Guild Wars 2

Effusion.4831:

Frizz.6704:

Effusion.4831:

Frizz, how pray tell is a mesmer supposed to play without relying on clones and phantasms?

You still have clones etc. They didn’t take them away.

Okay, so shatter builds? You think phantasms were op and mesmers should be playing shatter builds?

Yes, this is exactly what people have been saying.

It’s hilarious people are complaining about things like phantasms when they do terrible damage and can be 1 shotted while shatter build is what;s actually killing people.

People have no idea what it is that’s killing them and just like to complain about everything. I’m sure if they remove illusions completely people will still tell mesmers it was a needed “nerf”.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Frizz.6704:

LonelyReaper.8075:

The problem Frizz is you don’t play a mesmer, or main 1 i guess( assumption). So i will explain , yes phantasm is our main source of dmg, pvper don’t like fighting AI. Mesmer is one and only class that uses illusion(pets) that need good aoe to clear them and make them unusable( which is a problem). So let me ask you why do you bring a break stun utility in your utility slot. Becuz it is to counter stun-lock burst. So now, when it comes to mesmer, why don’t you have a aoe skill with you or kill the illusion, then lots of reason pop up like too much hassle to why a skill to counter 1 class.

Lonely, I see your point in terms of PVE and I think it is a valid one. I shouldn’t have dismissed your complaint on that outright and for that I apologise. But in terms of PvP I believe that the increased cooldown was needed as mesmers were cloning themselves so fast that even after an AOE you would have another three mesmers looking back at you. It just means that Mesmers are going to have to think about when they make their clones and use them wisely, and I think this is a good idea, because people should be making intelligent choices about when to use their skills rather than mass producing them. I feel your main complaint is with PVE though and I understand it is not fun playing Mesmer for that….

Thats the point i am fighting for! But i too still feel that increasing the cd on phantasm will not make it better, now every1 will use shatter build which shred better than phantasm build vs 1v1. The class is too complex to balance, they really did a bad job on implementing such a wonderful idea.

Shatter build is going to be a problem you and Effusion are probably right on that.

LonelyReaper.8075:

@Braxxus: 1 build is not fine!They promise variety not cookie cutter single masses build, which they are pigeon holing us into.

lol

Sorry was just kind of rubbing it in a bit I guess since my preferred tpvp build wasn’t altered in any significant way at all.

I guess if you were a “pet” pvper then yes it sucks, but as harsh as it sounds I never really had any great sympathy for AI based builds/players in any game on any class in any area (pve or pvp).

Always seemed like the iffy-kinda-botting-but not really botting cause the devs put it into the game this way manner of gaming.

That said I believe other shatter builds are still fine as well, so it’s not just one build.

Mesmers are full or counters, which work really well 1v1 which make them so powerful. Phantasm feel op because now you have to figure out what the mesmer gonna do to prevent you from doing ur standard macro. I usually will command that most players on the forum does not know what a mesmers is that why they lose. The way to beat a mesmer is to think like that and what their gonna do and counter their counter, which usually end up in a long drawn out fight among elitetist and utterly devastating fight against the noobs.

This really won’t do much to help the bad players struggling against Mesmers in spvp.

It will only hurt Mesmers leveling ability and their viability in dungeons.

Then when the traits are fixed, the whole thing will need to be rebalanced.

Basically, ANet is overworked and these Mesmer changes are wasted effort.

LonelyReaper.8075:

@Braxxus: 1 build is not fine!They promise variety not cookie cutter single masses build, which they are pigeon holing us into.

one build??

if you played only one then its your problem. I played different roles and different playstyle with my mesmer and this nerf is not going to stop it..

the only weapon i see as not usefull is scepter.. (maybe i will figure out later a good build with scepter)

Frizz.6704:

Effusion.4831:

Frizz.6704:

Effusion.4831:

Frizz, how pray tell is a mesmer supposed to play without relying on clones and phantasms?

You still have clones etc. They didn’t take them away.

Okay, so shatter builds? You think phantasms were op and mesmers should be playing shatter builds?

I agree with that call.

Alright, it’s just that the way that you were posting made it sound like you though mesmers should be relying on weapon attacks or something. I think building for shatter in pvp is actually much stronger than building for phantasms anyway.

Senai.1804:

Effusion.4831:

Frizz.6704:

Effusion.4831:

Frizz, how pray tell is a mesmer supposed to play without relying on clones and phantasms?

