Guild Wars 2

All of us have different definition of what OP means. Some say the guardian’s ability to hold a point is OP. Others say the Ele’s ability to survive AND deal out damage is OP. Many are of the opinion that thieves shouldn’t be able to stealth so often etc.

One perspective that I feel is useful should be this: No single player should ever be able to survive/beat/run away against two enemies of any classes of comparable skill. For example, I think it’s perfectly acceptable for a guardian to “hold out” a bit longer against two players but eventually they should fall – trade off between damage and defense.

But it’s not ok for two players to take forever fighting a single thief who repeatedly stealths (thereby tying up two resources for the price of one) and has the ability to just run away at the end. It’s not ok for a bunker ele to require two players to take them down and dish out heavy damage/knockbacks etc. at the same time.

Bottom line – given comparable skill levels, two players facing a single player should never have any trouble. For me, this is one of the building blocks of balance. If there is a build that allows a single player to take on two, that build is by definition OP.

Thoughts?

Well you make your own argument invalid with your sentences:
- it’s perfectly acceptable for a guardian to “hold out” a bit longer against two players but eventually they should fall

- It’s not ok for a bunker ele to require two players to take them down and dish out heavy damage/knockbacks etc. at the same time.

A guard as you say will definetly drop against 2 dmg dealer. It’s just a matter how long they need.
An ele will drop too against 2 dmg dealer. You allrdy said this.

For the thief: Just wait till he has no stealth. Done. I don’t get the point that you need to follow a thief with 2 ppl? As you see you take 2 bunkers in your list, what’s the point of a thief to burst then but can’t kill anyway? If you have 2 ppl against a thief, how is he able to cap? Never ever sir.

So what you say is that these classes don’t die in a 1v1 but will die in a 2v1. Where’s the point here then?

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

A guard as you say will definetly drop against 2 dmg dealer. It’s just a matter how long they need.
An ele will drop too against 2 dmg dealer. You allrdy said this.

For the thief: Just wait till he has no stealth. Done. I don’t get the point that you need to follow a thief with 2 ppl? As you see you take 2 bunkers in your list, what’s the point of a thief to burst then but can’t kill anyway? If you have 2 ppl against a thief, how is he able to cap? Never ever sir.

If you notice, I gave the example of the guardian as a class that is not OP. They certainly go down in a 2 vs 1 at the cost of having almost no damage.

The Ele bunker on the other hand has defense/healing and dishes out heavy damage against two players of comparable skill level. It’s a dangerous struggle. Hence the my definition kicks in.

As for waiting for the thief to come out of stealth…duh! It’s not enough if they can quickly stealth again and come back with a lot more health and run away when they’re starting to lose the fight. That gives two players too much trouble against a single player.

I don’t recall saying anything about capping while in stealth. To me that’s irrelevant.

And that’s the heart of what I’m saying. Two players should never struggle against a single player.

The issue is comparable skill. That’s hard to find.

As for the classes, things are pretty well Balance except for maybe the bunker eles. Some classes can escape, some can hold points, some can cause major damage. It is fine.

To your point, two players SHOULD sometimes struggle against one player. It all depends on the specs and how they match up.

bhagwad.4281:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

A guard as you say will definetly drop against 2 dmg dealer. It’s just a matter how long they need.
An ele will drop too against 2 dmg dealer. You allrdy said this.

For the thief: Just wait till he has no stealth. Done. I don’t get the point that you need to follow a thief with 2 ppl? As you see you take 2 bunkers in your list, what’s the point of a thief to burst then but can’t kill anyway? If you have 2 ppl against a thief, how is he able to cap? Never ever sir.

If you notice, I gave the example of the guardian as a class that is not OP. They certainly go down in a 2 vs 1 at the cost of having almost no damage.

The Ele bunker on the other hand has defense/healing and dishes out heavy damage against two players of comparable skill level. It’s a dangerous struggle. Hence the my definition kicks in.

As for waiting for the thief to come out of stealth…duh! It’s not enough if they can quickly stealth again and come back with a lot more health and run away when they’re starting to lose the fight. That gives two players too much trouble against a single player.

I don’t recall saying anything about capping while in stealth. To me that’s irrelevant.

And that’s the heart of what I’m saying. Two players should never struggle against a single player.

