Guild Wars 2

NeXeD.3042:

Last time someone made this thread I tried to say it wasn’t op and every jumped down my throat saying it was…. now people defend it, the build isn’t op I do like it because it adds mobility and ways to stomp.

For this that think reapers protection is op, wtf should s necro always have to eat hard CC unless we have a pocket guardian oh noes we got one trait that helps against what everyone knows destroys necros oh noes….

BTW vee wee tell your team to relax with the god kitten ed treb, maybe I’ll actually get a team that won’t afk and won’t make the stupid staff ele go kill the treb.

The build is broken 1v1:
It always beats sd thief and usually beats dp
It always beats every engi
It beats all non glass warriors through kiting
It usually beats rangers
It usually beats guardians
It usually beats mesmers
It always beats eles

yeah for this build, nerf is necessary man, as many stated above. it is just too op and unbeatable, or, just untouchable becuz of perma fear", unless you specifically set all your build and utility to pwn only this build. the most op build I have ever seen during the life of this game, during around 2000 pvp rank games. only necros here are defending this build though.

So the build is OP because of the “million” of conditions necromancers place, the fears, or is it Rune of the Nightmare?

You guys just have to actively react to the passive.

Mia Crazymike.1780:

So the build is OP because of the “million” of conditions necromancers place, the fears, or is it Rune of the Nightmare?

It’s the fact that Doom, Nightmare Runes, are nigh impossible to counter. Reaper’s protection can be outplayed but there’s no telling when it’s going to happen so, that becomes problematic.

But overall, the way fear scales via traits is super strong when it becomes available via runes, as well.

If Rune of the Nightmare was reverted, or even changed on the 6pc bonus to something less obnoxious, it would remove a great chunk of the fear procs that are just out of nowhere.

What needs nerf?
Nightmare runes – long CD onetrick pony, not controlled by player
Trait reaper prot (maybe) – more reliable and protects necro from 1 cc
Zerker stance – the duration is broken and it should be -90% not full immunity

What needs buff?
Necro dealing with CC

There, for 1000th time written the same stuff. We necros mostly dont like the nightmare runes either we arent stupid.
But we need quite a few defensive buffs. Also i find it strange, that the more 1v1 focused NA cant deal with this, while every top500 EU player beats this with a team build

Yeah I think they should just remove all of necros hard CC all tof ether they shouldn’t be able to do anything other than be a ping pong ball.

Kitt.2567:

I am not saying that his build is strong becuz of its passive cheese things. I mean Noscoc is very skilled player and he know when to use fear to make its effect the best. but what I mean is that the build itself is extremely OP (perma fear + perma cond + very short cooltime between many fears). 3 fears within only 20 sec is just too much ( you know warrior’s “fear me”? we can use only 1 time within 48, or 60, sec. comparing this to his 3 fears within 20sec. it is just too much and OP) enough not to give any ATTACK CHANCE to his opponent while avoiding any his critical attack skills. I think Anet should shorten it a bit to make it balanced.

it would not OP if Anet designed that kinda build only become “only Close-fight GOD with perma fear and perma conds”. But the problem is that, this build also has pretty strong ranged attacks with its many minions. so it just become OP.

This fearbuild has been ingame from day one, i guess it’s the one viable build in spvp for necromancer. (there really isn’t any atm) but for good order lets say it is.

consider now the control effects that other professions have and compare all these controll effects and application to necromancer..

exactly.. you have no legs to stand on and are just mad you got proc-ed..

PS: i hate proc-ed fear too.. but again if it goes off i would be like ha! there eat it.. now you know how necromancer feels when you weapon attack us with any other profession.

Again.. fear is a Condition that can be passively cleansed, cleansed!
you can also cats stability so the fear chain breaks.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

This fearbuild has been ingame from day one, i guess it’s the one viable build in spvp for necromancer. (there really isn’t any atm) but for good order lets say it is.

consider now the control effects that other professions have and compare all these controll effects and application to necromancer..

Ok. With the buff to Nightmare runes, and Reaper’s Protection becoming meta, the Necromancer’s control effects has risen siginificantly compared to other professions. Engi Rifle and Warrior Hammer aren’t creeping up in control, that’s for sure.

