Perplexity Runes in PvP, PLEASE NO

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Posted by: Sars.8792

Sars.8792

Runes of the Traveler are probably better now, before the nerfs to Perplexity.

With the nerfs, it’s not even close. Perplexity runes are basically five stacks of confusion for 12 seconds every 15 seconds, assuming the interrupt lands. Who cares?

That’s not even counting the fact other rune sets are getting huge buffs. Runes of the Balthazar, for example, will probably be much better than Perplexity for all viable condition builds.

EDIT: Reading over this thread, it’s pretty obvious 90 percent of responses are coming from people who have no idea Runes of Perplexity are already being nerfed.

I guess it depends on the class you are playing. Currently in wvw these runes are completely broken, and the “nerf” is very minor. (only 12 seconds ….)

I liked the idea someone had of removing the 4 pc proc all together and nerfing the 6 pc but I am not getting hopes up.

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Posted by: Yunalesca.9850

Yunalesca.9850

Seems to me like everybody just heard “Perplexity” and “Confusion” and now you’re running around like crazy chicken and start to complain.

New Version: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) 10% Confusion Duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict 3 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds. 25s ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +20% confusion duration; when you interrupt a foe, cause 5 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds. 15s ICD.

Did anyone of you noticed the change in the 4th tier bonus?
Before it was a 20% chance to inflict confusion on your target when YOU HIT it. Now it’s a 25% chance to inflict confusion when YOU ARE HIT and that only every 25sec. That’s a big difference believe it or not. Since nobody wants to get hit by anyone and obviously not by a warrior, thief or a burst-ele, it will rarely trigger.
Classes and builds with range weapons will mostly suffer from it, since you can’t kite them except with running out of range or hide behind an object, but there again, they can always stop shooting.

And please don’t remove the “on interrupt” of the 6th tier bonus since you’ll give all interrupt mesmers a bit more diversity with the new GM traits and make interrupt builds more viable.

Confusion was nerfed before (down to 50% damage in pvp) and now you all start complaining again? Watch your condition and boon bar if you have problems with confusion and learn how to counter it. Confusion is no problem if you know how to deal with it (e.g. stop spamming skills like crazy…).

Thanks for listening.
A fellow confusion and interrupt loving mesmer

Yuna Brija – Bunker Chronomancer [TDG]

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Posted by: Realist.5812

Realist.5812

^ You have absolutely no idea what’s going on, and what’s going to happen. I almost envy your ignorance, except Anet is going to break spvp further.

GG.

This is literally on par with dumbfire, if not worse because it will be more widespread.

Random huge damaging extra condition on top of the spam that takes 0 effort to apply, with gigantic reward. Sounds just like dumbfire to me. OH WAIT, right, we’ve all already played with this in wvw roaming, we know its broken, Anet needs to start playing their own game, and listening.

ALL IS VAIN.
PvP modes are the “endgame” in every MMO.
Stop failing at PvE, start fixing PvP/WvW. Thank you.

(edited by Realist.5812)

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Posted by: Flumek.9043

Flumek.9043

REDUCE THE STACKSSSSSSSSSS

… and maybe hopefuly the passive proc bonus -.-

… or rather move the #4 bonus to #6 , (its already too stronk but who cares) , and leave interupts alone, theyre annoying and powerful by themselves, no need for halting strikes and similiar stuff

PvP guild [YUM] -apply- (EU) http://muffinspvp.shivtr.com/

(edited by Flumek.9043)

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Posted by: Phoebe Ascension.8437

Phoebe Ascension.8437

Why are you guys scared of confusion? Honestly? Heartseeker? 3k damage easely. Mightly blow? 2000-3500 damage and a nasty stun+ blast finisher.

Confusion? maybe 300 damage per auto attack, if lucky, and very high cond damage + more then 4 stakcs confusion 500 per tick, but then the duration will worn off so fast, it won’t even be usefull in most cases.

500 damage per auto- attack average (and that is optimistic), is dangerous? It isn’t. Have you tried playing a confusion mesmer after the nerf, without perplexity? Very very very weak. These runes are only dangerous, when engineers/warrior/mesmers pull of PERFECT combo’s. And let’s face it, most of the time an enemy pulls of a perfect combo, it’s your fault, because you allowed him to.

My take on this: the 50% confusion nerf is so big, still is, that even with using these runs, only few sets can make good use out of it. I admit that for instance torment runes though are very weak compared to this. The problem is Torment application is rarer then confusion, the stacks applied are lower (unless impale, and mesmer scepter 2, But those skills are ‘niche’ skills imo). So the ‘equal duration’ boost, and only 1x extra application of torment (with fewer stacks then the confusion), makes it underpowered imo.

And wvw, i haven’t seen an perplexity enemy in AGES. It might be powerfull, but so are a lot of other builds. Let’s first see what power damage nerf (crit damage spikes are capped lower now) will do to these builds. For instance, as I see it, Perplexity engineer needs rifle, rather then pistol for perplex build, but that would mean with update, all his power skills do less damage when they crit (that is when they are the most threatening, so that means, the threat level goes down a lot). Let’s first see that out, not?