You still have clones etc. They didn’t take them away.

Okay, so shatter builds? You think phantasms were op and mesmers should be playing shatter builds?

Yes, this is exactly what people have been saying.

It’s hilarious people are complaining about things like phantasms when they do terrible damage and can be 1 shotted while shatter build is what;s actually killing people.

People have no idea what it is that’s killing them and just like to complain about everything. I’m sure if they remove illusions completely people will still tell mesmers it was a needed “nerf”.

You gotta understand though that it can be incredibly frustrating having to fight against a skilless player who rolled Mesmer and just farts out clones etc and wins …and they didn’t actually do anything other than mass produce clones. Now i know about dodging, AOE’s, and the difference between shatter builds and clones. But Mesmers are without a doubt the easiest 1 v 1 spec to do well with. The number of Mesmers has increased a LOT in warzones and there is a reason for it. Now for people like yourself who actually want to play a Mesmer, and didn’t just pick it because it was OP at dueling, then you are getting a rough deal. But you must at least acknowledge that the problem exists and it ruins the enjoyment for other players?

Effusion.4831:

Frizz.6704:

Effusion.4831:

Frizz.6704:

Effusion.4831:

Frizz, how pray tell is a mesmer supposed to play without relying on clones and phantasms?

You still have clones etc. They didn’t take them away.

Okay, so shatter builds? You think phantasms were op and mesmers should be playing shatter builds?

I agree with that call.

Alright, it’s just that the way that you were posting made it sound like you though mesmers should be relying on weapon attacks or something. I think building for shatter in pvp is actually much stronger than building for phantasms anyway.

No I think Mesmers should be able to use their illusions etc. I like that about them. But the way it stands is they produce them too fast. They should think about when they pop them out. I still think good Mesmers will still be good in PvP. The PVE thing I don’t know….

LonelyReaper.8075:

Mesmers are full or counters, which work really well 1v1 which make them so powerful. Phantasm feel op because now you have to figure out what the mesmer gonna do to prevent you from doing ur standard macro.

Um…

Phantasm builds didn’t really do anything to make people “figure out” anything tbh. Phantasm is pretty simple to figure out for most people:

Dude summons alot of crap to hide himself
Dude’s AI minions do some burst
Need to drop heavy AOE on Dude AND AI pets

I mean, when you’re talking about “vs noobs” a phantasm build was all about “summon my kitten, then hide until I need to resummon again. collect free kills” in SPvP matches. Hell I used it as my lulz spec for when I was just goofing off glory farming in SPvP cause it let you watch tv or do something else while still “winning fights”.

The only thing I can figure with this change is that ArenaNet believes that stacked phantasms are too powerful.

In some ways I agree, but I believe that this is the wrong approach. A better solution would have been thus:

1. Unlink clones and phantasms. Clones now “attach” to the Mesmer and phantasms “attach” to the target (like they currently do).

2. Only one Phantasm can be active on any one target; attaching a new phantasm to a target destroys the original.

3. Only three clones can be on the field at any one time. Creating a new clone when three are active destroys the oldest clone.

4. Shatter skills only consume clones.

5. Clones have a maximum lifespan of one minute and disappear if the Mesmer falls out of combat. Phantasms have no time limit given their current limitation.

Given these new limitations on phantasms, they could be buffed to have larger health pools and convey greater utility for the Mesmer. Some phantasms could be made to be almost entirely utility. Picking the right phantasm for the target would become important.

Long cooldowns would make sense, and targets of phantasms would be encouraged to drop what they are doing and try to kill the phantasm, which in turn encourages the Mesmer to try to keep the phantasm alive or to trick the target by using a disposable phantasm first then throwing the “real” phantasm at them after the kill the less-desirable one.

Perhaps more importantly, Mesmers could use their Shatter skills more frequently without worrying about consuming the tactically valuable phantasms in the process.

Braxxus.2904:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Mesmers are full or counters, which work really well 1v1 which make them so powerful. Phantasm feel op because now you have to figure out what the mesmer gonna do to prevent you from doing ur standard macro.

