Guild Wars 2

I’m surprised people are asking for mesmer to be nerfed. I am not surprised that people are noticing mesmer is more powerful since the patch, but I am surprised they want it to be nerfed. Without exaggeration, this is the first time since launch that mesmer has had good trait synergy. Seriously. The class has had its back broken since the first few months after the game came out.

Mesmer is working for the first time in 2 years. The class now has actual options for overall strategy, trait selection, weapon selection, and utility selection. Why do people want that to go away? I think it’s because anet has neglected actually fixing their classes for so long, that having a class in the game that actually works is upsetting to people.

It’s like, your parents beat you every day, and you have this friend, and his parents beat him every day too, so you get along. Then one day, he gets adopted by parents that love him, and don’t beat him, and you resent him for it. All you want is for him to get beaten as well, so you can go back to being the same. It’s crab mentality.

The problem to me is the awful way that the classes in the game are treated. I made a post awhile back, but for about two years fully half of the elementalist traits were so bad that they never had a place on any possible build. It was terrible. There are still enormous amounts of traits and weapons that have no place in any part of the game. That is not ok. And when anet does nerf things, they go way over the top with it. For practical examples, remember when warrior had an awesome greatsword + quickness dps build? Remember necro before the dhuumfire fiasco? And engineer got gutted this patch. Or, hell, remember when mesmers had viable confusion specs at launch?

There should not be useless traits, utilities, or weapons. Classes should have actual choices about the strategies they employ. I’m not saying there don’t need to be any changes to mesmer ever, but you can’t compare a class that’s working for the first time in three years to the barely functioning state of most of the classes today and say that mesmer should be nerfed on that basis. This game needs serious buffs.

The thing that everyone hate isnt’ the synergy in traits and skills, it’s the thing that they can deal more or less 15-18k of damage just pressing F1, from hide, with no way to make you prevent that damage with skills (more or less) because you’re dazed.
And because they have a very large amount of ways to protect them, making them one of the dangerous classes in the game.

lol at “trait synergy”

most of the traits that HAD the synergy was made baseline, most of what mesmers are left with are “icings” traits while nearly all of the “meat and potatoes” traits have been rolled into being baseline.

pple are asking for mesmer nerf because they left mesmers to burst them in team fights and dont focus them ofc they want game where mesmers and thieves are dpsing them doing nothing so they can fight wars with endure pain

Mesmers aren’t that OP right now, but they do need a few selective nerfs. Some damage shaves, and a change to the daze trait, and they will be fine. The real problem is that you can instant cast a daze, mirror blade, mind stab, mind wrack and down most people. That’s simply too strong of a burst in comparison to every other class.

You know what’s even sadder than this “Crab Mentality” theory that YOU just made?

People in denial. Specifically the Mesmer mains such as you. Stop defending your class so that this game can achieve real balancing, there is nothing wrong with people trying to make the game better.

well so they will basically nerf traits and we will be in same situation as before one build for every class no options…….instead of nerfing buff other traits so pple really dunno what to get because of how good every trait is……and buff other classes that are behind mesmer.

I didnt enjoy killing celes for 1 hour it was really boring pvp

Silv.9207 – literally nothing you described is new. You are more or less complaining that mesmers exist. This is a ltp issue.

Darknicrofia.2604 – This is not an argument that mesmers should be nerfed. You actually support my point that other classes need to be buffed.

zapv.8051 – One of the first posts I made on this board was an analysis of why burst gameplay in gw2 was bad for all gameplay. But, basically, because self-healing is so high, and because all your health regenerates when out of combat, there is no attrition in this game. Because there’s no attrition, in order to be able to kill a ‘bunker’, damage builds need a way to burst them down, either solo or as a pair of two. It’s a huge flaw fundamental to gw2 design.

Nier.8741 – This is exactly what I’m talking about. The game will be better when all classes are like mesmer, and none are like current engi and necro. There have been too many interesting ways to play classes that have been flat out removed by being nerfed to oblivion. The game has gotten less strategically diverse as time goes on.

