Guild Wars 2

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I wanted to come in here and clear a few things up. We wanted to add this runeset because it will open up a lot of builds increasing build diversity. Keep in mind we will be adding more options over time to PvP, which currently are not available. We know perplexity is a touchy subject but it has been substantially nerfed. I’ll run through the changes with you guys so you can better understand what is different.

Currently Live: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +28 Condition Damage
(2) 15% Confusion Duration
(3) +55 Condition Damage
(4) 20% chance to cause 3 stacks of confusions for 5s on hit. 15 ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +15% Confusion duration; Causes 5 stacks of confusion for 10 seconds on interrupt. 8s ICD

New Version: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) 10% Confusion Duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4)) 25% chance when struck to inflict 3 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds. 25s ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +20% confusion duration; when you interrupt a foe, cause 5 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds. 15s ICD.

Now here are the changes bonus by bonus
(1) -3 Condition Damage
(2) -5% Confusion Duration
(3) -5 Condition Damage
(4) +5% trigger chance, +10s ICD, changed the trigger from on hit to when you are struck
(5) no change
(6) +5% Confusion Duration, -2s confusion duration, +7s ICD

Granted a few of these changes were done for consistency to align with the entire rune balance pass such as pushing larger boosts towards the later bonuses, but the 4-piece and the 6-piece bonuses are the main areas to look at.

The 4-piece bonus which is changing from an offensive on hit trigger to a when struck trigger will make it much less offensive and controllable in many situations, especially larger team fights. This means it will be harder to ‘spike’ all of the confusion on one target. The ICD of the 4-piece also had 10 seconds added to it which is about a 66% increase in ICD.

The 6-piece bonus is going to have it’s confusion duration decreased by 20%. It also had around a 90% increase in ICD for the trigger as well.

While we do think this runeset is still good, we feel it is in a much better spot after a lot of internal playtesting and when comparing what other sets will now offer.There is a lot that is changing in this build and a lot of different pieces that intertwine together. I want to reiterate that every single runeset in the game has been changed and brought more in line with each other.

Bombsaway.7198:

All runes are being changed.

We are not sure how each rune set that is not perplexity will be changed.
From early indications (a few rune sets which were shown in Twitch channel) these changes make them similar in power to perplexity runes which got nerfed (thinking of the might rune set they showed)

Therefore, I would just wait before over-reacting. I’m betting a bag of popcorn that perplexity runes will not be the rune set most complained about.

All runes are being changed, but I wouldn’t say they are being “re-balanced”. I just don’t want you to be under this impression. Their stats were more “adjusted for consistency”. There are still going to be 2-3 sets that’ll probably end up unanimously more powerful than most.

Powerr.3649:

Bombsaway.7198:

All runes are being changed.

We are not sure how each rune set that is not perplexity will be changed.
From early indications (a few rune sets which were shown in Twitch channel) these changes make them similar in power to perplexity runes which got nerfed (thinking of the might rune set they showed)

Therefore, I would just wait before over-reacting. I’m betting a bag of popcorn that perplexity runes will not be the rune set most complained about.

All runes are being changed, but I wouldn’t say they are being “re-balanced”. I just don’t want you to be under this impression. Their stats were more “adjusted for consistency”. There are still going to be 2-3 sets that’ll probably end up unanimously more powerful than most.

Now the juicy details can come out! What else do you have for us?

There is a reason that Perplexity wasn’t allowed in sPvP…and it wasn’t because it was OP by the small amount of nerfs proposed in this next patch.

If that were the case, then Lyssa would have never been allowed in sPvP either.

It’s a baffling decision by Anet…

They decide to take something that is clearly broken and previously wasn’t even allowed in serious PvP…yet they spread the broken aspect to other areas of the game.

I’m going to go on record and say the game is far better without Perplexity period..then the proposed “solution”.

Time will tell who is right…but I guarantee it will have to be “fixed” again…anybody with any sense can see that.

You know what further proves the folly in their logic?

They take a Grandmaster trait like Dhuumfire and nerf it because it’s too passive (arguable deserved)…yet…they add Perplexity to sPvP where EVERYBODY can have an even more OP virtually passive skill (what half decent player can’t interrupt even by accident?).

