Guild Wars 2

Weapon swapping before combat was kind of OP, especially for an elementalist.

I had practically mastered mostly everything there was to the elementalist, but I wanted a further challenge. Weapon swapping in combat right before initiation brought open tier levels of skill to be achieved, and was not easy to perform.

For instance, my favorite starting combo was the following, during the first 10 seconds before gate opened:
Staff>Earth 2 >Earth 3 (speed buff) with zephyrs boon>Air>Air4>Air5>Equip dagger>Air3>Equip scepter>Fire>Fire3>Dagger>Fire3>Focus>Fire5>Staff>Reverse 180>Fire4>Dagger+dagger>Air>Ride the lightning
Yes it was extremely complicated to do this and required a large amount of skill to do right but the results were awesome=P

Then there was my favorite, the S/D and D/D combo intiation
It required precise timing, execution, and either an immobilzied enemy/ignorant enemy/timed ambush.

Heavy burster
Scepter/DaggerTarget>Fire2>Fire3>Equip Dagger>Fire3>Fire4 (double might stacking)>Fire5
Free cast fire 2 and 3 under scepter/dagger at a line of sight choke point was extremely fun to do too. Also forced enemies to blow off a dodge before the battle started.

There were other combos too
The common swap
Scepter/Dagger>Earth>Earth2>Equip dagger

Big opener
Staff>Earth>Earth2>Earth3>Dagger+Dagger>Earth5>Lightning flash

The ultimate weapon healer
Staff>Water>Any AoE heal spells>Scepter+Dagger>Fire>Freecast fire2 and fire 3 onto water field>Dagger+dagger>Initiate

Then there was the tricky tactic that required perfect execution and timing when weapon swapping:

Dodge roll>Weapon swap before the dodge roll ends

There were lots of other combos, but these were my favorites

Most of these tactics were negated once you screwed up and got shot by an enemy but the fact that these combos existed brought open new levels of skill to achieve to the already complicated elementalist. There were downsides to these forbidden combos, such as getting hit while swapping staff to dual daggers, or getting caught in a weaponset you do not want for the situation. Plus they required insanely skilled players to do properly, while making sure this did not impact their strategy / overall performance with the increased APM.

Yes it was op, but the game itself is very easy to play compartively to other games out there (LoL and Dota2). So these tactics were fun, extremely challenging, and rewarding if done correctly.

Obviously the classes that weren’t elementalist had the short end of the stick… but they could still do something similar on a smaller scale(warriors using several leap type abilities and buffs, etc.)

I’m not really sure how many high tiered, tPvP elementalists were aware of these combos though, and whether this was actually used or not. I used it a lot though

There was also the option of swapping amulets and predicting what kind of fight you got into as well, which took a decent amount of strategy too and had risks also.

The changes were necessary in my opinion. But there needs to be more variability in build setups as a result (at least from an elementalist standpoint).

The ignorance about gw2 you show yet still calling yourself a pro player is hilarious. It’s even easy to add on you know nothing about competitive play in any game. QQ teams are already thinking of running double portal! Yeah, of course they are. It’s the easiest kittening cop out that raging kids can come out with on a whim. Wait until real teams put together actual team setups that make you look like the moron you are.

While this change may have been a good idea, they should have finished (or…started, rather) to buff those weapon sets that were only used for out-of-combat movement or buffs.
I mean like Warrior, for example, why would I use Warhorn to give my team swiftness and then completely gimp myself the rest of the match by missing out on a stun or block from wielding a shield?
With this change in place, we can see things like Warhorns get buffed to be on-par with other sets without being abused by weapon swapping.
For example, maybe the new Warrior Warhorn could give AoE swiftness and vigour (duration increased by 50% or more) plus a skill to give aoe -% dmg from condi dmg or something idk.

Jumper.9482:

While this change may have been a good idea, they should have finished (or…started, rather) to buff those weapon sets that were only used for out-of-combat movement or buffs.
I mean like Warrior, for example, why would I use Warhorn to give my team swiftness and then completely gimp myself the rest of the match by missing out on a stun or block from wielding a shield?
With this change in place, we can see things like Warhorns get buffed to be on-par with other sets without being abused by weapon swapping.
For example, maybe the new Warrior Warhorn could give AoE swiftness and vigour (duration increased by 50% or more) plus a skill to give aoe -% dmg from condi dmg or something idk.

Yet your example is completely nullified by the fact warhorn and traits associated can bring great utility to not just the warrior, but mitigation towards their team. I’m sure there could have been something else to bring up. The teams that utilize underused classes and builds will get on top with team play and spread utility because of these changes, while gimmick setups will proceed to stomp terrible teams (probably most these “pro” teams).

