Guild Wars 2

So I heard the Mesmers in sPvP top teams (in EU scene) are moving to Necromancers. Mesmers continues to get nerfed, what is wrong with ANET?

Yeah the recent changes to their traits made them a lot less viable. They still play pretty much the same, but they have very little access to condi removal unless they spec into cleansing shatter. If they moved some of the traits around a bit, this class could be a very good counter meta.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Cleanse-Shatter/first#post2501921

I’ve been noticing this as well. I actually think this is detrimental to the game’s success as Mesmers are really fun to watch. It’s a shame there will (probably) be no portal or IoL plays at PAX, as I think for a new viewer a clutch portal play would be really exciting.

This meta will normalize when necro is nerfed properly so I i would not worry to much then the only problem will be engi nades again.

No condition removal/stability, melee burst (So you’re going to explode/run away forever/sent flying like a ping pong ball all over the place as soon as you step near target) and low hp on the only one viable tpvp build (Shatter) made mesmer useless…even considering portal and illusion of life they’re just out, free kill for every necro, bomb engi or s/d thief passing by…at the current sotg the only way is reroll, every other option (Condition for example) is not viable, or at least not as viable as other classes…no reason to take a condition mesmer when you can get a necro or engi instead doing the job far better without dieing 24\7 with 327 conditions up all time or oneshotted by every burst while cc/kd/feared..

Personally, I feel like Mesmers are still viable.

The problem is people get to cushy playing a certain playstyle. When it’s disrupted, they would rather cry foul and switch classes than sit down and work it out.

IDK, instant gratification is strong in this community.

Defektive.7283:

Personally, I feel like Mesmers are still viable.

The problem is people get to cushy playing a certain playstyle. When it’s disrupted, they would rather cry foul and switch classes than sit down and work it out.

IDK, instant gratification is strong in this community.

You… have gained awesome points.

Defektive.7283:

Personally, I feel like Mesmers are still viable.

The problem is people get to cushy playing a certain playstyle. When it’s disrupted, they would rather cry foul and switch classes than sit down and work it out.

IDK, instant gratification is strong in this community.

Already tried full condition, sort of condition-bunker, phantasm (Already useless and then nerfed)…even a troll confusion spam build with glamour skills and lots of cond removal…nothing worked, at least not good enough to get a spot into a good team, whatever you can try outside shatter someone can do it better than mesmer..side point is spirit ranger’s territory, condition dmg is necro’s, bunker is guardian’s, assaulter is bomb engi’s with s/d-d/p thief and valkyrie ele roaming…nothing else to do with mesmer, classic spot was side point’s defender…vs bomb engi or a necro spamming fear, conditions and kitten everywhere? Not possible…at all..if you spec for surviving @ side you’re gonna deal no dmg at all, so why not getting a spirit ranger that is almost unkillable 1vs1 with a decent dmg too? Mesmer is not dead, you can still kill stuff in hotzerg, it’s simply out from tpvp meta cause in a point control game you can’t go on point without being melted by condition spam all over the place…if xeph and helseth already rerolled there must be a reason..

Mesmers are good but not viable. The meta atm doesn’t allow them to be.

until there are classes that can press 1 2 3 4 5 switch weapon 1 2 3 4 5 and put out 100000 aoe conditions mesmers will be on the shelf

Let’s be fair, the meta has been around barely two weeks ish?

I have a sneaking suspicion people did this when having a conversation with their team:

Convo-——-
Mesmer: Guys let’s try a few different strategies since Burst is difficult for me right now. What if I played a far point bunker with Portal so I could easily get in an out of a fight as well as support team transitions? I could basically be unkillable, and if they did reserve 2+ people I could portal out.

Instant Gratification Guy 1: OR, or, HEAR ME OUT11!11!. Roll Necromancer. That way we can have two necromancers doing the exact same thing and bringing no new utility to the team fight.

Instant Gratification Guy 2: GENIUS!

Mesmer: But fellas we’ve only tried a couple new strats with a Mesmer, why are we abandoning it so quickly?

Instant Gratification Guy 3: Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

IMO: The meta is being dictated by people who don’t want to try, but rather would be a lemming and take easy street.