Arkimedes.8730:

Silv.9207 – literally nothing you described is new. You are more or less complaining that mesmers exist. This is a ltp issue.

Darknicrofia.2604 – This is not an argument that mesmers should be nerfed. You actually support my point that other classes need to be buffed.

zapv.8051 – One of the first posts I made on this board was an analysis of why burst gameplay in gw2 was bad for all gameplay. But, basically, because self-healing is so high, and because all your health regenerates when out of combat, there is no attrition in this game. Because there’s no attrition, in order to be able to kill a ‘bunker’, damage builds need a way to burst them down, either solo or as a pair of two. It’s a huge flaw fundamental to gw2 design.

Nier.8741 – This is exactly what I’m talking about. The game will be better when all classes are like mesmer, and none are like current engi and necro. There have been too many interesting ways to play classes that have been flat out removed by being nerfed to oblivion. The game has gotten less strategically diverse as time goes on.

So… basically you’re in favor of another power creep after this previous one?

A well done nerf won’t nerf a build into the ground and make it unusable. It’ll bring it in line with everything else.

While bringing up all other classes to match the problem classes/build might sound good to you, that’s a LOT more work than just bringing the problem classes/builds down. I would much rather have a faster fix and have my mes/ele toned down a bit rather than have things stay as they are for longer. A-net isn’t exactly pumping out the balance fixes…

Actually what this guy is saying makes sense.

Mesmer right now is in a very good shape, where so many different builds are viable. Why should it get nerfed?

Why not bring the other classes to the same level? Put all of them in a good shape as mesmer is right now? It does not mean make all classes do same damage as mesmer does, it means balance them up, with the special mechanics that each class contains.

I would love to see more diversity on thief for example (my main), instead of being forced to play the d/p build in order to be useful. (I’m talking about high end gameplay, not troll hot joins where anyone can play a troll build and make it useful against non experienced players)

But of course, this is amazingly difficult: Balance all classes around many different builds. WOW!!

I don’t see Anet that much involved on their balance and bug fixing issues to be able to achieve this wonderful objective.

They are lazy, and that way it’s much easier and less work to balance the classes around one only useful build for each class.

People right now are just jealous that mesmer became so versatile, so they ask for nerfs because they don’t have it. Like a little kid crying because the other kid got the lollipop.

Signed: a s/d thief who refuses to be carried by the stupd cheesy non-skilled faceroll d/p build

Aberrant.6749:

Arkimedes.8730:

Silv.9207 – literally nothing you described is new. You are more or less complaining that mesmers exist. This is a ltp issue.

Darknicrofia.2604 – This is not an argument that mesmers should be nerfed. You actually support my point that other classes need to be buffed.

zapv.8051 – One of the first posts I made on this board was an analysis of why burst gameplay in gw2 was bad for all gameplay. But, basically, because self-healing is so high, and because all your health regenerates when out of combat, there is no attrition in this game. Because there’s no attrition, in order to be able to kill a ‘bunker’, damage builds need a way to burst them down, either solo or as a pair of two. It’s a huge flaw fundamental to gw2 design.

Nier.8741 – This is exactly what I’m talking about. The game will be better when all classes are like mesmer, and none are like current engi and necro. There have been too many interesting ways to play classes that have been flat out removed by being nerfed to oblivion. The game has gotten less strategically diverse as time goes on.

So… basically you’re in favor of another power creep after this previous one?

A well done nerf won’t nerf a build into the ground and make it unusable. It’ll bring it in line with everything else.

