Guild Wars 2

MRA.4758:

Sansarah.3076:

Haven’t seen a constructive dev post in wvw for ages.

If you really missed them, you may start looking here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Habib-Loew-6239/showposts

~MRA

Thank you for the information, but simply watching one of the post list of one of the few dev’s that actually does post in wvw once every millenium, isn’t at all what I’m referring to. I know all to well that most of the spvp’ers don’t care at all what happends to wvw.
I’m simply stating, atleast you have someone here who actually reads and takes your oppinions into account, we haven’t seen much of that intresst at all in the wvw section. Currently, hardcore wvw guilds are more or less ignored.

Anyways enough with my rant, I’m simply frustrated and this has nothing to do with spvp so I’ll stay quiet.

Why does swiftness seem to be such a big deal to some people as if they were meant to be as fast as everyone else in the first place? Thieves, Elementalists, etc are SUPPOSED to be faster than, for example, a guardian.

So IMO if your argument is based entirely on losing your swiftness and therefore being slower than those who are supposed to be naturally fast, it’s an invalid argument. It’s like trying to justify roids in sports because all the other guys are naturally bigger than you so you want the boost.

I really have no opinion on the rest though since I’m not a avid tourney player and this doesn’t affect me at all, but thats my 2c on the swiftness thing.

First of all it’s not about, or not mainly at least, about weapon swaping. The ability to do it out of combat was just an extra for the majority to move around the map and to allow you to do some sort of comebacks (very few tho), so overall not many actually care about this feature.
The real “problem” was the ability of swaping utilities getting locked, since that prevented ANY sort of comeback for every team. Basically if your setup, as balanced as it could get, got somehow countered by another setup, then you would lose the match no matter what. Whatever teamfight you would get it it would have been a loss.
Now you can come and say that you need to make a balanced setup in order to win with the smiple fact that you get “balance utilities”, but that doesn’t work, there is no such thing as a balanced setup with balanced builds and there will always be a counter to counter and so on.
I can also see that the “fans” would have a hard time to follow a live match if the players were to change utilities, but let’s think about it for a second. What does it actually mean to change utilities and what utilities do you think get changed the most? Well, let me tell you. Usually it will happen that just a few classes will swap utilities around a match and those utilities will be Ress Signets or the Poral for mesmers and then that’s about it. Not many other classes will be doing Utility swaps. So let’s count it up: Warrior, Mesmer, Ele, Engi and Necro are the ones that will mainly focus on utility swaping.
As I just said now, the main focus on ulity swaping will be on Ress utilities, so let’s think what’s gona happen if they lock that down. Well, we will have a lot shorter teamfights, a lot more of a boring game and that’s about it. The way I see it, the team that will start the match with the more Ress utilities will probably win (depending on map and other factors).
Now, obviously this is not some sort of Godly skill or anything, but it helps most teams with some comeback opputunities, which otherwise they would lack; also, in my opinion, it makes the game a whole lot more interesting.
Every casual in the forum post called it a “l2p issue” for the “pros”. Well, I got news, this is just a BIG buff for us. Winning has never been easier than these last couple of days (at least for my team) and losing will get a whole lot more frequent for the casuals because they will have no way of coming back.
Now let’s focus on the actual facts, ANet is allowing us to still Utility swap and they plan to completely lock down the ability to Weapon swap. I personally think it’s a good way to go with at the moment, it will “fix” the roles of each class mobility wise (without weapon swap) and it will keep the game interesting thanks to the utility swaps. I’m happy they are going for this choice and I really hope it works out.

Other than that I just want to say that ANet should start looking into the Mesmer Macro issue ( casting 2-3 shatters with the same set of illusions/phantasms ).

Danto

I have said before that I think that characters should be locked upon tournament registration. I see two future options:

1) Locking everything (character/weapons/utilities/traits/amulet/sigils/runes) at tournament registration.

2) Your character is locked, but in the pre-match time be able to change everything and then at match start it remains locked until the end of the match. When I say match start I include the 10 second countdown because you shouldn’t be able to drop fields with an alternate weapon in that time and swap before it hits 0.

The first option benefits from a no-gimmick build/team comp while the latter allows for customization while in the tournament. For those that haven’t heard, a template system will be implemented (in GW1 it was awesome). With a template system, it would only take a couple of seconds to switch builds(weapons/utilities/traits/amulets/runes/sigils) and would allow teams to change to a different build and strategy very quickly.