Defektive.7283:

Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

More likely because you can’t be as strong as a necro on condition/fear spam, as tough as a spirit ranger or guardian (Considering all mesmer’s escapes, from stealth to distorsion/ bf, make you lose point) as good as bomb engi @ far and as fast and reliable as ele and thief @ roaming and let’s say not as annoying as permastun hammer warriors…whaterver you try someone can do it better, so there’s no reason to keep playing mesmer in tourney. And, as i said above, already tried something like 5 or 6 different specs with different roles…going nowhere…

Lately, the word “meta” has made me want to punch a few walls. People are obsessed with it.

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

More likely because you can’t be as strong as a necro on condition/fear spam, as tough as a spirit ranger or guardian, as good as bomb engi @ far and as fast and reliable as ele and thief @ roaming and let’s say not as annoying as permastun hammer warriors…whaterver you try someone can do it better, so there’s no reason to keep playing mesmer in tourney. And, as i said above, already tried something like 5 or 6 different specs with different roles…going nowhere…

Time to roll that backpoint phantasm Mesmer.

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

More likely because you can’t be as strong as a necro on condition/fear spam, as tough as a spirit ranger or guardian, as good as bomb engi @ far and as fast and reliable as ele and thief @ roaming and let’s say not as annoying as permastun hammer warriors…whaterver you try someone can do it better, so there’s no reason to keep playing mesmer in tourney

Portal play can be a game changing advantage.

If a team ran an aggresive bunker mesmer instead of a Spirit Ranger they could do slick things as bate an enemy to mid, portal to far point. Clobber the guy one, leave their bunker mesmer on point as the team transitions back to mid.

I keep bringing up Bunker Mesmer because I’ve seen some slick Bunker builds out there from people like Zeromis. It may take forever to kill something as one, but they are sometimes near unkillable if played correctly. Put one on a far point either decapped or capped in your favor, and it isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

Dirame.8521:

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

More likely because you can’t be as strong as a necro on condition/fear spam, as tough as a spirit ranger or guardian, as good as bomb engi @ far and as fast and reliable as ele and thief @ roaming and let’s say not as annoying as permastun hammer warriors…whaterver you try someone can do it better, so there’s no reason to keep playing mesmer in tourney. And, as i said above, already tried something like 5 or 6 different specs with different roles…going nowhere…

Time to roll that backpoint phantasm Mesmer.

Can give it a try for sure…link?

I have run shatter, confusion, phantasm, condition, bunker, and anti condition mesmer. Ifthere is a mesmer bhold that somewhat seemed to make sense. I tried to make it work. With the insane Condi spam meta there isn’t anything a mesmer can do that can’t be done better by another class.

jportell.2197:

I have run shatter, confusion, phantasm, condition, bunker, and anti condition mesmer. Ifthere is a mesmer bhold that somewhat seemed to make sense. I tried to make it work. With the insane Condi spam meta there isn’t anything a mesmer can do that can’t be done better by another class.

Have you be running it with a team whose actively trying to make it work. Or SoloQ.

Defektive.7283:

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

More likely because you can’t be as strong as a necro on condition/fear spam, as tough as a spirit ranger or guardian, as good as bomb engi @ far and as fast and reliable as ele and thief @ roaming and let’s say not as annoying as permastun hammer warriors…whaterver you try someone can do it better, so there’s no reason to keep playing mesmer in tourney

Portal play can be a game changing advantage.

If a team ran an aggresive bunker mesmer instead of a Spirit Ranger they could do slick things as bate an enemy to mid, portal to far point. Clobber the guy one, leave their bunker mesmer on point as the team transitions back to mid.

I keep bringing up Bunker Mesmer because I’ve seen some slick Bunker builds out there from people like Zeromis. It may take forever to kill something as one, but they are sometimes near unkillable if played correctly. Put one on a far point either decapped or capped in your favor, and it isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

Bunker mesmer isnt as good because our bonuses and boons for bunkering come from stealth. I’ve run a PU bunker build and sure you can sit on a point while three people try killing you. But once they get wise to your roll as nothing more than trolling. Your roll on the team is pretty much nullified

jportell.2197:

Defektive.7283:

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

More likely because you can’t be as strong as a necro on condition/fear spam, as tough as a spirit ranger or guardian, as good as bomb engi @ far and as fast and reliable as ele and thief @ roaming and let’s say not as annoying as permastun hammer warriors…whaterver you try someone can do it better, so there’s no reason to keep playing mesmer in tourney

Portal play can be a game changing advantage.