While bringing up all other classes to match the problem classes/build might sound good to you, that’s a LOT more work than just bringing the problem classes/builds down. I would much rather have a faster fix and have my mes/ele toned down a bit rather than have things stay as they are for longer. A-net isn’t exactly pumping out the balance fixes…

The power creep has nothing to do with mesmer changes.
Its because of how they removed stats from traits and added it to rest of gear.
So basicly the power creep is equal for everyone and i love it.
There is still bunkers builds which is abomination to kill
but its not so dominant anymore.

zapv.8051:

The real problem is that you can instant cast a daze, mirror blade, mind stab, mind wrack and down most people. That’s simply too strong of a burst in comparison to every other class.

It’s a stun, in builds that do this.
If it were actually a daze you could dodge all that other stuff without needing to use stun breaks or other cooldowns.
Or if the stun duration were shorter.

I bring this up because, well, there’s nothing wrong with some kinda-spammable quick-casting short-duration daze. Thief’s pistol offhand has it and it’s useful but not in any way overpowered.

Also, it is probably worth noting that lots of classes have really good burst right now (including some condi builds :O ).

Mesmer is indefensible. Sorry, any good player knows that. Stop trying to deflect from the deserved nerfs. Blinding dissipation needs an icd and not hit even through dodge. Stuns need a rework. Shatter dmg itself needs a rework. PU needs to be nerfed. And mesmers will be in a good spot.

Lettuce.2945:

Mesmer is indefensible.

Ofcourse that comes from a faceroll ele player somone wants their free kills back.

Let’s talk about trait synergy when other classes get good traits baseline~

The joke is, IF other classes were brought to the same level of current mes it would be even more insane. Imagine thieves having invuls, aoe backstabs and multiple ranged stuns dealing dmg on top of it. I play thief and i would hate it.

Mesmers weren’t in bad state pre patch. They did require some experience and skill however, which was a good thing. It rewarded players for good play. I actually loved to have decent mesmer on team.
Now mesmer class rewards bad plays. I am by all means not a good mes and i can roll my face on one right now.

It is bad for everyone: it makes players from other classes quit game/pvp or reroll mesmers and spoils mesmer players. Once nerfs hit the class (and they will one day) we will have same issue as after turrets nerf: bunch of mesmers with high mmr not knowing how to play.

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

Until we are able to tank damage we need skills to avoid damage thats all.
Its not even a big deal 3 seconds. Use you’re autoattack.
What is the purpose of dodge?
what is the purpose of warrior endurance signet they even have heavy armor
What is the point of engineer protection injection?
What is the point of elementalist blinding ashes and shocking aura
Or ranger white raven f2 skill.
Its all there to avoid damage and blinding dissepation is so trivial compared to it.

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

You talk a lot. I searched your name in gw2score.com Pre LBs and the Current. But I could not find you, Where are you basing all your arguments again?

Hotjoin? Solo q against Low MMR players (Low Tiered Matches)

Or?

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

To tell you the truth, People complaining about the dodge part are oblivious to the real problem.

Fixing dodge would not make a difference. why? All those shatters are INSTANT. So how do you dodge something that you can never tell when will it come?

Exactly. Random Dodge.

Blinding Dissipation Should have an ICD.

OR

Make DE a master and Put Blinding Dissipation as A GM

So BD competes with HM, no more full offensive and full defensive builds at the same time.

StickerHappy.8052:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

You talk a lot. I searched your name in gw2score.com Pre LBs and the Current. But I could not find you, Where are you basing all your arguments again?

Hotjoin? Solo q against Low MMR players (Low Tiered Matches)

Or?

I play soloq so im never getting anywhere near leaderboard and i dont care.
Normal unrank/rank but there are a lot of elitist copycats around.

Extreme.8350:

StickerHappy.8052:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

You talk a lot. I searched your name in gw2score.com Pre LBs and the Current. But I could not find you, Where are you basing all your arguments again?

Hotjoin? Solo q against Low MMR players (Low Tiered Matches)

Or?

I play soloq so im never getting anywhere near leaderboard and i dont care.
Normal unrank/rank but there are a lot of elitist copycats around.

Exactly, so all these fancy, technical terms are all from low MMR matches?