My thoughts on the ability to change utilities after the match starts are the same as cherry picking the benefits of weapon skills out of combat…there is no place for this. This allows for a clear tradeoff of incredible powerful situational utility (some situations that might not present themselves during a match) or a constant but less powerful utility. With the weapon lock, people will start to see more guardians running staff, mesmers running focus, and warriors and rangers using warhorn. These weapon sets to provide great benefits and at the end of the day it is all about tradeoffs for what you hope to achieve. And I love warrior warhorn…there, I said it (someone had to).

One thing that is needed that we do not have: when you sign up for a tournament, you see the names of the teams entered. This will allow you to know exactly how many people are signed up for the tournament as this is currently impossible (if/when it will pop also). I am not worried about teams unregistering when the matchmaking system is in place. After all teams have entered, it should change to an overall tournament bracket view with randomized match ups. This should be one tab of the PvP window. Another tab should indicate the character class and name for all those on a team and personal stats. The tournament bracket overview tab should update after each match ends with the score of the match. In addition, if you want to assign an identifier to each tournament, you could put the results in a record book in the heart of the mists. And seriously we need to be able to hotkey the PvP window (it has been this way since it moved from the hero window-total fail).

Random thoughts to close up:
I only considered balance for my perspective but I also agree that it would be easier for spectators to understand what is going on when things are unchangeable.
Teams recording their matches should put a delay on uploading their streams until after the match/tourney.
Why are amulets not able to be stored in the pvp locker?
Is there going to be a conversion system for the few hundred free tourney tokens I have (and I am sure top teams will want for paid tokens as well)?
At 4 months in now I expected bugs still, but at least all the tooltips on damage/boons/conditions/effects/traits should be accurate even if the behavior is bugged-I mean ALL.
Bugs>balancing.
Thanks for the dev interaction. I am looking forward to some of the promises in the first 3-4 months of 2013.
Great job with the color options for tournaments-I love it!
Thank you for rolling back the update to fix the mesmer issue, i wish you had done that with the load screen bug but it is progress for sure—and now the mesmer issue is fixed!

Again, Thanks.

For there to be true competitive play, everything needs to be locked – weapon sets, traits, and utilities.

You say locking things hurts competitive play? Since when is running around with my inventory and hero menu open fun? It certainly isn’t competitive when I can build wars anyone who approaches me or that I approach.

Locking things in tournaments is going to ENCOURAGE build diversity by way of people having to finally consider their build, their team build, and how the builds are going to intermingle in a match.

Utilities need to be locked as well – they are utility, utilitarian. They are meant to either cover your weaknesses or expand on the abilities you want to take the most advantage of. Being able to do both, at all times, throughout the entire team build is not competitive at all – it’s extreme build wars.

Some may say “But Bear, that just means that you are going to limit the number of viable builds/team builds/strategies/pigeon holes!!!!oneone11!” No, it’s going to expand the competitive of the game, because it’s a TEAM game. At present and previously, there was no onus to be a synergistic team aside from a rough outline of the positions you wanted people to fill, now things can finally start getting more specific, more complex, more team oriented, and by extension more competitive. At the moment, being able to build wars mean you don’t have to be as team focused and is, by extension, less competitive.

DoYourBestBear.6810:

For there to be true competitive play, everything needs to be locked – weapon sets, traits, and utilities.

You say locking things hurts competitive play? Since when is running around with my inventory and hero menu open fun? It certainly isn’t competitive when I can build wars anyone who approaches me or that I approach.

Locking things in tournaments is going to ENCOURAGE build diversity by way of people having to finally consider their build, their team build, and how the builds are going to intermingle in a match.

Utilities need to be locked as well – they are utility, utilitarian. They are meant to either cover your weaknesses or expand on the abilities you want to take the most advantage of. Being able to do both, at all times, throughout the entire team build is not competitive at all – it’s extreme build wars.

Some may say “But Bear, that just means that you are going to limit the number of viable builds/team builds/strategies/pigeon holes!!!!oneone11!” No, it’s going to expand the competitive of the game, because it’s a TEAM game. At present and previously, there was no onus to be a synergistic team aside from a rough outline of the positions you wanted people to fill, now things can finally start getting more specific, more complex, more team oriented, and by extension more competitive. At the moment, being able to build wars mean you don’t have to be as team focused and is, by extension, less competitive.