Legendary weapons can be hidden now!
No excuse anymore for not giving ‘hide mounts’-option
No thanks to unidentified weapons.

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Posted by: Uhtameit.2413

Uhtameit.2413

Why are you guys scared of confusion? Honestly? Heartseeker? 3k damage easely. Mightly blow? 2000-3500 damage and a nasty stun+ blast finisher.

Confusion? maybe 300 damage per auto attack, if lucky, and very high cond damage + more then 4 stakcs confusion 500 per tick, but then the duration will worn off so fast, it won’t even be usefull in most cases.

500 damage per auto- attack average (and that is optimistic), is dangerous? It isn’t. Have you tried playing a confusion mesmer after the nerf, without perplexity? Very very very weak. These runes are only dangerous, when engineers/warrior/mesmers pull of PERFECT combo’s. And let’s face it, most of the time an enemy pulls of a perfect combo, it’s your fault, because you allowed him to.

My take on this: the 50% confusion nerf is so big, still is, that even with using these runs, only few sets can make good use out of it. I admit that for instance torment runes though are very weak compared to this. The problem is Torment application is rarer then confusion, the stacks applied are lower (unless impale, and mesmer scepter 2, But those skills are ‘niche’ skills imo). So the ‘equal duration’ boost, and only 1x extra application of torment (with fewer stacks then the confusion), makes it underpowered imo.

And wvw, i haven’t seen an perplexity enemy in AGES. It might be powerfull, but so are a lot of other builds. Let’s first see what power damage nerf (crit damage spikes are capped lower now) will do to these builds. For instance, as I see it, Perplexity engineer needs rifle, rather then pistol for perplex build, but that would mean with update, all his power skills do less damage when they crit (that is when they are the most threatening, so that means, the threat level goes down a lot). Let’s first see that out, not?

A glass thief can pull out heartseeker that does damage on a glass opponent under 33% hp, yes. 5 stacks of confusion with 1k condition damage (easily attainable) is already 700 damage on skill btw (since it is condition damage, it is applied regardless of armor). The confusion from Pry Bar already lasts 7s or so, the confusion from the rune would last 8s. And we are talking about tanky conditions builds which are already strong that are almost getting another build on top of it :

Condition engineers are strong and can easily have interrupts as part of their build, they apply confusions easily. Imagine magnet interrupts you, with pry bar on top of it you get 10 stacks of confusion for around 7 seconds : that’s 1400 damage per skill use for 7seconds. You may remove it immediately but when you hit him, you’ll get 3 stacks, and maybe concussion bomb. If you can’t remove it, that’s 7seconds during which you will die if you actually try to kill the opponent i.e 7 seconds during which you can do nothing. You won’t be able to remove it instantly everytime, and you will have to wait to do anything at all.

That is also true for condition mesmer, which is getting torment on shatter as a reminder, and has way more interrupts.

Condition necro puts more conditions without that much effort so when it puts 5 stacks of confusion with one fear, it will be nearly impossible to cleanse.

Thieves will have a trait for confusion on steal, that plus headshot and you have got yourself a nice piece of perma confusion.

Condi warriors can already put 4 stacks of confusion on one interrupt via trait, and they have quite a few stuns with mace/shield : that would be 9 stacks per interrupt, again, around 1300 damage per skill use, for 8seconds. How is that a hard combo?

Builds that were strong and other builds that are going to be created via the new GM traits will be enhanced by this rune as it allows easy stacking of one of the most devastating conditions of the game. If you can’t understand that, well…better go back to heartseeker.

(edited by Uhtameit.2413)

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Posted by: DiogoSilva.7089

DiogoSilva.7089

Think of professions like the engineer and the elementalist, that by design are required to activate a lot skills very fast. And they aren’t “spamming” anything. They are doing their job, and they need to do it to survive. Combo fields, blast finishers, get into a kit, get out of a kit, switch to water, cast two heal skills, switch to earth, etc.

8 seconds of 5 stacks of confusion every 15 seconds is not high, its ridiculous. Every single one of those numbers demonstrate it. There’s a reason why mesmer’s confusion traits/ skills don’t last that long, there’s a reason why mesmer’s confusion traits/ skills don’t apply that many stacks so easily, and there’s a reason why mesmer’s confusion traits/ skills are usually under higher cooldowns than that.

500 damage per skill? That can very well go up to 4k or 8k to professions that require more skill presses. All that damage just from a single effect from a single rune. Show me any other rune in this game, where 1/6th of its entire effect is this strong.

Also, most interrupts in this game are instant-cast or under really low casting times, and not all professions can have perma stability. Not only that, but professions already have trouble dealing with condition cleansing in the condition meta – if you add 5-8 stacks of confusion every 15s and every 25s on top of that, it’s clear how crazy it would be.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

I wouldn’t mind seeing the 5th bonus go from 5 stacks to 3/4 or something. But I think that is all that is needed. I mean lyysa runes are more OP and we have put up with them for long enough. At least if hambow/condi warrior or thief takes these runes then their sustain will be way way less. This means they will require smarter play and more skill.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: aelfwe.4239

aelfwe.4239

I probably shouldn’t be reading the forums at 10:45 on a Friday night….but I am.