If a team ran an aggresive bunker mesmer instead of a Spirit Ranger they could do slick things as bate an enemy to mid, portal to far point. Clobber the guy one, leave their bunker mesmer on point as the team transitions back to mid.

I keep bringing up Bunker Mesmer because I’ve seen some slick Bunker builds out there from people like Zeromis. It may take forever to kill something as one, but they are sometimes near unkillable if played correctly. Put one on a far point either decapped or capped in your favor, and it isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

Bunker mesmer isnt as good because our bonuses and boons for bunkering come from stealth. I’ve run a PU bunker build and sure you can sit on a point while three people try killing you. But once they get wise to your roll as nothing more than trolling. Your roll on the team is pretty much nullified

agreed it’s very trolly, but if you can do that while keeping a point decapped in favor of your team, it’s a very effective troll.

I also agree the stealth issue is of concern.

Overall I feel like there’s a lot of options out there that people aren’t trying because they feel outlandish.

It’s easier to stick to the status quo than it is to try new things. And I feel like a lot of ‘good’ players switch classes quickly because they feel it’s the only way to stay competitive. But I also feel that’s a disservice to the community as well as themselves.

Defektive.7283:

jportell.2197:

I have run shatter, confusion, phantasm, condition, bunker, and anti condition mesmer. Ifthere is a mesmer bhold that somewhat seemed to make sense. I tried to make it work. With the insane Condi spam meta there isn’t anything a mesmer can do that can’t be done better by another class.

Have you be running it with a team whose actively trying to make it work. Or SoloQ.

A team that actively tried making it work our bunker ele calls me “the best mesmer in the game” which I know isn’t true but it is a testament to the fact that I know my way around this class. There is just so much more that my bunker engi can bring to a team through the tons of blast finishers and aoe healing. If my mesmer wanted to aoe heal the team for a similar amount it would be sitting there shouting “agony torment pain” for 2.75s whilst being a sitting duck.

jportell.2197:

Defektive.7283:

jportell.2197:

I have run shatter, confusion, phantasm, condition, bunker, and anti condition mesmer. Ifthere is a mesmer bhold that somewhat seemed to make sense. I tried to make it work. With the insane Condi spam meta there isn’t anything a mesmer can do that can’t be done better by another class.

Have you be running it with a team whose actively trying to make it work. Or SoloQ.

A team that actively tried making it work our bunker ele calls me “the best mesmer in the game” which I know isn’t true but it is a testament to the fact that I know my way around this class. There is just so much more that my bunker engi can bring to a team through the tons of blast finishers and aoe healing. If my mesmer wanted to aoe heal the team for a similar amount it would be sitting there shouting “agony torment pain” for 2.75s whilst being a sitting duck.

you and Zeromis should get together, he’s come up with a few crafty build concepts I’m sure he’d like to see put to a good team test.

shimmerless.4560:

bunker mes would work if we could cycle stealth and still cap so long as there’s no hostiles on point

I tried it. I was running Pu perma protection before the buff and its great for 1v3 nd not dying but without protection you become about as squishy as a zerker but nowhere nearly as threatening. So to be survivable you need the stealth but to win the match you need to hold the point. Its two opposing processes.

Defektive.7283:

jportell.2197:

Defektive.7283:

jportell.2197:

I have run shatter, confusion, phantasm, condition, bunker, and anti condition mesmer. Ifthere is a mesmer bhold that somewhat seemed to make sense. I tried to make it work. With the insane Condi spam meta there isn’t anything a mesmer can do that can’t be done better by another class.

Have you be running it with a team whose actively trying to make it work. Or SoloQ.

A team that actively tried making it work our bunker ele calls me “the best mesmer in the game” which I know isn’t true but it is a testament to the fact that I know my way around this class. There is just so much more that my bunker engi can bring to a team through the tons of blast finishers and aoe healing. If my mesmer wanted to aoe heal the team for a similar amount it would be sitting there shouting “agony torment pain” for 2.75s whilst being a sitting duck.

you and Zeromis should get together, he’s come up with a few crafty build concepts I’m sure he’d like to see put to a good team test.