There aren’t enough viable builds for each profession to encourage what you just said. And again as I said, the only utilities being swaped regularly are the Ressing ones.

It’s not like you’re going to see a full condi necro or a pistolwhip thief or a shout warrior that much, is it? Those builds exist, but they are not as viable as the “mainstream” ones and that’s a fact.

Locking down everything will only mean that most of the of the professions that have Ressing utilities will be stuck with them from the start of the game and that’s it. Nothing will change, there will be no “new” builds or balanced setups. I’ve played it and I saw it so don’t tell me otherwise. The current “mainstream” builds and setups will hardly change and that’s because not all classes have other viable builds.

J. Sharp please, lock also utilities!!!! it will help in balancing a lot!!
and it allow more build to come out because there will be no more a universal composition of 5 professions which can swap everything when needed.

alright maybe an idea to keep both sides happy…. lock everything exept utility’s and give every class a swiftness + additional boon utility…so that when swiftness is needed they can switch utility for swiftness….atm every class has utility’s that no one uses simply cuz the system doesn’t allow them to be pvp viable. take elemental for example…the conjured weapons are all pve utility’s…and even there they aren’t very popular…just make it so that one of the conjure weapons gives swiftness for 15 seconds on pick up. classes that don’t have much swiftness cud also get a boost like that for warriors maybe some shout cud give swiftness…just my 2 cents

Doku.9486:

alright maybe an idea to keep both sides happy…. lock everything exept utility’s and give every class a swiftness + additional boon utility…so that when swiftness is needed they can switch utility for swiftness….

That’s not a solution either, cause ppl will start to equip their utilities with a passive speed buff just to travel around the map and then immediatly switch back before join the fight. And since not avery class has that kind of utilities it will unbalance things out.

About what Danto says,
Your right, at the moment there are not many builds out there for each classes, but are you 100% sure that nobody will come up with something new? I mean bro, this change is not even completely up and running yet. Also Anet said many times that the plan is to give more variety of the viable builds, and this is one big step to accomplish that goal. Ofc they still have a lot of work to do, but trust me this change will actually help them, how can you not see that.

Danto.6748:

Locking down utilities will encourage making new builds? No.. it will only force a few classes with play with Ressing utlities for the whole game..

Also this is wrong as kittening hell. Your are not in the position to make such statement.

Have to say thet at the end of the day only a few complain about this change…seems most of the players appreciated it or at last want to give it a try…so, why not? You can’t really want to sit on something forever without taking changes into consideration just after a few months…imo

Khayn.6475:

Doku.9486:

alright maybe an idea to keep both sides happy…. lock everything exept utility’s and give every class a swiftness + additional boon utility…so that when swiftness is needed they can switch utility for swiftness….

That’s not a solution either, cause ppl will start to equip their utilities with a passive speed buff just to travel around the map and then immediatly switch back before join the fight. And since not avery class has that kind of utilities it will unbalance things out.

About what Danto says,
Your right, at the moment there are not many builds out there for each classes, but are you 100% sure that nobody will come up with something new? I mean bro, this change is not even completely up and running yet. Also Anet said many times that the plan is to give more variety of the viable builds, and this is one big step to accomplish that goal. Ofc they still have a lot of work to do, but trust me this change will actually help them, how can you not see that.

In the current state of the game there are not enough viable builds to encourage this change. First give us more choices and the lock utilities/weapons down. There’s no point to do it the other way around, is it? It’s actually counterproductive since they will only limit the playable/viable setups to a few balanced ones and that’s it.

Khayn.6475:

Danto.6748:

Locking down utilities will encourage making new builds? No.. it will only force a few classes with play with Ressing utlities for the whole game..

Also this is wrong as kittening hell. Your are not in the position to make such statement.

I’m in no position to make such a statement? Wow.. ok anyway tell me how many teams came up with awesome new builds/setups since patch ? All I saw was same setups with the only difference that everyone was now stuck with a ressing utility.

This would limit the number of builds you can use during a single tournament, not really because you can still use what you want, probably just sacrificing some mobility….but you need a better sutup for your team…so less choices for the single player but probably more teamwork and tactic…it would just lock single roles

Archaon.6245:

This would limit the number of builds you can use during a single tournament, not really because you can still use what you want, probably just sacrificing some mobility….but you need a better sutup for your team…so less choices for the single player but probably more teamwork and tactic…it would just lock single roles

That’s what I’m saying. Most teams will run with a balanced setup, but given that nowadays there are a handfull of balanced setups out there you won’t see much diversity. You will see for most of the time the same balanced setup. This is simply due to ANet not giving us enough choices for each profession.