You all keep missing the damn point. This change has very little effect on the “pros”. They will keep winning no matter what and that’s because, as Oni said, 99% of them already run with balanced setups and balanced builds. The only edge a pro had over a more casual player was the fact that the “pro” was adapting his gameplay to win games faster. With the new patch it’s impossible to adapt your gameplay during a game and that’s ok, the teams that used to win will keep doing it, the only actual “problem” is that it will take more time to win and it will make games more boring and more static. This however is not a real problem for those who play the game at any level, those who were winning will keep doing so and those who were losing will keep doing so (the game will be even harder for them due to the lack of comeback opportunities), the real problem will be to watch this BORING game. It will have a lot less exciting things to show now to the fans.

Also, for those who keep saying “This is how GW1 was”.. who gives a damn about GW1 ?! This game is called Guild Wars 2 and it should follow it’s own path to success. It’s not meant to be a full remake of GW1…

Last thing, when I say “pros” I am referring to that handfull of teams that has a good success in tournaments. By no means I’m entitling them as almighty gods or w/e.

Danto.6748:

the real problem will be to watch this BORING game. It will have a lot less exciting things to show now to the fans.

Excitement is spectating inventory swapping? Or watching pros open up trait menus and swapping?

Also, is everyone still forgetting that third-party tournaments, which are typically the ones that matter, will inevitably be on custom arenas where this will probably be a toggle at the worst? Especially if this isn’t mandated in sPvP.

I think a few chill pills need to be distributed. Has anyone played any tournaments yet? After one example of the doomsday “game is dying” prophecies about reduced skill ceilings, are people throwing up their hands and saying "SEE?!?!?‘? That’s actually what I expect to be happening, and it disappoints me.

Danto.6748:

You all keep missing the damn point. This change has very little effect on the “pros”. They will keep winning no matter what and that’s because, as Oni said, 99% of them already run with balanced setups and balanced builds. The only edge a pro had over a more casual player was the fact that the “pro” was adapting his gameplay to win games faster. With the new patch it’s impossible to adapt your gameplay during a game and that’s ok, the teams that used to win will keep doing it, the only actual “problem” is that it will take more time to win and it will make games more boring and more static. This however is not a real problem for those who play the game at any level, those who were winning will keep doing so and those who were losing will keep doing so (the game will be even harder for them due to the lack of comeback opportunities), the real problem will be to watch this BORING game. It will have a lot less exciting things to show now to the fans.

Also, for those who keep saying “This is how GW1 was”.. who gives a damn about GW1 ?! This game is called Guild Wars 2 and it should follow it’s own path to success. It’s not meant to be a full remake of GW1…

Last thing, when I say “pros” I am referring to that handfull of teams that has a good success in tournaments. By no means I’m entitling them as almighty gods or w/e.

We get your point, it’s just a terrible and false point.

It seems it’s all politics. I’m guessing the self proclaimed “Pros” find this change bad while us regular (Not average or casual) players welcome this change that will balance pvp matches, and judging by this thread more people welcome than not. I feel like the people who are not welcoming this change either do not understand what this change will really do for balancing this game or they like bypassing the fact that every build has a risk reward setup. There is a reason ANET gave us a limited amount of skills, im guessing diversity among builds was 1 reason. Skill swapping during matches doesn’t promote diversity because everyone is skill swapping the same skills.

I normally don’t post much on the forums but this change warrants it.

Worst change to date. Never mind utilities and traits, everyone relies on weapon swapping in PvE, WvW, Dungeoning, sPvP, every facet of the game, why would decide to just disable it for tPvP?

Multiple developers have stated on multiple occasions the desire to create a pathway for new players to get into the tPvP scene. Why would you just now decide to go and break the golden rule of Design Anything 101; consistency?

This change hurts casuals more than it does anyone else. Simply put, fewer weapon sets = less build diversity = less opportunity = less intricacy.

My eyes are bleeding from all the “Pro vs Casual” and “Less is More” BS in this thread. It doesn’t matter whether you play 8 hours a day or 8 hours a week, less is less and more is more. It’s that simple, they’re mutually exclusive by definition. If you remove the ability to swap weapons, players will either A. Design their builds around weapons that give swiftness. B. Forgo their maximum amount of mobility for the utility provided by a different weapon set. Ultimately everyone is going to be designing tPvP builds for 2 weapon sets as opposed 3, 4, or however many they were using before. Regardless of how much play time you put in weapon-locking hurts everyone equally.

The weapons in GW2 are designed to serve different functions and thus designed to be interchangeable. At least half the classes in the game have a weapon whose only useful function is a swiftness buff. It means more time is spent running from point A to point B which is not fun for the player or a spectator. The more time you have to spend setting up a strategic attack the less strategy you get in a timed match. The more one sided the math becomes.

I sincerely hope Anet refrains from keeping this terrible, terrible change in game.

Felme.9638:

I normally don’t post much on the forums but this change warrants it.

Worst change to date. Never mind utilities and traits, everyone relies on weapon swapping in PvE, WvW, Dungeoning, sPvP, every facet of the game, why would decide to just disable it for tPvP?

Multiple developers have stated on multiple occasions the desire to create a pathway for new players to get into the tPvP scene. Why would you just now decide to go and break the golden rule of Design Anything 101; consistency?