No clue who that is but I imagine either a PU build which is something I’ve messed with til I was blue in the face or phantasmal defender which is great for defense but unlike stone spirit which gives the entire team protection with no target it requires one. So it is less reliable and can be blinded/invulned not to mention the fact that it is way less survivable and vengeful images got nerfed into nothingness which was a bunker mesmersoonly reliable source of dps.

jportell.2197:

Defektive.7283:

jportell.2197:

Defektive.7283:

jportell.2197:

I have run shatter, confusion, phantasm, condition, bunker, and anti condition mesmer. Ifthere is a mesmer bhold that somewhat seemed to make sense. I tried to make it work. With the insane Condi spam meta there isn’t anything a mesmer can do that can’t be done better by another class.

Have you be running it with a team whose actively trying to make it work. Or SoloQ.

A team that actively tried making it work our bunker ele calls me “the best mesmer in the game” which I know isn’t true but it is a testament to the fact that I know my way around this class. There is just so much more that my bunker engi can bring to a team through the tons of blast finishers and aoe healing. If my mesmer wanted to aoe heal the team for a similar amount it would be sitting there shouting “agony torment pain” for 2.75s whilst being a sitting duck.

you and Zeromis should get together, he’s come up with a few crafty build concepts I’m sure he’d like to see put to a good team test.

No clue who that is but I imagine either a PU build which is something I’ve messed with til I was blue in the face or phantasmal defender which is great for defense but unlike stone spirit which gives the entire team protection with no target it requires one. So it is less reliable and can be blinded/invulned not to mention the fact that it is way less survivable and vengeful images got nerfed into nothingness which was a bunker mesmersoonly reliable source of dps.

Zeromis is a really great mesmer, one of the finest I’ve had the pleasure of playing with.

He’s worked in some great damage to a bunker build at one point and could easily 1v1 me (extremely frustrating). Like I said, two heads are better than one – should get together and see what you could come up with.

That’s the fun of innovating right?

Defektive.7283:

jportell.2197:

Defektive.7283:

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

More likely because you can’t be as strong as a necro on condition/fear spam, as tough as a spirit ranger or guardian, as good as bomb engi @ far and as fast and reliable as ele and thief @ roaming and let’s say not as annoying as permastun hammer warriors…whaterver you try someone can do it better, so there’s no reason to keep playing mesmer in tourney

Portal play can be a game changing advantage.

If a team ran an aggresive bunker mesmer instead of a Spirit Ranger they could do slick things as bate an enemy to mid, portal to far point. Clobber the guy one, leave their bunker mesmer on point as the team transitions back to mid.

I keep bringing up Bunker Mesmer because I’ve seen some slick Bunker builds out there from people like Zeromis. It may take forever to kill something as one, but they are sometimes near unkillable if played correctly. Put one on a far point either decapped or capped in your favor, and it isn’t going anywhere any time soon.

Bunker mesmer isnt as good because our bonuses and boons for bunkering come from stealth. I’ve run a PU bunker build and sure you can sit on a point while three people try killing you. But once they get wise to your roll as nothing more than trolling. Your roll on the team is pretty much nullified

agreed it’s very trolly, but if you can do that while keeping a point decapped in favor of your team, it’s a very effective troll.

I also agree the stealth issue is of concern.

Overall I feel like there’s a lot of options out there that people aren’t trying because they feel outlandish.

It’s easier to stick to the status quo than it is to try new things. And I feel like a lot of ‘good’ players switch classes quickly because they feel it’s the only way to stay competitive. But I also feel that’s a disservice to the community as well as themselves.

So if you make use of your stealths + blurred frenzy + distortions and if add in some ccs from the enemy which leave you punted/rooted you off the point, you basically allowed them to get a full cap? Makes no sense to me.

Clutch plays with portal are still viable but it requires first of all, a full group and a very good coordination to have everyone at the right place to cross, drop the skills to kill the bunker at far point and then make back in time to still have mid decapped (if you leave your bunker there alone against 4 people, he will die and you’re in a huge disadvantage. And all of that for what? A mesmer defending far point will either die or get decapped as i explained earlier, he has no mobility to disengage at all and will most likely die (especially since S/D thiefs are out of hand right now) while trying to escape.

You’ve probably fought against me, i’m Ninesevensix mesmer and the only semi-decent way to play a mesmer is still GS/Staff with halting strike and a regular shatter build with blink to try save your skin when you can teleport the kitten out (keep in forest for example). Still terrible compared with everything else..