Bunker ele dishing out heavy damage?

my thoughts:
damage: NO class should be able to kill in under a second,
average fights balanced vs balanced should be 15-30 seconds,
glass cannons should kill balanced in 5 seconds tops (with cooldowns and nothing getting dodged.
glass cannons should take heavy damage.

tanking: NO tank should be able to survive vs 2 of any spec forever,
tanks should deal pathetic damage.
2 normal should take under 60 seconds to kill a tank,
a (skilled) tank won’t be able to kill or be killed by a single (skilled) player unless glass cannon.
(who will take more damage but also deal more making the fight like a balanced vs balanced)

right now several specs of most classes violate these rules, glass cannons can kill in under a second making the whole “deal more damage but sacrifice survival” invalid because they can’t kill you if they’re dead before they can even react.
certain tank specs are still dealing heavy damage.

Liewec.2896:

my thoughts:
damage: NO class should be able to kill in under a second,
average fights balanced vs balanced should be 15-30 seconds,
glass cannons should kill balanced in 5 seconds tops (with cooldowns and nothing getting dodged.
glass cannons should take heavy damage.

tanking: NO tank should be able to survive vs 2 of any spec forever,
tanks should deal pathetic damage.
2 normal should take under 60 seconds to kill a tank,
a (skilled) tank won’t be able to kill or be killed by a single (skilled) player unless glass cannon.
(who will take more damage but also deal more making the fight like a balanced vs balanced)

right now several specs of most classes violate these rules, glass cannons can kill in under a second making the whole “deal more damage but sacrifice survival” invalid because they can’t kill you if they’re dead before they can even react.
certain tank specs are still dealing heavy damage.

What’s a tank spec that deals heavy damage?

Pyrial.2917:

What’s a tank spec that deals heavy damage?

When i’m playing free tournaments against a guild running 2 eles and guardian( and mesmer to a lesser extent) which are camping shrines , maybe sometimes im wondering why my party is dying so quick. Maybe sometimes it’s because players aren’t experienced, but is it entertaining for those players to be dying quickly in addition of not even being able to cap any shrine ?

So yes, the word " heavy damage " is an exageration, but still, i don’t believe bunkers should have " so much damage" . I will again quote Hero Battles from GW1 :
- only cap builds had exactly 0 damage( usually only about teleporting ans snaring)
- heavy damage builds( i can remember of assassin + 3 spear throwers) usually had no form of healing

Abazigal.3679:

Pyrial.2917:

What’s a tank spec that deals heavy damage?

When i’m playing free tournaments against a guild running 2 eles and guardian( and mesmer to a lesser extent) which are camping shrines , maybe sometimes im wondering why my party is dying so quick. Maybe sometimes it’s because players aren’t experienced, but is it entertaining for those players to be dying quickly in addition of not even being able to cap any shrine ?

So yes, the word " heavy damage " is an exageration, but still, i don’t believe bunkers should have " so much damage" . I will again quote Hero Battles from GW1 :
- only cap builds had exactly 0 damage( usually only about teleporting ans snaring)
- heavy damage builds( i can remember of assassin + 3 spear throwers) usually had no form of healing

I don’t know what you’re trying to say here. Are you saying that the bunker is doing “so much damage” or because the bunker is on point, his/her teammates are doing too much damage…

i`ll give you a perspective on op

this was done to me from stealth didn’t see it coming and it was over in 0.3 sec max.

now for all the ppl that come everywhere and tall ppl l2p pl i do wanna l2p tall me how do you deal with this kinda things.
are you a robot that can react in 0.2sec or do you have some magic skill that we the common ppl do not possess that make you see ppl in stealth.
what is it pl i really want to l2p.

25k dmg in 0.3sec that you cant predict avoid or react to!

gg!

Thieves have stealth, guardians heavy armor hp and heals and a hell lot of defensive abilities, mesmers have portal stealth and illusions, eles have mobility and can run from battles, that’s their special thing, if you take that from eles they will just be garbage. By the way also remove stealth from thieves, make guardians use light armor and remove portal from mesmers!

cottage.3274:

i`ll give you a perspective on op

this was done to me from stealth didn’t see it coming and it was over in 0.3 sec max.

now for all the ppl that come everywhere and tall ppl l2p pl i do wanna l2p tall me how do you deal with this kinda things.
are you a robot that can react in 0.2sec or do you have some magic skill that we the common ppl do not possess that make you see ppl in stealth.
what is it pl i really want to l2p.