This fear build has not been in the game since day one. Nightmare Runes 3s Fear is quite recent, I assure you. And it’s a bad bad idea.

Pretty sure any class can use nightmare runes…. ok how about this eles, engineers, and warriors shouldn’t be allowed to use sigil of battle anymore too op, also shouldn’t be allowed to have perma fire fields and a million blast finishers, theives shouldnt be allowed perma evade neither should rangers, guardians shouldnt be allowed to block everything, mesmers shouldn’t be allowed to perma stealth anything else anyone think they shouldn’t be allowed to do?

Chaith.8256:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

This fearbuild has been ingame from day one, i guess it’s the one viable build in spvp for necromancer. (there really isn’t any atm) but for good order lets say it is.

consider now the control effects that other professions have and compare all these controll effects and application to necromancer..

Ok. With the buff to Nightmare runes, and Reaper’s Protection becoming meta, the Necromancer’s control effects has risen siginificantly compared to other professions. Engi Rifle and Warrior Hammer aren’t creeping up in control, that’s for sure.

This fear build has not been in the game since day one. Nightmare Runes 3s Fear is quite recent, I assure you. And it’s a bad bad idea.

The build is around since the beginning. period. yes it had the proc and other runes 2 years a~kitten
, the runes are buffed, I couldn’t care less because i don;’t play this build of cheese and passives.
So, nerf the runes nerf the proc and give necro an extra non condition control effect on weapon skills so everyone will be happy right?

Go = now a curseword?

Chaith.8256:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

This fearbuild has been ingame from day one, i guess it’s the one viable build in spvp for necromancer. (there really isn’t any atm) but for good order lets say it is.

consider now the control effects that other professions have and compare all these controll effects and application to necromancer..

Ok. With the buff to Nightmare runes, and Reaper’s Protection becoming meta, the Necromancer’s control effects has risen siginificantly compared to other professions. Engi Rifle and Warrior Hammer aren’t creeping up in control, that’s for sure.

This fear build has not been in the game since day one. Nightmare Runes 3s Fear is quite recent, I assure you. And it’s a bad bad idea.

Still, his point is also that the Runes are stupid to run, since it is random, but he, and many other Necromancers, chose to run it as it is the option for this build… Nerf it and “everything is fine” – but do realize that the damage of a Condi Necromancer has been nerfed solely for the past year… What you see is an empty shell which relies on gimmicks, boon corruption, which is not much needed if you can remove/steal them more frequently (Mesmer/Thief)
I personally do not run them as I find Travelers a more solid option for both power and condition builds, but I really notice the difference in damage, while getting no personal sustain back in return – I manage, but barely, and compared to many of the other options I have to pick in PvP for classes, I sometimes do need to shy away from Necromancer because I lack the extra oomph….

And sadly, I disagree that the control of an Engi has not increased, it roughly stayed the same, but instead of shying away from the classic Decap with Flamethrower, they now run turrets with AoE knockbacks, ensuring nice and clean decaps… Suboptimal maybe? Still not as much as a decrease as many would’ve loved to see, which is shown by nerfing the knockback trait… Hammer Warriors stayed the same… Sadly…

Anyway less personal now, bottom line and something that has been opted over and over, get rid or re-itterate Runes of Nightmare and Reaper’s Protection – both are random, unreliable and just not fun at to play – all the other Fears can be counted upon (Even the “instant Doom”), or simply “countered” by stability…
If your problems are the fact that Fear is a way for Necromancers to deal damage… Meh, there are other games out there… I wanted to play a Curses Necromancer like I used to, but am now a Fear/Spam1towin Necromancer… Yaaaaaay…

People should stop bringing up the argument that every class could use Nightmare Runes. Other classes don’t have Terror and Terror Master which makes the fear-proc way stronger than on any other class apart from condi war with Distracting Strikes maybe.

Apart from that necro is far from being op. The passive fear-procs that people keep bringing up are gimmicks at best.

When I’m playing against these kind of necros the Nightmare Rune usually procs on the first Smite hit or something fearing me out of the necromancers range meaning that it’s just arround 2k free damage on 90s cooldown if I don’t just cleanse it with smite condi.