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

Until we are able to tank damage we need skills to avoid damage thats all.
Its not even a big deal 3 seconds. Use you’re autoattack.
What is the purpose of dodge?
what is the purpose of warrior endurance signet they even have heavy armor
What is the point of engineer protection injection?
What is the point of elementalist blinding ashes and shocking aura
Or ranger white raven f2 skill.
Its all there to avoid damage and blinding dissepation is so trivial compared to it.

As far as i am aware, mesmer can take more beating than some other classes. I don’t see why they need unavoidable aoe blind.

Nah, it is not big deal, 3 sec blind would be ok if it didn’t pile up together with dazes/stuns, stealthes, aoe nukes and invuls.

Please explain me how warrior signet is relevant? His dodges don’t affect my ability of hitting him if i time it right.
Protection doesn’t prevent me from hitting target.
Blinding ashes only work if burning actually hit target. If target avoided burning they are not blinded. Same for shocking aura.
Ranger pet actually needs to hit you.

How is unavoidable blinding dissepation trivial compared to those?

None of the classes you listed can actually dish as much dmg as current mes in short period of time while having same level of survival/CC/moblity.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

To tell you the truth, People complaining about the dodge part are oblivious to the real problem.

Fixing dodge would not make a difference. why? All those shatters are INSTANT. So how do you dodge something that you can never tell when will it come?

Exactly. Random Dodge.

Blinding Dissipation Should have an ICD.

OR

Make DE a master and Put Blinding Dissipation as A GM

So BD competes with HM, no more full offensive and full defensive builds at the same time.

Shatters can be predicted same way steal can be predicted. It is not easy but possible, especially if you know playstyle of the person you are facing. Given mesmers have more stealth atm but it is kind of limited if they are more offense oriented (which i am refering to atm).

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

Until we are able to tank damage we need skills to avoid damage thats all.
Its not even a big deal 3 seconds. Use you’re autoattack.
What is the purpose of dodge?
what is the purpose of warrior endurance signet they even have heavy armor
What is the point of engineer protection injection?
What is the point of elementalist blinding ashes and shocking aura
Or ranger white raven f2 skill.
Its all there to avoid damage and blinding dissepation is so trivial compared to it.

As far as i am aware, mesmer can take more beating than some other classes. I don’t see why they need unavoidable aoe blind.

Nah, it is not big deal, 3 sec blind would be ok if it didn’t pile up together with dazes/stuns, stealthes, aoe nukes and invuls.

Please explain me how warrior signet is relevant? His dodges don’t affect my ability of hitting him if i time it right.
Protection doesn’t prevent me from hitting target.
Blinding ashes only work if burning actually hit target. If target avoided burning they are not blinded. Same for shocking aura.
Ranger pet actually needs to hit you.

How is unavoidable blinding dissepation trivial compared to those?

None of the classes you listed can actually dish as much dmg as current mes in short period of time while having same level of survival/CC/moblity.

Please reply to my post. Because I think undodgeable blinds are not the problem, because you still have to get lucky to dodge them in the first place.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

Until we are able to tank damage we need skills to avoid damage thats all.
Its not even a big deal 3 seconds. Use you’re autoattack.
What is the purpose of dodge?
what is the purpose of warrior endurance signet they even have heavy armor
What is the point of engineer protection injection?
What is the point of elementalist blinding ashes and shocking aura
Or ranger white raven f2 skill.
Its all there to avoid damage and blinding dissepation is so trivial compared to it.

As far as i am aware, mesmer can take more beating than some other classes. I don’t see why they need unavoidable aoe blind.

Nah, it is not big deal, 3 sec blind would be ok if it didn’t pile up together with dazes/stuns, stealthes, aoe nukes and invuls.

Please explain me how warrior signet is relevant? His dodges don’t affect my ability of hitting him if i time it right.
Protection doesn’t prevent me from hitting target.
Blinding ashes only work if burning actually hit target. If target avoided burning they are not blinded. Same for shocking aura.
Ranger pet actually needs to hit you.