Um…

Phantasm builds didn’t really do anything to make people “figure out” anything tbh. Phantasm is pretty simple to figure out for most people:

Dude summons alot of crap to hide himself
Dude’s AI minions do some burst
Need to drop heavy AOE on Dude AND AI pets

I mean, when you’re talking about “vs noobs” a phantasm build was all about “summon my kitten, then hide until I need to resummon again. collect free kills” in SPvP matches. Hell I used it as my lulz spec for when I was just goofing off glory farming in SPvP cause it let you watch tv or do something else while still “winning fights”.

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

@Braxxus: Every1 is entitled to their opinion, but mesmer shatter build is still an AI pet players just in a different manner. We aren’t like those traditional pet players that afk and have their pets running around killing whatever in aggro range. We are most like a tactician, planning our pieces in the battlefield and commanding them to do what their suppose to do. Phantasm is like a defensive build, players fighting them will be put up against lets say a castle under siege, mesmer the castle, which is highly fortified by counters and our phantasm = our cannon which continuously bombard the attacking force and that them out. For shatter build is like a assault team, you set your pieces in places rdy for an assault and at the right moment where there an opening you command your squad or team to take them out. Its different play style, still same base mechanic, so i still consider shatter an AI build too.

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

You’re welcome?

;)

Hell it’s true, and only silly silly people could try and argue that “phantasm” builds are basically for being lazy with gameplay. It’s like necro’s from AoC, or beastmaster RanGARZ from early on in the devil’s MMO.

“Summon programs, have them fight, I got better kitten to do with my time”

XD

Frizz.6704:

Braxxus.2904:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Mesmers are full or counters, which work really well 1v1 which make them so powerful. Phantasm feel op because now you have to figure out what the mesmer gonna do to prevent you from doing ur standard macro.

Um…

Phantasm builds didn’t really do anything to make people “figure out” anything tbh. Phantasm is pretty simple to figure out for most people:

Dude summons alot of crap to hide himself
Dude’s AI minions do some burst
Need to drop heavy AOE on Dude AND AI pets

I mean, when you’re talking about “vs noobs” a phantasm build was all about “summon my kitten, then hide until I need to resummon again. collect free kills” in SPvP matches. Hell I used it as my lulz spec for when I was just goofing off glory farming in SPvP cause it let you watch tv or do something else while still “winning fights”.

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.

Braxxus.2904:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Mesmers are full or counters, which work really well 1v1 which make them so powerful. Phantasm feel op because now you have to figure out what the mesmer gonna do to prevent you from doing ur standard macro.

Um…

Phantasm builds didn’t really do anything to make people “figure out” anything tbh. Phantasm is pretty simple to figure out for most people:

Dude summons alot of crap to hide himself
Dude’s AI minions do some burst
Need to drop heavy AOE on Dude AND AI pets

I mean, when you’re talking about “vs noobs” a phantasm build was all about “summon my kitten, then hide until I need to resummon again. collect free kills” in SPvP matches. Hell I used it as my lulz spec for when I was just goofing off glory farming in SPvP cause it let you watch tv or do something else while still “winning fights”.

Shatter build is similar,

Dudes summons lots of clones and phantasm
Dudes roll and use the same counters that phantasm build uses and summoning more illusion while phantasm deal dmg
Dudes see an opening, check, ok all 3 illusion are up
Dudes hop in and sword#3 then #2 , while opponent are distracted to move out of sword #2 , hordes of illusion running in for a shatter + a shatter from the mesmer himself.

Its very similar, just where does your frontal load of dmg comes from, phantasm from the phantasm and shatter from shattering illusion.

Braxxus.2904:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

You’re welcome?

;)

Hell it’s true, and only silly silly people could try and argue that “phantasm” builds are basically for being lazy with gameplay. It’s like necro’s from AoC, or beastmaster RanGARZ from early on in the devil’s MMO.

“Summon programs, have them fight, I got better kitten to do with my time”

XD

such simple mind, you just did the same in all aspect of shatter build. Run and let your AI do all the dmg and hide.

Phantasm build need more Phantasm up for good dps = less clones = less visual confusion. and low shatter dmg
Shatter build need more clones or Phantasm up which does not matter,(so end more clones as they recharge faster) = more visual confusion + some consistant dmg and then end with high burst from shatter

Playing an AI class and deem yourself not using AI is like a cat calling itself a dog.