Reapers Protection doesn’t have the biggest range, I can usually pull them from max range and I’m not getting feared or I just insta cleanse/stunbreak it and burst them anyways.

Both of these procs are just one trick ponies on huge cooldowns that aren’t even doing that much most of the times. The only class I really see getting wrecked by these procs is thief, now that everybody is playing trickery steal which procs reapers prot and they don’t use much cleanse anymore. Most decent builds have tools to deal with these kind of necros tbh.

This is just the same as the Sigil of paralyzation proc, Arenanet has just not done the math on this or something.. and then are like Oh……….. :/

Keksmuffin.1450:

People should stop bringing up the argument that every class could use Nightmare Runes. Other classes don’t have Terror and Terror Master which makes the fear-proc way stronger than on any other class apart from condi war with Distracting Strikes maybe.

Apart from that necro is far from being op. The passive fear-procs that people keep bringing up are gimmicks at best.

When I’m playing against these kind of necros the Nightmare Rune usually procs on the first Smite hit or something fearing me out of the necromancers range meaning that it’s just arround 2k free damage on 90s cooldown if I don’t just cleanse it with smite condi.

Reapers Protection doesn’t have the biggest range, I can usually pull them from max range and I’m not getting feared or I just insta cleanse/stunbreak it and burst them anyways.

Both of these procs are just one trick ponies on huge cooldowns that aren’t even doing that much most of the times. The only class I really see getting wrecked by these procs is thief, now that everybody is playing trickery steal which procs reapers prot and they don’t use much cleanse anymore. Most decent builds have tools to deal with these kind of necros tbh.

I am glad that you as a DPS guardian spoke up, and you are right, the build is “fine”, if you are not a fully fledged condition build without many cleanses, and like you say, you can build to prepare for it – which most builds already do… What the OP also implies is that he doesn’t want to correct his build, he only wants other builds nerfed…

Thing is though, I get the general concerns, but in my opinion you have to draw a line as well… Removing these two would also mean to remove Mirror of Anguish, Transmute, Shared Anguish etc etc… People oftentimes overlook the many passive traits within the game imho… I get that fears can hurt when traited on Necromancer’s, but passive traits like these are not healthy in general, and not something that is exclusive to a Necromancer…

Keksmuffin.1450:

People should stop bringing up the argument that every class could use Nightmare Runes. Other classes don’t have Terror and Terror Master which makes the fear-proc way stronger than on any other class apart from condi war with Distracting Strikes maybe.

Apart from that necro is far from being op. The passive fear-procs that people keep bringing up are gimmicks at best.

When I’m playing against these kind of necros the Nightmare Rune usually procs on the first Smite hit or something fearing me out of the necromancers range meaning that it’s just arround 2k free damage on 90s cooldown if I don’t just cleanse it with smite condi.

Reapers Protection doesn’t have the biggest range, I can usually pull them from max range and I’m not getting feared or I just insta cleanse/stunbreak it and burst them anyways.

Both of these procs are just one trick ponies on huge cooldowns that aren’t even doing that much most of the times. The only class I really see getting wrecked by these procs is thief, now that everybody is playing trickery steal which procs reapers prot and they don’t use much cleanse anymore. Most decent builds have tools to deal with these kind of necros tbh.

Double cleanse medi guard is probably one of the hardest matchups for necro. The fact that a necro can still win almost half the time in its toughest matchup shows how strong this spec is.

Keksmuffin.1450:

People should stop bringing up the argument that every class could use Nightmare Runes. Other classes don’t have Terror and Terror Master which makes the fear-proc way stronger than on any other class apart from condi war with Distracting Strikes maybe.

Apart from that necro is far from being op. The passive fear-procs that people keep bringing up are gimmicks at best.

When I’m playing against these kind of necros the Nightmare Rune usually procs on the first Smite hit or something fearing me out of the necromancers range meaning that it’s just arround 2k free damage on 90s cooldown if I don’t just cleanse it with smite condi.

Reapers Protection doesn’t have the biggest range, I can usually pull them from max range and I’m not getting feared or I just insta cleanse/stunbreak it and burst them anyways.