This change hurts casuals more than it does anyone else. Simply put, fewer weapon sets = less build diversity = less opportunity = less intricacy.

My eyes are bleeding from all the “Pro vs Casual” and “Less is More” BS in this thread. It doesn’t matter whether you play 8 hours a day or 8 hours a week, less is less and more is more. It’s that simple, they’re mutually exclusive by definition. If you remove the ability to swap weapons, players will either A. Design their builds around weapons that give swiftness. B. Forgo their maximum amount of mobility for the utility provided by a different weapon set. Ultimately everyone is going to be designing tPvP builds for 2 weapon sets as opposed 3, 4, or however many they were using before. Regardless of how much play time you put in weapon-locking hurts everyone equally.

The weapons in GW2 are designed to serve different functions and thus designed to be interchangeable. At least half the classes in the game have a weapon whose only useful function is a swiftness buff. It means more time is spent running from point A to point B which is not fun for the player or a spectator. The more time you have to spend setting up a strategic attack the less strategy you get in a timed match. The more one sided the math becomes.

I sincerely hope Anet refrains from keeping this terrible, terrible change in game.

Your math is way off. Anet changed the equation from 33C33 which equals One, to 7C2+3C1+3C1+20C3 which equals 1167. (using Thieves’ available skill set for example)

How does this work? Originally, everyone had access to every skill in there repertoire, meaning the thought that there were tons of builds was an illusion, there were 8 builds and they differentiated themselves by how people changed up their builds on the fly.

Felme.9638:

I normally don’t post much on the forums but this change warrants it.

Worst change to date. Never mind utilities and traits, everyone relies on weapon swapping in PvE, WvW, Dungeoning, sPvP, every facet of the game, why would decide to just disable it for tPvP?

Multiple developers have stated on multiple occasions the desire to create a pathway for new players to get into the tPvP scene. Why would you just now decide to go and break the golden rule of Design Anything 101; consistency?

This change hurts casuals more than it does anyone else. Simply put, fewer weapon sets = less build diversity = less opportunity = less intricacy.

My eyes are bleeding from all the “Pro vs Casual” and “Less is More” BS in this thread. It doesn’t matter whether you play 8 hours a day or 8 hours a week, less is less and more is more. It’s that simple, they’re mutually exclusive by definition. If you remove the ability to swap weapons, players will either A. Design their builds around weapons that give swiftness. B. Forgo their maximum amount of mobility for the utility provided by a different weapon set. Ultimately everyone is going to be designing tPvP builds for 2 weapon sets as opposed 3, 4, or however many they were using before. Regardless of how much play time you put in weapon-locking hurts everyone equally.

The weapons in GW2 are designed to serve different functions and thus designed to be interchangeable. At least half the classes in the game have a weapon whose only useful function is a swiftness buff. It means more time is spent running from point A to point B which is not fun for the player or a spectator. The more time you have to spend setting up a strategic attack the less strategy you get in a timed match. The more one sided the math becomes.

I sincerely hope Anet refrains from keeping this terrible, terrible change in game.

Good post.

I hope this thread gets 1000+ posts long and Anet reverts the lock on weapons and utilities.

aydenunited.5729:

The new META: Finally people are forced to make balanced builds.

Your welcome, the community asked for it, after all.

Amen to this.

Lmfao, I love it, Oh Danto, your tears, give me your tears, they’re so salty and sweet, so delicious, I just want to eat them all up.

What this change does, is forces you to choose a balanced, and more reasonable build and forces you to cover your weaknesses from the start, and adapting to change, and overcoming adversity.

It forces players to learn to negate their weaknesses using each-other, or themselves, and play intelligently, instead of just hot-swapping weapons / skills to counter whatever is going on in the fight.

It’s now more about your actual play, instead of your skills and weapons, you have to be better, deal with it.

<3’s “top players” that part made me lol, thanks for the laugh. If you can’t counter a cheese, especially after they’re now stuck with those ability’s, your kittening bad. Not just bad, kittening bad. Period, end of story. And clearly have no place talking about balance, or demanding changes you clearly don’t understand.

Finally they did this. That’s a good change.

Awesome change, was so sick of running with open inventory all the time just to switch to warhorn.
And the fact that now people gotta use overall balanced build makes game better, just because someone gimps hes build to kill certain player in match make him skilled? No.
Theres nothing skilled about switching your traits/utilities in middle of match just because you need to bunker a point for 2 min before your normal bunker arrives.

in gw1 you could swap weapons, you had 4 slots and swapped with f1 f2 f3 f4, I don’t know why they didn’t keep it that way.

Why aren’t we allowed to acces all our weapons skills, with a 10s cooldown that would be fair , right now it’s too narrow , you just take the most powerful weapon and a ranged one and that’s it.

Now it’s worse, (not like having to browse your inventory to change weapon was good), take your best weapon and forget about the others.

I didn’t log in for 3 weeks and that’s not helping for me to come back.

