Let’s not forget all those faster endurance regen traits. Before vigor = cap, so they were useless in 90% of cases. Now they’ll be able to stack with vigor and have some meaning.
It’s just going to make the lockdown gameplay even worse. They shouldn’t nerf it at all. It’s the only thing squishy classes like elementalist have.
Got problems if you cant live without dodging every 5s and dodging every 6.7s is death.
1. Ele needs to spend dodges on Evasive Arcana from time to time.
2. Try to play fresh air.
1. Dodges should be something that you spam
2. I do.
Even with perma vigor you cannot spam dodges. The mechanics of elemental attunement forced you to dodge to do other things, not only avoid damage, you should know that if you play ele. And you should also know that fresh air does depend on the vigor a lot.
It’s just going to make the lockdown gameplay even worse. They shouldn’t nerf it at all. It’s the only thing squishy classes like elementalist have.
Got problems if you cant live without dodging every 5s and dodging every 6.7s is death.
It really is an extremely large difference, you may look at your numbers and say 1.7 seconds difference isn’t a lot but I would say a more accurate way of viewing it is that your dodge cooldown has been increased by 33% which is massive. If you don’t think that is a big difference, how about we just increase the cooldown of all your skills by 33% since you know no big deal.
14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA
It’s just going to make the lockdown gameplay even worse. They shouldn’t nerf it at all. It’s the only thing squishy classes like elementalist have.
Got problems if you cant live without dodging every 5s and dodging every 6.7s is death.
It really is an extremely large difference, you may look at your numbers and say 1.7 seconds difference isn’t a lot but I would say a more accurate way of viewing it is that your dodge cooldown has been increased by 33% which is massive. If you don’t think that is a big difference, how about we just increase the cooldown of all your skills by 33% since you know no big deal.
Dodges were never meant to be spammed, it was to strong and made a load of trait useless, its better balanced now. The cooldown on dodges is meant to be 10s. With the change it actually doesnt have a huge impact and again its balanced to fit around traits and evasive play if you specc for it and how weakness works.
If they changes weakness to -100% endurance regen people would be more annoyed. This way is a lot better for a balance standpoint.
It’s kinda silly to nerf Vigor, yet buffing vigor on some classes, so the classes that really need that dodge got nerfed to ground, while the classes that can spam dodges can spam as much as they used to…
Still went down overall. Only one that really bothers me is the Engineer one, but I’m so done thinking about Engineer at this point…
I wouldn’t worry to much about Engineer dodges. Trust me, almost every Engineer using Tools will be taking Kinetic Charge over Adrenal Implant anyway.
It’s just going to make the lockdown gameplay even worse. They shouldn’t nerf it at all. It’s the only thing squishy classes like elementalist have.
Got problems if you cant live without dodging every 5s and dodging every 6.7s is death.
It really is an extremely large difference, you may look at your numbers and say 1.7 seconds difference isn’t a lot but I would say a more accurate way of viewing it is that your dodge cooldown has been increased by 33% which is massive. If you don’t think that is a big difference, how about we just increase the cooldown of all your skills by 33% since you know no big deal.
Dodges were never meant to be spammed, it was to strong and made a load of trait useless, its better balanced now. The cooldown on dodges is meant to be 10s. With the change it actually doesnt have a huge impact and again its balanced to fit around traits and evasive play if you specc for it and how weakness works.
If they changes weakness to -100% endurance regen people would be more annoyed. This way is a lot better for a balance standpoint.
The problem is I don’t think it’s balanced. If they build a class around having vigor and then just nerf it without giving the class anything else to compensate, how is that balance? I don’t see ANet nerfing base hp pools or armour and I’m pretty sure if they did, people would be unhappy. Just because one class has different survival mechanics, it doesn’t mean it’s okay to take it away.
Its a Boon.No class is built to have a constant upkeep of boons, they are a built/trait choice. Some have easier access but again its still a choice if you want to capitalize on that. It shouldn’t make traits useless not other counter mechanics. This way, mathematically , its not to different but has better balance with traits and weakness.
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
The nerf to vigor was justified, and reasonable. The lack of nerf to fire and air sigils is what makes this hard to take. If they nerfed fire and air, this change wouldn’t be a problem. Now I’m expecting burst wars 2 after this patch.
Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…
Yep, because that will help you so much in a teamfight when BA’s cd is not per target.
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…
Yep, because that will help you so much in a teamfight when BA’s cd is not per target.
It has still already worked for some people.. What do you want? An actual tanky Zerker? o.O Sheesh…
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…
Yep, because that will help you so much in a teamfight when BA’s cd is not per target.
It has still already worked for some people.. What do you want? An actual tanky Zerker? o.O Sheesh…
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…
Yep, because that will help you so much in a teamfight when BA’s cd is not per target.
It has still already worked for some people.. What do you want? An actual tanky Zerker? o.O Sheesh…
That’s why barely anyone runs this build?
It’ll get buffed (Including Fresh air makes a HUGE difference…) And lets be honest… Being forced into Water+Arcana was because the boon crutch made it powerful. I’m confident 666 or 6606 will be pretty good.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…
Yep, because that will help you so much in a teamfight when BA’s cd is not per target.
It has still already worked for some people.. What do you want? An actual tanky Zerker? o.O Sheesh…
That’s why barely anyone runs this build?
It’ll get buffed (Including Fresh air makes a HUGE difference…) And lets be honest… Being forced into Water+Arcana was because the boon crutch made it powerful. I’m confident 666 or 6606 will be pretty good.