Both of these procs are just one trick ponies on huge cooldowns that aren’t even doing that much most of the times. The only class I really see getting wrecked by these procs is thief, now that everybody is playing trickery steal which procs reapers prot and they don’t use much cleanse anymore. Most decent builds have tools to deal with these kind of necros tbh.

The biggest problem I see with this build is that fear is basically a must-cleanse condi. With the two passive fears on top of the two on-demand fears and corrupt boon, it adds up to the necro having 4-5 must-cleanse long CCs that they can put out in a 1v1, which overloads the condi clears of the vast majority of builds. Any trait that can automatically CC an opponent for 3.5s and deal them 3k damage is pretty strong indeed.

he uses the same build everyone does…. hes just a very good player that’s it

First of all, his necromancer has no mobility, and tpvp is a team game based on mobility, and so his build could go 1v1 and win against anybody and still be underpowered.

Second, nightmare runes and reapers protection have very long cool downs, so pop your berzerker stance, & hit your hammer and he is down to corrupt boon, staff 5, and Terror. Once those are gone he is a ping pong ball.

I realize people hate playing against all those fears, but playing a terrormancer without that set up is a vastly different experience. Try it for yourself. The issue is that the class needs some improvements overall to survivability and/or damage and then nerfing or changing the runes and reapers protection to keep it in line.

spectral walk and flesh worm apparently can’t kite a warrior for 8 seconds now. Lel

Nightmare runes and reaper’s protection are just bad game design. They support having bad positioning and getting hit by attacks you should otherwise avoid. They need to either be shortened substantially in duration or have a condition that needs to be met that takes active play by the necro, like dhuum fire.

It is just cancer to fight in 1v1s because you are not beaten by the player but by there passive procs, it feels like fighting a mm or turret engi.

Chaith.8256:

Mia Crazymike.1780:

So the build is OP because of the “million” of conditions necromancers place, the fears, or is it Rune of the Nightmare?

It’s the fact that Doom, Nightmare Runes, are nigh impossible to counter. Reaper’s protection can be outplayed but there’s no telling when it’s going to happen so, that becomes problematic.

But overall, the way fear scales via traits is super strong when it becomes available via runes, as well.

If Rune of the Nightmare was reverted, or even changed on the 6pc bonus to something less obnoxious, it would remove a great chunk of the fear procs that are just out of nowhere.

Anet could just give them all a small cast time. For instance, when you CC a necro, you would see Dhuum pop up over his head and then you get feared, just like the downed state ability. Same thing for when the Nightmare rune procs on any prof.

I think that would definitely give it some counter play.

“Positioning” might not be the answer to all concerns. Sure, there certainly is the possibility to position yourself really badly but on the other hand this game also has lots of gap closer and teleport abilities to completely negate some benefits of positioning.

On another note, the build diminishes some of the biggest weaknesses of the necromancer: Fighting drawn out fights by enhancing terror burst capabilities (rune and reapers prot have rather “lengthy” cooldowns) and to a low extend giving some form of innate “self peeling” capability, while combining it with some mobility.

Still, necro relies on condi burst to be a threat, even after dhuumfire nerf and since there won’t be any significant changes to utilities and traits, it seems like the build will stay for some time.

One of the major problems, imo, is the lack of the animations. The mark casts all look the same, the DS 2 skill that teleports you has no animation (If you have Bifrost (which Nos does I believe)), and there are 3 fears with no cast time which makes it rather difficult to counter play.

In the end it’s just design flaw. It’s the same thing with fighting scepter eles. Since most of the stuff is instant cast or has poor animations, the only way to fight it is to random dodge. Which, against a good player, means you are dead.

Eurantien.4632:

One of the major problems, imo, is the lack of the animations. The mark casts all look the same, the DS 2 skill that teleports you has no animation (If you have Bifrost (which Nos does I believe)), and there are 3 fears with no cast time which makes it rather difficult to counter play.

In the end it’s just design flaw. It’s the same thing with fighting scepter eles. Since most of the stuff is instant cast or has poor animations, the only way to fight it is to random dodge. Which, against a good player, means you are dead.

I’d like a clearer indication of when a mark is being cast, also different colored animations while a mark is being cast would be nice.