Didn’t read the whole thread maybe someone already suggested it.
I would like to see a compromise like:
Weapon swapping only if no skill is on CD
Utility swapping only in the respawn area limited to twice a match or once for each utility slot
Armor/Amulett swapping none at all or once a match in the respawn area
Traits swapping none at all times.

That way you are not totally screwed, if the enemy runs a “counter build” and have another strategic option. The enemy can adept themselfs to the adapted build and so on…

@chapichapo
They changed the weapon swap due to the function of skills/weapons. In gw1 you took skills according to your weapon. If you are hammer specced you could swap to a sword, but couldn’t use half of your skills then as they are limited to a hammer. In gw2 the skills are tied to the weapon, so you have more skills to your disposal. Now imagine you could cycle through all/most of your weapons, gaining new skills with every weapon. That would result in a combinatorial explosion regarding balance.

skyvahaerie.5340:

@chapichapo
They changed the weapon swap due to the function of skills/weapons. In gw1 you took skills according to your weapon.

yeah but you still swapped weapons for utility like +% of enchantment duration to run faster , pretty much like you would do with a guardian staff for example, also you could swap to a shield just for the defense or a ranged weapon because you needed one to aggro npc/charge adrenaline etc.

I’ll contribute to this thread again.

So, what does it actually mean to ‘’be skilled’’ ?,
Is it being able to counter whatever the enemy team throws at you – simply by changing amulet from GC to bunker? or vice versa?,
Is it being able to counter whatever the enemy team throws at you – simply by changing weapons traits and ulities?.

Or is it infact, having to play balanced, pick your weapons, utilities, traits and amulet – wisely, instead of randomly. thus forcing you and your team to work more together, and OUTPLAY your oponents, rather than just counter them with a swap?.

Fact is that classes have limited weapons at their disposal for a reason, and that reason is balance, I can understand why ‘’top players (lold)’’ may find it frustrating that what enabled them to lolsteamroll over anyone whos not doing the exact same thing – might be frustrated, that the ’’easymode’’ (lets be honest, just countering IS easier than having to work as a team in synch and OUTPLAY your adversary) is being removed.

That however is no reason to keep a bad mechanic in the game.

This change will force developers to revisit certain weapons, and the skills and abilities they come with, to bring it all on par, and make more builds and plays viable – WITHOUT, giving classes the option to change what they entered as – on the fly.

many of you are using Esports and viewers on streams as an example, well heres one that tells the truth.

as a viewer if i was watching LoL, and suddenly two from one of the teams, swapped hero? i would be outraged and simply stop watching.
some of you will say ‘’but they can change build midway, sell items and buy something else’’

true, but they cant change their skills, and thats where its different.

If we had an open weaponslot for every weapon available to our class, i would be grumbling abit at this, but we don’t, we’re limited for the sake of balance. and to make it easier to transition into the game.

As a viewer i do NOT want to watch a person starting a match as one thing – but ending it as another, if i tune into a GC ele’s stream, i want to see him perform for his team AS a gc ele,

i don’t want to see him swap to a clerics amulet midway, and tank 3 people.
and that goes for all classes, the idea of changing just to counter, takes skill and teamwork AWAY. it does not promote it, why? – because you don’t have to build balanced to overcome obstacles and challenges, Unbalanced builds creates problems,

being locked into your build, means that if you play cookie cutter builds (wich most people nowadays actually do) then you’re taking a high risk/reward approach to the game, if you meet another team playing the same way, it comes down to your skill vs theirs.

However if you meet a balanced group you’ll most likely loose, because they can addapt – and you can’t.

that means you have to pick, and theres a plus and a minus to anything you pick. It makes the choices you make when you put together a build – and a team composition, matter. it makes it important.

This game needs gear/trait/utility/elite locks in Spvp/Tpvp for one simply reason.

It’s needed.

TL;DR: swapping stuff mid-match to win, is NOT skill, it’s avoiding confrontations,
+1 for gear/trait/utility/elite locks.

I never knew that I was able to counter the entire planet by simply swapping weapons.

This nonsense about ’’you’re now forced to make balanced builds’’ are words from pure ignorance and they make me wonder why you keep repeating this uninformed nonsense.

Here are a few funsies for ya’ll:

1. If you see a mass condition team you’re still able to not only swap utilities during the game, but you’re also able to set all your skills and the weapon during the game – the only thing this does is kill options. Stuff like swapping to greatsword on the side of clocktower etc has been hit. This was a mere minor play that wont change anything in the greater scheme of things, all it did was remove options.

2. Everyone had a core set of utilities, always. The one who swapped these utilities and made a real impact was a guardian, and these swaps were made BEFORE the match started based on the enemy composition.

3. Nobody used weapon swap EVER the way you guys put it. ‘’Oh, this guy is running x, I’m going to swap to Y and instantly win the game’’, it’s hilarious, do you seriously thing we’d be supporting that nonsense?

So every single one of your frankly ignorant arguments is stupid, aside from one, which I havent adressed yet which is:

‘’I don’t like having to open my inventory and clicking around, it’s annoying’’

Seriously?