I’ve tried from cleansing on shatter, to have cleansing mantra and none of them work simple because: For shatter to be effective you have to burst with it… its not what you want you to cleanse condis… since those are being spammed m-i-n-d-l-e-s-s-l-y so even if you remove the initial burst you’re gone in the second one if they add in a daze or stun, you’re simple gone. The mantra cleanse gives you the control to cleanse when you really need to do but its kittened how long the pre-casting is which everyone can interrupt you since the animation is that obvious.

If you want a condi mesmer kitten that, just take a spirit ranger with more condi damage that a mesmer will ever get, more toughness, heal and a ress, not mentioning the buffs and support.

If I remember in game ill message him some people are super protective of builds. However with all my experimenting and 4 mesmers that rotate through our team we haven’t found anything that can make mesmers viable in this meta. Maybe if we got more meaningful Condi removal. But even then just maybe

Quite honestly i don’t think any of this will be necessary as long as they nerf the condition damage, or nerf the easy ways to get them all and just spam them at will.

I suggested a while ago to make conditions cancel each other so thakittens not just AoE spam and win… so you’ll remove burning if you add in chill for example. Or something like that..

Also trust me, i’m sure TCG and TP tried to make it work with mesmers, and very good ones… but you saw the end result didn’t you?

Before EU PAX, TP was always trying their normal setup and getting destroyed by not so good groups but they’d roll with the right “meta” comp and destroy them… trust me when i say that they really TRIED to make it work, but all the risk just does not pay off. So in order to stay competitive you have to reroll.

Phantaram.1265:

Everything that is powerful currently in the meta completely owns mesmer. I used to be able to protect xeph from the horrors that tried to charge him but it was useless, the horrors are now too much, so he switched to s/d thief. He then tried to stop the horrors from killing me on my ele but that was also futile. So now I’m a necro. We joined the horrors.

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Personally, I feel like Mesmers are still viable.

The problem is people get to cushy playing a certain playstyle. When it’s disrupted, they would rather cry foul and switch classes than sit down and work it out.

IDK, instant gratification is strong in this community.

Already tried full condition, sort of condition-bunker, phantasm (Already useless and then nerfed)…even a troll confusion spam build with glamour skills and lots of cond removal…nothing worked, at least not good enough to get a spot into a good team, whatever you can try outside shatter someone can do it better than mesmer..side point is spirit ranger’s territory, condition dmg is necro’s, bunker is guardian’s, assaulter is bomb engi’s with s/d-d/p thief and valkyrie ele roaming…nothing else to do with mesmer, classic spot was side point’s defender…vs bomb engi or a necro spamming fear, conditions and kitten everywhere? Not possible…at all..if you spec for surviving @ side you’re gonna deal no dmg at all, so why not getting a spirit ranger that is almost unkillable 1vs1 with a decent dmg too? Mesmer is not dead, you can still kill stuff in hotzerg, it’s simply out from tpvp meta cause in a point control game you can’t go on point without being melted by condition spam all over the place…if xeph and helseth already rerolled there must be a reason..

The question I have to ask is, does viable now mean being the best at a position/job on a team? If that’s the case, we’re always going to be addressing a profession as unviable as a team only has 5 spots to fill with 8 professions to fill them.

Viable means that it can fit into a team comp and not need babysat to survive. This used to be the case with necros and warriors now it is the case with mesmers.

jportell.2197:

Viable means that it can fit into a team comp and not need babysat to survive. This used to be the case with necros and warriors now it is the case with mesmers.

Pretty sure the game was intended so that one class was needed to be babysat by another. In a circle, for all 5 classes.

AKA teamwork.

Having everyone be self sufficient is most likely detrimental to the game as a whole.

Defektive.7283:

Having everyone be self sufficient is most likely detrimental to the game as a whole.

Tell that to necros, spirit rangers, engineers, S/D thiefs and guardians.

Certain builds may need babysat IE a healer running around with ur burster or vice versa. But entire classes no matter the build needing babysat is a show the class is no longer viable.

saVdoom.2067:

Defektive.7283:

Having everyone be self sufficient is most likely detrimental to the game as a whole.

Tell that to necros, spirit rangers, engineers, S/D thiefs and guardians.

Which is what everyone is complaining about and is exactly why they should be toned down to be less self sufficient.

Pyriall.5027:

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Personally, I feel like Mesmers are still viable.

The problem is people get to cushy playing a certain playstyle. When it’s disrupted, they would rather cry foul and switch classes than sit down and work it out.

IDK, instant gratification is strong in this community.