25k dmg in 0.3sec that you cant predict avoid or react to!

gg!

They will tell you that you need toughness because you as an engineer got no right to play without toughness like a thief can, but be sure to use just enough toughness for them to say :" You can dodge no?!", don’t use more than that if not you’re OP as you can’t die in 0.3s anylonger

Arheundel.6451:

They will tell you that you need toughness because you as an engineer got no right to play without toughness like a thief can, but be sure to use just enough toughness for them to say :" You can dodge no?!", don’t use more than that if not you’re OP as you can’t die in 0.3s anylonger

Of course, right after saying “get some toughness,” they’ll say “bunkers are OP”—but I jest

I think balance is acceptable overall, but there are definitely some issues with the lack or a learning curve. Thieves and bunkers are especially difficult to handle right now, since it takes more skill to beat a thief (in low ranks) than to play a thief. Same goes for bunkers. I wouldn’t mind nerfing down specs that take more skill to beat than to play, but that would be a tough decision on Anet’s part. A lot of people would get upset. A lot of competitive players like those “noobstomping” builds for some reason—I’ll never understand why—and yet they’re not that good in high-rank matches.

A lot of the OP-ness would go away if a few of the ideas in this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/How-we-break-the-spvp-learning-curve/1283055 were implemented…

Theif, Guardian, Elementalist, and Mesmer are the four best classes in the game. They are all overpowered as compared to the bottom four.

i don’t want to defend thief (my class), it is very strond and it deserve some nerf.
ok everybody agree on this.

what i want to point out is the FACT that
if a stealthed thief attack an opponent he receive a REVEALED debuff that last 3 secs. a thief with that debuff cannot enter stealth again till the debuff END

stop arguing about thief perma stelahted. it is rendering issue. an anet fault. the only build that abuse of the rendering issue is the condition thief.

a d/d thief has to be stealthed to use BS, which is 1 (one) single attack from stealth, then he receives the REVEALED debuff.

i am not arguing about the bs combo.

Op imo is basically being able to do everything while sacrificing little to nothing in return. 1v1 there are several op builds, but 1v1 isnt important. In a teamfight I find mesmers and necros quite OP, and caltrop thieves are up there. Mostly because they can do everything, survive, burst, aoe, escape combat. Im just jealous tho, I play a ranger and rifle warrior, I dont get any of that. My rifle warrior in WvW is king tho.

Shukran.4851:

i don’t want to defend thief (my class), it is very strond and it deserve some nerf.
ok everybody agree on this.

what i want to point out is the FACT that
if a stealthed thief attack an opponent he receive a REVEALED debuff that last 3 secs. a thief with that debuff cannot enter stealth again till the debuff END

stop arguing about thief perma stelahted. it is rendering issue. an anet fault. the only build that abuse of the rendering issue is the condition thief.

a d/d thief has to be stealthed to use BS, which is 1 (one) single attack from stealth, then he receives the REVEALED debuff.

i am not arguing about the bs combo.

clearly you dont get it

first of you can see he kitten up the combo or just didn`t do it he opened with bs-hs-steal hasted ofc you know why.

second you can sr stealth and time your steal-c&d-bs just as your stealth ware off to not trigger revealed but this takes minimal skill so you wont see alot of thiefs do it.

third in this very game when i was aware of him he didn`t do jack kitten to me since you can predict avoid & react to this one trick pony and in fact i did.
the the problem lies when they start from stealth and headshot you under a second. and trust me if you play a engineer even if you spot him and avoid the combo you can easly be downed by a bad player anyway you need to play it flawless to win.

cottage.3274:

i`ll give you a perspective on op

this was done to me from stealth didn’t see it coming and it was over in 0.3 sec max.

now for all the ppl that come everywhere and tall ppl l2p pl i do wanna l2p tall me how do you deal with this kinda things.
are you a robot that can react in 0.2sec or do you have some magic skill that we the common ppl do not possess that make you see ppl in stealth.
what is it pl i really want to l2p.

25k dmg in 0.3sec that you cant predict avoid or react to!

gg!