Then don’t do it, clearly you’re not in the most competitive area in gw2 atm. And no, don’t get offended and try to say ‘’QP DOESNT MATTER’’ or anything like that in a similiar spirit to defend yourself, because you don’t have to.

You’re not in the part of gw2 where weapon swapping is a relevant, interesting part of the game that does NOTHING but add mechanics that any developer should want on this level. You’re on a level where you would NEVER have to weapon swap and you can still dominate your 8vs8, just don’t use it.

I don’t even know why I’m responding to you guys anymore, it feels like I’m talking to the walliest of wally wall walls. Of course teams will pick up Warriors now because of the Warhorn. 4shizzle.

If only these forums weren’t “Either you agree with me, or you’re ignorant/stupid”, perhaps discussions could go somewhere.

Also, for those bringing up GW1, you had 4 weapon slots, but only 8 unchanging skills. I could always bust out a bow if I wanted to pull as a Warrior, but that’s literally all I could do with it if I had other weapon abilities on my bar. GW2 is structured differently, and as such, the comparison is false. That’s just simple logic.

alcopaul.2156:

the plan is be the same old single build balanced Crappy Guild Wars 1 all along.

This really sounds like a wow’s rage…am i wrong? Only a wow player can call gw1’s pvp crappy balanced..rofl, hilarious…

Here your skillbar is bounded to weapons…in gw1 weapon swap is used just to get some different boons from them that’s why you have different slots (You are not going to change your build swapping them)..weapon swapping in gw1 doesn’t affect your skills or major stats…to do the same here they had to lock your current sets, traits and utilities…giving the option of swapping everything during a match only leads to midless going in tpvp because you can swap if needed…now you have to plan things before entering, and balancing around pretty much everything you can face inside…and at the same time this will bring crazy unbalanced teams out because in 3 fights you’re going to find someone who can raceroll you if you’re bounded to a 1 way team build…

To be completely honest i think that many of you are completely over reacting to this change, not that i’m 100% happy with this but i’m trying to understand the idea behind this change. Let’s try to analyze this, which classes used to benefit from this the most? In my opinion, Mesmers, Guardian and Staff Ele, I mean think about it, let’s imagine these scenarios:

- Mersmer going to cap close point without portal utility up, in case nobody invade he will just switch and drop the portal otherwise he would have fought with an useful utility in his bar and still be able to drop a portal after that. Another thing, his ress utility, no one runs it because with one slot taken by the portal there’s no way they will give up another utility between mirror image and the breakstun (decoy or blink ) unless they are about to join an almost lost fight. So now you gotta decide before the match start if you wanna be more defensive or more offensive.
About weapon swaps, let’s say they have to hold a point against a thief or a warrior then they will ofc run a staff. Let’s say a point holder mesmer wants to join a mid fight with his portal in cd, then they could just go sword and hit from a safe distance and still be able to be useful in the fight and at the same time keep an eye on the path to his undefended base.
About the buff speed all I will say is, Mesmers are designed to be less mobile than other classes but yet they got the most powerful mobility skill in the game. So if they want a speed buff then they should run a focus and keep it. Seriously Mesmers were the real godlike class in this game.
- Guardians, why the hell a bunker class has to be mobile too? For example if in a teamfight one team manages to stomp a bunker first, this is what is going to happen, he spawns, then he will switch staff for swftness/GS for leap/Sword to blink forward and then equip back his actual set of weapons. Reducing his travel time for at least 1/3. Why does that has to be normal? Movements around the map are a big part of the games so why ppl should be able to bypass it by just switching weapons during that phase? If you wanna be bunker as hell you’ll be slow DEAL WITH IT.
- About Staff Ele, usually it takes hours to take down them and some more to stomp them, why should they be able to enjoy the highest mobility In the game of the D/D to rejoin the fight before the enemy team could have even capped the same point? Again he’s bypassing an important part of the game itself, travels around the map. How broken could that be?

Other classes at most will lose a swiftness speed, but it will not completely change their gameplay. Speaking of, correct me if I’m wrong , until now nobody even really cared much about carry a weapon with swiftness.. at least until we had one in bag.
I’m still skeptical about the block of the utilities but we’ll see what happens. It will ofc take off a part of decisions making during the games but it may actually helps the balance of it. A mobile oriented team setup full of glass cannons could be a possibility now, I believe that this could bring more variety to the meta. Dont get me wrong i know that this takes away a part that i used to enjoy myself but at same time i feel like it wasn’t that balanced before. But maybe I’m wrong and these are just a bunch of nonsense. Who knows!

Khayn.6475:

….

this is what every “wanna be pro” should have written just after patch in every QQ thread.

Khayn.6475:

I’m still skeptical about the block of the utilities but we’ll see what happens.

I thought utilities weren’t being blocked, just traits/armor/weaps/amulets.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Khayn.6475:

I’m still skeptical about the block of the utilities but we’ll see what happens.

I thought utilities weren’t being blocked, just traits/armor/weaps/amulets.

They aren’t currently blocked but they’re supposed to be per Tyler’s post in the other thread about this same topic.