1) Thanks for talking about this in such a constructive manner. A lot of you guys are bringing up great points with highly cogent logic. I like. I like how you’re bringing up possible issues in multiple game types as well, kudos for espousing a holistic point of view.

2) There are going to be a lot of changes, as we’ve stated before on the 15th. The meta will probably shift a lot for many areas of the game, so we’ll have to see how things shake out.

3) Please keep the talking open, rational, and with as little salt as possible – you guys are rocking. We are listening, and I’ll check this thread next week to see how the conversation goes.

Thanks for keeping it civil.

/Chapout

Constructive mode on:

If you look at rune of perplexity under a single character point of view they arent OP.

But if you look at them under a meta team fight point of view they are ridicolous OP.

Let me explain.

I’m a mesmer and i’ll benefit a lot from perplexity rune and i’ve already on my mind a couple of build made around them to test after 15th. And i’d really like to test them out…

BUT

Before being a mesmer i’m a player and what i really want is a well balanced game and not a cheesy spec.

Actually we have 4 classes over 8 who are commonly pvping condi spec (engi, war, necro, ranger).

After 15th april features patch we will reasonably have 5 classes over 8 who will pvp in condi spec (i think mesmer will join the condi meta too).

Our condi cleanse are actually barely enought to face 4 cond classes so if you add a 5th class to condi meta and you give 1 more condition (confusion from perplexity) to ALL classes, how can we maneage with them? The risk of another heavy condi meta is behind the angle.

Also i want to focus on some situation that perplexity will bring on. For example at the beginning of the tpvp match it’s probabily a team fight somewhere (mid or far or close). So if you think about a team match with a necro, a war and a mesmer with perplexity, they 1st enemy who is going to aoe over them when the match start is going to take 9 stack of confusion cause they all will have 4th bonus outside cd.

This put you on the situation to use 1 of your condi removal right after you do the 1st attack and before you get any hit. Now using a cond removal at the beginning of the fight before get hit means we have 1 less cond removal for the team fight compared to now.

This fact alone is enought to move the meta to heavy condi meta again.

And we are not speaking of the fact that mesmer, necro, war and engi got tons of interrupt that means you are goin to take 5 more stack of confusion…

Also 5 stack of confusion with 8 sec duration and 16 sec icd with 50% malice means 12 sec duration that is over 16 sec a 75% uptime.

On last friday balance update you guys have done really well, better than i expected.

PLS, don’t ruin all the good job you have done with a single set of runes!!!

If you want to add some build diversity made around on confusion over interrupt don’t rely on a single set of rune but chose the classes you want to play that build and give them some traits that allow a similar effect as perplexity in way to avoid the risk of what can happens on tpvp with a party full made around perplexity proc.

PLS.

Aelfwe Dark Asura Mesmer\Thief,
FREE PYRO

(edited by aelfwe.4239)

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Posted by: gesho.9468

gesho.9468

thread is very united in opinion, i hope devs will listen

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Posted by: saVdoom.2067

saVdoom.2067

If you want to add some build diversity made around on confusion over interrupt don’t rely on a single set of rune but chose the classes you want to play that build and give them some traits that allow a similar effect as perplexity in way to avoid the risk of what can happens on tpvp with a party full made around perplexity proc.

PLS.

This.

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Posted by: Avead.5760

Avead.5760

We have already see some other runes after the rebalance anyway..and i had to tell runes of strenght and all they saw us dont even come close to the power of this runes set even after its been nerfed..Pls its a nobrainer to not bring this over.In fact you should remove it from wvw as well

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Posted by: JinDaVikk.7291

JinDaVikk.7291

tbh avead rune of strength are my only other concern about this patch. 45 might duration + 10 boon duration from traits (normal hambow build) warriors (if battle sigil isnt nerfed) will easily obtain 25 might stacks. That combined with 2h weapons getting 2 on swap sigils ( bow can be fire or leeching? and battle, hammer intelligence and fire or air) will be very very scary. Not to mention new amulet that removes extra vitality for critical damage…

Perplexity (back to thread) isn’t as bad as the new warrior… but very close. This build idea may not be viable but the idea of it is ridiculous.

Engi running bomb kit tool kit and nades with rifle…

Can pull off once every 20 seconds a stealth pull into a 15 stack of confusion (12 seconds), 2 seconds of immob, (with geomancy and hydromancy) 6 stack of bleed (15s) and 3+seconds of chill. ( oh and btw indinciary powder proc so 5s of burn)…

Lets c… If you dont run a full cleanse…. that may kill you outright, and it is all from stealth on a 20s cd. lololol

Good luck.

Team Radioactive
Crysis, Lil Damage, Ovi, Jindavikk, Guard
Causing cancer all day.