The marks actually can be distinquished into two categories. I believe its that the marks with the swirly icon are CC marks and the marks with the skull icon are condi dmg/damage marks.

I just want to see a clearer indicator for the CC marks so I know when to dodge, since they can be cast right on top of you.

Eurantien.4632:

One of the major problems, imo, is the lack of the animations. The mark casts all look the same, the DS 2 skill that teleports you has no animation (If you have Bifrost (which Nos does I believe)), and there are 3 fears with no cast time which makes it rather difficult to counter play.

In the end it’s just design flaw. It’s the same thing with fighting scepter eles. Since most of the stuff is instant cast or has poor animations, the only way to fight it is to random dodge. Which, against a good player, means you are dead.

On marks I have to agree, I dislike dodging marks, even though I do not know which one is on the floor… When playing Ele, I hate being chilled, so I tend to dodge more than often when seeing marks – this needs a change, or a better tell (floating icons above the marks?)
It will also make adept Necromancers better at casting the marks at a moving target, for they know they will mis a key ability otherwise…

Doom, Deathshroud’s third skill, is not meant to be an offensive ability though… Yes, it is oftentimes used like that, but the way I see it was interpret, was whenever you get CC’d, you’d pop DS and then cast Doom from the floor to give yourself room to stand again… Giving Doom a casttime would make it horrible when getting CC’d since the Necromancer’s anti-CC options are not that good (Foot in the Grave, whoohoo)…
I’d argue giving Doom a tell, but then they should also make it a stunbreak to compensate imho, to give it the intended purpose… Maybe even going as far as designing it like the Warrior’s fear me, but single targetted and a stunbreak…

Dark Path is just a thing with projectiles, and the no-tell, as I can read, comes from Bifrost, and not the skill itself… Sadly, as a Necromancer, I know it is fairly clunky to actually play with… you need to be at least in melee range to land it, and make sure there is no terrain, other mobs or unintended targets along the way or you would’ve lost your corrupt…

Umm Dark Path is like a heat seeking missile from the days of old. I strafe that thing just like any other projectile and it turns at right angles to chase me down. Not to mention, you don’t need to be directly facing your target to cast it.

As for the 3 fears with no cast time. The fear on DS 3 is fine. I’d even say Reaper’s protection is fine, but I think runes of the nightmare, as well as any runes with passive play, like grove are dumb and poorly designed.

The only way I can see to truly combat this build is to wear runes of the nightmare myself, my fear lasts longer, I have better passives, I’ll probably win.

Eurantien.4632:

Umm Dark Path is like a heat seeking missile from the days of old. I strafe that thing just like any other projectile and it turns at right angles to chase me down. Not to mention, you don’t need to be directly facing your target to cast it.

As for the 3 fears with no cast time. The fear on DS 3 is fine. I’d even say Reaper’s protection is fine, but I think runes of the nightmare, as well as any runes with passive play, like grove are dumb and poorly designed.

The only way I can see to truly combat this build is to wear runes of the nightmare myself, my fear lasts longer, I have better passives, I’ll probably win.

Meh, on average, I kind of have quite horrible experience with DP not hitting reliably, but it might just be me, since I can also get an “obstructed” message on Graveyard when 1v1’ing on several projectiles

Runes of the Nightmare are a bad joke… I am not even going to debate whether it is, because it is, and luckily, I said so multiple times in this thread…
And whether you think Reapers’ Protection is fine or not, I like to think it is not, but I have a passionate hatred for all passive traits which roughly do the same… It is unreliable for the user, annoying for the enemy and just bad design to “help” to overcome weaknesses of the classes…

The only thing that’s bullkitten about noscoc’s build is nightmare. That kitten passive fear is just incredibly frustrating and a huge fight changer.

Everything else, except for path of corruption (not exactly a broken trait. It’s easily dodged/blinded and is boon dependent), has been in the game forever.

Yes, the build is the strongest necros have now. That doesn’t mean it needs to be nerfed cuz you got rekt son

bring stability against a nec seems first of logical…but try to run as ranger with RaO into a nec in skyhammer.
he just smiles and converts your stability to fear xD

I am not saying this simply becuz i lost to him. this build was just too much overwhelming that shows completely broken balances. i have seen tons of builds so far around 2000 games in pvp ladder, sometimes i lose and win over them, But this build was just untouchable. Again, there should have been at least only 3sec that allow opponent to attack without reference to whether having stability or not if this isnt broken balance.