Oni.5429:

I never knew that I was able to counter the entire planet by simply swapping weapons.

This nonsense about ’’you’re now forced to make balanced builds’’ are words from pure ignorance and they make me wonder why you keep repeating this uninformed nonsense.

If you were truly a pro player you would create a balanced build and youtube tutorial for everyone to copy that makes this argument work. If you can’t accomplish at least that much then your QPs don’t mean anything.

Ah well, there’s so many reasons this change favors established teams over casuals in the first place it’s pretty sad that so many people think they’ll even gain the slightest competitive advantage. I truly hope Anet does not decide to start dumbing down tPvP when the competitive community thus far is already nearly too small to even necessitate strategic play in most matches.

Shukran.4851:

Khayn.6475:

….

this is what every “wanna be pro” should have written just after patch in every QQ thread.

Your post reminded me of the Dot Dot Dot flash review from a year ago. Thanks to that I spent a good few minutes today getting a great laugh in.

It’s a strangely good summary for most of this thread so for anyone that hasn’t seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2Z23SAFVA

Personally I think that this is a good change, I have always found weapon swapping outside of combat to be rather cheesy; it offered mobility to classes the otherwise didn’t have access to it, it also means that people will now start thinking about new builds or picking up different traits to deal with this change.
It will be a nice meta game shake up, one that has been long over due, I know that this change has upset a lot of people, but I find it rather refreshing. I believe that this is how it was intended to be from the start, and I do understand that certain classes will be hurt by this more than others, but than again it will be interesting to see how teams adapt to these changes.
I just want to say that no meta game stays the same, there always needs to be a shake up to keep things fresh and interesting, things get stagnant if they remain the same for too long.
Also if you don’t want people knowing what your strats are and what you are running, than streaming is a bad choice, I know that its sad but you can’t really have your cake and eat it.
All in all, I just wanted to say that I think this is a good change, and I always thought that this change would be coming earlier, but its good that its finally here.

faeral.7120:

i can definitely see the reasons for keeping utility swapping in—& as of now, we still can, correct? according to some posts here.

i like that some things are pre-determined about your build, that you make certain choices that you have to live by. but i agree that mid-game tactics should allow for some flexibility.

if they take away weapon/armor/trait swapping but keep utility swapping, is that a somewhat happy medium?

in MOBA terms,

weapon/armor/trait = hero selection
utility = itemization

Thats my opinion on it. Lock weapons, traits and armor, but allow Utilities to be changed (outside of combat of course, with the same rules as before IE cannot change if on cooldown)

Xeph.4513:

… I believe that this is how it was intended to be from the start, and I do understand that certain classes will be hurt by this more than others, but than again it will be interesting to see how teams adapt to these changes.

I’m kind of surprised to see you say that. My opinion during open beta was that there should have been a character/build lock throughout the tournaments. After playing for a few months though I’ve come to appreciate not having a build lock (though I still think characters should be locked for the duration of a tournament). I’m opposed to this change for no other reason than I have nothing to do but hit the W key to run from base to base now whereas I could at least swap weapons for swiftness before.

*Fixed a bug that allowed certain classes to teleport through world geometry (is the kind of meta change we should be seeing four months post launch).

Instead we’re getting changes that should have been deployed during beta if they were going to be put in, not to mention breaking Mesmers completely in tPvP but that’s for another thread. Even Kevin Sorbo would be disappointed.

Xeph.4513:

Personally I think that this is a good change, I have always found weapon swapping outside of combat to be rather cheesy; it offered mobility to classes the otherwise didn’t have access to it, it also means that people will now start thinking about new builds or picking up different traits to deal with this change.
It will be a nice meta game shake up, one that has been long over due, I know that this change has upset a lot of people, but I find it rather refreshing. I believe that this is how it was intended to be from the start, and I do understand that certain classes will be hurt by this more than others, but than again it will be interesting to see how teams adapt to these changes.
I just want to say that no meta game stays the same, there always needs to be a shake up to keep things fresh and interesting, things get stagnant if they remain the same for too long.
Also if you don’t want people knowing what your strats are and what you are running, than streaming is a bad choice, I know that its sad but you can’t really have your cake and eat it.
All in all, I just wanted to say that I think this is a good change, and I always thought that this change would be coming earlier, but its good that its finally here.

I can’t even begin to express how glad i am to see one of the leading team’s take a sensible stance to this change.

I can honestly say that I am glad to see your response here, If only more of the players in paids would realise the potential this change brings.

Looking forward to hear and see more from TP in a near future??

This forces a team to actually become a team, to sit and discuss their builds with each other, to actually add synergy in their overall composition. Anyone who disagrees with this is in their own bubble. It never should have been about having everything to choose from to begin with. It’s only when your forced to pick a few apples from the tree when your decision effects the outcome of the match. Not IN the match knowing your up against something you weren’t equipped for and then switch out this and that accordingly. This change will weed out the sore losers and I welcome it.