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Posted by: ellesee.8297

ellesee.8297

say no to perplexity 2014

#1 Engi NA and world first rank 80!
#1 Frandliest person NA!
http://www.twitch.tv/Livskis

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Posted by: Raunchy.6891

Raunchy.6891

This rune should be like any other rune: an enhancement to specific build strategies (in this case, to confusion builds, or to more general condition builds with rupts). It shouldn’t be a rune that completely transforms a non-confusion build into a confusion monster.

Max 8 stacks of confusion every 25 seconds hardly makes someone a monster of confusion damage. Yes it’s strong burst but imo it’s the duration that needs to go down not the intensity.

The fact that mesmer’s sources of confusion are already under low numbers (cry of frustration only offers THREE seconds of confusion per clone under a 30 second cooldown! And other mesmer’s traits aren’t much better) should already be a testament to how strong confusion is, and to how delicate anet’s skill balancers had to be with it in the past.

This is wrong on so many levels. Confusion is supposed to be the main condition of mesmers, so because of that we actually have many ways to apply it (Cry of Frustration, all shatters if traited [5pts.], scepter #3, torch #5, clone death, and traited glamours) for which the confusion duration can be increased by more than this rune set with just 10 points into the Illusion tree. Putting a mere 5 points into that tree makes Cry of Frustration apply 6 stacks not 3, and putting 30 points puts CoF on a 20sec cd; not to mention the 3 stacks you can get from Mind Wrack every 10 seconds. Using mesmer to try and validate your argument was a terrible idea.

Man, I dare to say that this rune has stronger confusion input than a mesmer entirely built around confusion! This rune is stronger than 70 trait points worth of confusion! :P

You can say that if you want, but you’re wrong.

I might have sounded a bit melodramatic in this post, but I hope my logic and arguments were sound.

I agree it should be toned down, but in duration only. Even that only needs to be slight. The way the runes are being changed make it so that yes other classes can use them, but they definitely aren’t going to be as effective as a class that already has access to confusion. Which is a step in the right direction.

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Posted by: Belze Intilie.8436

Belze Intilie.8436

Pls NO!
<Mesmer Main
Bro Code

Bro Code(x) (Mesmer), Bro Tect (Guard)

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Posted by: Salocin.2783

Salocin.2783

The Devs replies show absolutely no willingness to reconsider releasing this travesty. They are just so happy to erase the dividing line between PvE and PvP it makes them blind.
Setting aside balance, the confusion condition itself is just NOT FUN to play against. It completely counters any counterplay. If you are out of cleanses your only option is to stop using ANY skill for its duration, which usually is not an option at all.

Proposed solutions:
-If Anet doesn’t want to split pve/pvp runes, remove Perpl from gw2 altogether. This will preserve many already underdog builds in pvp and actually opens up builds in wvw that won’t be given the death penalty for not running full cleansemonstermode.

-DRASTICALLY reduce confusion durations, so that waiting it out actually becomes a viable option besides cleansing it off. I am thinking that it shouldn’t exceed 3-4s (WITH cond duration multipliers). This way it’s still effectively a 4 seconds daze…

Thank you and goodnight!

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

I agree with whoever suggested that the effect #4 could and should be entirely removed. In addition to being completely mindless (automatic proc!), the effect #6 is so crazy, that when we take it into account and everything else the rune offers (condition damage and +30% confusion duration), it would see play nonetheless. And that is, if the #4 effect was removed!

It would be something like this (the #6 effect would still need a nerf even if #4 was entirely removed):

  1. 25 Condition Damage
  2. +5% Confusion Duration
  3. 50 Condition Damage
  4. +10% Confusion duration
  5. 100 Condition Damage
  6. +15% Confusion duration. When you interrupt a foe, cause 5 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds. 15s ICD.

(Note: 5 stacks for 5 seconds every 15 seconds is still strong).

I like this suggestion I feel with fear becoming a interrupt that every class now would have the means to make use of the 6 piece. Now if you don’t have confusion application ability at all like a necro usually doesn’t have then running a different runes set isn’t as big of a damage drop off. The line between the best condition rune and the next rune isn’t as big. Players will still use the best and we always figure out what is the best so either you boost up the other runes to match or nerf this one are the only options.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

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Posted by: Spooko.5436

Spooko.5436

I look forward to theorycrafting a build for max confusion, torment, and retaliation uptime, i want to punish a player for moving, hitting me, and using their abilities

I want to punish an enemy for playing against me,

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Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

I look forward to theorycrafting a build for max confusion, torment, and retaliation uptime, i want to punish a player for moving, hitting me, and using their abilities

I want to punish an enemy for playing against me,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJArflknpStNoxGNMrNiY6RwRhC3JFRn0hSx15dA-TIAg2CrA
Won’t be any good in high skill games naturally.

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

I can just imagine teams in TA going condi/direct damage hybrid all with perplexity applying 15-20 stacks of confusion with over 50% uptime from everyone running perplexity with cover condis of 10-15 stacks of bleeds, 10 stacks of torment, burning, and poison.

Not sure how feasible it will be, but it’s easy to theorycraft this stuff.

Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)

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Posted by: Lord Hammer Hand.4815

Lord Hammer Hand.4815

yeah please no perflexity these confusion engis in pvp are bad enough dont make them more OP that will be a reason for QQing.

Pacific Islander Legion [NoyP]
Black Gate
Ruthless Legend

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

I can just imagine teams in TA going condi/direct damage hybrid all with perplexity applying 15-20 stacks of confusion with over 50% uptime from everyone running perplexity with cover condis of 10-15 stacks of bleeds, 10 stacks of torment, burning, and poison.

Not sure how feasible it will be, but it’s easy to theorycraft this stuff.

A thought jumped into my mind. How would a team of 4 decap engi’s with perplexity and 1 roamer fair? Engi’s could hold 2 points, do a 2/2 split, apply various conditions, confusion would be applied regularly due to the amount of CC engi’s have and they are built to take hits, so the perplexity 4 would trigger a lot, plus engi’s have AoE heals and can keep each other alive. This team comp already seems strong without perplexity, might be an optimal team comp now.

Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)

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Posted by: Asomal.6453

Asomal.6453

I look forward to theorycrafting a build for max confusion, torment, and retaliation uptime, i want to punish a player for moving, hitting me, and using their abilities

I want to punish an enemy for playing against me,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJArflknpStNoxGNMrNiY6RwRhC3JFRn0hSx15dA-TIAg2CrA
Won’t be any good in high skill games naturally.

What about 30/X/X/X/30 with the new traits?

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Posted by: glaphen.5230

glaphen.5230

I look forward to theorycrafting a build for max confusion, torment, and retaliation uptime, i want to punish a player for moving, hitting me, and using their abilities

I want to punish an enemy for playing against me,

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vgAQJArflknpStNoxGNMrNiY6RwRhC3JFRn0hSx15dA-TIAg2CrA
Won’t be any good in high skill games naturally.

What about 30/X/X/X/30 with the new traits?

That would make a terrible condition build. Not like Mesmer condition build is useful for anywhere other than WvW anyways.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

tbh avead rune of strength are my only other concern about this patch. 45 might duration + 10 boon duration from traits (normal hambow build) warriors (if battle sigil isnt nerfed) will easily obtain 25 might stacks. That combined with 2h weapons getting 2 on swap sigils ( bow can be fire or leeching? and battle, hammer intelligence and fire or air) will be very very scary. Not to mention new amulet that removes extra vitality for critical damage…

Perplexity (back to thread) isn’t as bad as the new warrior… but very close. This build idea may not be viable but the idea of it is ridiculous.

Engi running bomb kit tool kit and nades with rifle…

Can pull off once every 20 seconds a stealth pull into a 15 stack of confusion (12 seconds), 2 seconds of immob, (with geomancy and hydromancy) 6 stack of bleed (15s) and 3+seconds of chill. ( oh and btw indinciary powder proc so 5s of burn)…

Lets c… If you dont run a full cleanse…. that may kill you outright, and it is all from stealth on a 20s cd. lololol

Good luck.

So what.

Yeh sure mesmers and engis in particular are going to insane with these runes. But good luck to them. At least the combo you listed takes some skill and is counterable by the fact that guys running that build will be killable.

The problem atm is bunkers who do damage. There are 150 elite level thieves and warriors atm. Literally so many random guys who play these classes are just all stars because of how easy and powerful it is. Neither can be focussed and killed basically ever which just leads to lame gameplay.

At least with more damage in the game things will improve. Lyssa runes are the ultimate sustain runes imaginable. You get a huge boost when you use them on such a short CD. Seeing these reworked into more a niche/skill based way should help to reduce the easy mode classes (thieves and warriors).

I can deal with getting trashed by top level players running perplexity runes. I can’t deal with getting rolled by idiots because they run thief/warrior. Literally how much they bring to a team is beyond what anyone else could – even for average players. Which is why the top of solo and team Q has been full of weaker players for about 6-9 months now. Anyone on thief and warrior can be a huge asset to their team. It is just so forgiving and just so powerful. That is why there are so many high level thieves and warriors.

It is so ridiculous currently that I think these runes might improve things. It can’t get worse. Nerfing lyssa should actually make the game playable again. I doubt perplexity will have such a big impact.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

(edited by Lordrosicky.5813)

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Posted by: Jedge.3619

Jedge.3619

thread is very united in opinion, i hope devs will listen

I’d enjoy them in spvp : )
I think it’s a great idea

What a Churlundalo

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Posted by: Amstel Steel.2058

Amstel Steel.2058

I’m wondering if Plague Signet stacks with Unholy Martyr in DS. Also if there will be any kind of condition transfer sigils/runes.

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Posted by: Vile.5678

Vile.5678

I’m more confused by the fact we need to tell them this is a bad idea. What the actual kitten.

Warrior – Whrawl
Thief – Radderic
Mesmer – Smash Kablooey

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Posted by: Ironcloud.3892

Ironcloud.3892

Mirroring what everyone else has been saying: these runes aren’t just buffs for confusion based builds, they’re runes that directly turn builds INTO confusion builds, hell, non-condi builds will probably be able to run the rune set effectively as well. How on earth is this balanced? Perhaps if interrupting wasn’t 90% RNG this wouldn’t be nearly as bad.