Aragiel.6132:

LonelyReaper.8075:

@Braxxus: 1 build is not fine!They promise variety not cookie cutter single masses build, which they are pigeon holing us into.

one build??

if you played only one then its your problem. I played different roles and different playstyle with my mesmer and this nerf is not going to stop it..

the only weapon i see as not usefull is scepter.. (maybe i will figure out later a good build with scepter)

You must be kitten stupid or a troll not to understand what i mean till now and what i swap all my utilities every encounter i used in pve for different DEs bosses and encounter, not like my spvp counter part which stick to blink,decoy,condition remover for phantasm and decoy,mirror image, condition remover for shatter.Think before you reply!

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.
[/quote]

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.
[/quote]

You just have to understand that It is incredibly frustrating that bad players pick an easy 1 v 1 class where they are able to just mass produce clones that do the damage for them!! This is not a fair mechanic and pisses off your average player. Hence, the sentiment on here of….just learn to play. I agree this tactic wouldn’t work on a good player.

Senai.1804:

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players?

Did you miss the part where I said “SPvP”? That really solidified that I wasn’t talking about fighting good players with that spec in Tourneys. lol I use my hybrid spec for that.

Senai.1804:

I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.

Well on my build it was once every 10 seconds (1/weapon swap) which worked excellent with the timing. On a phantasm build that actually uses a utility slot for a phantasm in theory you could summon one about every 6-7 seconds or so with proper rotation. Now it’s going to be about once every 12 seconds or so for my hybrid build which doesn’t really affect much at all, a slight timing readjustment, perhaps letting them get a 2nd attack off.

And what a 10 second drop-rate for an actual phantasms build now with weapon swaps. Not that big a deal really.

*Wow, the ever astounding triple post. Lonely, chill.
Phantasm build = turrets
Shatter = Delayed cast attack spells

That’s the difference.*

Braxxus.2904:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

You’re welcome?

;)

Hell it’s true, and only silly silly people could try and argue that “phantasm” builds are basically for being lazy with gameplay. It’s like necro’s from AoC, or beastmaster RanGARZ from early on in the devil’s MMO.

“Summon programs, have them fight, I got better kitten to do with my time”

XD

Your argument makes sense if phantasm was a necro flesh golem that don’t die with 1 2 cleaves and aoe. Stop being so proud and read what i say before typing that your not an AI user.

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more. [/quote]

You just have to understand that It is incredibly frustrating that bad players pick an easy 1 v 1 class where they are able to just mass produce clones that do the damage for them!! This is not a fair mechanic and pisses off your average player. Hence, the sentiment on here of….just learn to play. I agree this tactic wouldn’t work on a good player. [/quote]

Don’t put yourself in a 1v1 situation then. I see no reason as to why you would ever be in one seeing as there is no world pvp. Always stay in groups, it is the basics of pvp.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Braxxus.2904:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

You’re welcome?

;)

Hell it’s true, and only silly silly people could try and argue that “phantasm” builds are basically for being lazy with gameplay. It’s like necro’s from AoC, or beastmaster RanGARZ from early on in the devil’s MMO.

“Summon programs, have them fight, I got better kitten to do with my time”

XD

such simple mind, you just did the same in all aspect of shatter build. Run and let your AI do all the dmg and hide.

Phantasm build need more Phantasm up for good dps = less clones = less visual confusion. and low shatter dmg
Shatter build need more clones or Phantasm up which does not matter,(so end more clones as they recharge faster) = more visual confusion + some consistant dmg and then end with high burst from shatter

Playing an AI class and deem yourself not using AI is like a cat calling itself a dog.

He isn’t really disagreeing with you, I think he is trying to point out that you can still do well on a Mesmer with little effort…something that is impossible with other classes. Thats not to say the class isn’t hard..it’s just easy to do well with for a bad player…but maybe hard to master.

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.
[/quote]

You just have to understand that It is incredibly frustrating that bad players pick an easy 1 v 1 class where they are able to just mass produce clones that do the damage for them!! This is not a fair mechanic and pisses off your average player. Hence, the sentiment on here of….just learn to play. I agree this tactic wouldn’t work on a good player. [/quote]

Wait for shatter build mass screen clutter that hits harder than phantasm build that wrack average players becuz they don’t noe how to safe their dodge or understand that sword#3 is a condition not a stun as a lack of brain power to understand that killing phantasm is what kills a phantasm build , not bursting the mesmer.

Senai.1804:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.