Hey Jon ever think about letting players use energy out of combat as like a speed boost so that way each class would have access to swiftness or something while the drawback is entering combat with low energy to gain the speed.

Some classes\builds are made for fast roaming, some others are not…just like dmg and def, you can’t and must not have both…builds need to be specialized into roles and playing into balanced teams made to face and counter as many situations as possible… Locking builds it’s just a way to improve strategy…and please don’t tell me that swapping builds requires more skills than making a good team able to be viable vs many other different team builds that you might face in tpvp…in gw1 you have to be a good team in both killing and defending and also running relics while snaring others if you want to get candies..
Everyone can do that separately, running different builds…but….now….can you figure out a team to do everyting you did before when you could swap things but with an unique team build? That’s the challenge.

This might prevent some obscure unintended benefits, but it destroys competitively mandated Utility for several classes. Utility and Weapon swapping were allowing Necro to remain Mobile and “Useful” as anything but bonus glory to the other team. Without it you are forced to choose between being useful or getting to the team fight before it is over. GG no rematch.

This change just further highlights how far away GW2 is from any kind of competitive balance. Some classes akitteneasy allowing any cookie cut from the forum to experience rewarding PvP gameplay. Others (Necro, Engi, Ele…) are like a Zulu translation of Shakespeare and even at the highest level of competitive play still cannot provide the same sense of self satisfaction that.. HEARTSEEKER HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER

Seems to provide for little more Mastery development than, being able to use google, and being able to press 122222222222222222222222222222222222222

This change just further refined the reason no one wants to play structured PvP unless they are Rambo with 3 button strats and no afraid of nuthin.

Keeping the weapon lock is a necessity IMO. It shouldn’t be the optimal play to cycle weapons OOC for swiftness buffs etc. because the interface does not support this. Choosing a weapon has a lot to do with choosing your playstyle, as does choosing your traits which you shouldn’t be able to change during a match either. This will help the e-sportability (that’s a word… maybe) because it’s easier for an audience (and for the opposing team) to determine what a player can and can’t do, thus giving him a recognizable identity.

The only thing people are afraid of is change, I mean this patch hasn’t been out for a long enough time to give an accurate assessment on how this is going to effect pvp in the long run, yet people choose to come on the forums and have an extended argument regarding this matter.
Anyways just give it a chance and lets see where it goes

XiL.4318:

This might prevent some obscure unintended benefits, but it destroys competitively mandated Utility for several classes. Utility and Weapon swapping were allowing Necro to remain Mobile and “Useful” as anything but bonus glory to the other team. Without it you are forced to choose between being useful or getting to the team fight before it is over. GG no rematch.

This change just further highlights how far away GW2 is from any kind of competitive balance. Some classes akitteneasy allowing any cookie cut from the forum to experience rewarding PvP gameplay. Others (Necro, Engi, Ele…) are like a Zulu translation of Shakespeare and even at the highest level of competitive play still cannot provide the same sense of self satisfaction that.. HEARTSEEKER HEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKERHEARTSEEKER

Seems to provide for little more Mastery development than, being able to use google, and being able to press 122222222222222222222222222222222222222

This change just further refined the reason no one wants to play structured PvP unless they are Rambo with 3 button strats and no afraid of nuthin.

So…do you mean that hs spam crap and stuff like that are actually effective and satisfying builds? And they’re going to be better than a necro just because you lost your swiftness? I can’t remember last time an hs spammer even come close to down me…on the other hand i still meet good necros after patch…maybe they don’t roam as fast as before and if you want to play a roamer you’ve better to go thief or ele, but they were already better for this role (Ele is still really fast even without 2h staff’s speed buff) …i really can’t get how losing some swiftness scares ppl so much, roaming support classes are still fast and bunkers don’t need to run everywhere and don’t think a necro needs to go point to point during all match…and if you have to move, well dear god it will take <5 secs more…both for you and the other team because noone would drop a necro with all his power just because he runs slower than before…please..

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

I’m not sure I understand what’s going on here. I’m just an average player, who probably dies more than he kills others in sPVP.

It’s been my understanding for quite some time now, that the whole point of GW2 combat system was the weapon swapping, or in the case of elementalists swapping between attunements. To give it a more involved and challenging aspect.

If what I’m reading in this thread is true, now I’ll either have to pick my shield/mace or greatsword before a match on my guardian and be stuck with it? So the majority of the time I’ll just be autohitting people? That’s really disappointing and quite frankly incredibly boring.

Being able to switch to mace/shield when my dps greatsword abilities are on cooldown for the heal symbol and giving allies some protection is now not possible?
If so, then I guess my guardian is now going to be straight up dps.

Tripp.9862:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

I’m not sure I understand what’s going on here. I’m just an average player, who probably dies more than he kills others in sPVP.

It’s been my understanding for quite some time now, that the whole point of GW2 combat system was the weapon swapping, or in the case of elementalists swapping between attunements. To give it a more involved and challenging aspect.