Kitt.2567:

I am not saying this simply becuz i lost to him. this build was just too much overwhelming that shows completely broken balances. i have seen tons of builds sometimes i lose and win but this build was just untouchable.

A month ago Zombi and Nos both ran the build in the 2v2s and lost in the finals.

I think it was hard countered by Diamond Skin iirc

Kitt.2567:

I am not saying this simply becuz i lost to him in duel. this build was just too much overwhelming in duel that shows completely broken balances. i have seen tons of builds so far around 2000 games in pvp ladder, sometimes i lose but also win over high ranked people by a head, But this build was just untouchable. Again, there should have been at least only 3sec ,between each interval of fear, that allow opponent to attack without reference to whether having stability or not if this isnt broken balance.

Kitt.2567:

Kitt.2567:

I am not saying this simply becuz i lost to him in duel. this build was just too much overwhelming in duel that shows completely broken balances.

“I am not saying this simply becuz i lost to him in duel. "

“this build was just too much overwhelming in duel”

“in duel that shows completely broken balances.”

I see…. i see.

Shockwave.1230:

Kitt.2567:

I am not saying this simply becuz i lost to him. this build was just too much overwhelming that shows completely broken balances. i have seen tons of builds sometimes i lose and win but this build was just untouchable.

A month ago Zombi and Nos both ran the build in the 2v2s and lost in the finals.

I think it was hard countered by Diamond Skin iirc

Of course. I am talking about dueling, not 2vs2.

Kitt.2567:

Shockwave.1230:

Kitt.2567:

I am not saying this simply becuz i lost to him. this build was just too much overwhelming that shows completely broken balances. i have seen tons of builds sometimes i lose and win but this build was just untouchable.

A month ago Zombi and Nos both ran the build in the 2v2s and lost in the finals.

I think it was hard countered by Diamond Skin iirc

Of course. I am talking about dueling, not 2vs2.

Game is balanced around what now?

Shockwave.1230:

Kitt.2567:

Shockwave.1230:

Kitt.2567:

I am not saying this simply becuz i lost to him. this build was just too much overwhelming that shows completely broken balances. i have seen tons of builds sometimes i lose and win but this build was just untouchable.

A month ago Zombi and Nos both ran the build in the 2v2s and lost in the finals.

I think it was hard countered by Diamond Skin iirc

Of course. I am talking about dueling, not 2vs2.

Game is balanced around what now?

and also, double condition of same type in team fight isnt good idea at all, you know it, right?

A war should never lose to a condi necro. Everytime I play my war, necros are the least of my problems. This is an easy match up for a warrior.

ghaleon.2861:

A war should never lose to a condi necro. Everytime I play my war, necros are the least of my problems. This is an easy match up for a warrior.

i am not saying about definition like that you said which class should pwn which class easily. I know, war could win nec easily with balanced, and berserker stance combo stuff that just become immune to cond. but i do not think that should be corrrect way to balance the game actually, that specific build should pwn specific build easily. why? With this kinda way of making builds, it make each builds look very cheap then. (Becuz it works for just specific thing only, just like you set pulling engi build for ****ing skyhammer only) As i told you, whether or not having stability, even though you got all his fear, however, there must be like 3 sec that i can perform any attack between each interval of fear, if i can’t becuz of perma fear, its balance is broken.

Yeah, also Reversely, if war can pwn nec with berserker and balanced stance So that easily, then just nerf both stnace as well as necro fear interval would be ideal to balance game then. perosonally i think berserker stance’s complete immune to cond for 10sec since last patch is op though.

Chaith.8256:

Ok. With the buff to Nightmare runes, and Reaper’s Protection becoming meta, the Necromancer’s control effects has risen siginificantly compared to other professions. Engi Rifle and Warrior Hammer aren’t creeping up in control, that’s for sure.

This fear build has not been in the game since day one. Nightmare Runes 3s Fear is quite recent, I assure you. And it’s a bad bad idea.