See THAT is ridiculous. I don’t care what you say to defend it I played D/D thief since beta and its always been ridiculous to the point of it becoming boring and redundant. Basilisk Venom > Assassins Signet > Cloak and Dagger > Steal before CnD animation ends > Backstab > HS if needed. “Oh they only have 14k hp” give me a break. Shadowstep > Shortbow and you’re gone if you have too. You can jut CnD the downed player and stealth stomp. I used to drop shadow refuge right before I went down and I was usually able to heal back to full while invisible. HS doing almost 10k damage is just ridiculous. At 21k health he had what, 6k health left after CnD and BS? That means HS took away more than 25% of his life in one shot with a gap closer, leap finisher and an initiative cost of 3. The fact that this hasn’t been correctly fixed is absurd.

Attrition BS builds based around tactically using stealth and BS are awesome. The builds where you’re dead before you can react are stupid. And don’t try and say “you can react”. After CnD > BS even if you blow cool downs to heal he can literally just spam HS until you’re dead because you’re already so low from the opening. Anyone who denies this is lying or hasn’t played the build.

cottage.3274:

Shukran.4851:

i don’t want to defend thief (my class), it is very strond and it deserve some nerf.
ok everybody agree on this.

what i want to point out is the FACT that
if a stealthed thief attack an opponent he receive a REVEALED debuff that last 3 secs. a thief with that debuff cannot enter stealth again till the debuff END

stop arguing about thief perma stelahted. it is rendering issue. an anet fault. the only build that abuse of the rendering issue is the condition thief.

a d/d thief has to be stealthed to use BS, which is 1 (one) single attack from stealth, then he receives the REVEALED debuff.

i am not arguing about the bs combo.

clearly you dont get it

first of you can see he kitten up the combo or just didn`t do it he opened with bs-hs-steal hasted ofc you know why.

second you can sr stealth and time your steal-c&d-bs just as your stealth ware off to not trigger revealed but this takes minimal skill so you wont see alot of thiefs do it.

third in this very game when i was aware of him he didn`t do jack kitten to me since you can predict avoid & react to this one trick pony and in fact i did.
the the problem lies when they start from stealth and headshot you under a second. and trust me if you play a engineer even if you spot him and avoid the combo you can easly be downed by a bad player anyway you need to play it flawless to win.

I do not know where you’ve pulled out all these deductions I would have done.
i just wrote again some thief mechanics a lot of players still don’t understand.
and sorry, maybe my bad english, maybe the forum filter, but i understood only the last sentence of your post.
so i can answer you. i can trust you, but you can trust me good engis use shield to defend the combo or use the invulnerability breakstun. doenst mean thief is uneffective against engis, but there are a few good defences against thief. just use them in time and thieves will be an easy deal. it is a matter of timing and skill.

@hanzo: i dont deny anything. but i don’t know why the paid META is not 2 bunkers 3 thief if they are so effective. you just need 2 point to take advantage. now you have the new meta build. enjoy

I’m pretty sure that if this game is skill based, a single player should have no issue stomping two players that are sufficiently less skilled. I’m not OP just because two other guys suck.

I’m OP because of portal. /sarcasm

Ele’s. I saw paradigm win like 4 paids in a row and finally fall to a group running triple ele.

Double ele/triple ele in paid tournaments shows how strong they are.
YOu wont see three thiefs in the finals.
This is conquest, not deathmatch. A thief in stealth isnt a thief taking points.

Shukran.4851:

cottage.3274:

Shukran.4851:

i don’t want to defend thief (my class), it is very strond and it deserve some nerf.
ok everybody agree on this.

what i want to point out is the FACT that
if a stealthed thief attack an opponent he receive a REVEALED debuff that last 3 secs. a thief with that debuff cannot enter stealth again till the debuff END

stop arguing about thief perma stelahted. it is rendering issue. an anet fault. the only build that abuse of the rendering issue is the condition thief.

a d/d thief has to be stealthed to use BS, which is 1 (one) single attack from stealth, then he receives the REVEALED debuff.

i am not arguing about the bs combo.

clearly you dont get it

first of you can see he kitten up the combo or just didn`t do it he opened with bs-hs-steal hasted ofc you know why.

second you can sr stealth and time your steal-c&d-bs just as your stealth ware off to not trigger revealed but this takes minimal skill so you wont see alot of thiefs do it.

third in this very game when i was aware of him he didn`t do jack kitten to me since you can predict avoid & react to this one trick pony and in fact i did.
the the problem lies when they start from stealth and headshot you under a second. and trust me if you play a engineer even if you spot him and avoid the combo you can easly be downed by a bad player anyway you need to play it flawless to win.