If what I’m reading in this thread is true, now I’ll either have to pick my shield/mace or greatsword before a match on my guardian and be stuck with it? So the majority of the time I’ll just be autohitting people? That’s really disappointing and quite frankly incredibly boring.

Being able to switch to mace/shield when my dps greatsword abilities are on cooldown for the heal symbol and giving allies some protection is now not possible?
If so, then I guess my guardian is now going to be straight up dps.

Your misunderstanding, you will be able to equip your greatsword and ur mace/shield, but if you have a warhorn in your backpack than you won’t be able to equip that to use it for swiftness thats all XD

I like the new change and I think it adds more balance to the game. I’m not really convinced that utilities should ever be locked but I’m not completely against it either. I’m definitely happy with the current changes though. Pretty sure there is a problem right now where you can’t just equip a weapon though if you don’t have one equipped at the start of the match so if you weren’t paying attention you could be a dagger/dagger ele that ends up with dagger/nothing or just nothing in general which would definitely be annoying. To further prevent this maybe weapons are locked 10 seconds after the game starts or after you first enter combat.

Xeph.4513:

Tripp.9862:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

I’m not sure I understand what’s going on here. I’m just an average player, who probably dies more than he kills others in sPVP.

It’s been my understanding for quite some time now, that the whole point of GW2 combat system was the weapon swapping, or in the case of elementalists swapping between attunements. To give it a more involved and challenging aspect.

If what I’m reading in this thread is true, now I’ll either have to pick my shield/mace or greatsword before a match on my guardian and be stuck with it? So the majority of the time I’ll just be autohitting people? That’s really disappointing and quite frankly incredibly boring.

Being able to switch to mace/shield when my dps greatsword abilities are on cooldown for the heal symbol and giving allies some protection is now not possible?
If so, then I guess my guardian is now going to be straight up dps.

Your misunderstanding, you will be able to equip your greatsword and ur mace/shield, but if you have a warhorn in your backpack than you won’t be able to equip that to use it for swiftness thats all XD

Ahhhhh. Ok, cool! I do not see this change as a problem then.

Tripp.9862:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

I’m not sure I understand what’s going on here. I’m just an average player, who probably dies more than he kills others in sPVP.

It’s been my understanding for quite some time now, that the whole point of GW2 combat system was the weapon swapping, or in the case of elementalists swapping between attunements. To give it a more involved and challenging aspect.

If what I’m reading in this thread is true, now I’ll either have to pick my shield/mace or greatsword before a match on my guardian and be stuck with it? So the majority of the time I’ll just be autohitting people? That’s really disappointing and quite frankly incredibly boring.

Being able to switch to mace/shield when my dps greatsword abilities are on cooldown for the heal symbol and giving allies some protection is now not possible?
If so, then I guess my guardian is now going to be straight up dps.

It’s not the ` button swaps, it’s that they disabled the ability to edit your equipment loadout and utility during a game.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

No! Don’t even consider undoing this change. The point of only having certain utility/weapon slots, to me, is because your supposed to be limited to your selected build. And by doing this, we have to think more critically about what we will use and drop in our build in order to make the best of it. This is funner to me. If it were like this then changed to not be, you would see this same thread with much more people complaining.

I thought this was how it was supposed to be from before the beginning anyways. We are still able to change builds in between matches right? That’s still too much control IMO.

Sprinkles.6748:

No! Don’t even consider undoing this change. The point of only having certain utility/weapon slots, to me, is because your supposed to be limited to your selected build.

exactly this… what would be a point of having limited number of abilities when we could change them during a match? i support this change too

This is a great change, looking forward to seeing characters locked in per tournament as well! This will help weed out some of the self proclaimed “pros”.

Funny (kinda long) story:
Similar thing happened in the Left 4 Dead 2 competitive scene, if anyone is familiar with it. There was this thing “pros” did called lerping which is using a couple of commands in console to slightly alter how you update your client reports to the server. Basically the “pros” had a script to swap between different settings on the fly depending on what special infected zombie they spawned with. It really gives you an edge over players who don’t lerp. The top teams all lerped. The people running the comp decided to see what would happen if they locked in the settings to prevent lerping. So everyone locked into 1 setting that was unchangeable. After that pretty much all of the top teams got stomped and the “top team” flat out refused to participate in new tournaments in a childish effort to keep the #1 seat. As you can imagine, the real pros where discovered after the bads dispersed.
As I read through this thread I realized I had seen this before and remembered good old L4D2. Good times.

Btw, didn’t lerp in L4D2 and I don’t weapon/character swap in tpvp either.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

Funny how you never ever see this in wvw section. The wvw of the game doesn’t even get close to the attention that spvp does. Still people complain.

Haven’t seen a constructive dev post in wvw for ages.

Sansarah.3076:

Haven’t seen a constructive dev post in wvw for ages.

If you really missed them, you may start looking here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Habib-Loew-6239/showposts

~MRA

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

All I’m reading is “keep those ideas flowing, we’re here, we’re reading everything, however, we will still do whatever the kitten we want.”

And yeah, no kitten we’re doing a fantastic job. You, on the other hand, are not.