Guild Wars 2

How free tournaments are neither fun or possible to win as Qing as a solo, I think alot of their casual pvp players are going to end up leaving this game because of the people rank 1-10 are playing a free tourney up against a team with everyone over rank 30…..how the hell is that fair in anyway what so ever. It literally destroys hope in pvp. I go into tournaments knowing im getting a bronze chest because even if I do make it to round 2 or 3, you are 100% chance going up against a guild whos farming freee tournaments for tickets. so much bullkitten no respect for any other player base but pros.

It’s true that the only casual sPvP mode tends to be hot-join. Grinding ranks through solo-queuing free tournaments will take forever, as you are unlikely to make it past Round 2 or Round 3 due to premades.

It’s quite funny that premades are even matched against PuGs in free tournaments. Shouldn’t tournaments be about skill? There is no skill in PuG stomping.

• If you queue as a group you go into POOL A.
• If you queue solo you go into POOL B.
• People from POOL A are only matched against others in POOL A.
• People from POOL B are only matched against others in POOL B.

Problem solved. Will queues be longer? Yes. They’ll also be worth it. I’d rather spend an extra 5-10 minutes waiting for a queue for a game that may end up giving me more glory and rank than losing a game I have no chance of winning.

The burnout for casual solo players such as myself is strong, because we only ever see 1 or 2 maps. Kyhlo pretty much doesn’t exist to me. You may argue tournaments are meant for grouping. If that’s the case they should remove solo-queuing from free tournaments.

Gilgamesh.2561:

It’s true that the only casual sPvP mode tends to be hot-join. Grinding ranks through solo-queuing free tournaments will take forever, as you are unlikely to make it past Round 2 or Round 3 due to premades.

It’s quite funny that premades are even matched against PuGs in free tournaments. Shouldn’t tournaments be about skill? There is no skill in PuG stomping.

• If you queue as a group you go into POOL A.
• If you queue solo you go into POOL B.
• People from POOL A are only matched against others in POOL A.
• People from POOL B are only matched against others in POOL B.

Problem solved. Will queues be longer? Yes. They’ll also be worth it. I’d rather spend an extra 5-10 minutes waiting for a queue for a game that may end up giving me more glory and rank than losing a game I have no chance of winning.

The burnout for casual solo players such as myself is strong, because we only ever see 1 or 2 maps. Kyhlo pretty much doesn’t exist to me. You may argue tournaments are meant for grouping. If that’s the case they should remove solo-queuing from free tournaments.

I could definitely get behind this idea. My only problem is when you try to dual queue with a friend/guildie. I’ve play countless free tournaments before paids as a pug and then with a group and neither really matches you up with appropriate enemies to fight half of the time. All aNet really needs to do is make a new free tournament that disallows premade groups and only allow solo queues (idk how they would deal with dual queue).

as aktiv pvp player with over 900 tournaments played, its feeling like over 75% of the player are quitted GW2.

Waiting OVER 60 MINUTES FOR PAID is a pain….

Anet said Free and PAID will split up ppl…. but there arent any ppl to split up.

Presure the release with an awfull pvpsystem was your worst idea.

Gilgamesh.2561:

It’s true that the only casual sPvP mode tends to be hot-join. Grinding ranks through solo-queuing free tournaments will take forever, as you are unlikely to make it past Round 2 or Round 3 due to premades.

It’s quite funny that premades are even matched against PuGs in free tournaments. Shouldn’t tournaments be about skill? There is no skill in PuG stomping.

• If you queue as a group you go into POOL A.
• If you queue solo you go into POOL B.
• People from POOL A are only matched against others in POOL A.
• People from POOL B are only matched against others in POOL B.

Problem solved. Will queues be longer? Yes. They’ll also be worth it. I’d rather spend an extra 5-10 minutes waiting for a queue for a game that may end up giving me more glory and rank than losing a game I have no chance of winning.

The burnout for casual solo players such as myself is strong, because we only ever see 1 or 2 maps. Kyhlo pretty much doesn’t exist to me. You may argue tournaments are meant for grouping. If that’s the case they should remove solo-queuing from free tournaments.

So what happens when you queue with only two people?
Three?
Four?

Are you solo or a group? Did it solve the issues of PUG’s vs Organized groups?

All you did was successfully increase queue times.

Gilgamesh.2561:

It’s true that the only casual sPvP mode tends to be hot-join. Grinding ranks through solo-queuing free tournaments will take forever, as you are unlikely to make it past Round 2 or Round 3 due to premades.