Danto.6748:

There aren’t enough viable builds for each profession to encourage what you just said. And again as I said, the only utilities being swaped regularly are the Ressing ones.

You have plenty of choices. Just because you don’t see it in tournaments doesn’t mean a particular build has no role.

You saying there aren’t enough viable builds makes me laugh. Locking utilities would force people to maintain their choice for team support or otherwise.

Judging by your comments though, I guess you can rest easy and wait for some of the better players to try out new strategies you view as “nonviable.”

DoYourBestBear.6810:

Danto.6748:

There aren’t enough viable builds for each profession to encourage what you just said. And again as I said, the only utilities being swaped regularly are the Ressing ones.

You have plenty of choices. Just because you don’t see it in tournaments doesn’t mean a particular build has no role.

You saying there aren’t enough viable builds makes me laugh. Locking utilities would force people to maintain their choice for team support or otherwise.

Judging by your comments though, I guess you can rest easy and wait for some of the better players to try out new strategies you view as “nonviable.”

Looking forward to see these “better players”.
Anyway on a serious note, what I’m talking about is balanced all around setups that work. There aren’t many of them and for sure you won’t see them growing like mushrooms after the rain now after this feature.

A balanced team isn’t really a single setup…i think you can run a balanced even with 3 ppl with the same class…it’s just a matter of roles, and probably engis and eles are the best on running totally different specs from bunker to dps being good on both…i personally think that a balanced team is something you can customize way more than others, in gw1 a balanced team was just a matter of identification but 2 balanced could be totally different…some with frontline with spike supported by ml and some others with pressure… i’m just saying that with “everyone is going to run a balanced team” doesn’t mean everyone is going to run the same team build….

This title is creating such an interesting read here on official forums and also on our Czech site.

To me, this was a step into good direction. I appreciate the fact that FINALLY!! people will need to think before they go to the game.

GW2 conquest map is about movement. Now you have to decide – do you need to be fast? or do you need to have more DPS? Roles will be more clear now.. and some classes will have of course their mobility nerfed because they are not able to weapon swap again.

so to me.. this was great update!! and the only interesting change in whole patchnotes.

I’m not sure if this is on-topic or off-topic, but I believe it is time for the community to create a PvX build wiki for GW2. It’s usually pretty decent at giving us an idea of how many viable builds exist for each profession, and help a lot of playings judging the current state of meta builds.

Well, I see the clash of two different approaches in this thread. Some people prefer to base their gameplay around utilising their build (these people will be obviously pro-change) while other people like the ability to adapt at any point (these people will be agains the change). I don’t think there is anything in either these approaches which makes them inherently better or worse, they are just different. If you want, the first one is about picking your strategy beforehand and concentrate on tactics while the second one allows you to change your strategy without any penalty for doing this. The second approach makes the game arguably more complex (but in a messy, chaotic way which obviously negatively affects gameplay balance).

Myself, I like the change very much. I like the ‘deck building’ aspect of GW2 and I believe that once you start playing with a deck you shouldn’t be able to change your cards. This makes it more important to thing out your strategy beforehand. Also, the change penalises ‘extreme’ builds, which is a wonderful thing in my book.

centaur runes new meta.

is this what you wanted anet? IS IT?!?!?!

Danto.6748:

I’m in no position to make such a statement? Wow.. ok anyway tell me how many teams came up with awesome new builds/setups since patch ? All I saw was same setups with the only difference that everyone was now stuck with a ressing utility.

Simply because you cant possibly know exactly what can cross in ppl minds to be completly sure about what you’re saying. Unless you’re a genious and have already tested avery class build in every team setup in every matchups and in every map of the pool to make such statement. Otherwise is just your modest opinion, and that’s your position.

You actually, already have more choices, not many yeah but I want to believe that they are working hard to give me more. The simply fact that now bunkers will be slow as freaking hell adds quite a lot. Now for example as a warrior, my high mobility will actually matters even out of combats.. before it wasn’t that big of a deal.

Also you can’t expect to see results in the short time, as far as my team goes we just played one tournament since the patch came out due to the bugs that it brought and the lags, you know what i mean we met in the final yesterday in that tournament and our mesmer was stuck in the mist without be able to join the match.