I do not know where you’ve pulled out all these deductions I would have done.
i just wrote again some thief mechanics a lot of players still don’t understand.
and sorry, maybe my bad english, maybe the forum filter, but i understood only the last sentence of your post.
so i can answer you. i can trust you, but you can trust me good engis use shield to defend the combo or use the invulnerability breakstun. doenst mean thief is uneffective against engis, but there are a few good defences against thief. just use them in time and thieves will be an easy deal. it is a matter of timing and skill.

let me spell it for you as easy as i can,
the problem lies when they start from stealth and kill you under a second.

and we have way more tools then elixir s or shield 5 skill or tool kit shield block to stop the combo if we are aware the thief is there.

so again
“the problem lies when they start from stealth and headshot you under a second.”

get it now?

or do you wanna give me more tips like time my skills usage ect.

understood well i agree.
but

shadow refuge (for long stealth, because usual stealth last 3 secs) 60 secs cd +
moving +
basilisk 45 secs cd +
wait for the stealth to end +
cnd 6 ini +
steal 45secs cd +
haste 60secs cd, remove all endurance and stop regenerating till it end +
BS (to be effective you must use it behind opponent) +
Hs spam =

you are dead with no defences.

seems problem is shadow refuge. and honestly i dont like stealth stack in duration.

Stealth shouldn’t stack in duration and revealed debuff should last 5+ seconds.

Revealed debuff should last 5 seconds maximum. I’m still back and forth on 3 seconds…

i would like if stealth last 1 sec and reveal debuff last 1 sec with some kind of cd on stealth skills(bs, tactical, etc). so thief profession would be like xmen’s nightcrawler.

okok ot

Oh look, another thinly veiled Ele Nerf thread, colour me surprised. Maybe you were one of the three god awful players I occupied for ages in a match earlier. Good luck on the continued and seemingly RELENTLESS escapade to get the final and only really viable Ele spec nerfed into the ground.

style.6173:

The issue is comparable skill. That’s hard to find.

Well that’s because thieves don’t require any skill.

Loco.4561:

Oh look, another thinly veiled Ele Nerf thread, colour me surprised. Maybe you were one of the three god awful players I occupied for ages in a match earlier. Good luck on the continued and seemingly RELENTLESS escapade to get the final and only really viable Ele spec nerfed into the ground.

Basically d/d is the only set which doesn’t require the user to be in a group to be effective and seen how “effective” a zerg mentality is in this game and how poor are the effects of combo fields, it’s not unexpected to see eles players using only d/d everytime, it’s the closest thing to caster we’ve got if you enjoy PvP, once the d/d set get nerfed to the ground , simply stick to PvE 24/7 or change game

Braxxus.2904:

style.6173:

The issue is comparable skill. That’s hard to find.

Well that’s because thieves don’t require any skill.

Vulnerability to random AoE CC.
Doesn’t provide AoE’s.
You only have single target damage in which if it misses then..
You’re stuck to using short bow until Venom cools down.
Short Bow DPS isn’t even that good.
Can’t afford to be full melee whether “tank” or “DPS.”
Let alone extremely punishable the moment they reach melee range on someone.
Has a hard time downing people.

You’re telling me Thief is THAT forgiving? Please, you’re all bark and words without worth.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Vulnerability to random AoE CC.

So is everyone

Doesn’t provide AoE’s.

LOL! Every attack on shortbow is AoE. Cluster bomb is amazing burst aoe

Has a hard time downing people.

riiiiiiight… Are you incapable of targeting a player at 50% and rolling your fingers over utilitysetup+steal+cnd+1+2?

Schwahrheit.4203:

You’re telling me Thief is THAT forgiving?

Oh look, I might kinda be in trouble, maybe stealth poof poof poof away try again in a few seconds while the enemy’s defensive CD’s are used up.

But keep on t*ollin’ t*oller.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Braxxus.2904:

style.6173:

The issue is comparable skill. That’s hard to find.

Well that’s because thieves don’t require any skill.

Vulnerability to random AoE CC.
Doesn’t provide AoE’s.
You only have single target damage in which if it misses then..
You’re stuck to using short bow until Venom cools down.
Short Bow DPS isn’t even that good.
Can’t afford to be full melee whether “tank” or “DPS.”
Let alone extremely punishable the moment they reach melee range on someone.
Has a hard time downing people.

You’re telling me Thief is THAT forgiving? Please, you’re all bark and words without worth.