It’s quite funny that premades are even matched against PuGs in free tournaments. Shouldn’t tournaments be about skill? There is no skill in PuG stomping.

• If you queue as a group you go into POOL A.
• If you queue solo you go into POOL B.
• People from POOL A are only matched against others in POOL A.
• People from POOL B are only matched against others in POOL B.

Problem solved. Will queues be longer? Yes. They’ll also be worth it. I’d rather spend an extra 5-10 minutes waiting for a queue for a game that may end up giving me more glory and rank than losing a game I have no chance of winning.

The burnout for casual solo players such as myself is strong, because we only ever see 1 or 2 maps. Kyhlo pretty much doesn’t exist to me. You may argue tournaments are meant for grouping. If that’s the case they should remove solo-queuing from free tournaments.

If you’re pugging, why would you join tpvp as opposed to spvp? I thought the purpose for tpvp was to reward groups of coorindated play.

as aktiv pvp player with over 900 tournaments played, its feeling like over 75% of the player are quitted GW2.

Waiting OVER 60 MINUTES FOR PAID is a pain….

Anet said Free and PAID will split up ppl…. but there arent any ppl to split up.

Presure the release with an awfull pvpsystem was your worst idea.

Your response could be more constructive..

According to your post the problem is that, due to long queues, no premades are queuing for Paid and instead are continuing to queue for Free. An ironic situation because Paid queues would not be long if people queued for it, but it’s understandable that people value their time and may not have the patience.

Premades also may be queuing for Free because they’re not good enough for Paid.

It sounds to me the ideal solution is encouraging premades to queue for Paid, and I would do that by preventing them from facing PuGs. PuGs are an easy win. Premades would more likely queue for Paid if they knew they would only face other premades in Free. At that point the rewards and time of Free aren’t comparable.

As long as premades can stomp PuGs in free, free is better for farming rank.

If you’re pugging, why would you join tpvp as opposed to spvp? I thought the purpose for tpvp was to reward groups of coorindated play.

I already answered that. If tPvP is meant for groups, ArenaNet should remove the option to queue alone. Why else would it be there for? They seem to think it’s a PuGable environment when it really isn’t.

So what happens when you queue with only two people?
Three?
Four?

Are you solo or a group? Did it solve the issues of PUG’s vs Organized groups?

All you did was successfully increase queue times.

Partial groups are still identifiable because they queued as a group. However, because they will have PuGs, they’ll still be pitted against PuGs and not full premades. However, if I were ArenaNet I would match partial groups against other partial groups to the best I could.

I have won many games as a PuG against partial groups. Most cases you have 2 or 3 people queuing together, and it’s still possible to have victory.

Gilgamesh.2561:

If you’re pugging, why would you join tpvp as opposed to spvp? I thought the purpose for tpvp was to reward groups of coorindated play.

I already answered that. If tPvP is meant for groups, ArenaNet should remove the option to queue alone. Why else would it be there for? They seem to think it’s a PuGable environment when it really isn’t.

So what happens when you queue with only two people?
Three?
Four?

Are you solo or a group? Did it solve the issues of PUG’s vs Organized groups?

All you did was successfully increase queue times.

Partial groups are still identifiable because they queued as a group. However, because they will have PuGs, they’ll still be pitted against PuGs and not full premades. However, if I were ArenaNet I would match partial groups against other partial groups to the best I could.

I have won many games as a PuG against partial groups. Most cases you have 2 or 3 people queuing together, and it’s still possible to have victory.

They’ve already said, in other posts “why can’t I group with my friends”, that tpvp is for coordinated play. There shouldn’t be an expectation of walking in with no communicating AND being effective.

I play tPvP with my friend. Why, not because I want to be on a losing team, but because our guild is full of WvWers who came from Aion as a PvP guild and wont play sPvP because they cant have a cheese grater helmet. We play tPvP because it is 5v5 not zerg v 6. SPvP is now us 2 trying to get the other 2 points while our zerg loses to their zerg because they are 2 players down and don’t care for the objective capture. End result, we get less glory and have a hard time trying to offset the enemies 1 point + 5 points per second from killing our team.

We play tPvP because it is more fun, and whilst we have only won 2 (came first) tourney of the 10 or so we have played, it was much more fun then trying to fend off 8 people who are running at your point and you trying to get out of that chaos to go cap the point they just left.

Our guild has 2 others who want to play sPvP but we don’t have a 5th perm so 1 hardly ever logs on and the other plays WvW till we can get a full team. Those are the only 2 from our guild we would be willing to take into “paid tourneys” (free we don’t really care about, would make them better at the game) because no one else in the guild even knows how to get to sPvP (I mean, come on, its the easiest way to traverse in PvE, how can you not know how to get there).