Necros now have to invest 30 traits points to get Dhuumfire. On top of that, they will now have to have life force…switch into death shroud…then hit their target with a much slower cast time/projectile skill just to get the 30 point trait to do a couple seconds of extra damage.

Yet Perplexity is fine…lol

Pyriall.5027:

Now the juicy details can come out! What else do you have for us?

A time, a date, a place, a duel!

It’s on!

Bring it Pyrial

Powerr.3649:

Pyriall.5027:

Now the juicy details can come out! What else do you have for us?

A time, a date, a place, a duel!

It’s on!

Bring it Pyrial

OH…it’s already brought!!!

Raunchy.6891:

cheese.4739:

LordKael.7260:

Bunker guards are going to have so much fun trying to cleanse party conditions…

Nah, they’ll just run Plex themselves.

I would probably leave the game if I ever saw a guardian run perplexity runes. They are pretty useless with them.

It was mostly a joke, but I’m kinda wondering if the new GMs for guards could allow condi builds with, say, plex runes and sigils of doom/earth. High burning damage, retal scaled with the condi damage, couple of rupts (shield/sanctuary, maybe?).
Could be utterly useless, like.

PLEASE! do not put these runes in spvp! i hate them enough in wvw. I know they are getting nerfed but id rather just see them taken out of the game

Best news I heard all day

Based on the critical view and good arguments provided? I really doubt that, probably just to not annoy all the QQers.

Edit: Still April the first

Hooray!! Its great if you try to find a point where they are balanced in wvw first before adding them to pvp!! This really would have ruined my desire to pvp despite all the great things being added.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

April Fools?

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

Thanks for changing your mind, this rune would have destroyed spvp.

yay!! Thanks for the great news!

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

Thank you for listening to us and being so open-minded about this subject.

I do want to see a rebalanced version of perplexity in pvp at some point in the future, but definitely at a power-level far bellow to the current or to the announced iterations.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

Thank you guys for listening to us all!

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

Thanks Mr. Sharp, you definitely made the right decision.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Ya, sorry to post it on April’s fools.

This is 4 realz.

Now what’s for realz!? The rune coming to PvP or not!?!? AHHHHH!!!11!

Thanks for listening and keeping an open mind

Still hope you’d have given use at least some days to test it our ourselves prior listening to all those qqers

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

what…. noo My necro would have been so OP. keep them in.
Please tell me this is a april fools post.

Thanks for taking on board the feedback, big thumbs up for anet.

Teutos.8620:

Still hope you’d have given use at least some days to test it our ourselves prior listening to all those qqers

Since when do they give us a few days of testing then remove stuff that needs to be removed? xD besides, the QQ was perfectly justified and supported by many arguments.

Thanks guys glad you listened to the overwhelming evidence of a broken rune set..

+1

Wow! This leaves me sorta speechless atm. Thank you! Definitely looking forward to the patch.

Could you not at least let them hit live first? I mean give people some time to actually play with them before just flat out denying the runes…

Durzlla.6295:

Could you not at least let them hit live first? I mean give people some time to actually play with them before just flat out denying the runes…

No. If you give PvP AIDS, that kitten is permanent.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

Yay, thank you!

Uhtameit.2413:

Teutos.8620:

Still hope you’d have given use at least some days to test it our ourselves prior listening to all those qqers

Since when do they give us a few days of testing then remove stuff that needs to be removed? xD besides, the QQ was perfectly justified and supported by many arguments.

Even tho, I think it would have been the better solution. First letting us test out the runes with their planned values. If too strong, reduce the confusion stacks. If they continue to be to strong, change them to something completely different not only in spvp, but also in the rest of the game.
Yes, I also have my doubts, that it would be fun to play against, but without testing it out properly, how much worth is my reasoning compared to someone who has actually minded testing it for hours after hours?

Teutos.8620:

Uhtameit.2413:

Teutos.8620:

Still hope you’d have given use at least some days to test it our ourselves prior listening to all those qqers

Since when do they give us a few days of testing then remove stuff that needs to be removed? xD besides, the QQ was perfectly justified and supported by many arguments.

Even tho, I think it would have been the better solution. First letting us test out the runes with their planned values. If too strong, reduce the confusion stacks. If they continue to be to strong, change them to something completely different not only in spvp, but also in the rest of the game.
Yes, I also have my doubts, that it would be fun to play against, but without testing it out properly, how much worth is my reasoning compared to someone who has actually minded testing it for hours after hours?