You just have to understand that It is incredibly frustrating that bad players pick an easy 1 v 1 class where they are able to just mass produce clones that do the damage for them!! This is not a fair mechanic and pisses off your average player. Hence, the sentiment on here of….just learn to play. I agree this tactic wouldn’t work on a good player. [/quote]

Don’t put yourself in a 1v1 situation then. I see no reason as to why you would ever be in one seeing as there is no world pvp. Always stay in groups, it is the basics of pvp.[/quote]

Your missing the point though. I always stick with the group. But everyone else shouldn’t have to adapt their behaviour in order to deal with Mesmers. If that is the argument than it definitely proves Mesmers are OP.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.

You just have to understand that It is incredibly frustrating that bad players pick an easy 1 v 1 class where they are able to just mass produce clones that do the damage for them!! This is not a fair mechanic and pisses off your average player. Hence, the sentiment on here of….just learn to play. I agree this tactic wouldn’t work on a good player. [/quote]

Wait for shatter build mass screen clutter that hits harder than phantasm build that wrack average players becuz they don’t noe how to safe their dodge or understand that sword#3 is a condition not a stun as a lack of brain power to understand that killing phantasm is what kills a phantasm build , not bursting the mesmer.[/quote]

I don’t have a problem with Shatter builds myself but I think you are correct.

Frizz.6704:

Senai.1804:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.

You just have to understand that It is incredibly frustrating that bad players pick an easy 1 v 1 class where they are able to just mass produce clones that do the damage for them!! This is not a fair mechanic and pisses off your average player. Hence, the sentiment on here of….just learn to play. I agree this tactic wouldn’t work on a good player.

Don’t put yourself in a 1v1 situation then. I see no reason as to why you would ever be in one seeing as there is no world pvp. Always stay in groups, it is the basics of pvp.[/quote]

Your missing the point though. I always stick with the group. But everyone else shouldn’t have to adapt their behaviour in order to deal with Mesmers. If that is the argument than it definitely proves Mesmers are OP. [/quote]

No. The game isn’t balance around 1v1 and no one has to adapt to anything. You never, ever go at it solo. It is basic pvp. A soldier isn’t going to complain “it isn’t fair” if he runs out onto the battlefield by himself and gets shot. If he does, he is stupid.

There’s a reason the military always moves in platoons. Because trying to be a lone wolf hero gets you killed.

Frizz.6704:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Braxxus.2904:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

You’re welcome?

;)

Hell it’s true, and only silly silly people could try and argue that “phantasm” builds are basically for being lazy with gameplay. It’s like necro’s from AoC, or beastmaster RanGARZ from early on in the devil’s MMO.

“Summon programs, have them fight, I got better kitten to do with my time”

XD

such simple mind, you just did the same in all aspect of shatter build. Run and let your AI do all the dmg and hide.

Phantasm build need more Phantasm up for good dps = less clones = less visual confusion. and low shatter dmg
Shatter build need more clones or Phantasm up which does not matter,(so end more clones as they recharge faster) = more visual confusion + some consistant dmg and then end with high burst from shatter

Playing an AI class and deem yourself not using AI is like a cat calling itself a dog.

He isn’t really disagreeing with you, I think he is trying to point out that you can still do well on a Mesmer with little effort…something that is impossible with other classes. Thats not to say the class isn’t hard..it’s just easy to do well with for a bad player…but maybe hard to master.

Its not really becuz of the phantasm i pointed out in my other post and it not nice that he like his build and start placing other build down. What make mesmer so easy for noob to utilize is because of the survivability that a mesmer have with its screen clutter and counters. I am also surprise that you say noob use phantasm build more than shatter build, which is quite hard to differentiate for the masses which can’t even tell apart which is the real 1. Shatter build is more reliable and your phantasm still hit hard and shatter scale too well with the glass cannon stats most mesmer uses that is power,pricision, crit dmg. Thus, i dont think the noob are using phantasm build as it require more positioning and timing than shatter to fully utilize it.

Senai.1804:

Frizz.6704:

Senai.1804:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.

You just have to understand that It is incredibly frustrating that bad players pick an easy 1 v 1 class where they are able to just mass produce clones that do the damage for them!! This is not a fair mechanic and pisses off your average player. Hence, the sentiment on here of….just learn to play. I agree this tactic wouldn’t work on a good player.

Don’t put yourself in a 1v1 situation then. I see no reason as to why you would ever be in one seeing as there is no world pvp. Always stay in groups, it is the basics of pvp.