So, let me get this straight…

WvW is for casual PvP’ers. You do not see us “hardcore” or “pro” guys crying all over the place because we do not get the chance to really play.

SPvP is for casual PvP’ers. You do not see “hardcore” premade groups stomping all over the place. Why? Because ANet wants a place for the “casual” PvP’ers to play and not QQ.

TPvP is for the hardcore PvP’ers. You see gasps premade groups of serious guild groups/pug groups. Now you want people to give you a bone and allow you to be casual all over the game.

Sigh*

@ Dragonskin

WvW is for ppl who like to zerg

SPvp is for ppl who like to zerg

TPvp- Is what the game is balanced around, what the maps were made for, and is the only place the zerg cant truely grab hold.

It is not a bone we want( feels weird saying that since I only do tpvp with my guild lol, so maybe more they) it is to play the game as it was meant to be played. If they changed the 8v8 system to 5v5 then stuff like this would vanish.

It is that they made game modes for “casuals” but made the game balance on something else. Out of over 300 servers only 50 at most are full at a time, they should switch it to 5v5 for all and let ppl actually play conquest not some zergy mess

Colton.9460:

WvW is for ppl who like to zerg

SPvp is for ppl who like to zerg

TPvp- Is what the game is balanced around, what the maps were made for, and is the only place the zerg cant truely grab hold.

It is not a bone we want( feels weird saying that since I only do tpvp with my guild lol, so maybe more they) it is to play the game as it was meant to be played. If they changed the 8v8 system to 5v5 then stuff like this would vanish.

It is that they made game modes for “casuals” but made the game balance on something else. Out of over 300 servers only 50 at most are full at a time, they should switch it to 5v5 for all and let ppl actually play conquest not some zergy mess

Couldn’t have put it any better myself. I could never understand why Anet decided to make random servers 8v8, it’s just so … stupid. I’m sorry, but it is.

I can almost imagine Anet staff saying something like: “Naah we can’t make random people play 5v5, there will be too many upset people because they can’t play an organised format with random people. Let’s make it 8v8, I guess Zerg is better!!!”

Jesus man! Make people play 5v5 and they will play 5v5, they will learn. GW1 had random arena, there if you wanted to get to 10+ wins you usually really needed atleast a monk AND a decent DPS character. That’s quite demanding, but hey, guess what, I’d trade GW1 RA for this 8v8 conquest anytime. I got to Gladiator 7 title and had loads, LOADS of fun in random arenas… Nothing beats the feeling of reaching 30 wins with random players, making new friends along the way, that really respected eachother’s work. Because with 30 wins you knew everyone was doing a good job at what they were doing in that team… Anyway RA from GW1 >> random Conquest in GW2. Sad to say so…

Quick and fast solution

Just make hot-join 5v5. To be honest i never seen a positive feedback on 8v8 format. So why to stick with it?

So once again.

Make hot-join 5v5: Now solo players and incomplete groups could use it.
Free tournaments only for full premade: Its like small tournament.. where you learn and get tickets. Only full premades can enter.
Paid tournaments for tickets = making it harder to entry and more challenging for top teams.

so basically 2 steps are needed. Change hot-join to 5v5 and allow free tournaments to join only full premade groups

problem solved.

Aragiel.6132:

Quick and fast solution

Just make hot-join 5v5. To be honest i never seen a positive feedback on 8v8 format. So why to stick with it?

So once again.

Make hot-join 5v5: Now solo players and incomplete groups could use it.
Free tournaments only for full premade: Its like small tournament.. where you learn and get tickets. Only full premades can enter.
Paid tournaments for tickets = making it harder to entry and more challenging for top teams.

so basically 2 steps are needed. Change hot-join to 5v5 and allow free tournaments to join only full premade groups

problem solved.

Yes, I think that’s quite a good idea. Because currently i’ve even stopped joining Free Tournaments, because it’s just no fun entering with random people against a full premade team that’s runing whatever metabuild that just stomps your team…

Also what i would do is make random matches shorter. Say 250 or 300 points wins the game. That way there’s less chance of people leaving in the middle of the match. If people join random they just want a quick in quick out match, and not waste too much time on a loosing team, waiting for the other team to finally reach 500 points, so they just leave before it’s even over, making the thing even worse for everybody still staying in the game…

I think random arena matchup system from GW1 was perfect for GW2, so IDK why they got rid of it…

Why do they put pugs in with premades in all mmos? Because it makes premades feel special first off, but secondly- because not enough people are interested in premade pvp. If they didn’t, premade queues would never pop because very few premades want to face premades- as long as there’s a good chance of stomping a pug though it’s great.