Khayn.6475:

Danto.6748:

I’m in no position to make such a statement? Wow.. ok anyway tell me how many teams came up with awesome new builds/setups since patch ? All I saw was same setups with the only difference that everyone was now stuck with a ressing utility.

Simply because you cant possibly know exactly what can cross in ppl minds to be completly sure about what you’re saying. Unless you’re a genious and have already tested avery class build in every team setup in every matchups and in every map of the pool to make such statement. Otherwise is just your modest opinion, and that’s your position.

You actually, already have more choices, not many yeah but I want to believe that they are working hard to give me more. The simply fact that now bunkers will be slow as freaking hell adds quite a lot. Now for example as a warrior, my high mobility will actually matters even out of combats.. before it wasn’t that big of a deal.

To find the best/most balanced setup you can simplify the process by asking yourself what do I need for my team and where can I find that. Do that, find what you need and that’s it. You don’t need to test everything like you are saying. Try to do it and let me know how many balanced all around setups you will find.
My current position is based on mine and other’s theorycrafting, as well as first hand experience from tournaments. The only thing I saw was an increase in Rangers and that’s about it. However Ranger teams seem like an easy matchup.

Again, I will repeat myself, teams now will try to go for balanced setups since you can’t swap utilities/weapons, but there aren’t THAT many balanced setups out there. I would be optimist to name you 10 (keep in mind I’m talking about balanced all around good setups that will have a good chance to win).

Also, to make things clear, I like the current change where they only lock weapons. I think it’s good that they allow us to swap utililies for now.
I can see how this will be a good feature in the future when we will have a lot more builds/setup choices, but for now I think it’s not needed.

Naito.5693:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

All I’m reading is “keep those ideas flowing, we’re here, we’re reading everything, however, we will still do whatever the kitten we want.”

And yeah, no kitten we’re doing a fantastic job. You, on the other hand, are not.

Your a regular bucket of sunshine aren’t you ?
It would suffice just to be happy that a dev actually replied to the thread :<
Anyways as I said before, people need to calm down and see how these new changes unfold; if your unhappy in a week or two you will at least be able to make a good thread backed by actual facts and not assumptions.
<3

Danto.6748:

Also, to make things clear, I like the current change where they only lock weapons. I think it’s good that they allow us to swap utililies for now.

don’t want troll or what, but the thread title is ‘’No weapon swapping hurts competitive play’’ . so you are changing your mind?

then

before patch you could have an ele in party.
against condition you could use cleansing fire if needed, if a lot of conditions you could swap at staff to be helpfull for the team. now you must decide before starting what is your role and during fight your team strategy should adapt to opponent’s.
and it will force you to decide before the tourney which will be your team—>balanced—>diversity

ofc it is a bad example, but i hope you can see through the mere (bad english) words and understand my pov.
otherwise peace.

Danto.6748:

To find the best/most balanced setup you can simplify the process by asking yourself what do I need for my team and where can I find that. Do that, find what you need and that’s it. You don’t need to test everything like you are saying. Try to do it and let me know how many balanced all around setups you will find.
My current position is based on mine and other’s theorycrafting, as well as first hand experience from tournaments. The only thing I saw was an increase in Rangers and that’s about it. However Ranger teams seem like an easy matchup.

Again, I will repeat myself, teams now will try to go for balanced setups since you can’t swap utilities/weapons, but there aren’t THAT many balanced setups out there. I would be optimist to name you 10 (keep in mind I’m talking about balanced all around good setups that will have a good chance to win).

Your are approaching it the wrong way, is not “what do I need for my team and where can I find that” but, what do we want AS A TEAM and what do we need. Do we want be mobile? and be able to pressure constantly every point, ord do we want to be tanky and hold 2 points for the whole match?
everybody thinks this will take teams to just play more balance and it may be true right know, but this also opens more ways also to unbalanced teams with specifics tactics behind. Stuff that we have not seen yet.

And trust me i have experience from tournaments. As much as you do.

Shukran.4851:

Danto.6748:

Also, to make things clear, I like the current change where they only lock weapons. I think it’s good that they allow us to swap utililies for now.

don’t want troll or what, but the thread title is ‘’No weapon swapping hurts competitive play’’ . so you are changing your mind?

then

before patch you could have an ele in party.
against condition you could use cleansing fire if needed, if a lot of conditions you could swap at staff to be helpfull for the team. now you must decide before starting what is your role and during fight your team strategy should adapt to opponent’s.
and it will force you to decide before the tourney which will be your team—>balanced—>diversity

ofc it is a bad example, but i hope you can see through the mere (bad english) words and understand my pov.
otherwise peace.

