Dodges and evades are the most useful abilities in PvP, and they have been handed out like candy with HoT. I regularly see DDs just using there staff stomp skill in PvP to great effect because of the evade built into it.
Dodges and evades are the most useful abilities in PvP, and they have been handed out like candy with HoT. I regularly see DDs just using there staff stomp skill in PvP to great effect because of the evade built into it.
because they have no sustain.
pretty sure that DD would be happy to evade less if thief had condi cleanse and could be viable without running part to full glass.
just saiyan. Take note of how much HP the thief had with a 14 sec cd heal AND all of those evades, after fighting that mesmer.
u rite tho, teef op
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
So let me get this straight, They Nerf Acrobatic’s because you guy’s couldn’t figure out that CC and conditions countered that spec. They hand out reveals, Aoe ,CC’s and conditions like candy (elite specs) then give thief’s a sub par version of acro. and your still complaining?
Thief needs to get cd’s on their mobility skills which is also vault.
Even though the thief finished that fight with less than 2,000 hp?
Think hard now.
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
With reveal added to many classes thief needed some form of compensation. Now stealth strategies are replaced with active defense (which still has a decently high skill cap)
You aren’t owed a victory just because your opponent was a thief.
“Thief needs to get cd’s on their mobility skills which is also vault.”
With initiative all abilities share a cooldown, even if you weapon swap.
Thief needs to get cd’s on their mobility skills which is also vault.
Even though the thief finished that fight with less than 2,000 hp?
Think hard now.
I think revenant was supposed to be balanced on energy system and yet on top of energy PT also got slapped cd. So i dont see any reason why thief cant get slapped cd on vault, inf arrow, shadowshot to avoid spamming insane mobility.
Think harder. Its been too long and it time for some mobility nerfs in form of cds for thief. Also you cant really ask for some buffs to sustain with such mobility right? Ofc you not.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
Thief needs to get cd’s on their mobility skills which is also vault.
Even though the thief finished that fight with less than 2,000 hp?
Think hard now.
I think revenant was supposed to be balanced on energy system and yet on top of energy PT also got slapped cd. So i dont see any reason why thief cant get slapped cd on vault, inf arrow, shadowshot to avoid spamming insane mobility.
Think harder. Its been too long and it time for some mobility nerfs in form of cds for thief. Also you cant really ask for some buffs to sustain with such mobility right? Ofc you not.
Oh yeah
you right
Theef OP
mb I must have had too much heresy to drink, dunno why I said that thieves were balanced
Resident Disgruntled, Coffee-drinking Charr.
Zarin Mistcloak(THF) Valkyrie Mistblade(WAR) Kossori Mistwalker(REV) Durendal Mistward(GRD)
I used to think (build op, pls nerf) like you, but then I took a nerf to the knee.
Thief needs to get cd’s on their mobility skills which is also vault.
Even though the thief finished that fight with less than 2,000 hp?
Think hard now.
I think revenant was supposed to be balanced on energy system and yet on top of energy PT also got slapped cd. So i dont see any reason why thief cant get slapped cd on vault, inf arrow, shadowshot to avoid spamming insane mobility.
Think harder. Its been too long and it time for some mobility nerfs in form of cds for thief. Also you cant really ask for some buffs to sustain with such mobility right? Ofc you not.
The problem there is it would make thief easier to kill and thief is too squishy as it is. You actually need those mobility skills and dodges in order to survive. There’s a reason why thief is never placed in good or even mid tier in the tier threads. The mobility skills also come with a high initiative cost so if you use shortbow #5 twice you aren’t going to be cloak and daggering for a few seconds. If they put mobility skills on a CD then they need to get rid of initiative and rebalance all the skills so you can shortbow #5 away, swap to sword/dagger, and because you can’t chain the 5+1 a few times give a significant damage buff to compensate for lost DPS.
Like I said dueling a thief doesn’t mean you’re owed a free lootbag. L2P.
I main thief, thief is all I pay. Literally the only thing I have going for me is dodging. One if the lowest HP pools? Yes. Middling damage? Done. No sustain? Of course.
If you’re good at ONLY one thing, you had better be amazing at it. I can win in PVP, I can even 1v1 which is increasingly harder to do with thief. And it’s 91 percent thanks to well timed dodging.
For the love of the high damage, high mobility, glass cannon. Thief to the bitter end.
If they put mobility skills on a CD then they need to get rid of initiative and rebalance all the skills so you can shortbow #5 away
But that dindt stopped revenant from getting cd on top of energy right? Almost the same system, one uses ini for weapon skills olny so they dont regain energy on swap and another uses energy on everything but aa and gain some energy on swap along with different utility skills that may not be useful at x time. I dont see a reason why thief cant receive cd’s. As for that l2p i would gladly show ya in game few tricks under my boots but then again why i should bother with noname throwing insults on forum aka forum warrior.