There are people who want a challenge- and they’re the ones who will say ‘we want it to be premade vs premade only’. But, look at all the responses of people in premades saying there shouldn’t be a pug queue- those are the people who hate a challenge, and that’s a lot of people.

Of course- puggers are also a big group, and it’s been shown again and again that they do leave mmos that make pvp a painful experience- look at the state of TOR’s pvp for a perfect example of a game ruined by making the game extremely unpleasant for casuals.

At the least- you don’t have to gear up in this game, so until another game does that for pvp this is casual’s best bet.

The thing is GW1 had it all covered through RA and TA system. In RA you entered the arena alone, if your team was really good it got to 10 wins and at that point your whole team would be transfered into TA and you would play against premade teams there. Fair enough, that was great!

Here you can enter alone into that horrible 8v8 zerg conquest whatever, team counts for nothing there anyway. If you enter free tournament alone you get matched up against a full premade team right of the bat, get stomped, hope for more luck next time. No system in place at all, I feel it’s all just one huge chaos with not a single thought put into it… Why do they go around changing stuff that wasn’t broken, and on top of it they change it for the worse?!?!

The only way to make it end and be balanced is to…..well, make it end and be balanced.

Look at WoW arena before players accrued a “personal rating”, and even somewhat after. Gladiators with top tier equipment where constantly remaking teams, either just for the fun of it or to carry a person or two up to that level to also get that equipment.

This meant a nonstop of of getting pounded in the tailpipe by people you simply weren’t going to beat. Heck, just fooling around in there with a duo with my wife, we fought gladiators as low as 900 rating(that’s a few hundred points behind “wow, you guys are really bad”, btw).

If the top tiers, more coordinated, and better players are segregated, their matches become more even and so do everyone elses.

The only caveat I would add is that a bone ought to be tossed to these folks for getting there, statue of the current top rated team in Heart of Mists, fancy weapon skins, etc. Without this there isn’t much incentive for them to stay at the top once they get there.

shiNn.2571:

as aktiv pvp player with over 900 tournaments played, its feeling like over 75% of the player are quitted GW2.

Waiting OVER 60 MINUTES FOR PAID is a pain….

Anet said Free and PAID will split up ppl…. but there arent any ppl to split up.

Presure the release with an awfull pvpsystem was your worst idea.

really?? 60 minutes and where did you get this 75%?… i would say 65% of players that do 86% of their time tournaments say “38% players are playing solo and ppl are not leaving”

Everyone that’s posted before me knows more than I do for sure. As a very casual player that likes to play with my bros 1 to 2 times a week, I can honestly say that in the current state of s/tPVP, we’re not at all happy. It really feels like a broken system all around. For us, we’d prefer to simply do sPVP together on the same team. Win or lose, it’d be nice to battle together. tPVP isn’t at all a good fit for us as everyone else has indicated. The result is that we’re looking at other games to play. Maybe we’re outliers in this respect, but I have to believe that a lot of casual players are disappointed in the current state of sPVP.

The best comparison for what is going on in tpvp and I only did a few when it was released because I had a similar experience in another game and knew these complaints were incoming big time.

Is when a random arenas team would get max wins and go into team arenas.

All guildwars players knows what was expected to happen then, and I think so does arenanet, hell some people would even leave the random arena team before entering ta (I wasn’t one of those people I liked to see how far we could go) that made it that far because they would lose hope at that point.

Why do they put pugs in with premades in all mmos? Because it makes premades feel special first off, but secondly- because not enough people are interested in premade pvp. If they didn’t, premade queues would never pop because very few premades want to face premades- as long as there’s a good chance of stomping a pug though it’s great.
There are people who want a challenge- and they’re the ones who will say ‘we want it to be premade vs premade only’. But, look at all the responses of people in premades saying there shouldn’t be a pug queue- those are the people who hate a challenge, and that’s a lot of people.
Of course- puggers are also a big group, and it’s been shown again and again that they do leave mmos that make pvp a painful experience- look at the state of TOR’s pvp for a perfect example of a game ruined by making the game extremely unpleasant for casuals.
At the least- you don’t have to gear up in this game, so until another game does that for pvp this is casual’s best bet.

Great post.