The title is a few days old and it reached max lenght, couldn’t add utilites QQ. You can still swap utilities now for Cleasing Fire. Staff won’t dispell that many conditions unless you trait it to and that meant that you had relog to another Ele or redo your build pre game (considering you would start the game as SD or DD).

@Danto: So a bunch of teams will be running a certain kind of comp. whats to stop players from observing this, and building a new comp to counter that comp? And for that process to happen again and again into a loop. And isn’t what I just illustrated how a metagame works?
Also with Anet tweaking around all the time, certain skills are bound to be nerfed or buffed at some point, also skills that are perhaps too useful will stand out much more.
Anyways, build is hardly the only factor that decides a match, competence, teamwork and environment also play factors, and it’s also possible that someone clever might see major drawback in how most teams play the game (for example, 3 bunkers, 2 roamers) and find a comp that can undermind that strategy.

Khayn.6475:

Danto.6748:

To find the best/most balanced setup you can simplify the process by asking yourself what do I need for my team and where can I find that. Do that, find what you need and that’s it. You don’t need to test everything like you are saying. Try to do it and let me know how many balanced all around setups you will find.
My current position is based on mine and other’s theorycrafting, as well as first hand experience from tournaments. The only thing I saw was an increase in Rangers and that’s about it. However Ranger teams seem like an easy matchup.

Again, I will repeat myself, teams now will try to go for balanced setups since you can’t swap utilities/weapons, but there aren’t THAT many balanced setups out there. I would be optimist to name you 10 (keep in mind I’m talking about balanced all around good setups that will have a good chance to win).

Your are approaching it the wrong way, is not “what do I need for my team and where can I find that” but, what do we want AS A TEAM and what do we need. Do we want be mobile? and be able to pressure constantly every point, ord do we want to be tanky and hold 2 points for the whole match?
everybody thinks this will take teams to just play more balance and it may be true right know, but this also opens more ways also to unbalanced teams with specifics tactics behind. Stuff that we have not seen yet.

And trust me i have experience from tournaments. As much as you do.

You are just playing with words at the moment. I was intending the same. “What is my team suppose to do, what does it need to do that and where can I find it”.
I don’t see how this new feature will help the unbalaned setups against the all around good balanced ones, since they all seem to lose, but ok, we’ll wait and see I guess.

I don’t need to trust you, I need to think for myself and have my own ideas, also why are you trying to measure your epeen with me here?

Danto.6748:

Khayn.6475:

Danto.6748:

To find the best/most balanced setup you can simplify the process by asking yourself what do I need for my team and where can I find that. Do that, find what you need and that’s it. You don’t need to test everything like you are saying. Try to do it and let me know how many balanced all around setups you will find.
My current position is based on mine and other’s theorycrafting, as well as first hand experience from tournaments. The only thing I saw was an increase in Rangers and that’s about it. However Ranger teams seem like an easy matchup.

Again, I will repeat myself, teams now will try to go for balanced setups since you can’t swap utilities/weapons, but there aren’t THAT many balanced setups out there. I would be optimist to name you 10 (keep in mind I’m talking about balanced all around good setups that will have a good chance to win).

Your are approaching it the wrong way, is not “what do I need for my team and where can I find that” but, what do we want AS A TEAM and what do we need. Do we want be mobile? and be able to pressure constantly every point, ord do we want to be tanky and hold 2 points for the whole match?
everybody thinks this will take teams to just play more balance and it may be true right know, but this also opens more ways also to unbalanced teams with specifics tactics behind. Stuff that we have not seen yet.

And trust me i have experience from tournaments. As much as you do.

I don’t see how this new feature will help the unbalaned setups against the all around good balanced ones, since they all seem to lose, but ok, we’ll wait and see I guess.

That’s the point! we’ll see

I don’t need to trust you, I need to think for myself and have my own ideas, also why are you trying to measure your epeen with me here?