How is unavoidable blinding dissepation trivial compared to those?

None of the classes you listed can actually dish as much dmg as current mes in short period of time while having same level of survival/CC/moblity.

Please reply to my post. Because I think undodgeable blinds are not the problem, because you still have to get lucky to dodge them in the first place.

done :P

Go and try to kill eles with mesmer without using moa and null field and tell me we dont need it Also as glass mesmer thieves hit super hard 3 hits and you’re done.

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

Until we are able to tank damage we need skills to avoid damage thats all.
Its not even a big deal 3 seconds. Use you’re autoattack.
What is the purpose of dodge?
what is the purpose of warrior endurance signet they even have heavy armor
What is the point of engineer protection injection?
What is the point of elementalist blinding ashes and shocking aura
Or ranger white raven f2 skill.
Its all there to avoid damage and blinding dissepation is so trivial compared to it.

As far as i am aware, mesmer can take more beating than some other classes. I don’t see why they need unavoidable aoe blind.

Nah, it is not big deal, 3 sec blind would be ok if it didn’t pile up together with dazes/stuns, stealthes, aoe nukes and invuls.

Please explain me how warrior signet is relevant? His dodges don’t affect my ability of hitting him if i time it right.
Protection doesn’t prevent me from hitting target.
Blinding ashes only work if burning actually hit target. If target avoided burning they are not blinded. Same for shocking aura.
Ranger pet actually needs to hit you.

How is unavoidable blinding dissepation trivial compared to those?

None of the classes you listed can actually dish as much dmg as current mes in short period of time while having same level of survival/CC/moblity.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills
Ele players who think this is over the top while having perma protection+regen wow.

it is ok being punished for dodging instant aoe skill? wow ok lol

The blind dosen’t come from shatter clones its anything in melee range of mesmer.
Why should you be able to dodge it? the point is to counter an attack.

by that logic shadow shot blind shouldn’t be blockable/dodgeable….

and while we are at, why not make all attacks non-dodgeable… wait i have better idea, let’s remove dodge all together!

please explain me what is purpose of dodge in this game

To tell you the truth, People complaining about the dodge part are oblivious to the real problem.

Fixing dodge would not make a difference. why? All those shatters are INSTANT. So how do you dodge something that you can never tell when will it come?

Exactly. Random Dodge.

Blinding Dissipation Should have an ICD.

OR

Make DE a master and Put Blinding Dissipation as A GM

So BD competes with HM, no more full offensive and full defensive builds at the same time.

Shatters can be predicted same way steal can be predicted. It is not easy but possible, especially if you know playstyle of the person you are facing. Given mesmers have more stealth atm but it is kind of limited if they are more offense oriented (which i am refering to atm).

You are partly correct. But we are talking bout 3 more shatters here 4 if you wanna include chrono.

So how do you dodge all 4?

Okay lets make this easier.

Mind Wrack has a 12 second CD. Aoe Blinds for a 12 second CD. Does Aoe Damage too.

Having an ICD will make it fair,

Another thing.

Sudden death you can also kill a mesmer, but he can spam that blind using all 4 shatters as a last ditch effort. All at the same time doing all their effects.

Really good defense right?

Now Think about reality. Thats only blinds, not counting ports, distorts, stealth that a mesmer can get on top of doing damage

Extreme.8350:

Go and try to kill eles with mesmer without using moa and null field and tell me we dont need it Also as glass mesmer thieves hit super hard 3 hits and you’re done.

Ah ya this one bothered me too. Actually mes with some brain gave eles hard times pre patch and countered them to extend. I honestly can’t understand how mesmer has ANY room to complain abou eles (and by all means i don’t play one and can’t stand them in fact). But then again, mesmers and eles i knew/talked to pre patch play on top teams~
After patch, i feel like mes vs ele went even more into favor for mesmers.