PuGs are the catalyst to encourage premades. Without PuGs in free tournaments, a lot of premades wouldn’t exist because they would lose against real teams and be discouraged from future tournament participation. PuGs are their carrot-on-a-stick to keep playing. Unfortunately we may be too tasty of a carrot, because these premades are sticking with Free tournaments instead of switching to Paid.

Splitting up the tournaments into Paid versus Free is a terrible division… it should be Solo (or duo) versus Premade groups. I’m pretty much done with sPvP until this happens, as it’s not a lot of fun being on either side of the Solo versus Premade stomp.

Furbs.9054:

Splitting up the tournaments into Paid versus Free is a terrible division… it should be Solo (or duo) versus Premade groups. I’m pretty much done with sPvP until this happens, as it’s not a lot of fun being on either side of the Solo versus Premade stomp.

I like the idea someone else brought up, that people have honestly been asking forever:

• Make hot-join 5v5. It’s already PuG-only. Make the rewards more comparable to Free Tournaments, or people will complain. For example, winning should reward a bronze/silver chest. This would encourage hot-join to also be less about farming kills, and less people would drop out too.

• Free tournaments – premade only. This is practice area.

• Paid tournaments – much better rewards than free. Premades only.

The reason why the teams HAVE to farm Free tournaments is simple … almost everyone is already out of tickets because it consumes 5 freaking tickets to play 1 PAID tournament … and since there are only a few good groups out there you almost always get stomped by teams like PZ, TP, ALPHA and so in in the 1st round …. PAID is no fun if you don’t have a really really good and pro group right now since as I mentioned .. you will just get stomped and lose tons of tickets.

It would be so much more easy if people would be chosen by qualification points or there should at least be a matchmarking system … I mean comon …

if you ever played LoL then imagine it would be like this all the time in Paid:

Elo 1200 vs Elo 2500

since there are only such a few teams with tons and tons of tickets out there you can almost be sure to get stomped by one of those all the time because they are the only ones queueing anymore lol .. you might survive the 1st round but after this pray to god not to get vs the same teams again and again

and this is simply the reason why the queue times for paids are so kittening high and why almost no one enjoys playing Paids.

Solo queuing tpvp shouldn’t be possible IMO. It’s a tournament, it should require a full group to be queued together.

It is disheartening to hear that most people have cleared out of playing the paids.

I do think that the game could benefit by a ranking system that has the ability to intelligently create 5v5 pugs. I know there would be concerns about players still manipulating the system to create pre-mades, but I can think of several ways to mitigate most of the risks. Tracking the members of the teams and try to minimize the same team being create as much as possible through the matchmaking queues is just one example.

What we really need is an opportunity and avenue to meet and play with organized teams of people on our same skill level; then take those acquaintances and turn them to friends whom we can roll premades with and get better as a unit. A pug-only tournament structure with a ranking system would be the best way to accomplish this.

Really when I think about it, that might be the thing that is most missing from the PvP environment at the moment: not spectator, or custom servers, but the structure needed to help build the community.

TimeBomb.3427:

Solo queuing tpvp shouldn’t be possible IMO. It’s a tournament, it should require a full group to be queued together.

For paids its not. The issue is that the only other option is the 8v8 pubs… All of the intricacies in strategy, coordination, and balance go out the window in that format unfortunately. Therefore it does not present any ability to build community or really get better as a player after a certain point.

I know I should just associate myself more in-game with PvP disposed people and build my pre-mades that way. But I don’t play the game enough to be “dependable” to a hardcore group, and despite my best convincing, I don’t have 5 friends that I can get to consistently play even as little as I do.

At the same time, I feel I have pretty much maxxed out my ability in sPvP would really like the added challenge of coordinated and balanced team play, but getting face-rolled in free tournaments doesn’t accomplish that either.

TimeBomb.3427:

Solo queuing tpvp shouldn’t be possible IMO. It’s a tournament, it should require a full group to be queued together.

say good bye to casual players and the chance this game has to be an e-sport if solo queuers are stuck doing spvp

it’s not hard to add a solo queue bracket and premade bracket or just make higher level tournies more easily accessible

add join as team button and join as solo button, problem solved. other games do it.

Can we get 5v5 spvp to hold us over until custom arenas?

Without the same rewards that tpvp has spvp will attract less players. Casual players still want the increased glory and chests and all the rewards that come with tpvp and they cannot get it from spvp, so they que in in free tourny. There is no reason they shouldn’t have access to that, because they paid their 60 bucks for this game like everyone else and playing the game more than them, with a hardcore guild, doesn’t make anyone deserve anything more than they do. It’s just a game, after all, not a job.