Yeah I agree we need to suffer another couple months.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

why do you listen this time but not we said dont put in diamond skin?

gg Anet you did something 100% right for once

These things could have been added just for April 1st, and would have been an excellent way to livetest them.
You missed an opportunity!

JonathanSharp.7094:

Ya, sorry to post it on April’s fools.

This is 4 realz.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

I’m glad this isn’t a joke. Great job Mr.Sharp!

Mission accomplished guys.

Cheers John

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

THANK YOU for listening to the community, and taking quick action.
Again, thank you <3

Maybe the intention is that all rune sets are supposed to be (potentially, and when used in the right situation) as strong as perplexity runes are in small scale PvP.

In that case sweeping this under the rug (which seems to be what the current plan is) doesn’t really fix the problem, which is that the older rune sets just aren’t as powerful as they should be. I know the runes are currently being repurposed, which is great, but this could just be the first step.

Once each rune’s “purpose” is figured out and introduced into the game, how about another couple of passes to tune them each up and down, so that perplexity can become an option for the people who want it, without forcing everyone to go perplexity just to compete? I know resources and time are limited, but surely with some statistics and player feedback, the rune sets can be tweaked so that more of them than not are as useful as perplexity in the right build/playstyle.

I just hate to see a viable playstyle be removed because players don’t wanna deal with it. That’s sloppy on everyone’s parts.

I think this is a good opportunity to discuss why these would be a bad decision for SPvP. There are many reasons, and I think looking at them will hopefully give ANet a path forward as to how to tweak them so they can be usable and possibly also tweak other runes to be useful in SPvP.

• It further enables already very powerful builds, hurting build diversity

By helping out the likes of CC-heavy builds like Hammer Warrior, Decap Engi, and Fear pressure Necromancer, this runeset further limits diverse teambuilding by making those already overbearing builds even better.

• The runeset itself is too powerful in its current form

This is a given. You ever see an engineer or mesmer or warrior or thief run these things in WvW? Even with -40% condition duration food they flatline a huge number of roaming builds, and limit build diversity in that game form. Using that as a baseline, it can be easily seen how they would be overpowering in SPvP. I think a big reason for this is too many stacks of confusion and two different ways to apply it. I think something like the following would be much more reasonable:

+28 Condition Damage
+10% Confusion Duration
+55 Condition Damage
+20% Confusion Duration
+100 Condition Damage
Inflicts 8 seconds of Confusion (3 stacks) on interrupt. 16 second ICD.

• It perpetuates a meta that is already overwhelmed with condition spam

Rabid Engineers, Rabid Necromancers, condition Warriors, PU Mesmers, and so forth dominate in many ways right now. Power-based damage is much weaker at both breaking bunkers and killing normal players, and perpetuating that further with a runeset that gives additional Confusion access to so many already powerful condition classes is too much. It’s not moving the meta towards a more diverse play/counterplay environment. The kind of damage we want to be encouraging is direct damage right now to create a solid diversity.

There are probably more things we could consider, but I think this is a good place to start.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

This is awesome news, I’m so happy that the dev’s listened to the community on this one it only took 360+ replies and 11k views to make you see sense!

Really looking forward to April 15th now and i’m sure a lot of others will be too

Thanks to everyone who has helped me make this thread a success, if we continue to make posts like this as a community without pointless trolling or insane sarcasm the developers may actually listen to us more often

Frae

Shutdown.

Ace !

VICTORY !

Powerr.3649:

Bombsaway.7198:

All runes are being changed.

We are not sure how each rune set that is not perplexity will be changed.
From early indications (a few rune sets which were shown in Twitch channel) these changes make them similar in power to perplexity runes which got nerfed (thinking of the might rune set they showed)

Therefore, I would just wait before over-reacting. I’m betting a bag of popcorn that perplexity runes will not be the rune set most complained about.

All runes are being changed, but I wouldn’t say they are being “re-balanced”. I just don’t want you to be under this impression. Their stats were more “adjusted for consistency”. There are still going to be 2-3 sets that’ll probably end up unanimously more powerful than most.

By any chance you want to share that super awesome elementalist build, but with me only.