Already tried full condition, sort of condition-bunker, phantasm (Already useless and then nerfed)…even a troll confusion spam build with glamour skills and lots of cond removal…nothing worked, at least not good enough to get a spot into a good team, whatever you can try outside shatter someone can do it better than mesmer..side point is spirit ranger’s territory, condition dmg is necro’s, bunker is guardian’s, assaulter is bomb engi’s with s/d-d/p thief and valkyrie ele roaming…nothing else to do with mesmer, classic spot was side point’s defender…vs bomb engi or a necro spamming fear, conditions and kitten everywhere? Not possible…at all..if you spec for surviving @ side you’re gonna deal no dmg at all, so why not getting a spirit ranger that is almost unkillable 1vs1 with a decent dmg too? Mesmer is not dead, you can still kill stuff in hotzerg, it’s simply out from tpvp meta cause in a point control game you can’t go on point without being melted by condition spam all over the place…if xeph and helseth already rerolled there must be a reason..

The question I have to ask is, does viable now mean being the best at a position/job on a team? If that’s the case, we’re always going to be addressing a profession as unviable as a team only has 5 spots to fill with 8 professions to fill them.

’
Not necessarily “best”, but at least comparable. If in all your roles, another profession is just flat out better at it… in the world of competitive esports, minmaxing is key… you will get pushed out of the meta.

You either have to excel or compete with a viable niche role. That niche has to create a reasonable impact. Something that makes your profession “worth taking”.

Jasher.6580:

Pyriall.5027:

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Personally, I feel like Mesmers are still viable.

The problem is people get to cushy playing a certain playstyle. When it’s disrupted, they would rather cry foul and switch classes than sit down and work it out.

IDK, instant gratification is strong in this community.

Already tried full condition, sort of condition-bunker, phantasm (Already useless and then nerfed)…even a troll confusion spam build with glamour skills and lots of cond removal…nothing worked, at least not good enough to get a spot into a good team, whatever you can try outside shatter someone can do it better than mesmer..side point is spirit ranger’s territory, condition dmg is necro’s, bunker is guardian’s, assaulter is bomb engi’s with s/d-d/p thief and valkyrie ele roaming…nothing else to do with mesmer, classic spot was side point’s defender…vs bomb engi or a necro spamming fear, conditions and kitten everywhere? Not possible…at all..if you spec for surviving @ side you’re gonna deal no dmg at all, so why not getting a spirit ranger that is almost unkillable 1vs1 with a decent dmg too? Mesmer is not dead, you can still kill stuff in hotzerg, it’s simply out from tpvp meta cause in a point control game you can’t go on point without being melted by condition spam all over the place…if xeph and helseth already rerolled there must be a reason..

The question I have to ask is, does viable now mean being the best at a position/job on a team? If that’s the case, we’re always going to be addressing a profession as unviable as a team only has 5 spots to fill with 8 professions to fill them.

’
Not necessarily “best”, but at least comparable. If in all your roles, another profession is just flat out better at it… in the world of competitive esports, minmaxing is key… you will get pushed out of the meta.

You either have to excel or compete with a viable niche role. That niche has to create a reasonable impact. Something that makes your profession “worth taking”.

Maybe we can break down official roles on a team and rank the professions against those roles? It would be interesting to see, based on what you just wrote, how viable each profession is based on role. Something similar to Defektives post about profession rating.

Defektive.7283:

Personally, I feel like Mesmers are still viable.

The problem is people get to cushy playing a certain playstyle. When it’s disrupted, they would rather cry foul and switch classes than sit down and work it out.

IDK, instant gratification is strong in this community.

This is so very true. If people need proof look at Ranger – after the major balance patch people were saying Rangers were done and had no place on a team. Two weeks later (until it really hit meta, a bunch of us switched to spirits right away… and got laughed at…) we have the rise of the Spirit Ranger which seems to be a current staple in any team comp.

Just takes time to readjust and find that new niche build for the class and make it work in your team.

Pyriall.5027:

Archaon.6245:

Defektive.7283:

Personally, I feel like Mesmers are still viable.

The problem is people get to cushy playing a certain playstyle. When it’s disrupted, they would rather cry foul and switch classes than sit down and work it out.

IDK, instant gratification is strong in this community.