Since those same players will then lose, pathetically, 90% of the time in tpvp, they will slowly be turned off of pvp altogether. After all, giving up on tpvp for the night and going back to spvp is NOT going to make you feel any better. Its going to be worse.

When combined with the fact that the mists chat is all but dead on some servers, many casual players just have no hope in sight for pvp.

I’d say just make the casual mode less crazy, thereby increasing player base, ergo more teams sprouting up. You just gotta have the numbers. I’m sure the tournaments would be going much better, even before any price adjustment, if the number of active players was simply higher.

We need fertile soil for people to get their bearings, make acquaintances, and begin to want to get organized. Right now we have 8v8 scorched earth.

SPvP should be 5v5 by default. Save the 8v8 crap for games modes like CTF or TDM if you decide to add them. That will give better feedback from actual pvp players than anything else.

Pretty sure that’s /thread. NO ONE enjoys this 8v8 zergfest on 5v5 maps. Please remove it

I actually enjoy having lots of people in a game. I’m fine with the idea of 8v8, or even 20v20. There just needs to be more incentive to win the match than to just farm kills to make that work.

No one is stopping you from picking up four other “rank 1-10” players and learning how to play the game togheter!

Your argument Might have worked in other games where the rank actually matters (read higher rank=better gear) but in guild wars 2 the only thing the rank says is how much experience they have. Not necessarily skill or any other advantage over you.

If you are getting shredded in a puged tournament it is based on a) you were unlucky and got paired up with mainly bad players or b) you are meeting a decent+ premade.
The answer to your problem is not to lock premade teams out of free tournaments or anything like it, it is actually alot easier than that! It is to get a group of people, get onto a voice software togheter and then play the game Togheter!

To be honest, if I’d put it to the extreme I could just pick up your arguments and request that they dont let e-sports teams play on the paid tournaments, because my “normal” premade is getting beaten by teams like Paradigm etc.

Rythgar.2896:

To be honest, if I’d put it to the extreme I could just pick up your arguments and request that they dont let e-sports teams play on the paid tournaments, because my “normal” premade is getting beaten by teams like Paradigm etc.

no applying your argument to that situation would go like this: if you faced team paradigm or equivalent the first match of every tournament losing 500-50 would your team be having fun? I could just say well get better team mates or better communication otherwise go play spvp.

Again, it is not always just that easy for a lot of people to get a group together and do tpvp. I dont know what server you are on, but on my server unless you are in a guild, which a lot of people are not and I understand that, you are not getting a group together. Spamming mists chat will get you nowhere.

TimeBomb.3427:

Solo queuing tpvp shouldn’t be possible IMO. It’s a tournament, it should require a full group to be queued together.

Why?

Why can’t there be a competitive but still slightly casual Solo Queue, a Free Team Tourny and a paid Team Tourny?

LoL has Solo Queue and I think it helps ALOT for them in terms of Esports. It lets the more casual partake in competitive play, it’s a great entrance going from Hotjoin into Competitive play, a good way to find a team/players and get your name out there. It’s also another carrot besides skins (that get dyed anyway…), get better and watch your number grow.

Right now it’s choose between getting farmed by Premades or play in the 8v8 clusterkitten.

Sprawl.3891:

Rythgar.2896:

To be honest, if I’d put it to the extreme I could just pick up your arguments and request that they dont let e-sports teams play on the paid tournaments, because my “normal” premade is getting beaten by teams like Paradigm etc.

no applying your argument to that situation would go like this: if you faced team paradigm or equivalent the first match of every tournament losing 500-50 would your team be having fun? I could just say well get better team mates or better communication otherwise go play spvp.

I said to use His arguments…not Mine! Please read my post correctly before you quote it. Thank you.

Sprawl.3891:

Rythgar.2896:

To be honest, if I’d put it to the extreme I could just pick up your arguments and request that they dont let e-sports teams play on the paid tournaments, because my “normal” premade is getting beaten by teams like Paradigm etc.

no applying your argument to that situation would go like this: if you faced team paradigm or equivalent the first match of every tournament losing 500-50 would your team be having fun? I could just say well get better team mates or better communication otherwise go play spvp.

Actually if I could face Team paradigm every match that would be awesome but thats because I play with people who like challenge and want to get better. We que up for paids every time we can but usually we are never on together at primetime for our server so que can be an hour plus.

The idea of a pug tournament doesn’t make sense in my opinion, paid or not.
That being said, it sounds like the main issue here is the lack of options and the poor quality/quantity of rewards from SPvP moreso than the fact that PUGs are getting clobbered by premades in TPvP.