Jomo kenyatta.7351:

JonathanSharp.7094:

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give you guys a quick update. Based on your feedback, we’ve decided not to add Runes of Perplexity to PvP in the 4/15 Feature Pack. We’ll be monitoring the balance of runes closely, making more tweaks if necessary, and revisiting the possibility of adding Runes of Perplexity to PvP at a later point.

Thanks again for comporting yourselves in such a cooperative and constructive manner – you guys had some great points and counterpoints regarding this issue.

why do you listen this time but not we said dont put in diamond skin?

yeah, i mean, look at all those op elementalists running around wrecking eight necromancers at a tim- …wait.

more seriously, it is very very easy to get an elementalist below 90% HP. I’ve run Diamond Skin before in PvP and it literally takes one or two hits to drop me below the threshold, even against (competent) condition users. Eles also give up a lot of damage to go defensive and subsequently pose a lesser threat offensively. If you are getting wrecked that badly by DS eles, then either a) your build is fully dependent upon conditions and thus should expect some sort of tradeoff as a result, or b) you need to take a long hard look at your own skills.

Brando.1374:

what…. noo My necro would have been so OP. keep them in.
Please tell me this is a april fools post.

because unbalance is good when it benefits you

Rising Dusk.2408:

I think this is a good opportunity to discuss why these would be a bad decision for SPvP. There are many reasons, and I think looking at them will hopefully give ANet a path forward as to how to tweak them so they can be usable and possibly also tweak other runes to be useful in SPvP.

• It further enables already very powerful builds, hurting build diversity

• The runeset itself is too powerful in its current form

It’s not moving the meta towards a more diverse play/counterplay environment. The kind of damage we want to be encouraging is direct damage right now to create a solid diversity.

There are probably more things we could consider, but I think this is a good place to start.

Your first 2 points are pretty much the same thing. Perplexity comes down to one problem it is the best dps rune set for conditions if you have interrupts. It doesn’t take long for the community to figure out what is the best to run they need to blur the lines a little bit more.

If they remove the 4 piece and say remove the 6 and it is just a confusion duration rune nobody will take it because it wont provide more condition dps then current undead, scavenging, or noble runes.

It has to have 1 of the procs at the minimum or 2 maybe at a reduced rate. I would prefer they just remove the 4 keep the 6 as is maybe up the icd to 20 secs.

I wish they would actually tool all runes to make them unique after a few months I feel like we will end up with a few rune sets for certain builds again.

Take power runes like strength instead of getting 4 stacks of might when you get hit change it to a perplex like 4 piece bonus. This gives the rune more purpose and the user a little bit more control they know they can’t get increased dps unless they are attacking.

I would prefer if all 4 piece bonuses that are “when struck” became "when you strike "except for the more defensive rune sets like earth, water, or monk. where it makes sense having it proc “when struck” Speed runes could go either way imo. I could be missing something but the only direct damage rune that is offensive minded that I could see being a issue would be rune of Air’s proc if it was changed to when you strike someone.

Some are oddball runes like infiltraition and could stay as is but it would be much better if they changed some of these when struck to when you are striking if the rune is a offensive rune.

When struck on a offensive rune just makes you question if getting struck is worth that proc it basically has to be good enough for you to be mentally ok with taking damage to get it. Then the 6 piece factors in and if it is good enough you might just take it anyway if the 4 is bad.

JonathanSharp.7094:

Ya, sorry to post it on April’s fools.

This is 4 realz.

Praise be!

What The kitten? So instead of balancing the runes properly your just going to not bring them to sPvp all together? This is just a temporary band-aid and the runes will still be imbalanced in all other gamemodes.

It’s funny that on readyup you guys said you tested the new perp runes thoroughly in house and the new runes were working fine. But because of some QQ you won’t even trust your own testing and see how they go on live first? Most of this QQ was based on the pre nerf runes. This just goes to show how much faith you have in your own testing.

Thank you, great news that they’re being pulled!

Good decision, GG

Ugh I am disappointed. We should have at least tried them out for a couple weeks before passing such harsh judgement. Finally getting to use perplexity runes was one of the biggest highlights for me in this patch :/ If they were overpowered on release I can understand tuning them but cutting them out completely seems extreme and unnecessary. Oh well. I am hoping that they will turn up eventually in one form or another.