Unless you are talking about a different fire air earth build, then that one is being murdered thanks to the complete removal of the fire shield on signet use trait which was the core aspect of the build. I am unfamiliar with any other builds that use similar traits without signets.
14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So BUFF the fresh air build then. A build being weak is no reason to change how an entire boon works.
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So BUFF the fresh air build then. A build being weak is no reason to change how an entire boon works.
Well, did they do it? That’s the point, they nerf vigor but give nothing to the builds that depend on it.
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So BUFF the fresh air build then. A build being weak is no reason to change how an entire boon works.
Well, did they do it? That’s the point, they nerf vigor but give nothing to the builds that depend on it.
No more icd on fresh air that is your buff…
14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So BUFF the fresh air build then. A build being weak is no reason to change how an entire boon works.
Well, did they do it? That’s the point, they nerf vigor but give nothing to the builds that depend on it.
No more icd on fresh air that is your buff…
That doesn’t help with survability and it’s not even good, it’s just a bad and stupid buff.
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So, run the Cinder ele build 66600 and take advantage of blind spam as your defense instead, while also getting to take Fresh air now. If people could make it work before, I don’t see how they couldn’t afterward…
Yep, because that will help you so much in a teamfight when BA’s cd is not per target.
It has still already worked for some people.. What do you want? An actual tanky Zerker? o.O Sheesh…
That’s why barely anyone runs this build?
It’ll get buffed (Including Fresh air makes a HUGE difference…) And lets be honest… Being forced into Water+Arcana was because the boon crutch made it powerful. I’m confident 666 or 6606 will be pretty good.
Unless you are talking about a different fire air earth build, then that one is being murdered thanks to the complete removal of the fire shield on signet use trait which was the core aspect of the build. I am unfamiliar with any other builds that use similar traits without signets.
You can achieve very high uptime still with Fire Aura on attune now, as well as -33% CDs on fire spells and leaping with earth. Not quite as brain dead but at least you gain fresh air with it. Or don’t use signers at all and go with water for cantrips.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Shouldn’t you start by nerfing the value to perhaps 75% and allow players “test” from there? Going from 100% to 50% seems a bit extreme does it not? Is the goal to butcher the value and steadily increase it to “work as intended” so people will not complain about vigor constantly being nerfed?
Because they wanted to give engis more dodges than other classe hence the 50% more endurence regeneration trait.
Shouldn’t you start by nerfing the value to perhaps 75% and allow players “test” from there? Going from 100% to 50% seems a bit extreme does it not? Is the goal to butcher the value and steadily increase it to “work as intended” so people will not complain about vigor constantly being nerfed?
Because they wanted to give engis more dodges than other classe hence the 50% more endurence regeneration trait.
you know warriors have a +40% endurance signet right? other classes also have endurance traits also.
. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria
Best change in the patch. Brainless dodge spam sucks
This ^.
The vigor change is one of the top 5 changes coming with the class balance. It will reduce the evade spam some builds can get. It will also make all those extra endurance traits/skills/food have a use in the game.
That would be okay if they actually buffed the passive defences of classes that depend on vigor, you know. But if they’re going to do this major nerf and it’ll be the only thing nerfed, what good is it going to do?
Classes that depend on vigor? Well maybe it is time to run a more defensive build. A nerf to builds that could run 100% offensive zerker and have insave survivability via evade spam.
Does fresh air have insane survability? Is it meta? Does it depend on vigor? No. No. Yes.
So BUFF the fresh air build then. A build being weak is no reason to change how an entire boon works.
Well, did they do it? That’s the point, they nerf vigor but give nothing to the builds that depend on it.
Lots of people in this thread too busy playing forumwars2 and not enough guildwars2… Id much rather take a hit to one of the many braindead passive traits which randomly proc than lose half the value that vigor provides. Look at the big picture, Anet is slowly stripping away the active part of the game and replacing it with passive play. I bet many of you who are for the change just think about all the times you were countered by a dodge and then think that a vigor nerf will solve your problems. Oh, you think so? Maybe you should re evaluate how much the vigor nerf would “help” you win fights after you read up on all the new passive traits which are going to destroy you. Next patch youre going to vs builds where your opponent could potentially be dumb as a sack of potatoes and he’ll still beat ya due to his “pro” passive skillz.
Shouldn’t you start by nerfing the value to perhaps 75% and allow players “test” from there? Going from 100% to 50% seems a bit extreme does it not? Is the goal to butcher the value and steadily increase it to “work as intended” so people will not complain about vigor constantly being nerfed?
Because they wanted to give engis more dodges than other classe hence the 50% more endurence regeneration trait.
you know warriors have a +40% endurance signet right? other classes also have endurance traits also.
Shouldn’t you start by nerfing the value to perhaps 75% and allow players “test” from there? Going from 100% to 50% seems a bit extreme does it not? Is the goal to butcher the value and steadily increase it to “work as intended” so people will not complain about vigor constantly being nerfed?
Because they wanted to give engis more dodges than other classe hence the 50% more endurence regeneration trait.
LOL…
The vigor nerf and speedy kit changes directly nerfs how much an engi can dodge.
They will dodge a hell of a lot less post patch.
Its not cumulative, so engis will NOT get +100% endurance regen.
And their access to vigor has been nerfed substantially.
Also that trait always existed.
Retriever Iiat – Asura Engineer
Private retriever of runaway NPCs
Mistband[MIST] – PVP Training guild EU