The way I see it, TPvP is, or at least should be thought of as little more than SPvP for premades. It’s more competitive, and yeah, maybe it does have a bit better rewards because of that. But if the rewards are so much better than SPvP and/or the gameplay options are that much more preferred that people are being drawn away from SPvP, then it sounds like SPvP should be fixed rather than TPvP.

Knote.2904:

TimeBomb.3427:

Solo queuing tpvp shouldn’t be possible IMO. It’s a tournament, it should require a full group to be queued together.

Why?

Why can’t there be a competitive but still slightly casual Solo Queue, a Free Team Tourny and a paid Team Tourny?

LoL has Solo Queue and I think it helps ALOT for them in terms of Esports. It lets the more casual partake in competitive play, it’s a great entrance going from Hotjoin into Competitive play, a good way to find a team/players and get your name out there. It’s also another carrot besides skins (that get dyed anyway…), get better and watch your number grow.

Right now it’s choose between getting farmed by Premades or play in the 8v8 clusterkitten.

The thing is, that all you are asking for is a tournament for a “lower” lever of tournament play. Because to be honest, puging means a much lower level of gameplay, because you are not used to each other, have no chance to communicate properly and the classes/builds etc is random.

And in my eyes what you are asking for is Exactly what the “normal” sPvP is there for.
Tournaments should not Need to be team only, but dont complain when you go up against teams please, because where would the teams go if not to tournaments?
Dont like the higher level of competition then go sPvP.

Oh and yes, the rewards is not as good no. But what do you expect when the competition is higher?

Rythgar.2896:

Sprawl.3891:

Rythgar.2896:

To be honest, if I’d put it to the extreme I could just pick up your arguments and request that they dont let e-sports teams play on the paid tournaments, because my “normal” premade is getting beaten by teams like Paradigm etc.

no applying your argument to that situation would go like this: if you faced team paradigm or equivalent the first match of every tournament losing 500-50 would your team be having fun? I could just say well get better team mates or better communication otherwise go play spvp.

I said to use His arguments…not Mine! Please read my post correctly before you quote it. Thank you.

i used your argument on purpose because it was a bad one. You are telling him to get better. If you were facing TP and getting stomped, I could say the same thing to you, just get better. but chances are you, and the majority of players will never be able to even get within 200 points of TP no matter how much you play and practice.

Go start playing golf 8 hours a day ever day for the next 10 years, guess what, you still won’t be a pro in 10 years.

Rythgar.2896:

Knote.2904:

TimeBomb.3427:

Solo queuing tpvp shouldn’t be possible IMO. It’s a tournament, it should require a full group to be queued together.

Why?

Why can’t there be a competitive but still slightly casual Solo Queue, a Free Team Tourny and a paid Team Tourny?

LoL has Solo Queue and I think it helps ALOT for them in terms of Esports. It lets the more casual partake in competitive play, it’s a great entrance going from Hotjoin into Competitive play, a good way to find a team/players and get your name out there. It’s also another carrot besides skins (that get dyed anyway…), get better and watch your number grow.

Right now it’s choose between getting farmed by Premades or play in the 8v8 clusterkitten.

The thing is, that all you are asking for is a tournament for a “lower” lever of tournament play. Because to be honest, puging means a much lower level of gameplay, because you are not used to each other, have no chance to communicate properly and the classes/builds etc is random.

And in my eyes what you are asking for is Exactly what the “normal” sPvP is there for.
Tournaments should not Need to be team only, but dont complain when you go up against teams please, because where would the teams go if not to tournaments?
Dont like the higher level of competition then go sPvP.

Oh and yes, the rewards is not as good no. But what do you expect when the competition is higher?

I don’t care for the rewards, and normal Spvp even if it was made 5v5 would still not be the same, it doesn’t match you up with people of the same skill level like an ELO ranking system would.

And free tournament’s are essentially as you say “a lower level of pvp” especially if people are allowed to continue pugging it.

Premades and pugs should NEVER be matched together, especially in competitive games.

All this does is gate a big portion of players from higher levels of pvp, all that does is hurt esports. There’s no good reason not to have a solo queue option.

and Rythgar please stop bringing up rewards and “lower tier” nonsense, the rewards are cosmetic, nobody asking for these changes gives a crap about gear and rewards, they want fun competitive matches against equally skilled players and currently neither spvp or free tournaments offer this for casual players and solo queuers.