Maybe this video will be enough proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTSlULPN768&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7&index=20

Are you another one of those who press 3 after f1-2-2-2-2….?

Overpowered is when a certain build or class doesn’t allow ample opportunity for effective counter-play.

cottage.3274:

i`ll give you a perspective on op

this was done to me from stealth didn’t see it coming and it was over in 0.3 sec max.

now for all the ppl that come everywhere and tall ppl l2p pl i do wanna l2p tall me how do you deal with this kinda things.
are you a robot that can react in 0.2sec or do you have some magic skill that we the common ppl do not possess that make you see ppl in stealth.
what is it pl i really want to l2p.

25k dmg in 0.3sec that you cant predict avoid or react to!

gg!

this is a simple L2P as in play another game cause this one fails and u wont have to wry about posting screen shots like this one…

Pyrial.2917:

What’s a tank spec that deals heavy damage?

how about the D/D ele rolling his face over the keyboard with regen, prot, fury, might and vigor all up permanently.

Liewec.2896:

Pyrial.2917:

What’s a tank spec that deals heavy damage?

how about the D/D ele rolling his face over the keyboard with regen, prot, fury, might and vigor all up permanently.

Yeah, I’m still waiting for the heavy damage part…

Arheundel.6451:

Schwahrheit.4203:

Braxxus.2904:

style.6173:

The issue is comparable skill. That’s hard to find.

Well that’s because thieves don’t require any skill.

Vulnerability to random AoE CC.
Doesn’t provide AoE’s.
You only have single target damage in which if it misses then..
You’re stuck to using short bow until Venom cools down.
Short Bow DPS isn’t even that good.
Can’t afford to be full melee whether “tank” or “DPS.”
Let alone extremely punishable the moment they reach melee range on someone.
Has a hard time downing people.

You’re telling me Thief is THAT forgiving? Please, you’re all bark and words without worth.

Maybe this video will be enough proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTSlULPN768&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7&index=20

Are you another one of those who press 3 after f1-2-2-2-2….?

nice video. it shows how a bad thief player ca be carried by a good team. because you know, watc hing that guardian going down so fast, watching thief has just use 1 hs on him, watching his teammate who is stomping guardian which did the 99% of the job, is so “thief op” intensive.

What I see is a bad guardian. Back to the OP topic: A-net said they will take a closer look to the mechanics of ele and his buffs, for thief is nothing mentioned because he is not considered to be OP. As soon as you reach a high level in tournaments (paid 2nd, 3th round) you will understand why a thief needs no nerfs. Actually it’s from my point of view the hardest job to avoid diying. Because it’s much easier to counter a thief in an organized team / 5v5 then in a zerg where you have 5 ppl on you.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

What I see is a bad guardian. Back to the OP topic: A-net said they will take a closer look to the mechanics of ele and his buffs, for thief is nothing mentioned because he is not considered to be OP. As soon as you reach a high level in tournaments (paid 2nd, 3th round) you will understand why a thief needs no nerfs. Actually it’s from my point of view the hardest job to avoid diying. Because it’s much easier to counter a thief in an organized team / 5v5 then in a zerg where you have 5 ppl on you.

THIS
That isnt to say thiefs dont have issues. Culling needs to be fixed!

But even if we agreed that burst could use a revision because its not fun for new players (not inherently unbalanced, just not fun). Then thief must have compensation in some other way, or they would become useless in top play.

Absolutely right daydream. If you take him his burst, he will end up like the warrior. Useless class who will be played only in hotjoin.

bhagwad.4281:

All of us have different definition of what OP means. Some say the guardian’s ability to hold a point is OP. Others say the Ele’s ability to survive AND deal out damage is OP. Many are of the opinion that thieves shouldn’t be able to stealth so often etc.

One perspective that I feel is useful should be this: No single player should ever be able to survive/beat/run away against two enemies of any classes of comparable skill. For example, I think it’s perfectly acceptable for a guardian to “hold out” a bit longer against two players but eventually they should fall – trade off between damage and defense.

But it’s not ok for two players to take forever fighting a single thief who repeatedly stealths (thereby tying up two resources for the price of one) and has the ability to just run away at the end. It’s not ok for a bunker ele to require two players to take them down and dish out heavy damage/knockbacks etc. at the same time.

Bottom line – given comparable skill levels, two players facing a single player should never have any trouble. For me, this is one of the building blocks of balance. If there is a build that allows a single player to take on two, that build is by definition OP.