Already tried full condition, sort of condition-bunker, phantasm (Already useless and then nerfed)…even a troll confusion spam build with glamour skills and lots of cond removal…nothing worked, at least not good enough to get a spot into a good team, whatever you can try outside shatter someone can do it better than mesmer..side point is spirit ranger’s territory, condition dmg is necro’s, bunker is guardian’s, assaulter is bomb engi’s with s/d-d/p thief and valkyrie ele roaming…nothing else to do with mesmer, classic spot was side point’s defender…vs bomb engi or a necro spamming fear, conditions and kitten everywhere? Not possible…at all..if you spec for surviving @ side you’re gonna deal no dmg at all, so why not getting a spirit ranger that is almost unkillable 1vs1 with a decent dmg too? Mesmer is not dead, you can still kill stuff in hotzerg, it’s simply out from tpvp meta cause in a point control game you can’t go on point without being melted by condition spam all over the place…if xeph and helseth already rerolled there must be a reason..

The question I have to ask is, does viable now mean being the best at a position/job on a team? If that’s the case, we’re always going to be addressing a profession as unviable as a team only has 5 spots to fill with 8 professions to fill them.

Time for some 8v8 GvG!!

Defektive.7283:

Let’s be fair, the meta has been around barely two weeks ish?

I have a sneaking suspicion people did this when having a conversation with their team:

---

Convo-——-
Mesmer: Guys let’s try a few different strategies since Burst is difficult for me right now. What if I played a far point bunker with Portal so I could easily get in an out of a fight as well as support team transitions? I could basically be unkillable, and if they did reserve 2+ people I could portal out.

Instant Gratification Guy 1: OR, or, HEAR ME OUT11!11!. Roll Necromancer. That way we can have two necromancers doing the exact same thing and bringing no new utility to the team fight.

Instant Gratification Guy 2: GENIUS!

Mesmer: But fellas we’ve only tried a couple new strats with a Mesmer, why are we abandoning it so quickly?

Instant Gratification Guy 3: Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

---

IMO: The meta is being dictated by people who don’t want to try, but rather would be a lemming and take easy street.

The nerf making distortion not count towards point capping/holding made mesmer bunkers pretty inviable, they’re very reliant on it to survive and two full distortions will get the point neutralized under you. Also mesmer while still good simply does not have proper condi removal, too few options in builds that aren’t strong enough.

Julius.1094:

Defektive.7283:

Let’s be fair, the meta has been around barely two weeks ish?

I have a sneaking suspicion people did this when having a conversation with their team:

---

Convo-——-
Mesmer: Guys let’s try a few different strategies since Burst is difficult for me right now. What if I played a far point bunker with Portal so I could easily get in an out of a fight as well as support team transitions? I could basically be unkillable, and if they did reserve 2+ people I could portal out.

Instant Gratification Guy 1: OR, or, HEAR ME OUT11!11!. Roll Necromancer. That way we can have two necromancers doing the exact same thing and bringing no new utility to the team fight.

Instant Gratification Guy 2: GENIUS!

Mesmer: But fellas we’ve only tried a couple new strats with a Mesmer, why are we abandoning it so quickly?

Instant Gratification Guy 3: Because we’re lazy and Necromancers are strong.

---

IMO: The meta is being dictated by people who don’t want to try, but rather would be a lemming and take easy street.

The nerf making distortion not count towards point capping/holding made mesmer bunkers pretty inviable, they’re very reliant on it to survive and two full distortions will get the point neutralized under you. Also mesmer while still good simply does not have proper condi removal, too few options in builds that aren’t strong enough.

Good point. Maybe that is a primary reason that bunker Mesmers havn’t been seen much of.

Stealth mechanics are to difficult to balance since so many classes have it now.

The best part is the way everyone uses meta is wrong, but I don’t expect these kids on the forums to understand anything lol. They see another kid use it then from then on its baa meta baa baa.

It was used properly when talking about wvw early on because at that time exploitation was the strategy for the top servers.

Now apart from the rare speed hacker every thing is legit so it’s just strategy apart from team speak, but I am sure everyone agrees that voice coms are legit even though its not included in the game world. If it was we would still be using team speak/vent/mumble anyway cause it allows us to control the environment and volume lvs. Just as in wow.

Reply to parisalchuk:
Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.

Thesilentflute.8761:

The best part is the way everyone uses meta is wrong, but I don’t expect these kids on the forums to understand anything lol. They see another kid use it then from then on its baa meta baa baa.

It was used properly when talking about wvw early one because at that time exploitation was the strategy for the top servers.