Glass thief has 11k HP, shatter does 13k dmg. Thieves have no invuls, they have to go in melee to burst and their dazes don’t do dmg. Do i really need to say more?

@Stcker: i am not arguing that mesmers need some toning down, but i don’t think that blind from shatter needs to be removed. Mesmers do have to trait for it and if it was avoidable they would actually need to land shatter.

Certanly they can do 4 shatters but smart mes won’t spam those.
I do agree on ICD, but not long one. Not sure if it will help though, because as i said smart mes won’t spam shatters.

I am not worried about ports, mesmers need them as they are squishy bursty class. Invul is questionable, with amount of stealth they have atm i think invul or stealth stacking needs to be close to exclusive.

Extreme.8350:

Blinding dissepation is not over the top we need it not to be free kills

Err, nope. Try Evasive Mirror instead and you’ll do fine. About the only times I’ve found Blinding Dissipation to be a must-have game-changer was actually in dueling other blind-spam zerk builds (like D/P and mediguard); in all other circumstances it was very powerful but hardly necessary.

Nothing about BD’s defensive role requires that it be undodgable/unblockable, for one very simple reason: if someone is evading when you’re popping BD, it means they’re not bursting you right then and there in the first place. It’s a very potent trait that’s fairly easy to use; I have no complaints about at least forcing players to time it to coincide with an actual attack.

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Go and try to kill eles with mesmer without using moa and null field and tell me we dont need it Also as glass mesmer thieves hit super hard 3 hits and you’re done.

Ah ya this one bothered me too. Actually mes with some brain gave eles hard times pre patch and countered them to extend. I honestly can’t understand how mesmer has ANY room to complain abou eles (and by all means i don’t play one and can’t stand them in fact). But then again, mesmers and eles i knew/talked to pre patch play on top teams~

Glass thief has 11k HP, shatter does 13k dmg. Thieves have no invuls, they have to go in melee to burst and their dazes don’t do dmg. Do i really need to say more?

The way thieves play they always add in a fight with their superior mobility so by the time you got them on you’re back those shatters are probably already on cooldown.
Im done here if helset and other top players agree with you by all means nerf it.

StickerHappy.8052:

OR

Make DE a master and Put Blinding Dissipation as A GM

So BD competes with HM, no more full offensive and full defensive builds at the same time.

What would this change actually accomplish? Build that took BD + DE just take DE + BD instead. Done! The end! No change!

ASP.8093:

StickerHappy.8052:

OR

Make DE a master and Put Blinding Dissipation as A GM

So BD competes with HM, no more full offensive and full defensive builds at the same time.

What would this change actually accomplish? Build that took BD + DE just take DE + BD instead. Done! The end! No change!

No change? You dont get the damage boost for HM.

Extreme.8350:

Cynz.9437:

Extreme.8350:

Go and try to kill eles with mesmer without using moa and null field and tell me we dont need it Also as glass mesmer thieves hit super hard 3 hits and you’re done.

Ah ya this one bothered me too. Actually mes with some brain gave eles hard times pre patch and countered them to extend. I honestly can’t understand how mesmer has ANY room to complain abou eles (and by all means i don’t play one and can’t stand them in fact). But then again, mesmers and eles i knew/talked to pre patch play on top teams~

Glass thief has 11k HP, shatter does 13k dmg. Thieves have no invuls, they have to go in melee to burst and their dazes don’t do dmg. Do i really need to say more?

The way thieves play they always add in a fight with their superior mobility so by the time you got them on you’re back those shatters are probably already on cooldown.
Im done here if helset and other top players agree with you by all means nerf it.

Wait, now you actually complain about outnumbered fights and justify unavoidable blinds with it?

Brb asking Frosty if he thinks mesmers don’t need nerfing and weither or not they were doing fine vs eles. Also, why is everyone so obsessed with Helseth, he is probably best mesmer as far rotations/portal plays go but there are few mesmers out there that are really good in fights.