Thoughts?

I pretty much agree. You have touched on 2 of the most annoying points in spvp at the moment, the unkillable “perma” stealth thief and the d/d ele.

I would say though that a bunker with good condition removal should be able to counter the theif and hold a point (no use wasting 2 resources on it) and against the ele stability and condition removal is pretty useful.

With the ele its just the incredible mobility, aoe fields/damage, ability of some builds to switch from bunker to semi-burst and the ability to dip out of combat, heal up very quickly and quickly re-engage.

I’ve come up against the stacked ele teams in tourneys, and it always seems like there is 3 enemies on every point, I don’t see necro, ranger, warrior, or engi being on the same level in this respect.

A-net will take a closer look to elementalist and his buffs. I think they will reduce his abilites. So don’t worry about being farmed till 2020 against ele-teams. And I pretty like that a class is able to hold (not forever and there’s the point) against 2 players. Because without bunker the thief would be able to get points pretty easy, as killing would be easier.

Hanzo.9624:

See THAT is ridiculous. I don’t care what you say to defend it I played D/D thief since beta and its always been ridiculous to the point of it becoming boring and redundant. Basilisk Venom > Assassins Signet > Cloak and Dagger > Steal before CnD animation ends > Backstab > HS if needed.

You have to be moderately fast with this combo. The amount of time taken to do what you just posted is pretty high considering any profession with a shield/invulnerability can see u a mile away buffing and simply deny the basilisk. Or a simple stun breaker followed by heal works just fine. I`m done defending my profession fiercely since it`s starting to have a negative impact on my forum privileges. So i`m relaying you politely that it can`t be done most of the time and if u can it won`t take the staggering amount of 15k hp in 0.3 sec or w/e that poster said.

A glass thief can’t down a bunker solo…even if he’s really good, if you play bunker and a burst thief can down you solo you’ve better to l2p your spec….the only class that can down a bunker guardian solo, if played good, is necro….but a glass thief just can’t, when i go bunker with guardian i can laugh at D/D thieves all day long….and noone playing bunker at just a decent level have problems with a glass thief, you can actually end killing him despite your low dmg while laughing with full hp and maybe writing stuff like “Have you finished? I have to smoke my cig..” in say chat..

Glass thieves are dangerous in 1vs1 only if you run a glass spec too, like every other glass…or in team fights where thief’s role is to down half hp focused targets

Archaon.6245:

A glass thief can’t down a bunker solo…even if he’s really good, if you play bunker and a burst thief can down you solo you’ve better to l2p your spec….the only class that can down a bunker guardian solo, if played good, is necro….but a glass thief just can’t, when i go bunker with guardian i can laugh at D/D thieves all day long….and noone playing bunker at just a decent level have problems with a glass thief, you can actually end killing him despite your low dmg while laughing with full hp and maybe writing stuff like “Have you finished? I have to smoke my cig..” in say chat..

Glass thieves are dangerous in 1vs1 only if you run a glass spec too, like every other glass…or in team fights where thief’s role is to down half hp focused targets

if ur at 1/2 hp u will die bunker or no bunker to a glass thief in 2 hs’s

urinfamousr.7631:

Archaon.6245:

A glass thief can’t down a bunker solo…even if he’s really good, if you play bunker and a burst thief can down you solo you’ve better to l2p your spec….the only class that can down a bunker guardian solo, if played good, is necro….but a glass thief just can’t, when i go bunker with guardian i can laugh at D/D thieves all day long….and noone playing bunker at just a decent level have problems with a glass thief, you can actually end killing him despite your low dmg while laughing with full hp and maybe writing stuff like “Have you finished? I have to smoke my cig..” in say chat..

Glass thieves are dangerous in 1vs1 only if you run a glass spec too, like every other glass…or in team fights where thief’s role is to down half hp focused targets

if ur at 1/2 hp u will die bunker or no bunker to a glass thief in 2 hs’s

Shield #5, aegis, virtue of resolve, shelter, dodges and so on are there for a reason…usually it takes just a single skill to negate a thief’s burst…and if you are half hp with everything on cd and without aegis you’ll die vs every dps…and btw if you as bunker got in this situation (And you need to be at last vs 2 for a pretty long time) your team did it wrong not sending a backup to you in time…

urinfamousr.7631:

Stardrift.7360:

Hanzo.9624:

See THAT is ridiculous. I don’t care what you say to defend it I played D/D thief since beta and its always been ridiculous to the point of it becoming boring and redundant. Basilisk Venom > Assassins Signet > Cloak and Dagger > Steal before CnD animation ends > Backstab > HS if needed.