Forget it
I may have miss understood something you said

Dual.8953:

@Danto: So a bunch of teams will be running a certain kind of comp. whats to stop players from observing this, and building a new comp to counter that comp? And for that process to happen again and again into a loop. And isn’t what I just illustrated how a metagame works?
Also with Anet tweaking around all the time, certain skills are bound to be nerfed or buffed at some point, also skills that are perhaps too useful will stand out much more.
Anyways, build is hardly the only factor that decides a match, competence, teamwork and environment also play factors, and it’s also possible that someone clever might see major drawback in how most teams play the game (for example, 3 bunkers, 2 roamers) and find a comp that can undermind that strategy.

You can’t play 1 comp that counters another for a whole tournament? I mean the way you are seeing it is this: ok team A plays with this setup, let’s counter it with setup B, then you get in the match and team A is instead playing setup C.
You can’t hope to play a setup that will directly counter 1 team because that team might have more than just 1 setup. So instead you will try to go for a more balanced setup that will do good against most matchups. This is how’s it’s working at the moment.
I see your point tho, every team should have as many setups as possible and be able to play them and counter other teams with it. This is the true side of competitive gameplay, just like for LoL, but for now we don’t have THAT much diversity to put this into act.

The fact is that this QQ thread came out waaaaay too early. You may have a point but you can’t be sure yet. We are theorycrafting the theorycrafting right know.

The fact that there is not enough balanced builds and options doesnt have any connection to weapon swap.. well, the only connection is that you try to balance your build by weapon swap which works in theory but in fact it creates exactly opposite = unbalanced enviroment.

so.. what we will need is to have more viable options thats for sure, but dont forget. This is like any MMO outthere or even not an MMO but in any serious PVP there is METAGAME and thats basically what you have to know, what you have to addapt and learn. No matter if you can or can´t weapon swap and no matter if you have 1000 or 10 playable builds. THERE IS METAGAME on top of everything.. and you only need to be aware of it and keep an Eye on changes.. and adapt..

Lol man the metagame itself depends on that. And its not just about weapons swaps we are talking about here.

Khayn.6475:

Lol man the metagame itself depends on that. And its not just about weapons swaps we are talking about here.

Metagame is like a woman.. its always there, sometimes against you sometimes with you. But well, its true it depends on that, but not that it require it. There will be metagame no matter if there is or isn´t weapon swap.

ofc there will be but it may not be as restricted as it is now

I can understand that locking weapons makes balancing easier. I can understand that for example a D/D-ele changing to staff to destroy a treb is not intended. However, with weapons locked I think that mobility is imbalanced now. Engineers can easily (10 trait points) get speedy kits for nearly permanent swiftness. So bunker engineers can be very durable and very mobile at the same time, almost independent of their weapon or utility choice. Guardians however are very restricted in terms of mobility. With weapons locked, I think guardians need a mobility buff. Otherwise, they are forced into the role of immobile sand bag bunkers. A trait in the offensive trait lines would be good as an option for offensive guardians.

On a side note: I really miss the GW1 freedom to choose all your skills independently. The weapon choice in GW2 feels somewhat limiting the build variety to me. And the small choice of stat combinations on PvP amuletts makes it even worse, IMHO.

Engi got speed, but Guardians have stability aoe

Naito.5693:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

All I’m reading is “keep those ideas flowing, we’re here, we’re reading everything, however, we will still do whatever the kitten we want.”

And yeah, no kitten we’re doing a fantastic job. You, on the other hand, are not.

most people like the new change I dont get what you are talking about. Did you read the thread or is it just a trend to complain about arenanet now?

‘’No weapon swapping hurts competitive play’’ you could’ve said ‘’in my opinion this change…’‘, you don’t represent the competitive scene, you shouldn’t claim something so strongly, making people belive that all the top teams share this opinion.

For example us ’’SS’’ are welcoming this change, and apparently many other teams do aswell.
If could suggest something, i would propose a PvP only item, that you keep in the bag, and gives you 8 sec swiftness, 60 sec cd, only usable out of combat.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

no, please, if you have to lock something (and you should.), lock everything: characters, weapons, skills, traits, amulet, armor, once the match starts.

centaur runes new meta.

not even kidding.

Its like they originally gave you candy for dinner everyday, and now they took it away because you weren’t supposed to have it. Now people are complaining because they liked the treats.
No swap is better.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

Best update ever, I believe that you should go in with a fixed build as a team. And not suddenly change all that when out of combat.

It’s like playing rock, paper, scissors: you shake and then say i’m picking rock but you realize that the other person chose paper and you then suddenly switch to scissors.