Your missing the point though. I always stick with the group. But everyone else shouldn’t have to adapt their behaviour in order to deal with Mesmers. If that is the argument than it definitely proves Mesmers are OP. [/quote]

No. The game isn’t balance around 1v1 and no one has to adapt to anything. You never, ever go at it solo. It is basic pvp. A soldier isn’t going to complain “it isn’t fair” if he runs out onto the battlefield by himself and gets shot. If he does, he is stupid.

There’s a reason the military always moves in platoons. Because trying to be a lone wolf hero gets you killed.
[/quote]

I mean I agree with you that no one should run alone, and I don’t in pvp. But that seems like a seperate argument. Mesmers are still too strong in their current state. Well post 7 Oct anyway.

Frizz.6704:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

Not really. It just proves you can roll bad players with no effort. You really think a mesmer can go watch tv and still win against good players? I have no clue how fast you think we can pump out those phantasms but this “nerf” only added 4 seconds more.

You just have to understand that It is incredibly frustrating that bad players pick an easy 1 v 1 class where they are able to just mass produce clones that do the damage for them!! This is not a fair mechanic and pisses off your average player. Hence, the sentiment on here of….just learn to play. I agree this tactic wouldn’t work on a good player.

Wait for shatter build mass screen clutter that hits harder than phantasm build that wrack average players becuz they don’t noe how to safe their dodge or understand that sword#3 is a condition not a stun as a lack of brain power to understand that killing phantasm is what kills a phantasm build , not bursting the mesmer.[/quote]

I don’t have a problem with Shatter builds myself but I think you are correct. [/quote]

why is senai quote shown as mine.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Frizz.6704:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Braxxus.2904:

Frizz.6704:

You really just proved the point i have been trying to make.

You’re welcome?

;)

Hell it’s true, and only silly silly people could try and argue that “phantasm” builds are basically for being lazy with gameplay. It’s like necro’s from AoC, or beastmaster RanGARZ from early on in the devil’s MMO.

“Summon programs, have them fight, I got better kitten to do with my time”

XD

such simple mind, you just did the same in all aspect of shatter build. Run and let your AI do all the dmg and hide.

Phantasm build need more Phantasm up for good dps = less clones = less visual confusion. and low shatter dmg
Shatter build need more clones or Phantasm up which does not matter,(so end more clones as they recharge faster) = more visual confusion + some consistant dmg and then end with high burst from shatter

Playing an AI class and deem yourself not using AI is like a cat calling itself a dog.

He isn’t really disagreeing with you, I think he is trying to point out that you can still do well on a Mesmer with little effort…something that is impossible with other classes. Thats not to say the class isn’t hard..it’s just easy to do well with for a bad player…but maybe hard to master.

Its not really becuz of the phantasm i pointed out in my other post and it not nice that he like his build and start placing other build down. What make mesmer so easy for noob to utilize is because of the survivability that a mesmer have with its screen clutter and counters. I am also surprise that you say noob use phantasm build more than shatter build, which is quite hard to differentiate for the masses which can’t even tell apart which is the real 1. Shatter build is more reliable and your phantasm still hit hard and shatter scale too well with the glass cannon stats most mesmer uses that is power,pricision, crit dmg. Thus, i dont think the noob are using phantasm build as it require more positioning and timing than shatter to fully utilize it.

I see more phantasm builds out there than shatter builds.

@Frizz: anyway nerf to mesmer is needed in term of 1v1 pvp, but they should nv do a knee-jerk nerf . This will only affect a single build and utterly devastating to phantasm build and slight nerf to shatter build. One more thing is , if summon a single AI to kill an enemy is counted cheap, why wasn’t necro pet build nerf , which is able to have more than 3 AI that last more than a single fight not counted op.

If you seen a mesmer summon more than 1 phantasm at a time, i would count that opponent as a noob, in a sword/sword and staff most mesmer uses , iswordman and iwarlock up, swordsman is in range to be killed, warlock deal mediocre dmg when there no condition. So the situation is that you kill the swordman( that will not have the signet hp buff) and all you are left is a single warlock which shoot so freaking slow. next is to cleave that warlock with the mesmer, which will force him to phase retreat and summon a clone which you most likely cleave with the warlock. Which all of these most likely won’t happen in normal fight, where most mesmer will use a phantasm, summon some clones and shatter instead on losing so much precious dps hoping that your phantasm can last the next atk.