If these somehow make their way into the game despite the clear consensus… I really wouldn’t even know what to think. But then again Skyhammer and immob stacking are still in the game so I really shouldn’t be surprised.

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Posted by: Chukree.1756

Chukree.1756

Totally agree, Frae…

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Posted by: Mrbig.8019

Mrbig.8019

I wouldn’t mind seeing the 5th bonus go from 5 stacks to 3/4 or something. But I think that is all that is needed. I mean lyysa runes are more OP and we have put up with them for long enough. At least if hambow/condi warrior or thief takes these runes then their sustain will be way way less. This means they will require smarter play and more skill.

The issue is not with thieves.

The issue is with engies that will magnet pull → pry bar you for 10 stacks of confusion, + pistol 3 + concussion bomb in less than 2 secs, potentially 19 stacks of confusion.

Add this to big ole bomb, shield 4-5, flamethrower and all the kitten. even without flamethrower engi has so many interrupts it’s not even funny.

Or interrupt condi mesmers ( even rampagers Sword/pistol-Staff).

God, it’s going to be ridicolous.

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Posted by: Aberrant.6749

Aberrant.6749

I wouldn’t mind seeing the 5th bonus go from 5 stacks to 3/4 or something. But I think that is all that is needed. I mean lyysa runes are more OP and we have put up with them for long enough. At least if hambow/condi warrior or thief takes these runes then their sustain will be way way less. This means they will require smarter play and more skill.

The issue is not with thieves.

The issue is with engies that will magnet pull -> pry bar you for 10 stacks of confusion, + pistol 3 + concussion bomb in less than 2 secs, potentially 19 stacks of confusion.

Add this to big ole bomb, shield 4-5, flamethrower and all the kitten. even without flamethrower engi has so many interrupts it’s not even funny.

Or interrupt condi mesmers ( even rampagers Sword/pistol-Staff).

God, it’s going to be ridicolous.

Eng won’t be the biggest problem. L2 Dodge magnet. Srsly it’s not that hard with the obvious wavvy line animation telling you exactly what’s being done.

What is far worse is how unpredictable a necro fear can be. Oh look… he waved his hand with staff… that could only be 1 of 5 different marks which all have the same cast animation (lol asura lil handwaves) and no travel time… so to avoid the confusion I’ll just need to stop attacking for the entire staff spam rotation (not all classes have great access to stability). Yea… that’s gonna be real nice to deal with (sarcasm).

Tarnished Coast
Salvage 4 Profit + MF Guide – http://tinyurl.com/l8ff6pa

(edited by Aberrant.6749)

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

The problem with perplexity, as what happens in wvw, is that it adds a VERY EASY and VERY STRONG source of confusion to already powerful condi specs that already eclipse power specs. This confusion is a must-clear or you die, so you either lose cleanse, or cleanse confusion and other cover condis while that burning/bleeding from the untelegraphed condi-burst (mostly from other trait/sigil procs) tick away.

It comes down to this: adding another condition to condi specs makes them stronger. When that extra condi is REALLY strong, then it just gets insane!

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Posted by: Shanks.2907

Shanks.2907

I might be in the minority, but I’ve already tweaked my warrior condition build for this.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQRAsZ5cjEd06ZbHOewJagApALgxowIiX9wO1JOA-TwAAzCuI+R9j7HzPyfs/M6Y1xGkpHA

With distracting strikes, that’s 9 stacks of confusion on first interrupt. It doesn’t stop there though. There’s the three stacks when struck (25% proc) which is nothing to sneeze at. People are going to hit a bunker, it won’t take more than a few seconds to proc when it comes off of CD. And to add to the rune confusion, each interrupt on cooldown still gives 4 stacks of confusion. It will be 100% uptime unless cleansed.

Add torment, stacks of bleeding, perma poison from sigils and the sheer amount of CC… My god.

And even then I can drop burst mastery for spiked armor and be a complete troll.

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Posted by: pierwola.9602

pierwola.9602

put it(6) on full icd when the foe have stability/aegis

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Posted by: JinDaVikk.7291

JinDaVikk.7291

I wouldn’t mind seeing the 5th bonus go from 5 stacks to 3/4 or something. But I think that is all that is needed. I mean lyysa runes are more OP and we have put up with them for long enough. At least if hambow/condi warrior or thief takes these runes then their sustain will be way way less. This means they will require smarter play and more skill.

The issue is not with thieves.

The issue is with engies that will magnet pull -> pry bar you for 10 stacks of confusion, + pistol 3 + concussion bomb in less than 2 secs, potentially 19 stacks of confusion.

Add this to big ole bomb, shield 4-5, flamethrower and all the kitten. even without flamethrower engi has so many interrupts it’s not even funny.

Or interrupt condi mesmers ( even rampagers Sword/pistol-Staff).

God, it’s going to be ridicolous.