So good implementation, people just have to deal with it that it wasn’t fair

bettadenu.5483:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Just wanted to jump in and say that I’m reading this thread and taking it all in. Keep it civil (don’t get yourselves banned! ) and let those ideas flow.

I know some of you are upset with the change, but really, this is something we were planning for a while. WE MAY NOT LOCK DOWN utilities down the road, so that you can still have some adjustment when out of combat, but at the same time, we do not think weapon swapping mid-match is good for the overall health of the game. Just wanted to remind you we are here, and I am watching the forums, and your ideas are being heard.

Keep it constructive (and really, overall you guys are doing a FANTASTIC JOB OF THIS!), and carry on!

Best update ever, I believe that you should go in with a fixed build as a team. And not suddenly change all that when out of combat.

It’s like playing rock, paper, scissors: you shake and then say i’m picking rock but you realize that the other person chose paper and you then suddenly switch to scissors.

So good implementation, people just have to deal with it that it wasn’t fair

Awful logic.

Assume A>B>C>A

If I run A and they run B, we wipe them, they could come back with C. Who’s to say we don’t swap to B? To finish your analogy, they see you swap to scissors and go rock.

You look at is as only one side can change things. Both sides can. It was the benefit of building traits that could be interchanged at a moments notice and change up your play style.

Limiting options is never a good idea. Ever. There are far too many key buffs required and too few of weapon sets to provide them. Not to mention completely useless weapon sets. All that’s been done is forced people into key weapon sets/utilities, and anything that isn’t perfect is tossed aside.

If this was a good change. If “less is more”, then remove weapon swapping all together. You can only play with one set. Can only be a GS warrior. A staff mesmer. A shortbow thief.

Sad to check in on GW2, still see no infrastructure, balance changes for whatever reason, and now no trait/weapon swapping.

Ace of Spades.6325:

‘’No weapon swapping hurts competitive play’’ you could’ve said ‘’in my opinion this change…’‘, you don’t represent the competitive scene, you shouldn’t claim something so strongly, making people belive that all the top teams share this opinion.

This man speaks the truth +1 from DI

I like the idea of utility swapping, even if it has a further drawback such as adding an additional 5(?) second initial cooldown to an ability that was just swapped in.

As well I think weapon swapping would be fine only inside the starting “bases” (and after a death) so that if things really aren’t working for your team and your utility adjustments can’t cover it there is still a chance for a comeback using different weapons.

Trait, armor, amulet, etc swapping just isn’t visible enough to your opponent (or spectators) and I like a stronger fixed/build meta.

Xeph.4513:

Personally I think that this is a good change, I have always found weapon swapping outside of combat to be rather cheesy; it offered mobility to classes the otherwise didn’t have access to it, it also means that people will now start thinking about new builds or picking up different traits to deal with this change.
It will be a nice meta game shake up, one that has been long over due, I know that this change has upset a lot of people, but I find it rather refreshing. I believe that this is how it was intended to be from the start, and I do understand that certain classes will be hurt by this more than others, but than again it will be interesting to see how teams adapt to these changes.
I just want to say that no meta game stays the same, there always needs to be a shake up to keep things fresh and interesting, things get stagnant if they remain the same for too long.
Also if you don’t want people knowing what your strats are and what you are running, than streaming is a bad choice, I know that its sad but you can’t really have your cake and eat it.
All in all, I just wanted to say that I think this is a good change, and I always thought that this change would be coming earlier, but its good that its finally here.

I also agree with the change to lock things down, but moreso to a controlled degree. This can also make things such as “composition loss” happen when you jump into a game and that is never good for something trying to reach a level of compeition. In most competative games there is a flow to the game in which one team attempts to counter what the other team is doing. In LoL this is done by what items they create, and although I think weapon swapping + utility swapping between each fight was a little much I don’t think it should be entirely eliminated.

So I thought to myself, what would be a nicer alternative to still allow for some diversity when a game starts. And I think today I finally came to an answer that might be acceptable to both “extremes” of this argument. First off I believe trait + armor/amu swapping should stay locked the full game, however I believe the respawn area should allow the swapping of weapons and utilities to try and adjust your teams build after a death to fend off “whatever” suprise the enemy has done. This would also allow for commentators to read strategy changes in the match and perhaps make it much more interesting for the viewers. I also think that simply allowing for utility swaps only for the full match is unfair due to certain classes (engie) having their kits replace their main weapons allowing for a higher ability for adaptation than other classes. Anyway those are just my thoughts