LonelyReaper.8075:

@Frizz: anyway nerf to mesmer is needed in term of 1v1 pvp, but they should nv do a knee-jerk nerf . This will only affect a single build and utterly devastating to phantasm build and slight nerf to shatter build. One more thing is , if summon a single AI to kill an enemy is counted cheap, why wasn’t necro pet build nerf , which is able to have more than 3 AI that last more than a single fight not counted op.

Because necro pets are so utterly broken and sad that there’s no need to nerf them, the necro is kittening himself already by having them.

LonelyReaper.8075:

in a sword/sword and staff most mesmer uses

Uh, no. Most use sword pistol over sword/sword (and it’s not really a bad call) and far too many use GS over staff.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a phantasm mesmer worth a darn use sword/sword + staff. Ever. lol
That’d be a pretty aweful setup for it. Hell, GS+staff would be better, but sword/pistol + GS (or staff) would be more ideal.

but i guess, Phantasm build is bad cause they force your opponent to chose between an AI and player instead of shatter build player and dodge shatter(suicide AI)

Braxxus.2904:

LonelyReaper.8075:

@Frizz: anyway nerf to mesmer is needed in term of 1v1 pvp, but they should nv do a knee-jerk nerf . This will only affect a single build and utterly devastating to phantasm build and slight nerf to shatter build. One more thing is , if summon a single AI to kill an enemy is counted cheap, why wasn’t necro pet build nerf , which is able to have more than 3 AI that last more than a single fight not counted op.

Because necro pets are so utterly broken and sad that there’s no need to nerf them, the necro is kittening himself already by having them.

same for mesmer, so why aren’t we getting the same treatment as necro by fixing their bugs before the nerf hammer.

LonelyReaper.8075:

same for mesmer, so why aren’t we getting the same treatment as necro by fixing their bugs before the nerf hammer.

lol
Not even remotely close. Necro pets have severe issues that cause viability problems, mesmers don’t.

Well, as I use like 2 phantasms maximum (defensive ones) it wont affect stuff

Only way to deal really good damage in a really quick time is to put the sigil that make bleed your opponent, chaos storm / stun / dodge / warlock / stun again / shatter.

Or playin like a real mesmer and let the guy kill himself / totally flood him with conditions non stop.

You thought phantasms were a huge deal ? wait to see people playin with strict timers on their defensive hybrid build and let’s have another qq thread soon !

Mesmer nerf. Finally.

No it’s not a nerf. Don’t even think it’s one since the Mesmer will deal even more damage with a defensive build.

I do like ~30 kills in tournament match, in every single of them without playin a phantasm build and always end up at gettin 20 – 25 skirmisher.

Phantasm was just the most used build and now A.net is puttin people at searchin something else.

@Braxxus: any good mesmer noe that staff is the way to go in spvp, gs offer good range nuking but that don’t always happen in spvp. staff #2 is too much to give up on to bait certain set up by your opponent. Pistol is more a shatter build weapon, #5 can help you get a successful shatter, while phantasm build don’t have much uses for it except interrupt and some misc stuff. sword on the other hand over so much more, swordman survive better in fights than a stationary duelist and deal more frontal load dmg than a duelist. It also offer another survivability with sword #4 and which deals good dmg on block or an interrupt if no1 hit it. Its also give mesmer another clone, which like i said most good phantasm user will only hope than your phantasm last 1 strike and then it now for shatter, with sword #3, #4 clone and iswordman you then go in for a shatter.

Aelona.8572:

No it’s not a nerf. Don’t even think it’s one since the Mesmer will deal even more damage with a defensive build.

I do like ~30 kills in tournament match, in every single of them without playin a phantasm build and always end up at gettin 20 – 25 skirmisher.

Phantasm was just the most used build and now A.net is puttin people at searchin something else.

Indeed.

Real mesmers weren’t affected at all by what happened. If anything maybe more fotm mesbros will realize what the real power builds are for mesmers and l2p properly.

Braxxus.2904:

Aelona.8572:

No it’s not a nerf. Don’t even think it’s one since the Mesmer will deal even more damage with a defensive build.

I do like ~30 kills in tournament match, in every single of them without playin a phantasm build and always end up at gettin 20 – 25 skirmisher.