Eng won’t be the biggest problem. L2 Dodge magnet. Srsly it’s not that hard with the obvious wavvy line animation telling you exactly what’s being done.

What is far worse is how unpredictable a necro fear can be. Oh look… he waved his hand with staff… that could only be 1 of 5 different marks which all have the same cast animation (lol asura lil handwaves) and no travel time… so to avoid the confusion I’ll just need to stop attacking for the entire staff spam rotation (not all classes have great access to stability). Yea… that’s gonna be real nice to deal with (sarcasm).

Several issues with your post.
4 marks not 5 for necro.
Staff marks do limited damage compared to scepter.
Engi pull from stealth if you bothered to read has zero animation l2p.
Necros will gain confusion sure… but lose double fear duration. Still very very strong but atleast they take a small hit.

Team Radioactive
Crysis, Lil Damage, Ovi, Jindavikk, Guard
Causing cancer all day.

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Posted by: Raunchy.6891

Raunchy.6891

The issue is not with thieves.

The issue is with engies that will magnet pull -> pry bar you for 10 stacks of confusion, + pistol 3 + concussion bomb in less than 2 secs, potentially 19 stacks of confusion.

Add this to big ole bomb, shield 4-5, flamethrower and all the kitten. even without flamethrower engi has so many interrupts it’s not even funny.

Or interrupt condi mesmers ( even rampagers Sword/pistol-Staff).

God, it’s going to be ridicolous.

I agree with the part about Engineers, but please read the changes. It has a 25sec icd, so the max stacks the engi can get is 13. Don’t get me wrong, that’s a lot which can be hard to deal with, but saving your cleanse for something like that seems smart.

As far as condi mesmer goes, that’s been a joke for a long time. The only good condi spec that has come along for mesmer has been PU, and it’s not that great for decap or capturing. Power builds will still hold as better builds, with this in the mix just to fool around with.

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Posted by: Soinetwa.5193

Soinetwa.5193

The issue is not with thieves.

The issue is with engies that will magnet pull -> pry bar you for 10 stacks of confusion, + pistol 3 + concussion bomb in less than 2 secs, potentially 19 stacks of confusion.

Add this to big ole bomb, shield 4-5, flamethrower and all the kitten. even without flamethrower engi has so many interrupts it’s not even funny.

Or interrupt condi mesmers ( even rampagers Sword/pistol-Staff).

God, it’s going to be ridicolous.

I agree with the part about Engineers, but please read the changes. It has a 25sec icd, so the max stacks the engi can get is 13. Don’t get me wrong, that’s a lot which can be hard to deal with, but saving your cleanse for something like that seems smart.

As far as condi mesmer goes, that’s been a joke for a long time. The only good condi spec that has come along for mesmer has been PU, and it’s not that great for decap or capturing. Power builds will still hold as better builds, with this in the mix just to fool around with.

saving comdi remove for that peek..
okay what if the enineer just builds up a bit confusion and waits till u cleanse tp then apply the rest?
or for other clases hat doesnot have a full condi cleanse
confusion bleeding burning chill poison might use sticky bomb as well…
if the engineer just variates hi gameplay the slightest u cant do much against him

also that 25second icd is still lower than most full condi cleanses
so if the fight lasts for 30secs .. its probly over then..

if they dont add quite effective anti condi runes / sigils this is most likely going to chynge quite a lot…

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

I wouldn’t mind seeing the 5th bonus go from 5 stacks to 3/4 or something. But I think that is all that is needed. I mean lyysa runes are more OP and we have put up with them for long enough. At least if hambow/condi warrior or thief takes these runes then their sustain will be way way less. This means they will require smarter play and more skill.

The issue is not with thieves.

The issue is with engies that will magnet pull -> pry bar you for 10 stacks of confusion, + pistol 3 + concussion bomb in less than 2 secs, potentially 19 stacks of confusion.

Add this to big ole bomb, shield 4-5, flamethrower and all the kitten. even without flamethrower engi has so many interrupts it’s not even funny.

Or interrupt condi mesmers ( even rampagers Sword/pistol-Staff).

God, it’s going to be ridicolous.

So what. They still die. It can’t possibly be worse than the current do everything thieves and warriors.

Besides, the runes have been nerfed significantly as Roy posted in this thread. I think those of you QQing probably lack the experience of how they work in WvW. They aren’t so bad. They are strong and they own newbies. I never really had a problem with them and I definatly don’t think they will be a problem after the nerf.

Also it is relevant to the discussion that it will take skill because the builds people are predicting to benefit from this are generally killable. Any necro/engi/mesmer will be gankable and so will have to play smartly to survive. And the better players can distinguish themselves. This contrasts to warriors and thieves currently where literally there are 200 top warriors and thieves because it is so forgiving. You can charge into 3 people as a warrior/thief and still get back to a safe area during a team fight. It is totally ridiculous. I have seen horrible players become able to play in the top 50 of solo and team q purely because they are a thief/warrior. That is terrible for the game.

And people saying this will be OP on condition warrior lack understanding of the game. They already have confusion. This rune set is stronger when it increases the condition spread.