So, I’m confused. I’ve been lurking the forum looking for specific balance changes that will get me to play this game again. What rune buffs? Do you mean from the April 2014 balance patch?

zone.1073:

Chaith.8256:

Ok. With the buff to Nightmare runes, and Reaper’s Protection becoming meta, the Necromancer’s control effects has risen siginificantly compared to other professions. Engi Rifle and Warrior Hammer aren’t creeping up in control, that’s for sure.

This fear build has not been in the game since day one. Nightmare Runes 3s Fear is quite recent, I assure you. And it’s a bad bad idea.

So, I’m confused. I’ve been lurking the forum looking for specific balance changes that will get me to play this game again. What rune buffs? Do you mean from the April 2014 balance patch?

Yeah.. before April balance patch, even with a 30/20/0/0/20 build, all a Necro could achieve from Nightmare Rune proc was 1.95 seconds..

Now it’s been bumped to 2 seconds base, and you get feared for 3.3-3.5 seconds (depending on rounding..?) when you poke a necromancer, with the new 0/6/4/0/4

It’s really the only thing that needs to be changed a bit.

Chaith.8256:

zone.1073:

Chaith.8256:

Ok. With the buff to Nightmare runes, and Reaper’s Protection becoming meta, the Necromancer’s control effects has risen siginificantly compared to other professions. Engi Rifle and Warrior Hammer aren’t creeping up in control, that’s for sure.

This fear build has not been in the game since day one. Nightmare Runes 3s Fear is quite recent, I assure you. And it’s a bad bad idea.

So, I’m confused. I’ve been lurking the forum looking for specific balance changes that will get me to play this game again. What rune buffs? Do you mean from the April 2014 balance patch?

Yeah.. before April balance patch, even with a 30/20/0/0/20 build, all a Necro could achieve from Nightmare Rune proc was 1.95 seconds..

Now it’s been bumped to 2 seconds base, and you get feared for 3.3-3.5 seconds (depending on rounding..?) when you poke a necromancer, with the new 0/6/4/0/4

It’s really the only thing that needs to be changed a bit.

Honestly I would prefer if the removed the fear proc entirely. It’s an RNG stun with a long enough cooldown to not be in anyone’s control.

I’ve seriously been CC’d by a downed necro while cleaving his body, feared by his 2 as he gets rezzed and then killed before I get out of fear FOUR TIMES since the buff. I’ve been keeping count

All the passive crap should just be removed. I play necromancer and I literally hate playing with nightmare and reapers because it does not feel rewarding to play. The 0/6/4/0/4 build is really good in 1v1’s but shines less in bigger fights. All the enemy teams thief need to do is headshot the necro once or twice and both passives will most likely be gone. To be honest the old 6/4/0/0/4 build is better in most scenarios, because it actually has damage outside of passive fears. But it is ‘harder’ to play.

I’ve watched Noscocs stream a couple of times and the amount of 1v1’s he has won because of passive fears and not skillful play is mindblowing. It basically allows him to randomly turn a fight to his advantage without actively setting it up.

Just bad game design! A big no no!

Cause 6/4/xx was any better ? randomly proccing dhuumfire….
Players can be skilled and make conditions build even stronger, but imo conditions builds were a bad idea from the start.
It would be much more fun to have conditions only as a tool to make direct damage easier, putting pressure on the target with poison and maybe confusion too, but mainly cripple / chill / immobilize, not all that burning 20+ bleeds, torment.

Booms.2594:

NeXeD.3042:

Last time someone made this thread I tried to say it wasn’t op and every jumped down my throat saying it was…. now people defend it, the build isn’t op I do like it because it adds mobility and ways to stomp.

For this that think reapers protection is op, wtf should s necro always have to eat hard CC unless we have a pocket guardian oh noes we got one trait that helps against what everyone knows destroys necros oh noes….

BTW vee wee tell your team to relax with the god kitten ed treb, maybe I’ll actually get a team that won’t afk and won’t make the stupid staff ele go kill the treb.