Meta builds are the current believed ‘optimum’ builds. Please, do explain how we are using that term incorrectly.

Give it some time. Once people start building counter comps to the meta, perhaps mesmers will be in the counter-counter comps.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Give it some time. Once people start building counter comps to the meta, perhaps mesmers will be in the counter-counter comps.

Lol. Before this last patch with loads of adjustments, warriors and necromansers were also not part of the meta… and it was “given some time”… and they were still not viable in the meta… until a significant patch hit it, changing some specs and abilities.

Regarding the spirit ranger, if you check patch notes they were significantly buffed but the BM spec was still better, until they got nerfed. Then it was a normal change to the spirit spec.

Now the reason why mesmers are not viable atm, i wouldn’t say because they are bad or anything like thakittens just that most other classes have access to evades/conditions far to easy in spammable cooldowns. If you fix that, i’m sure they’ll be back to be viable.

saVdoom.2067:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Give it some time. Once people start building counter comps to the meta, perhaps mesmers will be in the counter-counter comps.

Lol. Before this last patch with loads of adjustments, warriors and necromansers were also not part of the meta… and it was “given some time”… and they were still not viable in the meta… until a significant patch hit it, changing some specs and abilities.

Regarding the spirit ranger, if you check patch notes they were significantly buffed but the BM spec was still better, until they got nerfed. Then it was a normal change to the spirit spec.

Warriors are still not apart of the meta btw.

Defektive.7283:

saVdoom.2067:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Give it some time. Once people start building counter comps to the meta, perhaps mesmers will be in the counter-counter comps.

Lol. Before this last patch with loads of adjustments, warriors and necromansers were also not part of the meta… and it was “given some time”… and they were still not viable in the meta… until a significant patch hit it, changing some specs and abilities.

Regarding the spirit ranger, if you check patch notes they were significantly buffed but the BM spec was still better, until they got nerfed. Then it was a normal change to the spirit spec.

Warriors are still not apart of the meta btw.

Exactly, but still rather more “viable” then mesmers in a team comp due their perma stun/daze spec being more useful to teams. Plus berserk stance.

And people will still say “give it time for warriors…” ?

saVdoom.2067:

Defektive.7283:

saVdoom.2067:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Give it some time. Once people start building counter comps to the meta, perhaps mesmers will be in the counter-counter comps.

Lol. Before this last patch with loads of adjustments, warriors and necromansers were also not part of the meta… and it was “given some time”… and they were still not viable in the meta… until a significant patch hit it, changing some specs and abilities.

Regarding the spirit ranger, if you check patch notes they were significantly buffed but the BM spec was still better, until they got nerfed. Then it was a normal change to the spirit spec.

Warriors are still not apart of the meta btw.

Exactly, but still rather more “viable” then mesmers in a team comp due their perma stun/daze spec being more useful to teams. Plus berserk stance.

And people will still say “give it time for warriors…” ?

I guess you could say that, but most people will just say ‘bring an engi or necromancer’ instead of a CC Warrior.

Trust me, even my team has a hard time validating my existing. I’ve changed my build and play style a number of times to meet their expectations.

saVdoom.2067:

Defektive.7283:

saVdoom.2067:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Give it some time. Once people start building counter comps to the meta, perhaps mesmers will be in the counter-counter comps.

Lol. Before this last patch with loads of adjustments, warriors and necromansers were also not part of the meta… and it was “given some time”… and they were still not viable in the meta… until a significant patch hit it, changing some specs and abilities.

Regarding the spirit ranger, if you check patch notes they were significantly buffed but the BM spec was still better, until they got nerfed. Then it was a normal change to the spirit spec.

Warriors are still not apart of the meta btw.

Exactly, but still rather more “viable” then mesmers in a team comp due their perma stun/daze spec being more useful to teams. Plus berserk stance.

And people will still say “give it time for warriors…” ?

And in the glorious game we always compare GW2 to… GW1… many classes were out of meta for long periods of time before being brought back into power. But no no, lets only talk about the good things about GW1’s pvp and how its so much better then a completely different game known as GW2.

Mesmer are absurdly op.
Still very good and very viable.
Virtually invincible.

JETWING.2759:

Mesmer are absurdly op.
Still very good and very viable.
Virtually invincible.

You’re either a new and inexperienced player or a troll. My gut feeling is telling me to lean more towards the latter.