This thread is just a knee jerk reaction to a change. Who cares if its too strong anyway. There is no competitive scene in this game at all. So we might as well take changes which freshen things up. As a casual/semi-competitive player these runes are going to be fun because they shake things up.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Trigr.6481

Trigr.6481

I shall save my opinion until I see all the rune sets, and sigil changes, and bug fixes. Making assumptions based off of what little was given to you is pretty illogical, It’s too early to tell.

Countless

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

I shall save my opinion until I see all the rune sets, and sigil changes, and bug fixes. Making assumptions based off of what little was given to you is pretty illogical, It’s too early to tell.

Countless

Translation: “I can’t wait to abuse the heck out of these!”

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

You know it’s bad when only the resident forum trolls get behind a dev decision.


Phaatonn, London UK

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Posted by: Trigr.6481

Trigr.6481

I shall save my opinion until I see all the rune sets, and sigil changes, and bug fixes. Making assumptions based off of what little was given to you is pretty illogical, It’s too early to tell.

Countless

Translation: “I can’t wait to abuse the heck out of these!”

LOL, hey It could be terrible. Just saying

Countless

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Posted by: MrForz.1953

MrForz.1953

Confusion. Too strong of a condition to be up for abuse.

Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Thief – Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

You know it’s bad when only the resident forum trolls get behind a dev decision.

Presumably aimed at me. If so you have an interesting definition of troll. I think you need to get out more if you think I am a troll. Different opinions to either anet and/or other posters does not equal troll. That is how the real world works.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: JinDaVikk.7291

JinDaVikk.7291

The issue is not with thieves.

The issue is with engies that will magnet pull -> pry bar you for 10 stacks of confusion, + pistol 3 + concussion bomb in less than 2 secs, potentially 19 stacks of confusion.

Add this to big ole bomb, shield 4-5, flamethrower and all the kitten. even without flamethrower engi has so many interrupts it’s not even funny.

Or interrupt condi mesmers ( even rampagers Sword/pistol-Staff).

God, it’s going to be ridicolous.

I agree with the part about Engineers, but please read the changes. It has a 25sec icd, so the max stacks the engi can get is 13. Don’t get me wrong, that’s a lot which can be hard to deal with, but saving your cleanse for something like that seems smart.

As far as condi mesmer goes, that’s been a joke for a long time. The only good condi spec that has come along for mesmer has been PU, and it’s not that great for decap or capturing. Power builds will still hold as better builds, with this in the mix just to fool around with.

Wish people would actually learn a class before posting about it.
Without the rune set engis can obtain 14 confusion stacks.
With the new rune set that can hit 22.
pry bar=5 concusion bomb =5 static shot is 2-4
4th bonus 3 6th bonus 5.

And they are all around 10-12s duration. LOL deal with that? I already showed a very possible 0 animation massive condi bomb. Post patch due to confusion hurting ( at 15 stacks 10s duration 1k condi damage hits 2k per proc…. So cleanse or do nothing for 10 seconds as 2k per hit will kill you long before duration is up.)

Ps 1k condition damage is low. Might stacking makes it hurt a lot more.

Lol people don’t post if you dont know.

Team Radioactive
Crysis, Lil Damage, Ovi, Jindavikk, Guard
Causing cancer all day.

(edited by JinDaVikk.7291)

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

You know it’s bad when only the resident forum trolls get behind a dev decision.

Presumably aimed at me. If so you have an interesting definition of troll. I think you need to get out more if you think I am a troll. Different opinions to either anet and/or other posters does not equal troll. That is how the real world works.

Man you kitten and moan every balance at the slightest hint of something being OP, insist that the devs are screwing up in spades etc..

Then when something is implemented that does actually look to introduce an abusive mechanic, you argue against the whole playerbase and side with the devs.

Calling you a troll is the easiest way to dismiss your actions, where the accusation of any other ulterior motives could get me banned.

I’m not interested in singling out any individuals, or making any “I told you so” posts further down the line. I just want this game to be the best it can be.


Phaatonn, London UK

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Posted by: Brew Pinch.5731

Brew Pinch.5731

they can always stop shooting.

> Stop shooting

Love how people say this in seriousness as if it isn’t an issue.

“Yeah bro, just stop using any abilities and run away for 15 seconds man, you’ll be OK for sure, EZmode.”

Ridiculous.

It’s perplexing that months of video and legitimate complaints on the WvW forums have amounted to this.

I’m gonna be trolling so hard with these runes, if they are intent on kittening sPvP in the kitten rather than just releasing new modes to revitalize it, may as well go down laughing. What a shambles.

(edited by Brew Pinch.5731)

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Posted by: Bombsaway.7198

Bombsaway.7198

All runes are being changed.

We are not sure how each rune set that is not perplexity will be changed.
From early indications (a few rune sets which were shown in Twitch channel) these changes make them similar in power to perplexity runes which got nerfed (thinking of the might rune set they showed)

Therefore, I would just wait before over-reacting. I’m betting a bag of popcorn that perplexity runes will not be the rune set most complained about.