Extreme.8350:

Aberrant.6749:

Arkimedes.8730:

Silv.9207 – literally nothing you described is new. You are more or less complaining that mesmers exist. This is a ltp issue.

Darknicrofia.2604 – This is not an argument that mesmers should be nerfed. You actually support my point that other classes need to be buffed.

zapv.8051 – One of the first posts I made on this board was an analysis of why burst gameplay in gw2 was bad for all gameplay. But, basically, because self-healing is so high, and because all your health regenerates when out of combat, there is no attrition in this game. Because there’s no attrition, in order to be able to kill a ‘bunker’, damage builds need a way to burst them down, either solo or as a pair of two. It’s a huge flaw fundamental to gw2 design.

Nier.8741 – This is exactly what I’m talking about. The game will be better when all classes are like mesmer, and none are like current engi and necro. There have been too many interesting ways to play classes that have been flat out removed by being nerfed to oblivion. The game has gotten less strategically diverse as time goes on.

So… basically you’re in favor of another power creep after this previous one?

A well done nerf won’t nerf a build into the ground and make it unusable. It’ll bring it in line with everything else.

While bringing up all other classes to match the problem classes/build might sound good to you, that’s a LOT more work than just bringing the problem classes/builds down. I would much rather have a faster fix and have my mes/ele toned down a bit rather than have things stay as they are for longer. A-net isn’t exactly pumping out the balance fixes…

The power creep has nothing to do with mesmer changes.
Its because of how they removed stats from traits and added it to rest of gear.
So basicly the power creep is equal for everyone and i love it.
There is still bunkers builds which is abomination to kill
but its not so dominant anymore.

I disagree that it only has to do with the stats being moved. The traits that are now available due to having 3 full trait lines also has a lot to do with it.

StickerHappy.8052:

No change? You dont get the damage boost for HM.

DE builds already don’t get the damage boost from HM.

ASP.8093:

StickerHappy.8052:

No change? You dont get the damage boost for HM.

DE builds already don’t get the damage boost from HM.

You are forgetting not every goes shatter

ITT: People who think 1200 range instant cast stun into 100-0 instant burst on a class with many blinks, blinds, stealth, and invulnerability is balanced!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

StickerHappy.8052:

You are forgetting not every goes shatter

…

There’s nothing special about HM that makes HM + BD builds trouble in a way that DE + BD builds aren’t.

Plus, you’d be opening up HM + DE which is a whole separate kettle of fish.

Extreme.8350:

Go and try to kill eles with mesmer without using moa and null field and tell me we dont need it Also as glass mesmer thieves hit super hard 3 hits and you’re done.

You don’t need it.

Sorry
BD is bugged and it needs to be fixed.

There is no logical argument that a bugged trait should stay as it is.

Taunt going through evades, fixed in a week

Blinds going through evades, still yet to be even looked into

I know they’re 2 diffferent things, but it’s the principle of game breaking bugs being overlooked in certain areas and then immediately fixed in other areas. This game’s balancing is just kittening TERRIBLE.

smh

Solori.6025:

Extreme.8350:

Go and try to kill eles with mesmer without using moa and null field and tell me we dont need it Also as glass mesmer thieves hit super hard 3 hits and you’re done.

Sorry
BD is bugged and it needs to be fixed.

Please elaborate how it is bugged.

ASP.8093:

zapv.8051:

The real problem is that you can instant cast a daze, mirror blade, mind stab, mind wrack and down most people. That’s simply too strong of a burst in comparison to every other class.

It’s a stun, in builds that do this.
If it were actually a daze you could dodge all that other stuff without needing to use stun breaks or other cooldowns.
Or if the stun duration were shorter.

I bring this up because, well, there’s nothing wrong with some kinda-spammable quick-casting short-duration daze. Thief’s pistol offhand has it and it’s useful but not in any way overpowered.