Phantasm was just the most used build and now A.net is puttin people at searchin something else.

Indeed.

Real mesmers weren’t affected at all by what happened. If anything maybe more fotm mesbros will realize what the real power builds are for mesmers and l2p properly.

cookie cutter build and pvp you mean ., shatter build was even more powerful than phantasm build post nerf and now even. So it doesn’t matter, now every1 will see only shatter builds.

just hoping Anet will give us a hint why was Phantasm nerf.

LonelyReaper.8075:

cookie cutter build you mean .

You mean phantasm build? Nah man, didn’t you hear? They nerfed that. People will have to L2P now and run bunkers, or shatter roamers or condi-support mers and such. The “cookie cutter build” of phantasms will be less used from now on.

Rejoice brother, tis a good thing.

LonelyReaper.8075:

Braxxus.2904:

Aelona.8572:

No it’s not a nerf. Don’t even think it’s one since the Mesmer will deal even more damage with a defensive build.

I do like ~30 kills in tournament match, in every single of them without playin a phantasm build and always end up at gettin 20 – 25 skirmisher.

Phantasm was just the most used build and now A.net is puttin people at searchin something else.

Indeed.

Real mesmers weren’t affected at all by what happened. If anything maybe more fotm mesbros will realize what the real power builds are for mesmers and l2p properly.

cookie cutter build you mean .

Defensive build played properly. Always sayin since BWE 1 that mesmer is a beast when it come at defending. Look at the traits, really closely and see how much tools are in fact super effective when played in a defensive way.

You want to bring absolutely every condition on someone and force him to use everything. You want to maintain truelly high stack of confusion just after that and still totally negatin ranged dps to play.

You want these glamour aoe to be exploited at their full potential by usin a strict timing on knockback done by someone, your glamour up, and another team mate usin right away projectiles that have more than 20% chance to trigger a cross combo finisher.

So, again. You thought phantasms were the deal ?

Aelona.8572:

No it’s not a nerf. Don’t even think it’s one since the Mesmer will deal even more damage with a defensive build.

I do like ~30 kills in tournament match, in every single of them without playin a phantasm build and always end up at gettin 20 – 25 skirmisher.

Phantasm was just the most used build and now A.net is puttin people at searchin something else.

what defensive build are u referring to? and as i say not much different from a shatter and phantasm, which shatter deal more on shatter with more control and phantasm on per phantasm hit. Since the cd is now longer, we will have less phantasm dmg hit in a fight. (Note: If your reffering to noob leaving phantasm up i don’t know what to say but its always good to prepare to shatter after the 1st hit as not to waste your phantasm.) Wherekittenter build will leave their phantasm up indefinitely till a shatter or death.

Aelona.8572:

LonelyReaper.8075:

Braxxus.2904:

Aelona.8572:

No it’s not a nerf. Don’t even think it’s one since the Mesmer will deal even more damage with a defensive build.

I do like ~30 kills in tournament match, in every single of them without playin a phantasm build and always end up at gettin 20 – 25 skirmisher.

Phantasm was just the most used build and now A.net is puttin people at searchin something else.

Indeed.

Real mesmers weren’t affected at all by what happened. If anything maybe more fotm mesbros will realize what the real power builds are for mesmers and l2p properly.

cookie cutter build you mean .

Defensive build played properly. Always sayin since BWE 1 that mesmer is a beast when it come at defending. Look at the traits, really closely and see how much tools are in fact super effective when played in a defensive way.

You want to bring absolutely every condition on someone and force him to use everything. You want to maintain truelly high stack of confusion just after that and still totally negatin ranged dps to play.

You want these glamour aoe to be exploited at their full potential by usin a strict timing on knockback done by someone, your glamour up, and another team mate usin right away projectiles that have more than 20% chance to trigger a cross combo finisher.

So, again. You thought phantasms were the deal ?

glamour, iwarden discussion, WvWvW lol, i 1st to see a glamour thread in pvp. How does sword/sword and staff phantasm differ from your defensive play. I have more defense that a focus wielder. So stop jumping from spvp to wvw and give bit and pieces of everything.

A well thought defensive build with appropriate runes. You can do direct and sort of big aoe damage without shatter or phantasm, and big punishing aoe damage too. maybe not directly on that one but still

@Aelona: 1st thing here i not to discuss about ur defensive build, i here to ask why pve was not consider.