A thief asking for sustain while being able to reset fight at will and run from anyone as nobody in this game can match their mobility except another thief. Thats just too funny if someone ask me. Want sustain? Prepare for mobility nerf. You dont want nerf to mobility? Then stop asking for sustain buffs. Simple as that.
Salt, salt, moar salt. So salty like fries from McDonald!
Playing Smite since mid s2, f broken gw2.
I completely understand the frustration of fighting a daredevil with practically permanent dodge (I main a daredevil). While I’m playing the class vs most people except DH, it feels incredibly fun, but I am always left thinking “man I bet I must kitten people the hell off”. I do think the amount of dodges you can perform is a bit ridiculous, but as others have stated it IS necessary for the their in it’s current state to survive without stealth. Heck even with the massive amount of dodges you still die quickly. I think thieves and their enemies would enjoy it more, and it would feel more skillful than spammy, if the amount of evades was toned down while giving sustain in another form to compensate.
I love this community and its disposition to ram Thief player’s Kittens up into oblivion with well-sharpened shovels for things that literally scream “l2p, this tactic is garbage”.
Thief needs to get cd’s on their mobility skills which is also vault.
Even though the thief finished that fight with less than 2,000 hp?
Think hard now.
I think revenant was supposed to be balanced on energy system and yet on top of energy PT also got slapped cd. So i dont see any reason why thief cant get slapped cd on vault, inf arrow, shadowshot to avoid spamming insane mobility.
Think harder. Its been too long and it time for some mobility nerfs in form of cds for thief. Also you cant really ask for some buffs to sustain with such mobility right? Ofc you not.
You mean a freash bar of init after weapon swap. Or a new bar of utitiles. Totally forgot we have that. Oh wait they are two different class. Think harder.
Yeah Thief currently has less possible evades than the first 2 years of the game when we had Feline Reflexes giving 15 endurance back per 50 point dodge making them only cost 35. Shortbow also lasted .75 seconds and was nerfed to .5 with the same animation. Vault costs more than the rest of the evades with the same duration but longer animation.
So let me get this straight, They Nerf Acrobatic’s because you guy’s couldn’t figure out that CC and conditions countered that spec. They hand out reveals, Aoe ,CC’s and conditions like candy (elite specs) then give thief’s a sub par version of acro. and your still complaining?
I don’t think the evade on vault should start at the beginning because it all but ensures the attack will land. I don’t think a high damage spammable skill should have an evade like that baked in.
Either you interrupt it before it happens, which is just luck, or you avoid it and it gets spammed again, or you eat it.
Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.
But the evade is on the start, so when the thief flips you can blind/block/interrupt/KILL. I mean, you probably don’t know this but Thief dies to stiff breeze.
1. this is not perma dodge build
2. this mes didn’t know what he was doing… -_-
3. bring this build vs organized teams and that thief would spend entire game at spawn
I don’t think the evade on vault should start at the beginning because it all but ensures the attack will land. I don’t think a high damage spammable skill should have an evade like that baked in.
Either you interrupt it before it happens, which is just luck, or you avoid it and it gets spammed again, or you eat it.
I’m pretty sure the reason the evade on vault occurs at the beginning is so thieves can actually use it as an active evade to help survive incoming burst. I mean, think of how silly and awkward vault would be if the evade occurred somewhere in the animation other than the beginning. You wouldn’t be able to use it appropriately to take advantage of traits that complement it properly. As far as the skill being spammable, it’s also extremely telegraphed so it’s fairly easy to dodge or block as well. It’s not like Vault has a built in stun as well or anything, so even if you get hit by one, if you see the thief bounding up in the air for another you at least have been given plenty of time to react at that point.
I’ve played my DD a bit in PvP and it was fun, yes, but nowhere near as strong as other builds I’ve played on other classes so far. Besides, most thieves I see running DD traits aren’t even using staff, they’re still using d/p. Not sure if that will change or not if the meta shifts at all.
I suspect it won’t because even with all of the apparent reveal flying around, stealth is still a very potent tool. With unhindered giving the D/P thief a way to quickly create some distance, once he learns to read reveal tells (if they’re that exaggerated, I haven’t ran into many people using them and herald is melee range), thieves will go back to being able to at least comfortably stealth.
A skilled thief would have finished that fight against the mesmer with 90+% hp and way faster. He missed an insane amount of abilities, and didn’t even pressure the mesmer right and allowed a heal even though he could have just steal to finish off the mesmer off at that point instead of just circling around with full initiative.