Also, it is probably worth noting that lots of classes have really good burst right now (including some condi builds :O ).

Right you are. If the mantra only dazed it would be ok, but having 3 instant cast stuns because of the trait is too strong in most matchups.

Extreme.8350:

Lettuce.2945:

Mesmer is indefensible.

Ofcourse that comes from a faceroll ele player somone wants their free kills back.

Except for the fact he actually quit playing ele and demands nerfs on that class too. BTW you definitely do not need to moa + null field to kill an ele, I wouldn’t even recommend using those tools to do it in the first place.

Extreme.8350:

Lettuce.2945:

Mesmer is indefensible.

Ofcourse that comes from a faceroll ele player somone wants their free kills back.

Kind of funny because if you actually go through my post history, I actually demanded a lot of ele nerfs and suggested a lot of balance fixes to shave eles down. A list of 8 suggested nerfs actually. 8. See that number? 8. I don’t play my ele as much anymore since patch since it’s “faceroll” as you suggested.

The difference between me and you? I can actually admit what I main (or rather, mained) is faceroll. Now, admit mesmers are faceroll or you’re just trying to “defend” your “faceroll”. Every dominant mesmer I know have admitted it’s faceroll. Aili. Rylock. TAS (Even though I hate him). Tek Esper. The list goes on.

Your blinding dissipation argument is poorly constructed with the shadowshot metaphor. You can actually dodge the shadowshot. BD has NO way to evade it. None. You have to either pop invul, remove the blind, or have immunity to condi in order to counter it. Skillful much? Oh! Let’s not forget! It has no icd! Such skill. Much wow. Such impress. sarcasm off.

The ironic thing? I saw mesmers/eles needed to be nerfed since day one. People have been defending it since I suggested eles needed to be toned down since day one. People are now starting to open their eyes to the truth. Time for you to open yours.

Everything OP said is correct. Mesmer is fine as it is. The big success story of the trait revamp in terms of making a former joke profession in PvP strong and viable. Only two things need a slight change. BD blind shouldn’t go through evade. CS stun cooldown should probably be ten seconds not five. Other than that, nothing needs to be done.

its so fun having blind on me all the time when a mesmer is around and not being able to clear it because i am stunned after i try to do anything to remove it. and when its gone its instantly back on me again so fair.

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

Everything OP said is correct. Mesmer is fine as it is. The big success story of the trait revamp in terms of making a former joke profession in PvP strong and viable. Only two things need a slight change. BD blind shouldn’t go through evade. CS stun cooldown should probably be ten seconds not five. Other than that, nothing needs to be done.

Former joke? Almost every team had a mesmer pre-patch and you had to actually be good to play mesmer pre-patch. Yes, mesmer was 100x harder to play than it is now, but it was STILL a part of the meta and now it’s essentially a braindead faceroll class now with the burst setups and survivability mixed with evasion and invulns and of course the uniqueness of portal and IoL so now teams have 2 mesmers each commonly. I think the only time mesmer hasn’t been in the meta was when spirit rangers and necros and it was a HEAVY condition meta because shatter would melt during this time because no condi clear but then it became cele meta and shatter mesmer came back due to boon stripping and burst damage on tankier targets.

Do you even watch top tier PvP? People like this really just need to not comment on topics they have no understanding of. If you really think mesmer is in a good spot right now you are as delusional as the rest of them.

Cynz.9437:

Shatters can be predicted same way steal can be predicted. It is not easy but possible, especially if you know playstyle of the person you are facing. Given mesmers have more stealth atm but it is kind of limited if they are more offense oriented (which i am refering to atm).

I don’t think comparing shatters and steal is really correct. While shatters are instant skills they are based on illusions and can be avoided, there is a tell. The illusions have to run up to you to do their effect, it’s not by any means the same as steal. Of course with IP baseline, you will get hit by one shatter with no tell, but still.