Novuake.2691:

Then you are considered a decap engi, NOT a turret bunker Engi, NOT the Engi people are constantly complaining about.

Nah, I just don’t camp one node when I see an enemy ignores me. Quick travel to the mid, supply crate, maybe a thumper turret here and there and the game sways to my favour.

And no ITS NOT KITTENED “contesting high tier players”.

You can write here that but the fact remains that someone said that one team using 2 turret engies during WTS got 1 win against radioactive. That’s a pretty much what I wrote.

The problem really isn’t the engi, but the long recharge on stability skills, reflects and stun-breakers that makes it barely impossible to fight back a certain amount of ccs.

Not enough QQ in this thread…
I guess I pack out my old turreteer build and hang-glide in khylo for a bit…
Or I could go to sleep…
Hard decissions.

Oh, this thread is still alive.
Frustration created by lack of skills sure is stronk.

Arantheal.7396:

Not enough QQ in this thread…
I guess I pack out my old turreteer build and hang-glide in khylo for a bit…
Or I could go to sleep…
Hard decissions.

With your turret engi you can do both at the same time, sleep well my prince.

I’m speaking more of experience than anything. Turret engi’s are only a problem when you are playing with pugs who do not communicate. But when you are with people with some brain power, they become complete garbage.

Example- I run to far point and see a turret engi standing there, all i say is this “Turret engi on far point” then bam, their team is outnumbered in any fight we do which ofc leads to our victory as we constantly keep 2 points while they keep one. What if the turret engi is smart then?! (typical nonsense argument) well what he will do is that he will realize what we are doing and rush another point (let’s use mid for example) all i say is this “Turret engi mid” then pam we own the sides.

You guys need to stop complaining about such a weak build as that one. If you are with nonsense pugs tho, then it’s understandable, but definetly not as bad as you guys make it seem.

what you said might be true kye, but do we rly want a spec in game that works rly well even if you arent doing anything? ….i guess not…..personally i think all the ai except the mesmer clones/ illusions should be removed from pvp….
for me its not kittened because its super mega strong or smth, but the fact that it does neither require you to think, nor to know the game/ abilitys/ whatever, nor to have some mechanical skills to get quite a high reward out of it. its just… nothing you should want in a somewhat competitive pvp game….

choovanski.5462:

if you can’t kill someone with no stability, no stunbreaks and abysmal condition clear you need to reevaluate your play, or if your build just can’t do it let another member of the team take care of them.

Yup, I don’t have issues killing them on my cond eng at all. I would much rather face a turret eng vs a cele or cond one that knows what they are doing.

At the same time though, it does nothing to teach the player how to play an eng. No kits is blasphemy! For that reason I wouldn’t mind it getting nerfed. Seriously though, if you gave overcharged shot a tell and nerfed celes that would be enough imo.

I’d like to shift this discussion away from “Turret Engineers” and push it towards “Supply Crate” in general.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

I’d like to shift this discussion away from “Turret Engineers” and push it towards “Supply Crate” in general.

I think its fair to say that its a bigger issue overall. I’ve RARELY seen people hyper defend this other than on the note that the rest of the Engi elites are pretty meh and not very fun to use/not very interesting or practical.

Here’s to hoping for an f5 and some updated Engineer elities! Mortar Kit WUT?!

official.7362:

8 turrets 1 bird and 1 bunker engi is really a sight to see
dont even think about how good it is (which it is) its just the fact that you know hes doing Literally almost nothing himself in the fight

ele is also up there with engi

A team of bunkers holds points really well? Who would have thought?

Seriously though, I have never seen my engie’s turrets handle an attack all on their own when I hold a fort. Even when I overcharge them. Now if I’m knocking you off point, immobilization you there with my rifle’s net, and then use that jump stomp with the rifle followed by the shotgun blast…then yeah, perhaps my turret engie rocked you, but I also literally have every skill on cooldown. Hard to say I did nothing, even almost nothing. We are of course completely ignoring that turret placement makes a difference and I will be using those toolbelt skills if a turret dies.

You want a bunker to complain about? Minion master necromancer. When I run mm necro, I can almost afk in a point. All have to do is recast my minions as they die while spamming random staff skills everywhere and I’m fine. And if you are on a treb or skyhammer cannon, those minions are the best suit of armor in the game. Might as well have enabled god mode.

And how the heck are you saying ele is easy? OP perhaps, but the player is practically playing the piano to make that awesome happen.

If you join solo into (un-)ranked you usually can’t just outrotate the enemy engi, expecially if they have more than one.
You ever faced an enemy turret engi on khylo using the treb? – its a pain

The turrets can also contest the buffs on temple while the engi doesnt even have to be there!
Ant it takes ages to destroy all the turrets if they are placed propperly.

Plz fix this broken build!