The build is broken 1v1:
It always beats sd thief and usually beats dp
It always beats every engi
It beats all non glass warriors through kiting
It usually beats rangers
It usually beats guardians
It usually beats mesmers
It always beats eles

ele and guardians should be fine I guess. I guess it is close vs warrior. And I guess it is not so easy to fear a mesmer for them because nightmare will not proc on the mesmer attack but on the attacks of his clones.

This build is indeed OP 1v1.
Because it has so many fear yet so many stab removal and so many soft CC.

Simon.3794:

This build is indeed OP 1v1.
Because it has so many fear yet so many stab removal and so many soft CC.

Very descriptive, but I can play this game too:

S/F Ele is so OP – it has way too many CC’s, soft CC’s, instacasts, teleports, reflects, projectile negations, and invulnerabilities

Hambow is so OP – it has way too many CC’s, way too much burning, way too much stability, way too much condition cleanse and condition negations

Mesmer is so OP – it has way too much CC’s, way too high damage from range, way too many teleports, and boon removal

I could go on for a while, but I prefer not to… Instead of saying a class is OP because "It has way too many “x”, you might want to elaborate on where the problems actually are, and those are already mentioned a couple of times…

Also, by your logic, a Necromancer Terror/Corrupt build should just not exist because it has way too much of everything… Or did you not bother to look up a build and see what they don’t have?

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Simon.3794:

This build is indeed OP 1v1.
Because it has so many fear yet so many stab removal and so many soft CC.

Very descriptive, but I can play this game too:

S/F Ele is so OP – it has way too many CC’s, soft CC’s, instacasts, teleports, reflects, projectile negations, and invulnerabilities

Hambow is so OP – it has way too many CC’s, way too much burning, way too much stability, way too much condition cleanse and condition negations

Mesmer is so OP – it has way too much CC’s, way too high damage from range, way too many teleports, and boon removal

I could go on for a while, but I prefer not to… Instead of saying a class is OP because "It has way too many “x”, you might want to elaborate on where the problems actually are, and those are already mentioned a couple of times…

Also, by your logic, a Necromancer Terror/Corrupt build should just not exist because it has way too much of everything… Or did you not bother to look up a build and see what they don’t have?

Hmm what, SF ele has too many CC? where you got that from, do you even play the same game as i do? and they rarely even have any soft CCs. and only one teleport with 40 CD

Hambow sure, it has too many CC, but they cant strip your stab, once you have stab on, their CCs are pretty much useless, also their CCs are telegraphed. unlike insta cast fear, yolododge that kitten.

Mesmers CC arent even that hard compare to fear chain necrom, but mesmers are good 1v1ers too, but they are extremely squishy, specially against thieves and conditions as lockdown or shatter.

Simon.3794:

Hmm what, SF ele has too many CC? where you got that from, do you even play the same game as i do? and they rarely even have any soft CCs.

Hambow sure, it has too many CC, but they cant strip your stab, once you have stab on, their CCs are pretty much useless, also their CCs are telegraphed. unlike insta cast, yolododge that kitten.

Mesmers CC arent even that hard compare to fear chain necro.

Baselessly overreacting is fun, just as you did in your original post;

S/F Ele has Gale as a knockdown, and Meteor as a Daze, I do not know from which game you come from, but those are CC’s
The soft CC’s comes from Freezing Gust, which as the name implies, inflicts Chill

Warriors have the option to run double stability if they want to, and with Berserker Stance, or many uptime of other boons, see priorities , you would not have to worry about being feared… It might do wonders to get some info before you spout things

And lastly, you do not want to fight me as an interrupt Mesmer – trust me, I made people cry for less

My point was not comparing these classes around the board though, my point was that you came to this thread to give some feedback – which is great, I am personally very outspoken against the random procs that tick for damage – however, what you did was giving no examples, no information and went on to baselessly accuse Necromancers from having "too many ‘x’ "even though this logic can be applied to all classes…
So in short, create more beef to your posts and for the love of God, get yourself informed before you say stuff like this… A typical Terror/Corrupt Necromancer has Corrupt Boon and Path of Corruption to corrupt your boons, with PoC on a 15s cooldown, slow projectile and corrupting two boons, wheras Corrupt Boon has 5 on a 40s cooldown – and neither of those prioritize Stability…