I wonder if people realize you can actually walk out of vault(9:15 – 9:18) when you see it. Not dodge, walk out of it, unless you’re walking backwards(12:25). Now if only it had a ridiculous animation that made you say “Hey, he jumped 10 feet in the air, let me just sidestep this.” I apologize to people who stand in one place and don’t move while casting spells(1:29 stands still then walks into vault). I can see how that could be frustrating. If you paid attention to the video his missed most of vault due to his opponent just walking out of it(example 1:35, 9:15 – 9:18). His only been hitting his vault on point on downed opponents ;p. When the opponent sees it coming like the guardian he just blocks it and invulns leaving him without initiative making him a sitting duck(10:30 – 11:30). What’s killing his opponents is bound not vault, but that takes a really really long time(He killed the thief the fastest XD). All this information was gathered from this video as a reference(For the people having difficulty against vaulting thieves).
Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world.
Einstein
What are you asking for is to balance a class basing your request on a pvp video between 2 realy bad players? That makes sense and I guess Devs could even do it since they test things on dummies.
Thief might not be as strong as last year
but they’re a lot stronger
than they will be next year!
I bet thieves will say these people are bad players also.
You can say so again and again.
How handy?
Let’s see how many people you can make bad players.
I bet thieves will say these people are bad players also.
You can say so again and again.
How handy?
Let’s see how many people you can make bad players.
Just for the record, 90% of the playerbase is bad and at least half of them know it.
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
I bet thieves will say these people are bad players also.
You can say so again and again.
How handy?
Let’s see how many people you can make bad players.
Just for the record, 90% of the playerbase is bad and at least half of them know it.
Good point.
If they are 90% of the playerbase, we should call them normal rather than bad.
And balancing should be for those 90%.
I bet thieves will say these people are bad players also.
You can say so again and again.
How handy?
Let’s see how many people you can make bad players.
Uhh half of those fights had people keyboard turning, 1 vs 2/3s against projectile shooting people who keep attacking during Dagger Storm. All of them are off point besides the keyboard turning rampage Warrior he still almost died to.
I bet thieves will say these people are bad players also.
You can say so again and again.
How handy?
Let’s see how many people you can make bad players.
Just for the record, 90% of the playerbase is bad and at least half of them know it.
Good point.
If they are 90% of the playerbase, we should call them normal rather than bad.
And balancing should be for those 90%.
Which is what thieves have been trying to do since forever.
The profession is not new-player-friendly. You cannot mindlessly rotate skills but instead watch a resource that every skill, save utilities, are reliant on and balanced around. And said skills also require the high utility they have so when a thief needs to defend themselves they have something available to do so.
Evasion and stealth spam makes up for the lack of passive defenses and access to defensive boons other professions have ample supply of. And even then it isn’t enough because thief does not have the natural armor or health pool to really survive for very long.
That is why thieves, DD or not, are mostly stuck with back capping and being a pet. The only thing that counteracts all this is if the player is good and only 10% of the playerbase is good.
Thieves would like the profession to be more friendly for new players but it’ll never happen until it gets more passive defense like a higher HP pool, armor or passive defense traits.
Liaison for [Teef]
“Please stop complaining about stuff you don’t even know about.” ~Nocta
Mesmer has a lot of ways to go invulnerable and now has shield for blocks on top of a ton of reflects…
And you’re crying about a Thief that can evade a lot? Please…
I’m sorry but I’ve played Mesmer and I know people that have also played it after maining a different class and have stopped just to go “wow, this is so easy.” Mesmer is the only profession in Gw2 designed for 1v1’s in a game that isn’t balanced around 1v1’s. Please refrain from using videos that appear to make them underpowered when in actuality the player is just awful.
Spammable evades are powerful, we all agree on that. But you know what? Core Thief isn’t very strong anymore. The high access to evades they have is what they need to lift themselves back up in to a competitive spot again that doesn’t involve +1’ing everything to get a kill.
I don’t main Thief and I never have. But I’ll defend their right to have a somewhat annoying mechanic if it means focusing on balancing the things that actually are broken instead of just letting all the crying children get their way and having Thief nerfed in to the ground yet again.
The amount of crying by players being killed to more skilled ones is colossal. This subforum should really just be closed cause I fear ANET will keep listening to that plague.
The amount of crying by players being killed to more skilled ones is colossal. This subforum should really just be closed cause I fear ANET will keep listening to that plague.
I feel like the turret engi nerf taught the forum that emotional QQ from idiots gets results.
avergae gw2 PvP player does not even know about combo fields. balancing for people that scrubby is just insane.
. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria
I made a daredevil condition build (d/d/lotus), it had a lot higher evasion uptime than this one. Somehow, even when evading 100% of the time and constantly cleansing conditions while dishing out stacks of bleeding hardly won me many fights It might look op on paper tho.