You have to be moderately fast with this combo. The amount of time taken to do what you just posted is pretty high considering any profession with a shield/invulnerability can see u a mile away buffing and simply deny the basilisk. Or a simple stun breaker followed by heal works just fine. I`m done defending my profession fiercely since it`s starting to have a negative impact on my forum privileges. So i`m relaying you politely that it can`t be done most of the time and if u can it won`t take the staggering amount of 15k hp in 0.3 sec or w/e that poster said.

it takes no time to do this combo since u can just macro it to 1 button wtf r utalking about

1- A dps burst can’t oneshot a full hp bunker guardian unless he just sits there watching porn on the other window…

2- Macros are bannable because actuallly a macro can be considered a bot breaking the law 1 press = 1 action

Archaon.6245:

urinfamousr.7631:

Stardrift.7360:

Hanzo.9624:

See THAT is ridiculous. I don’t care what you say to defend it I played D/D thief since beta and its always been ridiculous to the point of it becoming boring and redundant. Basilisk Venom > Assassins Signet > Cloak and Dagger > Steal before CnD animation ends > Backstab > HS if needed.

You have to be moderately fast with this combo. The amount of time taken to do what you just posted is pretty high considering any profession with a shield/invulnerability can see u a mile away buffing and simply deny the basilisk. Or a simple stun breaker followed by heal works just fine. I`m done defending my profession fiercely since it`s starting to have a negative impact on my forum privileges. So i`m relaying you politely that it can`t be done most of the time and if u can it won`t take the staggering amount of 15k hp in 0.3 sec or w/e that poster said.

it takes no time to do this combo since u can just macro it to 1 button wtf r utalking about

1- A dps burst can’t oneshot a bunker guardian unless he just sits there watching porn on the other window…

2- Macros are bannable because actuallly a macro can be considered a bot breaking the law 1 press = 1 action

yea and im sure there are no hackers or botters in gw2 no way !

urinfamousr.7631:

Archaon.6245:

urinfamousr.7631:

Stardrift.7360:

Hanzo.9624:

See THAT is ridiculous. I don’t care what you say to defend it I played D/D thief since beta and its always been ridiculous to the point of it becoming boring and redundant. Basilisk Venom > Assassins Signet > Cloak and Dagger > Steal before CnD animation ends > Backstab > HS if needed.

You have to be moderately fast with this combo. The amount of time taken to do what you just posted is pretty high considering any profession with a shield/invulnerability can see u a mile away buffing and simply deny the basilisk. Or a simple stun breaker followed by heal works just fine. I`m done defending my profession fiercely since it`s starting to have a negative impact on my forum privileges. So i`m relaying you politely that it can`t be done most of the time and if u can it won`t take the staggering amount of 15k hp in 0.3 sec or w/e that poster said.

it takes no time to do this combo since u can just macro it to 1 button wtf r utalking about

1- A dps burst can’t oneshot a bunker guardian unless he just sits there watching porn on the other window…

2- Macros are bannable because actuallly a macro can be considered a bot breaking the law 1 press = 1 action

yea and im sure there are no hackers or botters in gw2 no way !

So you’re asking for nerfs on a certain class because there are ppl playing it with bots? lolwhat? Oh that mesmer uses macros for shatter….nerf shatter!

You ppl are hilarious…

Archaon.6245:

A glass thief can’t down a bunker solo…even if he’s really good, if you play bunker and a burst thief can down you solo you’ve better to l2p your spec….the only class that can down a bunker guardian solo, if played good, is necro….but a glass thief just can’t, when i go bunker with guardian i can laugh at D/D thieves all day long….and noone playing bunker at just a decent level have problems with a glass thief, you can actually end killing him despite your low dmg while laughing with full hp and maybe writing stuff like “Have you finished? I have to smoke my cig..” in say chat..

Glass thieves are dangerous in 1vs1 only if you run a glass spec too, like every other glass…or in team fights where thief’s role is to down half hp focused targets

Never ever happens if you catch the right build with soldier runes and shouts remove a condition, as this sets are many top-guards playing. So mabye a ranger can solo you in terms of constant dmg.