If your answer to everyone is just “get better l2p” you’ll end up with a dead game on your hands because casuals are the majority and the audience for e-sports.

Sprawl.3891:

Rythgar.2896:

Sprawl.3891:

Rythgar.2896:

To be honest, if I’d put it to the extreme I could just pick up your arguments and request that they dont let e-sports teams play on the paid tournaments, because my “normal” premade is getting beaten by teams like Paradigm etc.

no applying your argument to that situation would go like this: if you faced team paradigm or equivalent the first match of every tournament losing 500-50 would your team be having fun? I could just say well get better team mates or better communication otherwise go play spvp.

I said to use His arguments…not Mine! Please read my post correctly before you quote it. Thank you.

i used your argument on purpose because it was a bad one. You are telling him to get better. If you were facing TP and getting stomped, I could say the same thing to you, just get better. but chances are you, and the majority of players will never be able to even get within 200 points of TP no matter how much you play and practice.

Go start playing golf 8 hours a day ever day for the next 10 years, guess what, you still won’t be a pro in 10 years.

I seriously think you overestimates TP and other “e-sports teams”. I have yet to see a streamed TP (or other teams like team lunatic or team legacy) match where they “own” the enemy team. Even if you only manage to hold 1 point through the whole game you will roughly lose to 500-250.

And I dont mind losing badly to a team, as long as I know I’ve done my best And learned what to do differently/better (aka improved myself). There just is no way you will improve when “owning” other players.

How can the idea that to improve yourself in a Player versus Player enviroment is a bad one? You think the “best players” just was born that good? I promise you, there was a time when they got roflstomped as well. It actually All boils down to how fast you can improve yourself. And please dont give me no talk about that you, he or I can not improve enough to beat them, because that is just down-talking.

Rythgar.2896:

I seriously think you overestimates TP and other “e-sports teams”. I have yet to see a streamed TP (or other teams like team lunatic or team legacy) match where they “own” the enemy team. Even if you only manage to hold 1 point through the whole game you will roughly lose to 500-250.

And I dont mind losing badly to a team, as long as I know I’ve done my best And learned what to do differently/better (aka improved myself). There just is no way you will improve when “owning” other players.

How can the idea that to improve yourself in a Player versus Player enviroment is a bad one? You think the “best players” just was born that good? I promise you, there was a time when they got roflstomped as well. It actually All boils down to how fast you can improve yourself. And please dont give me no talk about that you, he or I can not improve enough to beat them, because that is just down-talking.

so you think if you lost 500-250 and kept playing against TP you would eventually beat them and become a professional sponsored team yourself? And I’m the making crazy statements? lol ok in that case every single team would be elite eventually, which is absurd. Any game/sport with ratings/ladders has proven this and I’m not sure why you are trying to debate it. There will be elite teams and mediocre teams forever.

the idea to improve yourself is good, but everyone has a ceiling. And what you continue to utterly fail to understand is that with the current system, those mid tier teams that just dont have time to play and practice as much as pro teams are stuck either playing against elite teams in paid tournies or pugs in free tournies, occasionally by luck getting matched up with an equal skill team in a free tournament.

TLDR, mid-tier teams (which exist in every game/sport in the history of the world) rarely play fun competitive matches with the current system.

TimeBomb.3427:

The idea of a pug tournament doesn’t make sense in my opinion, paid or not.
That being said, it sounds like the main issue here is the lack of options and the poor quality/quantity of rewards from SPvP moreso than the fact that PUGs are getting clobbered by premades in TPvP.

The way I see it, TPvP is, or at least should be thought of as little more than SPvP for premades. It’s more competitive, and yeah, maybe it does have a bit better rewards because of that. But if the rewards are so much better than SPvP and/or the gameplay options are that much more preferred that people are being drawn away from SPvP, then it sounds like SPvP should be fixed rather than TPvP.

Yeah.

I don’t care about ranks, I don’t care about prizes, I just want a place to fight other lone warriors while neither of us gets mobbed out. No one in voip, just instinct, responsibility, or whatever you wanna bring.

5v5 spvp seriously feels like the missing link

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Paid-vs-Free-Let-s-take-a-look

So wait, TPvP tracks and pairs you up against other players/teams with similar skill levels, while SPvP doesn’t, i.e. pairs randomly? What about the auto balancing mechanic in SPvP? Is that not working well, or does it balance only by glory level, i.e. time played rather than skill? If the answer is yes to any of these questions, it sounds like the skill matching system should be improved in SPvP. Once again, I don’t see a reason to change TPvP to fix this issue.