I completely understand the frustration of fighting a daredevil with practically permanent dodge (I main a daredevil). While I’m playing the class vs most people except DH, it feels incredibly fun, but I am always left thinking “man I bet I must kitten people the hell off”. I do think the amount of dodges you can perform is a bit ridiculous, but as others have stated it IS necessary for the their in it’s current state to survive without stealth. Heck even with the massive amount of dodges you still die quickly. I think thieves and their enemies would enjoy it more, and it would feel more skillful than spammy, if the amount of evades was toned down while giving sustain in another form to compensate.
I am so sick and tired of hearing this kind of thing from unskilled players.. Trust me in high level play DD is by far the worst elite spec besides berserker. They need the dodges just like every other class needs their active defenses.. Argue all you want, all classes have special active defenses.. Unlike other classes thief dies in one hit without its dodge. So your complaints are silly. Mesmers with their invilns and stealths or guardians and their crazy dmg / tankyness/ infinite blocks. Warriors Rangers and eles all have a self invuln, higher health pool and better defense. This video you posted too isn’t proving anything.. I just watched a sub par thief fight a really bad Mesmer and come out on top almost dead.. How was he op? One wrong move and that Mesmer would have had him. So your telling me because a thief won a duel (God forbid) it makes them op? Wow.. Let me show you some really overpowered chronomanser gameplay that will make you cringe.. Thief’s should be able to win 1v1. They are not pets they are a class.. I am happy anet is finally seeming to care for them.
I am so sick and tired of hearing this kind of thing from unskilled players.. Trust me in high level play DD is by far the worst elite spec besides berserker. They need the dodges just like every other class needs their active defenses.. Argue all you want, all classes have special active defenses.. Unlike other classes thief dies in one hit without its dodge. So your complaints are silly. Mesmers with their invilns and stealths or guardians and their crazy dmg / tankyness/ infinite blocks. Warriors Rangers and eles all have a self invuln, higher health pool and better defense. This video you posted too isn’t proving anything.. I just watched a sub par thief fight a really bad Mesmer and come out on top almost dead.. How was he op? One wrong move and that Mesmer would have had him. So your telling me because a thief won a duel (God forbid) it makes them op? Wow.. Let me show you some really overpowered chronomanser gameplay that will make you cringe.. Thief’s should be able to win 1v1. They are not pets they are a class.. I am happy anet is finally seeming to care for them.
Then show me “some really overpowered chronomancer gameplay” you mentioned.
In this match, this Daredevil killed not only a mesmer.
I bet thieves will say these people are bad players also.
You can say so again and again.
How handy?
Let’s see how many people you can make bad players.
kittening lol
Bristleback can’t hit anything? Let’s fix the HP bug instead.
I bet thieves will say these people are bad players also.
You can say so again and again.
How handy?
Let’s see how many people you can make bad players.
I enjoyed that video, tbh. The warrior at the start was almost cancerous with his stupidity. She got the dagger storm off so clutch I nearly choked in that SH clip.
People refuse to admit that, possibly, it’s their build that is deficient. She’s purely melee with very little mobility options. Avoid the caltrops and uncatchable procs and you’ll win easily. This is from my experience facing them as a P/P thief. My DH would literally lock her down after her first round of dodge spam and then its GG.
I am so sick and tired of hearing this kind of thing from unskilled players.. Trust me in high level play DD is by far the worst elite spec besides berserker. They need the dodges just like every other class needs their active defenses.. Argue all you want, all classes have special active defenses.. Unlike other classes thief dies in one hit without its dodge. So your complaints are silly. Mesmers with their invilns and stealths or guardians and their crazy dmg / tankyness/ infinite blocks. Warriors Rangers and eles all have a self invuln, higher health pool and better defense. This video you posted too isn’t proving anything.. I just watched a sub par thief fight a really bad Mesmer and come out on top almost dead.. How was he op? One wrong move and that Mesmer would have had him. So your telling me because a thief won a duel (God forbid) it makes them op? Wow.. Let me show you some really overpowered chronomanser gameplay that will make you cringe.. Thief’s should be able to win 1v1. They are not pets they are a class.. I am happy anet is finally seeming to care for them.
Actually permanent evasion – because you get Endurance from Staff skills + Vigor.
Even if you get a random hit, it’s insufficient.
Even if it gets dangerous they can disengage instantly.
Stealth is not needed here at all.
Perhaps they’re not as useful in PvP – tho could make them bunker wise dodge rolling on point.
But Daredevils are quite everywhere in WvW.
And the reason is simple – you hit them once per 5 attacks.
Pretty much equal to standing in smoke field and getting blind applied on you all the time.
I don’t ask to nerf Thief.
I ask to rework this class.
Suspended for telling Like it is.
Anet gave birth to Gw2 – Anet killed Gw2.
Murican law 2015.
